Buying a complete lower question

[Grey]

Sorry for the newb question, but if I buy a complete KAC lower with a stock on it and then remove the stock (prior to installing any upper on it) and then put a pistol brace on it and then install a short barrel upper did I just make an SBR or do I have a pistol? I have always built stripped receivers so I wasn't sure what the law is regarding buying a complete lower that has never being mated with an upper.

Thanks!

[WobblyPossum]

Sorry for the newb question, but if I buy a complete KAC lower with a stock on it and then remove the stock (prior to installing any upper on it) and then put a pistol brace on it and then install a short barrel upper did I just make an SBR or do I have a pistol? I have always built stripped receivers so I wasn't sure what the law is regarding buying a complete lower that has never being mated with an upper.

Thanks!

My understanding is that you’d be making a pistol as long as you replaced the stock with a brace prior to adding the upper. A lower receiver, as long as it wasn’t manufactured into a complete rifle, should be transferred as an “other” on a 4473 since it’s not a rifle or a pistol. I asked Ash Hess this same question and he also said I would be able to build a pistol from a separate upper and lower.

[shane45]

If it came with a stock, it would seem to me to have been manufactured as a rifle.

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/qa/can-i-lawfully-make-rifle-pistol-without-registering-firearm

[Casual Friday]

If it came with a stock, it would seem to me to have been manufactured as a rifle.

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/qa/can-i-lawfully-make-rifle-pistol-without-registering-firearm

You are incorrect. Putting a stock on a lower that has never been built as a rifle doesn't change it's classification from an "other" or "receiver". Removing the stock prior, adding a brace, then installing a barreled upper receiver would make it a pistol. A stock in conjunction with a complete upper installed would make it a rifle or SBR depending on barrel length.

[Casual Friday]

Works for me. Especially with a migraine kicking in. Apologies extended in kind. As said, the 4473 is the real answer. Was it transferred as an "other" ?

That's the only way the FFL is supposed to transfer a lower receiver, whether stripped or assembled. If an FFL is marking pistol or rifle on the 4473 when transferring a lower receiver, I'd find a new FFL.

[shane45]

Agreed, but its a KAC lower. And at those price points I have seen dealers that split apart rifles. So I would be careful. Additionally, I wouldnt want to have to base my defence should a situation arise on a transfer error of a dealer :O

[Darth_Uno]

https://www.typicalshooter.com/atf-putting-a-stock-on-an-ar-15-lower-does-not-make-it-a-rifle/

This might be outdated info, but it's what I've been going by.

A receiver should be transferred as "other". A receiver with a stock should be transferred as "other". It's not until you start putting uppers on that you get into the technicalities of pistols, rifles, SBR's.

[Old Man Winter]

Yes, you can. Learned this lesson myself in 2019. Call Operation Parts / Small Arm Sales to confirm. They'll be happy to explain the regs and sell you a KAC lower.

[StraitR]

Every virgin/stripped receiver should be built into a pistol first. It can then be made into a rifle, and back to a pistol without creating a "weapon made from a rifle" subject to the NFA per ATF 2011-4. (https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/ruling/2011-4-pistols-configured-rifles-rifles-configured-pistols/download)

A good video from Adam Kraut....


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0eJO77J8k3I

[Cool Breeze]

If you get your lower and have the FFL mark it as other or receiver (as recommended), is it necessary to somehow prove you built it into a pistol first (i.e. brace + sub 16 inch barrel upper), just in case one day you want to build rifle later (i.e. put a stock plus 16+ inch upper on it)?

In my neophyte brain this seems like an honor system thing with the proper articulation of what you did, if there ever becomes an issue. Is that all it is? Or are people taking timestamped pictures of the receiver in its pistol configuration so they can do what they want with it after that date? :)

[OlongJohnson]

I can't find it on the site anymore, but PSA used to sell this RE as a stand-alone item:

https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-ar-15-pistol-buffer-tube-kit.html

I have a couple. Any lower I assemble gets one of these REs first, and goes to the range with a pistol-length upper to shoot a little video of it functioning as a pistol. Then I swap in the RE I'll use for the configuration I actually intend. As noted, I then forever have the option of reconfiguring that lower to be a pistol.

[WobblyPossum]

I have heard the idea that pistol first can be made into a rifle later and then back to a pistol several times. Does anyone have any documentation or case law they can point me towards? I always thought that once it was a rifle, a gun was a rifle forever and changing into a pistol configuration with a shorter barrel than 16” was then making a weapon from a rifle so it would be an SBR.

[Dan_S]

DanM

PM inbound

[Casual Friday]

I have heard the idea that pistol first can be made into a rifle later and then back to a pistol several times. Does anyone have any documentation or case law they can point me towards? I always thought that once it was a rifle, a gun was a rifle forever and changing into a pistol configuration with a shorter barrel than 16” was then making a weapon from a rifle so it would be an SBR.

It can be found on the ATF website.