Match attendance and ammo shortages

[Amp]

Have you seen a decrease in attendance at matches in your area? The numbers so far in Eastern NC are still at pre-shortage levels which is surprising.

[GyroF-16]

Not much drop in attendance here in CO, either. IDPA match yesterday was at capacity, and we probably had a dozen first-time shooters.
I did notice that there was more interest in picking up brass between shooters, though.

[spinmove_]

Yesterday's match was a little light, but I think that was more due to the Thunder storm that was rolling through that morning rather than lack of ammo. I will say though that if I don't find a source for some ammo soon that I'll be not attending matches as I won't have enough for them. I can't even really practice right now either due to lack of ammo.

[Amp]

Not much drop in attendance here in CO, either. IDPA match yesterday was at capacity, and we probably had a dozen first-time shooters.
I did notice that there was more interest in picking up brass between shooters, though.

We're seeing a lot of first time shooters at our IDPA matches also. There was a squad with 10 lady shooters and all were new gun owners.

[CleverNickname]

We're seeing a lot of first time shooters at our IDPA matches also. There was a squad with 10 lady shooters and all were new gun owners.
Yikes. Split the newbies up so they're in more than one squad, otherwise in my experience the squad full of newbies tends to take forever and make other squads wait, which ends up making the match take longer than it should.

Back to the OP's question, I haven't seen lower attendance at the matches I go to, but I have a feeling it'll change by October-ish.

[Duelist]

I haven’t been to a match since February.

[ST911]

Casual/recreational competitors less involved. The more committed are usually pretty dedicated reloaders and less affected. Some express being more discriminating about which matches they'll shoot.

[Norville]

Attendance at local matches is definitely down a bit. Most of the missing are the casual shooters.

Thee are even open spots for the MN section match in 2 weeks. There was a small wait list, but it is cleared.

[Artemas2]

This month is light due to 3 near by majors in a row.

In July many of the local matches are maxing attendance and the MDs were turning people away. The RO to new shooter ratio is also becoming problematic at some clubs.

[andre3k]

Attendance is down a bit for the 3-gun match I shoot monthly. The match director is letting people shoot 22LR for the pistol and rifle portions if ammo is a concern.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

[Whirlwind06]

I have plenty of powder, brass and bullets. Small pistol primers are good for now but if supply stays like it is I could see a problem by next year. Thinking of setting up glock 21 as carry optics gun. No major scoring but I have plenty of large pistol primers.

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

[1911Nut]

Three has been a bit of conversation about this at one of the clubs I shoot with.

The two primary viewpoints seem to be split between some shooters advocating reduced round counts for stages or fewer stages and other shooters who say that if they are going to prepare for a match and drive 40 miles (in some cases more) to participate in a match, they want to shoot a full match.

I'm in favor of the position advocated by the second group.

[YVK]

Goes in waves. When things got opened in May, we had a large attendance. It has declined a bit through summer months. Strong shooters show up consistently although some folks say they've a lot of work backlog from the shutdown. I presume it is a good thing.
There's a slight shift to shorter stages. Pace is controlled by notable use of harder shots. Use of IPSC targets covered in hostages and no shoots is routine. Last match had a plate rack at 80 feet. Irons shooters had a ball...

[LOKNLOD]

Last match had a plate rack at 80 feet. Irons shooters had a ball...

Well that certainly isn't a recipe for conservation of ammunition.

[YVK]

Well that certainly isn't a recipe for conservation of ammunition.


That's why my gun refused to expend ammunition in the beginning of that stage. Stupid piece of metal, it is all its fault and none of mine. I always, always make sure that the top round is chambered...

https://youtu.be/_zYef_W2Wnk

[rob_s]

Three has been a bit of conversation about this at one of the clubs I shoot with.

The two primary viewpoints seem to be split between some shooters advocating reduced round counts for stages or fewer stages and other shooters who say that if they are going to prepare for a match and drive 40 miles (in some cases more) to participate in a match, they want to shoot a full match.

I'm in favor of the position advocated by the second group.

I would be PISSED if I drove to a match just to find that round counts had gone down to appease the vocal minority. Fuck that shit.

I would say “let them shoot 22” but then the whole match would grind to a halt as the same dimwits try to clear malfunctions on their buckmark and 10/22 and undo the flap on their buckmark holster...

[LOKNLOD]

I would be PISSED if I drove to a match just to find that round counts had gone down to appease the vocal minority. Fuck that shit.

I would say “let them shoot 22” but then the whole match would grind to a halt as the same dimwits try to clear malfunctions on their buckmark and 10/22 and undo the flap on their buckmark holster...

I wouldn’t want to show up for a USPSA match and find it’s been converted to a GSSF indoor 50-round static COF, but if my local match set up 7 stages of 18-22 rounds with smart movement and challenging shots as opposed to 8 stages of 32-round hosing, I wouldn’t be upset. I think round counts can be tweaked dowsed without neutering the match.

Now would be a great time to set up some of those special qualification matches, where you can shoot 6 classifiers and get ranked in a new division. Lower count, still a challenging and useful match for the competitor or technical Timmy (since even if you don’t have a rats ass about classifying, having a national comparison on a shooting test is interesting data).

[ST911]

Three has been a bit of conversation about this at one of the clubs I shoot with. The two primary viewpoints seem to be split between some shooters advocating reduced round counts for stages or fewer stages and other shooters who say that if they are going to prepare for a match and drive 40 miles (in some cases more) to participate in a match, they want to shoot a full match. I'm in favor of the position advocated by the second group.


I would be PISSED if I drove to a match just to find that round counts had gone down to appease the vocal minority. Fuck that shit. I would say “let them shoot 22” but then the whole match would grind to a halt as the same dimwits try to clear malfunctions on their buckmark and 10/22 and undo the flap on their buckmark holster...

Slight tangent... Reminds me of some training during the last shortage.


I wouldn’t want to show up for a USPSA match and find it’s been converted to a GSSF indoor 50-round static COF, but if my local match set up 7 stages of 18-22 rounds with smart movement and challenging shots as opposed to 8 stages of 32-round hosing, I wouldn’t be upset. I think round counts can be tweaked dowsed without neutering the match. Now would be a great time to set up some of those special qualification matches, where you can shoot 6 classifiers and get ranked in a new division. Lower count, still a challenging and useful match for the competitor or technical Timmy (since even if you don’t have a rats ass about classifying, having a national comparison on a shooting test is interesting data).

Would seem to be very club dependent, yes?

[rob_s]

I wouldn’t want to show up for a USPSA match and find it’s been converted to a GSSF indoor 50-round static COF, but if my local match set up 7 stages of 18-22 rounds with smart movement and challenging shots as opposed to 8 stages of 32-round hosing, I wouldn’t be upset. I think round counts can be tweaked dowsed without neutering the match.

Now would be a great time to set up some of those special qualification matches, where you can shoot 6 classifiers and get ranked in a new division. Lower count, still a challenging and useful match for the competitor or technical Timmy (since even if you don’t have a rats ass about classifying, having a national comparison on a shooting test is interesting data).

Doing it "smart", sure. and the whole "lower round count but challenging vs hoser" has been an issue for the 15+ years I've been shooting matches, so that's nothing new.

What would piss me off would be to show up and have a hoser stage neutered, or a low round count, no problem solving, no movement stage because a few vocal ninnies bitched that they didn't buy enough ammo or can't afford to buy it now.

I have found over the years that most match directors are incapable of understanding that just because three whiners are crying about something that does not equate to what *everyone* wants.

[olstyn]

Attendance at local matches is definitely down a bit. Most of the missing are the casual shooters.

Thee are even open spots for the MN section match in 2 weeks. There was a small wait list, but it is cleared.

I withdrew from my spot in the MN section match (I was actually squadded on "staff day" even though I'm not staff), so I guess I sort of helped with that. I've got plenty of ammo, and I wish I was shooting matches, but at the one match I went to this summer, the vast majority of people were not maintaining appropriate social distance, and I came to the conclusion that I didn't want to deal with a full day of that while still trying to perform well and have fun, so I asked to withdraw from the section match. Thankfully, I got a full refund (did not expect that, but I guess the fact that there was a waiting list probably helped). REALLY hoping for a vaccine to be available soon. :(

[RJ]

It hadn't occurred to me that ammo shortages would affect matches...but it seems likely to be true.

I re-start my fall matches in Tampa with a 4-stage on Friday 8/28, so it will be interesting to see. Interest is usually strong, as my local club (WAC) is one of the few options I have without driving 1 hour+, so I expect it to be full.

[Amp]

Still no effect in eastern NC, I've got 85 signed up for our local IDPA match tomorrow.

[rcbusmc24]

I've shifted over to single stack and been running Major simply as I can still source 45 ACP from a buddies shop, but 9 is pretty much no more, The several thou of 9 I have stored up is being held as I never got into reloading (PCS moves can make moving stuff like that a challenge....) and I'm being told by guys in the industry I trust that this shortage is gonna take a while to recover from, due to the confluence of events influencing it. I want to save the 9 for any classes that come up in the next year or so. Plus shooting single stack gives me a reason to use all those 1911's I've been stuffing in the safe recently.

If this lasts too much longer I might just get set up with a comp rig for revolver as I've got plenty of .38 and enough wheel guns as well...

[RJ]

I re-start my fall matches in Tampa with a 4-stage on Friday 8/28, so it will be interesting to see. Interest is usually strong, as my local club (WAC) is one of the few options I have without driving 1 hour+, so I expect it to be full.

I forgot to check back on this thread: We had 23 shooters at our match, there were 48 slots on the roster.

[Amp]

Out of the 85 pre-registered only 68 showed up for yesterday's match.

[ranger]

I've shifted over to single stack and been running Major simply as I can still source 45 ACP from a buddies shop, but 9 is pretty much no more, The several thou of 9 I have stored up is being held as I never got into reloading (PCS moves can make moving stuff like that a challenge....) and I'm being told by guys in the industry I trust that this shortage is gonna take a while to recover from, due to the confluence of events influencing it. I want to save the 9 for any classes that come up in the next year or so. Plus shooting single stack gives me a reason to use all those 1911's I've been stuffing in the safe recently.

If this lasts too much longer I might just get set up with a comp rig for revolver as I've got plenty of .38 and enough wheel guns as well...

I may also shift to 45 as I have plenty of large pistol primers. Another reason to not have small pistol primer 45!

[JonInWA]

As one thread participant has, one can always choose the "screw you, I had the means/foresight to accumulate a sufficient stock of match ammunition" approach, but I'll suggest it's an approach that's likely to be of limited success, particularly over time/scheduled matches.

First, because your matches will likely face a diminishing pool of participants.

Second, because that participant pool will be of experienced shooters, and preclusive of new/newer shooters.

Third, because some of us who are more experienced shooters have other resource comittments which direct that we have limited stocks of stored/accumulated ammunition, and may only have enough on hand for a limited amount of matches at a given time.

Here's reality, at least in my neck of the woods (Seattle metro) at the current time (mid-September): Range/match ball amunition in virtually all of the popular calibers (i.e., .38 Special, 9mm, .40, and ,45 ACP) is severely constrained and/or totally unavailable, both at the LGS source and on-line sites. In my opinion, for sports like IDPA and ASI (and GSSF, etc.) to continue and flourish with a reasonable amount of participants, a "best practices" approach will need to be to design good challenging scenarios with lower round counts-which, by the way, is most probably more significantly relevant to the real-world siituations one is likely to encounter.

I'm slated to be an IDPA Match Director for our October match, and I plan on likely having 6 stages with a total mimimum roundcount of 6-10 rounds per stage.

Best, Jon

[Zincwarrior]

As one thread participant has, one can always choose the "screw you, I had the means/foresight to accumulate a sufficient stock of match ammunition" approach, but I'll suggest it's an approach that's likely to be of limited success, particularly over time/scheduled matches.

First, because your matches will likely face a diminishing pool of participants.

Second, because that participant pool will be of experienced shooters, and preclusive of new/newer shooters.

Third, because some of us who are more experienced shooters have other resource comittments which direct that we have limited stocks of stored/accumulated ammunition, and may only have enough on hand for a limited amount of matches at a given time.

Here's reality, at least in my neck of the woods (Seattle metro) at the current time (mid-September): Range/match ball amunition in virtually all of the popular calibers (i.e., .38 Special, 9mm, .40, and ,45 ACP) is severely constrained and/or totally unavailable, both at the LGS source and on-line sites. In my opinion, for sports like IDPA and ASI (and GSSF, etc.) to continue and flourish with a reasonable amount of participants, a "best practices" approach will need to be to design good challenging scenarios with lower round counts-which, by the way, is most probably more significantly relevant to the real-world siituations one is likely to encounter.

I'm slated to be an IDPA Match Director for our October match, and I plan on likely having 6 stages with a total mimimum roundcount of 6-10 rounds per stage.

Best, Jon

Our last IDPA match yesterday, still had six stages, but more movement and a bunch of targets that required 1 round per target instead of the usual two or so. We also had a lot of hard cover targets with head shots, etc. Still very interesting.

[Amp]

I shot a match a couple of weeks ago that still had the usual 6 Unlimited stages but the required rounds to complete each stage was 10. You could only have 5rds in your gun and 5rds in your mags/speed loaders. The stages had some tighter than usual shots and it was a fun match.

The match director said the reason they did it was because several shooters said they were having trouble sourcing ammo.

[Jim Watson]

I will be shooting IDPA in Rev-E because I have more LP than SP (or even SP + SR) primers, and with moon clips, I get back all my brass six at a time.

I have been shooting USPSA in Single Stack, abandoned a batch of .45 Small in the grass a couple of weeks ago.

[Rocky Racoon]

Our last IDPA match yesterday, still had six stages, but more movement and a bunch of targets that required 1 round per target instead of the usual two or so. We also had a lot of hard cover targets with head shots, etc. Still very interesting.

Now that you mentioned it, one round per target is a excellent way to reduce round count while not greatly diminishing the fun and *training aspect.

*I'm going by the premise that splits need less practice than transitions.

I'm surprised IDPA's collective head didn't explode though with the thought of the cardboard muggers only getting one round a piece. :D

[Jim Watson]

No, that would be USPSA. I can't recall a USPSA field course with other than two scored hits per target.
IDPA switches things around more.

[CleverNickname]

No, that would be USPSA. I can't recall a USPSA field course with other than two scored hits per target.
I shoot a 3 shot-per-target UPSA field course maybe a couple times per year (shooting 25-30 matches a year). Had one last weekend in fact. 1-shot-per-target is a lot less. The last time I remember one for sure was at the 2017 Area 8 match.

[olstyn]

I shoot a 3 shot-per-target UPSA field course maybe a couple times per year (shooting 25-30 matches a year). Had one last weekend in fact. 1-shot-per-target is a lot less. The last time I remember one for sure was at the 2017 Area 8 match.

It's definitely uncommon, yeah, but I remember a 27-round 1 shot per target memory stage at the MN Section match a few years ago. That was a challenge. Thankfully some friends and I all walked it together and mapped out which targets needed to be shot from which views.

[Minnesota]

I withdrew from my spot in the MN section match (I was actually squadded on "staff day" even though I'm not staff), so I guess I sort of helped with that. I've got plenty of ammo, and I wish I was shooting matches, but at the one match I went to this summer, the vast majority of people were not maintaining appropriate social distance, and I came to the conclusion that I didn't want to deal with a full day of that while still trying to perform well and have fun, so I asked to withdraw from the section match. Thankfully, I got a full refund (did not expect that, but I guess the fact that there was a waiting list probably helped). REALLY hoping for a vaccine to be available soon. :(

Don't think I saw you this year but hopefully will next year. Your conclusion about the section match was indeed correct.

[olstyn]

Don't think I saw you this year but hopefully will next year. Your conclusion about the section match was indeed correct.

Yeah, it's been a while - I've only been to one match since February, and like I mentioned earlier in thread, it didn't fill me with happiness. Hopefully things will get back to something resembling sanity over the next few months. Really I just need there to be a vaccine so I don't have to feel like I'm putting my wife at risk any time I come into contact with other people.

[ECS686]

The IDPA and USPSA numbers seem down in my area. And oddly enough the Indiana USPSA state championship match this weekend has several open slots which I can't remember when it wasn't plus capacity being shooters from surrounding states always added numbers.

[Amp]

Match attendance is definitely being affected in Eastern NC by the ammo shortage . I shoot 3 IDPA matches monthly and attendance is down 35-40%.

[LHS]

I've started shooting the local BUG match more and more. I can get four stages of 6-12 rounds each, shooting .32 ACP which I can get cheaper than 9-ball right now. And it's fun.

[peterb]

I've started shooting the local BUG match more and more. I can get four stages of 6-12 rounds each, shooting .32 ACP which I can get cheaper than 9-ball right now. And it's fun.

I've noticed that .32 ACP is in stock at places that are cleaned out of .380 and 9mm. Prices aren't terrible either.

I don't need another caliber. Really. .Those Beretta 81s and 82s sure look nice, though.....:-)

[LHS]

I've noticed that .32 ACP is in stock at places that are cleaned out of .380 and 9mm. Prices aren't terrible either.

I don't need another caliber. Really. .Those Beretta 81s and 82s sure look nice, though.....:-)

I bought a few of the 81s that got imported from Italian navy surplus last year, thinking I was a fool for buying guns that I'd maybe shoot once, then stick in the back of the safe to gather dust.

Instead, I ended up buying a couple thousand rounds of FMJ and a dozen mags, and have been enjoying the absolute hell out of them. They're as easy to shoot as a .22, but have enough oomph to make me feel like I'm shooting a 'real' gun. I don't think I'd ever carry them as long as I have a supply of 9mm and my 92Cs, but I do wish Beretta would upgrade the 81 series like they have the 92 series. An 81X would be really slick.

[GyroF-16]

I've noticed that .32 ACP is in stock at places that are cleaned out of .380 and 9mm. Prices aren't terrible either.

I don't need another caliber. Really. .Those Beretta 81s and 82s sure look nice, though.....:-)

Oh, don’t you go and get me looking at those again....

Where are you seeing them? Was it Gander Mountain?

[LHS]

Oh, don’t you go and get me looking at those again....

Where are you seeing them? Was it Gander Mountain?

Gander's sold out and has been for a few months now. Pretty much all of them are sold out from distributors now, your best bet will likely be to snag one from the 'broker.

FWIW, you're better off getting an 81BB or later revision, as the older non-suffix guns don't have the same level of parts support as the newer guns.

[CleverNickname]

I noticed that the two monthly USPSA matches I regularly attend both cut down on their round counts this month. All the stages were in the 21-25 round range. Normally, one club is almost all 32-round stages.

[Jim Watson]

Similar here. Round count at one place is down 10-20% and attendance is down. I'll check another Saturday if I can.

IDPA last week had a very small turnout of regulars, but a "shooting club" that makes the rounds of ranges and events trying different stuff out almost made up the numbers. Only a couple of people out of that bunch seemed inclined to return, though, their skill level was exceeded by their enthusiasm.

[JonInWA]

For this weekend's IDPA match, as Match Director I've designed a 6-7 stage match (depending on attendance) with a minumum round count of 62 rounds (and that's for the 7 stage version). To allow for those who want a bigger bang for their buck, 5 of the 7 stages are unlimited, so if you feel a compelling need to blast away, and have the ammunition, you can have at it.

Two of the major stores in my area now are either out of handgun ammunition or are not selling any for out of premises use (they have an excellent range)-even .40 now.

I think we're going to be in this place for awhile, very possibly into 2021. For our sport to be viable, we need to constructively and creatively adjust, or a lot of new gunowners are simply never going to have any enticement to take their acquisitions out of their sock drawers.

Best, Jon

[LHS]

For this weekend's IDPA match, as Match Director I've designed a 6-7 stage match (depending on attendance) with a minumum round count of 62 rounds (and that's for the 7 stage version). To allow for those who want a bigger bang for their buck, 5 of the 7 stages are unlimited, so if you feel a compelling need to blast away, and have the ammunition, you can have at it.

Two of the major stores in my area now are either out of handgun ammunition or are not selling any for out of premises use (they have an excellent range)-even .40 now.

I think we're going to be in this place for awhile, very possibly into 2021. For our sport to be viable, we need to constructively and creatively adjust, or a lot of new gunowners are simply never going to have any enticement to take their acquisitions out of their sock drawers.

Best, Jon

I've heard best-case estimates of 2 years to get back to 'normal', assuming Trump wins and we thus dodge a Biden-ban-scare additional run on ammo.

The combination of civil unrest and pandemic fears have spurred lots of new gun owners along with the regular boom/bust cycle from current owners, and the Covid restrictions on everything from raw materials extraction to transport to factory production have cut supply simultaneously. It's not good.

[JonInWA]

For this weekend's IDPA match, as Match Director I've designed a 6-7 stage match (depending on attendance) with a minumum round count of 62 rounds (and that's for the 7 stage version). To allow for those who want a bigger bang for their buck, 5 of the 7 stages are unlimited, so if you feel a compelling need to blast away, and have the ammunition, you can have at it.

Two of the major stores in my area now are either out of handgun ammunition or are not selling any for out of premises use (they have an excellent range)-even .40 now.

I think we're going to be in this place for awhile, very possibly into 2021. For our sport to be viable, we need to constructively and creatively adjust, or a lot of new gunowners are simply never going to have any enticement to take their acquisitions out of their sock drawers.

Best, Jon

The match went well-42 shooters, 7 stages, 63 round minimum roundcount. 5 of the 7 stages were unlimited, so shooters who had the ammunition and felt the need could fire away to their heart's content. Interestingly, at least in the squad I embedded myself in, there seemed to be more concentration on accuracy as opposed to repetitive shots. I seemed to hear repetitively more "down zeros" than in normal higher roundcount matches. No one seemed displeased with the lower round count; the stages were what we're used to in terms of targets and complexity, with a average of about 8 shootable targets per stage.

I've long suspected that having fewer rounds mandated/on hand results in higher accuracy. We'll have to see how this plays out in the remainder of this year and likely in 2021, but it's certainly food for thought.

Tam would have been pleased-I shot my John Martz restored 1938 P.08 Mauser Luger, which is amazingly intrinsically accurate, despite a set of miniscule and ridiculously designed OEM service sights (the front is a serrated pyramid, which is ok in and of itself-until it's paired with the rear sight, which is a small V cut....),

Best, Jon

[ranger]

Local IDPA club sent out an email asking for input for alternate venues due to shortage of pistol ammo, etc. Suggestions of a shotgun match with birdshot or 22 pistol based events. Decision is to try a 22 rifle based match.

[Amp]

IDPA clubs in NC are encouraging shooters to shoot .22s in NFC Division.

[Norville]

Reasonably local indoor .22 Steel Challenge suspended until further notice. Attendance way down, along with rimfire ammunition.

[GJM]

This is getting to be a major problem for USPSA shooters. Without relief, the ammo shortage may reduce 2021 participation more than Covid did in the spring of 2020.

[olstyn]

This is getting to be a major problem for USPSA shooters. Without relief, the ammo shortage may reduce 2021 participation more than Covid did in the spring of 2020.

COVID shut off my participation for basically all of 2020, so I've still got the vast majority of the projectiles I purchased on Black Friday 2019 and primers I purchased in summer 2019. I'm all set to go once the world goes back to some semblance of normal. Hopefully everybody else hasn't run out completely by then.

[Borderland]

Local IDPA club sent out an email asking for input for alternate venues due to shortage of pistol ammo, etc. Suggestions of a shotgun match with birdshot or 22 pistol based events. Decision is to try a 22 rifle based match.

100 yds slow fire? I'm there if it's local, but obviously it isn't.

[Amp]

Attendance is still strong in Eastern NC but I'm hearing more guys saying that may start to drop out of shooting matches if supply doesn't loosen up soon.

[Flamingo]

I wish I could find a range that is open. The local ones have "voluntarily" closed until COVID is over.

[rdtompki]

I wish I could find a range that is open. The local ones have "voluntarily" closed until COVID is over.

Outdoor ranges as well? Where are you located (generally speaking) because that would make no sense whatsoever. Asking just so I don't accidentally move there:)

[Flamingo]

Western Washington

[ranger]

I suspect that PRS rimfire will boom in 2021 as fewer people have the specific powder/primer combo for centerfire PRS. Saw rumblings of shooters moving back to cartridge that use large rifle primers (6mm Creedmoor, 6XC, 6.5 Creedmoor even) as the 6mm BR based cartridges use small rifle primers (specifically CCI450s) which are unobtanium.

Will be curious to see if any pistol competitors dust off their 45ACPs for similar reasons.

[Spartan1980]

Will be curious to see if any pistol competitors dust off their 45ACPs for similar reasons.

If it goes long enough this is EXACTLY what I plan on doing. I'm really kicking myself for loosing one of my cases of LPPs now. I was hoping to find a case of SPPs but haven't yet.