AR Pistol Buffer Tube for LAW folder & Tailhook--help please

[Willard]

Slowly assembling an AR pistol as I can source the parts I want. Understanding there is an O/L issue & tube length issue. So, I have two questions I hope the hive can help with. I am using a LAW folder and latest version Tailhook (Mod 1 with reduced footprint).

1) What is a/the recommended buffer tube that is compatible with both and does not exceed ATF length requirements? If I understand correctly, there are both length and compatibility issues at work here.

2) 5.56 pistol upper...will I be OK with 10.5 - 12.5 upper with said tube or do I need to keep it to 10.5?

Seeing too many seemingly contradictory reports and just getting more confused. Want to get this right from the onset.

Thank you in advance for your time.

[MistWolf]

There was some scuttlebutt about a maximum length of pull of 13.5" for braces, but it's not a regulation nor is it official policy.

[WobblyPossum]

There was some scuttlebutt about a maximum length of pull of 13.5" for braces, but it's not a regulation nor is it official policy.

Whether or not it’s been codified in the CFR, it has been argued in court by an AUSA attempting to convict a defendant of having manufactured an unregistered SBR. That’s enough for me to stay under 13.5”. Maximum LOP would be measured with the Law in its extended, non-folded position with the brace extended as far as it will go when using a brace that adjusts.

[Casual Friday]

Slowly assembling an AR pistol as I can source the parts I want. Understanding there is an O/L issue & tube length issue. So, I have two questions I hope the hive can help with. I am using a LAW folder and latest version Tailhook (Mod 1 with reduced footprint).

1) What is a/the recommended buffer tube that is compatible with both and does not exceed ATF length requirements? If I understand correctly, there are both length and compatibility issues at work here.

2) 5.56 pistol upper...will I be OK with 10.5 - 12.5 upper with said tube or do I need to keep it to 10.5?

Seeing too many seemingly contradictory reports and just getting more confused. Want to get this right from the onset.

Thank you in advance for your time.

It's not an OAL issue unless you're referring to a state law, use any length upper you want. It's a LOP issue that the ATF used in one case as referenced above.

One of mine is setup with a Law folder, A5 receiver extension and a Tailhook mod 1. It is well short of 13.5" LOP.

[theJanitor]

Is there a specific way the ATF is measuring LOP?

[Casual Friday]

Willard I just went and measured mine, it's 12 1/8" from the back of the brace to the trigger face. That's with an A5 tube though so you can subtract 3/4" for a standard carbine tube.

[Willard]

Willard I just went and measured mine, it's 12 1/8" from the back of the brace to the trigger face. That's with an A5 tube though so you can subtract 3/4" for a standard carbine tube.

Perfect! Thank you!

[Norville]

Is there a specific way the ATF is measuring LOP?

Not that I have heard of. The 13.5” “rule” gets mentioned a lot but there is no written regulation or measurement procedures.

Wasn’t there a Congressman trying to help with this?

That’s sarcasm :rolleyes:

[WobblyPossum]

Is there a specific way the ATF is measuring LOP?

The standard method, as mentioned during that trial, is to measure parallel to the bore. The measurement is from the face of the trigger to where the furthest point of the brace/stock would be if placed on the line of measurement. The issue raised during the trial was that the prosecution measured the LOP at an upwards angle from the trigger face to the actual furthest point of the modified brace, causing the measurement to be longer than it would have been if measured parallel to bore. When measured properly, the LOP of the defendant’s pistol was just under 13.5”. I believe that is one of the major factors that led to his acquittal but it’s been a while since I read the coverage of that case. I found this TTAG article (https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.thetruthaboutguns.com/atf-suffers-rare-court-loss-in-ohio-short-barrel-rifle-prosecution/amp/) about the case.

The way I look at it is that there is case law about how people can’t be expected to know about an obscure regulatory standard that hasn’t been widely publicized. In this case that would refer to the fact that the ATF told numerous brave manufacturers about the 13.5” LOP limit in private letter but did not publicize it. Now that there has been a criminal prosecution that has been discussed online, that I have read about the case and discussed it with others, and this was one of the points raised, I would find it hard to argue that I’m unfamiliar with this LOP measurement limit. I used super glue to install one of the SB Tactical LOP limiters on my carbine receiver extension to block the final adjustment hole because, with the Law folder, the LOP of my SBA3 brace would be longer than 13.5” at that farthest point. Now it’s just under 13.5”.

With a TailHook brace, you likely wouldn’t reach 13.5” even with an A5 tube and a Law folder.