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View Full Version : Lessons from the Martin/Zimmerman Shooting



Joe in PNG
06-05-2012, 06:01 AM
One thing that appears to be happening in the aftermath of the Treyvon Martin/George Zimmerman shooting is that many who carry a concealed firearm are taking a good look at concepts they otherwise have taken for granted. And after a good 80 or so pages on this very forum discussing the legality and events of the case, I think we can start discussing a few lessons that we may have learned from this case:

A few for me:
1) Get some hand to hand training: Had GZ a bit of this, he may have a few more options other than "get beaten" or "draw gun".

2) Leave policing to the police: After all, that's why the get paid the big bucks (heh). I think a good many of us are agreed that GZ should have waited in his truck for the cops to arrive

3) If the worst happens, get a lawyer: GZ has said and done a few really stupid things since the event, and it is likely that a few of the stupid things he said will be used against him in court.

That's just my thoughts on the lessons presented so far...

JV_
06-05-2012, 06:06 AM
3) If the worst happens, get a lawyer: GZ has said and done a few really stupid things since the event, and it is likely that a few of the stupid things he said will be used against him in court.

I think this should be expanded from "get a lawyer" to "get a good lawyer, and listen to him/her".

phil_in_cs
06-05-2012, 07:08 AM
Be able to articulate what is happening. If the cell phone and witnesses had a clear "Sir, would you stop coming closer?" "Sir, Stop" "BACK UP" "BACK THE FUCK UP" it would be very obvious who the aggressor was.

When the EMTs tell you to go to the hospital, go to the fucking hospital.

If you have $300k in a defense fund, and the judge asks how much money you have, include the $300k.

Noleshooter
06-05-2012, 07:42 AM
I would also add that you need to make sure your HtH training involves at least a basic level of grappling and BJJ (or equivalent). I've seen top level thai fighters lock up and freak out when mounted. Getting punched from the mount is a bastard when you know it's coming and you know what to do, I would imagine it's terrifying if you've never experienced it and don't even know basic escape techniques.

Mitchell, Esq.
06-05-2012, 09:38 AM
When the EMTs tell you to go to the hospital, go to the fucking hospital.

If you have $300k in a defense fund, and the judge asks how much money you have, include the $300k.

WINNER!

Also, observe what I have taken to calling the "Sterile 911 call rule" - When 911 is called, all talking not immediately applicable to the 911 call and who/what/where/when/why is forbidden.

Don't have anything in the 911 tape that people will wonder what was said. "It's f-ing cold..." becomes "It's f-ing coons..."

Language should be plain, words need to be crisp and the only thing coming from you should be information if at all possible.

ford.304
06-05-2012, 10:21 AM
I think it also strongly points to something else Mitchell is always saying - you can't assume a shoot is going to be as clean as a felon busting through your window at 2 a.m. One man's goblin is another's innocent child.

David Armstrong
06-05-2012, 10:51 AM
3) If the worst happens, get a lawyer:
I'd expand that to get a lawyer before you need one, and talk with them. Ask your attorney all those questions you ask on the internet, discuss all those scenarios and "well, what if" things that many like to talk about. Get some legal guidance about the state statutes, case law, and legal environment in your area.

JHC
06-05-2012, 11:15 AM
Don't have anything in the 911 tape that people will wonder what was said. "It's f-ing cold..." becomes "It's f-ing coons..."

Language should be plain, words need to be crisp and the only thing coming from you should be information if at all possible.

Mitchell,
What is your take on staying on the line and multi-tasking between updating 911 operators and taking their direction while solving your immediate problem vs place the call, give them the facts "Joe Friday" style and hanging up?

Mitchell, Esq.
06-05-2012, 11:30 AM
Mitchell,
What is your take on staying on the line and multi-tasking between updating 911 operators and taking their direction while solving your immediate problem vs place the call, give them the facts "Joe Friday" style and hanging up?

If you are on the phone with 911, you aren't solving the problem.

Attention drift/Task fixation will kill you just as dead as Todd G. with a 9mm 1911 (9mm 1911...really Todd? Really!) so I'd ideally either be doing one or the other, not both.

Alternatively, if you call 911 and leave the line open, just be aware all of your words will be recorded, so let 911 be your "witness" and make sure you tell the world how reasoanble/defensive you are in your situation..."STAY BACK" "STOP" "GUN!!" "DROP IT!!".

JHC
06-05-2012, 02:44 PM
If you are on the phone with 911, you aren't solving the problem.

Attention drift/Task fixation will kill you just as dead as Todd G. with a 9mm 1911 (9mm 1911...really Todd? Really!) so I'd ideally either be doing one or the other, not both.

Alternatively, if you call 911 and leave the line open, just be aware all of your words will be recorded, so let 911 be your "witness" and make sure you tell the world how reasoanble/defensive you are in your situation..."STAY BACK" "STOP" "GUN!!" "DROP IT!!".

Excellent. Thanks much.

vcdgrips
06-05-2012, 05:58 PM
Just because you carry a hammer does not mean that anything you come across sticking up needs to be pounded down by you.