Another highway take-over, another group of protesters struck

[BehindBlueI's]

https://www.foxnews.com/us/2-women-hit-by-car-on-seattle-highway-closed-amid-protests

I really only posted this to quote this piece of journalistic excellence:


Video of the crash on social media showed a white car striking the women, who flew into the air before landing on the ground.

No shit? Thanks, Fox. I would be left wondering if they were still floating in the air if not for Fox taking the time to inform me gravity is still a thing.

[ssb]

I went to a school for crash reconstruction for people who aren't good at math or science once, and they did some simulated pedestrian strikes. I remember that a 30mph strike sent the test dummy about 120 feet...

[Half Moon]

https://www.foxnews.com/us/2-women-hit-by-car-on-seattle-highway-closed-amid-protests

I really only posted this to quote this piece of journalistic excellence:



No shit? Thanks, Fox. I would be left wondering if they were still floating in the air if not for Fox taking the time to inform me gravity is still a thing.


https://youtu.be/3PzY_ro13UE

I am Isaac Newton and I approve this message...

[O4L]

I went to a school for crash reconstruction for people who aren't good at math or science once, and they did some simulated pedestrian strikes. I remember that a 30mph strike sent the test dummy about 120 feet...Kind of like being shot with .45ACP! [emoji16]

[blues]

Of course we didn't investigate such scenes as feds, but I've come up on a few. The saddest thing for me was always the empty shoes, and the rag doll limpness of the bodies after the bones have been broken. Just one of those images that stays with you.

[Malamute]

Curious to see what further information comes out. Saw this in the news clips this morning, other vids showed that (I believe) prior to the pedestrians being hit, the car was stopped, had flashers on, then being approached by someone on foot, shouting and angry pedestrian addressing driver, then a couple shots before the car took off. No idea if shots were incoming or outgoing.

Another clip showed a woman witness discussing it and mentioning the shots from somewhere she couldnt see before the pedestrian strikes.

[5pins]

If I'm ever in a situation where I'm stuck in the middle of a protest I'm going to just sit it out and stew. If shots are fired or if my car is breeched or trying to disable it (like cutting the tires or flipping it over) or otherwise putting me or my passengers at danger then its right pedal.

[GyroF-16]

If I'm ever in a situation where I'm stuck in the middle of a protest I'm going to just sit it out and stew. If shots are fired or if my car is breeched or trying to disable it (like cutting the tires or flipping it over) or otherwise putting me or my passengers at danger then its right pedal.

That seems like an extremely reasonable plan.
Accept (but resent) the inconvenience.
Don’t accept threats to your safety.

[Lost River]

Of course we didn't investigate such scenes as feds, but I've come up on a few. The saddest thing for me was always the empty shoes, and the rag doll limpness of the bodies after the bones have been broken. Just one of those images that stays with you.



Speaking of feds not investigating crashes, in one of those strange "Never thought it would of occurred, but it did" kind of incidents, I will share an event that happened while I was working in Iraq.

I was working doing PSD, and we were doing our thing on a run. There was an incident involving one of our vehicles that was an injury/fatality type situation for the occupants.

There is a lot more to the story, but I am not sure what still might be current SOP, so I will skip that part. Anyways we got our guys on the helo, and we were out of there quickly.

On the way back to our REO, I was thinking that due to seriousness of the situation that there would be an investigation, and if we did not preserve the evidence then too many things could go wrong and be called into question.

Once back I went to the headshed, and talked to the bosses and pitched my idea.

I said that since I was one of the few guys who had a background as an investigator, and there was another guy I knew who did as well, that we should get a helicopter, and some gear, some guys for security, and go do a reconstruction immediately before the vehicle was scavenged/dragged off by the locals. So with tape measures and other gear in hand, we had the birds re-fuel and off we went.



https://i.imgur.com/3W7HIXj.jpg


We ended up doing a pretty decent reconstruction (based on the limited resources at hand), complete with coefficients of friction, yaw mark speed calculations, the whole nine yards. It took a good while since we were working with limited resources . It was very fortunate we got on it when we did, as by the time we got out there, the vehicle had already been moved from it final resting place. In fact you can see in the pic that the vehicle had been dragged away from where it initially came to rest.

I figured it was important for transparency. The families of our men, our organization, everyone involved would be better off with a purely fact based report. (The outfit I worked for at that time was very small and our reputation was everything, so it was important to maintain it) When the investigators got there a few days later, I was called in and interviewed after they spoke to our Regional Security Officer (RSO). I was able to simply hand them a packet of facts, including vehicle speed, times the vehicle rolled, final resting place, etc. Some of it needed some clarification as they were investigators, but not crash investigators, and some of the stuff was based on math formulas only used in crash investigations (as far as I know).

It went well and our organization was immediately cleared. The interesting thing was that I was offered a contract job with them, investigating critical incidents involving contractors in the middle east. However while I was honored by the offer, it paid less than what I was doing, so I declined.

One thing that I found irony in was that I had absolutely hated taking crash reports, and had always taken other roles/assignments such as firearms instructor, EP, etc. Anything to avoid doing crash reports.:rolleyes:

Never expected I would end up doing one for the feds a few years later on a highway in the middle of a war zone.:cool:

[blues]

Hell, I even squirmed out of doing accident reports when I was duty agent (once every few months) and one of the agents or inspectors got themselves in an accident with a g-ride and called it in. I pride myself on that accomplishment. :p

[HCM]

https://www.foxnews.com/us/2-women-hit-by-car-on-seattle-highway-closed-amid-protests

I really only posted this to quote this piece of journalistic excellence:



No shit? Thanks, Fox. I would be left wondering if they were still floating in the air if not for Fox taking the time to inform me gravity is still a thing.

Calling them protesters, or even "protesters" plays into the anarcho-communist narrative, promotes a cycle of escalation and diminishes legitimate protesters.

FOX and all of us need to stop calling them protesters, or even "protesters" rather call them what they are, rioters.

[SeriousStudent]

Of course we didn't investigate such scenes as feds, but I've come up on a few. The saddest thing for me was always the empty shoes, and the rag doll limpness of the bodies after the bones have been broken. Just one of those images that stays with you.

Always check the trees.

[Joe in PNG]

Wad the fook is blocking highways supposed to accomplish in the long term, really? Are people who are trying to get home after a hard day's work (and the need for a quiet sitdown in the bathroom) supposed to be suddenly converted to the cause because a bunch of people are standing in their way?

My suspicion is that it's justified trolling.

[BehindBlueI's]

Wad the fook is blocking highways supposed to accomplish in the long term, really? Are people who are trying to get home after a hard day's work (and the need for a quiet sitdown in the bathroom) supposed to be suddenly converted to the cause because a bunch of people are standing in their way?

My suspicion is that it's justified trolling.

The whole point of a protest is to get eyeballs, and blocking a major roadway gets media attention and that greatly expands how many eyeballs see it.

I've mentioned on here before that we, as a department, have a pretty good relationship with most of our protesters. Most of the arrests are staged. We know ahead of time who's going to remain in the street after being told to leave. They get "arrested" and get their picture in the media. We get cooperation in knowing when and where and for how long so we can safely shut down traffic.

I disagree that simply blocking traffic makes an otherwise peaceful protest into a riot. Threatening occupants of vehicles, etc. then yes. A sit-in in an intersection is just regular hippy shit. Interstates just require more hippies.

[Clusterfrack]

BBI, I don’t agree with you that blocking highways is acceptable or legal. This is dangerous for many reasons, and threatens the safety of protesters, drivers, bystanders, those in need of urgent medical transportation, and more.

In my ideal city, protests are limited to prescribed areas, and when they turn destructive, violent, or otherwise unlawful, they will be shut down.

[Joe in PNG]

The whole point of a protest is to get eyeballs, and blocking a major roadway gets media attention and that greatly expands how many eyeballs see it.

I've mentioned on here before that we, as a department, have a pretty good relationship with most of our protesters. Most of the arrests are staged. We know ahead of time who's going to remain in the street after being told to leave. They get "arrested" and get their picture in the media. We get cooperation in knowing when and where and for how long so we can safely shut down traffic.

I disagree that simply blocking traffic makes an otherwise peaceful protest into a riot. Threatening occupants of vehicles, etc. then yes. A sit-in in an intersection is just regular hippy shit. Interstates just require more hippies.

So, just organized trolling then, with no real long term goal. Which is counter to what the old Civil Rights protest, which were done with an actual goal in mind.

[blues]

BBI, I don’t agree with you that blocking highways is acceptable or legal. This is dangerous for many reasons, and threatens the safety of protesters, drivers, bystanders, those in need of urgent medical transportation, and more.

In my ideal city, protests are limited to prescribed areas, and when they turn destructive, violent, or otherwise unlawful, they will be shut down.

Well, he's not saying it's legal...by any means, simply that they have found a way via communication from keeping things from going all the way sideways.

I won't try to answer the rest of the particulars because your points are well taken, CF.

[FNFAN]

I went to a school for crash reconstruction for people who aren't good at math or science once, and they did some simulated pedestrian strikes. I remember that a 30mph strike sent the test dummy about 120 feet...

I worked a call where they determined the pedestrian went airborne 187 feet. Left his laced up tennis shoes in the middle of the crosswalk.:(

[Lost River]

What is truly BS is calling the people on the roadways who are struck by the vehicles "victims", and the innocent motorists "suspects".

That shit is absolutely ass backwards.

The people made a purposeful decision to place themselves on the roadway, breaking the law.

That does not make them a victim,

unless it is of their own stupidity.

The motorist was simply driving to or from wherever, minding their own business, and are the victims of the lawbreakers.


There are always going to be select circumstances that may differ, but that seems to be a common theme.

This shit is getting real old, real fast.

[BehindBlueI's]

BBI, I don’t agree with you that blocking highways is acceptable or legal. This is dangerous for many reasons, and threatens the safety of protesters, drivers, bystanders, those in need of urgent medical transportation, and more.

In my ideal city, protests are limited to prescribed areas, and when they turn destructive, violent, or otherwise unlawful, they will be shut down.

I didn't say they were legal. Obstruction of traffic is a misdemeanor here.

Which is more acceptable? A coordinated shutdown with law enforcement present, slowing then stopping traffic, and keeping the protesters and bystanders separated, allowing other first responders to know ahead of time the route will be blocked, and having an agreed upon end time vs guerilla protests? Because that's your options. Mass misdemeanor arrests means they can be back out blocking a road again tomorrow if they want to be. Especially out of towners. Nobody is going to extradite them back for a misdemeanor.

Yeah, it may suck. So does an overturned semi. Yet you deal with it.

I am not a fan of "1st amendment zones" absent a bonafide security reason. I think that cure is worse then the disease. I've dealt with protesters for over a decade, from NRA rallies to BLM, and many took the streets but only one became a riot or resulted in damage beyond littering.

What do you propose we do with those who decide to picket outside your area?

[BobM]

Of course we didn't investigate such scenes as feds, but I've come up on a few. The saddest thing for me was always the empty shoes, and the rag doll limpness of the bodies after the bones have been broken. Just one of those images that stays with you.

Empty shoe in the road and the imprint of the kids denim pants on the hood when we located the suspect vehicle. 1992.

[BehindBlueI's]

So, just organized trolling then, with no real long term goal. Which is counter to what the old Civil Rights protest, which were done with an actual goal in mind.

Well, that would depend on who's doing it. When "Right to Work" was an issue in my state, unions held a massive protest downtown. They took over the streets for awhile. They had a definite goal in mind, protection of their unions. When we started making announcements to clear the streets, they did. Thousands of people, zero arrests, zero property damage, zero injuries.

I have zero issues enforcing the law upon real rioters and left our response group largely because I don't believe our civilian leadership shared that goal, but that's not the same as peaceful protests that block a street *temporarily* and then comply with lawful orders to leave in order to get attention.

[paherne]

Yeah, First Amendment Zones are bullshit. I've done a number of candidate and Presidential visits. It always cracks me up when USSS brings out that stuff. Now, if we had 2nd Amendment Zones and cities/counties had to build shooting sports parks instead of softball fields, then I might get behind the idea of "Zones."

[Clusterfrack]

Thanks for the insights. I’m convinced.

[Joe in PNG]

The point of non-violent protest is often to gain sympathy from observers, usually by trying to do normal, everyday things forbidden by foolish laws.
Eating lunch, riding buses, swimming in pools- you want others to think "well, why can't they do that? It's not fair." Especially if you get nasty overreactions.

While blocking highways gets attention, does it get that kind of sympathetic attention to gain more widespread acceptance for one's goals? Or, is the population at large actually sympathizing more with the people stuck in traffic and would be super happy to see those damnfool protesters moved out of the way.

[JRB]

I didn't say they were legal. Obstruction of traffic is a misdemeanor here.

Which is more acceptable? A coordinated shutdown with law enforcement present, slowing then stopping traffic, and keeping the protesters and bystanders separated, allowing other first responders to know ahead of time the route will be blocked, and having an agreed upon end time vs guerilla protests? Because that's your options. Mass misdemeanor arrests means they can be back out blocking a road again tomorrow if they want to be. Especially out of towners. Nobody is going to extradite them back for a misdemeanor.

Yeah, it may suck. So does an overturned semi. Yet you deal with it.

I am not a fan of "1st amendment zones" absent a bonafide security reason. I think that cure is worse then the disease. I've dealt with protesters for over a decade, from NRA rallies to BLM, and many took the streets but only one became a riot or resulted in damage beyond littering.

What do you propose we do with those who decide to picket outside your area?

My beef with it intent. Protesting downtown, blocking some chunk of surface streets in a dense city, especially in front of significant gov't buildings and such. I get the 'where else can it happen?' argument there. One can 'drive around' those problems.

Once an interstate highway is involved we have a totally different dynamic. Traffic has to suddenly and unexpectedly slow from highway speeds to a complete stop (you and every other LEO here knows that lots of very nasty MVA's happen this way) and once stopped, they are stranded for the duration against their will. Sure, cars get in wrecks and semis jackknife but there's almost never an *intent* to screw up highway traffic and those problems get cleared as fast as they can. Same for traffic, it's a fact of life.

But to *intentionally* stop traffic from high speeds, and strand motorists in their vehicles for some pre-determined 'okay' period of time to 'arrest' them when needed so they can get their trolling rocks off *WITH THE LOCAL PD'S COOPERATION* is 100% pure bullshit.

If they block a highway, personally I have zero problem with seeing those 'protesters' turned into semi-truck road pizza or blasted out of there via water cannon each and every time. Free speech is free speech, but creating a dangerous traffic stop in the middle of a highway to trap people against their will and be potentially victimized in their vehicle isn't speech, it's fucking violence. Passive chickenshit police-have-to-save-us-even-though-we-hate-them violence, but violence nonetheless.

No lie, I laughed when I saw those two pedestrians go flying in this video. To hell with them and their ilk. If they want my sympathy for their cause they can persuade and compel me with reason like a rational human being - becoming a meat shield of righteous trolling and passive violence posing as an 'inconvenience' for a 'protest' only makes me care less and less for them, their well-being, or their 'cause'.

[BehindBlueI's]

My beef with it intent. Protesting downtown, blocking some chunk of surface streets in a dense city, especially in front of significant gov't buildings and such. I get the 'where else can it happen?' argument there. One can 'drive around' those problems.

Once an interstate highway is involved we have a totally different dynamic. Traffic has to suddenly and unexpectedly slow from highway speeds to a complete stop (you and every other LEO here knows that lots of very nasty MVA's happen this way) and once stopped, they are stranded for the duration against their will. Sure, cars get in wrecks and semis jackknife but there's almost never an *intent* to screw up highway traffic and those problems get cleared as fast as they can. Same for traffic, it's a fact of life.

But to *intentionally* stop traffic from high speeds, and strand motorists in their vehicles for some pre-determined 'okay' period of time to 'arrest' them when needed so they can get their trolling rocks off *WITH THE LOCAL PD'S COOPERATION* is 100% pure bullshit.

If they block a highway, personally I have zero problem with seeing those 'protesters' turned into semi-truck road pizza or blasted out of there via water cannon each and every time. Free speech is free speech, but creating a dangerous traffic stop in the middle of a highway to trap people against their will because you're fucking annoyed isn't speech, fucking violence. Passive chickenshit police-have-to-save-us-even-though-we-hate-them violence, but violence nonetheless.

No lie, I laughed when I saw those two pedestrians go flying in this video. To hell with them and their ilk. If they want my sympathy for their cause they can persuade and compel me with reason like a rational human being - becoming a meat shield of righteous trolling and passive violence posing as an 'inconvenience' for a 'protest' only makes me care less and less for them, their well-being, or their 'cause'.

We've never done it on an interstate, but there's methods of safely slowing and stopping traffic on the interstate. That's how you get ladders and shit out of the road. Ever see a cop slowing weaving with his lights on? There's some other cop (or DoT worker) up ahead getting a sofa or ladder or some shit out of the road.

People get smoked in the road all the time and it's generally not criminal on either side. It's sumdood playing Frogger and sumdood with his head in his phone or whatever. Just like any fatal crash, unless someone is drunk usually the highest level crime is a citation, which is civil in my state. Intentionally hitting someone for obstructing traffic is using lethal force for a misdemeanor. Work to change the law if you feel like that's what should be acceptable, but as I've said in other places ignoring what is in favor of what you wish it was is at your peril.

[BehindBlueI's]

The point of non-violent protest is often to gain sympathy from observers, usually by trying to do normal, everyday things forbidden by foolish laws.
Eating lunch, riding buses, swimming in pools- you want others to think "well, why can't they do that? It's not fair." Especially if you get nasty overreactions.

While blocking highways gets attention, does it get that kind of sympathetic attention to gain more widespread acceptance for one's goals? Or, is the population at large actually sympathizing more with the people stuck in traffic and would be super happy to see those damnfool protesters moved out of the way.

I think they buy into the notion "there's no such thing as bad publicity".

Personally, I think it makes people hate the cause even if they were neutral before. The counter-argument is it "forces" the media to cover something they ordinarily wouldn't. That's likely outdated. What it does do is get social media hits, which gets it in front of people who may decide they are like-minded and want to join you. Again, just a guess based on what I've seen from bystanders, that's a small gain for all the ill will you generate. I think it's mostly just self-congratulating at this point. Look what we did! We'll keep being a minor aggravation until we get what we want and that makes us someone making a difference!

I've seen some protests that in other circumstances would have almost certainly gathered public support turn into "fuck those guys" for that sort of thing. Would you be against a bunch of people in wheelchairs demanding better access to public areas, better treatment from Medicare offices, etc? I think most people would find them sympathetic. I've seen them piss away a lot of goodwill as onlookers went from "those poor people..." to "get them the fuck out of here!" in the span of a few minutes.

[FNFAN]

How about using this?


18 U.S. Code § 241.Conspiracy against rights

If two or more persons conspire to injure, oppress, threaten, or intimidate any person in any State, Territory, Commonwealth, Possession, or District in the free exercise or enjoyment of any right or privilege secured to him by the Constitution or laws of the United States, or because of his having so exercised the same; or

If two or more persons go in disguise on the highway, or on the premises of another, with intent to prevent or hinder his free exercise or enjoyment of any right or privilege so secured—

They shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both; and if death results from the acts committed in violation of this section or if such acts include kidnapping or an attempt to kidnap, aggravated sexual abuse or an attempt to commit aggravated sexual abuse, or an attempt to kill, they shall be fined under this title or imprisoned for any term of years or for life, or both, or may be sentenced to death.

[JRB]

We've never done it on an interstate, but there's methods of safely slowing and stopping traffic on the interstate. That's how you get ladders and shit out of the road. Ever see a cop slowing weaving with his lights on? There's some other cop (or DoT worker) up ahead getting a sofa or ladder or some shit out of the road.

People get smoked in the road all the time and it's generally not criminal on either side. It's sumdood playing Frogger and sumdood with his head in his phone or whatever. Just like any fatal crash, unless someone is drunk usually the highest level crime is a citation, which is civil in my state. Intentionally hitting someone for obstructing traffic is using lethal force for a misdemeanor. Work to change the law if you feel like that's what should be acceptable, but as I've said in other places ignoring what is in favor of what you wish it was is at your peril.

LE having methods of mitigating the risk in such a situation because of unintentional accidents is beside the point.

Just because those methods exist doesn't excuse the fact that the *intent* of these people is to purposely create a dangerous situation for.. what? To piss off a bunch of people and get those cameras rolling?

That is what I find so unacceptable, and why I personally believe as a taxpayer interested in the rule of law and the social contract that these whiny brats should be hosed off with water cannons the second they step into a highway. The fact that these antics continued so long unabated because of chickenshit city leadership is precisely why I stopped caring about the well-being of these 'protestors'.

I'll remember when I get to the voting booth.

[El Cid]

The whole point of a protest is to get eyeballs, and blocking a major roadway gets media attention and that greatly expands how many eyeballs see it.

I've mentioned on here before that we, as a department, have a pretty good relationship with most of our protesters. Most of the arrests are staged. We know ahead of time who's going to remain in the street after being told to leave. They get "arrested" and get their picture in the media. We get cooperation in knowing when and where and for how long so we can safely shut down traffic.

I disagree that simply blocking traffic makes an otherwise peaceful protest into a riot. Threatening occupants of vehicles, etc. then yes. A sit-in in an intersection is just regular hippy shit. Interstates just require more hippies.

This seems like a terrible idea to me. And it feeds the entitlement of people blocking traffic. They should get arrested not fake arrested.

Anytime I see “protesters” of any political group blocking traffic I immediately dismiss their message and will vote against it every time. They are creating unsafe situations and then when hit claim victim status. We should be rounding them up and charging them. Playing along may get intel for future events but now they believe that have a right to block roadways.

This tolerance also sets up really bad scenarios where drivers get irritated or scared and then people lose life or limb because LE allowed them to stage in roadways.

[RJ]

Yeah I dunno what to make of this. Just saw the short video clip of 8 seconds of white Jag zooming past the van, swerving left, collecting the two pedestrians, and taking off. I am not sure, but from the video, was the Jag driving on the wrong side of the road? Or is that some kind of Twitter magic reversal going on? Road location of the incident is described as I-5 South, right? You guys that do this for a living, what would you say was the approach speed of the car? 50+? Obviously, I hope and pray those involved are ok (or at least as ok as can be, being flipped like pancake on pavement for several hundred feet. Sheesh.

On the other hand, my mom always told me, "don't play in the street", a rule which I've followed ever since. Looks like a whole set of awkward circumstances that led to a negative outcome. Those folks maybe got their priorities wrong; they didn't seem to have a plan dealing with a car speeding at them at highway speeds without evident plans to hit the brakes. And it didn't seem like any were wearing high-vis safety vests. Or had flashing lights or flares out. Dude in the car clearly had a WTF moment as he got to the van and had eyesight on the group of people at right, he braked and turned slightly left (or so I would guess; a panic stop at speed activating ABS would not turn that much, I would guess. But who knows; I'm no car brake expert.)

Not sure what preceded this event for the driver, or quite what was in his mind at the time. Either way, approaching a white van athwart my path, with today's headlights, at highway speeds, any normal person would at least ease up on the gas. I don't see (absent drugs, alcohol, or stupidity) why you'd maintain speed, and just jink right. Seems like he was trying to get away from something.

[andre3k]

I can't get with blocking roadways or interstates for a protest. During the Floyd protests here we had enough manpower to assign a mobile field force (40 - 50 officers) to march with each group. If it looked like they were attempting to take a freeway we simply had units ahead block the route with patrol cars or public works dump trucks, so they had no easy access to the freeway. If they wanted to go off road and try to circumvent the vehicles the field force was there to form a skirmish line and prevent it.

It worked out really well. They could conduct their march and protest all they wanted as long as they didn't shut down a freeway. No freeways were ever taken here.

The agitators hated when we marched with them because it really didn't give them an opportunity to formulate a plan to do something stupid. So they simply tried to smoke the hell out of us and go on these 10 mile marches while we are wearing full riot gear.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

[EPF]

I’m just getting fed up with all this shit. I care less and less about parsing the details of each event as the events mount and become a flood.

BBI’s reasonable explanation may have swayed me a month ago but since the volume has turned up to eleven I’m having the natural response of F@CK these people.

We can argue each and every detail of the couple in St. Louis, the highway today, or the dozens of other things like them. The details matter less to me each time. It’s quickly becoming noise. I understand that’s not logical or particularly helpful but here we are. I can’t imagine I’m the only one feeling this way. Who knows maybe that is their goal.

They may think they want to piss off normal law abiding people to the breaking point, but I suspect their reaction to the inevitable blow back will be just as cowardly and weak as we have seen so far. Personally, I no longer give a damn about them. Stand in the highway, topple statues, burn a tobacco store, or intimidate people in their homes, live with the consequences of your actions.

[RJ]

I think it's mostly just self-congratulating at this point. Look what we did! We'll keep being a minor aggravation until we get what we want and that makes us someone making a difference!



Just a guess, but I would say this drives 99% of the posts people make, based on watching the various "protest" hashtag sites on Twitter (I don't have a Twitter account, but find it's useful for intel.)

[Arbninftry]

https://www.foxnews.com/us/2-women-hit-by-car-on-seattle-highway-closed-amid-protests

I really only posted this to quote this piece of journalistic excellence:



No shit? Thanks, Fox. I would be left wondering if they were still floating in the air if not for Fox taking the time to inform me gravity is still a thing.

I wonder how they got hurt, the flying through the air, or the sudden stop on the ground🙃

[awp_101]

I think they buy into the notion "there's no such thing as bad publicity".

Personally, I think it makes people hate the cause even if they were neutral before.
It's the open carry of protesting...

[BehindBlueI's]

This seems like a terrible idea to me. And it feeds the entitlement of people blocking traffic. They should get arrested not fake arrested.

Anytime I see “protesters” of any political group blocking traffic I immediately dismiss their message and will vote against it every time. They are creating unsafe situations and then when hit claim victim status. We should be rounding them up and charging them. Playing along may get intel for future events but now they believe that have a right to block roadways.

This tolerance also sets up really bad scenarios where drivers get irritated or scared and then people lose life or limb because LE allowed them to stage in roadways.

It's worked for us for a *long* time. We treat it the same way we would a request to shut down a street for a block party or farmer's market, which we also do. There's no danger when it's coordinated. It has *prevented* the very thing everyone is against because we don't have much in the way of pop-up protests that create those dangerous situations. Nobody has taken over an interstate here. Nobody has been struck by a car. Nobody has been run over. In the vast majority there's never any traffic to interact with the protest. We shut down the street before they "take it" and open it up once the dog and pony show is over. Even when we did have riots it was pretty minimal compared to other cities remotely our size and when the out of town shitbirds left things returned to normal.

I would say it's worked better then mass arrests, which just lead to more pop up protests because what jail has the capacity to book and hold a couple hundred protesters. What prosecutor wants to file on them? What judge wants a couple hundred new cases on his docket? Yes, we *can* arrest them, and we have done mass arrests on occasion (including the wheelchair one, when they wouldn't leave private property) but it's not a long term problem solver because what happens after the arrest is largely nothing.

[El Cid]

It's worked for us for a *long* time. We treat it the same way we would a request to shut down a street for a block party or farmer's market, which we also do. There's no danger when it's coordinated. It has *prevented* the very thing everyone is against because we don't have much in the way of pop-up protests that create those dangerous situations. Nobody has taken over an interstate here. Nobody has been struck by a car. Nobody has been run over. In the vast majority there's never any traffic to interact with the protest. We shut down the street before they "take it" and open it up once the dog and pony show is over. Even when we did have riots it was pretty minimal compared to other cities remotely our size and when the out of town shitbirds left things returned to normal.

I would say it's worked better then mass arrests, which just lead to more pop up protests because what jail has the capacity to book and hold a couple hundred protesters. What prosecutor wants to file on them? What judge wants a couple hundred new cases on his docket? Yes, we *can* arrest them, and we have done mass arrests on occasion (including the wheelchair one, when they wouldn't leave private property) but it's not a long term problem solver because what happens after the arrest is largely nothing.

It’s cutting edge for sure. I hope it continues to be successful.

[BehindBlueI's]

It’s cutting edge for sure. I hope it continues to be successful.

Honestly, I don't know that it will because of the culture shift but I hope we continue to do it with groups that will let us as a carrot, though I wish our elected officials would let us have more "stick" for those that don't. Culturally, protesters who believe we're the enemy and are protesting against *us* are much less likely to coordinate with us for the obvious reasons. We can't "community police" or "enforce the laws with them, not at them" if they aren't willing to coordinate with us. Obviously the out of town accelerationists aren't going to play by the local rules.

Also, the leadership that has made that a real possibility and success may not always be available. Not just anyone (and that definitely includes me) has the set of traits that can make this sort of thing run well. If they quit the group, or just retire, those personal relationships built by them may go with them. I firmly believe those relationships have made a big difference and have kept "community organizers" from becoming "community agitators" because they know they actually have a seat at the table and some say.

I will add that the first time I was told we were approaching an issue like this I was not a fan, to put it mildly. I had many of the same objections people in this thread have raised. It got to the point though were I had to either deny the reality I was seeing or admit that I was wrong and this actually worked. People were exercising their 1st amendment rights, nobody was getting hurt, nothing was being damaged, and we all knew what time we were getting off.

[andre3k]

It's worked for us for a *long* time. We treat it the same way we would a request to shut down a street for a block party or farmer's market, which we also do. There's no danger when it's coordinated. It has *prevented* the very thing everyone is against because we don't have much in the way of pop-up protests that create those dangerous situations. Nobody has taken over an interstate here. Nobody has been struck by a car. Nobody has been run over. In the vast majority there's never any traffic to interact with the protest. We shut down the street before they "take it" and open it up once the dog and pony show is over. Even when we did have riots it was pretty minimal compared to other cities remotely our size and when the out of town shitbirds left things returned to normal.

I would say it's worked better then mass arrests, which just lead to more pop up protests because what jail has the capacity to book and hold a couple hundred protesters. What prosecutor wants to file on them? What judge wants a couple hundred new cases on his docket? Yes, we *can* arrest them, and we have done mass arrests on occasion (including the wheelchair one, when they wouldn't leave private property) but it's not a long term problem solver because what happens after the arrest is largely nothing.That sounds pretty much the same as what we do, except with a few differences. We surround the protest on three sides (sides and rear) and have units up front to block intersections and traffic as the protest goes to their destination. It's essentially a walking escort for them and keeps traffic away for the protesters. However, we will do mass arrests if needed.

In the past the charges were always prosecuted, but we have a Democrat DA now that hates cops and dropped all of the charges. The crazy part is that we had multiple assistant DA's on scene during the mass arrests to authorize the charges. It didn't make a difference as its an election year and the head DA needed to send a message to her voters.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

[BehindBlueI's]

How about using this?


18 U.S. Code § 241.Conspiracy against rights

If two or more persons conspire to injure, oppress, threaten, or intimidate any person in any State, Territory, Commonwealth, Possession, or District in the free exercise or enjoyment of any right or privilege secured to him by the Constitution or laws of the United States, or because of his having so exercised the same; or

If two or more persons go in disguise on the highway, or on the premises of another, with intent to prevent or hinder his free exercise or enjoyment of any right or privilege so secured—

They shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both; and if death results from the acts committed in violation of this section or if such acts include kidnapping or an attempt to kidnap, aggravated sexual abuse or an attempt to commit aggravated sexual abuse, or an attempt to kill, they shall be fined under this title or imprisoned for any term of years or for life, or both, or may be sentenced to death.

Seems like it would fit, but federal code is outside my wheelhouse (with limited exception) so I'll defer to those with a better understanding of how it's been historically applied.

[Borderland]

I've always thought that closing a freeway in Seattle and letting people protest there was beyond stupid. The reason is we don't have the capacity to move traffic thru Seattle anyway and closing a freeway just adds to the already unimaginable grid lock. It's bad enough to close it down for accidents which are frequent.

I'm not sure how that person got on the freeway but it should have never been closed to begin with. If protesters want to dodge 60 mph traffic then they should put on their best pair of running shoes and have a go at it. They could flash the warning on those programmable overhead signs. "CAUTION, PROTESTERS ON FREEWAY so you have some warning.

https://i.ibb.co/jz10vys/protestor.jpg (https://imgbb.com/)

[Erick Gelhaus]

Never expected I would end up doing one for the feds a few years later on a highway in the middle of a war zone.:cool:


:cool:

Nope, no accident investigations. I do share somewhat similar memories.

[FNFAN]

Seems like it would fit, but federal code is outside my wheelhouse (with limited exception) so I'll defer to those with a better understanding of how it's been historically applied.

Apparently the KKK used the same tactics of shutting down highways while "going in disguise" on the highway and this is the resulting legislation. I just came upon it today.

[Duces Tecum]

In my ideal city, protests are limited to prescribed areas . . .

Like beyond city limits, perhaps?

[Clusterfrack]

Like beyond city limits, perhaps?

Yeah, I realize protests are a necessary annoyance. I’m just fed up with all the disruption and destruction. Somehow there should be a constitutional way to keep this from happening but maybe there isn’t.

[Stephanie B]

What is truly BS is calling the people on the roadways who are struck by the vehicles "victims", and the innocent motorists "suspects".

That shit is absolutely ass backwards.

Might want to temper that a little bit:
A driver struck two people with his car in Seattle early Saturday after driving onto a freeway that was closed because of protests against police brutality.

Video of the incident, which occurred at about 1:36 a.m. in the southbound lanes of I-5, shows the car speeding down the freeway and then plowing into the group of protesters, launching the two individuals into the air.
...
The driver, who continued driving down the freeway after the collision, has been arrested and booked at King County Jail.
...
State patrol said in a statement that this was the 19th consecutive night that protesters had marched onto the freeway amid global unrest over the killings of Black people at the hands of police. The agency had closed that part of the freeway as a result of the protest prior to the hit and run.

Officials believe the driver entered the freeway via an exit ramp and that it didn't appear that impairment was a factor.

Officials are still investigating how the driver got through the closure and a possible motive for the collision. (https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/skbaer/seattle-protesters-struck-hit-and-run-driver)

The driver, who apparently wasn't intoxicated, drove onto a closed highway, through some kind of barrier blocking access (https://www.usnews.com/news/us/articles/2020-07-04/2-women-hit-by-car-on-seattle-highway-closed-amid-protests) to the highway, drove the wrong way down it, ran over two people and then kept on going.

I respectfully submit that your sympathies are misplaced.

[AKDoug]

Always check the trees. Been there, done that. Two naked guys twenty feet up in the alder trees, a rolled Bronco and 20 to 30 children's books scattered over the highway. Spent several hours looking for kids before the Troopers contacted the wife of one of the deceased and found out the kids were home safe. Had to have been an extra sucky call for that Trooper, but we were pretty relieved. Ended up having to make a judgement call that the dudes were dead and cut them down with a chainsaw. We had no ladder trucks available anywhere. Both were ejected from a vehicle that they probably would have survived in if they had been wearing seat belts. Alcohol was involved, and we never found out where their clothes went.

[Borderland]

Freeways are for vehicular traffic. The public has a right to use it for it's intended purpose. People pay federal and state taxes to use those. Plenty of places to protest without shutting down interstate commerce.

How long do you think a protest that shut down LAX would last? My guess about as long as it took airport security and city police to find the protesters and collect them.

I just can't find any sympathy for anyone who thinks it's OK to protest on a freeway. Not a place for pedestrians for any reason. That's why they don't have crosswalks on freeways.

Sorry for the rant but I worked for 30 years improving the transportation system. Now this. It isn't OK. I'm getting real sick of this shit.

[Lost River]

Might want to temper that a little bit:

The driver, who apparently wasn't intoxicated, drove onto a closed highway, through some kind of barrier blocking access (https://www.usnews.com/news/us/articles/2020-07-04/2-women-hit-by-car-on-seattle-highway-closed-amid-protests) to the highway, drove the wrong way down it, ran over two people and then kept on going.

I respectfully submit that your sympathies are misplaced.

Geez,

Leave it to an attorney not to tell the whole truth..

My post in its entirety was this:


"What is truly BS is calling the people on the roadways who are struck by the vehicles "victims", and the innocent motorists "suspects".

That shit is absolutely ass backwards.

The people made a purposeful decision to place themselves on the roadway, breaking the law.

That does not make them a victim,

unless it is of their own stupidity.

The motorist was simply driving to or from wherever, minding their own business, and are the victims of the lawbreakers.


There are always going to be select circumstances that may differ, but that seems to be a common theme.

This shit is getting real old, real fast."


When you intentionally leave out part of my post,the part that I put in bold, it changes the message considerably.... :rolleyes:

Poor form.

[HCM]

Seems like it would fit, but federal code is outside my wheelhouse (with limited exception) so I'll defer to those with a better understanding of how it's been historically applied.

Civil Rights statues are broadly written and therefore used judiciously. They must be approved by by the main Justice Dept. I.e. above the local U.S. Attorney.

[HCM]

I think they buy into the notion "there's no such thing as bad publicity".

Personally, I think it makes people hate the cause even if they were neutral before. The counter-argument is it "forces" the media to cover something they ordinarily wouldn't. That's likely outdated. What it does do is get social media hits, which gets it in front of people who may decide they are like-minded and want to join you. Again, just a guess based on what I've seen from bystanders, that's a small gain for all the ill will you generate. I think it's mostly just self-congratulating at this point. Look what we did! We'll keep being a minor aggravation until we get what we want and that makes us someone making a difference!

I've seen some protests that in other circumstances would have almost certainly gathered public support turn into "fuck those guys" for that sort of thing. Would you be against a bunch of people in wheelchairs demanding better access to public areas, better treatment from Medicare offices, etc? I think most people would find them sympathetic. I've seen them piss away a lot of goodwill as onlookers went from "those poor people..." to "get them the fuck out of here!" in the span of a few minutes.

There is research supporting the assertion that extreme actions makes even people who are sympathetic with a cause begin to see that cause in a negative light. I've posted it here in other threads.

[FNFAN]

Might want to temper that a little bit:

The driver, who apparently wasn't intoxicated, drove onto a closed highway, through some kind of barrier blocking access (https://www.usnews.com/news/us/articles/2020-07-04/2-women-hit-by-car-on-seattle-highway-closed-amid-protests) to the highway, drove the wrong way down it, ran over two people and then kept on going.

I respectfully submit that your sympathies are misplaced.

Criminal conduct is, well, criminal. Whether it's a bozo driving past barricades onto a closed highway and striking people or a bozo officer kneeling on someones neck for 8 minutes. I think what he was speaking of is closing down active, in-use roadways.

[BehindBlueI's]

There is research supporting the assertion that extreme actions makes even people who are sympathetic with a cause begin to see that cause in a negative light. I've posted it here in other threads.

I believe it and have likely been the person having their mind changed by the asshole behavior. I was recently the listening party in a conversation that included "he was probably right but he was such an asshole I didn't want to see him win."

[Borderland]

Criminal conduct is, well, criminal. Whether it's a bozo driving past barricades onto a closed highway and striking people or a bozo officer kneeling on someones neck for 8 minutes. I think what he was speaking of is closing down active, in-use roadways.

That falls on the agency that closed the freeway. Basically they're saying it's OK if you want to camp out on the freeway. We'll close it for you and deny the public's use of that for however long you wish to use it. What's next, the city administration building. Use it as long as you wish and we'll just postpone the public's business until you decide when it's appropriate to reopen it.

If people want to die standing around on freeways protesting then they should have that right but I'm not seeing how their safety should be protected at the expense of the public who has every right to use that corridor as it was intended by design.

[FNFAN]

That falls on the agency that closed the freeway. Basically they're saying it's OK if you want to camp out on the freeway. We'll close it for you and deny the public's use of that for however long you wish to use it. What's next, the city administration building. Use it as long as you wish and we'll just postpone the public's business until you decide when it's appropriate to reopen it.

If people want to die standing around on freeways protesting then they should have that right but I'm not seeing how that should be promoted and facilitated by some local LE agency.

I disagree with it also. But anyone deciding they're going to drive around or through barricades -that's a whole 'nother level of stupid. I don't know what the process was in deciding to close the roadway. It appears BBI's agency has come up with a workable process to avoid closing roadways.

[Borderland]

I disagree with it also. But anyone deciding they're going to drive around or through barricades -that's a whole 'nother level of stupid. I don't know what the process was in deciding to close the roadway. It appears BBI's agency has come up with a workable process.

How about they decide to use city hall for a protest? I guess that would OK also. I don't know, just asking a question.

[BehindBlueI's]

I disagree with it also. But anyone deciding they're going to drive around or through barricades -that's a whole 'nother level of stupid. I don't know what the process was in deciding to close the roadway. It appears BBI's agency has come up with a workable process to avoid closing roadways.

To clarify, we do close roadways, but only for a set time frame. There's no "as long as you want" and I don't think we'd agree to do an interstate for several reasons. Not least of which is it would be state's problem.

[Spartan1980]

No shit? Thanks, Fox. I would be left wondering if they were still floating in the air if not for Fox taking the time to inform me gravity is still a thing.

They got some serious air. Maybe they thought they might land on the moon?

[TAZ]

What’s that whole thing about doing stupid stuff, at stupid times, with stupid people thing?????

Idiots walking around a freeway at night is asking for trouble, so my give a fuck meter is low. I’d have some level of sympathy if they were dealing with a disabled car and had to walk down a dark freeway for help. Or if they were kids who didn’t know any better. But what you have here are multiple grown ass adults whose cumulative brain power is less than a rock.

Same goes for some playboy deciding to go racing on apparently the wrong side of a freeway to see how fast his car can go.

Actions have consequences. Stupid actions have harsh consequences sometimes.

Hope the lawyer’s find a way to sue the city into oblivion. They created this safe zone which they failed to adequately secure.

This story is going to disappear faster than Superman chasing a speeding bullet. Fits no current PC narrative.

[Sanch]

If a group of people surround a vehicle on a public road, preventing that vehicle from driving away, how is that any different from felony kidnapping, keeping someone in a location against their will? Which lethal force would be justified to use.

From my standpoint, these violent mobs are surrounding cars, and in the blink of an eye, one of them could start smashing you car glass, reach in and stab you or shoot you through the windows.

Considering the lethal force triad, they have ability to do grave bodily harm to you by sheer disparity of number even if fully unarmed or by carrying any kind of blunt object (which at least some seem to have), they have opportunity to drag you out, and you are in jeopardy because the implication is: you will sit there against your will until our message is heard and we arbitrarily decide to let you leave, and if you try to drive through us we will attack your vehicle and try to drag you out and beat you possibly to death, which we’ve seen several times in recent weeks when drivers tried to get away.

Let’s add another layer. What if you’re a diabetic and can’t sit in your car for potentially hours until they decide to un-kidnap you? Do you have to wait until you’re in the midst of a diabetic crisis to use lethal force? In the case of a regular assault, one is under no obligation for the grave bodily harm to be received before responding.

Further, if as a CCW holder, you hold someone at gunpoint To effect a citizens arrest, you will likely be charged with felony kidnapping for preventing someone from leaving by threat of lethal force if they leave.

I struggle to see how lethal force is not justified in this scenario with rioters surrounding your car, demanding you remains in place indefinitely, and threaten to kill you if you try to leave.

Given there’s no legitimate reason to surround someone’s car and force them to remind in one spot against their will, I don’t see the harm to society or harm to constitutional freedoms in allowing drivers to use lethal force. No where in the constitution do people have the right to kidnap another, and no public good is served by allowing this to happen. Further, it would be a problem that’s corrected rapidly if states gave the green light to use lethal force in these scenarios. Several people would die, and it would end.

What if we take the car out of the scenario and 50 people surrounded you on the sidewalk of a public place. And said fuck you, you’re not going anywhere and if you try to leave they start hitting you. Would a glock 18 with 33rd mag not be ethically and legally justified?

Finally, the police are allowing this happen. If PD saw the rioters surrounding a car on the road and used less lethal against them and effected arrests, then I could see an argument to sitting in your car waiting for them to come. But they aren’t because liberal mayors appoint liberal police chiefs.

I argue, allow lethal force to be used unless PD does their job to un-kidnap you from these scenarios.

[0ddl0t]

I didn't say they were legal. Obstruction of traffic is a misdemeanor here.



How about using this?


18 U.S. Code § 241.Conspiracy against rights

If two or more persons conspire to injure, oppress, threaten, or intimidate any person in any State, Territory, Commonwealth, Possession, or District in the free exercise or enjoyment of any right or privilege secured to him by the Constitution or laws of the United States, or because of his having so exercised the same; or

If two or more persons go in disguise on the highway, or on the premises of another, with intent to prevent or hinder his free exercise or enjoyment of any right or privilege so secured—

They shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both; and if death results from the acts committed in violation of this section or if such acts include kidnapping or an attempt to kidnap, aggravated sexual abuse or an attempt to commit aggravated sexual abuse, or an attempt to kill, they shall be fined under this title or imprisoned for any term of years or for life, or both, or may be sentenced to death.


Depending on the circumstances of the riot, I might add:


18 U.S. Code § 1951.Interference with commerce by threats or violence

a)Whoever in any way or degree obstructs, delays, or affects commerce or the movement of any article or commodity in commerce, by robbery or extortion or attempts or conspires so to do, or commits or threatens physical violence to any person or property in furtherance of a plan or purpose to do anything in violation of this section shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both.

In this section the term “extortion” is defined as "the obtaining of property from another, with his consent, induced by wrongful use of actual or threatened force, violence, or fear, or under color of official right" so I could construe as extortion a rowdy protest (riot) where activists intimidate and delay interstate truck drivers to demand reparations for slavery...

[Stephanie B]

Criminal conduct is, well, criminal. Whether it's a bozo driving past barricades onto a closed highway and striking people or a bozo officer kneeling on someones neck for 8 minutes. I think what he was speaking of is closing down active, in-use roadways.

Then I'll agree with that. Closing down roadways, even with well-announced plans, is rarely a good thing. I can understand things such as replacing bridges and such, but when done for political reasons, it just pisses people off.

[Hambo]

https://i.imgur.com/3W7HIXj.jpg


Lost River: So I was driving along in my Humvee, when all of a sudden this camel comes outta nowhere...
Iraqi cop: (Thinking) Fucking infidel drivers.

[RJ]

This story is going to disappear faster than Superman chasing a speeding bullet. Fits no current PC narrative.

You'd be surprised.

From the hashtag feed last night, it seems the Driver was Eritrian (a person of color.) The two young ladies where white.

There is a serious discussion that ensued about how "racism can be devoid of color" to rationalize the event to fit the narrative.

I am not making this up.

It's like an entire segment of the country all of a sudden has the critical thinking capacity of a turnip.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

Do the aps like Waze, report such closures in real time? I'd certainly check before getting on the roads in cities with such going on.

[BJXDS]

Do the aps like Waze, report such closures in real time? I'd certainly check before getting on the roads in cities with such going on.

Waze is very useful, I primarily use it now. The users report incidents, and in the areas I have used it, it has been accurate.

[Borderland]

Expect delays.:(

[Greg]

56917

Splat Thump Thump

[Lost River]

Lost River: So I was driving along in my Humvee, when all of a sudden this camel comes outta nowhere...
Iraqi cop: (Thinking) Fucking infidel drivers.

Hambo


Grin! Those things are HUGE! I can imagine the mess that was.

How bad was it? Having to put one down I can imagine would result in quite a bit of paperwork for people.

[BehindBlueI's]

Hambo


Grin! Those things are HUGE! I can imagine the mess that was.

How bad was it? Having to put one down I can imagine would result in quite a bit of paperwork for people.

I've seen the remnants of a Mustang convertible that took a camel out at the knees. Turns out the camel is tall enough it falls into the passenger compartment. Fatally, in that case. I might have pictures on my old computer.

[CleverNickname]

I've seen the remnants of a Mustang convertible that took a camel out at the knees. Turns out the camel is tall enough it falls into the passenger compartment. Fatally, in that case. I might have pictures on my old computer.

I've read that the same thing happens with moose.

[blues]

I've read that the same thing happens with moose.

I've seen it in WY.

[Lost River]

I've seen the remnants of a Mustang convertible that took a camel out at the knees. Turns out the camel is tall enough it falls into the passenger compartment. Fatally, in that case. I might have pictures on my old computer.



Speaking of camels, many years ago, this non sanitized pic ended up being in the ESS sunglasses calendar for February or Valentines day promo (I can't remember now, it has been way too long). "Caught in the Camel's clutch" or something like that. A friend was co-owner of the company and I had sent him the pic of the overly friendly beast. :cool:

https://i.imgur.com/4D4WggA.jpg

[farscott]

Do the aps like Waze, report such closures in real time? I'd certainly check before getting on the roads in cities with such going on.

Yes, as the app uses crowd-sourced data. More importantly, Waze will change the routing on the fly when you do not follow the provided instructions. I use this feature frequently when I decide that my eyes do not like the route Waze is promoting. Waze promotes the fastest route, not necessarily the safest route. I once had to leave I-65 in Nashville due to a bad wreck closing the interstate just north of the Capitol and Waze wanted to route me through a not-nice area. I ignored the instructions and detoured to the east, eventually ending up in a better to my eyes area, then followed the app, and headed north back to I-65.

[Lost River]

I've read that the same thing happens with moose.


Yeah, elk and moose are brutal when it comes to vehicle collisions.

[Clusterfrack]

Speaking of camels, many years ago, this non sanitized pic ended up being in the ESS sunglasses calendar for February or Valentines day promo (I can't remember now, it has been way too long). "Caught in the Camel's clutch" or something like that. A friend was co-owner of the company and I had sent him the pic of the overly friendly beast. :cool:

https://i.imgur.com/4D4WggA.jpg

Fuck camels. They are evil creatures. The only things I like about them are the sound it makes when you hit one with a softball size rock, and the way they taste.


56920

56921

[BehindBlueI's]

Speaking of camels, many years ago, this non sanitized pic ended up being in the ESS sunglasses calendar for February or Valentines day promo (I can't remember now, it has been way too long). "Caught in the Camel's clutch" or something like that. A friend was co-owner of the company and I had sent him the pic of the overly friendly beast. :cool:

https://i.imgur.com/4D4WggA.jpg

Dear journal:

Day 251 in country. Have ceased resisting the camel's advances.

[Lost River]

I read elsewhere that one of the rioter/protesters blocking the road that was struck by the car had died.

Honestly, I don't feel the least bit sorry for them.

The same thing that I tell my kids comes to mind.

You are free to do as you wish, but you are not free of the consequences of your actions.

[ranger]

Yes, as the app uses crowd-sourced data. More importantly, Waze will change the routing on the fly when you do not follow the provided instructions. I use this feature frequently when I decide that my eyes do not like the route Waze is promoting. Waze promotes the fastest route, not necessarily the safest route. I once had to leave I-65 in Nashville due to a bad wreck closing the interstate just north of the Capitol and Waze wanted to route me through a not-nice area. I ignored the instructions and detoured to the east, eventually ending up in a better to my eyes area, then followed the app, and headed north back to I-65.

This. WAZE is super popular in Atlanta but you must be situationally aware when you get rerouted off major routes. I have been watching for traffic backups and police icons on the WAZE screen as a “clue”.

[ranger]

I made casualty payments in Iraq, Camels were worth more than local children. Think about that.

[Clusterfrack]

This. WAZE is super popular in Atlanta but you must be situationally aware when you get rerouted off major routes. I have been watching for traffic backups and police icons on the WAZE screen as a “clue”.

After getting routed through east Oakland, and through Felony Flats here in Portland, I deleted Waze.

[TAZ]

You'd be surprised.

From the hashtag feed last night, it seems the Driver was Eritrian (a person of color.) The two young ladies where white.

There is a serious discussion that ensued about how "racism can be devoid of color" to rationalize the event to fit the narrative.

I am not making this up.

It's like an entire segment of the country all of a sudden has the critical thinking capacity of a turnip.

I'm confused. I thought all lives matter was white supremacy at its peak. People need to make up their damned minds...

[Glenn E. Meyer]

I've always looked at printed maps before starting out as I found that on the fly entry into navigation systems will take you on convoluted weird roads to save time. I see on the real map, major road X to major road Y. The system does some Pythagorean trip through Deliverance Drive and Satan Street.

I found Google Maps resistant to letting you drag the route to the path you want. It starts to draw spaghetti routes.

[blues]

After getting routed through east Oakland, and through Felony Flats here in Portland, I deleted Waze.

That was the biggest drawback I've read about that app.

I know that there are "crime and place" apps out there that some folks use. I don't use anything but standard GPS in the vehicle.

[Clusterfrack]

That was the biggest drawback I've read about that app.

I know that there are "crime and place" apps out there that some folks use. I don't use anything but standard GPS in the vehicle.

If Waze had a violent crime heat map layer, or a route option that minimized hot spots, I'd use that.

Having finger guns pointed at me when I was stopped at one of the 50 stop signs on the route was a dealbreaker. I really hate Waze.

[RJ]

You'd be surprised.

From the hashtag feed last night, it seems the Driver was Eritrian (a person of color.) The two young ladies where white.

There is a serious discussion that ensued about how "racism can be devoid of color" to rationalize the event to fit the narrative.

I am not making this up.

It's like an entire segment of the country all of a sudden has the critical thinking capacity of a turnip.

Like I said. You literally can't make this shit up.

56923

[Kanye Wyoming]

Like I said. You literally can't make this shit up.

56923

56927

[Joe in PNG]

I'm confused. I thought all lives matter was white supremacy at its peak. People need to make up their damned minds...

"Our tribe good; your tribe bad".

[blues]

Who's on first?










(And does anyone have a scorecard?)

[RJ]

Who's on first?










(And does anyone have a scorecard?)

Well, for some reason, now I want to try a camel burger.

I’ve had a Bison Burger at Philmont Scout Ranch. Is it like that? That was very tasty.

[fatdog]

I am not making this up.

It's like an entire segment of the country all of a sudden has the critical thinking capacity of a turnip.

Don't insult turnips...

[Clusterfrack]

Well, for some reason, now I want to try a camel burger.

I’ve had a Bison Burger at Philmont Scout Ranch. Is it like that? That was very tasty.

Camel burger is ok. Not as good as cowburger, but one less camel in the world makes it taste better.

[Joe in PNG]

I'd probably go with camel curry myself.

[DDTSGM]

Yeah, elk and moose are brutal when it comes to vehicle collisions.

Horses can also be bad. I've seen a deer go over the hood and into the windshield of a BMW, no one was hurt, other than the deer.

[JAD]

.


56920

Seems like you should have given the Sheik’s kid that part in the movie.

[Sensei]

If Waze had a violent crime heat map layer, or a route option that minimized hot spots, I'd use that.

Having finger guns pointed at me when I was stopped at one of the 50 stop signs on the route was a dealbreaker. I really hate Waze.

I’d view those stop signs as optional. It’s not like any police are around to ticket you for rolling through them...at 35 mph.


Back in the days of ABC maps, I had to take my Nissan from West Cleveland to the dealership near Case’s campus on the East side because my car would suddenly turn off when stopped. At the time, I was unfamiliar with the city and had no idea that my route took me into the Red Zone. I quickly learned to ignore those stop signs after I lost ignition in the East Cleveland hood and found my car being circled by two grown men riding kid’s BMX bikes, with massive Afro hair cuts, and sucking on pacifiers. Needless to say they were not there to give me a push-start.

[Borderland]

I’d view those stop signs as optional. It’s not like any police are around to ticket you for rolling through them...at 35 mph.

Ever drive in Mexico? You need insurance and lots of it.

[Sensei]

Ever drive in Mexico? You need insurance and lots of it.

I don’t allow myself to go to CA or NY, much less Mexico.

[Spartan1980]

Like I said. You literally can't make this shit up.

56923

I saw that pic on a Twitter post. It said the deceased was a "non-binary BLM supporter". The very next reply was someone saying "Let him go. It's what she would have wanted". I gave it 5 stars on the snark scale.

[5pins]

I saw that pic on a Twitter post. It said the deceased was a "non-binary BLM supporter". The very next reply was someone saying "Let him go. It's what she would have wanted". I gave it 5 stars on the snark scale.

That's disgusting! I can't believe they referred to that person as "she".

[Borderland]

Looks like someone at wastatepatrol finally figured this out. It's always been illegal for pedestrians to be on the freeway for a really good reason.


After the tragedy, the State Patrol announced it wasn’t letting protesters on the freeway, writing, “The @wastatepatrol will not be allowing protesters to enter I-5. For the safety of all citizens including protesters and motorists, pedestrians walking on the freeway will be arrested.”

https://heavy.com/news/2020/07/dawit-kelete/

[blues]

I wonder what the first clue was...:rolleyes:

[Borderland]

I wonder what the first clue was...:rolleyes:

Probably when an attorney told them what they were doing was a yuge legal liability for the state. By closing a freeway the state is signaling to the public that the freeway is being made safe for them and they, being the legal authority here, are taking responsibility for pedestrians safety in an otherwise unsafe place.

It won't surprise when Kelete uses the I was confused and disoriented as a defense. I don't think he was but how is someone to know for sure that he wasn't? Someone on a jury can't possibly know that unless some evidence is presented that he wasn't.

Plus the WSP is going to be sued for creating the environment where pedestrians were allowed to be on the freeway, especially at night. That was an administrative train wreck that won't go unnoticed when the WSP has to pay out a few million after the law suits all get settled.

[RJ]

I wonder what the first clue was...:rolleyes:

Must be when that new TV show started filming in Seattle...I heard they named it Dancing With the Cars.

[TAZ]

Probably when an attorney told them what they were doing was a yuge legal liability for the state. By closing a freeway the state is signaling to the public that the freeway is being made safe for them and they, being the legal authority here, are taking responsibility for pedestrians safety in an otherwise unsafe place.

It won't surprise when Kelete uses the I was confused and disoriented as a defense. I don't think he was but how is someone to know for sure that he wasn't? Someone on a jury can't possibly know that unless some evidence is presented that he wasn't.

Plus the WSP is going to be sued for creating the environment where pedestrians were allowed to be on the freeway, especially at night. That was an administrative train wreck that won't go unnoticed when the WSP has to pay out a few million after the law suits all get settled.

I certainly hope the survivor of the incident sues the ever living crap out if the state/city whoever was involved with making a decision that set up a dangerous protest area, then failed to protect it or whatever legal beagle word smithing is required.

I’d even love it if the driver sued for the emotional trauma the city/state whatever caused him with the totality negligent attempt at keeping protestors and drivers safe.

[Borderland]

I certainly hope the survivor of the incident sues the ever living crap out if the state/city whoever was involved with making a decision that set up a dangerous protest area, then failed to protect it or whatever legal beagle word smithing is required.

I’d even love it if the driver sued for the emotional trauma the city/state whatever caused him with the totality negligent attempt at keeping protestors and drivers safe.

I can tell you from my experience that one will be a slam dunk for a quick million or two from the state. Especially given that a liberal judge will probably determine the settlement. The state is so f'd here and they know it. I've been involved in a few of these and the outcome was never good for us.

[Lex Luthier]

Must be when that new TV show started filming in Seattle...I heard they named it Dancing With the Cars.

That one needs Totem Polar's grinning bulldog picture for emphasis.

[JRB]

I certainly hope the survivor of the incident sues the ever living crap out if the state/city whoever was involved with making a decision that set up a dangerous protest area, then failed to protect it or whatever legal beagle word smithing is required.

I’d even love it if the driver sued for the emotional trauma the city/state whatever caused him with the totality negligent attempt at keeping protestors and drivers safe.

While I'm sure such a lawsuit would succeed, I can't help but feel sorrow at the thought. Being stupid enough to dance around in a fucking interstate shouldn't net you a 7-digit chunk of taxpayer money because your idiocy is somehow the state's fault.

[TAZ]

While I'm sure such a lawsuit would succeed, I can't help but feel sorrow at the thought. Being stupid enough to dance around in a fucking interstate shouldn't net you a 7-digit chunk of taxpayer money because your idiocy is somehow the state's fault.

Agree, but at the same time imbeciles who purposefully set up this kind of stupid stuff need to pay the price. The city made a conscious decision to fellate retards.

[JRB]

Agree, but at the same time imbeciles who purposefully set up this kind of stupid stuff need to pay the price. The city made a conscious decision to fellate retards.

But that shouldn't mean those idiots get to roll over and reach for the taxpayers' coffers to pay their way out of a problem they made.

Those idiots should be fired from their positions and held to civil liability for the result. Since they're likely the same idiots that want to get rid of qualified immunity for LEO's they should be totally on board with being held personally liable for their decisions in an official capacity.

[UNM1136]

Always check the trees.

You wanna see sobriety start? Start an at scene crash/DWI investigation by asking a drunk driver still pinned in the car if there is supposed to be a baby in the carseat...

pat

[JRB]

You wanna see sobriety start? Start an at scene crash/DWI investigation by asking a drunk driver still pinned in the car if there is supposed to be a baby in the carseat...

pat

I'll take those 125*F days in full battle rattle with a SAW over a night like that any day and every day. There's no way I could do what you guys do.

[Borderland]

While I'm sure such a lawsuit would succeed, I can't help but feel sorrow at the thought. Being stupid enough to dance around in a fucking interstate shouldn't net you a 7-digit chunk of taxpayer money because your idiocy is somehow the state's fault.

The state created the problem when they closed the freeway so people could protest there. It would be different if they closed it to arrest and disperse the protesters but that's not my read on this. Nobody was arrested on that freeway except the driver of the vehicle that took out those protesters. Note the states new policy. Any peds on the freeway will be arrested. 180 degrees from closing freeways so people can protest there. The state (taxpayers) lose here and I'll bet someone in the WSP will be ''retiring'' early after a long and distinguished career.