USMC fielding suppressors to all infantry squads starting this year

[HCM]

The Marine Corps plans on fielding suppressors to infantry squads starting this year

Anyone know which KAC can they are going with ?


https://taskandpurpose.com/military-tech/marine-corps-supressors-fielding?fbclid=IwAR231yTChgu4IN1ToP3psYnCzm3nHWJ_ 5yrRwsFuouVT9QKp-d9TannSstQ


formations will start receiving suppressors for their small arms at the end of this year, Task & Purpose has learned.

Marine Corps Systems Command on Thursday announced its intent to award a single-source contract to Knight's Armament Company for 5.56 small arms suppressors for use on the Corps' arsenal of M27 Infantry Automatic Rifles, M4 carbines, and M4A1 Close Quarter Battle Weapons


https://beta.sam.gov/opp/f9df29ca28614ae4bbd3045116f45d18/view?index=opp&psc=10&page=1

[littlejerry]

Wow. Im surprised.

I wonder if this will result in different maintenance intervals.

[TGS]

I wonder if this will result in different maintenance intervals.

On that, rcbusmc24 does the currently fielded iteration of the M27 have a gas block capable of accommodating the increased backpressure ala the HK416N, or is that in the works as well? Did you guys start buying an M27 for everyone as announced, or will infantry be fielding the suppressor on M4 carbines for the foreseeable future?

[rcbusmc24]

Suppressor will be the legacy KAC NT4... it's in the system and the service already knows it. I figure the maintenance interval will remain roughly the same as it is now at the unit level, we already destroy most of our guns through overzealous cleaning. Depot level service will probably go up as parts wear out quicker... You can't do mag dumps with that can for long so the automatic rifle might be a issue.... Seen several destroyed that way...

All of the IARs have a bleed off point gas block, I am pretty sure that was only a issue with the early 10.4 inch guns.... All of the longer barreled varients came out with that mod, to include the civ sales models...

We are proceeding with getting a IAR for every rifleman in the Infantry Bn's. Not sure if that is complete yet or not, my old BN received theirs as I was leaving to go to EOTG...

[littlejerry]

Suppressor will be the legacy KAC NT4... it's in the system and the service already knows it. I figure the maintenance interval will remain roughly the same as it is now at the unit level, we already destroy most of our guns through overzealous cleaning. Depot level service will probably go up as parts wear out quicker... You can't do mag dumps with that can for long so the automatic rifle might be a issue.... Seen several destroyed that way...

All of the IARs have a bleed off point gas block, I am pretty sure that was only a issue with the early 10.4 inch guns.... All of the longer barreled varients came out with that mod, to include the civ sales models...

We are proceeding with getting a IAR for every rifleman in the Infantry Bn's. Not sure if that is complete yet or not, my old BN received theirs as I was leaving to go to EOTG...

Just out of curiosity, how much will the IAR weigh as issued with optic and suppressor? Doesn't the IAR have a meaty barrel on it?

[rcbusmc24]

Don't know the exact weight, but it is much heavier than the M4... It's also a long musket...

[Borderland]

Army has a different approach. This works for a lot of situations besides muzzle blast. I wish I had something like this in the 70's. I lost some hearing while in the Navy. VA caught me up.

https://www.digitaltrends.com/cool-tech/army-noise-canceling-headset/

[HCM]

Army has a different approach. This works for a lot of situations besides muzzle blast. I wish I had something like this in the 70's. I lost some hearing while in the Navy. VA caught me up.

https://www.digitaltrends.com/cool-tech/army-noise-canceling-headset/

These headsets are used in all services and headsets dont help conceal your position from the enemy. They also dont address over pressure in confined spaces.

[rcbusmc24]

These cans will not make the rifles hearing safe.... no rifle suppressor can really do that on a 5.56 gun.... They do make communication much easier though, and they help reduce the blast and over pressure that you will get from firing in confined spaces. They also assist greatly in reducing the flash signature at night or from darkened areas, helping to keep firing positions hidden longer. They also assist with dust being kicked up as well. It takes much longer for observers to locate firing positions of units or individuals shooting suppressed, particularly at night than it does un-suppressed. Signature reduction is the goal, not just hearing protection....Most units are either issuing electronic hearing pro to guys or authorize it's use if not provided. Our new inbound helmets will also allow for easier integration with electronic hearing pro as well.

[TGS]

These cans will not make the rifles hearing safe.... no rifle suppressor can really do that on a 5.56 gun....

Weeeelllll....

AEM-5 or AEM-4. Usually not looked at as a serious option these days due to its weight and length, but it's no heavier or longer OAL than a QDSS NT4, if that's the standard we're comparing against, and regardless of being dated is still the quietest 5.56 suppressor around (even admitted by their competition) and actually hearing safe.

I imagine that it's no longer an orderable product in the system given the dissolution of the USG vendor (Ops Inc), and having some light involvement with federal acquisitions as a technical representative/SME I can completely understand the need to go with a turn-key plug-and-play solution already in the system as opposed to starting a new RFP and going through that mess.

[rcbusmc24]

Was not one of the tested cans from the trials that were run, If we had gone with the best preforming can from those trials it would have probably been the OSS one selected, as it is they went with the low hanging fruit option.

It is what it is and is better than no cans, I suppose, which is the way it was looking for a while. When people kept trying to make "Hearing Safe" the major selling point....Once the item was sold to the decision makers as a lethality/ capability improvement they were all on board, when it was just being brought up as a safety device, not as many thought them required, just issue ear plugs....

The new service rifle is going to be a pig, As it is a 16 inch barreled, Quad rail equipped HK 416 with the new SCO ( Trijicon 1-6 VCOG won the solicitation), PEQ-16, grip, and suppressor hanging off of it.... Personally, I am not totally sold on the M27 for everyone but, well, I'm not the decision maker, it does what its told and shuts up and colors sometimes.....

[HCM]

Weeeelllll....

AEM-5 or AEM-4. Usually not looked at as a serious option these days due to its weight and length, but it's no heavier or longer OAL than a QDSS NT4, if that's the standard we're comparing against, and regardless of being dated is still the quietest 5.56 suppressor around (even admitted by their competition) and actually hearing safe.

I imagine that it's no longer an orderable product in the system given the dissolution of the USG vendor (Ops Inc), and having some light involvement with federal acquisitions as a technical representative/SME I can completely understand the need to go with a turn-key plug-and-play solution already in the system as opposed to starting a new RFP and going through that mess.

But as you know the official goal was capability / lethality enhancement vs hearing safe.

Both the NT4 and the Surefire cans are often criticized for not being the quietest but they also have low back pressure which is important as getting gassed out by your suppressor is a thing.

Not to mention the cost of ops inc collar mounting set ups (or OSS or Surefire muzzle devices) vs simply replacing the crush washer behind standard A2 birdcages with a shim kit that costs less than $5.

I can sympathize as my organization tested multiple suppressors, the one adopted, the AAC M4, was the lowest rated of the 4 which passed evaluation but was half the cost (at GOV contract price) of the other three so.....

[Borderland]

Was not one of the tested cans from the trials that were run, If we had gone with the best preforming can from those trials it would have probably been the OSS one selected, as it is they went with the low hanging fruit option.

It is what it is and is better than no cans, I suppose, which is the way it was looking for a while. When people kept trying to make "Hearing Safe" the major selling point....Once the item was sold to the decision makers as a lethality/ capability improvement they were all on board, when it was just being brought up as a safety device, not as many thought them required, just issue ear plugs....

The new service rifle is going to be a pig, As it is a 16 inch barreled, Quad rail equipped HK 416 with the new SCO ( Trijicon 1-6 VCOG won the solicitation), PEQ-16, grip, and suppressor hanging off of it.... Personally, I am not totally sold on the M27 for everyone but, well, I'm not the decision maker, it does what its told and shuts up and colors sometimes.....

Is that going to be across all services or just USMC? I don't keep up.

[rcbusmc24]

Is that going to be across all services or just USMC? I don't keep up.

USMC- for Infantry Battalions and other selected formations, everyone else will keep using the M4....

[HCM]

https://soldiersystems.net/2020/07/14/us-marine-corps-intends-to-sole-source-knights-armament-co-nt-4-suppressor/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=facebook&utm_campaign=us-marine-corps-intends-to-sole-source-knights-armament-co-nt-4-suppressor


US Marine Corps Intends To Sole Source Knights Armament Co NT-4 Suppressor


Marine Corps Systems Command has published their intent to solicit and negotiate with only one source, specifically Knights Armament Co to purchase 5.56mm Small Arms Suppressors to be used on the M27 Infantry Automatic Rifle (IAR), M4 Carbine and M4A1 Close Quarter Battle Weapon. The Marines plan to field the KAC NT-4 to satisfy their requirement for close combat forces.


All of that sounds great right? Here’s where they lose me. The crux of their argument for sole sourcing the NT-4 isn’t that it has an NSN, not that they already have some. Instead, they push its compatibility with Bayonets, Collimators, Boresights and Blank Firing Adapters.

The KAC Small Arms Suppressor will enable the USMC to continue to use their existing bayonets, as well as their existing Small Arms Collimators (SAC), Laser Boresights (LBS), and Blank Firing Adapters (BFA), all of which are critical to accuracy and lethality in both training and combat. These items are interoperable with the current Small Arms Suppressor.

Since this a notice of intent, other companies can still submit (see SAMS for details) if they believe they meet these requirements.

[ranger]

Every time I see this thread I have this vision of an issue suppressor at a pawn shop near a base or on eBay. I know its illegal, etc. but....

[JRB]

Every time I see this thread I have this vision of an issue suppressor at a pawn shop near a base or on eBay. I know its illegal, etc. but....

I'm sure they'll be SI by themselves just like a thermal optic or NVG's.

[Duke]

Every time I see this thread I have this vision of an issue suppressor at a pawn shop near a base or on eBay. I know its illegal, etc. but....

Yea. But why

It’s a fucking inert metal tube

I’ve got a whole book of stamps. I love short and quiet things.

But the suppressor registry is just window licker stupid.

Prevents no murders....saves no children....

“Hey how could we turn the most unless machine thing into reality?”

[JRB]

Yea. But why

It’s a fucking inert metal tube

I’ve got a whole book of stamps. I love short and quiet things.

But the suppressor registry is just window licker stupid.

Prevents no murders....saves no children....

“Hey how could we turn the most unless machine thing into reality?”

It is one of the stupidest gun laws currently on the books, right next to the SBR/SBS/AOW idiocy. I don't think anyone here disagrees.

[Duke]

It is one of the stupidest gun laws currently on the books, right next to the SBR/SBS/AOW idiocy. I don't think anyone here disagrees.

Yes. Sorry for the rant.

Just thinking government bows to mobs.

You want a tax free can. #metoo (https://pistol-forum.com/usertag.php?do=list&action=hash&hash=metoo)

My rifle my choice.

I will be silenced or whatever.

[jbrimlow]

Oh hell yes.

Bravo Zulu devil dogs.

Really good idea.

[rcbusmc24]

I mean, I've already seen liberated suppressors floating around in the greater Eastern and Central NC areas, pretty sure most of those came from kits or one off special unit purchases back in the day with the good old contingency funding but..... well, they are out there.... I personally don't want to touch a illegal can with a ten foot pole, they ain't that cool, and this is coming from a guy who has plenty of them now but had held off for a long time....

After most of 2nd Mar Div got back from Trident Juncture in Norway back in 2018, my buddies gun shop had a influx of dudes coming in for a few months trying to find out how to register the cans they had bought over the counter in Norway. Over there it's easier to buy a suppressor than a pocket knife, and they are cheap..... 200 to a few hundred bucks at most.... Most of the dudes had no idea that they couldn't just register the things once they got them back to the States.... Haven't seen any of them for a minute, guess they are all tucked away in the same location with all the "lost" WW2 era MG's from back in the day, and expensive ass optics and lasers that always seem to turn up at surprisingly affordable prices, almost as if their "owners' have no idea how much this stuff really costs..... again more things I don't want to touch and a reason my buddy keeps NCIS/ CID as a setting on the speed dial for the shop phone....

[Borderland]

Yea. But why

It’s a fucking inert metal tube

I’ve got a whole book of stamps. I love short and quiet things.

But the suppressor registry is just window licker stupid.

Prevents no murders....saves no children....

“Hey how could we turn the most unless machine thing into reality?”

It's the way we do things here. Absolutely no rhyme or reason to any of it. I've been waiting on a background check for a week and I just got one 3 weeks ago. I also have a concealed pistol permit. I could be waiting another week according to state law. Makes me want to buy a dozen AR lowers just to say kiss my ass. I don't even own an AR.

[RevolverRob]

1) USMC Field Suppressors to all Infantry Squads - Excellent. Regardless of KAC NT4 or whatever, it's about time that suppressors became standard issue equipment for boots on the ground. No, they aren't 'hearing safe', but the reduction in blast and pressure + reduction in noise will make whatever cheapo hearing plugs issued more effective. I view this as win-win-win.

2) RE: Suppressor regs - Wouldn't matter if we got rid of NFA - states would just regulate the shit out of suppressors wherever possible. I'm sitting in a place right now, where the mere possession of a registered suppressor part carries a 10-year prison term...In some ways, I prefer dealing with the Feds, because at least there is a single unit to deal with. Most states just defer to the NFA for regulatory needs in this regard, making it easier to deal with these types of things. Yea, I think inert tubes of metal being regulated is dumb too. I think that being able to get rammed in the ass for 10-years, in the panopticon house of the Stateville Correctional Center, for having a piece of rubber that is a suppressor wipe is even stupider...

I guess my point re: 2, we can't put the genie back in the bottle regarding silencer regulations. Whether we eliminate the NFA or not. At least with the NFA, as annoying as it is, there is a more centralized set of regulations, instead of a patchwork of state regulations that vary when you drive over an arbitrary invisible line.

[JSGlock34]

I imagine this could be valuable in enhancing squad communications.

Then again, I'm old enough to remember using (or at least trying to use) whistle blasts to signal squad/platoon actions.

It can get kinda loud when the whole platoon opens up.

[CleverNickname]

2) RE: Suppressor regs - Wouldn't matter if we got rid of NFA - states would just regulate the shit out of suppressors wherever possible.
Some would, but many (maybe even most) wouldn't.



At least with the NFA, as annoying as it is, there is a more centralized set of regulations, instead of a patchwork of state regulations that vary when you drive over an arbitrary invisible line.
Following that logic, we should all hope for a new federal AWB so we can get rid of this patchwork of state regulations for semi-auto rifles. Everyone gets to be California or New York!

[RevolverRob]

Some would, but many (maybe even most) wouldn't.

I would not bet on that at all. States already regulate suppressors, they just do so, by adopting the standard of, "If it's registered with the NFA it's legal." If there is no NFA, they lose their federal regulatory oversight in this regard, most states will likely either adopt internal registration, requirements for background checks to purchase, and pass (more) laws regarding the use of suppressors (if they don't have them already).


Following that logic, we should all hope for a new federal AWB so we can get rid of this patchwork of state regulations for semi-auto rifles. Everyone gets to be California or New York!

Following that logic, a state should not be allowed to ban NFA items, just 'cause they want too.

[BehindBlueI's]

I think pretty much all of us agree the restrictions on ownership of suppressors is stupid, but let's keep this thread on the USMC topic.