mrozowjj
07-25-2020, 04:55 PM
One of my biggest pet peeves is when optics makers show you this zoomed in view of their reticles and you get the idea that this thing looks giant and easy to use and then you get the thing in person and go "Well I can't see that chevron tip at all." (Primary Arms ACSS reticle at 1-3x is this way for me) What would help this is if they put their reticle against a known target size at a known distance and showed me that. Since very few optics makers seem to do this I thought "Well ok I guess I'll do it then."
I was inspired by this page that C-More has on their website:
https://cmore.com/DotSize
Which is absolutely excellent resource that I link to anytime someone says they need a 2 MOA dot to be precise on a pistol; look if you prefer the 2 MOA dot by all means go buck wild but if you can't be precise with a 6 MOA dot inside of 25 yards it's you not the dot.
Anyway here's a bunch of pictures of reticles at different distances for you to reference if you are curious. I intend to do this with more of my optics over the next few months. I don't know if I should put this post here or in the rifles section or somewhere else because I intend to do this with my magnified optics as well at some point. If you'd like to do it with your optics as well please do.
Notes:
My range has separate rifle and pistol ranges with the pistol range being able to stand anywhere inside of 25 yards; I did not go to the pistol range that day but I would like to take pictures of the reticles against the target at pistol distances as well at some point (Maybe 5, 10, 15, and 20 yards? I don't know yet)
rifle range has fixed target berms at 25, 100 and 200 yards so that's where I put my targets
My rifle range has fixed target berms at 25, 100 and 200 yards so that's where I put my targets; sorry I can't do 50 yards.
Target is a paper USPSA Target
I used my camera at 2x zoom for all pictures
This is intended to show you how large the reticle looks relative to a target you are familiar with, not be a 100% accurate representation of what the sight picture looks like if you were behind the gun; hence why I was ok with 2x zoom on camera
Pictures were taken with a Pixel 3A phone so obviously it's not great but it gives you the idea, if you want to pony up the dough to buy me a camera or loan me a better camera I'd be happy to take them all again
It's hard to get the white balance perfect relative to the dot brightness so that the dot looks crisp in the pictures so forgive me is some of these are a bit bloomy or too dim it was really hard to tell on the range while looking at my phone.
The optics used were
Holosun 407CO with the 8 MOA ring reticle
Holosun 507c pictures taken with 2 MOA Dot only, 32 MOA ring only and 2 MOA dot + 32 MOA ring at all distances
Holosun 503CU with is a 2 MOA dot + 65 MOA ring; this model does not let you do ring only so no pictures of just the 65 MOA dot and the 2 MOA dot only seemed redundant with the 507c so I didn't see the point.
I'm not intending to show bias towards Holosun it's just what I brought with me.
The target used across all pictures:
57882
2 MOA Dot Only:
57894
57895
57896
2 MOA Dot w 32 MOA Ring:
57891
57892
57893
32 MOA Ring Only:
57883
57880
57881
2 MOA Dot w 65 MOA Ring:
57888
57889
57890
8 MOA Ring:
57884
57885
57886
57887
Observations
The 65 MOA ring is almost the same size as the width of the USPSA target
At 100 yards the 65 MOA is about twice the size of the height of the target which makes sense because 65 MOA is just shy of the 68 MOA EoTech uses which is designed to be the height of the average man.
At 25 yards the 32 MOA ring is almost the same size as the C zone of the USPSA target. GJM is an advocate for using just the ring and this picture kind of "prooves" that out because inside of 25 yards the 32 MOA ring is small enough you should have zero issues making accurate hits.
At 100 yards the 32 MOA ring is about the same size as the target is long suggesting you should still be able to get decent enough hits even out to 100 yards if you just center your target in the ring and line it up with the top & bottom of the ring.
At 25 yards the 8 MOA ring is a bit larger than the A-zone of the headbox of a USPSA target but because it's a ring it's totally doable
The 8 MOA ring is almost the exact same size as the target is wide at 200 yards which is why I took a picture with it on target then then just to the right of target. I think you could make your shots with this at 200 yards even if it wouldn't be quite as easy as it would be with the 2 MOA dot so my previous assertion that the 8 MOA ring is great for PCCs holds true and I'd go so far as to say the 8 MOA ring is still pretty good for a rifle as long as you are only making occasional 200 yards shots on larger targets; if you are going to shoot rabbits at 200 yards this 8 MOA ring might not be for you.
Questions for you:
Was this useful/helpful/informative? Or was it a waste of time?
Do you want me to do this with more reticles and these reticles at pistol distances?
I was inspired by this page that C-More has on their website:
https://cmore.com/DotSize
Which is absolutely excellent resource that I link to anytime someone says they need a 2 MOA dot to be precise on a pistol; look if you prefer the 2 MOA dot by all means go buck wild but if you can't be precise with a 6 MOA dot inside of 25 yards it's you not the dot.
Anyway here's a bunch of pictures of reticles at different distances for you to reference if you are curious. I intend to do this with more of my optics over the next few months. I don't know if I should put this post here or in the rifles section or somewhere else because I intend to do this with my magnified optics as well at some point. If you'd like to do it with your optics as well please do.
Notes:
My range has separate rifle and pistol ranges with the pistol range being able to stand anywhere inside of 25 yards; I did not go to the pistol range that day but I would like to take pictures of the reticles against the target at pistol distances as well at some point (Maybe 5, 10, 15, and 20 yards? I don't know yet)
rifle range has fixed target berms at 25, 100 and 200 yards so that's where I put my targets
My rifle range has fixed target berms at 25, 100 and 200 yards so that's where I put my targets; sorry I can't do 50 yards.
Target is a paper USPSA Target
I used my camera at 2x zoom for all pictures
This is intended to show you how large the reticle looks relative to a target you are familiar with, not be a 100% accurate representation of what the sight picture looks like if you were behind the gun; hence why I was ok with 2x zoom on camera
Pictures were taken with a Pixel 3A phone so obviously it's not great but it gives you the idea, if you want to pony up the dough to buy me a camera or loan me a better camera I'd be happy to take them all again
It's hard to get the white balance perfect relative to the dot brightness so that the dot looks crisp in the pictures so forgive me is some of these are a bit bloomy or too dim it was really hard to tell on the range while looking at my phone.
The optics used were
Holosun 407CO with the 8 MOA ring reticle
Holosun 507c pictures taken with 2 MOA Dot only, 32 MOA ring only and 2 MOA dot + 32 MOA ring at all distances
Holosun 503CU with is a 2 MOA dot + 65 MOA ring; this model does not let you do ring only so no pictures of just the 65 MOA dot and the 2 MOA dot only seemed redundant with the 507c so I didn't see the point.
I'm not intending to show bias towards Holosun it's just what I brought with me.
The target used across all pictures:
57882
2 MOA Dot Only:
57894
57895
57896
2 MOA Dot w 32 MOA Ring:
57891
57892
57893
32 MOA Ring Only:
57883
57880
57881
2 MOA Dot w 65 MOA Ring:
57888
57889
57890
8 MOA Ring:
57884
57885
57886
57887
Observations
The 65 MOA ring is almost the same size as the width of the USPSA target
At 100 yards the 65 MOA is about twice the size of the height of the target which makes sense because 65 MOA is just shy of the 68 MOA EoTech uses which is designed to be the height of the average man.
At 25 yards the 32 MOA ring is almost the same size as the C zone of the USPSA target. GJM is an advocate for using just the ring and this picture kind of "prooves" that out because inside of 25 yards the 32 MOA ring is small enough you should have zero issues making accurate hits.
At 100 yards the 32 MOA ring is about the same size as the target is long suggesting you should still be able to get decent enough hits even out to 100 yards if you just center your target in the ring and line it up with the top & bottom of the ring.
At 25 yards the 8 MOA ring is a bit larger than the A-zone of the headbox of a USPSA target but because it's a ring it's totally doable
The 8 MOA ring is almost the exact same size as the target is wide at 200 yards which is why I took a picture with it on target then then just to the right of target. I think you could make your shots with this at 200 yards even if it wouldn't be quite as easy as it would be with the 2 MOA dot so my previous assertion that the 8 MOA ring is great for PCCs holds true and I'd go so far as to say the 8 MOA ring is still pretty good for a rifle as long as you are only making occasional 200 yards shots on larger targets; if you are going to shoot rabbits at 200 yards this 8 MOA ring might not be for you.
Questions for you:
Was this useful/helpful/informative? Or was it a waste of time?
Do you want me to do this with more reticles and these reticles at pistol distances?