Government length 9mm vs Commander length 9mm

[Sawyer]

Which would you choose and why? Particularly of the 9mm variety.

[willie]

I have owned and shot the various 1911's for over 50 years including those in 9mm. I say the choice should also include steel frame vs aluminum. For a carry pistol, the shorter aluminum Commander style ranks 1st. It is lighter and slightly more compact. If you choose a steel frame model, I recommend full size. The shorter version gives up 3/4 inch of sight radius and is not significantly lighter. If the pistol will remain at home, I suggest full size steel. Truth is you will like whatever you buy. I particularly like Ruger 1911 9mm lightweight Commander pistols. I have shot several. If you get one with problems, Ruger will fix it.

[BobRockefeller]

Which would you choose and why? Particularly of the 9mm variety.

What is its purpose?

[JAD]

Based on my safe, clearly both. If it was my first 1911, it would be a .45. If it was my first 9mm bore 1911, it would be a LWC in super. If it was my first 9x19 1911, it would be a LWC.

[Jim Watson]

For concealed carry, the Commander ("Lightweight Commander" in Internetspeak).
(Although I have chickened out and gone plastic for carry, my Commander is largely retired.)

For competition, home defense, or "range gun" a full size pistol. A searchlight rail is a plus on the house gun.
In 9mm a lightweight 5" is a handy, shootable gun that does not give up sight radius or balance. But the top USPSA competitors are going to ever heavier guns.

[farscott]

I am down to four 9x19 1911-pattern pistols. All are five-inch pistols. All are dedicated to gun games, hunting (9x19 for small game; swap in a 9x23 barrel and recoil spring assembly for deer), or range pistols. I do not believe that the 1911-pattern and self-defense/concealed carry is a viable combination based on my experience with dozens of pistols over twenty-five years. 9x19 OAL is too short for the 1911 magazine and magazines often go from reliable to duds with no warning.

I have two STI Trojan pistols that are used for informal USPSA and IDPA matches and a SVI single-stack that I use to shoot Bullseye. It replaced my Sams 9x19 because the SVI was more repeatable in my hands. I prefer the five-inch guns for sight radius and practical accuracy.

[FNFAN]

I do not believe that the 1911-pattern and self-defense/concealed carry is a viable combination based on my experience with dozens of pistols over twenty-five years.

Could you please expand on that line of thought?

[RevolverRob]

I believe farscott might be referring primarily to 1911s in 9mm as viable defensive weapons. I'm of a split mind, but with the Sig P210 'Standard' available at <$1200 street price, I see little reason to futz with a 9mm 1911 of any length any more.

If you want a double-stack gun, then I'd say wait a minute for the DWX/DWX Compact to actually get here and see how it goes. I suspect it will be more reliable than any STI.

If selecting based on the choice provided in the OP - 9mm Commander, Light Weight, fed from Tripp magazines.

[farscott]

Could you please expand on that line of thought?

In my experience, there are three major issues with 1911-pattern pistols and 9x19.

1) The round is too short (about 4 mm) for optimal feeding in the 1911. So we see spacers in magazines, the "Springfield ramp", and multiple iterations of magazines. We also see some guns that work with some magazines and not with others.

2) The taper of the 9x19 round makes it more likely for the top round in a loaded magazine to be tipped downward into the feed ramp, causing a failure to feed. Magazines also go from feeding with no issues to failing to feed the top round and failing to lock the slide back when empty with no warning.

3) 9x19 offers minimal recoil impulse to operate the 1911 action, causing people to use low spring rate recoil springs, causing slow and sluggish cycling and making the gun not run when dirty or when not optimally lubed.

[FNFAN]

In my experience, there are three major issues with 1911-pattern pistols and 9x19.

1) The round is too short (about 4 mm) for optimal feeding in the 1911. So we see spacers in magazines, the "Springfield ramp", and multiple iterations of magazines. We also see some guns that work with some magazines and not with others.

2) The taper of the 9x19 round makes it more likely for the top round in a loaded magazine to be tipped downward into the feed ramp, causing a failure to feed. Magazines also go from feeding with no issues to failing to feed the top round and failing to lock the slide back when empty with no warning.

3) 9x19 offers minimal recoil impulse to operate the 1911 action, causing people to use low spring rate recoil springs, causing slow and sluggish cycling and making the gun not run when dirty or when not optimally lubed.

Thanks for your reply! I stay with .45 ACP for traditional 1911's but the 9x23 and the .38 Super seem to run well and are in the range of about 4mm longer you mentioned. For 9mm 1911-esque guns I go to the EDC X9.

[farscott]

Thanks for your reply! I stay with .45 ACP for traditional 1911's but the 9x23 and the .38 Super seem to run well and are in the range of about 4mm longer you mentioned. For 9mm 1911-esque guns I go to the EDC X9.

I am much the same, preferring the EDC X9 in 1911-pattern pistols in 9x19. That being said, the 9x19 is so seductive. It just never delivers on its promises.

I think Colt was onto something with the original Commander slide with the lightening cuts. I find it telling that Colt's original design for the Commander was in 9x19 with the slide cuts on each side of the disconnect rail so that the extractor was visible. I assume Colt had a good reason for the extra machining operations needed to remove mass from the slide. It could have been just to make a weight target (the spec for the 1949 RFQ included a 25 ounce weight limit), but I believe it was to also increase slide speed. I remember Commanders and Combat Commanders chambered in .45 ACP with the lightening cuts.

[Joe in PNG]

It's one of the reason I picked up a Hipower.

[Robinson]

I've gone down the 9mm 1911 road a few times. Most of my guns were Commander-size Colts, and for the most part they ran okay. For a carry gun, the Commander length makes more sense for a 9mm gun IMO.

Now I stick with 45 and 38 Super. If I want to shoot 9mm it will be in a gun designed for the cartridge.

[FNFAN]

It's one of the reason I picked up a Hipower.

I love the Hipower. To get anywhere close to the right span between trigger & backstrap for my hand size I had to use a covered backstrap and none of the grips that do that felt good or look right. I gave my little Bro the T-Series family heirloom and my son my .40 Hi-Po. He's got similar hand size but it's not his primary gun so he's quite happy to bang away with it from time to time. Were my hands smaller I would have bought a pair of Novak's and called it good!

[Joe in PNG]

I love the Hipower. To get anywhere close to the right span between trigger & backstrap for my hand size I had to use a covered backstrap and none of the grips that do that felt good or look right. I gave my little Bro the T-Series family heirloom and my son my .40 Hi-Po. He's got similar hand size but it's not his primary gun so he's quite happy to bang away with it from time to time. Were my hands smaller I would have bought a pair of Novak's and called it good!

Mine fits me well enough. I still get a bit of a nip from the hammer, but it's not that bad.

[SW CQB 45]

I onced owned a DW Valkryrie 9mm Alloy Commander. A+ on carry all day, low recoil, superb accuracy/reliability, fast follow up shots.

D+ on the mags.

CMC 10s were great 9 round mags. 10 rounds was a bich to seat. I sent my mags back and they sent me new bodys.... still hard to seat. I cut some spring coils which seemed to improve.
WC were hard to load and strip the latter rounds
Tripps were the exact opposite. The top round was sliding out.
Metalform 9, the top round would slide out of the mag.

If the mag never left the gun.... A+.

if you did a tac reload, it would strip off the top round in the mag as friction caused it to move forward.
if you had to down load a mag by hand, the nose of the round would dip.

I fixed my problem by switching to 45acp.

Seriously, the gun ran fine.... I prefer dealing with .45 mags.

Nice gun but I sold it. The front strap checkering ate away the plastic mag base pads on the CMC mags, which caused an over insertion.
https://i.imgur.com/1HJjd8ah.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/zbbF3D8h.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/S6hUrPJh.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/8aMar9th.jpg

[Lon]

My last 1911 was an STI Spartan IV (Commander length) in 9mm. Ran like a scalded dog with any 9mm I fed it using Wilson 10rd mags. Shot the Single Stack Nationals w it in ‘15. Good times.

[Tokarev]

My last 1911 was an STI Spartan IV (Commander length) in 9mm. Ran like a scalded dog with any 9mm I fed it using Wilson 10rd mags. Shot the Single Stack Nationals w it in ‘15. Good times.I made A class Limited 10 shooting a 9mm 1911. Fun gun!

Sent from my SM-A505U using Tapatalk

[JAD]

Just for fun, I typed up my favorite to least favorite currently owned* 1911s. Looking at it, I think that the message to me is there's no reason to screw around with 9mm, and that the steel GM and LWC will always tie for my two favorite guns.

2012 Dan Wesson CCO .45: Gets carried a lot. Wearing it now under a polo in an SME in a moderately NPE. Absolute confidence in its reliability and my ability to place good hits quickly with it.
2005 Colt LWC .38: Moderately customized by Wilson. Delightful to shoot. Doesn't always lock back, I should replace the mag release, but other than that is 100%. Gets carried a lot particularly in winter.
1968 Colt LWC .45: Worked over as a 'retro' by MARS. A little painful to shoot and won't run FGM, runs everything else and is a cool gun. Gets carried a lot.
2016 Wilson Commander .45: Beautiful gun, shoots very well. The steel frame makes it hard to prefer versus the aluminum guns. Should sell.
2014 Springfield Range Officer 9x19: I've shot it a lot and it's pretty fun, but I'm not learning much by playing with it. It hasn't been out to play since 2015. Never carried.
2018 Dan Wesson Pointman Carry 9x19: Seems like a very nice gun. Only 100 rounds through it -- it was silly for me to buy another steel 9x19 and I should sell it.

* Technically owned but off the list for the moment is a 1982 Series 70, at MARS becoming an AXIOM (still). I sincerely hope and expect it to rise to the top and be the winter carry gun.

Previously owned 1911s include a 1998 Springfield MilSpec that I won at an IDPA match and traded for a J frame, which was stupid; a 98 LWC .45 which was customized at Robar and was the nicest gun I've ever owned, given as a groom's gift in 2006; and a 98 Kimber Custom Classic that was given to a friend in need a couple years ago after achieving a high five figure round count and convincing me that carrying a steel GM is a) not that hard and b) worth it.

[awp_101]

This is not inspiring confidence in my plan to grab a blem Dan Wesson Vigil when the funds get freed up...😳

[theJanitor]

I remember Commanders and Combat Commanders chambered in .45 ACP with the lightening cuts.

The old National Matches had them too


This is not inspiring confidence in my plan to grab a blem Dan Wesson Vigil when the funds get freed up...😳

You also said that you could go with 45ACP. If your wallet and elbows/hands can afford it, 45 in a 1911 is always the way to go

[gato naranja]

For concealed carry, the Commander ("Lightweight Commander" in Internetspeak).

For competition, home defense, or "range gun" a full size pistol. A searchlight rail is a plus on the house gun.

That would be my thoughts as well, based on the last 4 years of noodling with 9mm 1911s. Mrs. gn can't really take much recoil and I have to limit the punishment as I age, so in a 1911 it is 9mm or nothing for us. I consider a full-size, all steel 9mm 1911 "operator" to be the most "fun" range gun I have ever owned.

[awp_101]

You also said that you could go with 45ACP. If your wallet and elbows/hands can afford it, 45 in a 1911 is always the way to go
I did say that but I was really hoping to go .45 GM and 9mm Commander. It would be a fun gun rather than a defensive pistol so it's not totally off the table, just something else I need to keep in mind.

[Chuck Whitlock]

https://i.imgur.com/1HJjd8ah.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/zbbF3D8h.jpg

Next meeting that rolls around, you and I should find a corner and post up photos of our relative hand sizes.

[MK11]

Is converting a 9mm 1911 to .38 Super just a matter of a barrel change (like .40 to .357 Sig) or is it more complicated?

[farscott]

Is converting a 9mm 1911 to .38 Super just a matter of a barrel change (like .40 to .357 Sig) or is it more complicated?

Extractor may also need to be changed. 9x19 is rimless, but factory .38 Super is semi-rimmed (has a vestigial rim). There is also about a 10% difference in the length of the case that the extractor "grabs". If you reload, rimless .38 Super cases are available. Those usually allow the usage of the same extractor.

[MGW]

Just for fun, I typed up my favorite to least favorite currently owned* 1911s. Looking at it, I think that the message to me is there's no reason to screw around with 9mm, and that the steel GM and LWC will always tie for my two favorite guns.

2012 Dan Wesson CCO .45: Gets carried a lot. Wearing it now under a polo in an SME in a moderately NPE. Absolute confidence in its reliability and my ability to place good hits quickly with it.
2005 Colt LWC .38: Moderately customized by Wilson. Delightful to shoot. Doesn't always lock back, I should replace the mag release, but other than that is 100%. Gets carried a lot particularly in winter.
1968 Colt LWC .45: Worked over as a 'retro' by MARS. A little painful to shoot and won't run FGM, runs everything else and is a cool gun. Gets carried a lot.
2016 Wilson Commander .45: Beautiful gun, shoots very well. The steel frame makes it hard to prefer versus the aluminum guns. Should sell.
2014 Springfield Range Officer 9x19: I've shot it a lot and it's pretty fun, but I'm not learning much by playing with it. It hasn't been out to play since 2015. Never carried.
2018 Dan Wesson Pointman Carry 9x19: Seems like a very nice gun. Only 100 rounds through it -- it was silly for me to buy another steel 9x19 and I should sell it.

* Technically owned but off the list for the moment is a 1982 Series 70, at MARS becoming an AXIOM (still). I sincerely hope and expect it to rise to the top and be the winter carry gun.

Previously owned 1911s include a 1998 Springfield MilSpec that I won at an IDPA match and traded for a J frame, which was stupid; a 98 LWC .45 which was customized at Robar and was the nicest gun I've ever owned, given as a groom's gift in 2006; and a 98 Kimber Custom Classic that was given to a friend in need a couple years ago after achieving a high five figure round count and convincing me that carrying a steel GM is a) not that hard and b) worth it.

What’s that CCO like to shoot compared to a full size? My local FFL buddy has had a DW CCO on his shelf for a few years now. I keep talking myself out of it because it’s in 45 and not 9.

[JAD]

What’s that CCO like to shoot compared to a full size? My local FFL buddy has had a DW CCO on his shelf for a few years now. I keep talking myself out of it because it’s in 45 and not 9.

You've got it backwards, it's a much better gun in .45. It works, all the time. It is /vastly/ easier to shoot than a Glock 43; it is maybe 2% harder to shoot than a .45 LWC, which I presume you already own because you seem like a guy who knows what he's doing.

[FrankB]

You've got it backwards, it's a much better gun in .45. It works, all the time. It is /vastly/ easier to shoot than a Glock 43; it is maybe 2% harder to shoot than a .45 LWC, which I presume you already own because you seem like a guy who knows what he's doing.
I bought a Dan Wesson Vigil CCO in 9mm a month or so back, and it’s like shooting a pop gun. Accurate as anything else I own, and it’s been 100%. Having said that, I’ve been considering adding a PMC in .45 as well. I have too many 1911’s, but what the heck....

[JAD]

You've got it backwards, it's a much better gun in .45. It works, all the time. It is /vastly/ easier to shoot than a Glock 43; it is maybe 2% harder to shoot than a .45 LWC, which I presume you already own because you seem like a guy who knows what he's doing.

It appears to be what I'm shooting in my avatar.

[awp_101]

I have too many 1911’s
Can you expound on this? I’m not familiar with this concept...:confused:

[JodyH]

I have a Wilson commander 9mm.
I love shooting it.
I don't trust it for carry because at speed my high aggressive thumbs tend to ride the side of the slide causing very sluggish return and/or failures to return to battery.
If I gave it some more recoil spring it might return to battery better, but ejection is already fairly weak IMO even with +P and more recoil spring would make that worse.

9mm 1911 is a really fun range gun, but Glock 19 or 26 for carry.

[MDFA]

Here's my vote. A Combat Commander in 9mm is almost cheating...

58541

And the Merica Bourbon is to celebrate how well you shot afterwards... Or drown your sorrows because you sucked that day....