HK under new ownership

[GJM]

https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2020/07/22/new-owners-for-heckler-koch/

Hopefully they use the word “liberal” in a way different than me.

“We want people to be able to live safely. Our products are designed to protect people in liberal, democratic countries from threats and violence. Heckler & Koch is the leading manufacturer of handguns for the NATO and EU countries and is proud that its assault rifles are standard equipment for many European armed and security forces.”

[Totem Polar]

Same dude still in charge, since 2018. They still hate you, but I’d expect good products when you get one. :)

[Baldanders]

https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2020/07/22/new-owners-for-heckler-koch/

Hopefully they use the word “liberal” in a way different than me.

“We want people to be able to live safely. Our products are designed to protect people in liberal, democratic countries from threats and violence. Heckler & Koch is the leading manufacturer of handguns for the NATO and EU countries and is proud that its assault rifles are standard equipment for many European armed and security forces.”

/pedant mode on

In much of the world "liberal" just means "free market friendly."

/pedant mode off

[Guerrero]

I still expect no compromise from them

http://pics.sneezyfrog.com/5GAZFLqSnj.jpg

[Darth_Uno]

And it still fired. Because it's an HK.

[P30]

Hopefully they use the word “liberal” in a way different than me.

“We want people to be able to live safely. Our products are designed to protect people in liberal, democratic countries from threats and violence. Heckler & Koch is the leading manufacturer of handguns for the NATO and EU countries and is proud that its assault rifles are standard equipment for many European armed and security forces.”

The quote is a machine translation from German. This is the original text:

heckler-koch.com/de/presse/detail/article/luxemburger-finanzholding-cde-uebernimmt-mehrheit-an-traditionsreicher-waffenschmiede-heckler-koch.html (https://www.heckler-koch.com/de/presse/detail/article/luxemburger-finanzholding-cde-uebernimmt-mehrheit-an-traditionsreicher-waffenschmiede-heckler-koch.html):

Wir wollen, dass Menschen sicher leben können. Unsere Produkte sollen Menschen in freiheitlich-demokratischen Ländern vor Bedrohung und Gewalt schützen. Heckler & Koch ist der führende Hersteller von Handfeuerwaffen für die Staaten der Nato und der EU und stolz darauf, dass seine Sturmgewehre zur Standard-Ausrüstung vieler europäischer Streit- und Sicherheitskräfte gehören.
So "liberal, democratic" is the machine translation of "freiheitlich-demokratisch". The German adjective "freiheitlich" means "pertaining to freedom", "in a free way" (en.wiktionary.org/wiki/freiheitlich (https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/freiheitlich)). "Freiheitlich-demokratisch" has a meaning in connection with the German constitution:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberal_democratic_basic_order (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberal_democratic_basic_order):

According to the German constitutional court, the free democratic order is defined thus:


The free democratic basic order can be defined as an order which excludes any form of tyranny or arbitrariness and represents a governmental system under a rule of law, based upon self-determination of the people as expressed by the will of the existing majority and upon freedom and equality. The fundamental principles of this order include at least: respect for the human rights given concrete form in the Basic Law, in particular for the right of a person to life and free development; popular sovereignty; separation of powers; responsibility of government; lawfulness of administration; independence of the judiciary; the multi-party principle; and equality of opportunities for all political parties.

I'm not sure, what "liberal" means in English, I'm German. I suppose, originally it also means "pertaining to freedom" but nowadays it is sometimes used with a perverted meaning. Is that true?

[TicTacticalTimmy]

Thank you for that P30.

In the USA, "Liberal" actually means "on the left (socialist/egalitarian/"anti-rascist") side of the political spectrum. In the US the Left is a whole lot better at political manuverimg than the Right, and managed to co-opt the word "liberal" to describe themselves.

Amongst Political Science programs in US universities, the term "liberal" still means "valuing freedom" and is often an antonym of egalitarian.

Ironically, "liberal" in the US means "NOT classically liberal" or "valuing equity over liberty". Very confusing.

[Borderland]

The quote is a machine translation from German. This is the original text:

heckler-koch.com/de/presse/detail/article/luxemburger-finanzholding-cde-uebernimmt-mehrheit-an-traditionsreicher-waffenschmiede-heckler-koch.html (https://www.heckler-koch.com/de/presse/detail/article/luxemburger-finanzholding-cde-uebernimmt-mehrheit-an-traditionsreicher-waffenschmiede-heckler-koch.html):

So "liberal, democratic" is the machine translation of "freiheitlich-demokratisch". The German adjective "freiheitlich" means "pertaining to freedom", "in a free way" (en.wiktionary.org/wiki/freiheitlich (https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/freiheitlich)).

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberal_democratic_basic_order (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberal_democratic_basic_order):


I'm not sure, what "liberal" means in English, I'm German. I suppose, originally it also means "pertaining to freedom" but nowadays it is sometimes used with a perverted meaning. Is that true?

In the US the term "liberal" is also misused. It has come to mean the progressive left or the Democratic party (the party of more gun control). The term "conservative" has been used to describe the Grand Old Party or Republican party and until recently supported the second amendment and the right to keep and bear arms.

I don't think HK markets to the US consumer that much. I think their primary marketing here is to law enforcement and the military, not so much to the average citizen. Generally they're too expensive for the average beer swilling, pick up driving American. /S At least that's my take on it. I'm sure many will disagree with that.

[P30]

I like this German definition of freedom:
"Jeder kann tun und lassen, was er will, wenn er keinem anderen schadet."

In English:
"Everyone can do whatever they want, if they don't harm anyone else."

I don't think that Hillary Clinton and people like her want to promote freedom in this sense.

[ccmdfd]

Just bring back the P7!!!!!

(yes I know. Highly unlikely)

[TheNewbie]

I wonder if they will do business with Israel now.

Was the P2000 ever offered with safety levers, anywhere?

[Trukinjp13]

Hopefully not many changes. Maybe give us a few more products we would like.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[OlongJohnson]

The way I read it is a company that's been knee-deep in HK financials for several years going to ass-deep in HK financials. Hopefully, they like the way things have been going and plan to stay the course fairly closely. Although if they could just throw some money around to put a dang Pic rail on the USP 9/40 FS & Compact frames...

[HCM]

https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2020/07/22/new-owners-for-heckler-koch/

Hopefully they use the word “liberal” in a way different than me.

“We want people to be able to live safely. Our products are designed to protect people in liberal, democratic countries from threats and violence. Heckler & Koch is the leading manufacturer of handguns for the NATO and EU countries and is proud that its assault rifles are standard equipment for many European armed and security forces.”

You mean you didn’t buy them ?

[HCM]

I wonder if they will do business with Israel now.

Was the P2000 ever offered with safety levers, anywhere?

I don’t think that is HK’s call. The German Govt is super picky about who can buy German guns and has a self loathing compulsion to put Germans arms makers out of business.

[MattyD380]

Good to hear HK is doing better. But I guess it was too late for Sig Sauer DE (I guess it’s technically Sauer?). I mean, I know we’ll never have P228s and P225s again... but I was still disappointed when I heard it was closing. In fact, I think I heard my P6 weeping quietly, that night.

[wvincent]

Just bring back the P7!!!!!

(yes I know. Highly unlikely)

Just bring back the HK social media girl!! And give her a P7. And pictures, gonna need pictures.

[RevolverRob]

Great. Did they get the memo - thumb safety VP9?

‘Cause, you know, that’s what I need.

[Wise_A]

Just bring back the P7!!!!!

(yes I know. Highly unlikely)

Do they come in a two-pack, so that when the one starts burning your hand you can switch?


Hopefully not many changes. Maybe give us a few more products we would like.

So like, just import more of their rifles? I dunno, I kinda feel like they already make one of everything I like. Maybe a factory 10mm USP? I've seen aftermarket .40 S&W barrels reamed to 10mm, but it's just not the same.

[Hambo]

I still expect no compromise from them

http://pics.sneezyfrog.com/5GAZFLqSnj.jpg

Except that they did when they changed this logo. ;)

57745

[BigT]

I don’t think that is HK’s call. The German Govt is super picky about who can buy German guns and has a self loathing compulsion to put Germans arms makers out of business.


Yup at least as of a few years ago HK want to do business, but Mutti Merkel says NEIN!

[tgoldie00]

Just bring back the P7!!!!!

(yes I know. Highly unlikely)

This!
I just bought my first P7 (1985 police return/import). The thing is astounding.

If not the whole thing just help is out with a run of a few critical parts and springs....

[Trukinjp13]

Do they come in a two-pack, so that when the one starts burning your hand you can switch?



So like, just import more of their rifles? I dunno, I kinda feel like they already make one of everything I like. Maybe a factory 10mm USP? I've seen aftermarket .40 S&W barrels reamed to 10mm, but it's just not the same.

Maybe just move more of the rifles to America to help cut down the cost. Give us some milk options possibly. I would like to see a single stack competitor from them. And honestly the p series triggers could still use some love.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[DC_P]

"Everyone can do whatever they want, if they don't harm anyone else."
.

A combination of live and let live and the golden rule. Can you imagine a world that lived by this? Utopia.

[ccmdfd]

If not the whole thing just help is out with a run of a few critical parts and springs....

Agreed, that would be nice.

The one thing that keeps me from shooting these more often is once a piece breaks, that's the end of it all.

[Sauer Koch]

I would like to see a single stack competitor from them. And honestly the p series triggers could still use some love.

+1 *A single stack P30 LEM would be great!

[CCT125US]

Start with meeting current demand, don't dilute the current line with new.

Says the guy who owns a dozen or so.

[Poconnor]

Just bring back the HK social media girl!! And give her a P7. And pictures, gonna need pictures.

I need pics of said social media girl. NSFW is ok since I’m retired.

[Poconnor]

The German government will fuck them again. They need to set up a completely separate and independent HK USA Company in the states. Have all production from mags, parts to complete guns manufactured in the states with very high quality control. Then start making all the roller lock rifles again. Price them right and then update and enlarge the handgun market. If daniel defense can grow a rifle company in this day and age HK can do it. I can dream

[Polecat]

Bring a USA division like Sig did, then to hell with broken mothership. Watch their profit sore from the massive civilian sales which they so wrongly discount. They can’t keep living off a bunch of HALO wannabes, and every dufuss who stuffs a MK23 in his waistband and prentends he’s a member of KSK, on his way to 7 eleven to get a Big Gulp. Lord Help.

[JRB]

So like, just import more of their rifles? I dunno, I kinda feel like they already make one of everything I like. Maybe a factory 10mm USP? I've seen aftermarket .40 S&W barrels reamed to 10mm, but it's just not the same.

Personally, I think an MR556 10.4in pistol would sell every example they make. Double points if offered in .300BO and tuned for suppressed/unsuppressed. Same for a UMP-45 pistol ala SP5K. Not that I particularly love the UMP, but HK collectors would ensure it stays backordered forever.

A 10mm version of the HK45/HK45C with an RDS plate would sell extremely well, I'd buy at least two of each. I have a USP40 I bought for a 10mm conversion project that was made possible by a run of 10mm barrels made by Michael's Machines. That part of it is perfect (though changing the recoil spring is a PITA) but the magazines are really the problem.

Fun fact - an HK45 10rnd magazine holds 16rnds of 10mm. :) It's my grand handgun folly. Currently, I'm patiently waiting for L&M Precision to start accepting USP RMR milling work.

[Shoresy]

Fun fact - an HK45 10rnd magazine holds 16rnds of 10mm.

57771

My only complaint about the HK45/HK45c is the magazine capacity and size (specifically, for a magazine that is noticably larger than a Glock 17 or Beretta 92 mag... I want it to hold more than 10 rounds).

[wvincent]

I need pics of said social media girl. NSFW is ok since I’m retired.

Supposedly this is she:
https://www.instagram.com/p/Br6VE4gHqBm/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link

And she is quite snarky at times, which is kinda hot. In a weird way.

[Greg]

Those of us without Instagram accounts can’t see Miss Snarky HK Hosebag....

[wvincent]

Those of us without Instagram accounts can’t see Miss Snarky HK Hosebag....

57778

[Wise_A]

Meh. I'm currently getting over a string of Food Network ladies dating back to Cat Cora and ending with Daphne Oz + Damaris Phillips, currently crushing on Kayleigh McEnany, who delivers top-shelf snark.

[Sig_Fiend]

I'll take a USP FS with P30 style slide and 1913 rail dustcover. Also, the same in a USP Compact. Also, P30's, HK45's, and VP's with the original HK45 prototype (P2K style) frames. Generally #DeathToSpidermanGrip (https://pistol-forum.com/usertag.php?do=list&action=hash&hash=DeathToSpidermanGrip)

Oh, and $1,000 semi MP5's... ;-)

[Hunter Rose]

I'll take a USP FS with P30 style slide and 1913 rail dustcover.

Ditch the dual spring "Recoil Reduction System" for a normal recoil spring like the P30 and you've described my perfect pistol.

[Poconnor]

I'll take a USP FS with P30 style slide and 1913 rail dustcover. Also, the same in a USP Compact. Also, P30's, HK45's, and VP's with the original HK45 prototype (P2K style) frames. Generally #DeathToSpidermanGrip (https://pistol-forum.com/usertag.php?do=list&action=hash&hash=DeathToSpidermanGrip)

Oh, and $1,000 semi MP5's... ;-)

I quoted this so I could “like” it twice. But add all the rifles!

[Greg Bell]

My super obvious suggestions for HK....

EASY PEASY

1. Bring in 416 and 417 pistols for easy cash bonanza.

2. Reconfigure the Mr223 and Mr308 to more closely mimic their military models. This may run afoul of German Export laws.

3. Bring in G36 Commando based pistol.

HARD
4. Make a P2000 Sized VP9. Use Current Vp9 followers or similar to bring out capacity to 14 or 15 to attract the G19 crowd.

Fantasy....
5. Start manufacturing P7M8s again. I am afraid this may be near impossible since I think all those folks were mostly gone by the early 00s. The parts situation with the P7 is pretty bad.

[falar]

Supposedly this is she:
https://www.instagram.com/p/Br6VE4gHqBm/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link

And she is quite snarky at times, which is kinda hot. In a weird way.

I like women with an attitude as well. Kind of like Leah Remini's character on King of Queens.

Anyway, I hope that HK stays well enough connected to the German political machine to continue exporting quality arms to the us. Clearly, SIG did not and look where they are now.

We seem to be headed towards a less favorable trade status with Germany though because of their sharp leftward turn, who knows how long we'll be able to get HKs. The good news is we're seeing more and more quality imports from countries that used to be behind the curtain so that will offset if Germany puts themselves behind one. Irony.

[CCT125US]

Fantasy....
5.... The parts situation with the P7 is pretty bad.

Yes... but with enough demand, or cash, I suspect someone would be willing to tool up. There are some really, really die hard fans of the P7 series.

[falar]

My super obvious suggestions for HK....

The parts situation with the P7 is pretty bad.

Which is exactly why I sold my P7 even though my wife loved it and basically stole it from me.

I had 5 mags, but I wasn't about to pay 100 bucks each for more. Parts were pretty much non-existent as well, or at prices I wouldn't pay.

So I sold it and nearly quadrupled my money.

[ccmdfd]

Which is exactly why I sold my P7 even though my wife loved it and basically stole it from me.

I had 5 mags, but I wasn't about to pay 100 bucks each for more. Parts were pretty much non-existent as well, or at prices I wouldn't pay.

So I sold it and nearly quadrupled my money.

What are they going for these days?

[falar]

What are they going for these days?

For a P7 1500-2000

For M8s and M13s the sky is the limit.

[Catshooter]

" Heckler & Koch is the leading manufacturer of handguns for the NATO and EU countries . . . " Oh really? I bet that comes as quite a surprise to that little, obscure company called Glock.

Arrogant as ever.


Cat

[HALO51]

" Heckler & Koch is the leading manufacturer of handguns for the NATO and EU countries . . . " Oh really? I bet that comes as quite a surprise to that little, obscure company called Glock.

Arrogant as ever.


Cat

I wouldn't say 'arrogant" HK doesn't BETA test their platforms in the general population, R&D is it's heritage. Glock is good, but NO HK. Along with pistols, Hk makes civilian rifles, grenade launchers, machine guns, rifles, shotguns, sniper rifles, submachine guns. Not arrogant at all, just well rounded & respected.

[UNM1136]

Except that they did when they changed this logo. ;)

57745

I used to have a T-shirt from them with that motto, got it about two years before they compromised....

pat

[HCM]

I like women with an attitude as well. Kind of like Leah Remini's character on King of Queens.

Anyway, I hope that HK stays well enough connected to the German political machine to continue exporting quality arms to the us. Clearly, SIG did not and look where they are now.

We seem to be headed towards a less favorable trade status with Germany though because of their sharp leftward turn, who knows how long we'll be able to get HKs. The good news is we're seeing more and more quality imports from countries that used to be behind the curtain so that will offset if Germany puts themselves behind one. Irony.

It’s not a matter of how well connected they are. The German government doesn’t want an arms industry to exist much less a German one. They are tolerated as a necessary evil.

[falar]

It’s not a matter of how well connected they are. The German government doesn’t want an arms industry to exist much less a German one. They are tolerated as a necessary evil.

Yes but like with all governments, I'm sure money talks.

[HCM]

Yes but like with all governments, I'm sure money talks.

Their govt didn’t believe in civilian gun ownership and for them there is no real money in the civilian market unless the make the guns in their U.S. subsidiary.

Germany has its own version of ITAR and the U.S. subsidiaries of German Arms makers are treated as completely separate foreign entities under Germany’s version of ITAR.

Tha means the legal and technical side of making a US made version of a German gun is a lot more complicated than just e mailing a zip file with blueprints.

[falar]

Their govt didn’t believe in civilian gun ownership and for them there is no real money in the civilian market unless the make the guns in their U.S. subsidiary.

Germany has its own version of ITAR and the U.S. subsidiaries of German Arms makers are treated as completely separate foreign entities under Germany’s version of ITAR.

Tha means the legal and technical side of making a US made version of a German gun is a lot more complicated than just e mailing a zip file with blueprints.

You seem to have this weird thing about quoting me and posting the obvious without really seeing what I was alluding to.

[HCM]

You seem to have this weird thing about quoting me and posting the obvious without really seeing what I was alluding to.

Things don’t work the way you are posting.

[Greg Bell]

" Heckler & Koch is the leading manufacturer of handguns for the NATO and EU countries . . . " Oh really? I bet that comes as quite a surprise to that little, obscure company called Glock.

Arrogant as ever.


LOL, you better not read Glock's press releases. Those MFs are PERFECTION. It's a press release, lighten up.

[BigT]

Yes but like with all governments, I'm sure money talks.


Except no, the Germans have cut off a lot of money in gun sales.

[Lex Luthier]

Just bring back the P7!!!!!

(yes I know. Highly unlikely)

You know, if they can take, say, the poly framed Walther/Umarex CCP idea and make it work as well as the P7* did, I'd as be happy as a very happy thing**.



*Think Datsun/Nissan buying the rights to the Kawasaki/Toyota 2000 and turning it into the iconic 240Z. Say what you want, they were great cars for their time. I've driven one of the original Toyotas, too. The Datsuns worked better, and for far longer.

** imagine a CCP that a) had a credible trigger and b) took a VP9 magazine and c) was H und K reliable. That gun would sell a million-and-six copies. Who cares how hot it got after four mag dumps?

[RAM Engineer]

*Think Datsun/Nissan buying the rights to the Kawasaki/Toyota 2000 and turning it into the iconic 240Z. Say what you want, they were great cars for their time. I've driven one of the original Toyotas, too. The Datsuns worked better, and for far longer.

Got a source for that? From everything I've heard, the 240Z was designed completely in-house by Nissan. The Toyota 2000GT was based on a prototype by Yamaha which was jointly designed with Nissan, rejected by Nissan, then completed by Yamaha and taken to Toyota.

[Sauer Koch]

You know, if they can take, say, the poly framed Walther/Umarex CCP idea and make it work as well as the P7* did, I'd as be happy as a very happy thing**.



*Think Datsun/Nissan buying the rights to the Kawasaki/Toyota 2000 and turning it into the iconic 240Z. Say what you want, they were great cars for their time. I've driven one of the original Toyotas, too. The Datsuns worked better, and for far longer.

** imagine a CCP that a) had a credible trigger and b) took a VP9 magazine and c) was H und K reliable. That gun would sell a million-and-six copies. Who cares how hot it got after four mag dumps?

I held a CCP, and it felt amazing in the hand! I'd love to shoot one.

I also held a PPS M2, and found myself not wanting to let go of it! If it shoots as nice as it feels in the hand, it'd be amazing.

So, the question is, how many years will it take HK to release a single stack; 3 years, 5, 7, 10??

[OfficeCat]

I also held a PPS M2, and found myself not wanting to let go of it! If it shoots as nice as it feels in the hand, it'd be amazing.

So, the question is, how many years will it take HK to release a single stack; 3 years, 5, 7, 10??

Re: the PPS, in my experience it does and it is. Great example of a "little gun that shoots like a big gun." Pretty much disappears AIWB under a normal fitting T-shirt, so I have no desire for anything smaller, and shoots so well that capacity is the only benefit I can see in a larger gun. I'm a big fan and recommend it without reservation.

That said, I'd love to see what H&K would do with the concept.

[Lex Luthier]

Got a source for that? From everything I've heard, the 240Z was designed completely in-house by Nissan. The Toyota 2000GT was based on a prototype by Yamaha which was jointly designed with Nissan, rejected by Nissan, then completed by Yamaha and taken to Toyota.

The source? A badly remembered sequence made it into a late night comment. You are entirely correct, RAM Engineer. Mea Culpa.

[MistWolf]

...imagine a CCP that a) had a credible trigger and b) took a PPQ magazine and c) was H und K reliable...

Fixed it for ya

[JHC]

I'm not sure, what "liberal" means in English, I'm German. I suppose, originally it also means "pertaining to freedom" but nowadays it is sometimes used with a perverted meaning. Is that true?

I would say that is generally true yes. In this context it's the democracies that respect human rights; the values of the Enlightenment. Versus "ill-liberal" such as autocratic regimes.