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View Full Version : Ram just launched its Raptor competitor: the Ram TRX



LittleLebowski
08-17-2020, 12:44 PM
702 horsepower Hellcat engine and way better suspension than the Raptor.

https://www.autoblog.com/2020/08/17/2021-ram-1500-trx-revealed/

58942

rob_s
08-17-2020, 01:07 PM
Interesting that so many people were hoping that this was going to be in the $50k range. probably be a $80k+ street price particularly while it's new hotness.

Grey
08-17-2020, 01:10 PM
So hot... SO HOT...

JRB
08-17-2020, 01:31 PM
They won't have any trouble selling them, that's for sure.
We'll see a lot of examples making 1000+hp in short order, too.

Grey
08-17-2020, 01:45 PM
The price is a bit redic, I'd take a Raptor for the difference...

JRB
08-17-2020, 01:49 PM
As an engine swapping fiscal idiot hot rodder, I'm predicting these TRX's will be a wonderful source of Hellcat drivelines in the future. Rollovers, suspension destruction, etc is an easy way to total one of these without hurting the engine. Wrecked Hellcats tend to be rather messed up.

Jakus
08-17-2020, 02:00 PM
The price is a bit redic, I'd take a Raptor for the difference...

Most of the new Raptors I am seeing online show MSRPs in the $70k+ range. I don’t think dealers are letting them go for under MSRP so the difference doesn’t appear to be that large.

Competition is a wonderful thing. Ford will have to respond or see their Raptor sales slow or fall in price.

JRB
08-17-2020, 02:10 PM
Most of the new Raptors I am seeing online show MSRPs in the $70k+ range. I don’t think dealers are letting them go for under MSRP so the difference doesn’t appear to be that large.

Competition is a wonderful thing. Ford will have to respond or see their Raptor sales slow or fall in price.

The Raptor has always been overpriced and underpowered. Short of Ford going properly nuts and dropping the new GT500 motor under the hood (which I'm sure will push the price to nearly 6 digits) they have no good answer for the TRX.

rob_s
08-17-2020, 02:17 PM
I still wish someone would just do one of these as a more "urban" offering, with maybe not quite the $70k pricetag. There's some SUV options like the Durango SRT starting at $60k or Grand Chrokee SRT starting at almost $70k but I'd love to see a modern take on the Ford Lightning or the GMC Cyclone.

Make it AWD (as opposed to 4WD), 4 real doors, put that Hellcat motor in it, put street tires on it and maybe even drop it down a bit... I'd probably be a buyer in the $60k realm.

jetfire
08-17-2020, 02:19 PM
Wrecked Hellcats tend to be rather messed up.

Hosing the driver out of what's left of the cab can be a real pain in the ass

Bolt_Overide
08-17-2020, 02:19 PM
I've been watching this for a while, well drooling over actually. Pricing just killed it for me, thats half a house.

JRB
08-17-2020, 02:27 PM
I still wish someone would just do one of these as a more "urban" offering, with maybe not quite the $70k pricetag. There's some SUV options like the Durango SRT starting at $60k or Grand Chrokee SRT starting at almost $70k but I'd love to see a modern take on the Ford Lightning or the GMC Cyclone.

Make it AWD (as opposed to 4WD), 4 real doors, put that Hellcat motor in it, put street tires on it and maybe even drop it down a bit... I'd probably be a buyer in the $60k realm.

Virtually every modern 4WD is electronically controlled and the front and rear diff are geared identically. Meaning there's no significant difference between an AWD and a 4WD anymore.

The TRX is reputed to get a launch control system and have several different driving modes that change the torque split between the front and rear axle, which tells me that it's basically AWD.

Bigghoss
08-17-2020, 02:36 PM
Electronically controlled transfer case. Worthless.

rob_s
08-17-2020, 02:37 PM
Virtually every modern 4WD is electronically controlled and the front and rear diff are geared identically. Meaning there's no significant difference between an AWD and a 4WD anymore.

The TRX is reputed to get a launch control system and have several different driving modes that change the torque split between the front and rear axle, which tells me that it's basically AWD.

that's good to know.

I'd still rather have it lower and more street oriented. Not "slammed" like some kind of low-rider, but something Lightning-esque or SRT10-esque. I don't want/need the extreme offroad capabilities and I'd like to either keep those dollars in my pocket or apply them elsewhere on the vehicle.

JRB
08-17-2020, 02:48 PM
Electronically controlled transfer case. Worthless.

Don't let the old viscous center diff disasters of the 90's steer you wrong. The tech at this point is very mature and nicely sorted out. No, it won't ever replace triple lockers with live axles for serious rock crawling and the complication makes it a silly idea for far-from-society overlanding.
But having a 50/50 F/R torque bias setting and a rear locker, it'll get you just stuck enough that a triple-locked 80 series Cruiser or similar can still come pull you out.


that's good to know.

I'd still rather have it lower and more street oriented. Not "slammed" like some kind of low-rider, but something Lightning-esque or SRT10-esque. I don't want/need the extreme offroad capabilities and I'd like to either keep those dollars in my pocket or apply them elsewhere on the vehicle.

I totally get what you're saying. But if Dodge does such a truck, I'm pretty sure it'll be a single cab shortbed.

At the old shop, we did a lot of twin turbo Silverados and GMC's, thanks to our sister company, Armageddon Turbo Systems. Our demo truck was a 2015 5.3L 4wd LTZ quad cab shortbed, and we did lots of 4wd burnouts trying to kill that 8L90E auto trans to no avail. Made low 600's at the tire on pump premium, and was defintely in the sub 5-second 0-60 range. It also got 22mpg on the highway between ABQ and Vegas for SEMA years ago.

A customer later on special ordered a 6.2L 4wd single cab shortbed specifically to be a host for our turbo kit, and that was definitely a late-model Syclone if I'd ever seen it.
It's also rather easy to get a 5.0L Coyote F150 or Dodge 5.7L Hemi built to your taste and just add a Whipple SC and some headers.

So while the aftermarket is simply not an option for some folks, and I 100% understand why, the aftermarket can very easily get you the truck of your choosing.

Bigghoss
08-17-2020, 03:02 PM
Don't let the old viscous center diff disasters of the 90's steer you wrong. The tech at this point is very mature and nicely sorted out. No, it won't ever replace triple lockers with live axles for serious rock crawling and the complication makes it a silly idea for far-from-society overlanding.
But having a 50/50 F/R torque bias setting and a rear locker, it'll get you just stuck enough that a triple-locked 80 series Cruiser or similar can still come pull you out.

Well I don't like that either but mostly I'm pissed that there's a stupid button to select what mode it's in. The only driving modes I need, the only modes I want are 2hi, 4hi, and 4lo and I want a lever coming through the floor to select them. I got a Ram 1500 stuck in a inch of snow and the damn thing didn't want to go into 4wd. When I finally did get it into 4wd and back onto pavement, where that piece of shit belongs, the transfer case got stuck in 4wd and wouldn't go back into 2wd. Fuck that shit.

I'll keep my '84 Blazer and 94 Ranger and Ram Trucks can ram that thing where the sun don't shine.

GJM
08-17-2020, 03:04 PM
Hosing the driver out of what's left of the cab can be a real pain in the ass

Like this at an airport we frequent:

https://www.foxnews.com/auto/two-killed-during-dodge-challenger-hellcat-test-drive-on-airport-runway

Bratch
08-17-2020, 03:09 PM
I built one out this morning that was equipped but I skipped lots of options... $85k.

I still question what I paid for my 2014 Raptor, a new one for $85k sure isn’t finding its way to my house.

BehindBlueI's
08-17-2020, 04:02 PM
I still wish someone would just do one of these as a more "urban" offering, with maybe not quite the $70k pricetag. There's some SUV options like the Durango SRT starting at $60k or Grand Chrokee SRT starting at almost $70k but I'd love to see a modern take on the Ford Lightning or the GMC Cyclone.

Make it AWD (as opposed to 4WD), 4 real doors, put that Hellcat motor in it, put street tires on it and maybe even drop it down a bit... I'd probably be a buyer in the $60k realm.

Same. If Dodge (excuse me, RAM) would do a Lil' Red Express version as a street/highway cruiser that'd be slick. Or Chevy could revive the 454 SS, which kind of sucked in the execution in the day but was a sweet concept. I like the TRX but I'll never do any baja racing type stuff and don't need or want all the high tech off road whiz-bangery. If someone made something that combined my Ram and Camaro into one vehicle, (El Camino doesn't count...) I'd look pretty seriously at it. This is too much money for capability I don't want at the expense of what I do want.

I've been kicking around test driving a Trackhawk or even one of the BMW sport SUV offerings, but so far I'm just happy with what I've got.

JRB
08-17-2020, 04:31 PM
...and don't need or want all the high tech off road whiz-bangery...

Unfortunately for those of us with simpler tastes, the history of exorbitant settlements against Porsche for daring to make the Carrera GT without all that whiz-bangery has effectively shut that door.
Some high profile rich folks died in Carrera GT's, and surviving dependents and widows sued Porsche for being criminally negligent for NOT including those nannies/safety features on the Carrera GT, despite having the means to do so. Jury after jury agreed and ruled against Porsche to the tune of tens of millions of dollars on several occasions.

That forever shifted the development of supercars and driver's cars, so we'll never see a performance vehicle without all that crap ever again. The only way to have something like that is to build it yourself. But even then, that's still no protection as discovered recently by Kevin Hart after he wrecked his Hellcat-swapped classic Challenger, and passengers riding with him sought to sue Kevin *and* the shop that built him the car. I don't know where those suits ended up, but I sure as hell hope the judges involved laughed them out of court.

JohnO
08-17-2020, 04:43 PM
https://reedbrothersdodgehistory.files.wordpress.com/2019/03/that-thing-gotta-hemi.jpg?w=584

BehindBlueI's
08-17-2020, 06:02 PM
Unfortunately for those of us with simpler tastes, the history of exorbitant settlements against Porsche for daring to make the Carrera GT without all that whiz-bangery has effectively shut that door.

I'm not talking about traction control and the like. I'm talking about all the modifications that make it a more capable off roader, often at the cost of on road performance. Extra height, extra width, softer suspension with more travel, reservoir shocks, etc. etc. Something more street oriented like the SRT-10 was would be of more interest to me then the TRX, although it is certainly cool.

rd62
08-17-2020, 06:26 PM
I feel like the TRX and Raptor should both come with flat rim ball caps and a Monster Energy decal on the back window, but then I'm more a Power Wagon kinda guy. I don't even like the TRX and Raptor names.

I'd like to see them do a full size Jeep Gladiator and call it a Kaiser (though that name would prob never fly now). Solid front and rear axels, lockers in both, higer payload and towing capacity, less flash.

Maca
08-17-2020, 06:29 PM
The truck is awesome. Unfortunately, living in the city, it would prove difficult to drive and park it on a daily basis.

1911Nut
08-17-2020, 07:10 PM
I owned a 2014 Raptor that I purchased new in 2014. Very nice truck.

I sold it and purchased a new RAM Rebel in 2019.

I like the RAM better for my needs and usage.

rob_s
08-18-2020, 04:52 AM
don't need or want all the high tech off road whiz-bangery.


we'll never see a performance vehicle without all that crap ever again.


I'm not talking about traction control and the like. I'm talking about all the modifications that make it a more capable off roader, often at the cost of on road performance. Extra height, extra width, softer suspension with more travel, reservoir shocks, etc. etc. Something more street oriented like the SRT-10 was would be of more interest to me then the TRX, although it is certainly cool.

Exactly. The operable words here are “off road”. I DO want all of that on-road whiz-bangery!

I get the nostalgia a lot of people have for old shit (just Look at all the revolver threads here. ;) ) but I generally don’t share it. I’m tired of the “I’m just old school” copout bullshit. If there’s something that makes the car safer and easier to drive fast, I want it. In some instances I’d like to have the option of turning it on or off, but I want it. It’s precisely the fact that we ARENT talking about a track car. I’m going to be driving it to work, to tote the family around, etc. I want a daily driver that works for my needs that’s also got some get up and go.

Just like guns, the “enthusiast market” is 99.9% people bitching about the old days on the internet and 0.1% that are or would be actual buyers. These manufacturers aren’t stupid, they (at least try) to make what sells. If someone is looking at a new car and going “ man I wish it didn’t have all that...” then they aren’t marketing to him, and the fact is that even if it didn’t he probably still wouldn’t be buying because he wouldn’t be able to afford it, or still has to drive it to work like the rest of us.

Which, back to the TRX, is a shame about the price. Lots of online sources were speculating a similar starting price to the Raptor, even though actual Raptors tend to sell for much higher after all the options are added. I wonder if RAM couldn’t have produced a truck with a similar power:weight and 0-60 as the Raptor and instead undercut the shit out of them on price. Even I might opt for the stupid “Baja in the grocery store parking lot” look if the thing was $20k cheaper. As it is, for me, there’s a lot of SUVs I’d rather have for less. Since I can’t get an actual on-road performance pickup.

Hambo
08-18-2020, 05:12 AM
As an engine swapping fiscal idiot hot rodder, I'm predicting these TRX's will be a wonderful source of Hellcat drivelines in the future. Rollovers, suspension destruction, etc is an easy way to total one of these without hurting the engine. Wrecked Hellcats tend to be rather messed up.

I like the way you think.

Bigghoss
08-18-2020, 06:38 AM
Exactly. The operable words here are “off road”. I DO want all of that on-road whiz-bangery!

I get the nostalgia a lot of people have for old shit (just Look at all the revolver threads here. ;) ) but I generally don’t share it. I’m tired of the “I’m just old school” copout bullshit. If there’s something that makes the car safer and easier to drive fast, I want it. In some instances I’d like to have the option of turning it on or off, but I want it. It’s precisely the fact that we ARENT talking about a track car. I’m going to be driving it to work, to tote the family around, etc. I want a daily driver that works for my needs that’s also got some get up and go.

Just like guns, the “enthusiast market” is 99.9% people bitching about the old days on the internet and 0.1% that are or would be actual buyers. These manufacturers aren’t stupid, they (at least try) to make what sells. If someone is looking at a new car and going “ man I wish it didn’t have all that...” then they aren’t marketing to him, and the fact is that even if it didn’t he probably still wouldn’t be buying because he wouldn’t be able to afford it, or still has to drive it to work like the rest of us.

ABS and traction control are fine. The RAM traction control works pretty well actually. Although turning it off doesn't really turn it off which I don't like. I once almost got a Chevy 1500 stuck because I hit some mud in 2wd and it tried putting on the brakes when the tires started spinning so that was aggravating. But overall I can live with that stuff. I would prefer a simpler vehicle but the only thing I won't compromise on is the transfer case and the method of engaging the front wheels to the front diff. If just about any other system malfunctions I'll know it right away. If the motor to shift the T-case isn't working or the actuator to engage the front tires craps out I won't know it until I need 4wd. I want a basic manual transfer case and manual or live hubs.

rob_s
08-18-2020, 07:02 AM
ABS and traction control are fine. The RAM traction control works pretty well actually. Although turning it off doesn't really turn it off which I don't like. I once almost got a Chevy 1500 stuck because I hit some mud in 2wd and it tried putting on the brakes when the tires started spinning so that was aggravating. But overall I can live with that stuff. I would prefer a simpler vehicle but the only thing I won't compromise on is the transfer case and the method of engaging the front wheels to the front diff. If just about any other system malfunctions I'll know it right away. If the motor to shift the T-case isn't working or the actuator to engage the front tires craps out I won't know it until I need 4wd. I want a basic manual transfer case and manual or live hubs.

I get all that, but it would appear that you are in the silent minority, based on what gets manufactured. Are there any new vehicles that meet those requirements? If not, I’d say that’s a clue as to what’s widely “needed” or wanted.

The other question is “why?” Is this a daily driver we’re talking about? Do you find yourself “needing” this capability on your daily drive? If not, why not have a separate vehicle that’s better suited to those conditions?

There just aren’t that many people that are going to buy a $70k truck, drive it 300 miles on highway and pavement, then take it off-road and push it to the point that the it gets stuck so bad that the technology is the thing that prevents it from getting un-stuck.

I bet that’s even true of the Rebel, and frank,y probably even true of the cheapest v6 4wd full-size pickup that any of the big three or Toyota makes.

BehindBlueI's
08-18-2020, 08:48 AM
Exactly. The operable words here are “off road”. I DO want all of that on-road whiz-bangery!

I get the nostalgia a lot of people have for old shit (just Look at all the revolver threads here. ;) ) but I generally don’t share it. I’m tired of the “I’m just old school” copout bullshit. If there’s something that makes the car safer and easier to drive fast, I want it. In some instances I’d like to have the option of turning it on or off, but I want it. It’s precisely the fact that we ARENT talking about a track car. I’m going to be driving it to work, to tote the family around, etc. I want a daily driver that works for my needs that’s also got some get up and go.

I certainly appreciate the OPTIONAL use of traction control, ABS, and can see the benefit of blind spot monitoring on certain vehicles (pro tip: set your mirrors correctly and there aren't any blind spots on passenger vehicles), and warnings for lane departure, you're going to sleep, etc. Where I draw the line is when the vehicle takes over for you. Automatic braking and/or steering for collision avoidance. I also don't want over the air updates and the ability for the manufacturer or hacker to brick my vehicle. Garmin just paid a ransom for their data, so it's not exactly tin foil hat to think an auto maker could be hacked and the hackers send out a fuel map that makes your vehicle unable to start until Ford or whoever pays the ransom.

11B10
08-18-2020, 09:07 AM
I have friend, a coworker, who recently bought a mint condition 2016 Dodge Challenger Hellcat. I'm not a MoPar guy, but the only fault I can find with this rocket - is his choice of color. It's "Plum Crazy." He drives it to work on sunny days and has taken me for a couple white knuckle rides. Any razzing by me about it looking like a kiddie car - died the first time he put the hammer down. Hemi-powered vehicles are nothing new where I work. We drive them in Challengers, Rams, etc. - so I'm kinda/sorta used to the g forces and outrageous sound. This is a completely different animal. What's amazing to me is that 20 - 30 years ago, I would have bet the farm that true American muscle cars from the big 3 were a memory. However, today performance engineers are engaged in the best trend of one-upmanship I've ever seen in American automotive history.

Bigghoss
08-18-2020, 09:10 AM
I get all that, but it would appear that you are in the silent minority, based on what gets manufactured. Are there any new vehicles that meet those requirements? If not, I’d say that’s a clue as to what’s widely “needed” or wanted.

The other question is “why?” Is this a daily driver we’re talking about? Do you find yourself “needing” this capability on your daily drive? If not, why not have a separate vehicle that’s better suited to those conditions?

There just aren’t that many people that are going to buy a $70k truck, drive it 300 miles on highway and pavement, then take it off-road and push it to the point that the it gets stuck so bad that the technology is the thing that prevents it from getting un-stuck.

I bet that’s even true of the Rebel, and frank,y probably even true of the cheapest v6 4wd full-size pickup that any of the big three or Toyota makes.

I'm not sure we're quite on the same page. I'm only talking about selecting 2hi, 4hi, and 4lo with a switch vs a manual lever. That doesn't affect the trucks capabilities so long as it actually goes into 4wd. I have personally had problems with late-model trucks using electric switches and there are plenty of horror stories from folks going back since to the first electric shift t-cases. 4wd isn't even something a person needs every day but when you need it you need it, like a gun or a tourniquet. The roads get slick in the winter where I am and I also plan to take my truck to places where I'll need the 4wd so I want to know it'll work.

The Jeep Wrangler and Gladiator have live hubs and manual transfer cases but I don't know of any other vehicles that have them currently. Dodge and Ford both had problems with their early automatic hubs on several models and went back to live hubs for a while and on the Super Duty Fords they still have hubs with a manual override.

I think most people almost never use their 4wd and they only keep the truck a few years before getting a new one. The two times they ever used it it worked so they don't care. In this day and age many new truck buyers might not have ever even seen a manual transfer case.

rob_s
08-18-2020, 09:20 AM
I certainly appreciate the OPTIONAL use of traction control, ABS, and can see the benefit of blind spot monitoring on certain vehicles (pro tip: set your mirrors correctly and there aren't any blind spots on passenger vehicles), and warnings for lane departure, you're going to sleep, etc. Where I draw the line is when the vehicle takes over for you. Automatic braking and/or steering for collision avoidance. I also don't want over the air updates and the ability for the manufacturer or hacker to brick my vehicle. Garmin just paid a ransom for their data, so it's not exactly tin foil hat to think an auto maker could be hacked and the hackers send out a fuel map that makes your vehicle unable to start until Ford or whoever pays the ransom.

I'm fine with most of those things provided they are "opt in". My wife's Honda Pilot has adaptive cruise control and lane keeping, and I love both of them on long trips but in both cases you have to choose to turn them on.

I also really don't care about over the air. it's coming, like it or not.

Navin Johnson
08-18-2020, 10:08 AM
I think it's really cool that there are American cars that people are getting emotional about again.

If I had unlimited money I would have something like this or a raptor just to drive on the weekends. It would not be practical at all as an everyday driver as compared to a platinum or limited version of a Ford or Dodge for far less money.

They will be a good value used as most will never see dirt let alone any off-road situation.

There is no sex in the champagne room (translation: there's no pussy magnet that comes with this truck).... They're actually more of a dick magnet.

They will sell every one of these at MSRP or more.

My brother has a Ruby that he threw 10 grand worth a s*** at and it will never see dirt.... He's beginning to realize how impractical a lifted Wrangler is for a daily driver.

These types of vehicles generally have very good resale value so they're a safe vehicle to buy. (the best for resale value in my neck of the woods is a Tacoma TRD pro which is a terrible daily driver).

The other question is if you were to take your own RAM and throw 30 or $40,000 at it to be at the same price point how good of suspension and motor could you have in it?

personally I look at it as I can have a nice F-150 and a mustang for the price of a raptor. Which would likely cover my needs far better than a $90,000 truck designed for off-road performance. (Sorry for being practical)

I can't wait to see one.

BehindBlueI's
08-18-2020, 10:50 AM
personally I look at it as I can have a nice F-150 and a mustang for the price of a raptor.

That's basically what I did, but Ram and Camaro. I've been a two vehicle person since I was about 20, I guess, with the Scout/Corvette combo. The advantage to having both rolled into one is never being out on the road thinking "I could... if I'd driven the other one". My truck never sees off road, but it has seen curb hops, medians, etc. on occasion to get out of stuff I wanted to get out of. (Nothing real interesting, just traffic jams or "oh shit, this goes to a parking garage" sort of moments.



I also really don't care about over the air. it's coming, like it or not.

That's fine and someone will probably figure out a way to disable it (maybe just unplug an antennae? I don't know.) and once they are used and out of warranty, who will care? As long as they don't mandate it or crush all the cars without it, I have no issue with it being available for those who want it. I just don't see me being one of them. Sort of like start/stop. I don't want it. There's a cheap aftermarket fix that turns it off if I otherwise wanted a vehicle that was equipped with it.

JRB
08-18-2020, 11:03 AM
I'm not sure we're quite on the same page. I'm only talking about selecting 2hi, 4hi, and 4lo with a switch vs a manual lever...
...I think most people almost never use their 4wd and they only keep the truck a few years before getting a new one. The two times they ever used it it worked so they don't care. In this day and age many new truck buyers might not have ever even seen a manual transfer case.

Unfortunately, this is exactly right. OEM's are interested in preventing damage under warranty, and manual transmissions, manual t-cases, etc are going extinct because of that - the PCM can't conclude the driver is an idiot and say 'no' if it's a fully manual mechanical lever. Since that can be done and meet the needs of the buyer/4wd user you describe, that's the world we now live in. Average buyers want more space for cupholders instead of a tcase shifter.

I've a fondness for the last iterations of Toyota 4wd's with manual t-case levers. 3rd gen 4runners, Sequoias and Land Cruisers until 2003 or so, etc. So while that auto-4wd tech has gotten a lot better recently than I feel you give it credit, and I've experienced the same bed-wetting performance from older pushbutton systems, At the end of the day we agree and I'd prefer the lever myself.



I think it's really cool that there are American cars that people are getting emotional about again....

....There is no sex in the champagne room (translation: there's no pussy magnet that comes with this truck).... They're actually more of a dick magnet.



I think nice trucks appeal to more people than fast cars these days. Here in ABQ, I'll tell you that a badass truck like a supercharged Raptor or this Rebel TRX will absolutely elicit interest and excitement from more women than you'd think. If you can spin a girl all over a country dance floor and have a truck like that in the parking lot outside, you would be *surprised* at how that pans out.

Japanese sports cars, on the other hand, are straight up dick-magnets.

11B10
08-18-2020, 12:16 PM
[QUOTE=BehindBlueI's; Sort of like start/stop. I don't want it. There's a cheap aftermarket fix that turns it off if I otherwise wanted a vehicle that was equipped with it.[/QUOTE]



BBI - in my soon to end, part-time/retirement job, I'm pretty sure I've driven every vehicle, model years from 2017-2020, equipped with that wretched "feature." It's not unusual for me to drive 10 different vehicles in a single day.
In every one, there has been a defeat button. Also in every one, the design is the same: a circle with an "A" in the middle. The manufacturers have been real creative in hiding it, but there has always been one,,,,,,somewhere. Also, there is another way to get around it - just shift into neutral at a red light.

RevolverRob
08-18-2020, 12:39 PM
Have folks driven a lot of off-road suspensions on the street? Like properly setup, designed to drive across extremely rough terrain at speed (think Baja) suspension?

They aren't particularly rough, especially on pavement. In fact, they're downright plush compared to a truck with a towing package and dualies. Think about, these suspensions are designed to give you control of a vehicle at a high rate of speed across ground best described as "near undriveable". For your average pot-hole in the city it's like a 'roided out body builder popping a pimple.

Imagine having a vehicle that you can see the entire road in, you can stomp the gas pedal and beat everyone in traffic in, AND rides more like Grandma's old Grand Ma(rquis) than a pickup truck. That's what you get with a Raptor/TRX/Off-Road Oriented Vehicle on the street.

The only thing that sucks about having something truly setup for off-road vs. on-road is tire choice. Fortunately, the all-terrain tire segment has come A LONG way in the past decade. The Pirelli Scorpions I have on my FJ right now are as quiet as the Michelin Defenders I have on the wife's car. The ride is a bit harsher, due to having LT instead of Ps, but otherwise, it's a very nice ride. I mean, I just drove 2200 miles in a few days, 1100 of it pulling an extra 3000 pounds of car and trailer, no complaints from the truck (the UHaul trailer was a pain in the ass, but whatever).

rob_s
08-18-2020, 12:58 PM
BBI - in my soon to end, part-time/retirement job, I'm pretty sure I've driven every vehicle, model years from 2017-2020, equipped with that wretched "feature." It's not unusual for me to drive 10 different vehicles in a single day.
In every one, there has been a defeat button. Also in every one, the design is the same: a circle with an "A" in the middle. The manufacturers have been real creative in hiding it, but there has always been one,,,,,,somewhere. Also, there is another way to get around it - just shift into neutral at a red light.

I think what most of us would like to see is a "shut off permanently" button not the "shut it off every time you drive" button.

I believe I saw the other day that some enterprising soul has come out with some sort of harness you plug in that effectively "pushes the button" for you every time you start the car, but even that seems annoying, albeit better.

rob_s
08-18-2020, 01:03 PM
Have folks driven a lot of off-road suspensions on the street? Like properly setup, designed to drive across extremely rough terrain at speed (think Baja) suspension?

They aren't particularly rough, especially on pavement. In fact, they're downright plush compared to a truck with a towing package and dualies. Think about, these suspensions are designed to give you control of a vehicle at a high rate of speed across ground best described as "near undriveable". For your average pot-hole in the city it's like a 'roided out body builder popping a pimple.

Imagine having a vehicle that you can see the entire road in, you can stomp the gas pedal and beat everyone in traffic in, AND rides more like Grandma's old Grand Ma(rquis) than a pickup truck. That's what you get with a Raptor/TRX/Off-Road Oriented Vehicle on the street.

The only thing that sucks about having something truly setup for off-road vs. on-road is tire choice. Fortunately, the all-terrain tire segment has come A LONG way in the past decade. The Pirelli Scorpions I have on my FJ right now are as quiet as the Michelin Defenders I have on the wife's car. The ride is a bit harsher, due to having LT instead of Ps, but otherwise, it's a very nice ride. I mean, I just drove 2200 miles in a few days, 1100 of it pulling an extra 3000 pounds of car and trailer, no complaints from the truck (the UHaul trailer was a pain in the ass, but whatever).

the thing is...
A) you look like an idiot rolling around the 'burbs in your never-gets-dirty baja-wannabe truck.
B) I'd prefer *not* to pay for all that suspension that I'm not using. I have no complaints about my current RAM as a daily driver in the suspension department
C) if I *am* going to pay for suspension upgrades, I'd personally prefer them to be street specific since I'm not visiting baja anytime soon.
D) fullsize trucks are already a bitch to park in the modern world, and the wider stance of these baja trucks only makes that worse.

I think that what I really want is a 4-door pickup with AWD and a set of tires and suspension more suited to the driving I do without paying for tires and suspension suited to driving I'm never going to do. I don't need it to even be TRX fast. I'll settle for Raptor fast. Particularly if I don't have to pay as much for the privilege or look like (more of?) a choad doing it.

But, clearly nobody else wants that in the truck market, so I'm also fine just driving my boring RAM sport that's paid for.

Nephrology
08-18-2020, 01:13 PM
the thing is...
A) you look like an idiot rolling around the 'burbs in your never-gets-dirty baja-wannabe truck.
B) I'd prefer *not* to pay for all that suspension that I'm not using. I have no complaints about my current RAM as a daily driver in the suspension department
C) if I *am* going to pay for suspension upgrades, I'd personally prefer them to be street specific since I'm not visiting baja anytime soon.
D) fullsize trucks are already a bitch to park in the modern world, and the wider stance of these baja trucks only makes that worse.

I think that what I really want is a 4-door pickup with AWD and a set of tires and suspension more suited to the driving I do without paying for tires and suspension suited to driving I'm never going to do. I don't need it to even be TRX fast. I'll settle for Raptor fast. Particularly if I don't have to pay as much for the privilege or look like (more of?) a choad doing it.

But, clearly nobody else wants that in the truck market, so I'm also fine just driving my boring RAM sport that's paid for.

I just can't get over dropping $75k-80k on a truck. I would need to be making a very healthy salary, carry little or no debt, and have a lot of savings/investments before I splurge that hard on a depreciating asset.

If those things were true, hell yeah, but the puritan upbringing of mine just can't see it in my mind's eye.

11B10
08-18-2020, 01:27 PM
I think what most of us would like to see is a "shut off permanently" button not the "shut it off every time you drive" button.

I believe I saw the other day that some enterprising soul has come out with some sort of harness you plug in that effectively "pushes the button" for you every time you start the car, but even that seems annoying, albeit better.


I totally get shutting it off every time can be a pain. However, consider..... it's a whole lot easier and cheaper than installing some sort of after market harness that just might invalidate your warranty.

RevolverRob
08-18-2020, 02:04 PM
But, clearly nobody else wants that in the truck market, so I'm also fine just driving my boring RAM sport that's paid for.

Why would they?

The only thing worse than a baja-wannabe 4x4 that is never dirty is a slammed pick up that can't haul a fat chick home from the bar without scraping the ground. I get where you're coming from and I always liked the Lightning and Syclone, etc. But they're really dumb vehicles overall, far stupider than the more capable and more comfortable Raptor/TRX/Pre-Runner/Whatever-or because at least those things can do pretty much all the things you expect from your average pickup. Yea, you might look like a choad or you might look cool as hell, whatever

And besides if looking cool wasn't the primary goal of owning a ShellcatZGTR5000 then they wouldn't exist and if looking like a choad wasn't what some people wanted to do things like fake scoops, spinner hubcaps, whistle tips, and rolling coal wouldn't exist, either.

BehindBlueI's
08-18-2020, 02:15 PM
In every one, there has been a defeat button. Also in every one, the design is the same: a circle with an "A" in the middle. The manufacturers have been real creative in hiding it, but there has always been one,,,,,,somewhere. Also, there is another way to get around it - just shift into neutral at a red light.


I think what most of us would like to see is a "shut off permanently" button not the "shut it off every time you drive" button.


Yes, I linked to one of several in the thread about Ford going to OTA updates. It's actually a little bit smarter then just pushing the button for you, it just remembers your setting. If you turn it off, the device leaves it off until you turn it back on instead of it turning back on every time you shut it off. However, if you leave it on it will also leave it on.

BehindBlueI's
08-18-2020, 02:34 PM
I totally get shutting it off every time can be a pain. However, consider..... it's a whole lot easier and cheaper than installing some sort of after market harness that just might invalidate your warranty.

Most of the options take less then 5 minutes to install, and some just plug in to the diagnostic port (although they tend to be more pricey). If you can plug in a lamp you can install one. As far as warranty, it's nothing to remove one but for it to affect the warranty they have to prove the part caused the problem. You can't just summarily wipe out a warranty because of a modification. Changing my radio to an aftermarket one doesn't affect my brake caliper cracking, etc.

I get the appeal on a hybrid where the electric motor is going to get the vehicle rolling again anyway and start the gas motor in the process if required. On an all gas vehicle, start/stop adds wear and tear, reduces battery life, etc. I don't want it.

JRB
08-18-2020, 04:15 PM
Have folks driven a lot of off-road suspensions on the street? Like properly setup, designed to drive across extremely rough terrain at speed (think Baja) suspension?

They aren't particularly rough, especially on pavement. In fact, they're downright plush compared to a truck with a towing package and dualies. Think about, these suspensions are designed to give you control of a vehicle at a high rate of speed across ground best described as "near undriveable". For your average pot-hole in the city it's like a 'roided out body builder popping a pimple.

Imagine having a vehicle that you can see the entire road in, you can stomp the gas pedal and beat everyone in traffic in, AND rides more like Grandma's old Grand Ma(rquis) than a pickup truck. That's what you get with a Raptor/TRX/Off-Road Oriented Vehicle on the street....


Suspension mods to trucks are one of the most ham-fisted industries out there. The overwhelming majority of aftermarket options add height and make everything else worse. Doing that is relatively cheap so it's common.

The kind of proper baja suspension setup you're talking about starts around $5k for a really well supported vehicle (e.g. Toyota Tacoma) and easily crests into the $8-10k range if one's going all out. What you do lose with those setups is street-friendly anti-roll bar settings/configurations - those suspensions have lots of travel and are very smooth, but expect the vehicle to be oversteering in turns. On pavement with no wheelspin that means lots of body roll in corners that can and will help you flip the truck over if you're not very careful. Adding track width and those sorts of games can mitigate the rollover risk but don't change the body roll problem.

Some folks make 2wd trucks into lowered cruisers sorts of vehicles and that's just a different thing. As a child of the early 80's I think I caught the tail end of that era with lowered trucks and minitrucks and such. I love the Ford Lightning and similar hot rod trucks and I love seeing single cab shortbed trucks with lots of horsepower. I think that trend from 'back in the day' is a lot cooler than today's trend of pointlessly over-lifted diesels with rubber-band knobby tires on chrome 24's and neon underglow.

BehindBlueI's
08-18-2020, 04:24 PM
They aren't particularly rough, especially on pavement. .

It's not about being rough. Heavy + higher center of gravity + soft suspension allowing body roll so more shifting of weight = more tippiness. My Camaro has an adjustable suspension. It lowers the car roughly 1", but each corner can be set for stiffness independently. Drag settings don't handle like track settings but you aren't turning a lot while drag racing (unless you really screw it up...) and aren't launching from a start much on track (unless you're really screwing it up...). No such thing as having it all.

(fun side note, one of the settings comes with alignment spec recommendations and the warning: "These settings eat tires but your car turns yesterday."

DamonL
08-18-2020, 04:53 PM
I think they should be comparing the TRX to a Roush F150 and not the Raptor.

https://www.autoweek.com/drives/a33005740/2020-roush-f-150-drive/

11B10
08-18-2020, 06:42 PM
Most of the options take less then 5 minutes to install, and some just plug in to the diagnostic port (although they tend to be more pricey). If you can plug in a lamp you can install one. As far as warranty, it's nothing to remove one but for it to affect the warranty they have to prove the part caused the problem. You can't just summarily wipe out a warranty because of a modification. Changing my radio to an aftermarket one doesn't affect my brake caliper cracking, etc.

I get the appeal on a hybrid where the electric motor is going to get the vehicle rolling again anyway and start the gas motor in the process if required. On an all gas vehicle, start/stop adds wear and tear, reduces battery life, etc. I don't want it.


BBI - thanks for the education on the obviously new & improved after market bypasses - I did not know they were that easy. Like many here at pf, I've put many years and labor into things automotive and I have yet to meet anyone who has spent their lives working on automobiles, who thinks start/stop is a good thing. As you said, the increased wear & tear on anything related to the starting system is obvious. What isn't so obvious is how all that will be offset by the huge gas savings? Where IS that damn sarcasm button? Wait - I just thought of the people who might think this is a good thing - anyone building starters and selling batteries. Also, those making flywheels (on manuals) and flex plates on automatics.

rd62
08-18-2020, 06:59 PM
I tried to take a middle of the road approach to suspension in my Tacoma. When I hit 100k miles last year, I updated the shocks with Fox 2.5's front, 2.0 remote reservoir rears, new front coil springs, a multispring add a leaf in the rear, and Super bumps from Wheeler's off-road. Gained about an inch and a half in height and really i.proved the ride particularly on the rutted and pot holed stretches of interstate.

I won't be bombing Baja, but interstates and local rain washboarded dirt roads are much more comfortable.

I can appreciate a better shock and spring setup, but don't need Baja capabilities or race truck aesthetics.

Greg
08-18-2020, 07:01 PM
Given how much telemetry is showing up in cars and trucks these days, and the fact that some cars now come with privacy statements to alert you to how much data they’re collecting about you, the way you drive, where you drive, the auto makers are going to sell it.

I would think anything with 700 hp means your insurance is screwed when Dodge sells your info to Allstate.

RevolverRob
08-18-2020, 08:37 PM
Suspension mods to trucks are one of the most ham-fisted industries out there. The overwhelming majority of aftermarket options add height and make everything else worse. Doing that is relatively cheap so it's common.

The kind of proper baja suspension setup you're talking about starts around $5k for a really well supported vehicle (e.g. Toyota Tacoma) and easily crests into the $8-10k range if one's going all out. What you do lose with those setups is street-friendly anti-roll bar settings/configurations - those suspensions have lots of travel and are very smooth, but expect the vehicle to be oversteering in turns. On pavement with no wheelspin that means lots of body roll in corners that can and will help you flip the truck over if you're not very careful. Adding track width and those sorts of games can mitigate the rollover risk but don't change the body roll problem.

Some folks make 2wd trucks into lowered cruisers sorts of vehicles and that's just a different thing. As a child of the early 80's I think I caught the tail end of that era with lowered trucks and minitrucks and such. I love the Ford Lightning and similar hot rod trucks and I love seeing single cab shortbed trucks with lots of horsepower. I think that trend from 'back in the day' is a lot cooler than today's trend of pointlessly over-lifted diesels with rubber-band knobby tires on chrome 24's and neon underglow.

I love them too, but I don't really think they make the most sense, except setup to go in a straight line.

The 4x4 craze starting with Taco Pre-Runners and going through to the TRX - at least maintain some of the truck utility in ways the lowered trucks can't. Besides the disturbing fact that Rob_S' Ram probably has more horsepower today than anything besides a 2nd Gen Lightning or SRT10.

Anyways, who knows maybe the ball will bounce back towards standard cab shortbeds, but I doubt it. Gas prices, 'Rona, a whole generation growing up with a shit Tesla made out of ten thousand Chinese-slave labor made parts as their dream car...

I just made myself sad.

Bratch
08-18-2020, 08:41 PM
The only thing that sucks about having something truly setup for off-road vs. on-road is tire choice. Fortunately, the all-terrain tire segment has come A LONG way in the past decade. The Pirelli Scorpions I have on my FJ right now are as quiet as the Michelin Defenders I have on the wife's car. The ride is a bit harsher, due to having LT instead of Ps, but otherwise, it's a very nice ride. I mean, I just drove 2200 miles in a few days, 1100 of it pulling an extra 3000 pounds of car and trailer, no complaints from the truck (the UHaul trailer was a pain in the ass, but whatever).

I have BFG KO2s on my Raptor and TJ they are great for a predominant street vehicle. No whine and smooth ride. Even with the top off on the Jeep there is no tire noise.

rob_s
08-19-2020, 04:25 AM
I get the appeal on a hybrid where the electric motor is going to get the vehicle rolling again anyway and start the gas motor in the process if required. On an all gas vehicle, start/stop adds wear and tear, reduces battery life, etc. I don't want it.

Obviously with the new TRX and a “new” f150, there’s lots of predictions on what the next Raptor will be like. One of those theories is that it gets a hot-rodded version of the hybrid system going into the new F150. Will probably piss a lot of people off, but then so did the turbo v6 in the current one vs the v8 in the previous one. Personally I think it’s damn interesting. Some have even suggested the new Raptor get the full-electric from ford’s Mach e which I think is a bit much.

I was never interested in hybrids until I drove a Volvo v90 t8 in Norway. If I could get that car here and didn’t live in the subrurals it would almost certainly be my daily driver. Only trouble would be, wife wants one too and I don’t want us both having the same car or her fighting me for mine!

Jakus
08-23-2020, 05:18 PM
Looks like Ford may be preparing to respond in kind with the supercharged V8 out of the Shelby GT500.

https://carbuzz.com/news/2021-ford-f-150-raptor-coming-with-over-700-hp

When markets drive competition, consumers win.

corneileous
08-23-2020, 07:28 PM
I've been watching this for a while, well drooling over actually. Pricing just killed it for me, thats half a house.

I figured this thing wasn’t gonna be cheap even back when they originally started R&Ding it for the older 4th-Gen body style Ram 1500 Rebel so I already knew something like this wasn’t gonna be on my wish list, even if I did have copious amounts of money just lying around looking for something to spend it on because something for what that truck was built for, I think it’d be much better off built rather than bought from a factory.


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corneileous
08-23-2020, 07:33 PM
Same. If Dodge (excuse me, RAM) would do a Lil' Red Express version as a street/highway cruiser that'd be slick. Or Chevy could revive the 454 SS, which kind of sucked in the execution in the day but was a sweet concept. I like the TRX but I'll never do any baja racing type stuff and don't need or want all the high tech off road whiz-bangery. If someone made something that combined my Ram and Camaro into one vehicle, (El Camino doesn't count...) I'd look pretty seriously at it. This is too much money for capability I don't want at the expense of what I do want.

I've been kicking around test driving a Trackhawk or even one of the BMW sport SUV offerings, but so far I'm just happy with what I've got.

Since the popularity is so high in trucks, I’m surprised Ram didn’t do this sooner with just another street truck to kinda rekindle what they started with the SRT-10 Ram.


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rob_s
08-24-2020, 04:59 AM
I figured this thing wasn’t gonna be cheap even back when they originally started R&Ding it for the older 4th-Gen body style Ram 1500 Rebel so I already knew something like this wasn’t gonna be on my wish list, even if I did have copious amounts of money just lying around looking for something to spend it on because something for what that truck was built for, I think it’d be much better off built rather than bought from a factory.

Built vs buy raises and interesting question.

Is it even possible to get a street-oriented pickup built today for under the $70k street price of the TRX? Is Roush or Steeda or someone still doing waranteed builds on Ford products?

Steeda is local-ish to me. I once approached them about building a Lightning on a 4-door F150. They were up for it, and had I started with a pretty base level F150 my recollection is that I’d be into the thing for about the same price as a factory Lightning at the time. I think this would have been around 2001.

Given how badly I want AWD for SE FL roads, particularly with higher HP on wet roads, that may be the limiting factor.

corneileous
08-24-2020, 08:24 AM
Built vs buy raises and interesting question.

Is it even possible to get a street-oriented pickup built today for under the $70k street price of the TRX? Is Roush or Steeda or someone still doing waranteed builds on Ford products?

Steeda is local-ish to me. I once approached them about building a Lightning on a 4-door F150. They were up for it, and had I started with a pretty base level F150 my recollection is that I’d be into the thing for about the same price as a factory Lightning at the time. I think this would have been around 2001.

Given how badly I want AWD for SE FL roads, particularly with higher HP on wet roads, that may be the limiting factor.

Well sure, depending on how good of an end product you want, building something yourself will most likely cost way more than a factory-built vehicle will ever dream of. But as far as like that Shelby f one-fitty and the Roush f one-fitty, I don’t know if those come with a factory warranty or not but as far as like the Hennessy Performance Demon and Trailhawk for example- I highly doubt those 1000hp recreations come with any kind of warranty. Maybe a little one from Hennessy but that’s it.

But I only brought up built versus factory because even with the raptor for example; that’s still a factory vehicle that yeah, you may be able to do a lot more with that than you would with a stock F150 but look around on the Internet- there’s people who try to do some really crazy things with the Raptors and end up practically just destroying them because they’re still a factory vehicle. And even the Demon; that’s a bad ass car right from the factory but there’s people who are taking these things to the track every weekend and they’re starting to blow out rear differentials. Well, you could be a smart ass like some people and say “awe, that’s cuz it’s a Dodge we’re talkin’” but you think about it ; if you’re putting 800+hp out like through pretty much the factory rear ended, the is Dodge really gonna spend a whole lot of time on making a true blue bullet proof rear end, or are they just gonna build it strong enough for somebody who may on occasion take a stock car like this to the track?

That’s why I would think that if you’re wanting a vehicle to do what the demon was made to do; or what the TRX was made to do, or even what the raptor was made to do, that you’d be better off building it yourself. Even these guys that are into the extreme rock crawling or rock racing; they don’t buy their shit at a factory, they will build it themselves; or if they do buy at a factory, it’s a special factory that specializes in making those kinds of vehicles.


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Nephrology
08-24-2020, 08:32 AM
That’s why I would think that if you’re wanting a vehicle to do what the demon was made to do; or what the TRX was made to do, or even what the raptor was made to do, that you’d be better off building it yourself. Even these guys that are into the extreme rock crawling or rock racing; they don’t buy their shit at a factory, they will build it themselves; or if they do buy at a factory, it’s a special factory that specializes in making those kinds of vehicles.


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I would think particularly for a dedicated offroad trail vehicle there would be very little sense in buying a new base vehicle given that it seems like body damage is part of the hobby.

corneileous
08-24-2020, 08:55 AM
I would think particularly for a dedicated offroad trail vehicle there would be very little sense in buying a new base vehicle given that it seems like body damage is part of the hobby.

That’s true. I know back in the day the guys that I hung out with up in southwestern Colorado that had the all the jeeps and the rock rigs that go play up in the mountains with them and every year they would take them up to Moab for the annual Easter Safari, they didn’t get upset if they broke something; they’d just figured that if they break something that that wasn’t a strong enough part/piece t begin with so now its a project to make it stronger.

But I would imagine that on a stock, mass-produced vehicle whether it’s the demon, the raptor, the TRX ram or even possibly that new bronco that if you take them out and use them for the way that they were supposedly “intended”, you’re gonna be spending a lot of time fixing a lot of broken parts.


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Darth_Uno
08-24-2020, 09:18 AM
..... they didn’t get upset if they broke something; they’d just figured that if they break something that that wasn’t a strong enough part/piece t begin with so now its a project to make it stronger.



My wife is on some 4runner groups and she's always showing me pictures of guys that get new 4runners, spend even more money upgrading them (and the serious guys actually do have functional upgrades), take them out and don't seem to mind getting parts scratched, damaged, or ripped clean off.

On a smaller scale, if I run my gun so hard it has a catastrophic failure I don't say "Oh no, my new gun", it just becomes a project to investigate and upgrade.


But I would imagine that on a stock, mass-produced vehicle whether it’s the demon, the raptor, the TRX ram or even possibly that new bronco that if you take them out and use them for the way that they were supposedly “intended”, you’re gonna be spending a lot of time fixing a lot of broken parts.


I'm sure they're more capable than the stock models...but 90% of these "off-road" models aren't seeing anything tougher than a gravel parking lot. Which is fine. If I had the money I'd be all over that Ram. Do I need all that off-road stuff? No. Do I need 700 hp? Absolutely not. It's cool as shit though, and people who think that too is the target market.

corneileous
08-24-2020, 02:38 PM
My wife is on some 4runner groups and she's always showing me pictures of guys that get new 4runners, spend even more money upgrading them (and the serious guys actually do have functional upgrades), take them out and don't seem to mind getting parts scratched, damaged, or ripped clean off.

On a smaller scale, if I run my gun so hard it has a catastrophic failure I don't say "Oh no, my new gun", it just becomes a project to investigate and upgrade.


I'm sure they're more capable than the stock models...but 90% of these "off-road" models aren't seeing anything tougher than a gravel parking lot. Which is fine. If I had the money I'd be all over that Ram. Do I need all that off-road stuff? No. Do I need 700 hp? Absolutely not. It's cool as shit though, and people who think that too is the target market.

It’s funny that the limited edition launch package that they’re only gonna make 702 of sold out within 3 hours the day they revealed it. lol. At 96 grand a pop, that’s almost 70 million....


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JRB
08-25-2020, 09:43 AM
Well sure, depending on how good of an end product you want, building something yourself will most likely cost way more than a factory-built vehicle will ever dream of. But as far as like that Shelby f one-fitty and the Roush f one-fitty, I don’t know if those come with a factory warranty or not but as far as like the Hennessy Performance Demon and Trailhawk for example- I highly doubt those 1000hp recreations come with any kind of warranty. Maybe a little one from Hennessy but that’s it.

But I only brought up built versus factory because even with the raptor for example; that’s still a factory vehicle that yeah, you may be able to do a lot more with that than you would with a stock F150 but look around on the Internet- there’s people who try to do some really crazy things with the Raptors and end up practically just destroying them because they’re still a factory vehicle. And even the Demon; that’s a bad ass car right from the factory but there’s people who are taking these things to the track every weekend and they’re starting to blow out rear differentials. Well, you could be a smart ass like some people and say “awe, that’s cuz it’s a Dodge we’re talkin’” but you think about it ; if you’re putting 800+hp out like through pretty much the factory rear ended, the is Dodge really gonna spend a whole lot of time on making a true blue bullet proof rear end, or are they just gonna build it strong enough for somebody who may on occasion take a stock car like this to the track?

That’s why I would think that if you’re wanting a vehicle to do what the demon was made to do; or what the TRX was made to do, or even what the raptor was made to do, that you’d be better off building it yourself. Even these guys that are into the extreme rock crawling or rock racing; they don’t buy their shit at a factory, they will build it themselves; or if they do buy at a factory, it’s a special factory that specializes in making those kinds of vehicles.


-Warranties on performance vehicles might as well not be warranties. Dealerships will find every possible reason to avoid warranty replacements of powertrain components up to and including combing social media to see if you've taken it to a drag strip or off of any 'sweet jumps'. Depending on your relationship with that dealership and specifically your service advisor, they might cover your Demon's differential if you've bought 6 other Dodges there. But if they pull it into the shop, and it doesn't have the original tires? Warranty claim rejected. Check the PCM to see the re-write count and it shows you've probably tuned it? Warranty claim rejected, etc.

-Hennessy is a crook and nothing coming out of that shop is special, except for the fact that he's marketed himself excellently to the car rags and that inertia carries onward to this day. That company has repeatedly restructured to avoid A LOT of lawsuits. For the sake of brevity, I'll leave it at that.

-"Bullet proof": there is absolutely no such thing. The thresholds for mechanical failure just keep getting higher.
The differential in the Dodge Hellcats and Demon is stronger than anything that's ever ended up under a Mustang or Chevy Camaro. That's because it's a factory car weighing as much as a truck used to and making 625-725hp at the wheels. Add some aftermarket ridiculously sticky tires like Toyo R888's or M&H drag radials - something is going to break eventually. Dodge sidestepped the differential problems for the most part with their OE tire selection on the Hellcats, which would permit some smokey burnouts and spin some (or a lot, depending on conditions) instead of dead hooking and breaking shit. The Demon added enough HP (easily available to any Hellcat willing to change SC pulleys and remap the PCM) that the OE Pirellis were simply unacceptable so the OE tire on the Demon is much stickier. Hence, differential issues.

The beefiest and strongest differential anyone could possibly make is still breakable with the kind of HP we can make these days and the traction available with modern tires on a VHT prepped track surface. This is why you'll see warranty claims rejected if you have your Demon in the shop for a new diff under warranty and it's got some sticky R888R's on the back wheels.

Bottom line, modern vehicles are astonishingly reliable with a breathtaking amount of HP. But one would be silly to think that any factory 700hp or 800hp vehicle has the same level of reliability one could expect from, say, a stock Toyota Tundra.
More weight + More HP + More abuse = More broken stuff. That will never change.

corneileous
08-25-2020, 10:15 AM
-Warranties on performance vehicles might as well not be warranties. Dealerships will find every possible reason to avoid warranty replacements of powertrain components up to and including combing social media to see if you've taken it to a drag strip or off of any 'sweet jumps'. Depending on your relationship with that dealership and specifically your service advisor, they might cover your Demon's differential if you've bought 6 other Dodges there. But if they pull it into the shop, and it doesn't have the original tires? Warranty claim rejected. Check the PCM to see the re-write count and it shows you've probably tuned it? Warranty claim rejected, etc.

-Hennessy is a crook and nothing coming out of that shop is special, except for the fact that he's marketed himself excellently to the car rags and that inertia carries onward to this day. That company has repeatedly restructured to avoid A LOT of lawsuits. For the sake of brevity, I'll leave it at that.

-"Bullet proof": there is absolutely no such thing. The thresholds for mechanical failure just keep getting higher.
The differential in the Dodge Hellcats and Demon is stronger than anything that's ever ended up under a Mustang or Chevy Camaro. That's because it's a factory car weighing as much as a truck used to and making 625-725hp at the wheels. Add some aftermarket ridiculously sticky tires like Toyo R888's or M&H drag radials - something is going to break eventually. Dodge sidestepped the differential problems for the most part with their OE tire selection on the Hellcats, which would permit some smokey burnouts and spin some (or a lot, depending on conditions) instead of dead hooking and breaking shit. The Demon added enough HP (easily available to any Hellcat willing to change SC pulleys and remap the PCM) that the OE Pirellis were simply unacceptable so the OE tire on the Demon is much stickier. Hence, differential issues.

The beefiest and strongest differential anyone could possibly make is still breakable with the kind of HP we can make these days and the traction available with modern tires on a VHT prepped track surface. This is why you'll see warranty claims rejected if you have your Demon in the shop for a new diff under warranty and it's got some sticky R888R's on the back wheels.

Bottom line, modern vehicles are astonishingly reliable with a breathtaking amount of HP. But one would be silly to think that any factory 700hp or 800hp vehicle has the same level of reliability one could expect from, say, a stock Toyota Tundra.
More weight + More HP + More abuse = More broken stuff. That will never change.

Interesting post concerning warranties on these kinds of vehicles. I would think that even though one could argue that they’re just “using” the vehicle in which it was designed, taking the Demon for example, it was designed as a factory drag car; I mean after all, you could order it with the Demon crate that gave you a different PCM for full, unlocked power on race gas and I believe a set of drag slicks with the skinny’s up front but I would think getting any kind of warranty claims to get approved on a car like that even if you were using it in which it was designed, would be more trouble that’ll it’s worth that would require a very good, and a very expensive lawyer.

But those R888R drag slicks you’re talkin; I’m not all that knowledgeable in drag racing to know stuff like that but are those not the same as the drag slicks you can get from Mopar? I’m just curious. I don’t mean to sound naive but to me a drag slick is a drag slick made to grip.... hard. Lol.

As far as a bullet proof rear diff, I know nothing is “bullet proof”, even dipping into the aftermarket with that kind of power, I just thought that maybe Dodge woulda built a special rear end that would be a lot more capable for a car like that since I would think anybody who buys a factory drag car, is probably gonna be taking it to a strip. I dunno.

But yeah, if you’ve added your own custom tune, I could see that as a warranty-rejection, even if you tried to use the Magnussen Moss act as protection but a custom tune is straight up moving out of the factory realm.

But you know, maybe this is just me but if you’ve truly got the money to buy a $130,000 Demon, a $100,000+ TRX or an $80,000 or so Raptor and you plan to use it as it was implied that if you break something in the process, that you’re probably not going to be taking it back to the dealer asking to get parts fixed/replaced under the manufacturer’s dime. Some may try, some may be successful as you said, if you’ve bought many vehicles from them but if that was me, the dealer is the last place I’d be going because, if I can afford something like that, I can afford much better parts anyways; because if the vehicle is all you can afford, you’re better off not buying one or much less, using it that way if you want a snowball’s chance at getting warranty to pay for something.


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JRB
08-25-2020, 11:35 AM
Interesting post concerning warranties on these kinds of vehicles. I would think that even though one could argue that they’re just “using” the vehicle in which it was designed, taking the Demon for example, it was designed as a factory drag car; I mean after all, you could order it with the Demon crate that gave you a different PCM for full, unlocked power on race gas and I believe a set of drag slicks with the skinny’s up front but I would think getting any kind of warranty claims to get approved on a car like that even if you were using it in which it was designed, would be more trouble that’ll it’s worth that would require a very good, and a very expensive lawyer.

But those R888R drag slicks you’re talkin; I’m not all that knowledgeable in drag racing to know stuff like that but are those not the same as the drag slicks you can get from Mopar? I’m just curious. I don’t mean to sound naive but to me a drag slick is a drag slick made to grip.... hard. Lol.

As far as a bullet proof rear diff, I know nothing is “bullet proof”, even dipping into the aftermarket with that kind of power, I just thought that maybe Dodge woulda built a special rear end that would be a lot more capable for a car like that since I would think anybody who buys a factory drag car, is probably gonna be taking it to a strip. I dunno.

But yeah, if you’ve added your own custom tune, I could see that as a warranty-rejection, even if you tried to use the Magnussen Moss act as protection but a custom tune is straight up moving out of the factory realm.

But you know, maybe this is just me but if you’ve truly got the money to buy a $130,000 Demon, a $100,000+ TRX or an $80,000 or so Raptor and you plan to use it as it was implied that if you break something in the process, that you’re probably not going to be taking it back to the dealer asking to get parts fixed/replaced under the manufacturer’s dime. Some may try, some may be successful as you said, if you’ve bought many vehicles from them but if that was me, the dealer is the last place I’d be going because, if I can afford something like that, I can afford much better parts anyways; because if the vehicle is all you can afford, you’re better off not buying one or much less, using it that way if you want a snowball’s chance at getting warranty to pay for something.

There's always a 'Warranty'. I'm simply explaining how it works in real-life practice for the most part. Sure, you can be a stick in the mud and go through the game with a dealer and threaten to talk a bunch of smack online etc. Having worked in four performance shops and been the shop foreman of the largest one in my state before leaving the industry, I think anyone who expects warranty coverage after using a vehicle in a motorsport event is completely unreasonable. But people will try to game it and lie to dealerships in an effort to save themselves the thousands of dollars they'd otherwise have to spend for breaking shit doing hot rod stuff.

I also think it's foolish at best and insanity at worst for an OEM to even nudge or hint at warranty coverage for motorsport use, too. For the most part, the real language of the warranty is very good about excluding that sort of thing but what the warranty says in the fine print and what the salesman says while making the sale are routinely two very different things.

The Demon is an interesting situation because similar 'Cobra Jet' Mustangs and 'COPO' Camaros were sold as straight-up race cars without any warranty or any way to title them or legally drive them on the street. The Demon was VIN'd and sold as a passenger car with a bunch of motorsport sort of features and accessories, but it's sold as a passenger car and ostensibly warrantied for use as a passenger car in accordance with prevailing rules laws etc including speed limits. Once used for a motorsport purpose they've got an absolutely legal leg to stand on to deny warranty coverage as such use is almost always excluded in the fine print. That said, I haven't read the warranty fine print on a Demon but I would be astonished if it didn't look just like a regular Challenger R/T only with a much smaller mileage number and a much shorter coverage period.
I am sure that the Ram Rebel TRX will get the same caveats in the warranty and that we'll see a lot of broken ones with voided warranties from people doing stupid stuff.

I can't remember for sure but I believe the Dodge Demon came on Nitto NT05R drag radials as OE, which is a DOT approved drag radial. But Dodge quickly offered a more 'street friendly' tire for folks who actually intended to drive their Demon on the street. With drag radials like those NT05R's or a soft sticky road race/supercar tire like an R888, there's basically no softness or damping in the sidewall that one finds in a bias-ply drag slick like a Mickey Thompson ET drag, so there's a ton of sticky traction with basically zero wrinkle-wall damping effect, and the ensuing driveline shock breaks stuff much more readily.

Between drag radials, wheelhop, a VHT prepped drag strip, and a refusal to lift off the gas, you can break pretty much any differential on the planet with 400hp or so. The HP plays a component of course but it's the driveline shock that really kills things, and repeated hammering from a 'perfect storm' like wheelhop will seal the deal on basically any configuration you can build.
Mix in a proper 3-pedal manual trans and you've got an ideal recipe for scattered parts. I firmly believe that the new GT500 Mustang, Dodge Demon, and new BMW"Toyota Supra" were sold as automatic-trans-only specifically because of the additional powertrain control and reduced damage risk. A nanny-loaded PCM running an auto trans will see less driveline failure warranty claims than a 3-pedal manual that allows someone to bang the motor off the rev limiter and dump the clutch. I'm sure Ford, GM, etc all have data on warranty claims vs car configuration and I would be surprised if manual trans cars didn't have a significantly higher warranty claim rate for transmission/powertrain issues vs otherwise identically configured auto trans cars.

There's a delicate balance between having enough tire for the HP you're making in a street car, and having 'too much' tire at a drag strip. Generally for pure drag strip duty you want a wrinklewall ET drag or similar because it'll let you hook up without beating the driveline as much. But those bias ply tires are floaty and unstable compared to radials and are totally inappropriate for street driving in most cases.
Meanwhile, the drag radials or R888 sorts of tires are stable at very high speeds and have enough grip to safely explore your HP on a highway on-ramp, but are exactly the wrong sort of thing for a full weight street car on a prepped drag surface if you want driveline longevity. Dodge and other makers have been doing a hell of a job building some very strong parts that'll survive that scenario despite the cards stacked against it - but again, it takes just one bad situation to break expensive stuff.

corneileous
08-25-2020, 11:52 AM
There's always a 'Warranty'. I'm simply explaining how it works in real-life practice for the most part. Sure, you can be a stick in the mud and go through the game with a dealer and threaten to talk a bunch of smack online etc. Having worked in four performance shops and been the shop foreman of the largest one in my state before leaving the industry, I think anyone who expects warranty coverage after using a vehicle in a motorsport event is completely unreasonable. But people will try to game it and lie to dealerships in an effort to save themselves the thousands of dollars they'd otherwise have to spend for breaking shit doing hot rod stuff.

I also think it's foolish at best and insanity at worst for an OEM to even nudge or hint at warranty coverage for motorsport use, too. For the most part, the real language of the warranty is very good about excluding that sort of thing but what the warranty says in the fine print and what the salesman says while making the sale are routinely two very different things.

The Demon is an interesting situation because similar 'Cobra Jet' Mustangs and 'COPO' Camaros were sold as straight-up race cars without any warranty or any way to title them or legally drive them on the street. The Demon was VIN'd and sold as a passenger car with a bunch of motorsport sort of features and accessories, but it's sold as a passenger car and ostensibly warrantied for use as a passenger car in accordance with prevailing rules laws etc including speed limits. Once used for a motorsport purpose they've got an absolutely legal leg to stand on to deny warranty coverage as such use is almost always excluded in the fine print. That said, I haven't read the warranty fine print on a Demon but I would be astonished if it didn't look just like a regular Challenger R/T only with a much smaller mileage number and a much shorter coverage period.
I am sure that the Ram Rebel TRX will get the same caveats in the warranty and that we'll see a lot of broken ones with voided warranties from people doing stupid stuff.

I can't remember for sure but I believe the Dodge Demon came on Nitto NT05R drag radials as OE, which is a DOT approved drag radial. But Dodge quickly offered a more 'street friendly' tire for folks who actually intended to drive their Demon on the street. With drag radials like those NT05R's or a soft sticky road race/supercar tire like an R888, there's basically no softness or damping in the sidewall that one finds in a bias-ply drag slick like a Mickey Thompson ET drag, so there's a ton of sticky traction with basically zero wrinkle-wall damping effect, and the ensuing driveline shock breaks stuff much more readily.

Between drag radials, wheelhop, a VHT prepped drag strip, and a refusal to lift off the gas, you can break pretty much any differential on the planet with 400hp or so. The HP plays a component of course but it's the driveline shock that really kills things, and repeated hammering from a 'perfect storm' like wheelhop will seal the deal on basically any configuration you can build.
Mix in a proper 3-pedal manual trans and you've got an ideal recipe for scattered parts. I firmly believe that the new GT500 Mustang, Dodge Demon, and new BMW"Toyota Supra" were sold as automatic-trans-only specifically because of the additional powertrain control and reduced damage risk. A nanny-loaded PCM running an auto trans will see less driveline failure warranty claims than a 3-pedal manual that allows someone to bang the motor off the rev limiter and dump the clutch. I'm sure Ford, GM, etc all have data on warranty claims vs car configuration and I would be surprised if manual trans cars didn't have a significantly higher warranty claim rate for transmission/powertrain issues vs otherwise identically configured auto trans cars.

There's a delicate balance between having enough tire for the HP you're making in a street car, and having 'too much' tire at a drag strip. Generally for pure drag strip duty you want a wrinklewall ET drag or similar because it'll let you hook up without beating the driveline as much. But those bias ply tires are floaty and unstable compared to radials and are totally inappropriate for street driving in most cases.
Meanwhile, the drag radials or R888 sorts of tires are stable at very high speeds and have enough grip to safely explore your HP on a highway on-ramp, but are exactly the wrong sort of thing for a full weight street car on a prepped drag surface if you want driveline longevity. Dodge and other makers have been doing a hell of a job building some very strong parts that'll survive that scenario despite the cards stacked against it - but again, it takes just one bad situation to break expensive stuff.

So I guess it’s safe to say that all these blown rear diffs I’ve heard about on the Demons are just from inexperienced people with money who don’t know what they’re doing?...lol.

I dunno, when I first heard about that, I just figured that this was due to a factory part showing it’s true colors. Thank you for explaining all that, really interesting information.


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JRB
08-25-2020, 12:03 PM
So I guess it’s safe to say that all these blown rear diffs I’ve heard about on the Demons are just from inexperienced people with money who don’t know what they’re doing?...lol.

I dunno, when I first heard about that, I just figured that this was due to a factory part showing it’s true colors. Thank you for explaining all that, really interesting information.

More likely they know exactly what they're doing, and they're using the public shame approach to get Dodge to pick up the tab for them.

There are ways to get around the write count on Dodge PCM's and with Hellcats and Demons there's a lot of HP 'on the table' with PCM tuning and some basic bolt ons like pullies and headers. Having personally built or overseen the build of several early Hellcats, I know the powertrain and engine is solid as high as you can spin that factory blower (high 800's-low 900's at the rear wheels IME) But it's a heavy ass car with a shitload of power and if you want to do stoplight digs or straight up drag racing on a prepped surface - drag radials are the wrong answer for all the reasons I stated above.

corneileous
08-25-2020, 12:39 PM
More likely they know exactly what they're doing, and they're using the public shame approach to get Dodge to pick up the tab for them.

There are ways to get around the write count on Dodge PCM's and with Hellcats and Demons there's a lot of HP 'on the table' with PCM tuning and some basic bolt ons like pullies and headers. Having personally built or overseen the build of several early Hellcats, I know the powertrain and engine is solid as high as you can spin that factory blower (high 800's-low 900's at the rear wheels IME) But it's a heavy ass car with a shitload of power and if you want to do stoplight digs or straight up drag racing on a prepped surface - drag radials are the wrong answer for all the reasons I stated above.

I dunno, like I said, if it were me and if I had enough dough lying around like that to spend on and easily afford a car like that, I’d be looking into the aftermarket if I was gonna get that serious in running that car repeatedly down a drag strip. I mean, if top fuel drag tires at nearly a grand a piece that are manufactured to be only good for what, 8 to 10 runs can be blown to shreds at any given time like that or clutch that’s built strong enough to withstand that kinda power that pretty much has to be replaced after every run can fail whenever, nothing’s invincible, that’s for sure.

I sure hope the TRX lives up to the hype but as I’m sure it’s been said a few times, how many people are actually gonna buy this thing to go run it a hundred miles an hour through the desert?...lol.


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rob_s
09-08-2020, 08:45 AM
I wouldn't mind seeing this somewhere between the factory price and performance and the Shelby price and performance.
https://www.shelby.com/Vehicles/F-150-Super-Snake

Say maybe $65k, maybe instead of adding 375HP add something like 150 HP, presumably need less in the way of beefing up the tranny etc. as well.

rob_s
11-18-2020, 06:24 AM
According to this review, the F-150 Limited gets the ecoboost from the Raptor but without all the weight of the off-road mods it does 0-60 in 5.1 seconds, making it the second-fastest production truck they’ve ever tested behind the Ram with the viper engine...
https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a25410494/2019-ford-f-150-limited-by-the-numbers/

I’m assuming that still holds true for the 2021, although at $70k starting price it almost makes sense to just get the TRX and the TRX is now even faster still, besting even the SRT-10. Admittedly by the time you add all the creature comforts to the TRX that come standard on the f150 Limited you’re well past $80k.

All of this has me curious enough to see what’s out there in the way of a 2019 Limited. Given the 2021 f150 re-design I’m hoping there’s some deals to be had on old-busted. Presumably there may even be a 2020 with the same specs as the 2019 sitting on a lot, unloved and in-wanted...

BehindBlueI's
11-18-2020, 08:49 AM
I’m assuming that still holds true for the 2021, although at $70k starting price it almost makes sense to just get...

If street speed is the metric, a 5.0 Coyote equipped F-150 or 5.7 Hemi Ram, an aftermarket supercharger, and $10-$20k left over depending on trim level selected.

Such as:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IFFMDE6vUDI

rob_s
11-18-2020, 08:54 AM
For me, anyway, it either comes off the assembly line that way, or I don't want it. I'm not even really that much of a fan of the dealer-install or the Rouch, Steeda, etc. aftermarket (despite having posted about them previously).

Speaking of, check this shit out!
https://www.jeep.com/wrangler/rubicon-392.html

ranger
11-18-2020, 09:04 AM
According to this review, the F-150 Limited gets the ecoboost from the Raptor but without all the weight of the off-road mods it does 0-60 in 5.1 seconds, making it the second-fastest production truck they’ve ever tested behind the Ram with the viper engine...
https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a25410494/2019-ford-f-150-limited-by-the-numbers/

I’m assuming that still holds true for the 2021, although at $70k starting price it almost makes sense to just get the TRX and the TRX is now even faster still, besting even the SRT-10. Admittedly by the time you add all the creature comforts to the TRX that come standard on the f150 Limited you’re well past $80k.

All of this has me curious enough to see what’s out there in the way of a 2019 Limited. Given the 2021 f150 re-design I’m hoping there’s some deals to be had on old-busted. Presumably there may even be a 2020 with the same specs as the 2019 sitting on a lot, unloved and in-wanted...

I have been looking at F150 Limiteds for the "Raptor" motor without the Raptor appearance package and off road package. If I go off road i can drive slow. Was looking at a low mileage 2020 F150 Limited but have not pulled trigger. My 2015 Ram 1500 Laramie 4x4 (paid off) looks pretty good every time I look at pricing of new/near new.

BehindBlueI's
11-18-2020, 09:04 AM
For me, anyway, it either comes off the assembly line that way, or I don't want it. I'm not even really that much of a fan of the dealer-install or the Rouch, Steeda, etc. aftermarket (despite having posted about them previously).

Speaking of, check this shit out!
https://www.jeep.com/wrangler/rubicon-392.html

Yeah, that's nuts. I started a thread here a little bit ago: https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?45506-Jeep-to-release-a-392-equipped-Wrangler-Rubicon

And I don't mind aftermarket at all, although I can do less and less myself as things get more and more complicated. I have a Pedder's adjustable suspension and Katskinz leather in my Camaro, both of which are significant upgrades over the OEM pieces they replaced.

rob_s
11-18-2020, 09:35 AM
I have been looking at F150 Limiteds for the "Raptor" motor without the Raptor appearance package and off road package. If I go off road i can drive slow. Was looking at a low mileage 2020 F150 Limited but have not pulled trigger. My 2015 Ram 1500 Laramie 4x4 (paid off) looks pretty good every time I look at pricing of new/near new.

i'm in a very similar boat. 2016 RAM Sport 2wd, paid off. But, the FCA little dingleberries I was expecting about now are starting. Recently dropped $750/ea on a new fuel tank sensor and antilock brake module, and now I have a new check engine light, gas cap loose warning, and various other things that pop up on and off. Plus I need new tires. My short-term plan is to take the truck in, get an estimate for everything that needs fixing, and decide whether to apply that to a new truck instead or continue on without payments.

ranger
11-18-2020, 09:56 AM
I figure it will be my 2015 Ram 1500 Laramie 4x4 + $40 to 50000 for a similar F150, Ram, or Tundra. I just put brakes, tires, and spark plugs in my ram - all wear items for maintenance. I have this nagging fear that the Ram will start having issues but for $40-50k I could buy another new Subaru Outback. I am retiring soon and hopefully headed back to Sporting Clays on a weekly basis so will need capability to pull trailer with golf cart.

I may sell my primer stash and buy a Raptor :)

rob_s
11-18-2020, 10:22 AM
haha also similar boat re: towing cart for clays! I was close, very close, to going with a Volvo XC60 T8 but the limited towing capacity and the fact that nobody could tell me if it would get me legally in the HOV lane have me looking to either stay with a pickup or go with a 2021 Durango.

I'm interested to see what the 2022 Raptor looks like, and if they do something cool with their new hybrid engine, and then stick it in the Limited again...

While I won't be buying a Subaru, doing the math on the relative cost of a new truck does have me thinking "damn, I could buy a pretty decent Mustang and keep the truck!"

vcdgrips
11-18-2020, 02:20 PM
Edge of my lane- if it is dealer installed and I have the same warranty as OEM, I would be game. Otherwise, I suspect I am a hard pass given the price of admission.

BehindBlueI's
11-18-2020, 02:28 PM
While I won't be buying a Subaru, doing the math on the relative cost of a new truck does have me thinking "damn, I could buy a pretty decent Mustang and keep the truck!"

I came pretty close to saying "...and a Camaro/Mustang" instead of "and $20k" in the supercharged truck post.

There is something satisfying about a do it all vehicle, but it's an inevitable compromise. I remain happy with my Ram/Camaro SS combo.

rob_s
11-18-2020, 02:30 PM
I came pretty close to saying "...and a Camaro/Mustang" instead of "and $20k" in the supercharged truck post.

There is something satisfying about a do it all vehicle, but it's an inevitable compromise. I remain happy with my Ram/Camaro SS combo.

As I type this, there's five 12ft Trex boards sitting at my local Home Depot waiting to be picked up. I *might* get them home in the RAM with the sliding window open and the boards resting on the dash. I'll *never* get them home with a Mustang! :p

BehindBlueI's
11-18-2020, 03:00 PM
As I type this, there's five 12ft Trex boards sitting at my local Home Depot waiting to be picked up. I *might* get them home in the RAM with the sliding window open and the boards resting on the dash. I'll *never* get them home with a Mustang! :p

There are a hand full of times I wish I'd driven the other vs what I elected to drive. Stuck in a traffic jam one curb hop away from freedom but in the Camaro, short passing zones and a semi but in the Ram. I get the appeal of a "do it all" vehicle. I just can't find anything that isn't such a compromise I'm willing to consolidate to it yet.

deputyG23
11-18-2020, 03:21 PM
I just can't get over dropping $75k-80k on a truck. I would need to be making a very healthy salary, carry little or no debt, and have a lot of savings/investments before I splurge that hard on a depreciating asset.

If those things were true, hell yeah, but the puritan upbringing of mine just can't see it in my mind's eye.
Agreed. Those things cost more than my first house we built in the mid '80s. Our '08 Chrysler minivan is still soldiering on for traveling and light hauling duty with 170K on the clock and, of course, paid for. My irrational vehicle desire is either a CPO three or four year old E class or GLE Mercedes-Benz. Might do that for my retirement present whenever that may occur.

rob_s
12-04-2020, 05:15 AM
Lots of RAM discounts going on right now. A limited with a $74k msrp is listed online for $58k, built pretty much exactly how I want it. I haven’t checked, but I’m Assuming these discounts don’t apply to the TRX...
https://www.crystalbrooksville.com/new/Ram/2021-Ram-1500-Brooksville,+FL-1d193eda0a0e0a6b1475e2621ce7540c.htm

LittleLebowski
02-01-2021, 11:25 AM
New Raptor will be unveiled Feb 3rd. 5.2l V8 with 760HP.

1355204245939752968?s=21

BehindBlueI's
01-09-2022, 10:05 AM
RAM seems to be having no issue selling the TRX, MSRP is going up $3k for the new model year with no changes to the vehicle.

fixer
01-09-2022, 10:53 AM
Ram and Ford have created an entirely new category of trucks--the Super Truck.

Kudos to them.

I'm not ever going to be in market for a $100,000 pick up but the American in me says this shit is cool as hell.

Bio
01-09-2022, 02:15 PM
Ram and Ford have created an entirely new category of trucks--the Super Truck.

Kudos to them.

I'm not ever going to be in market for a $100,000 pick up but the American in me says this shit is cool as hell.

Yeah, if I had some dunes out back to race around on, I might at least give them a look...

They are pretty neat, though.