So, Is There Enough of a Silent Majority To Stem the Tide?

[blues]

...or are we doomed?

Seems to me if we ever needed the (mostly silent) masses to rise up and put an end to this overwhelming wave of insanity, it's now.

Ironic that the antidote comes in a fairly hard to swallow orange pill, and a bunch of red ones that haven't proven that they offer much more than a placebo effect.

Nonetheless, that seems to be where we stand and where the line is drawn in the sand.

This goes well beyond just the 2A, imho, as the entire Bill of Rights seems up for grabs. Too many seem ready and willng to tear down the Constitution along with those fusty old statues and unnecessary police precincts that used to be a part of everyday life in America.

Is it possible to reinstall truth and rational thought as virtues to be pursued?

I fervently hope so, for the sake of the republic and the citizens whose blood and effort built and maintained this nation.

[Default.mp3]

https://www.smbc-comics.com/comics/1438181559-20150729.png

[blues]

^^^^This is one election where I almost won't care if the dead bodies rise up to vote Republican (for a change).

[entropy]

Every person I have spoken with is both fed up and quite frankly scared. Whether it’s about Covid/masks, riots, the non-existent school system, pick something. They’re quiet about it, but start to chat a while and they get comfortable enough to tell you how they lean with this. I’m concerned about fraud.

[blues]

Every person I have spoken with is both fed up and quite frankly scared. Whether it’s about Covid/masks, riots, the non-existent school system, pick something. They’re quiet about it, but start to chat a while and they get comfortable enough to tell you how they lean with this. I’m concerned about fraud.

In which direction? One, the other or both?

[randyho]

This goes well beyond just the 2A, imho, as the entire Bill of Rights seems up for grabs. Too many seem ready and willng to tear down the Constitution along with those fusty old statues and unnecessary police precincts that used to be a part of everyday life in America.

Recent events have me agreeing with this far more strongly than I would have in the past. With local governments ceding ground to include police precincts, the level of complicity is sort of stunning. And a backlash doesn't seem to be happening, yet. I'm hopeful for the next election cycle.

2a support is niche to a large extent. I hope that as people start to notice their favored non-niche amendments getting trampled, the liberals will show back up. I prefer them to the anarchists and marxists. I mean, are book burning and gulags on the horizon? Now, neither would surprise me.

The pendulum swinging back will depend on the supreme court showing back up as well. Their having not taken on ANY of the 2a cases this year was disappointing.

[JRB]

In which direction? One, the other or both?

I can only remember reading about two types of suddenly-discovered ballot piles; piles from overseas Soldiers, and piles of crucially needed (D) votes in pivotal swing states/areas.

I'm sure (R) fraud has happened, I just haven't seen the huge story about it. If a big pile of (R) ballots showed up somewhere in the past 20 years, I cannot fucking imagine how the news media wouldn't be screaming about it from the rooftops to this day. Heaven knows they tried like hell to find that voter fraud in 2016.

The next 6 months are going to be interesting.

[JTQ]

...or are we doomed?

Seems to me if we ever needed the (mostly silent) masses to rise up and put an end to this overwhelming wave of insanity, it's now.

Ironic that the antidote comes in a fairly hard to swallow orange pill, and a bunch of red ones that haven't proven that they offer much more than a placebo effect.


I think there are enough in the "silent majority" to right the ship, but I believe there are enough in that group who don't care for Trump, and won't vote for him on principle, and we'll end up with Biden.

I made my mistake with Ross Perot. I won't do that again. You really only have two options. I'm not a fan of Trump's delivery, but I'd prefer four more years of him than a Biden Presidency and the potential for Democratic control of the the House and Senate.

[jh9]

I'm sure (R) fraud has happened, I just haven't seen the huge story about it. If a big pile of (R) ballots showed up somewhere in the past 20 years, I cannot fucking imagine how the news media wouldn't be screaming about it from the rooftops to this day.

How about the last 2 years instead of 20?

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/two-more-arrested-in-connection-to-alleged-north-carolina-election-fraud

Elections are monitored by Republicans and Democrats each looking for any excuse to cry foul, especially in swing states or districts where the results deviate from the expected results by any significant margin. It's how people like the morons in NC got caught.

It's also why savvy election shenanigans don't tamper with ballots, they just strategically close polling places where the 'wrong' voters live. That's not only more effective, it's also legal.

[blues]

I think there are enough in the "silent majority" to right the ship, but I believe there are enough in that group who don't care for Trump, and won't vote for him on principle, and we'll end up with Biden.

I made my mistake with Ross Perot. I won't do that again. You really only have two options. I'm not a fan of Trump's delivery, but I'd prefer four more years of him than a Biden Presidency and the potential for Democratic control of the the House and Senate.

Yep. Hence the orange and red pills. Clothespin optional.

[45dotACP]

...or are we doomed?

Seems to me if we ever needed the (mostly silent) masses to rise up and put an end to this overwhelming wave of insanity, it's now.

Ironic that the antidote comes in a fairly hard to swallow orange pill, and a bunch of red ones that haven't proven that they offer much more than a placebo effect.

Nonetheless, that seems to be where we stand and where the line is drawn in the sand.

This goes well beyond just the 2A, imho, as the entire Bill of Rights seems up for grabs. Too many seem ready and willng to tear down the Constitution along with those fusty old statues and unnecessary police precincts that used to be a part of everyday life in America.

Is it possible to reinstall truth and rational thought as virtues to be pursued?

I fervently hope so, for the sake of the republic and the citizens whose blood and effort built and maintained this nation.

As many people believe that the liberal extremism is a existential threat to the country, there are a lot of people who believe that said orange pill is the same.

I think most people are certain the truth lies somewhere in the middle.

The thing that concerns me is the people who fervently believe one way or the other.

For instance. The statues thing. I could not give a single shit about some cheaply made statues of Confederate Hee-roes. For one, I don't believe in participation trophies for losers. Two, most of them were erected in a hurry because of that pesky civil rights movement. Had to remind those uppity black people where they lived. I believe the residents of those cities have every right to demand their removal to museums and if not that, then to protest and deface them. I say this as the descendant of a Confederate soldier.

Doesn't mean I'd be down with defacing statues of our founding fathers. Different story.

Yet the problem with both sides is that if I'm not with one 100 percent then I'm the Other Team here to make them get in the boxcars, and because I am trying to do that, then turnabout is fair play.

That's why I basically don't say shit. I have no intention of drawing the ire of the radicals, nor of participating in their nonsense. If either side pushes me too far I get sarcastic, and because neither side understands irony I will probably get into a fight. I don't think I'm alone in this.

I have deep concerns that Donald Trump is unfit to be president and even deeper concerns that Joe Biden is literally struggling with dementia. The fact that we've been saddled with these two dipshits doesn't give me hope for the intelligence or civic duty of my fellow Americans.


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[peterb]

...or are we doomed?

Seems to me if we ever needed the (mostly silent) masses to rise up and put an end to this overwhelming wave of insanity, it's now.

Ironic that the antidote comes in a fairly hard to swallow orange pill, and a bunch of red ones that haven't proven that they offer much more than a placebo effect.

Nonetheless, that seems to be where we stand and where the line is drawn in the sand.

This goes well beyond just the 2A, imho, as the entire Bill of Rights seems up for grabs. Too many seem ready and willng to tear down the Constitution along with those fusty old statues and unnecessary police precincts that used to be a part of everyday life in America.

Is it possible to reinstall truth and rational thought as virtues to be pursued?

I fervently hope so, for the sake of the republic and the citizens whose blood and effort built and maintained this nation.

If Trump and Biden are the best this nation can offer as leaders, God help us all. Looking to either for truth and rational thought is futile.

The system is badly broken.

[jh9]

The system is badly broken.

The system would work better if people treated the primaries like the playoffs. If everyone waits until election day to see which clown the circus sent then yeah, we're kind of screwed.

[JTQ]

The system would work better if people treated the primaries like the playoffs. If everyone waits until election day to see which clown the circus sent then yeah, we're kind of screwed.
I'm in my early 60's. I spent my entire life registered as an Independent. Before the 2016 election, I finally decided to become a Republican so I could have a say in the party's nominee.

Funny, I should end up with my last choice from a solid field of 17 candidates. Trump's not my guy, and man do I wish he'd get rid of his twitter account, but I'm voting for him because I don't think Biden would be a net good for the country.

[the Schwartz]

...or are we doomed?

Seems to me if we ever needed the (mostly silent) masses to rise up and put an end to this overwhelming wave of insanity, it's now.

Ironic that the antidote comes in a fairly hard to swallow orange pill, and a bunch of red ones that haven't proven that they offer much more than a placebo effect.

Nonetheless, that seems to be where we stand and where the line is drawn in the sand.

This goes well beyond just the 2A, imho, as the entire Bill of Rights seems up for grabs. Too many seem ready and willng to tear down the Constitution along with those fusty old statues and unnecessary police precincts that used to be a part of everyday life in America.

Is it possible to reinstall truth and rational thought as virtues to be pursued?

I fervently hope so, for the sake of the republic and the citizens whose blood and effort built and maintained this nation.

I have faith (you can think of me as irrational for having said so if you want) that the vast majority of folks are really good and will act to stop this (at the polls) even though I, along with many here, am constantly constantly bombarded by the media's coverage supporting the Left's agenda which makes the relative few making all of the noise seem to be a lot larger than they actually are.

[the Schwartz]

If Trump and Biden are the best this nation can offer as leaders, God help us all. Looking to either for truth and rational thought is futile.

The system is badly broken.

''I do not know if the people of the United States would vote for superior men if they ran for office, but there can be no doubt that such men do not run.''--Alexis de Tocqueville

[blues]

I have faith (you can think of me as irrational for having said so if you want) that the vast majority of folks are really good and will act to stop this (at the polls) even though I, along with many here, am constantly constantly bombarded by the media's coverage supporting the Left's agenda which makes the relative few making all of the noise seem to be a lot larger than they actually are.

I fervently hope that you are correct.

[Darth_Uno]

Evil triumphs when good men do nothing - problem is, the "silent majority" of good men have much better things to do than nothing. Meaning that the riots and protests don't really affect overall productive citizens, on the whole. They're busy with other things, and can afford to avoid the whole mess. At least until it's literally at their front door, like the couple in St. Louis.

[Chance]

It is entirely possible that my head is buried in the sand, but it seems to me that most folks are getting along about as well as they ever did. That's not necessarily a good thing, but is also not an existential threat to the republic.

If I spend even a tiny amount of time watching the news, my anxiety goes through the roof and I want to stock up on ammo. If I get out of the house and go get groceries, things don't seem that bad.

[Seven_Sicks_Two]

The media coverage isn't friendly to the sitting president, there is a global pandemic, economic uncertainty, and civil unrest. By many metrics, it has been a pretty crappy year for a lot of voters. It wouldn't surprise me at all if Biden won the election.

Will his inauguration be good for gun rights? It is almost certain that the answer to that is, "No". Will it be the end of the Republic? I'd like to believe the answer to that question is also, "No".

[blues]

Evil triumphs when good men do nothing - problem is, the "silent majority" of good men have much better things to do than nothing. Meaning that the riots and protests don't really affect overall productive citizens, on the whole. They're busy with other things, and can afford to avoid the whole mess. At least until it's literally at their front door, like the couple in St. Louis.

Hopefully, they'll see their choices at the ballot box something like this...and will only be sweating because they dodged the bullet.

58555

[41magfan]

It pains me a bit to say this, but with one minor exception I've voted for the lesser of evils candidate since 1976. It's my personal opinion that the country would be better off if this mindset was widely adopted instead of fault finding. Not voting - or voting for 3rd Party candidates - is a poor exercise of judgement.

[Welder]

I'm another one who will pull the R lever but who otherwise doesn't get involved in politics except to stay away from the extremists on both sides. I don't even know how a person like myself would even successfully run for office. People have lost the appreciation for the art of compromise. The fact is that reasonable people's opinions on how to run this country differ. And yet we must move forward in a united fashion. Where are the statesmen?

[Clusterfrack]

All else aside, the Portland riots are enough for me to cast my vote for Trump. This lawlessness cannot be allowed to succeed.

[Totem Polar]

blues, I agree with your assessment of the SOTU. What I don’t have is an answer. I fully expect that we shall see the answer early November.

[the Schwartz]

I fervently hope that you are correct.

Amen, sir.

[Caballoflaco]

As many people believe that the liberal extremism is a existential threat to the country, there are a lot of people who believe that said orange pill is the same.

I think most people are certain the truth lies somewhere in the middle.

The thing that concerns me is the people who fervently believe one way or the other.

For instance. The statues thing. I could not give a single shit about some cheaply made statues of Confederate Hee-roes. For one, I don't believe in participation trophies for losers. Two, most of them were erected in a hurry because of that pesky civil rights movement. Had to remind those uppity black people where they lived. I believe the residents of those cities have every right to demand their removal to museums and if not that, then to protest and deface them. I say this as the descendant of a Confederate soldier.

Doesn't mean I'd be down with defacing statues of our founding fathers. Different story.

Yet the problem with both sides is that if I'm not with one 100 percent then I'm the Other Team here to make them get in the boxcars, and because I am trying to do that, then turnabout is fair play.

That's why I basically don't say shit. I have no intention of drawing the ire of the radicals, nor of participating in their nonsense. If either side pushes me too far I get sarcastic, and because neither side understands irony I will probably get into a fight. I don't think I'm alone in this.

I have deep concerns that Donald Trump is unfit to be president and even deeper concerns that Joe Biden is literally struggling with dementia. The fact that we've been saddled with these two dipshits doesn't give me hope for the intelligence or civic duty of my fellow Americans.


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No, you are not. While I generally avoid day to day discussions on politics, when pushed by a true believer I tend towards the agree and amplify to levels of absurdity that would have had one institutionalized back when asylums still a thing.

[OfficeCat]

All else aside, the Portland riots are enough for me to cast my vote for Trump. This lawlessness cannot be allowed to succeed.

I don't even want to think about the scale of rioting if Trump is re-elected. The U.N. will be sending peacekeepers.

[Ichiban]

I haven't voted FOR anyone since 1980. Always the lesser of two evils. I do not like Trump as a person but have been in favor of many of his policies.

I think a Democratic victory (my brother is expecting a blue tsunami) would be an absolute disaster for the country that we would be unable to recover from.

God, I hate politics and politicians. Unfortunately, it seems everything has a political stench about it anymore.

58559

[Clusterfrack]

I don't even want to think about the scale of rioting if Trump is re-elected. The U.N. will be sending peacekeepers.

... to defend Antifa from oppression by US government forces? Only sort of kidding.

[Baldanders]

All else aside, the Portland riots are enough for me to cast my vote for Trump. This lawlessness cannot be allowed to succeed.

Why does anyone think that a president who couldn't prevent the disorder we have seen recently will be effective at doing so in a lame duck second term? Particularly if he faces two D bodies in the legislature?

His use of feds recently doesn't seem to have done a thing to quiet anything down. If anything, it seems to have accelerated the whole anti-cop/anti- government sentiment which is spreading like a wildfire through young men with much time on their hands if my current experiences are anything to go by. (If those young men are voting they are voting Libertarian, I would guess, many people really don't fit the left/right spectrum at all anymore) I understand a Trump vote as "not inviting even worse disorder" (I disagree, but I understand the logic) but I don't understand why anyone thinks he will show an ability to make anything better. Which he seems helpless to do now.

Is everyone here picking up on the new vibe of many folks who are now 100% 2A supporters and also 100% despise LE? I was just reading a bit on a guy who was an anti-gun activist a few years back who is now basically a milita-type now.

Government use of force on its citizens has a hard limit with an armed citizenry. Which we all knew, but I think many folks always envisioned that only coming from citizens who shared right-of-center views. Which obviously isn't true.

"Abolishing cops" is also a de facto "abolishment of gun laws" (and all laws) and a few of the folks advocating it know it. The ones who don't are in for some hard lessons soon.

[Robert Mitchum]

I truly think Trump is going to win.
I made a bunch of money 4 years ago betting on him against Clinton.

Use to gamble very heavy years ago ..most I put one 1 game was $20,000 on a Collage football 22 years ago.
My inner gut says Trump for the win .. most incumbents have a 80% chance of getting back in Office.
I feel trump has gone down because of all the BS that is going on.
So even if he is down 25 to 30% it should be close ..

I took Connecticut over Duke
Connecticut was a 9.5-point underdog back in 1999 Championship game.
Connecticut Won 77-74 (I hate Duke)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWB5JZRGl0U

[WDR]

In which direction? One, the other or both?

I'm more concerned with voter fraud coming from the left, than the right. It's plainly obvious that to them, the ends justify the means... almost any means. But I'm also not about to say that it can't happen going the other way.

I think if the media wasn't complicit and obviously biased, and if the law and/or the executive (in some places) wasn't inclined to side with the seditious and treasonous, there would be a lot more armed patriots in the streets, and maybe some watering of the tree of liberty. The fact that federal LE largely hasn't started really cracking skulls, despite 60-70something days of violence, in places like Portland, baffles me a bit. I understand why there has been so much restraint shown, but I have to think at some point, a limit will be reached. Both for the officers manning the riot lines,and for the public in general. If the violence ratchets up, all bets are off as to how the whole cookie crumbles, and there are lots of folks positioning themselves to take advantage of unrest and uncertainty. Full-tilt-Boogaloo wouldn't be pretty from any vantage point.

Guns and ammo are not flying off the shelves because Americans want to shoot tin cans and dirt clods... Folks are scared of the uncertainty, and I think most of them will come down on the side of law and order. They may think police brutality is real. They may think black lives matter. But they know, looking at places like the CHAZ, that at some point, help isn't coming. When folks realize they are on their own, they are inclined to be prepared. Most folks want the police to show up when they call 911, not a community outreach team. They don't want some anarchist "medic" coming to save them when the bullets start flying, they want a real EMT.

All that said... I have serious reservations about casting a vote for Trump. I'm conflicted I don't trust him on gun issues ( "take the guns first, due process later" and bumpstock executive overreach for starters). I think he's a bit of a buffoon, often putting his foot in his mouth when he speaks, and doubling down on it when he shouldn't. I do get the feeling that he really believes in American exceptionalism, business and capitalism driving our economy, and that the rest of the world needs to step up and start taking control of their own security, instead of letting the USA do all the heavy lifting. Because I believe he's a net positive for the economy and shares at least some of my world view, I'll likely cast my vote for him.

[JodyH]

The far left lunatic wing of the Democrat party (at all levels from dog catcher to Washington D.C.) needs to be booted out in November.
If that faction of the Democrat party gains actual power, it's over.

I'm optimistic there's enough people out there that are fed up with the bullshit and will vote in some actual moderates.
But I'm also prepping, working out 6 days a week and training martial arts 3 days a week because if that lunatic left does get power, shit is going to get sporty Venezuelan style real fucking fast.

[Borderland]

Trump has a decent chance to win. Hillary Clinton had a better chance to win and she lost. Sonny Liston ( 35-1 w/24 KO's) was heavily favored to beat Cassius Clay and he lost. Sometimes it just doesn't go the way it's supposed to.

Trump will probably die soon from eating too many Big Macs and Joe will probably wake up some morning real soon and wonder where he is and how he got there.

I don't see this as a real election. I see it as two political parties trying to undermine the constitution and reduce the US to a 3rd world country. All of the signs are there.

I'm not going to be a part of this insanity. If either party wants my vote they're going to have to produce a viable candidate. Until then I'm just a wrench in the gears of the now defunct political process.

May the best loser win.

[Clusterfrack]

I have a few thoughts about this.

1. Quieting things down, deescalating, etc. isn't the priority. If we think that way, Antifa has already won.

2. Enforcing the law and not allowing violent destruction to become the way we solve political difference is my priority. I don't want Antifa to succeed politically because they have used un-American and illegal means.

3. It's not the president's job to enforce laws here in Portland. However if major civil unrest or further attacks on Federal property and personnel occur after the election, the people involved will need to be dealt with.

4. At least around here, 99% of the problem is left-wing anarchists and anti-police BLM supporters. Maybe I hang out with law-abiding folks, but no one I know is anti-government, even if we have a president or governor that we don't like.




Why does anyone think that a president who couldn't prevent the disorder we have seen recently will be effective at doing so in a lame duck second term? Particularly if he faces two D bodies in the legislature?

His use of feds recently doesn't seem to have done a thing to quiet anything down. If anything, it seems to have accelerated the whole anti-cop/anti- government sentiment which is spreading like a wildfire through young men with much time on their hands if my current experiences are anything to go by. (If those young men are voting they are voting Libertarian, I would guess, many people really don't fit the left/right spectrum at all anymore) I understand a Trump vote as "not inviting even worse disorder" (I disagree, but I understand the logic) but I don't understand why anyone thinks he will show an ability to make anything better. Which he seems helpless to do now.

Is everyone here picking up on the new vibe of many folks who are now 100% 2A supporters and also 100% despise LE? I was just reading a bit on a guy who was an anti-gun activist a few years back who is now basically a milita-type now.

Government use of force on its citizens has a hard limit with an armed citizenry. Which we all knew, but I think many folks always envisioned that only coming from citizens who shared right-of-center views. Which obviously isn't true.

"Abolishing cops" is also a de facto "abolishment of gun laws" (and all laws) and a few of the folks advocating it know it. The ones who don't are in for some hard lessons soon.

[mmc45414]

I think the "Silent Majority" is just becoming a hell of a lot more silent.

I do not like DJT, I think he is an asshole, I have always thought he was an asshole, I do not like his ostentatious businesses or his blowhard personality or his contrived TV shows. I do not think the asshole ever did anything I liked until he beat HfuckingC for me, and that makes me ecstatic. He does something I do not like pretty much every day, but he ain't never done anything that made me wish HC was President.

I didn't like voting for him, but i will damn sure vote for him again. But I do not have a sign in my yard, I do not fly a No More Bullshit flag, I do not wear the red hat. But I for damn sure am going to vote for him again, I think the Russians have convinced me.

He is behind in the polls, just like last time...

ETA: Some of this is my line of work, I sell in an industry in a territory where I must assume people do not agree with me. Back to work in another week...

[Joe in PNG]

My general suspicion that that not matter who wins in Nov, a crackdown on Antifa is coming- and those useful idiots will continue to protest until the boot comes down.

Cracking down on your party's radicals is a good way to look more moderate which is a factor not lost on the Democrats. They'll use them to get votes in number, but will happily underbus them in January. The longer the useful idiots keep it up, the more support a crackdown will have.

[WDR]

Why does anyone think that a president who couldn't prevent the disorder we have seen recently will be effective at doing so in a lame duck second term? Particularly if he faces two D bodies in the legislature?

To make it simple, IMHO: It's not the Presidents job to quell a riot in Portland or Seattle. That is really on those states, and those cities, and their leadership, particularly those the let such things fester in their midst.

If Trump had sent in larger numbers of Federal LEO's, or the military, it would in the minds of some, justify greater and more violent force to further their agendas. This is a tactic that communists and marxists have used in other countries, in some cases with great success. Heavy handed government action can turn people against their government in a hurry.

I honestly don't see things changing much in PNW, even after all this. Frankly, the majority voters there WANT what is happening, at least at some level. It makes me sad, as my wife has family in the area, and I'd like to go visit again, but I am disinclined to visit places that have ceased to hold "American" values (admittedly, in my own mind), while enjoying the benefits of those same values.

Trump is powerless to protect the people against themselves. They get the government they deserve, and sometimes they get it good and hard. Unfortunately, I think we are all going to get it good and hard. I worry more about bullshit executive orders, and cruddy court appointments, than I do about what possible action the President could legally take against anarchist rioters. Being a lame duck, his give-a-shit may be broken, and we may see some really stupid shit. I don't honestly think the Democrats can take both the House and Senate, but if they do, in a veto proof majority, we, as a country will have much larger issues facing us than a few rioters in a left coast city. There will be a large push for abolishing the Electoral College, at state and federal levels, IMHO... they want "democracy" AKA: NY and LA values rule over the rest of us in the middle, and everything that entails, for starters.

[entropy]

In which direction? One, the other or both?


I grew up in Cook Co.

Is there more than one type?

[JodyH]

I think the "Silent Majority" is just becoming a hell of a lot more silent.

In the current doxxing, cancel culture, red flag, violently unhinged leftists atmosphere can you blame them?
It's at the point now a Trump sign in your yard is a good way to get your house burned down.
Just try saying something as innocuous as "I think all lives matter" and a legion of lefty lunatics will bombard your employer, friends and associates with endless calls and emails until you're a pariah.

[modrecoil]

I'm not optimistic.

Then there's this. A little farfetched but if there was ever a year for unlikely outcomes, it's 2020.

https://articlesofunity.org

[Baldanders]

I feel trump has gone down because of all the BS that is going on.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWB5JZRGl0U

Y'know what we say about feelings on this forum. 😉


Trump's main brilliance has been realizing if you don't own anything, then it's easy to deny responsibility for all bad outcomes.

As demonstrated by bunch of test kits sitting on docks assembled by the UAE, then never paid for and left to rot.

To all those who think Trump will rush in with federal reaction if things get "real bad"......you think it's not "real bad" now?

Or is "real bad" the same sort of moving goalpost as " Covid 19 death count that shows we needed an actual national response?"

ETA: I am always supportive of a link to a Motorhead song.

[mmc45414]

In the current doxxing, cancel culture, red flag, violently unhinged leftists atmosphere can you blame them?
In early 2017 I was leaving a productive sales call in Madison and the potential client was leaving at the same time, so I knew it was HER car that had the "Obama 2020" sticker on it. At that point I figured I better keep my pie hole shut (including on social media) until I didn't need this job anymore. And my wife operates a business in the same industry, so I am keeping my head down and my powder dry.

[Borderland]

In the current doxxing, cancel culture, red flag, violently unhinged leftists atmosphere can you blame them?
It's at the point now a Trump sign in your yard is a good way to get your house burned down.
Just try saying something as innocuous as "I think all lives matter" and a legion of lefty lunatics will bombard your employer, friends and associates with endless calls and emails until you're a pariah.

My neighbor is a Trump supporter. He had a Trump sign on his garage/shop in 2016. I ask him if he was going to put it up again this year and he said probably not. He said all of his neighbors were democrats and he didn't want to offend anyone (get firebombed). Actually all of his neighbors aren't democrats. I'm not and neither is the guy that lives next door (unpaid federal employee 2018). We just aren't Trump supporters. He is correct in that I think mostly everyone in the neighborhood are democrats. It is western WA after all.

In some places I can see a Trump supporter being a pariah. NM is bluer than WA (by legislature count) if you can believe that.

[Arbninftry]

I lived on the border once, so take this with a grain of salt....

I voted at my local precinct exactly 3 miles from the crossing, one of the many, and personally saw a bus unload 60+ people and saw that many get back on. Now my first inclination was shoppers or day laberors from across the fence. Nope everyone got in line to vote. And that bus made three trips while I was waiting to vote for an hour and a half. 2008.

So did that bus go across the line, if it did not then it was picking up folks damn close to it.

Until we have a real citizenship ID in place you will never be able to right this ship.

[mark7]

Anyone else considering the validity of the heavy hitters in the Dem Party actually work-shopping these ideas:
-respond to an apparent Trump re-election first by having Dem governors in Trump-supporting states send pro-Biden electors despite their states' vote totals
- then having the west coast states threaten to secede
- then encouraging a military coup.

This appears to be the leadership of the Dem Party, John Podesta prominent among them, actually plotting to overthrow the government and not even being secretive about it. If that isn't sedition, I must need a new dictionary.

Outlined here

https://www.breitbart.com/2020-election/2020/08/02/democrats-war-game-for-election-includes-west-coast-secession-possible-civil-war-john-podesta/

[wvincent]

I don't even want to think about the scale of rioting if Trump is re-elected. The U.N. will be sending peacekeepers.

"Send bachelors and come heavily armed"

[HCM]

I lived on the border once, so take this with a grain of salt....

I voted at my local precinct exactly 3 miles from the crossing, one of the many, and personally saw a bus unload 60+ people and saw that many get back on. Now my first inclination was shoppers or day laberors from across the fence. Nope everyone got in line to vote. And that bus made three trips while I was waiting to vote for an hour and a half. 2008.

So did that bus go across the line, if it did not then it was picking up folks damn close to it.

Until we have a real citizenship ID in place you will never be able to right this ship.

You know there are a shitload of US citizens who live South of the line for family and economic reasons and work / shop etc in the US, yes ?

[fixer]

The far left lunatic wing of the Democrat party (at all levels from dog catcher to Washington D.C.) needs to be booted out in November.
If that faction of the Democrat party gains actual power, it's over.

I'm optimistic there's enough people out there that are fed up with the bullshit and will vote in some actual moderates.
But I'm also prepping, working out 6 days a week and training martial arts 3 days a week because if that lunatic left does get power, shit is going to get sporty Venezuelan style real fucking fast.

Right where I'm at too.

Trump is the (realistic) candidate standing in the gap between a semblance of normalcy and outright communism.

Easy choice.

[Borderland]

I lived on the border once, so take this with a grain of salt....

I voted at my local precinct exactly 3 miles from the crossing, one of the many, and personally saw a bus unload 60+ people and saw that many get back on. Now my first inclination was shoppers or day laberors from across the fence. Nope everyone got in line to vote. And that bus made three trips while I was waiting to vote for an hour and a half. 2008.

So did that bus go across the line, if it did not then it was picking up folks damn close to it.

Until we have a real citizenship ID in place you will never be able to right this ship.




If you have never lived in the US, you can probably still register to vote.

Thirty-seven states and the District of Columbia extend voting rights to the children of their former residents who have never resided in the US. Unfortunately, thirteen US states do not extend voting rights to citizens who have never lived in the US. For the latest information concerning each state's position on the subject, please refer to the FVAP website (www.fvap.gov). ACA encourages US citizens living abroad to register and vote in the state where they last resided, or in the state in which their parents last resided if permitted by the law of that state.


Arizona
A U.S. citizen who has never resided in the U.S. and has a parent or legal guardian that was last registered to vote in Arizona is eligible to vote in Arizona.
California
A U.S. citizen who has never resided in the U.S., and has a parent or legal guardian who last resided in California, is eligible to vote in California, as long as the parent or legal guardian has not registered or voted in another state.
New Mexico
A U.S. citizen who has never resided in the U.S. and has a parent or legal guardian that was last domiciled in New Mexico is eligible to vote in New Mexico.


A federal ID isn't going to solve your problem with people (presumably citizens) crossing the border to vote. State laws vary as far as residency. 10A.

[fixer]

...or are we doomed?

Seems to me if we ever needed the (mostly silent) masses to rise up and put an end to this overwhelming wave of insanity, it's now.

Ironic that the antidote comes in a fairly hard to swallow orange pill, and a bunch of red ones that haven't proven that they offer much more than a placebo effect.

Nonetheless, that seems to be where we stand and where the line is drawn in the sand.

This goes well beyond just the 2A, imho, as the entire Bill of Rights seems up for grabs. Too many seem ready and willng to tear down the Constitution along with those fusty old statues and unnecessary police precincts that used to be a part of everyday life in America.

Is it possible to reinstall truth and rational thought as virtues to be pursued?

I fervently hope so, for the sake of the republic and the citizens whose blood and effort built and maintained this nation.

I think there is sufficient numbers to stem the tide this time around.

The problem is 2024 and beyond.

I think things will get worse before they get better.

[Borderland]

The far left lunatic wing of the Democrat party (at all levels from dog catcher to Washington D.C.) needs to be booted out in November.
If that faction of the Democrat party gains actual power, it's over.

I'm optimistic there's enough people out there that are fed up with the bullshit and will vote in some actual moderates.
But I'm also prepping, working out 6 days a week and training martial arts 3 days a week because if that lunatic left does get power, shit is going to get sporty Venezuelan style real fucking fast.

This won't be a moderation election, anything but. For almost 4 years we've had a divisive president and a divisive media. People actually believe those posting on twitter and the media hype. Now we're going to get it in truckloads before the election. Actually, this all started in the 2016 election. This one will be far worse. My guess is voter turnout will be yuge.

[JodyH]

Actually, this all started in the 2016 election.
US politics jumped into the Hell bound handbasket starting with Bush v Gore 2000.

[blues]

US politics jumped into the Hell bound handbasket starting with Bush v Gore 2000.

https://cdn.cnn.com/cnnnext/dam/assets/151102082541-bush-gore-2000-large-169.jpg

"Lock box!"

[UNK]

I have to think the average American is fed up. Theres a whole lot more middle class home owning kid raising families than anything else.
One problem is for some reason small percentages of individuals get an inordinate amount of coverage.
No doubt life long dem voters, who came from life long families of Dem voters, switched parties in the last and this election. To me that is a huge indicator of dissatifaction.
We all live in our bubbles. As evidenced by the last election threads on this forum some of the people had views and projections that were completely wrong. Now these were some by and large successful people who apparently didnt mingle enough with the middle class to get a feel of the pulse of the nation.
I personally was sure DJT was going to win but admittedly that wasnt without angst.
I feel the same way this time but I see even more alignment against him this time around. I expect at this point hes gonna win.
Even though they are much maligned here I mostly read news from Breitbart, Gateway Pundit, OAN, Whatfinger, Epoch Times, Conservative Treehouse and then different sources linked within those sites. It helps in staying positive. Another thing is to watch the WH Briefings and press conferences.
Right now Im still calling for Trump. Its no exaggeration hes fighting forces from across the Globe. Lets hope hes successful.

[UNK]

US politics jumped into the Hell bound handbasket starting with Bush v Gore 2000.

I think it goes back a lot further than that. My earliest recollection of Presidents is Nixon. Its amazing this country has survived this many thoroughly incompetent and compromised presidents. I dont think its exaggeration to say we are on the edge of the precipice. To pull us back from that, Im not sure it can be done but I remain hopeful.

[Baldanders]

US politics jumped into the Hell bound handbasket starting with Bush v Gore 2000.

I see things as more of a "frog in the slowly heating pan of water" situation.

Gulf War I is when the 24 hour news cycle started to dominate political discussions, and maybe the first time a pr firm helped get us in a war, paid for by the Kuwaitis with testimonies of atrocities by the Iraqis provided by convincing witnesses who weren't even in the country.

Bill Clinton made the "third way" the new ideology of the Democratic Party, narrowing the economic policy differences between the two parties to almost nothing, leading to the domination of single-issue politics/culture war issues in electoral politics. Then the whole Lewensky thing was the solidification of the 24 hour news cycle, and Fox took it's role as GOP mouthpiece/leader and the "reporting on what the other guy is reporting " point/counterpoint thing began.

The extended Bush v Gore showdown in FL fell right into all of the above.

We've have had a failure of leadership in this country, which is on us in a democracy. The increasing tit-for-tat/horserace nature of "reporting ," and the decreasing level of attention to policy or the long-term results of it, and the relentless drive for dopamine hits has helped push this. But they can only sell if we buy, and we have shown a great interest in the product.

[Kanye Wyoming]

The madness started with Bork in 1987.

The year before, Scalia was confirmed 98-0.

[Bio]

The madness started with Bork in 1987.

The year before, Scalia was confirmed 98-0.

And Merrick Garland didn't even get a vote.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

The madness started with Bork in 1987.

The year before, Scalia was confirmed 98-0.



Although an opponent of gun control,[57] Bork denounced what he called the "NRA view" of the Second Amendment, something he described as the "belief that the constitution guarantees a right to Teflon-coated bullets." Instead, he argued that the Second Amendment merely guarantees a right to participate in a government militia.[58]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Bork

Great guy for us non militia types.

[Kanye Wyoming]

And Merrick Garland didn't even get a vote.
Bork happened before Merrick Garland. Merrick Garland was the logical result of the chain reaction set off by the Bork nomination, as intensified by Biden in 1991 in the Thomas hearings, as refined by Biden in 1992 when he said there shouldn't be consideration until after the election of a nomination of a Justice appointed by a lame duck president in an election year when the Senate is controlled by the opposite party, as further refined by Biden in 2016 when he thought that would be okay because reasons.

So yeah, Merrick Garland didn't even get a vote in the same way that Egypt didn't even get a vote about whether its air force should exist after June 5, 1967, and they did nothing to provoke the destruction of their air force other than vowing the destruction of Israel and blockading the Red Sea.

[Bio]

Bork happened before Merrick Garland. Merrick Garland was the logical result of the chain reaction set off by the Bork nomination, as intensified by Biden in 1991 in the Thomas hearings, as refined by Biden in 1992 when he said there shouldn't be consideration until after the election of a nomination of a Justice appointed by a lame duck president in an election year when the Senate is controlled by the opposite party, as further refined by Biden in 2016 when he thought that would be okay because reasons.

So yeah, Merrick Garland didn't even get a vote in the same way that Egypt didn't even get a vote about whether its air force should exist after June 5, 1967, and they did nothing to provoke the destruction of their air force other than vowing the destruction of Israel and blockading the Red Sea.


I'm not saying the Garland non-vote was unprovoked, I'm saying it was a continuation of the same trend. I think in general saying the "they did this, so we'll do worse" only makes things worse for everybody, and it's a poor defense for a poor action.

[Kanye Wyoming]

I'm not saying the Garland non-vote was unprovoked, I'm saying it was a continuation of the same trend. I think in general saying the "they did this, so we'll do worse" only makes things worse for everybody, and it's a poor defense for a poor action.
So we just can’t figure out how it started, I guess.

September 2, 1939: A peaceful protest by Wehrmacht conscripts along the Polish border intensified yesterday. The UN cautioned that Poland would be held equally responsible for any resultant violence.

[Bio]

So we just can’t figure out how it started, I guess.

September 2, 1939: A peaceful protest by Wehrmacht conscripts along the Polish border intensified yesterday. The UN cautioned that Poland would be held equally responsible for any resultant violence.

I don't think war between sovereign countries is the same as political differences within a nation at peace.

I absolutely think that Bork got unjustly hosed by the Democrats. I wish they would have paid for their action in a way that would prevent this kind of thing from ever happening again. Tit for tat escalation got us to a really crappy place, though, where both parties feel pretty free to ignore their constitutionally proscribed responsibilities if they can get away with it. Just because "they did it first" doesn't mean we're better off right now. I don't know the right response, because the situation sucks.

[Half Moon]

I think most of this begins with Clinton-Gingrich. Essentially the torch pass from the WW II generation to the Vietnam generation. Politically there was a greater respect for institutional norms and willingness to compromise prior. There was also greater ideological diversity in both parties. As the no compromise, purists gained greater control, on both sides, the machine of government began grinding. Ironically there are good governance measures like term limits and eliminating ear marks that have also helped de-oil the gears. Add in the Internet to help solidify niches and here we are. How we restore things??? Once institutional respect is gone turning it back seems like a monumental task. No good answers.

[Totem Polar]

It began with the rise of the internet, defunding real journalism. The propaganda machines that replaced what used to be reporting quickly split the psychosocial spoils down the middle, giving us our Bush V Gore margins. At this point, we’ve all been divvied up.

[JodyH]

It began with the rise of the internet,
So it is Al Gore's fault.

[Bio]

I think most of this begins with Clinton-Gingrich. Essentially the torch pass from the WW II generation to the Vietnam generation. Politically there was a greater respect for institutional norms and willingness to compromise prior. There was also greater ideological diversity in both parties. As the no compromise, purists gained greater control, on both sides, the machine of government began grinding. Ironically there are good governance measures like term limits and eliminating ear marks that have also helped de-oil the gears. Add in the Internet to help solidify niches and here we are. How we restore things??? Once institutional respect is gone turning it back seems like a monumental task. No good answers.

If anybody has read up on Strauss-Howe generational theory, this aligns pretty closely.

[JodyH]

Ask any anthropologist who's worth a shit if a tribe of 330 million humans would ever work out in the long run.
Identity politics and Internet echo chambers are nothing more than natural tribal instincts coming out.
We will split up into smaller groups eventually, it's just a matter of how soon and how amicable those splits will be.

I think the Internet, 24/7 newsfotainment and lack of any real hardship or common outside enemy has made everyone actually look around at their neighbors and they often don't like what they see.
Anonymous (and even "real name") social media has really opened my eyes to how much I really, really dislike a high percentage of my "fellow Americans".

I think the founders stumbled onto a good thing when they envisioned separate independent states with a weak federal government.
If we'd have stuck to that plan we'd have 50 smaller "tribes" right now and I think we'd all be better off.

[Arbninftry]

You know there are a shitload of US citizens who live South of the line for family and economic reasons and work / shop etc in the US, yes ?
Sure, I do know this. But when my dog gets a letter to register to Vote in El Paso, something is really wrong. We need a Real ID that show citizenship, not residency. California hands out DLs like Food Stamps.

[Arbninftry]

And Merrick Garland didn't even get a vote.

So what, the Senate gets to decide who gets a vote or not. and honestly as Anti gun as he was, that is a good thing.

[HCM]

Sure, I do know this. But when my dog gets a letter to register to Vote in El Paso, something is really wrong. We need a Real ID that show citizenship, not residency. California hands out DLs like Food Stamps.

Your dog voted for Beto didn’t he?

CA issues DLs to illegal does but TX doesn’t.

[Arbninftry]

Your dog voted for Beto didn’t he?

CA issues DLs to illegal does but TX doesn’t.

Yep he was guilty for voting for him. LOL

Yes sir, and how many other states issue DLs to illegals. I believe NY and there might be a couple others. Then how hard is it to wait a few years and move to a new state like say NM, where there are places like Sunland Park that are so corrupt the DL office sells you info. Or how long do they wait to go to a naive state to get a DL from that state, and then start voting. I know several that go get SNAP at those states. My state is one, Oklahoma, the only thing we can ask for is a DL, if they have that we can not go any further down a rabbit hole of whether or not they are citizens. Its a messed up system, and people can take advantage of the voting, just like SNAP. That's all I am saying, we just need a real ID system for citizenship to be eligible to vote. But we all know, that will never happen.

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/new-mexico/articles/2019-09-20/southern-new-mexico-city-fire-chief-indicted-on-embezzlement

https://www.foxnews.com/world/us-cracks-down-on-border-town-corruption

https://nmpolitics.net/index/2012/04/officials-trying-to-stop-longstanding-corruption-in-sunland-park/

[willie]

As many people believe that the liberal extremism is a existential threat to the country, there are a lot of people who believe that said orange pill is the same.

I think most people are certain the truth lies somewhere in the middle.

The thing that concerns me is the people who fervently believe one way or the other.

For instance. The statues thing. I could not give a single shit about some cheaply made statues of Confederate Hee-roes. For one, I don't believe in participation trophies for losers. Two, most of them were erected in a hurry because of that pesky civil rights movement. Had to remind those uppity black people where they lived. I believe the residents of those cities have every right to demand their removal to museums and if not that, then to protest and deface them. I say this as the descendant of a Confederate soldier.

Doesn't mean I'd be down with defacing statues of our founding fathers. Different story.

Yet the problem with both sides is that if I'm not with one 100 percent then I'm the Other Team here to make them get in the boxcars, and because I am trying to do that, then turnabout is fair play.

That's why I basically don't say shit. I have no intention of drawing the ire of the radicals, nor of participating in their nonsense. If either side pushes me too far I get sarcastic, and because neither side understands irony I will probably get into a fight. I don't think I'm alone in this.

I have deep concerns that Donald Trump is unfit to be president and even deeper concerns that Joe Biden is literally struggling with dementia. The fact that we've been saddled with these two dipshits doesn't give me hope for the intelligence or civic duty of my fellow Americans.


Sent from my moto g(6) using Tapatalk

Most Confederate monuments were erected between 1889 and 1929. Of those found at court houses, most of these were made by 1912. Various memorial societies funded most of them which is one reason that 55 percent were dedicated to the dead. The modern Civil Rights Movement, if determined by activism and widespread participation, began about 1950 and continues as an on-going phenomenon.

[Jim Watson]

Yes, the one here that is causing great distress to the descendants of sharecroppers too poor to own a servant was put up in 1903. Frankly, I would move it to the war dead section of the cemetery as they wish and then say "You got it, now go away."

[Sensei]

Ask any anthropologist who's worth a shit if a tribe of 330 million humans would ever work out in the long run.
Identity politics and Internet echo chambers are nothing more than natural tribal instincts coming out.
We will split up into smaller groups eventually, it's just a matter of how soon and how amicable those splits will be.

I think the Internet, 24/7 newsfotainment and lack of any real hardship or common outside enemy has made everyone actually look around at their neighbors and they often don't like what they see.
Anonymous (and even "real name") social media has really opened my eyes to how much I really, really dislike a high percentage of my "fellow Americans".

I think the founders stumbled onto a good thing when they envisioned separate independent states with a weak federal government.
If we'd have stuck to that plan we'd have 50 smaller "tribes" right now and I think we'd all be better off.

Yep. Remember how patriotic everyone was in the weeks after 9/11 when the expectation was a dirty bomb mushroom cloud might appear over Chicago, or LA’s smog might get replaced with Sadam’s mustard gas? People acted like it was 1962 and Khrushchev had parked some SS-4s and R-14s 90 miles from Miami.

As a colleague of mine once wrote, “If Coyotes Were as Big as Minivans...”

http://journals.lww.com/em-news/Fulltext/2006/02000/If_Coyotes_Were_as_Big_as_Minivans.8.aspx

[Oldherkpilot]

Yep. Remember how patriotic everyone was in the weeks after 9/11 when the expectation was a dirty bomb mushroom cloud might appear over Chicago, or LA’s smog might get replaced with Sadam’s mustard gas? People acted like it was 1962 and Khrushchev had parked some SS-4s and R-14s 90 miles from Miami.

As a colleague of mine once wrote, “If Coyotes Were as Big as Minivans...”

http://journals.lww.com/em-news/Fulltext/2006/02000/If_Coyotes_Were_as_Big_as_Minivans.8.aspx

I must admit your friend Frank is into something with the Coyotes of Unusual Size. I expect the gene pool would clean up pretty quickly.

[Sensei]

I must admit your friend Frank is into something with the Coyotes of Unusual Size. I expect the gene pool would clean up pretty quickly.

Edwin Leap wrote that. More of his work can be found here: https://edwinleap.com/

[Suvorov]

I think the founders stumbled onto a good thing when they envisioned separate independent states with a weak federal government.
If we'd have stuck to that plan we'd have 50 smaller "tribes" right now and I think we'd all be better off.

The problem is that weak federal government is no longer weak, and seldom uses its massive power to enforce the things it was originally mandated to enforce.

I’m sadly coming to the conclusion that we have gotten so far off the rails that the only question is how fast the train wreck will be and how deep the gorge is. I am comforted in knowing that most “falls” in human history occur over decades or even centuries so ourselves and even our kids will be able to enjoy the greatest civilization humanity has ever achieved, but as Mr Scott was fond of saying - “I don’t know how much more she can take!”

[JodyH]

Anybody watched the pro-MAGA rally going on in West Hollywood and Beverly Hills?
Between that and Fort Collins citizens routing the Aunt Tifa bitches I'm starting to feel a disturbance in the force, as if a million snowflakes all melted at once.

[Borderland]

Anybody watched the pro-MAGA rally going on in West Hollywood and Beverly Hills?
Between that and Fort Collins citizens routing the Aunt Tifa bitches I'm starting to feel a disturbance in the force, as if a million snowflakes all melted at once.


Sum Ting Wong. Probably a movie production. Disregard.

[JodyH]

Large turnout for "Back the Blue" in Seattle.

[Kyle Reese]

Large turnout for "Back the Blue" in Seattle.

The media talking heads will be attributing new C19 cases with Back the Blue rallies in coming days and weeks.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[RJ]

I don’t normally go for this kind of thing, but I ran across this video that made the hair on the back of my neck stand on end.


https://youtu.be/gFIdahVwyB4

[fixer]

Anybody watched the pro-MAGA rally going on in West Hollywood and Beverly Hills?
Between that and Fort Collins citizens routing the Aunt Tifa bitches I'm starting to feel a disturbance in the force, as if a million snowflakes all melted at once.

I noticed John Tiegen organized some resistance in CO as well.

Nice.

[blues]

Can you fellas who want to discuss dream analysis or religion please start a separate thread so as not to unnecessarily dilute and sidetrack this one?

Thank you.

[Jim Watson]

Pre Covid, pre Floyd, I thought Trump was in excellent position to be reelected, after 9 months of battering by the propagandists, I now fear not.
I don't think there IS a "silent majority," I think it is a minority of sensible people.
Half the electorate is lost to him; women lean Democrat, not to mention they are angry that his wife is prettier than they are.
Minorities like black, Latino, Asiatic, and Jewish lean Democrat.
Add in the dreaming Liberal and outright socialist men and I think he will be out.
Then the "country club Republicans" can return to their comfortable position as the "loyal opposition" and beg for bipartisan tidbits.

[DC_P]

September 2, 1939: A peaceful protest by Wehrmacht conscripts along the Polish border intensified yesterday. The UN cautioned that Poland would be held equally responsible for any resultant violence.

So the whole 'in what started as a peaceful protest' thing is not new. If only we could get the other side to be held in any way, much less equally, responsible...

[blues]

Pre Covid, pre Floyd, I thought Trump was in excellent position to be reelected, after 9 months of battering by the propagandists, I now fear not.
I don't think there IS a "silent majority," I think it is a minority of sensible people.
Half the electorate is lost to him; women lean Democrat, not to mention they are angry that his wife is prettier than they are.
Minorities like black, Latino, Asiatic, and Jewish lean Democrat.
Add in the dreaming Liberal and outright socialist men and I think he will be out.
Then the "country club Republicans" can return to their comfortable position as the "loyal opposition" and beg for bipartisan tidbits.

While I agree with you that it's certainly possible that there is only a "minority of sensible people", I, (at least philosophically want to), disagree with the broad monolithic characterizations of entire segments of the population.

But I take your point, regardless.

[RoyGBiv]

We will know in early November.

IMO, the tolerance for criminal protests is ending. Lots of Back The Blue activity is building momentum.

The anarchists and opportunistic criminals are about to find out that people will take care of themselves when the police are prevented from doing their job. As THAT behavior builds momentum and the folks bringing the fight don't get charged for defending themselves, you'll see a lot more of it. Then the rest of the folks afraid of getting cancelled will come into the daylight and be heard.

[blues]

We will know in early November.

IMO, the tolerance for criminal protests is ending. Lots of Back The Blue activity is building momentum.

The anarchists and opportunistic criminals are about to find out that people will take care of themselves when the police are prevented from doing their job. As THAT behavior builds momentum and the folks bringing the fight don't get charged for defending themselves, you'll see a lot more of it. Then the rest of the folks afraid of getting cancelled will come into the daylight and be heard.

I hope you're right, RGB.

[ER_STL]

Personally blues, I don't think Biden will win. Trump may have been battered for four years and often did his best to lose the election, but Biden and the hard left aren't going to be a viable alternative for the middle-ground voters who decide the election. Right is going to vote right and left is going to vote left and the middle should still see Trump as the best choice.

Overall as a nation I think we're still going to continue to see a push to move left, the reasons for which probably are for a different thread. It's just going to take a little longer than this election.

[Kanye Wyoming]

In the battleground states where the election will be decided, I’d guess there are 43% who would vote for the D even if the D was a Cornish Hen, and 43% who’d vote for the R even if the R was a Cornish Hen.

I’d guess further that most of those remaining 14% don’t much care for Trump, but that more than half of them care less for the alternative as it’s being advertised in Portland, Seattle, New York, Chicago, etc., and/or have serious doubts about Biden’s mental state.

All the Ds had to do was not be fg insane, and nominate a candidate who wasn’t non compos mentis or frightening, and they would have waltzed to victory. Like a Klobuchar. Or, though they didn’t run, someone along the lines of a Synema or Manchin or Chris Coons.

[Inspector71]

Silent majority starting to speak out:
https://www.benningtonbanner.com/stories/guns-a-mask-and-a-lot-of-concerns,611095

[Baldanders]

Silent majority starting to speak out:
https://www.benningtonbanner.com/stories/guns-a-mask-and-a-lot-of-concerns,611095

Open carry dude scares folks in a very liberal area? What is he accomplishing?

After reading the article, I still have no idea what his actual political beliefs or concerns are, besides "I gotta right to open carry."

Seems like a good example of "carrying at" people. Maybe if he inspires other people, they can get open carry banned, or make it as problematic as it is in Texas now.

Sounds like an idiot.

[Baldanders]

Personally blues, I don't think Biden will win. Trump may have been battered for four years and often did his best to lose the election, but Biden and the hard left aren't going to be a viable alternative for the middle-ground voters who decide the election. Right is going to vote right and left is going to vote left and the middle should still see Trump as the best choice.

Overall as a nation I think we're still going to continue to see a push to move left, the reasons for which probably are for a different thread. It's just going to take a little longer than this election.

I'm not calling the election for Biden by any means.

But everyone remembers Trump LOST the popular vote last time, right?

Best case case scenario for Trump is probably another skin-of-his-teeth victory, followed at least two years of facing a Democratic majority in both houses. Which probably means he might have some victories 2.5 years from now. Maybe.

He has zero lasting positive legacy from term one so far. Not a thing. Oh, I guess he still pisses off the right people, if you think that's a plus in a crisis. Yes, yes, I know, not his fault. Poor Little Hands and his shit luck, and wiley enemies like the Chinese, Soros, and BLM that he has been helpless to stop. Not to mention the Lincoln Project Republicans spending big bucks against him, those traitors. And the Deep State. And the MSM.

I see a close Trump victory as probably the best case scenario for overwhelming far left Democratic victories on the state and national level two years from now.

[Baldanders]

In the battleground states where the election will be decided, I’d guess there are 43% who would vote for the D even if the D was a Cornish Hen, and 43% who’d vote for the R even if the R was a Cornish Hen.

I’d guess further that most of those remaining 14% don’t much care for Trump, but that more than half of them care less for the alternative as it’s being advertised in Portland, Seattle, New York, Chicago, etc., and/or have serious doubts about Biden’s mental state.

All the Ds had to do was not be fg insane, and nominate a candidate who wasn’t non compos mentis or frightening, and they would have waltzed to victory. Like a Klobuchar. Or, though they didn’t run, someone along the lines of a Synema or Manchin or Chris Coons.

The wide perception that Trump has been ineffective in handling Covid 19 won't play any factor?

What happens if no riots in weeks by early November, but we still have around 1k Americans dying from Covid daily?

Guess Little Hands better pray for riots.

[randyho]

The wide perception that Trump has been ineffective in handling Covid 19nope


What happens if no riots in weeks by early November, but we still have around 1k Americans dying from Covid daily?
If anyone can math, they'll know we're well ahead of the game.


Guess Little Hands better pray for riots.
I certainly hope so. Much like CNN did in 2016, they're electing DJT again.

[tadawson]

I'm not calling the election for Biden by any means.

But everyone remembers Trump LOST the popular vote last time, right?

Best case case scenario for Trump is probably another skin-of-his-teeth victory, followed at least two years of facing a Democratic majority in both houses. Which probably means he might have some victories 2.5 years from now. Maybe.

He has zero lasting positive legacy from term one so far. Not a thing. Oh, I guess he still pisses off the right people, if you think that's a plus in a crisis. Yes, yes, I know, not his fault. Poor Little Hands and his shit luck, and wiley enemies like the Chinese, Soros, and BLM that he has been helpless to stop. Not to mention the Lincoln Project Republicans spending big bucks against him, those traitors. And the Deep State. And the MSM.

I see a close Trump victory as probably the best case scenario for overwhelming far left Democratic victories on the state and national level two years from now.

Zero positive legacy? Are you nuts? Trump got more done than Barry the fairy in his first year and didn't look back . . . and, frankly, I dom't have the time or motivation to compile a list for someone who so completely manages to miss the totally obvious . . .

What I see is very little negative (well, unless viewing through libtard glasses . . .).

[JodyH]

Trump will crush Biden.
It's going to be a humiliating loss for the Democrats at all levels.

[Half Moon]

Zero positive legacy? Are you nuts? Trump got more done than Barry the fairy in his first year and didn't look back . . . and, frankly, I dom't have the time or motivation to compile a list for someone who so completely manages to miss the totally obvious . . .

What I see is very little negative (well, unless viewing through libtard glasses . . .).

Well, yes, only someone wearing libtard glasses could look at a doddering, egomaniac failing the test of a simple, slow moving crisis with obvious solutions, like COVID-19, and question whether we will be graced with no faster moving crisis in the next four years, and wonder whether the President's OODA loop is adequate to the worst case. Afterall:

#OrangeManGod (https://pistol-forum.com/usertag.php?do=list&action=hash&hash=OrangeManGod)

[FNFAN]

"Biden’s Texas Political Director Implicated in Massive Mail-In Ballot Harvesting Scheme in Harris County"

"A Biden Campaign operative in Texas is attempting to rig the 2020 election with the help of others in a massive ballot harvesting scheme, according to two private investigators who testified under oath that they have “video evidence, documentation and witnesses” to prove it. With the help of mass mail-in ballots, the illegal ballot harvesting operation could harvest 700,000 ballots, one Harris County Democrat operative allegedly bragged.

The investigators—a former FBI agent and former police officer—claim that Biden’s Texas Political Director Dallas Jones and his cohorts have been “hoarding mail-in and absentee ballots” and ordering operatives to them fill out for people in Harris County illegally, “including dead people, homeless people, and nursing home residents in the 2020 presidential election,” Patrick Howley of the National File reported.

While law enforcement agencies are reportedly investigating these potential crimes, nothing will be done about it until “well after the November 3, 2020 election” the former FBI agent said."

https://amgreatness.com/2020/09/28/bidens-texas-political-director-implicated-in-massive-mail-in-ballot-harvesting-scheme-in-harris-county/

Pretty interesting. If they can pull 700,000 ballots out of each big city it won't matter how we vote.

[Borderland]

"Biden’s Texas Political Director Implicated in Massive Mail-In Ballot Harvesting Scheme in Harris County"

"A Biden Campaign operative in Texas is attempting to rig the 2020 election with the help of others in a massive ballot harvesting scheme, according to two private investigators who testified under oath that they have “video evidence, documentation and witnesses” to prove it. With the help of mass mail-in ballots, the illegal ballot harvesting operation could harvest 700,000 ballots, one Harris County Democrat operative allegedly bragged.

The investigators—a former FBI agent and former police officer—claim that Biden’s Texas Political Director Dallas Jones and his cohorts have been “hoarding mail-in and absentee ballots” and ordering operatives to them fill out for people in Harris County illegally, “including dead people, homeless people, and nursing home residents in the 2020 presidential election,” Patrick Howley of the National File reported.

While law enforcement agencies are reportedly investigating these potential crimes, nothing will be done about it until “well after the November 3, 2020 election” the former FBI agent said."

https://amgreatness.com/2020/09/28/bidens-texas-political-director-implicated-in-massive-mail-in-ballot-harvesting-scheme-in-harris-county/

Pretty interesting. If they can pull 700,000 ballots out of each big city it won't matter how we vote.

Private investigators? Texas must be short on potential divorce cases.

[blues]

Private investigators? Texas must be short on potential divorce cases.

Oh, I thought they were "Pirate Investigators" since the Dems were alleged to be trying to plunder the election.

[rcbusmc24]

Yesterday I drove from Jacksonville NC up to South Boston VA in order to set up a long range Helo Raid for 24th MEU Maritime Response Force. We took mostly back roads due to being speed limited in Gov't trucks... The only place I saw Biden lawn signs was in the City of Durham near Duke... The second you hit the city limits on either side it was back to solid Trump signs. Not a huge surprise and possibly not indicative of any conclusion but I think telling in that the area you live in definitely colors your perspective on who's gonna win or at least who is popular with most... Since I started looking for them out of curiosity around Jacksonville I have not seen a single Biden sign.... I also saw some riot damage passing through Durham....right next to those BLM and Biden signs..... Telling as well I suppose....

[jc000]

I can say with certainty that if Trump loses, a significant factor "why" will be this:


…fairly hard to swallow orange pill…

…I'm not a fan of Trump's delivery…

…Trump's not my guy, and man do I wish he'd get rid of his twitter account…

…I do not like Trump as a person…

…I do not like DJT, I think he is an asshole, I have always thought he was an asshole, I do not like his ostentatious businesses or his blowhard personality or his contrived TV shows…

These quotes are all gathered from people who seem like they want DJT to win. So why are you doing the work of the opposition and throwing your disclaimers in there?

Honestly I have yet to have someone really explain to me what makes orange man so bad.

Does he make you sad? Does he say mean things?

Is that what it is?

I am happily voting for DJT a second time. I think he is a great person, I think he cares about all people, and I think he displays the perfect balance of hardline executive and constitutional restraint (yep letting states and other countries figure things on their own is what our founding fathers intended).

His nominations of Gorsuch and Barrett speak volumes to his level of fitness for the job.

I mean I sure as hell thought GWB was an asshole when I voted for him. Now I know he is. If we lose this election it’s because of the runaway globalist idiocy that’s occurred under his and Bill Clinton’s administrations. Funnily enough you can see where they both align today.

IMO, because we sat on our asses while the Bushes, Clintons, and Obama tore down our country, there is NOT enough of a silent majority to win.

If you care, stop using media talking points about him and his twitter, and ENGAGE THE PEOPLE IN YOUR PERSONAL NETWORK TO COMMIT TO HIS WIN.

Could the stakes not be any clearer today?

[JRB]

...
These quotes are all gathered from people who seem like they want DJT to win. So why are you doing the work of the opposition and throwing your disclaimers in there?
...


Because that's the only chance we have at saying our piece and being heard by the 'Never-Trumper' sorts of folks. The lockstep left will use their astonishingly flexible thinking to interpret any praise of Trump as negatively as possible. They want to 'get it twisted' so to speak.
They'll clamp down on some issue and once you beat them with rational discourse and available facts, they'll start their 'whataboutism' game and move goal posts to entirely unrelated things just to keep arguing. Then eventually one of you gives up and minds never change. Both sides are guilty of that poor debate strategy, to be sure, but I see it far more frequently from Dems/'Never-Trumpers'.

So by caveating our support for President Trump, and speaking on things we *don't* like about him, we can hopefully keep their attention long enough to hear why we *do* want him to win - and still avoid an argument (maybe).


I sincerely hope President Trump wins re-election, and I sincerely hope that his victory causes a lot of the teeth-gnashing left to stop and think about why.

Edit: Also, ultimately, some of us really just don't like everything about President Trump. Speaking personally as a Service Member, he's said some bone-headed and tone-deaf things about Service Members and Veterans, and military service in general. But despite what he's *said* he's done very good things for the US Military overall and backed us when and how it matters most, so it's easy for me to forgive a blunder in a speech.

But not all folks can rationalize what matters like that - especially younger folks that grew up for the past 12+ years being told their feelings are what matter most.

[blues]

I think he is a great person, I think he cares about all people...

I don't need any convincing not to support the Dems in this, (or any recent election for that matter)...but...

https://media.tenor.com/images/bae4bf5a6feb43ec27f33ee15227ed84/tenor.gif

...c'mon now.

[jc000]

Because that's the only chance we have at saying our piece and being heard by the 'Never-Trumper' sorts of folks.

I couldn't see myself spending any more time trying to convince a Never-Trumper than I would from a democratic socialist. What possible question could there be about the two directions we're likely headed?

If someone is still a Never-Trumper at this time, take their label for what it's worth.

We spend way too much time trying to apply logic to these discussions. What logical response would there be to defunding the police, inflicting our "values" on other cultures 1000s of miles away, defending riots as peaceful protest, and tearing down the middle class because it exists due to "privilege" and "systemic racism"?

Seriously…

[jc000]

I don't need any convincing not to support the Dems in this, (or any recent election for that matter)...but...

https://media.tenor.com/images/bae4bf5a6feb43ec27f33ee15227ed84/tenor.gif

...c'mon now.

I 100% believe it, primarily from first-hand accounts of his behavior (relayed to me) and quite frankly, the fact that has even wasted his time with running for office should give you a clue.

No one who thinks he's "feeding his ego" could ever understand the immeasurable pressure he faces every day having to sift through endless negative press. Not one person on this board could withstand it for a week. His actions in addressing inequity in our country and his offensive against our oligarchical bureaucracy proves to me where his heart is.

[JRB]

I couldn't see myself spending any more time trying to convince a Never-Trumper than I would from a democratic socialist. What possible question could there be about the two directions we're likely headed?

If someone is still a Never-Trumper at this time, take their label for what it's worth.

We spend way too much time trying to apply logic to these discussions. What logical response would there be to defunding the police, inflicting our "values" on other cultures 1000s of miles away, defending riots as peaceful protest, and tearing down the middle class because it exists due to "privilege" and "systemic racism"?

Seriously…

People in my immediate family are Never-Trumpers. People whom I love and want to stay connected to. I'm not willing to estrange myself from them even though that'd be much easier and less anguishing for me.

It's exhausting, but there's some headway to be made. Mostly by countering their impression of what something means with the reality of what it means. Our opposition have circulated versions of every label you can think of to appeal to any reasonable person, from what BLM means to what 'defund the Police' means to whose actually a fascist etc. There's value in countering that with our opposition's own material.


.... Not one person on this board could withstand it for a week....

If you genuinely believe that, you've wildly underestimated this place and the caliber of individual it (usually) attracts.

[blues]

People in my immediate family are Never-Trumpers. People whom I love and want to stay connected to. I'm not willing to estrange myself from them even though that'd be much easier and less anguishing for me.



I find myself in a similar situation. I just don't bother discussing it, especially long distance. Things are tenuous enough without pushing things past the tipping point.

[JRB]

I find myself in a similar situation. I just don't bother discussing it, especially long distance. Things are tenuous enough without pushing things past the tipping point.

I'm sorry to hear it my friend. Truly it's one of the least enviable situations to be in these days.

[jc000]

People in my immediate family are Never-Trumpers. People whom I love and want to stay connected to. I'm not willing to estrange myself from them even though that'd be much easier and less anguishing for me.

It's exhausting, but there's some headway to be made. Mostly by countering their impression of what something means with the reality of what it means. Our opposition have circulated versions of every label you can think of to appeal to any reasonable person, from what BLM means to what 'defund the Police' means to whose actually a fascist etc. There's value in countering that with our opposition's own material.

No one is suggesting you estrange yourself from anyone – I'm certainly not. But the vast chasm between what Trump is pursuing and what the left is pursuing speaks for itself. Who needs convincing today?

If they're not convinced, it's because they've accepted the media narrative. By your reinforcing that narrative, you weaken your argument.


If you genuinely believe that, you've wildly underestimated this place and the caliber of individual it (usually) attracts.

With all due respect I'm going to call BULLSHIT. There isn't even a politician alive (outside of sociopath Bill Clinton) who could handle that avalanche.

[blues]

I'm sorry to hear it my friend. Truly it's one of the least enviable situations to be in these days.

On the other hand, my wife is ready to take to the streets and seriously kick some ass. The left has really riled her up.

https://memes.getyarn.io/yarn-clip/aa0bf903-a6a3-47d2-a0a6-57aae440a530

[JRB]

No one is suggesting you estrange yourself from anyone – I'm certainly not. But the vast chasm between what Trump is pursuing and what the left is pursuing speaks for itself. Who needs convincing today?

If they're not convinced, it's because they've accepted the media narrative. By your reinforcing that narrative, you weaken your argument.



With all due respect I'm going to call BULLSHIT. There isn't even a politician alive (outside of sociopath Bill Clinton) who could handle that avalanche.

Friend, I'm afraid you've fallen victim to the same self-assured trap of dangerously ignorant overconfidence that we find so loathsome in the opposition.

Consider briefly that you really have no idea who is on this forum, what sorts of professions and experience they represent, or what respect may be due - and that such is no position from which to make these sorts of claims.

Also, if you think finding common ground with someone is a bad start for negotiations, I'm genuinely grateful I never had to work with you in a liaison role.

[theJanitor]

There have been weekly Trump rallies and convoys rolling around the city. In all my years, I have never seen this level of Pro-Republican/Anti-Democrat support here. Took a drive through the agricultural area a couple weeks ago, and there are Trump signs lining the farms' dirt roads. The Trump rally by my brothers house was a couple hundred people deep, and the BLM rally by mine had about 25.

We'll still be a Dem state, but it's refreshing to see the support

[jc000]

Friend, I'm afraid you've fallen victim to the same self-assured trap of dangerously ignorant overconfidence that we find so loathsome in the opposition.

Consider briefly that you really have no idea who is on this forum, what sorts of professions and experience they represent, or what respect may be due - and that such is no position from which to make these sorts of claims.

Also, if you think finding common ground with someone is a bad start for negotiations, I'm genuinely grateful I never had to work with you in a liaison role.

I have an idea who is on the forum, as I've interacted with a number of members in various personal and even professional circumstances over the past nine years. This has nothing to do with the quality of folks here or anywhere else.

Best of luck to you.

[RoyGBiv]

Honestly I have yet to have someone really explain to me what makes orange man so bad.



As an escapee from NYC, IMO, DJT epitomizes the self aggrandizing, in your face, douchebag personality that made me certain, as a teenager, that I would be leaving for greener pastures as soon as I was financially able.

That said, there is very little the man has done politically that is out of my liking. I so very much wish he would let others handle his tweets, but don't disagree for an instant with his confrontational behavior. I do believe that more could be accomplished, and more support could easily be garnered, using different words.

Honestly, I am very pleasantly surprised by the way he has executed as POTUS.
Middle East peace could actually happen in his second term.

[UNK]

I know for a fact in my state Dems control the citys and R’s control the country. In the country a bunch of lifelong Dems are voting Orange man. So he will carry my state no doubt but its not my State that gives me pause. During the last election I was 100% sure Trump was going to win. I THINK hes gonna win this time but I don’t have that same level of confidence. I hope Im wrong and they get back the S & take the H but again Im not 100% on that. If he does something has got to be done about voter registration and gun rights.

[Totem Polar]

Yesterday I drove from Jacksonville NC up to South Boston VA in order to set up a long range Helo Raid for 24th MEU Maritime Response Force. We took mostly back roads due to being speed limited in Gov't trucks... The only place I saw Biden lawn signs was in the City of Durham near Duke... The second you hit the city limits on either side it was back to solid Trump signs. Not a huge surprise and possibly not indicative of any conclusion but I think telling in that the area you live in definitely colors your perspective on who's gonna win or at least who is popular with most... Since I started looking for them out of curiosity around Jacksonville I have not seen a single Biden sign.... I also saw some riot damage passing through Durham....right next to those BLM and Biden signs..... Telling as well I suppose....

I’ve told this story here before: when tout le monde (save for the LA times) was sure that Hillary was a lock for ‘16, I was one of the only people in my entire sphere of life that wasn’t so sure, and it came from two sources. One was a trip to west Seattle a month before the election, where I noticed that every third Subaru and Prius had leftover Obama/Biden stickers, but I never saw so much as a single sticker for the then-current race, which was telling. Very, very telling. And quite the contrast to the entirety of I90 running across the state: that looked like a bobsled run sponsored by Trump, complete with entire barns painted to be a Trump campaign sign. Barns, plural.

But more importantly, the young turks (online/youtube political channel that skews to the left of Susan Sarandon, and who’s principles were responsible for the AOC candidacy) did a survey of their voters after the DNC cooked the books and fucked Bernie Sanders (and the grassrooters in their own party). When the poll closed, they had 34,000 respondents, 84 percent of which responded that they "would never vote for Hillary Clinton."

34K. Young, left-edge voters. None of whom are a fan of Biden and all he represents. PLUS they shoehorned a candidate that did poorly in the primary debates on as VP. Again with the book-cooking.

So, who knows.

[GOTURBACK]

My vote is for Trump, his dedication to putting conservative justices to the court is enough for me, that along with my memories of the Obama Biden charade.