Sonic riot deterrence?

[fatdog]

I remember about 15-20 years ago all these directed sonic riot control systems were hyped as the hot new police tech. Yet I have not seen or heard of a single instance in all the recent rioting where they were deployed.

I know some of the more powerful units were put on some merchant ships to supposedly deter some pirate attacks, which always seemed like a giant leap to me.

Discussing this with a co-worker I apparently inspired him to put some personal "sonic" measures in place. Not sure if it is wise, if they will actually work, etc. But he put a 150db "freight train" style air horns in his vehicle just behind the grill with one of those mini-compressors that comes with those packages. His theory is that if he gets stuck in a BLM riot he is just going to lay down on the thing and people will have little choice but to get off his car since nobody can stand to be close to one of those things.

He was also speculating about getting one of the directed sound gadgets and wiring it up to some obnoxious sounds electronically in case the BLM rioters ever came to his street like that mob in Colorado Springs. His theory being that they will not choose to remain in the street if they are being bombarded by that directed sound gadget with a horrible loud shrill noise. But the odds of a BLM/antifa protest seem a bit slim on his street.

I doubt that is a worthy investment, but if I were going down that route I would just get one of those 120V air raid siren things and call it done. Living in the farmland area
where I do, I don't have to worry about any of it.

Anybody know if there are LE agencies some place who ever adopted those sonic based riot control systems? I have to assume not, since I have never heard of one ever being deployed.

[blues]

Taylor Swift should get the desired result. (Sorry for the diversion.)

[fatdog]

Yep I remember that movie "Mars Attacks" where the Slim Whitman tune did the work....Taylor Swift would certainly get me to move on...

[blues]

Yep I remember that movie "Mars Attacks" where the Slim Whitman tune did the work....Taylor Swift would certainly get me to move on...

Imagine the effect on Kanye!

[Hieronymous]

I don't know about sonic deterrence, but I remember Raytheon promoted a product in the early 2000's that was a heat ray area denial system.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

This interests given my background in sensory systems, so I did a quick search and this was the first:

https://www.popularmechanics.com/military/weapons/a32892398/what-is-lrad-sonic-weapon-protests/

Here's another: https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/plug-your-ears-run-nypd-s-use-sound-cannons-challenged-n1008916

They have been deployed:


A student who went to photograph a Black Lives Matter protest was warned that New York City police might use a sound cannon against demonstrators.

"My friend said, 'If you hear this, plug your ears and run,'" Anika Edrei recalled.

So, when the NYPD fired a Long Range Acoustic Device, or a LRAD, at the demonstration in 2014 in Manhattan, that's exactly what Edrei, 24, did.

Now New York officers’ use of the sound cannon at that protest is the subject of what may be the first lawsuit in the nation over police deployment of such devices, the plaintiffs’ lawyer, Gideon Oliver, says. After a couple of years of the case winding its way through the courts, the U.S. Supreme Court declined to hear the NYPD’s motion for dismissal, allowing the suit by Edrei and five other plaintiffs to proceed.

Note the discussion of the legal implications of a system that impacts large numbers of folks who may not be the trouble makers. Causing permanent damage is a lawyer's dream.

As a civilian, I would worry about someone who will claim they were not in your way but you damaged their hearing. That might be a legit case.

One might also note that demonstrators are carrying guns and just might decide to shoot you up. There are videos of drivers trying to bull their way through and guns being drawn (more than the Austin case).

[TGS]

fatdog are you talking about an LRAD?

They cause permanent hearing damage if you don't vacate the area, and so various departments have been sued into not using them and many departments these days actually use them strictly as a megaphone for giving instructions and have the deterrent mode disabled by the factory. That, or people wear hearing protection and just ignore it....I believe this was the case with LRAD use early on at the US Courthouse in Portland (don't quote me, but I believe one was in use before being withdrawn due to lack of effect).

They're annoying, but a 40mm baton round is way more effective at making people do what you want.

ETA: As for use, just go to youtube and search "LRAD". Plenty of videos.

Then search for videos of people getting thumped with 40mm less lethal.

Dramatic difference.

[JRB]

Taylor Swift? We gotta understand that most of these people listen to Cardi B *intentionally*.

I'm thinking something wholesome with actual vocal talent, like LeAnn Rimes 'Blue' which at high volume on repeat. We'd get the psyops paradoxical emotion of the song, and being country, it'd annoy the hell out of anyone that thinks Cardi B makes music.


...

They're annoying, but a 40mm baton round is way more effective at making people do what you want.

ETA: As for use, just go to youtube and search "LRAD". Plenty of videos.

Then search for videos of people getting thumped with 40mm less lethal.

Dramatic difference.

40mm less lethal videos are one of my new favorite things.

[Zincwarrior]

Nature has already shown us the way to sonic deterrence:


https://youtu.be/TAzl5xOOIQk

[Wondering Beard]

Taylor Swift? We gotta understand that most of these people listen to Cardi B *intentionally*.

I'm thinking something wholesome with actual vocal talent, like LeAnn Rimes 'Blue' which at high volume on repeat. We'd get the psyops paradoxical emotion of the song, and being country, it'd annoy the hell out of anyone that thinks Cardi B makes music.

To be fair, I believe there is a Taylor Swift song that repeats "Haters gonna hate, hate, hate" and that sounds perfectly appropriate to blast towards those guys.

[blues]

To be fair, I believe there is a Taylor Swift song that repeats "Haters gonna hate, hate, hate" and that sounds perfectly appropriate to blast towards those guys.

Follow it up with Merle Haggard's "Okie From Muskogee". Like holding a mirror up to a vampire. :cool:

[rd62]

I seem to recall a tv show detailing some of these options and included a pulsed light device that triggered vomiting in the exposed.

That would seem pretty effect if not also comedic.

[fatdog]

fatdog are you talking about an LRAD?.

yes I think so, I did not know the name, thanks for the citations....

[NH Shooter]

I thought we were talking about the fast food joint and how they have eliminated riots from their locations.


https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-6hbatGZU6BY/U4riW_Rd3dI/AAAAAAAAA4c/TOSPLlCdsL8/s1600/Sonic-Guys-Fuck-You.jpg

[Coyotesfan97]

Nature has already shown us the way to sonic deterrence:


https://youtu.be/TAzl5xOOIQk

That’s a balanced pack of Smooth Reds and Black and Tans. It’d be even better if they were mobile. Six Dachshunds running around barking with their tails up! Bet they’re aren’t any Badgers around there.

[blues]

That’s a balanced pack of Smooth Reds and Black and Tans. It’d be even better if they were mobile. Six Dachshunds running around barking with their tails up! Bet they’re aren’t any Badgers around there.



https://youtu.be/gx6TBrfCW54

[Spartan1980]

Been wishing some of these would show up.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zvP_v4UOXt4

[trailrunner]

Been wishing some of these would show up.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zvP_v4UOXt4

DoD research into non-lethal weapons was active in the 2000s and early 2010s because they were relevant to the wars we were fighting at the time. When Mattis became SecDef, the focus shifted to our near-peer threats, and the non-lethal became less important.

I think now the non-lethal program is being run by USMC out of an office at Quantico, and they renamed it to something else. I sat in (via telecon) a briefing that they gave my boss about two or three months ago.

My portfolio used to fund non-lethal S&T, but I don't have anything ongoing right now. I have been told that the microwave system at the beginning of the video was funded by our office, but the project ended around 2018 or so.

[JAD]

I don’t get to play with less lethal DE much because the SWAP-T isn’t much of a challenge, but as someone who followed DE in general very closely since 2017 I can say it’s not a subject at conferences anymore.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

There was an episode of Myth Busters where they examined whether subsonics would make you crap your pants. It was claimed that those frequencies would start a resonant vibration in your guts and thus a poop-fest. They bombarded Adam with tremendous volume to no effect.

It was also claimed that such frequencies would loosen your abs and that's why truck drivers had big bellies.

Microwaves can be countered by strapping bags of popcorn to your chest.

Yeah, right.