HK P2000 to G19 Transition Observations

[Doc_Glock]

My Brother in Law is a CBP agent of 15 years or so and is going to transition to the G19 soon from the P2000 in .40 he has carried, trained with and qualified with his entire career.

I would describe him as a careful shooter, but not an avid one he got some award for shooting excellence at FLETC, but hasn’t shot much outside of quarterly (now semi) annual qualifications since. So, probably he has shot less then 5,000 rounds lifetime, 2K of that at FLETC. He’s not a gun guy. But he carries off duty pretty much always. He’s safe.

We took him out for familiarization with my G5G19 MOS. No optic
installed, just bold sights. I think that mimics what will be his duty pistol.

He liked it. And it liked him. He was mostly black on a B8 at 5 yards and was able to keep it on an IDPA target at 25.

Ran him through “The Test” at 10 yards: 83 down one, with the first shot thrown barely off target. Time was 14 seconds. Kinda slow but he makes his hits.

59553

The only concern I noticed was he doubled the trigger at least five times in 150 rounds. Essentially firing a second unintended shot rapidly after the first. Kind of a bump fire situation. It got better as he got used to the gun, and honestly none of those doubles was a crazy wild shot. They ended up on the target.

I had him try my LCP just to run some rounds through it and he did fine once he learned the heavier trigger.

We ended the day with him shooting a few mags through his duty P2000 before reloading and holstering that up.

I think the five yard targets are revealing:

Glock:
59551

P2000 V2 LEM
59552
I don’t think he will miss the P2000 much. But he was pretty sad when he heard it will be tossed in a shredder since it has been his companion for many years.

Despite my user name I have a great affinity for HK pistols. But whenever I hand a non enthusiast shooter a LEM, their performance at shooting drops like a rock. But he didn’t have any unintended doubles, so there is that. I personally think the swap to the Glock and 9mm will be a great for qualification scores for CBP.

[Tokarev]

We've only transitioned a handful of shooters in my area. Official transition will start in October but we went ahead and did a few courses just to work out the round counts and times for what we want to do.

Anyway, so far, nobody is sad to see the P2000 go. It is a hard gun to shoot and even harder to shoot well. The LEM trigger is simply unnecessary and not worth the effort.

Scores have gone up a little but I accredit that to the dry fire and live fire warm up before we shoot for score. I imagine once the newness wears off we'll see good shooters are still good. Bad shooters will still be bad. But there will probably be a small amount of improvement just based off the trigger alone.

There will be some grip issues and people bumping slide releases and having to learn a new mag release but, so far, everyone is eager to kiss the P2000 goodbye. I won't miss it.

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[jh9]

Does HK have any other large institutional users of the P2000? I wonder if they plan to discontinue the model.

[HCM]

CBP OFO ( Office of Field Operations- the blue suiters at the ports of entry) use a 36 round qualification course which only goes out to 15 yards and has minimal tine pressure. Your BIL likely hasn’t shot a 25 yards target since he left FLETC so he is doing better than his peers. Most LE Quals are not particularly challenging but the OFO qual is one of the least demanding federal quality courses. For reference the USBP uses a completely different and more challenging qualification course.

From a shooting and qualifications score point of view you are probably right that qualification scores will go up although I suspect that will be as much a function of going from a 40 to a 9mm rather than going from LEM to the Glock.

The good thing about the Glock is it easy to shoot, the bad thing about the Glock for minimally trained people is it is easy to shoot. I say this because they will be doing a lot more administrative handling and pointing weapons at people than shooting. I have the same concern with my own agencies transition to the P320.

As with agencies which issued TDA Guns, many longtime LEM carriers have developed (and gotten away with) bad habits like “trigger checking” in stressful situations As such expect to see a rise in negligent discharges as seen with LASD’s transition from the Beretta 92 to the S&W M&P.

Training can mitigate this but based on past experience with OFO I think it’s unlikely they will invest the necessary time in such training.

[HCM]

Does HK have any other large institutional users of the P2000? I wonder if they plan to discontinue the model.

Not in the US.

[jh9]

Not in the US.

Ouch. Hopefully they continue to import or at least support it. I just sold most of my striker guns and bought a couple LEM P2000s, holsters, mags, etc. not all that long ago.

[HCM]

Ouch. Hopefully they continue to import or at least support it. I just sold most of my striker guns and bought a couple LEM P2000s, holsters, mags, etc. not all that long ago.

I don’t think HK has supplied anything to CBP in some time but 45,000 P2000 carriers definitely help boost the limited aftermarket support for the P2000.

They do have other international customers using the P2000 and USPC.

[Tokarev]

Does HK have any other large institutional users of the P2000? I wonder if they plan to discontinue the model.I think the P2000 is already out of production. Not discontinued but rather not being produced.

The good news is that some of the internal parts are the same for the P30.

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[Tokarev]

CBP OFO ( Office of Field Operations- the blue suiters at the ports of entry) use a 36 round qualification course which only goes out to 15 yards and has minimal tine pressure. Your BIL likely hasn’t shot a 25 yards target since he left FLETC so he is doing better than his peers. Most LE Quals are not particularly challenging but the OFO qual is one of the least demanding federal quality courses.
Screwball can comment more but I believe OFO is now using a 50rd qual that includes something like eight rounds from 25.

USBP is still rocking the same Q we've had for 20 years although there are some rumblings about going to a 50rd course.

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[CCT125US]

I think the P2000 is already out of production. Not discontinued but rather not being produced.

The good news is that some of the internal parts are the same for the P30.

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P2000 v2 is my preferred carry gun. This would be unfortunate news to my wallet...

[Tokarev]

P2000 v2 is my preferred carry gun. This would be unfortunate news to my wallet...If HK dumps it nobody should be surprised. It was never overly popular and CBP hasn't bought any guns are parts in a number of years. Now that we're done with the platform there's no reason to keep making it.

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[Doc_Glock]

CBP OFO ( Office of Field Operations- the blue suiters at the ports of entry) use a 36 round qualification course which only goes out to 15 yards and has minimal tine pressure. Your BIL likely hasn’t shot a 25 yards target since he left FLETC so he is doing better than his peers. Most LE Quals are not particularly challenging but the OFO qual is one of the least demanding federal quality courses. For reference the USBP uses a completely different and more challenging qualification course.

He mentioned that their qualification was previously 15 yards max, but will be adding a 25 yard stage with this pistol transition so he was eager to get a little practice at the 25 yesterday.

[HCM]

Screwball can comment more but I believe OFO is now using a 50rd qual that includes something like eight rounds from 25.

USBP is still rocking the same Q we've had for 20 years although there are some rumblings about going to a 50rd course.

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They were shooting the FLETC PPC in the Acadeny and then the 15 yard course in the field.

A 25 yard stage is necessary. Pretty easy to have a 25 yard shot at an airport, POE or on a ship.
Was the new course adopted with the Glock?

The blame for low firearms standards in OFO lie with the leadership not considering it a priority. At the academy they are in the “no officer left behind” mode due to demand from the field for bodies. In the field the priority is staffing to mitigate wait times.

I’ve literally watched “instructors” tell students to aim at the scoring diagram in the upper right of the target to “Kentucky windage” rounds into center mass. That is not the students fault.

[jh9]

I think the P2000 is already out of production. Not discontinued but rather not being produced.

The good news is that some of the internal parts are the same for the P30.

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Yeah, outside of the frame/barrel/slide there are lots of dual use parts that show up the P30 and USPc. I think even the slide release levers are compatible with the HK45/c.

edit: I don't think it's 100% though. Should probably look into what parts are unique to the P2000 and get a couple.

[Screwball]

Screwball can comment more but I believe OFO is now using a 50rd qual that includes something like eight rounds from 25.

USBP is still rocking the same Q we've had for 20 years although there are some rumblings about going to a 50rd course.

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46 round qualification... which is duty carry. No more half loaded magazines for a revolver course of fire.

Only difference with the Glock you guys shot will be the magazine base. It is extended, and will go under your pinky. Thought I’d hate it, but I actually like it. Probably a useless feature, but it fits my hand well. Whole rig is noticeably lighter than the P2000... gun, magazines, and ammo. And the DHS serial number prefix is neat... more so if we could buy them back.

I run mine with the large backstrap/beavertail, and the Hogue Hunting grip (wraparound rubber with finger grooves; a pain to get on the gun with large backstrap). I do have bigger hands, but it feels like my 30S.

When OFO does the first qualification, they do at least two of the new course of fire... but the one that counts is a modified version of the old course (15 yard one with H&Ks). We probably messed it up due to our F/I, but that was the idea. Neither are that difficult.

The 46 courses we did, I did 44 and 46. We figured it out... make every shot before the 25, and you are above an 80. Some officers complained about the 25... I personally said get us some familiarity out to 50. Our management wants to play games with not giving us access to long guns, might be our only way of dealing with a threat out that far.

I carried a 30S, so it wasn’t a hard transition. Worst part was listening to the classroom stuff. Another group had an officer put a round in the dirt coming out of the holster. Guy carries a Glock off duty, but it is more due to the “take out the slack” mantra that was pushed with the LEM trigger. I hope officers put plenty of rounds downrange prior to people start needing to pull them out of the holster... since it is a very bad training scar. I still remember being on the line at FLETC, waiting to holster, and instructors yelling that I didn’t have the slack taken out of the trigger while waiting.

But you have some crappy shooters with OFO. A girl that shot next to me (previous TSA), cleared the Glock (when they do it now, you dry fire downrange before reholster)... both me and the RSO watched her put the gun in the holster with her finger on the trigger.

Another tip, when he does 1.5 yard shots... don’t punch out. Bent elbow shoot. Blow a hole in the center of the target, and you have to redo the opening of the course (had an officer do it, right after the F/I said not to).

[Tokarev]

46 round qualification... which is duty carry. No more half loaded magazines for a revolver course of fire.

Only difference with the Glock you guys shot will be the magazine base.

I carried a 30S, so it wasn’t a hard transition. Worst part was listening to the classroom stuff. Another group had an officer put a round in the dirt coming out of the holster.

Another tip, when he does 1.5 yard shots... don’t punch out. Bent elbow shoot. Blow a hole in the center of the target, and you have to redo the opening of the course (had an officer do it, right after the F/I said not to).

We're actually talking about loading five mags at 10 rounds each since we have 47s and 19s on the line side by side. At this point we're having everyone load to twelve since that's what the 72 rd course is based on. As we get more and more agents shooting it we might just have 47 shooters load at one point and 19 shooters load at another. Will save time and be easier than having everyone download mags when they come to the range.

Nobody has shot the dirt yet as we're warming everyone up with quite a bit of dry fire. Letting them figure out the new trigger. I stress finger off the trigger until at least both hands on the gun and extending to the target*

We already shoot bent elbow* and have for 20+ years. We already know about blowing the target off its backer....[emoji16]

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[Screwball]

Nobody has shot the dirt yet as we're warming everyone up with quite a bit of dry fire. Letting them figure out the new trigger. I stress finger off the trigger until at least both hands on the gun and extending to the target*

We already shoot bent elbow* and have for 20+ years. We already know about blowing the target off its backer....[emoji16]

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Was directed towards the OP. [emoji6]

[Tokarev]

Was directed towards the OP.

10-4

Also we have the same extended plates on our high capacity murder clips. One of the guys at work who's more interested in Glocks than I am says Glock has made these previously for the European market.

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[HCM]

46 round qualification... which is duty carry. No more half loaded magazines for a revolver course of fire.

Only difference with the Glock you guys shot will be the magazine base. It is extended, and will go under your pinky. Thought I’d hate it, but I actually like it. Probably a useless feature, but it fits my hand well. Whole rig is noticeably lighter than the P2000... gun, magazines, and ammo. And the DHS serial number prefix is neat... more so if we could buy them back.

I run mine with the large backstrap/beavertail, and the Hogue Hunting grip (wraparound rubber with finger grooves; a pain to get on the gun with large backstrap). I do have bigger hands, but it feels like my 30S.

When OFO does the first qualification, they do at least two of the new course of fire... but the one that counts is a modified version of the old course (15 yard one with H&Ks). We probably messed it up due to our F/I, but that was the idea. Neither are that difficult.

The 46 courses we did, I did 44 and 46. We figured it out... make every shot before the 25, and you are above an 80. Some officers complained about the 25... I personally said get us some familiarity out to 50. Our management wants to play games with not giving us access to long guns, might be our only way of dealing with a threat out that far.

I carried a 30S, so it wasn’t a hard transition. Worst part was listening to the classroom stuff. Another group had an officer put a round in the dirt coming out of the holster. Guy carries a Glock off duty, but it is more due to the “take out the slack” mantra that was pushed with the LEM trigger. I hope officers put plenty of rounds downrange prior to people start needing to pull them out of the holster... since it is a very bad training scar. I still remember being on the line at FLETC, waiting to holster, and instructors yelling that I didn’t have the slack taken out of the trigger while waiting.

But you have some crappy shooters with OFO. A girl that shot next to me (previous TSA), cleared the Glock (when they do it now, you dry fire downrange before reholster)... both me and the RSO watched her put the gun in the holster with her finger on the trigger.

Another tip, when he does 1.5 yard shots... don’t punch out. Bent elbow shoot. Blow a hole in the center of the target, and you have to redo the opening of the course (had an officer do it, right after the F/I said not to).

Bent elbow has been around a long time - back to the old 84 ? round /50 yard USBP Revolver course. It’s in the current ICE course as well.

[Screwball]

10-4

Also we have the same extended plates on our high capacity murder clips. One of the guys at work who's more interested in Glocks than I am says Glock has made these previously for the European market.

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Just wondering... is there any source of them other than CBP? Didn’t know if your coworker might have said anything about it.

[Screwball]

Bent elbow has been around a long time - back to the old 84 ? round /50 yard USBP Revolver course. It’s in the current ICE course as well.

Was back in INS, from what senior officers have said... but not touched on with OFO.

No idea about Customs.

[Inspector71]

Did two long term TDY’s to Glynco/FAD back in 2008 and again 2011. Pushed thru big 48-man classes. Anyway, after one class had an unusually high “did not qualify” students on qual day, I’ll never forget on exasperated FI turn to me and say “we never had these problems when we issued the Glock “. Enjoy your new G19 !!

[JonInWA]

We've only transitioned a handful of shooters in my area. Official transition will start in October but we went ahead and did a few courses just to work out the round counts and times for what we want to do.

Anyway, so far, nobody is sad to see the P2000 go. It is a hard gun to shoot and even harder to shoot well. The LEM trigger is simply unnecessary and not worth the effort.

Scores have gone up a little but I accredit that to the dry fire and live fire warm up before we shoot for score. I imagine once the newness wears off we'll see good shooters are still good. Bad shooters will still be bad. But there will probably be a small amount of improvement just based off the trigger alone.

There will be some grip issues and people bumping slide releases and having to learn a new mag release but, so far, everyone is eager to kiss the P2000 goodbye. I won't miss it.

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Dagga Boy and others might have some slight disagreement on your assertion about the LEM trigger being unnecessary and not worth the effort.

I agree that a P2000 is probably not the most user-friendly platform for the .40 cartridge; my personal preference in a hammer-fired HK chambered in .40 would be with the P30/P30L-a bit more mass for recoil absorbtion and I prefer their ergonomics, and the extent to which they can be individually tailored (although the P2000 does have 4 backstrap options as opposed to the 3 of the P30).

HCM has probably hit the nail of the head-individuals counting on the long triggerpull inherent to LEM before a "bang" occurs are going to be disasterously surprised, unless they have sufficient familiarization and training.

On the other hand, Glocks have a heavier "wall" prior to the actual break, where the HK LEM wall is softer with a bit less of a transition.

It's really a matter of decision, taste and training. Either system/action is eminently workable, but for threat management under stress I think the LEM is a bit more preferable.

My thought is that for a dedicated shooter, the Glock action is faster, but for a non-dedicated shooter the LEM is probably safer, albeit slower in a pure shootablity context. I doubt that there is a real-world negative to the difference in shootability speed between the two systems.

I don't doubt that the Glock is far easier to qualify with, but in my opinion that's only one parameter of selection criteria; use and user-friendliness (ergonomics) to a broad spectrum of users and safety (holistically) are others, just to mention a few.

I like and appreciate Glocks, but there are some cogent reasons that a LEO needs to have their eyes wide open in electing to choose them, or a similar (e.g., VP 9/40, SIG P320) SFA pistol. And once chosen, a thorough familiarization and training program, both initial/transitionary and on-going.

Best, Jon

[Screwball]

HCM has probably hit the nail of the head-individuals counting on the long triggerpull inherent to LEM before a "bang" occurs are going to be disasterously surprised, unless they have sufficient familiarization and training.

Problem being OFO does not care for it. You got a gun, passed the qualification... you are good. I believe I mentioned it before, but I shot shy of 2,000 rounds at FLETC. That was also a pilot program that we were a part of, where prior to the first day on the range, we spent three two hour blocks of just dry fire on the E range (they didn’t use the E range guns because the triggers on them were regular DAO). Figure maybe 300 to 450 more rounds, if it was live fire familiarization.

Guess how many my group shot individually... right around 300 (if everyone was identical to me, 303). And my group was somewhat squared away... so that is the higher end from my port. I guess it is better than nothing, right?

With COVID, I get it. But the differences with the triggers get me worried about some of the less gun knowledgeable officers. Hell, I had a coworker have me stop by his house because he couldn’t unload his gun, prior to putting on those grip tapes. Walked in, jacked the round out of the chamber... and said what’s the problem. “Oh, you have to really pull it back.” [emoji15]

I hated the LEM trigger, but I got perfect qualifications with that gun. If we could have bought them... I would have. Not because I loved the gun, but because it was pretty much brand new and I went through FLETC with it.

[GJM]

I think we have beaten the LEM trigger and P2000 to death over the last 10 years. Settled science is that the P2000 yields less shooting performance for a given level of skill, but offers significant benefits in the non shooting part of handling a gun and using it defensively. I have a soft spot for it as it took care of business with this big Western Diamondback that was threatening my wife and dog earlier this year.

59590

[JonInWA]

I think we have beaten the LEM trigger and P2000 to death over the last 10 years. Settled science is that the P2000 yields less shooting performance for a given level of skill, but offers significant benefits in the non shooting part of handling a gun and using it defensively. I have a soft spot for it as it took care of business with this big Western Diamondback that was threatening my wife and dog earlier this year.

59590

We beat the dead horse, you shoot the snake dead.....

Best, Jon

[ObiWan]

I shot one of the early issue G19 a few months ago (don't ask) and thought it has decent sights and a slightly better trigger than my Blue Label G19 bought about 15 yrs ago.

Back in the INS/BP DOJ days with the 72 round qual (360 points) I thought it was a decent qual with some training value. That was with the old Beretta 96D. When DHS/CBP OFO was formed and we went to the Customs' 30 round qual we legacy INS felt like the whole firearms program was dumbed down for the benefit of the legacy Customs officers. They were still shooting their G17s until the transition to the P2000. Those of us that were "shooters" still feel that the program has been substantially dumbed down however the newer officers (post 2004) don't know the difference. The transition to the P2000, for me, was welcomed as, even though I shot the Beretta well ( I was "Top Gun" in my academy class) I welcomed the much shorter trigger pull of the P2000. It was close to that of my USPc that I bought through the INS employee purchase program back in 2001.
All the above said, I'd like to see a return to the old INS/BP DOJ 72 round qual. It should be much easier with 9mm and the Glock. I don't know if upper management in D.C. has any inclination to do that, but since firearms training is usually the first thing on the budget chopping block, I doubt it. No hard corps upper management since before Doris Meissner. NONE in DHS.

I would have bought my P2000 if I could have when I retired but "Slick Willie" stopped that for Feds and it still hasn't been reinstated (hear that Mr. President!!)

[Doc_Glock]

So my brother in law got his new DHS G19 MOS. Transition training consisted of turning in his P2000 being given a G19 and three mags in a box, being told to load up and qualify. He did end up qualifying but it wasn’t pretty I guess.

No transition training. At all. I don’t know anything about government law enforcement but this seems sort of messed up.

I am not going to publicly post his duty station. I can’t imagine the entire country is like this? Or is it. His agency is CBP.

He obtained 1000 rounds of 9mm and a few pointers from me and has a local range that lets him shoot for free so hopefully he can train himself up to a minimal standard.

[HCM]

So my brother in law got his new DHS G19 MOS. Transition training consisted of turning in his P2000 being given a G19 and three mags in a box, being told to load up and qualify. He did end up qualifying but it wasn’t pretty I guess.

No transition training. At all. I don’t know anything about government law enforcement but this seems sort of messed up.

I am not going to publicly post his duty station. I can’t imagine the entire country is like this? Or is it. His agency is CBP.

He obtained 1000 rounds of 9mm and a few pointers from me and has a local range that lets him shoot for free so hopefully he can train himself up to a minimal standard.

I’m sure CBP has a lesson plan including minimum time and ammo for the transition. We do a 4 hour block including field stripping, maintenance, 100–200 rounds of drills /fan fire, and at least 2 successful qualifications. It’s not much but better than “here you go sport.”

If local managers don’t give a damn and the firearms lead is a go along /get along type it’s irrelevant. Someone likely signed off that your BIL wa provides that transition training and falsifying training records is a big deal if someone were to report it.

[HCM]

I shot one of the early issue G19 a few months ago (don't ask) and thought it has decent sights and a slightly better trigger than my Blue Label G19 bought about 15 yrs ago.

Back in the INS/BP DOJ days with the 72 round qual (360 points) I thought it was a decent qual with some training value. That was with the old Beretta 96D. When DHS/CBP OFO was formed and we went to the Customs' 30 round qual we legacy INS felt like the whole firearms program was dumbed down for the benefit of the legacy Customs officers. They were still shooting their G17s until the transition to the P2000. Those of us that were "shooters" still feel that the program has been substantially dumbed down however the newer officers (post 2004) don't know the difference. The transition to the P2000, for me, was welcomed as, even though I shot the Beretta well ( I was "Top Gun" in my academy class) I welcomed the much shorter trigger pull of the P2000. It was close to that of my USPc that I bought through the INS employee purchase program back in 2001.
All the above said, I'd like to see a return to the old INS/BP DOJ 72 round qual. It should be much easier with 9mm and the Glock. I don't know if upper management in D.C. has any inclination to do that, but since firearms training is usually the first thing on the budget chopping block, I doubt it. No hard corps upper management since before Doris Meissner. NONE in DHS.

I would have bought my P2000 if I could have when I retired but "Slick Willie" stopped that for Feds and it still hasn't been reinstated (hear that Mr. President!!)

My sojourn into INS Inspections firearms training was no better than the current BS in CBP OFO.

Yes we shot the 360 course but there was ZERO training. You reported to the range - shot the qual course 1 or 2 times, cleaned your gun and then gas to either report back to the POE or take leave for the rest of the day. The SFI was a tool who thought the solution to females having trouble qualifying was to scream at them. He managed to get one to throw her gun down and leave the range in tears. And if you could shoot well he saw you as a threat who “needed to be taken down a notch.” What’s the old saying ? No man is useless, he can always serve as a bad example.

It was a far cry from my prior and subsequent duty stations.

PS - A co-worker who was both a retired cop and Vietnam vet learned the tough guy SFI was actually a Draft dodger who went to Canada to avoid Vietnam and was part of President Carter’s amnesty. Said co-worker never missed an opportunity to work references to “Canadian Special Forces” into any interaction with him. Apparently he got the job because his mother was a teacher who worked summers as a seasonal inspector. You can’t make this stuff up.

[Screwball]

Well, at least for OFO... found out LESC approved 19 magazines with Plus 2 bases, 17/47 magazines with Plus 2s, and 24 rounders (no bases). They gave numbers for all three, even though I’ve never seen 19 magazines with Plus 2s offered directly from Glock.

Adding an extension is said to be a no-go, along with anything that isn’t Glock OEM. Another officer hated the extended floor plate, so got regular Gen 5 magazines (went to the local gun shop and picked them up during lunch)... which should also be good to go.

I’m going to show the LESC statement (in their FAQ on their Sharepoint page) to the only F/I we still have, and see if that gives me clearance over the APD that handles firearms. If so, I’ll have at least four of those magazines within two weeks. Sad that we have to deal with management in this way, but is what it is.

Saw off duty 19 holster on VF Solutions yesterday... so hope the light bearing ones will pop up when it opens up for the new FY. Will discuss it with the F/I and order one. Looked over the PowerPoint for light training... just need to have a handheld light on you at all times. Have one on my vest, and one in my pocket. Done. Lights are going to be our next push.

[ObiWan]

HCM:

Our INS firearms unit was pretty good. After a pre qual and qual (I had to qual with both my Beretta 96 and my H&K USPc since it was INS provided via purchase plan) each quarter we would spend the rest of the day doing other things. Sometimes it was shooting steel, sometimes it was force on force with simulations, other times it was scenario based with down range targets. We even did room clearing exercises. Once we even did an assault on fortified position using paint ball guns (it was a cover and concealment exercise). It was a full day of qual and training and it was quarterly! They even provided us with ammo for practice! Naturally not everyone was a "shooter" and I obtained a lot of "practice ammo".

I understand that CBP/OFO has a lot more officers to qual and train (since it's now INS AND Customs combined) and it's now probably not quarterly any more. (I lost track of their training routine since I retired) I also understand that classroom work constitutes a big part of the day. It's all that they can do to schedule every one periodically. I just hate to see quality trigger time go down with the increase in officers.

[Shipwreck]

I don't work for the federal govt, but I have carried a P2000 9mm DA/SA for 5.5 years. I switched to a Gen 5 Glock 19 last month The 5th gen Glocks got me back into Glock. I have owned many over the years, but never really got into them. Now, I bought a G34 this month, and I have another G34 I am picking up tomorrow - going to get that one customized.

To my knowledge, the P2000 IS still being made by HK. I have owned like 11 or 12 HKs over the years - the P2000 is my favorite of them all. But, I also do not have the LEM trigger. I like it in DA/SA, and in 9mm.