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View Full Version : How light is "too light" for a carry gun trigger?



MattInFla
03-17-2011, 06:28 AM
This is kind of a spin-off from the trigger discussion in the M&P thread.

What is the lower limit, if you will, of weight for a trigger on a carry gun, in your estimation?

I've taken to carrying my Glock 19 these days. I've been shooting a G34 in IDPA for a while now, and it just makes sense to me to have the same manual of arms for both my carry gun and the game gun.

Both of my pistols have aftermarket 3.5 pound connectors in them, using the stock springs. From what I've read (and I might be incorrect), the resulting pull is probably closer to 4.5 pounds than it is 3.5 pounds.

Personally, I feel the trigger on both of my Glocks is fine for carry, but I am reconsidering the issue in light (pardon the pun) of the discussion in the M&P thread.

Matt

JV_
03-17-2011, 06:29 AM
My lower limit is 5 - 5.5#.

VolGrad
03-17-2011, 06:41 AM
I think in the 1911 class last summer LAV said, "Real world triggers start at 4#."

Can't argue with that. :p

KeeFus
03-17-2011, 06:57 AM
Anything less than what it comes stock off the shelf with is too light, IMHO.

turbolag23
03-17-2011, 08:05 AM
I've got a similar setup to you, g23 and g35. I tried a scherer #3.5 in my g23 and didnt care for the sponge like reset so I went back to stock. I like the OEM "-" connector in my g35 though. I dont think that would be too light to carry.

ToddG
03-17-2011, 08:20 AM
I prefer a trigger right around the 5-6# mark, at least for the first shot. I've got less heartburn with the SA pull on a DA/SA gun being light because by the time I've got that to deal with, I've clearly already purposely fired one round.

Also, whenever possible, I prefer resistance during the take up rather than just stacking it all at the break. This does two things for me. First, it makes for more of a rolling trigger stroke than a "glass rod break," so less chance of anticipating the shot. Second, it provides instant tactile feedback from the moment I start moving the trigger... purposely or inadvertently. Heavier take up is usually achieved by way of a heavier trigger return spring which also tends to result in faster trigger reset, which is a nice bonus.

DocGKR
03-17-2011, 10:30 AM
Nothing less that approximately 5 lbs.

The G19's with OEM "-", M&P45's w/ Apex Duty Kit, and the 1911's I used to carry all have measured pulls above that limit.

Frank B
03-17-2011, 11:33 AM
I´ve carried a G23 for a couple of years with a 3.5 trigger without any problems or feeling unsafe. After an article re AIWB last year I start overthinking this. Since 6 months I run a 3.5/NY1 combination in all of my Glocks and never looking back.

A couple of weeks ago, I had a chance to fire one of my friends Glock with the 3.5 trigger. I was really shocked, how light this trigger was and that I carried this less saver setup for years.
My conclusion is, every trigger in a striker fire gun should be around 5-6.

fuse
03-18-2011, 08:15 AM
I'm carrying this stuff over from this thread http://pistol-forum.com/newreply.php?do=postreply&t=316


You should be making and re-making the threat judgment up until the moment you (a) move your vision to the front sight or (b) break the shot if you are target focused.

I have actually never thought of it like that. many thanks.


It's also worth noting that under the influence of adrenaline and facing life-or-death peril it's possible to pull a very light trigger without even realizing it.

indeed. I bet one could easily do this with a 12# Beretta DA trigger as well. hopefully the shooter is not prepping the trigger (or even has their finger anywhere near it) before it looks damn likely its shootin time. seems like a training issue, mostly.




Why would you think that? The standard trigger is going to require more than half again as much pressure to fire. Will it prevent every accident and mistake? No. But it will prevent more than the even-lighter trigger.

we are talking trigger weight, which to me is only one factor. like talking about how a car can accelerate but only talking about its engine displacement.

though my triggers are indeed lightened, the length of the pull is the same. it is still a Glock DAO pull, just lighter.


Around here there is a minimum measured 5 lbs trigger release weight required on any handgun, be it 1911, Glock, HK, M&P, Sig, etc...

this I think can illustrate my point.

a Glock has no manual safety. this does not bother people, as the pull (for this example) is about 5# and relatively long and double action-ish.

seems by the above logic, the 1911 would not need manual safety or grip safety, as long as it has a 5# or greater trigger. the thinking being the weight of the 5# pull will save you from any and all unpleasantness.

but if someone came here and said they carry their 1911 hot, with a 5# trigger, cocked, but unlocked (safety off) and with the grip safety disabled as well, and said they don't need those safeties because it has a 5# trigger pull, you all would ask them to seek professional help as soon as possible. and I would join you. because being a single action 1911, even though its a 5# pull, the length of pull is very very short as compared to a glock.

however my lightened carry glock still has the same long glock pull. yes it is lighter. I do not think its radically less safe.

I don't know if that little analogy holds any value at all, or if you're all stupider for reading it. my apologies if its the latter.




If the difference between a 5.5 and 3.5 trigger is the difference between a clean miss and an effective hit, you need to work on trigger control.

this of course is the crux of the issue for me.




Relying on a trigger setup that even the gun manufacturer says should only be used in competition guns is not the answer IMHO.

surely the manufacturer is playing the usual LOL-yer liability game.

I am glad you brought up the competition thing though. while I do conceal carry and enjoy doing so and having the right to do so, my life situation sadly prohibits me from doing so much of I time. though I live in Virginia, I work in DC (strike 1) and am in the military and thus work on a military base (strike 2)

my main goal with becoming a better pistol shooter rests mostly on the competition side of things. I'm comparatively in my infancy, but am trying to be more active in IDPA and USPSA, and every time I do a match its the best of times.

there are alot of crazy after-market glock triggers out there. crazy light and crazy short. I have avoided them as when I am actually able to conceal carry I want some commonality between my FS competition gun that I practice with most and my carry gun. the way I have them set up, they are very close, and I think its a good system for me.




please tell me if any of this sounds retarded. do not worry, I am not teaching anyone. I realize these are somewhat unconventional ideas, but they are my own, and are always changing.

YVK
03-18-2011, 10:09 AM
however my lightened carry glock still has the same long glock pull. yes it is lighter. I do not think its radically less safe

I may be in minority here, but I don't find Glock's trigger pull particularly long. The initial take-up, that comprises most of trigger travel, requires very little pressure and then from break point it is a very short distance. I personally feel that Glocks have a narrowest margin of safety among popular and widely accepted handguns. I carry mine with "-" OEM connector, trigger pull of 5.25 lbs, but the primary reason for connector is the feel, not weight.
Overall, I prefer 5-5.5 lbs on my trigger; with 1911 I am OK with 4.5 but not lower.

KentF
03-18-2011, 10:59 AM
My Browning Hi-Power has a 4.5# trigger.

My HK USP45C has the light LEM which is around 4.5 #. Anything less than that would be too light IMO.

My HK P30 is a V2 with a nominal 7.3# pull, but I haven't tested it. As soon as I get the springs, I plan on converting it to the "ToddG special". I was going to convert it to a V1, with a nominal 4.5# trigger, but I'm thinking I'd like something slightly heavier in a defensive handgun.

JV_
03-18-2011, 11:05 AM
My P30 V1 is 5.5 lbs.

With Todd's spring combination, it's 6.5 lbs.

JV_
03-18-2011, 11:20 AM
however my lightened carry glock still has the same long glock pull.Shoot a LEM P30 for a while, you'll never again think that Glock has a long pull.

KentF
03-18-2011, 11:20 AM
5.5 # would be nice. I may have to try both when I get the springs and see what I like the best. I'm not looking forward to replacing the TRS though.

JV_
03-18-2011, 11:23 AM
I'm not looking forward to replacing the TRS though.I didn't think the TRS was a big deal. I put tape around the front of the trigger guard and around the back of the trigger to keep it forward. I use a pair of needle nose pliers (wide jaw) and can change them out in about 90 seconds.

rsa-otc
03-18-2011, 11:58 AM
My P30 V1 is 5.5 lbs.

With Todd's spring combination, it's 6.5 lbs.

Coming from a revolver background I would love a smoooooth consistent 6.5 pound trigger, that didn't stack somewhere along the way.

With regards to what is the lightest acceptable trigger pull for a self defense weapon, 30 plus years of watching from the sidelines (fortunately none of my students or myself have been in the hot seat), I defer to a few folks I've come to respect over the years. They sit on several boards for different training associations, one is a Harvard/Yale trained lawyer and several do the expert witness thing for our side of the issue.

They are of the opinion your trigger weight should never be less than manufactures specs. The reason they give is that you will be hard pressed to convince a jury of non gun owners that you knew more/better than Gaston, S&W, Ruger and alike in a civil or criminal wrongful death/injury trial. That reasoning makes logical sense to me.

Someone posted earlier that weren't manufactures making triggers overly heavy for liability reasons. I personally think that to use that line of reasoning as your defense for "lightening the trigger pull of your weapon" wouldn't fly very far, or at all in a liability or a criminal trail.

My take on the matter is this, If and When I get in a self defense shooting I want the triers of the facts and the jury to concentrate on whether it was a good shoot. I do not what to give anyone possible side issues that they can introduce into the fray to cloud the matter in the eyes of the jury. By not giving them issues to work with you force them to concentrate on the actual facts as to whether it was a good shoot or not.

Our criminal & civil justice system is no doubt the BEST in the world, but is is operated by fallible human beings. Until it is run by an impartial computer that takes in only the facts and spits out a decision, you have Judges, Prosecutors and Jury members who bring their failings, political leanings and predigests to the table that have in the past and will in the future skew trial out comes.

So when people tell my that they want to lighten the trigger below factory specs I gently advise them that maybe more time spent mastering the trigger could save them a lot of grief later.

Savage Hands
03-18-2011, 01:29 PM
Coming from a revolver background I would love a smoooooth consistent 6.5 pound trigger, that didn't stack somewhere along the way.

With regards to what is the lightest acceptable trigger pull for a self defense weapon, 30 plus years of watching from the sidelines (fortunately none of my students or myself have been in the hot seat), I defer to a few folks I've come to respect over the years. They sit on several boards for different training associations, one is a Harvard/Yale trained lawyer and several do the expert witness thing for our side of the issue.

They are of the opinion your trigger weight should never be less than manufactures specs. The reason they give is that you will be hard pressed to convince a jury of non gun owners that you knew more/better than Gaston, S&W, Ruger and alike in a civil or criminal wrongful death/injury trial. That reasoning makes logical sense to me.

Someone posted earlier that weren't manufactures making triggers overly heavy for liability reasons. I personally think that to use that line of reasoning as your defense for "lightening the trigger pull of your weapon" wouldn't fly very far, or at all in a liability or a criminal trail.

My take on the matter is this, If and When I get in a self defense shooting I want the triers of the facts and the jury to concentrate on whether it was a good shoot. I do not what to give anyone possible side issues that they can introduce into the fray to cloud the matter in the eyes of the jury. By not giving them issues to work with you force them to concentrate on the actual facts as to whether it was a good shoot or not.

Our criminal & civil justice system is no doubt the BEST in the world, but is is operated by fallible human beings. Until it is run by an impartial computer that takes in only the facts and spits out a decision, you have Judges, Prosecutors and Jury members who bring their failings, political leanings and predigests to the table that have in the past and will in the future skew trial out comes.

So when people tell my that they want to lighten the trigger below factory specs I gently advise them that maybe more time spent mastering the trigger could save them a lot of grief later.



Is there any relevant case law that would pertain to your statements?

Mitchell, Esq.
03-18-2011, 01:33 PM
The issue of a "too light" - hair trigger - is one of negligence.

Simply put, self defense is an intentional act.

Deliverately shooting someone is a criminal act, but is excused because of cricumstances in a particular case which make it self defense. That is the heart of a justification defense - I did it, but had a good reason for doing it, and therefore I'm not a criminal even though I did what the law ordinarily forbids.

You cannot negligently injure someone and call it self defense. Negligence is by definition an act that a person excercising due care does not do.

As you are required to act with due care while defending yourself, injuring another person, even a bad one, by accident, is not self defense - and therefore a criminal act, and a civil tort.

A too light trigger in and of itself does not turn a good shoot into a bad one; however, it allows for:

#1 Mistakes on your part;
or
#2 The plausable allegation of a mistake on your part.

Either is bad.

"Good shoots gone bad" are the result of a combination of factors, real or implied.

A trigger lighter than what the industry standard accepts into can be make a very nice hook to hang a negligent discharge theory on...one that may be accepted by a finder of fact depending on the circumstances, and negates self defense.

A trigger which is smooth, short, positively resetting and consistant is not a problem.

But "light"? It can be a problem.

Mitchell, Esq.
03-18-2011, 01:47 PM
Is there any relevant case law that would pertain to your statements?

That's a misleading internet argument.

Their are 50 states each with their own bodies of caselaw, some in concurrance, others in contradiction.

Then the federal system, not all of it is in concurrance either.

Further, only about 1% of cases go to trial, and not all of those decissions make it into law journals which are easily serachable by index, only those which are appealed and a decission written on them are so indexed.

Thus, something may not be in caselaw or have caselaw on it, but that does not mean their is a void scholarship on the subject in the form or law review articles, industry guidelines or the common course of practice in a given activity which has authority.

Pennzoil
03-18-2011, 02:22 PM
Not sure if this trail will count as I think the big debate was cocking the hammer but it does mention cutting some coils.
Alvarez Trial (http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1356&dat=19840215&id=qAsTAAAAIBAJ&sjid=FwYEAAAAIBAJ&pg=7012,7998072)

To me it's a personal choice do as you like. I'm Not a Lawyer but to me I think it depends on how gun friendly your state is and how much you want to spend to defend yourself. I think it gives someone the chance to divert attention to your light trigger instead of the major facts. Fun exercise is to debate this with your wife or friends that are not gun savvy and see how it goes as more then likely most your jury is going to be people like this.

rsa-otc
03-18-2011, 02:28 PM
Is there any relevant case law that would pertain to your statements?

Case Law, I'll try to find the time to look it up the cases. The fact is as my company's instructor I've watched the legal liability issues with a vested interest for going on 30 years. I have watched and read about people going to jail or losing their homes because of ridiculous things that have gone wrong in a trial. Judges who wouldn't let evidence in for the wrong reasons, prosecutors who have misrepresented evidence.

Emanuel Kapelshon the Harvard/Yale trained lawyer who also is a Internationally recognized firearms expert/trainer, sits on the boards of a couple of training associations and does the expert witness thing calls it - BAD things happen to GOOD people.

You have to remember prosecutors don't get credit for letting people off, but convictions, Plaintiff attorney's only make the big money by winning cases with large payouts. Do you have to ask what their motivations are? What are they willing to do to win. Be FAIR to you the defendant?

I'm not trying to be antagonistic just want you to see where I'm coming from.

I don't want to become CASE LAW. As I said I want the jury to deal only with the real merits of the case, not side issues that the prosecution or plaintiffs add in to make the jury see me in a negative way and find against me. Prosecutors and Plaintiffs have used such things as the guns "OVERLY LARGE/POWERFUL" caliber, amount of extra ammo, and how light the trigger is to paint the defendant as a bad person.

rsa-otc
03-18-2011, 02:42 PM
Not sure if this trail will count as I think the big debate was cocking the hammer but it does mention cutting some coils.
Alvarez Trial (http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1356&dat=19840215&id=qAsTAAAAIBAJ&sjid=FwYEAAAAIBAJ&pg=7012,7998072)

To me it's a personal choice do as you like. I'm Not a Lawyer but to me I think it depends on how gun friendly your state is and how much you want to spend to defend yourself. I think it gives someone the chance to divert attention to your light trigger instead of the major facts. Fun exercise is to debate this with your wife or friends that are not gun savvy and see how it goes as more then likely most your jury is going to be people like this.

Yes the Alvarez case revolves around the "misrepresentation" that Alvarez cocked the weapon creating a "hair trigger" and the gun accidentally went off. Cases like this are what drove PD's to render the weapons DA only and look only at weapon that have a DA like trigger when moving to Autos. From my understanding the LA PD rendered their revolvers DA Only back in the late 60 early 70's in response to this trend.

It has been suggested that you try the "Auntie" test. Give your weapon to your Grand Ma, Mother in Law, Auntie or some other non gun person. Let them try your trigger. If you get a negative reaction from them (Ohh that trigger is really light) you will get a feel of how the jury is going to see it.

Really is there in real life a unsurmountable difference between 3.5 and 5.5/6.5 pounds of trigger pressure. We're not talking about shooting dime size groups at 50 feet.

Is it really worth the chance?

ToddG
03-18-2011, 04:18 PM
a Glock has no manual safety. this does not bother people, as the pull (for this example) is about 5# and relatively long and double action-ish.

I haven't read through the rest of the thread yet, but wanted to address this on two levels.

First, you're absolutely right. Up until they switched to the Glock, FBI's firearms instructor school used to include a study in which it was determined that trigger pull length played a bigger role in preventing ADs than trigger pull weight. As you rightly pointed out, someone can push through a heavy but short trigger pull very fast under stress, and the difference of a few pounds trigger pull in that instance probably won't matter.

Second, you're absolutely wrong. The Glock trigger is actually fairly short in its movement compared to typical DAO guns. As such, it's already running at a disadvantage (see point #1 above). Now you combine that with a trigger pull that is very light and you're reducing your margins to the point where many people with experience pointing guns at other people would tell you it's gone too far.

FWIW, I shot Tom Jones's BE-1000 (http://pistol-training.com/drills/bullseye-1000) drill -- which I'd put up against even the Humbler (http://pistol-training.com/drills/the-humbler) in terms of difficulty, with substantially smaller scoring zones on the slow fire portions -- today using a brand new Glock 17 with stock (unpolished, untreated) parts, a - connector, and a NY trigger spring. Trigger pull was probably around 7#. I scored 835 - 9X, which Tom tells me is respectable.

Could I have shot a little better with a lighter trigger? Maybe, maybe not. But I do know this: if I'd spent all my time practicing with a 3.5# trigger and then tried to shoot the drill with the 7# trigger, I'd have made an ass of myself.

For the little extra effort it takes to run a heavier trigger, you get the benefit of greater safety as well as being forced to learn your marksmanship fundamentals that much better.

gringop
03-18-2011, 10:06 PM
Could I have shot a little better with a lighter trigger? Maybe, maybe not. But I do know this: if I'd spent all my time practicing with a 3.5# trigger and then tried to shoot the drill with the 7# trigger, I'd have made an ass of myself.

For the little extra effort it takes to run a heavier trigger, you get the benefit of greater safety as well as being forced to learn your marksmanship fundamentals that much better.

My comment on this,

I started my serious pistol training with a 1911 running a 3.5 lbs trigger. I had plenty of experience (but no training) running other pistols, a GP100, an HK USD compact 40, a Sig 228 but with the 1911 I could finally HIT the target and shoot well.

Then I started attending training classes. After seeing even more improvement with the light trigger 1911, I bought a used G19 and decided I was good enough to learn to shoot a crappy triggered gun. Also at the time we had Pin matches that had rules that favored revolver shooters. I bought a S+W 45 LC revolver and started doing well at Pin matches. Fast forward to the present and I'm shooting an IDPA match tomorrow with my J-frame.

The point of all this history is that I believe that newer inexperienced shooters discover the joys of a good, light trigger and believe that it is the key to shooting well, whether it is practice, competition, or self-defense. I know that I did at that level.

I have students that struggle with crappy triggers (Bursa and Taurus double actions) and I want to show them the possibilities of what can be achieved with a good trigger. Yet how do I keep them from being seduced by the rosy glow of the 3.5lbs SA trigger.

How do you look a student in the eye and say "for litigation reasons you need to learn to shoot a moderately crappy trigger"?

Gringop

jslaker
03-19-2011, 03:45 PM
How do you look a student in the eye and say "for litigation reasons you need to learn to shoot a moderately crappy trigger"?

I'm far more concerned about accidentally shooting myself or others than I am about the legal ramifications of a light trigger.

David Armstrong
03-22-2011, 03:13 PM
How do you look a student in the eye and say "for litigation reasons you need to learn to shoot a moderately crappy trigger"?
Gringop
You don't. You look them in the eye and say "literally thousands, probably hundreds of thousands, of people do not find that trigger to be crappy or an impediment to good shooting. Learning to shoot includes learning to shoot with a trigger that is considered normal by most. If you have to have a special trigger on your gun to shoot it properly when so many others don't you probably need to find a different gun."

rsa-otc
03-22-2011, 03:33 PM
You don't. You look them in the eye and say "literally thousands, probably hundreds of thousands, of people do not find that trigger to be crappy or an impediment to good shooting. Learning to shoot includes learning to shoot with a trigger that is considered normal by most. If you have to have a special trigger on your gun to shoot it properly when so many others don't you probably need to find a different gun."

Excellent response. I was going to go with Mission drives equipment. If your mission is shooting dime size groups on paper at 50 feet then 3.5 lbs crisp is good. If your mission is self defense then manufactures specs rule the day.

Don't give me that better to be tried by 12 then carried by 6 crap. First if I didn't mean to shoot the person but did because of my overly light trigger I don't know if I could live with myself. Secondly you have to not only survive the shooting but also the legal aftermath as well. Also I don't want bubba as my boyfriend (go to jail), nor do I want to pay some dirt bag or his family my life's savings and/or a payroll deduction the rest of my life either. Just because I couldn't be bothered to learn how to operate a 5.5 lb trigger.

KentF
03-22-2011, 04:12 PM
I had planned on changing the springs of my V2 P30 to give me a V1 trigger. This would more closely match that on my USP45c. Now I think I change the springs on the USP and get a heavier trigger on that...

rsa-otc
03-22-2011, 05:51 PM
I had planned on changing the springs of my V2 P30 to give me a V1 trigger. This would more closely match that on my USP45c. Now I think I change the springs on the USP and get a heavier trigger on that...

Dude - If you like the V1 option which correct me if I'm wrong is the light LEM. Why not try the Todd Special. As I understand it, it is heavier then the factory spec and yet has some other pluses.

I've shot double action only revolvers for years and have never had an issue with being either accurate or fast.

KentF
03-22-2011, 05:59 PM
I'm actually considering the "ToddG Special". I'm just not in quite a big of a hurry to change things after reading this as I was before.

rsa-otc
03-22-2011, 06:00 PM
For those of you who wanted some cases where light triggers worked to the detriment of the officer or CCW, this pod-cast has them.

Now I know some are going to come back and say hey these cases involve revolvers and I carry an semi auto. For those I ask isn't the single action of a revolver substantially the same as a 3.5 crisp single action auto. If you are truthful with yourselves then you will see that what happened in these cases can just as easily happen with an auto as well.

http://proarmspodcast.com/2009/04/12/022-light-triggers/

rsa-otc
03-22-2011, 06:15 PM
I'm actually considering the "ToddG Special". I'm just not in quite a big of a hurry to change things after reading this as I was before.

As Todd notes in his post that the length of the pull does more to prevent negligent discharges than the weight. Now I've never had the privilege of trying his variation, but being an OLD revolver hand I could see the benefit of a longer pull at 6.5 pounds. The fact that it is a little heavier than factory is a help as well. :cool:

I've rethought my position on my M&P 45 as well. While I wouldn't have installed the APEX goodies I'm now thinking that even stock may be to short for CCW. If I had the same resistance all the way through the pull it may be better. Something like Glock's NY 1 or 2 spring that gives it a revolver like pull.

At work all we have is DA only revolvers (why revolver is for another thread), even our trainers are DA only. So from the git go the students learn to deal with the longer trigger pull. We have had such good results the local PD's won't shoot against us any more. I have had only 1 person in the last 20 year I wasn't able to get to qualify. He's a retired NY corrections officer. He gets someone to qualify him on the NJ state course for his retired LEO permit but he can't make my companies standards.

Jac
03-23-2011, 04:32 PM
How do you look a student in the eye and say "for litigation reasons you need to learn to shoot a moderately crappy trigger"?

Gringop
Is 'heavy(ish)' necessarily synonymous with 'crappy', though? I'd think that whether a trigger is heavy or light to be a separate issue from whether it's good or bad... You can lighten springs all you want, but if the trigger pull isn't smooth and consistent, with a clean break, it's still bad.

Chuck Haggard
03-27-2011, 08:05 AM
Is 'heavy(ish)' necessarily synonymous with 'crappy', though? I'd think that whether a trigger is heavy or light to be a separate issue from whether it's good or bad... You can lighten springs all you want, but if the trigger pull isn't smooth and consistent, with a clean break, it's still bad.

I agree.


I don't know where I first heard it, but I have been told several times by very good shooters that "A really light trigger is a crutch for people who can't shoot".

Since, for me, the handgun is a threat management tool first and foremost, and a range toy rather secondary, I like a trigger that I can defend in court if need be. I also like a trigger that doesn't make me worry when I am cold, wet, wearing gloves, etc.
I don't mean to sound dramatic, but in 24 years on the road, mostly night shift, 18 of which have been as a part time SWAT dude, I have made quite literally a couple thousand or so felony arrests. Since we are all children of our experience, mine says on a daily basis that when I go to work I might have to shoot somebody that very day, then end up in court off-and-on for the next 3-5 years.
I like to have my ducks in a row.



Thursday night I was at a local IDPA match. Afterwards some of us were talking about guns. Several of the guys are running Glocks, but have parts and mods to lighten the trigger, take out pre-travel, over travel, etc. They seem to be looking for a bullseye 1911 set-up "glass rod" trigger break.

I know people game stuff, but I was once again stunned that folks would go that far out from reality to try and make a few more points at a match. I have been shooting my duty G17 and off-duty G19, both with all stock parts, standard connector and NY1 spring, from either my duty holster or my actual IWB holster under a T-shirt as I carry in the real world, and I haven't been doing too bad at all for a new guy.

I think shooting a G34 "rooney gun" during practice and matches, then carrying a pocket DAO .380 for actual street carry, leaves one set up for bad things to happen. Same-same if they actually get into a shooting with the 2 1/2lb trigger Glock.

MTechnik
03-27-2011, 09:14 AM
After reading this thread a few times, I'm reluctant to do anything to my glock trigger besides shoot the bejeezus outta it.

What I would like is to shoot a glock with a similar 4.5-5.5lb trigger with a better feel to it to see and learn what the difference is. Anyone have one in SE PA?

BigT
03-27-2011, 12:37 PM
After trying various setups on my GLOCK's if gone back to the standard connector and spring set up. Gives me a good enough break with a better reset than the 2kg connector and a standard spring.