Vibra-Tite

[GJM]

A few years ago, I used Vibra-Tite to install a plate, per recommended torque set by a Wheeler, and it came loose. I went back to blue loctite and have had few to no problems with things coming loose.

A month or so ago, I installed a V4 C&H plate on a Gen 5 17, used the supplied Vibra-Tite with torque set by a Wheeler (different Wheeler than used previously) to the specified value. I zeroed the pistol and put it aside as a back-up. I started shooting it a week ago, and have shoot it a thousand or two rounds.

Yesterday, my wife had a Romeo 3 Max come flying off a Legion, when both screws holding the optic to the plate sheared on the Springer plate. She had verified security of the plate and optic Friday, before heading to matches. (Springer is replacing the plate). That got me wiggling on my various plates, and I was surprised to find the C&H plate was slightly loose. When I pulled everything, all four screws were loose — the two securing the plate to the pistol and the two holding the optic. The Vibra-Tite had migrated high on each screw and was in chunks. I reapplied blue loctite and reinstalled the plate.

I am starting to question Vibra-Tite.

[Hambo]

I use it for stuff with mild vibration, like my reloaders, not parts that take a beating. I didn't think it was supposed to be a Loctite replacement.

[YVK]

I am starting to question Vibra-Tite.

Not a statistically significant sample. Keep using it till it fails on 5-7 more pistols, then maybe.




I myself used it once, with the whole prep and cure time etc, the screws got loose, and that was the first and the last time I used it.

[farscott]

In my experience, thread lockers require three steps to successfully survive in the application: 1) Choosing the proper thread locking compound for the application and materiel, 2) Preparing the surfaces of the threaded fasteners, and 3) Torquing and curing to spec.

I usually use the industrial side of the Henkel Loctite website and select a thread locker for the application. If I am lazy, I choose Loctite 294 as it works with oil and does not require disassembly to apply. Loctite 243 is a great choice when dealing with stainless or finished metal. Loctite Grd B is great for fine pitched fasteners but will cause stress cracking in plastics.

[flyrodr]

I normally use blue Loctite, after cleaning threads on screw, base, etc. with acetone or lacquer thinner. No issues. Recently put Vibra-Tite on adjustment screw (after same prep) of QR base for T2 on Rattler. Checking it after two range trips (and a fairly low round count), it had loosened enough that I could turn it easily with fingers (QR clamp held base on). Took it off, and with there was clearly resistance to finger-turning from Vibra-Tite, but it wasn't a solid hold.

N=1 on Vibra-Tite, but I have a fairly high sample size on Loctite, with zero issues. Jury still out . . .

Tony at JMCK packages it with his holsters, and the Vibra-Tite holds well on those retention screws. Maybe that's its ballpark: light stress tensioning.

[Duke]

Goddamnit.

Thus far I’ve had no issues with loose plates or screws using vc3

Until I read this I was happy.

Now I have to assume that I fucked it up somehow and it still worked.

So until I unmount, strip, re-apply thread locker, torque, paint and Rezero I’m going to be think about this

Goddamnit.

[Norville]

After 2-3 broken screws or loosening issues w blue Loctite I switched to VC3 last year. No problems since. I have about 4K rounds through my G34 w FCD plate and SRO with no issues. Just went and shook it after shooting a ten stage match Sunday, still tight.

[GJM]

What I find odd, is when I use blue loctite, and remove a screw I can see the residue of the loctite evenly distributed. With the Vibra Tite, it looks like rather than being evenly distributed, the Vibra Tite migrates up towards the head of the screw, leaving the lower threads appear untreated, and the material is in small chunks that are loose.

[Lon]

I’ve been using Loctite 243 on my RDS pistols and have had good luck with it.

[rca90gsx]

I've had no luck with Vibratite the couple times I tried it. And I made sure everything was extremely cleaned/degreased.



I’ve been using Loctite 243 on my RDS pistols and have had good luck with it.

[Spartan1980]

I use it for stuff with mild vibration, like my reloaders, not parts that take a beating. I didn't think it was supposed to be a Loctite replacement.

This is exactly right. VT is intended for applications that vibrate rather the getting “hammered”. It’s also intended for removal and reinstalling a limited number of times before reapplying. This sort of implies to me that I would be seeing the condition of the fastener on a somewhat regular basis.

Pro tip: don’t leave a big glob on the screw. Wipe it down to the major diameter (outside) of the thread so it is only filling the thread at most, a little less is better. It’s easy to use too much on small screws and when you do, the material has enough strength that it will just stop at the start of the hole and the screw will rotate inside of said glob. When this happens you end up with a washer made up of VT.


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[GearFondler]

^^^ This.

For small screws I add a drop then wipe it around the threads with my finger so that it only fills the channels about half full, let it dry, then install.

Name a thread locker, any type, and you'll find people who swear by it and people who swear at it.

[Darth_Uno]

I like vibratite for low stress applications (scope rings, trigger guards, etc) or something I might want to take off later.

I use purple loctite for most everything else. RMR’s, front sights, etc. Never had a problem. I have had problems with blue gripping a little *too* well on thin screws.


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[flyrodr]

I have had problems with blue gripping a little *too* well on thin screws.

Can't remember who suggested this to me; seems it was John Harrison relative to 1911 grip screw bushings. He said while heat worked on Loctite, that it was better (less potential for damage outside of the target area) if the heat was focused on the offending screw/bushing. He said try one of the pencil micro-flame butane-fueled torches, focused on only the stuck screw. Alternatively, but less effective, was to use a soldering gun. Not the low powered soldering irons, but the more potent soldering guns. Hold the tip right on the stuck bushing/screw, and it should loosen up. Have tried both. The micro-torch is quicker ("better"?), but the less potent soldering gun offers a possibly less impacting alternative to the torch.

Both both work, at least on Loctite-held screws/bushings.

[Xhado]

What I find odd, is when I use blue loctite, and remove a screw I can see the residue of the loctite evenly distributed. With the Vibra Tite, it looks like rather than being evenly distributed, the Vibra Tite migrates up towards the head of the screw, leaving the lower threads appear untreated, and the material is in small chunks that are loose.

This is not the experience I've had with Vibra-Tite.

Are you using the two sheets of paper application method to reduce buildup?

Are you waiting 30 minutes for it to cure before installing


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6vGTaTa1zmg

[OlongJohnson]

Can't remember who suggested this to me; seems it was John Harrison relative to 1911 grip screw bushings. He said while heat worked on Loctite, that it was better (less potential for damage outside of the target area) if the heat was focused on the offending screw/bushing. He said try one of the pencil micro-flame butane-fueled torches, focused on only the stuck screw. Alternatively, but less effective, was to use a soldering gun. Not the low powered soldering irons, but the more potent soldering guns. Hold the tip right on the stuck bushing/screw, and it should loosen up. Have tried both. The micro-torch is quicker ("better"?), but the less potent soldering gun offers a possibly less impacting alternative to the torch.

Both both work, at least on Loctite-held screws/bushings.

There was a guy on ADVRider who was a field rep for Henckel. He said heat it until you see a wisp of smoke, then it's as loose as it's going to get. I believe he endorsed the soldering iron method, using the giant plumber-type iron, or at least a solid gun. Would hate to char some nice stocks...

[flyrodr]

He said heat it until you see a wisp of smoke, then it's as loose as it's going to get. Would hate to char some nice stocks...

That awakened a sleeping neuron. It was John Harrison, and he did mention to "heat it just until you see a wisp of smoke". He suggested the soldering gun, and if I had to go hotter, not to go beyond the butane micro torch.

On optics, I've not gone beyond the soldering gun, and only needed that on one screw. Too much mini electronics around for me to try anything more.

[Blades]

So should I use the Vibratite that came with my C&H V4 Defender plate or get some Locktite?

[GJM]

This is not the experience I've had with Vibra-Tite.

Are you using the two sheets of paper application method to reduce buildup?

Are you waiting 30 minutes for it to cure before installing


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6vGTaTa1zmg

Two sheets of paper? Applying the thread locker shouldn’t be more complicated than stripping a Glock. I guess I am just a blue loctite kind of guy.

[farscott]

Two sheets of paper? Applying the thread locker shouldn’t be more complicated than stripping a Glock. I guess I am just a blue loctite kind of guy.

Following the prep and cure instructions is crucial with thread lockers. Loctite products even differ in application methods and cure as different products are used.

[flyrodr]

From Vibra-Tite web site (https://www.vibra-tite.com/threadlockers/removable-reusable-threadlockers/vibra-tite-vc-3-threadmate/?gclid=CjwKCAjwps75BRAcEiwAEiACMQWgRpe9FPl4xvY-Hxc_i33dMeqnO-xHio4_GNWuY5lHqtENerOVFRoC2zMQAvD_BwE)

Shake well before each use. Apply VC-3 a length of 1 to 1 ½ times the fastener diameter, filling threads 30-50%. Although material will be dry to touch within minutes, allow VC-3 to dry for at least 30 minutes (the longer the better), depending on part size. Fasteners are then ready for assembly or to be stored for later use.

#################

From Loctite blue 242 web site: (https://www.loctiteproducts.com/en/products/specialty-products/specialty/loctite_threadlockerblue242.html)

Application:

For Thru Holes:
Apply several drops of the product onto the bolt at the nut engagement area.

For Blind Holes:
Apply several drops of the product down the internal threads to the bottom of the hole.

For Sealing Applications:
Apply a 360° bead of product to the leading threads of the male fitting, leaving the first thread free. Force the material into the threads to thoroughly fill the voids. For bigger threads and voids, adjust product amount accordingly and apply a 360° bead of product on the female threads also.

Assemble parts and tighten as required. Sets in approximately 10 minutes and fully cures in 24 hours.

####################

Seems the Loctite can be applied with less care (precision?). And some differences in the working temperature, etc.

Choose your poison . . . perhaps there's a better word choice here.

[Eyesquared]

What I find odd, is when I use blue loctite, and remove a screw I can see the residue of the loctite evenly distributed. With the Vibra Tite, it looks like rather than being evenly distributed, the Vibra Tite migrates up towards the head of the screw, leaving the lower threads appear untreated, and the material is in small chunks that are loose.

I noticed something similar but I think the reason was that the vibratite is a little thicker, maybe it's getting pushed up as I screw the screws in?

[Archer1440]

My former company distributed Vibratite VC3 for a while, one of our product managers was impressed with its function for keeping arrow points from rattling loose.

Personally, I found it to not work all that well, and shelf life was a bit variable.

It has historically (according to the Vibratite company) been used on the M1A1 Abrams cannon trunnion bolts... which, last time I checked, were NOT an M4 or 4-40.

I like the solid stick blue Loctite 248 much better. No drips, immediate assembly, no creep, no way to work into the pistol action, no waste and you can put it exactly where you want it.

[Gio]

I also shoot a decent amount of archery in addition to firearms. I recently got a bow where the mod screws to change draw length would loosen over the course of a 50-100 arrow shooting session. I put vibratite VC3 on them but even after a few hundred arrows, I would put an allen wrench on them and apply a little tightening pressure and visibly be able to tighten the screw down a 1/4 to 1/2 turn from it loosening. I switched to blue loctite at the manufacturer's recommendation and have shot about 1000-1500 arrows since and the screws have not moved.

Caveat: I have been using VC3 on CH precision V4 plates with SRO's and have not had any loosen on me.

[Whirlwind06]

I noticed that My G34 with CHP v4 plate is loose today both the plate and the optic. Going to reassemble with locktite


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[Whirlwind06]

After taking it apart to add locktite. I noticed that the vibra-tite was pooled at the bottom of the posts that the optic is attached to. When I put everything back together, I placed the pistol sitting slide down, thinking that gravity will help keep it in place until it sets.


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[OlongJohnson]

If I recall the instructions for Vibra-Tite, they say to let it dry on the screws prior to assembly. So it shouldn't be running or pooling anywhere if you're doing it right.

In your application, Loctite may still be better. Be sure to solvent clean all the Vibra-Tite off the parts first.

[Archer1440]

For those who might be wondering, MEK is a good solvent for VC3.

[orionz06]

Can't remember who suggested this to me; seems it was John Harrison relative to 1911 grip screw bushings. He said while heat worked on Loctite, that it was better (less potential for damage outside of the target area) if the heat was focused on the offending screw/bushing. He said try one of the pencil micro-flame butane-fueled torches, focused on only the stuck screw. Alternatively, but less effective, was to use a soldering gun. Not the low powered soldering irons, but the more potent soldering guns. Hold the tip right on the stuck bushing/screw, and it should loosen up. Have tried both. The micro-torch is quicker ("better"?), but the less potent soldering gun offers a possibly less impacting alternative to the torch.

Both both work, at least on Loctite-held screws/bushings.

People shouldn't be so afraid of a little heat, it's rather easy to get things hot without tossing a gun in a fire.


Get a good soldering iron like a Hakko and you'll be set.

[RJ]

Any updates to this question, six months later? I'm about to put on a 507c v2 on Glock 34 MOS using a C&H Defender V4 plate. C&H says Vibratite VC-3, Holosun says medium/blue.

What do you use for optics screws these days, and why?

[littlejerry]

There was a guy on ADVRider who was a field rep for Henckel. He said heat it until you see a wisp of smoke, then it's as loose as it's going to get. I believe he endorsed the soldering iron method, using the giant plumber-type iron, or at least a solid gun. Would hate to char some nice stocks...

I've used this method for many years with good success. On sensitive items I'll be patient and use a soldering iron(can be challenging if you're threaded into an aluminum piece) or a torch if it's safe. His assessment is spot on: whisp of smoke, then remove fastener. Depending on the size I'll use an impact driver for removal.

[HCountyGuy]

Any updates to this question, six months later? I'm about to put on a 507c v2 on Glock 34 MOS using a C&H Defender V4 plate. C&H says Vibratite VC-3, Holosun says medium/blue.

What do you use for optics screws these days, and why?

My 507v2 on my G45 using a C&H plate is holding up just fine with Vibratite after following the recommended application instructions. I will admit to not having put many rounds through it quite yet though.

[flyrodr]

Any updates to this question, six months later? I'm about to put on a 507c v2 on Glock 34 MOS using a C&H Defender V4 plate. C&H says Vibratite VC-3, Holosun says medium/blue.

What do you use for optics screws these days, and why?

Well, I'd offer that when I have removed ANY of my red dots put on with blue Loctite, they've all been tight and required some solid (but not excessive) pressure to break the screw threads loose. I've only done one with VibraTite, and vaguely recall that I didn't allow the material to dry sufficiently before assembly; not absolutely sure. Regardless, those screws did loosen. To be fair, I'll take the blame on that one.

Still, with zero failures, I'm sticking to Loctite. Conversely, one wouldn't think the mfgrs would include a product that didn't work.

Either way, I'd clean screws and holes with acetone, lacquer thinner - - - some quick-evaporating solvent - - - and then hit everything with a blast of air to be sure all are fully dry before applying "sticky of choice" and assembling.

(Just don't use red Loctite, or you'll either be using a heat source to get the screws loose, or likely stripping/breaking screws.)

[RJ]

So while I'm waiting for my plate to get here I decided to try a highly unscientific experiment.

I took two spare Glock plate screws, and one of the Glock MOS plates I wasn't using. I chased the screws and cleaned the threads up. I then installed both on the plate, one using Vibratite VC-3 (V) and one using some Versachem "245" blue (medium strenth, similar to Loctite 243, so call that one (L)). I've used this tube of 245 the past four years on Glock front sight posts with no issues.

67191

The (V) screw I prepped according to the directions. One drop, then allowed to dry 30 minutes. Then installed.

The (L) screw i put the blue threadlocker on just like I normally do on a sight post (just a bit) and installed it wet. It's curing now. I torqued both to 10 inch lbs using my Wheeler FAT gauge.

Couple observations. The (V) screw head seemed to go in fine, but there is a large amount of the polymer VC-3 residue that pooled up around the screw head. Also, I reread the instructions for my Wheeler and was surprised how tight 10 inch lbs actually is, when set to the red mark and torqued. Wheeler recommends a click, then two clicks past, to "set" the torque value. These tiny screws are pretty tight.

My tool arrived with a Calibration sheet indicating a set 10 inch lbs was an actual value of 9.6 in lbs, at least according to their metrology source at the Wheeler factory (probably somewhere in China, I reckon.) Close enough.

Anyway, I'll undo these tomorrow to see how they compare in loosening up, and post back anything interesting.

[Quantrill]

The only time I used vibra - tite my RMR came loose. (Milled slide)

Blue locktite has been 100%

[GearFondler]

If the Vibratite is stripped out when installed it usually indicates that too much was used... Only half the thread depth, or less, should be filled. That's a hard thing to do on tiny ass screws with shallow threads. I usually wipe my finger around the threads to remove the excess.

[flyrodr]

So while I'm waiting for my plate to get here I decided to try a highly unscientific experiment.

I took two spare Glock plate screws, and one of the Glock MOS plates I wasn't using. I chased the screws and cleaned the threads up. I then installed both on the plate, one using Vibratite VC-3 (V) and one using some Versachem "245" blue (medium strenth, similar to Loctite 243, so call that one (L)). I've used this tube of 245 the past four years on Glock front sight posts with no issues.
.
.
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Anyway, I'll undo these tomorrow to see how they compare in loosening up, and post back anything interesting.

I'm (vaguely) recalling that the shelf life of blue Loctite is two years unopened, one year opened. Equally vaguely, that max. cure time is 24 hours, with shorter times at higher temperatures.

Looking forward to your results!!

[RJ]

If the Vibratite is stripped out when installed it usually indicates that too much was used... Only half the thread depth, or less, should be filled. That's a hard thing to do on tiny ass screws with shallow threads. I usually wipe my finger around the threads to remove the excess.

Gotcha. Makes sense.


I'm (vaguely) recalling that the shelf life of blue Loctite is two years unopened, one year opened. Equally vaguely, that max. cure time is 24 hours, with shorter times at higher temperatures.

Looking forward to your results!!

Good point about the Versachem stuff. I should probably pitch it.

Anything I conclude is going to be pretty subjective as I don’t want to use my torque wrench to unloosen them. To be honest, I was more curious to ‘practice’ a bit using the VC-3 since it’s what I plan to use when following C&H’s install procedure, which I found here:

http://chpws.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/MRDS-Mounting-22_MAY_2020.pdf

[Jim Watson]

I put Vibra Tite on my Nelson Conversion's guide rod threads because it was claimed to be cycled five times before needing another dose.
Nelson Conversion is a fine shooter on my least used 1911's frame but it is a jarring realization that something that LOOKS like a 1911 is a lot more trouble to take down.

[RJ]

So while I'm waiting for my plate to get here I decided to try a highly unscientific experiment.

I took two spare Glock plate screws, and one of the Glock MOS plates I wasn't using. I chased the screws and cleaned the threads up. I then installed both on the plate, one using Vibratite VC-3 (V) and one using some Versachem "245" blue (medium strenth, similar to Loctite 243, so call that one (L)). I've used this tube of 245 the past four years on Glock front sight posts with no issues.

67191

The (V) screw I prepped according to the directions. One drop, then allowed to dry 30 minutes. Then installed.

The (L) screw i put the blue threadlocker on just like I normally do on a sight post (just a bit) and installed it wet. It's curing now. I torqued both to 10 inch lbs using my Wheeler FAT gauge.

Couple observations. The (V) screw head seemed to go in fine, but there is a large amount of the polymer VC-3 residue that pooled up around the screw head. Also, I reread the instructions for my Wheeler and was surprised how tight 10 inch lbs actually is, when set to the red mark and torqued. Wheeler recommends a click, then two clicks past, to "set" the torque value. These tiny screws are pretty tight.

My tool arrived with a Calibration sheet indicating a set 10 inch lbs was an actual value of 9.6 in lbs, at least according to their metrology source at the Wheeler factory (probably somewhere in China, I reckon.) Close enough.

Anyway, I'll undo these tomorrow to see how they compare in loosening up, and post back anything interesting.

I took the plate this morning and twisted on both screws using a Torx T-10 T-handle driver I use frequently. I tried to put equal tension in the handle, and held the plate in my hand in my normal 3M Comfort Grip gloves I use working on cars and stuff.

...annnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnddd the results are...

There was no perceptible difference in the torque required to "unstick" the screws.

I find it interesting, that the "polymer" Vibra-tite strength was just about the same "feel" in removing as the Versachem product. Can't compare directly, but the feel is pretty much like when I remove a Glock front sight post screw for sight swaps, that kind of tightness (I've never torqued a Glock front sight screw, to be honest though.)

More interesting perhaps, as I continued to unwind the screws, the V screw was still uniformly hard to turn throughout the revolutions of the tool. In contrast, the L screw was much much easier to turn/remove, once I'd gotten past the release point. The conclusion I came to was the V application would tend to hold the screw in place, even if it moved slightly, than the L application.

As say, this test was unscientific, all measurements were done to Harbor Freight standards, and the usual warnings apply: don't try this at home, look before crossing, improper use may cause,serious injury, death, or worse; call your doctor if problem persists longer than four hours. :cool:

[Archer1440]

Once again, solid stick Loctite 248. VC3 is not suitable for these fine thread pitches.

But some people need to learn the hard way, I guess.

[P.E. Kelley]

Damn Gents! This is a great thread, if you can pardon the pun.

Good info and great reason for this forum!

Thanks.