230 gr vs 124 gr Gold Dot.

[witchking777]

Hi. My brother is currently carrying 124 gr Gold Dot in a Glock 17.4,and is considering switching to a Glock 21.4 and using the 230 gr Gold Dots,for those have used both, is there any ta tangible benefit to decreasing capacity for increased bullet weight? He does city patrol officer work in a rural area. Any input is appreciated, thanks!

[BehindBlueI's]

It's pretty much a wash these days, assuming proper bullet selection (like the Gold Dots). I went the other way, .45 to 9mm, but would carry any of the common duty cartridges. 9mm, .40 S&W, .45 Auto, they all work as advertised if you do your part.

[1911Nut]

I would go with the gun and ammo combo I shot the best. Pretty significant difference between a G17 and a G21, so it might come down to ergonomics. If it was a wash on how I shot them, I would defer to the G17 and the 124 GD's, if just for the lower total weight of the gun and ammo for all-day carry.

[WobblyPossum]

If your brother is paying for everything himself, to include practice ammunition, I’d recommend sticking with the G17 because he’d be able to train more for the same dollar value in ammunition. If his employer is footing the bill, he should choose whichever he likes better. He’s more likely to practice with a gun he likes, as most of us are. I carried a G21 for my last job, also stoked with 230gr Gold Dot. I liked it a lot, except for its size. There were no other options. Everyone was issued a G21 regardless of assignment. The G21 is a large gun but it’s one of the softest shooting .45s I’ve ever used. It was also a very accurate gun. My current job requires 9mm but gives me a couple of options of guns to carry, so I carry a G19/G26 with agency issued/required 124gr +P Gold Dot. I believe the gun/ammo will be just as effective as the previous gun/ammo. I do shoot the 9mm slightly faster because they recoil slightly less. I also enjoy the increased capacity. With the 9mm guns, I get a whole lot more ammunition for the same weight penalty.

My understanding of the terminal ballistics is that the only thing .45 ACP bullets do better than the same type of 9mm ones is crush/break heavy bones like the femur. That might be important if part of your handgun uses might include shooting large animals such as bears or angry moose. I don’t think it’s as important when talking about shooting people. When talking about people, you’re aiming for the same places regardless of what caliber you use (upper thoracic cavity or eye box). Your results, whether you hit or miss those places, probably won’t be determined by which caliber you chose.

[Trooper224]

I've been issued both the 17 and the 21, as well as a longtime user of Gold Dots. I'd choose the 21 if given the choice, but only because it fits my hand better. If your brother doesn't have those issues, there's no tangible benifit of one over the other. If I was in his position, I'd save the money and spend it on ammo or put it towards a training opportunity.

[03RN]

Lets see what speer says
56536

[5pins]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pdjcYjSsIok

[Xhado]

Lets see what speer says
56536

The picture is too small to see what Speer says

[SiriusBlunder]

The picture is too small to see what Speer says

Original:

Tested. Proven. Trusted. Gold Dot. (https://le.vistaoutdoor.com/downloads/catalogs/GoldDotPoster.pdf)

[psalms144.1]

As previously pointed out, shootability is always going to trump "stopping power" for me. In my case, the G21/G30 is just too big for my hand, leading to excessive "Glockitis" hitting low and left (much more so than the standard frames). I can overcome this with VERY careful focus on fundamentals and trigger press, but as soon as I start shooting at speed, the wheels come off.

If that were not the case (I shoot my 1911 LW CCI in .45 at the same speed/accuracy as a G19, so it's not really a caliber issue), I would opt for the 21, just because the .45 ACP gives me the warm and fuzzies, so I wouldn't worry about dropping from 17+1 to 13+1. BUT, there are very few folks with mitts big enough and enough grip strength to REALLY shoot the large frame Glocks on par with the standard frames.

I actually gave a go at the S&W M&P45 M2.0, because it was so much more "shootable" in my hands than the G21. But then I was giving up 7 rounds per magazine, and, honestly, that juice isn't worth the squeeze.

Nowadays, when I want to shoot .45 ACP, I do it through a 1911. Every other platform I'll stick with 9mm.

[witchking777]

Thanks for the many replies guys. We tested both,he's about a half second faster with the 9mm,accuracy wise he's about the same. How would the 147 gr Gold Dot compare to the 124 or 124 +p?

[Nephrology]

Thanks for the many replies guys. We tested both,he's about a half second faster with the 9mm,accuracy wise he's about the same. How would the 147 gr Gold Dot compare to the 124 or 124 +p?

All three are fine. If you want me to pick for you, go with the 124 +P. Has been used by NYPD for many years with no problems.

[psalms144.1]

Thanks for the many replies guys. We tested both,he's about a half second faster with the 9mm,accuracy wise he's about the same. How would the 147 gr Gold Dot compare to the 124 or 124 +p?And just to keep things unclear, I'd take 147gr HST over either 124gr loading. I have found it to be the most accurate "duty" load I've ever shot.

[Coyotesfan97]

And I’ll make it murkier for you. We’ve issued 124 Gold Dot for a long time with no issues.

[BehindBlueI's]

Thanks for the many replies guys. We tested both,he's about a half second faster with the 9mm,accuracy wise he's about the same. How would the 147 gr Gold Dot compare to the 124 or 124 +p?

I *personally* prefer heavy for caliber loads, but that's more voodoo then science. The differences seem to be largely angels dancing on pinheads. My department tested several different loads when we went back to 9mm from .40S&W and ultimately approved several but have only issued HSTs in 147 standard pressure and 124+P.

[Nephrology]

I *personally* prefer heavy for caliber loads, but that's more voodoo then science. The differences seem to be largely angels dancing on pinheads. My department tested several different loads when we went back to 9mm from .40S&W and ultimately approved several but have only issued HSTs in 147 standard pressure and 124+P.

I also like HST 147's and also because of voodoo


And I’ll make it murkier for you. We’ve issued 124 Gold Dot for a long time with no issues.

but bought 5 boxes of these for my glock 43s. Also because voodoo.

[TC215]

One of my former beat partners put a couple 230 grain Gold Dots to good use a couple nights ago (from over 20 yards). I'm sure a 9mm Gold Dot would have worked just as well, though.

[witchking777]

And just to keep things unclear, I'd take 147gr HST over either 124gr loading. I have found it to be the most accurate "duty" load I've ever shot.

That's what I carry in my G17.5. Nailed a jackrabbit second shot in the neck at 107 yds.

[witchking777]

And I’ll make it murkier for you. We’ve issued 124 Gold Dot for a long time with no issues.

That's what he's carrying now. He's limited to the standard pressure version. No problems in OIS or animal putdowns?

[witchking777]

I also like HST 147's and also because of voodoo



but bought 5 boxes of these for my glock 43s. Also because voodoo.

I prefer heavy for caliber as well,however I seem to remember Doc stating that "HST works best in 147 gr,the Gold Dot works best in 124 +p."

[Nephrology]

I prefer heavy for caliber as well,however I seem to remember Doc stating that "HST works best in 147 gr,the Gold Dot works best in 124 +p."

It's really not that important, trust me. In the grand scheme of things it's practically irrelevant. Just get whatever tickles your fancy and/or is cheaper

[Coyotesfan97]

That's what he's carrying now. He's limited to the standard pressure version. No problems in OIS or animal putdowns?

None that I’m aware of. We’ve had some one shot stops with it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Ivantheterrible]

I've dispatched a few four legged critters with the 124g +P GDs and have been very impressed with their performance. Never tried the .45 GDs on game though, years ago, I did shoot a deer with the old 230g HydraShok. The round performed basically the same as hardball would have. Wasn't impressed.

[Nephrology]

In my personal, subjective and relatively limited experience with GSW patients, bullet design was small potatoes vs. caliber (really, centerfire vs. rimfire) and round placement/#rounds.

Once a handgun bullet plows through the pulmonary hilum, it doesn't really matter what caliber or make/model it was. That is not a survivable injury. You could drop right onto the OR table and it wouldn't matter.

Also once saw a bullet that had entered patient's anterior neck (right around adam's apple) and ended exiting around his R. shoulder blade. Missed every single major vessel in between. Weird shit happens. Nothing to get to wrapped up about.

[BehindBlueI's]

I've dispatched a few four legged critters with the 124g +P GDs and have been very impressed with their performance. Never tried the .45 GDs on game though, years ago, I did shoot a deer with the old 230g HydraShok. The round performed basically the same as hardball would have. Wasn't impressed.

The Hydra-shoks didn't expand reliably in the .45 Auto. I think the design worked better with higher velocity cartridges.

[SWAT Lt.]

The 9mm 124gr, and subsequently the .40 155gr, Hydra Shoks we used to issue were very inconsistent in OISs. Once we switched to Federal Tac Bonded we saw a marked improvement in performance.

[Lost River]

Hi. My brother is currently carrying 124 gr Gold Dot in a Glock 17.4,and is considering switching to a Glock 21.4 and using the 230 gr Gold Dots,for those have used both, is there any ta tangible benefit to decreasing capacity for increased bullet weight? He does city patrol officer work in a rural area. Any input is appreciated, thanks!


We discussed this in a thread some time back. The punchline was that in my experience the .45 worked better for putting down large animals, and people tend to forget that everywhere in America there are horses and cattle that get loose, vehicle struck, run through fences, sick etc. They can be very dangerous, and injure and kill far more people than bears ever do. A kick from an angry injured horse will kill a man or child before one can react. Cattle will stomp you into the ground.

If that is a realistic concern in the jurisdiction for your brother, then that may be something to consider. Most rural LEOs shoot far more animals in a career than they ever will people.

However, if he is at an agency that pretty much never puts animals down, and is only concerned with man vs man type situations, then I would go with a 9mm and never look back.

Cheers Friend.

[BehindBlueI's]

We discussed this in a thread some time back. The punchline was that in my experience the .45 worked better for putting down large animals, and people tend to forget that everywhere in America there are horses and cattle that get loose, vehicle struck, run through fences, sick etc. They can be very dangerous, and injure and kill far more people than bears ever do. A kick from an angry injured horse will kill a man or child before one can react. Cattle will stomp you into the ground.

If that is a realistic concern in the jurisdiction for your brother, then that may be something to consider. Most rural LEOs shoot far more animals in a career than they ever will people.

However, if he is at an agency that pretty much never puts animals down, and is only concerned with man vs man type situations, then I would go with a 9mm and never look back.

Cheers Friend.

We very seldom get animals that large, but we do have that potential in a few beats. Our policy is long guns for animal destruction whenever possible, preferably the shotgun.

[Navin Johnson]

It would seem along gun is the solution with beasts. I can't imagine much difference tween any service pistol. (will work fine with head-neck also-shots.... best from back or side according to an experienced friend)

[BehindBlueI's]

It would seem along gun is the solution with beasts. I can't imagine much difference tween any service pistol. (will work fine with head-neck also-shots.... best from back or side according to an experienced friend)

I don't know that effect on animal was the main reason for the policy for us. Buckshot or 55gr JSP is less of a ricochet concern and I think that was the primary motivator. Animal Control used to have tranq guns and would take and euthanize injured animals, but discontinued that service at least a decade ago and we got tasked with animal destruction.

[Lost River]

It would seem along gun is the solution with beasts. I can't imagine much difference tween any service pistol. (will work fine with head-neck also-shots.... best from back or side according to an experienced friend)


I have always recommended "ear hole to eye hole" method. Having guys imagine their bullet passing from the close side ear, to the opposite side eye.

A .22 will (and does) work with this method.

The problem(s) is that in the heat of the moment most guys forget and start blasting away.

I later learn that:

They forgot the advice and try to shoot through the skull, which often gets deflected.

They were trying for "heart" shots.


They are decent pistol shots on the range, but have a harder time in the field.


The animals, while injured are still semi mobile, and not presenting a stationary target. That happens in a lot of cases. They get one broken leg, and their survival instinct kicks in, so they won't let anyone close. They will stay at least 50 feet away from people as they consider them a threat.

If you have a rifle with appropriate ammo that you believe will penetrate into vital organs, then this would be a good time to use it. If not try to position yourself to set up for a clean head shot with a solid backstop.

I stay away from neck shots.

The other thing I have noted is that people can get worked up and start to shoot repeatedly. This is not about shooting a lot. It is about shoot well.

Just once, and turn the lights out. It is far more humane, and safer for the community.

Here is a pic from last year where a 230 grain was used to put down a cow elk that the vehicle in front of me hit, when I was on my way to a shoot with friends.

https://i.imgur.com/vB4IAVN.jpg


Ear hole to eye hole.


A single shot and her suffering stopped. You can see in the pic where she was struck by the truck.

[TC215]

One of my former beat partners put a couple 230 grain Gold Dots to good use a couple nights ago (from over 20 yards). I'm sure a 9mm Gold Dot would have worked just as well, though.

FWIW, I found out today that it was actually a bonded 230 grain Golden Saber. I saw the pictures of the projectile that was removed during autopsy, and it could be used in a commercial for Remington. Excellent expansion. It went in dead-center in the suspect’s chest and ended up in his back, without exiting. The other round went in the suspect’s gun hand (it was outstretched, pointed towards the officer) and exited his forearm.

Oh, and the final measurement on the shots was exactly 25 yards.

[revolvergeek]

And just to keep things unclear, I'd take 147gr HST over either 124gr loading. I have found it to be the most accurate "duty" load I've ever shot.

Myself also. Speaking just for my personal guns the 147 HST tends to group better for me than the 124.

To the original question I like the 230 Gold Dot load and shoot it all my alloy frame 1911s. It is a well behaved and consistent load.