Jordan Peterson: The activists are now stalking the hard scientists

[Wendell]

He's back.


I have watched the universities of the Western world devour themselves in a myriad of fatal errors over the last two decades, and take little pleasure in observing the inevitable unfold. It is a failing of human reason, with all its limitations, ego, and pretensions, to serve as Cassandra; to derive a certain satisfaction in watching the ship whose demise was foretold breach its hull on rocks hidden from all other observers. The self-righteous pleasure of “I told you so,” is, however, of little comfort when the icy water wends its way around ankle, knee and thigh, threatening to swamp everything still retaining its incalculable and unlikely value, even if it simultaneously makes short shrift of the ignorance and willful blindness that is frequently part and parcel of the death of something once great.
It is also necessary to note that the catastrophic failures of process and aim which I am about to relate were by no means hidden from the public view by the persons and institutions in question. They were instead positively trumpeted to all by multiple attempts to harness the powers of social media and announced, more traditionally, in press releases designed to indicate the success of some great and laudable moral striving. It is nothing less than a dire day when the proud revelation of vices of deadly and multifarious seriousness serve to substitute for announcements of genuine and valuable achievement, but that is where we are at — make no mistake about it.


https://nationalpost.com/opinion/jordan-peterson-the-activists-are-now-stalking-the-hard-scientists/wcm/e6e84649-4a24-4ab7-8462-47580d115e25/


Twitter seems to exist primarily for the purpose of generating mobs — composed primarily of individuals who are hungry for blood and desiring to bask in the joys of reasonably risk-free reputation destruction, revenge and self-righteousness. Furthermore, as far as Twitter mobs go, those who complained about the Angewandte Chemie publication were by no means numerous, constituting perhaps less than a dozen.

No matter: once the complaints emerged, the editor of the journal in charge of Hudlicky’s work — Dr. Neville Compton — removed the paper from the journal’s website, and offered an abject apology for daring to have published it. Furthermore, he reported the “suspension” of two of the journal’s editors and cast aspersions on Hudlicky’s ethics, stating that his essay did not properly reflect fairness, trustworthiness and social awareness, while implying that the now-pilloried author and his peer reviewers and editors were discriminatory, unjust and inequitable in practice.



https://nationalpost.com/opinion/jordan-peterson-the-activists-are-now-stalking-the-hard-scientists/wcm/e6e84649-4a24-4ab7-8462-47580d115e25/

[FNFAN]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=12&v=C9SiRNibD14&feature=emb_title

We just need to "de-colonize" science. It's only viable science if it speaks to how you feel about it. Whatever "it" is. :p

[blues]

They're collapsing my space...

I suppose if they collapse it enough, they'll end up with a...

[Wendell]

Folklore won't get space force troopers to Mars, safely. If we can't get space force troopers to Mars, safely, how can we ever hope to colonize it?

[Doug]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=12&v=C9SiRNibD14&feature=emb_title

We just need to "de-colonize" science. It's only viable science if it speaks to how you feel about it. Whatever "it" is. :p

What did I just watch?

[FNFAN]

They're collapsing my space...

I suppose if they collapse it enough, they'll end up with a...

56330

Yes....?

[1slow]

They're collapsing my space...

I suppose if they collapse it enough, they'll end up with a...

In their eyebox ?

[FNFAN]

What did I just watch?


Refuting of the validity of the scientific method and its products as a mere byproduct of colonialism. Basically Newton should have checked his privilege and redistributed the apple.

[DDTSGM]

What did I just watch?

I believe it was actually a group acting out a Dunning–Kruger scenario.

Talk about 'you don't know what you don't know, but you're pretty freaking sure you do' that gal was chock full o' knowledge.

I kept waiting for the white gal to the left of the leader to tell her to STFU.

[trailrunner]

56330

Yes....?

I believe he's talking about a black hole.

[Joe in PNG]

It's a kind of modern Religious hysteria, but the religion in question is Progressiveism. It's not God on Their Side, but Progress and the Arrow of History.

By being On The Side Of History, they are obviously more evolved, more intelligent, more enlightened than all who came before, because Progress delivered them to that point. Whatever they do is right, because it's them doing it, and History is on their side.

Progress would also deliver their Utopia, if it weren't for all those ignorant reactionaries holding it back. Which is why they can't just live and let live. Which is why they have to destroy the past, because it's getting in the way. Eventually, it will come to a need to destroy people as well.

[blues]

I believe he's talking about a black hole.

Winner! trailrunner is too smart for the rest of us knuckle draggers.

[ralph]

It's a kind of modern Religious hysteria, but the religion in question is Progressiveism. It's not God on Their Side, but Progress and the Arrow of History.

By being On The Side Of History, they are obviously more evolved, more intelligent, more enlightened than all who came before, because Progress delivered them to that point. Whatever they do is right, because it's them doing it, and History is on their side.

Progress would also deliver their Utopia, if it weren't for all those ignorant reactionaries holding it back. Which is why they can't just live and let live. Which is why they have to destroy the past, because it's getting in the way. Eventually, it will come to a need to destroy people as well.

You’re last paragraph sounds like it’s right out of the communist playbook.. Never in my life have I seen so many people who are in love with the idea of communism, and yet they have no firsthand experience with it.. These people are blind to the past, which shows us that communism is unsustainable, and that it’s failed system. They only see the bright side, the beneficial side of communism, where supposedly, everyone’s equal, the state provides for all your needs.. They don’t see the dark side of communism, the gulags, slave labor, where they’ll find themselves if they get out of line far enough, and,if the state considers them a big enough threat, they’ll be forced to dig their own grave, and then get a bullet in the back of the head, or if the commies in charge, are more “progressive”, and have an eye on science, and profitability, they’ll harvest organs from their bodies while they’re still alive, like they supposedly do in China, after all, the state can’t afford to pass up a chance for a potential profit.. God help these people if they get the equality they’re being promised by communism, It’ll probably take about a decade or so, before they realize just how bad they got fucked... They’ll find out, that the state could care less about them, It only cares about being in power, and if anything considers them disposable, and in the event of war, completely expendable...

[Joe in PNG]

You’re last paragraph sounds like it’s right out of the communist playbook.. Never in my life have I seen so many people who are in love with the idea of communism, and yet they have no firsthand experience with it.. These people are blind to the past, which shows us that communism is unsustainable, and that it’s failed system. They only see the bright side, the beneficial side of communism, where supposedly, everyone’s equal, the state provides for all your needs.. They don’t see the dark side of communism, the gulags, slave labor, where they’ll find themselves if they get out of line far enough, and,if the state considers them a big enough threat, they’ll be forced to dig their own grave, and then get a bullet in the back of the head, or if the commies in charge, are more “progressive”, and have an eye on science, and profitability, they’ll harvest organs from their bodies while they’re still alive, like they supposedly do in China, after all, the state can’t afford to pass up a chance for a potential profit.. God help these people if they get the equality they’re being promised by communism, It’ll probably take about a decade or so, before they realize just how bad they got fucked... They’ll find out, that the state could care less about them, It only cares about being in power, and if anything considers them disposable, and in the event of war, completely expendable...

Yeah, they just don't know that it's been tried before, and failed hard. Those that do know will make excuses. To paraphrase the old quote, if you give up your liberty for the sake of security, you'll lose both.

[ralph]

Yeah, they just don't know that it's been tried before, and failed hard. Those that do know will make excuses. To paraphrase the old quote, if you give up your liberty for the sake of security, you'll lose both.

I’ve actually heard a couple of those excuses..”It wasn’t true communism” or “they didn’t go far enough” or, “this time it’ll be different”.. the boobs just don’t understand, that the answer is in history books..but, as we all know, those who don’t understand history, are doomed to repeat it..

[OlongJohnson]

As we are, play by play, repeating the histories of Athens and Rome.

[5pins]

You’re last paragraph sounds like it’s right out of the communist playbook.. Never in my life have I seen so many people who are in love with the idea of communism, and yet they have no firsthand experience with it.. These people are blind to the past, which shows us that communism is unsustainable, and that it’s failed system. They only see the bright side, the beneficial side of communism, where supposedly, everyone’s equal, the state provides for all your needs.. They don’t see the dark side of communism, the gulags, slave labor, where they’ll find themselves if they get out of line far enough, and,if the state considers them a big enough threat, they’ll be forced to dig their own grave, and then get a bullet in the back of the head, or if the commies in charge, are more “progressive”, and have an eye on science, and profitability, they’ll harvest organs from their bodies while they’re still alive, like they supposedly do in China, after all, the state can’t afford to pass up a chance for a potential profit.. God help these people if they get the equality they’re being promised by communism, It’ll probably take about a decade or so, before they realize just how bad they got fucked... They’ll find out, that the state could care less about them, It only cares about being in power, and if anything considers them disposable, and in the event of war, completely expendable...

I have no doubt the progressive neo-communist we are seeing would support exactly that if it came to it. They are already conducting themselves like the brown shirt SA of pre-Nazi Germany.

[Joe in PNG]

I have no doubt the progressive neo-communist we are seeing would support exactly that if it came to it. They are already conducting themselves like the brown shirt SA of pre-Nazi Germany.

Which is ironic when you consider what happened to the Brownshirts after Hitler took power- or any other revolutionary vanguard after the revolution.

Radicals are often held up as a treat by the merely extreme as an excuse to take power and suppress the radicals. Pre-war Japan was a good example.

[Suvorov]

Which is ironic when you consider what happened to the Brownshirts after Hitler took power- or any other revolutionary vanguard after the revolution.

Radicals are often held up as a treat by the merely extreme as an excuse to take power and suppress the radicals. Pre-war Japan was a good example.

My father would often tell stories of how after the Bolshevik revolution, all the intelligentsia who thought it wonderful to bring about a progressive new era were lined up against the wall. His exact words in broken English - "Against the wall's Mother Fukcers!"

Honestly - this is one of the few consolations I have when I think about what is coming down the pipe for us - if it all goes sideways and I'm on the loosing side, a lot of the people who made it happen will also be consumed by the beast that they have created.

[ralph]

I have no doubt the progressive neo-communist we are seeing would support exactly that if it came to it. They are already conducting themselves like the brown shirt SA of pre-Nazi Germany.

I couldn’t agree with you more.. These people are dangerous, and sadly, just like pre-Nazi Germany, most people don’t recognize this, this is the same mistake the German people made, and the same mistake the German government made.

If our government doesn’t start showing some leadership and soon, the same thing that happened in Germany, will happen here. Right now, IMO, all that would be needed would be some sort of financial calamity, in which 99% of the people took a big hit, and the 1% benefited, and that, could be the catalyst to set things off..

[TAZ]

I couldn’t agree with you more.. These people are dangerous, and sadly, just like pre-Nazi Germany, most people don’t recognize this, this is the same mistake the German people made, and the same mistake the German government made.

If our government doesn’t start showing some leadership and soon, the same thing that happened in Germany, will happen here. Right now, IMO, all that would be needed would be some sort of financial calamity, in which 99% of the people took a big hit, and the 1% benefited, and that, could be the catalyst to set things off..

Well, I hate to break it to you, but we kind of had a rather big financial calamity with the 6 month shut down. Which I think helped flare this retardation more than usual. We thankfully clawed some way out, but there is a move with the supposed second wave, case spikes... to bring that calamity back....

You’re correct, though. This is how Hitler and even Lenin manipulated idiots and public opinion to gain power.

[blues]

I couldn’t agree with you more.. These people are dangerous, and sadly, just like pre-Nazi Germany, most people don’t recognize this, this is the same mistake the German people made, and the same mistake the German government made.

If our government doesn’t start showing some leadership and soon, the same thing that happened in Germany, will happen here. Right now, IMO, all that would be needed would be some sort of financial calamity, in which 99% of the people took a big hit, and the 1% benefited, and that, could be the catalyst to set things off..

First they'd go after the Jews.

[Shoresy]

First they'd go after the Jews.

Warren Wilhelm agrees.

[blues]

Warren Wilhelm agrees.

Good one. :cool:

[ralph]

Well, I hate to break it to you, but we kind of had a rather big financial calamity with the 6 month shut down. Which I think helped flare this retardation more than usual. We thankfully clawed some way out, but there is a move with the supposed second wave, case spikes... to bring that calamity back....

You’re correct, though. This is how Hitler and even Lenin manipulated idiots and public opinion to gain power.

We had a calamity,yes, but not at the Weimar Republic level I was thinking of.. When dollar bills are worth as much as S&H green stamps, then we have real problems... We’re not there, yet..But that day is coming, and COVID-19 accelerated the process.. I think that we can all agree, that you can’t shut the entire economy down for several months, put roughly 40million people out of work, and print unlimited amounts of money, like the Fed has been doing, without some repercussions.. And, they’re coming..

[blues]

We had a calamity,yes, but not at the Weimar Republic level I was thinking of.. When dollar bills are worth as much as S&H green stamps, then we have real problems... We’re not there, yet..But that day is coming, and COVID-19 accelerated the process.. I think that we can all agree, that can’t shut the entire economy down for several months, put roughly 40million people out of work, and print unlimited amounts of money, like the Fed has been doing, without some repercussions.. And, they’re coming..

So, the chickens are coming home to roost?

https://chrisblattman.com/files/2017/03/chicken_one_million_dollar_bills_realistic_looking _novelty_money_hen_rooster_2_lgw.jpg

[Nephrology]

Refuting of the validity of the scientific method and its products as a mere byproduct of colonialism. Basically Newton should have checked his privilege and redistributed the apple.

They are all more than welcome to seek alternatives to the standard of care if/when they develop COVID-19

[ralph]

So, the chickens are coming home to roost?

https://chrisblattman.com/files/2017/03/chicken_one_million_dollar_bills_realistic_looking _novelty_money_hen_rooster_2_lgw.jpg

I have a friend of mine who has an actual million mark note from the Weimar Republic, according to him, when it was printed, it was worth roughly, 2-3 cents American.. but, yes, the chickens are coming home to roost...

[blues]

Ralph, I share your concerns. Don't let my gallows humor persuade you otherwise.

I think we'll come through this. It may resemble Thunderdome, but we'll come through it. I'm going down with the ship if it comes to it.

[Joe in PNG]

People forget that the Brownshirts were seen as merely extreme compared to the dangerously radical extremist of the Communist. Germany had ties with Russia, and knew about the horrors going on under the Bolsheviks.

I'm far less concerned about those dingbats blocking roads and looting stores than I am at the possibility that Americans would happily give up their civil rights so those idiots will be crushed.
It may be that Antifa's only real accomplishment is paving the road and removing the obstacles for the rise of the very Fascism they wish to prevent.

[willie]

Ralph, I share your concerns. Don't let my gallows humor persuade you otherwise.

I think we'll come through this. It may resemble Thunderdome, but we'll come through it. I'm going down with the ship if it comes to it.

Blues, I'll pick you up in my life boat, if you promise to give me the funny hat with the tin star. And you have to paddle as I beat the drum to set the pace. I may wish to water ski.:cool:

[blues]

Blues, I'll pick you up in my life boat, if you promise to give me the funny hat with the tin star. And you have to paddle as I beat the drum to set the pace. I may wish to water ski.:cool:

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51GdHyY8%2B0L._AC_.jpg

"Why do they always expect the Jew to row..."

[ralph]

Ralph, I share your concerns. Don't let my gallows humor persuade you otherwise.

I think we'll come through this. It may resemble Thunderdome, but we'll come through it. I'm going down with the ship if it comes to it.

Blues, no problems, I get a chuckle from your humor.. I agree, we’re in for one hell of a rough patch. I wasn’t kidding about the million mark note my friend has.. Quite a piece of history to hold in your hands.. He’s a uniform collector with a variety of stuff from several different periods in history, a lot of his collection is museum grade quality..He has a luftwaffe (sp?) sergeants uniform, complete,(except the boots)that was a tailored uniform, and, at one time, fit me perfectly.. It’s one thing to look at stuff like this in pictures, it’s another thing entirely, when you can hold the real item in your hands..

[NH Shooter]

First they'd go after the Jews.

My grandson is half Jewish. The fucktards will have to come through me first.

[blues]

My grandson is half Jewish. The fucktards will have to come through me first.

Well I have a mixed bloodline, too, NH, but that didn't mean much in Munich back in the day. I'll save you a spot at the sally port. ;)

[LittleLebowski]

Shutdown STEM for Black Lives Matter.

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/nation-world/national/article243433276.html

[blues]

Shutdown STEM for Black Lives Matter.

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/nation-world/national/article243433276.html

Well if the truth doesn't matter, is it any wonder that science, technology, engineering and math wouldn't be exempt?

[ralph]

Shutdown STEM for Black Lives Matter.

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/nation-world/national/article243433276.html

BLM...The gift that keeps on giving...Hey Blues, can you save me a spot too? I can row well, and I’ll learn a couple of sea-chanty’s for entertainment...

ETA: Is there anything that’s not considered racist by these people?

[blues]

BLM...The gift that keeps on giving...Hey Blues, can you save me a spot too? I can row well, and I’ll learn a couple of sea-chanty’s for entertainment...

You're in, Ralph, but leave the Luftwaffe uniform. ;)

[Joe in PNG]

We were due for a return to Lysenkoism.

[ralph]

You're in, Ralph, but leave the Luftwaffe uniform. ;)

That’s not a problem...I’m, ahhh, bit “bigger” now.. so, it wouldn’t fit.. not even close... :rolleyes:

[LittleLebowski]

Shutdown STEM for Black Lives Matter.

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/nation-world/national/article243433276.html

Let’s ask the New Guy what he thinks, might as well bring him into the PF fold :D

Bio

[Bio]

Let’s ask the New Guy what he thinks, might as well bring him into the PF fold :D

Bio

Lol, I'm not the one to ask. I've spent most of my time in mid-wesr land grant universities. Biochemistry departments that grew from midwest ag schools don't attract a lot of radicals.

I also made the jump to industry a few years back, and am worlds better for it.

Generally speaking, though. Researchers striking is dumb. Research matters because sometime down the road it might pay off big. It's a civilization's venture capitalism. It's not a public transport system where its absence is immediately felt.

If all research stops, people don't feel things get worse, things just quietly stop getting better.

I assume much of the population and almost all politicians sees researchers not working and says "cool, I can keep this money now, right?", and then they blow it to try and buy votes.

[LittleLebowski]

Lol, I'm not the one to ask. I've spent most of my time in mid-wesr land grant universities. Biochemistry departments that grew from midwest ag schools don't attract a lot of radicals.

I also made the jump to industry a few years back, and am worlds better for it.

Generally speaking, though. Researchers striking is dumb. Research matters because sometime down the road it might pay off big. It's a civilization's venture capitalism. It's not a public transport system where its absence is immediately felt.

If all research stops, people don't feel things get worse, things just quietly stop getting better.

I assume much of the population and almost all politicians sees researchers not working and says "cool, I can keep this money now, right?", and then they blow it to try and buy votes.

“Bread cast upon water multiplies sevenfold”

[trailrunner]

Well if the truth doesn't matter, is it any wonder that science, technology, engineering and math wouldn't be exempt?

I don't work at a university, but when I was a supervisor in a government lab, I hired five people: 2 were white, and 3 were black. I wasn't trying to hit any demographic goals. I just hired the best candidates.

[willie]

When writers submit articles for peer review, unless author is identified as person of color, new criteria for inclusion and diversity can't be applied. I remember that at least 45 years ago some minority activist academicians criticized "the cult of precision". That made no sense. About this time NYC's university system had been under attack because it tried to maintain standards. We have arrived at a research system whose methodology will demand that researchers develop bibliographies having "minority citations". Will these be immune to criticism?

Cultures and world views are based on assumptions, and historically, some of these have set up barriers for others. Dominant groups are reluctant to share power. I know this first hand and have at times been a fellow traveler and companion of shameful overt practitioners. Ignoring the obvious and lacking courage to speak out is one example. One thing that that stymies me is that now I can not question any of the assumptions of progressive activists. My opinion is that in a public or community forum I can not ask actors to qualify statements. There can be no debate over what hate speech is. Distinguishing between looters and protestors is unacceptable. Sometimes I think we are trading one type of madness for another type.

[blues]

I don't work at a university, but when I was a supervisor in a government lab, I hired five people: 2 were white, and 3 were black. I wasn't trying to hit any demographic goals. I just hired the best candidates.

Isn't that the way it's supposed to work?

[FNFAN]

I think there's an explanation.


https://youtu.be/YH07l10BbZY

[jtcarm]

What did I just watch?

It sounded to me like they want to re-invent the wheel, because the wrong people invented it.

[blues]

It sounded to me like they want to re-invent the wheel, because the wrong people invented it.

That Isaac Newton guy better check his ego...let alone his privilege.

[willie]

That Isaac Newton guy better check his ego...let alone his privilege.

Hey, Blues, show me your privilege.

[Joe in PNG]

That's religious cults for you. Everything must be suborned and subjected to dogma, or destroyed.

[blues]

Hey, Blues, show me your privilege.

56427

[WobblyPossum]

First they'd go after the Jews.

Could we try just one leftist revolution where we DON’T go after the Jews first?

[blues]

Could we try just one leftist revolution where we DON’T go after the Jews first?

That's a pretty tall order, Dan. Way above my pay grade.

[WobblyPossum]

That's a pretty tall order, Dan. Way above my pay grade.

Once a charismatic leader arises, we should send a list of alternative groups to be targeted first: people who drive the speed limit in the passing lane, people who have loud phone conversations in movie theaters, that Paul Anderson guy who directed all the awful movies based on video games, etc. I’m sure we can get Jews down to fifth or sixth on the list, easy.

[blues]

Once a charismatic leader arises, we should send a list of alternative groups to be targeted first: people who drive the speed limit in the passing lane, people who have loud phone conversations in movie theaters, that Paul Anderson guy who directed all the awful movies based on video games, etc. I’m sure we can get Jews down to fifth or sixth on the list, easy.

Nice.

[RoyGBiv]

Once a charismatic leader arises, we should send a list of alternative groups to be targeted first: people who drive the speed limit in the passing lane, people who have loud phone conversations in movie theaters, that Paul Anderson guy who directed all the awful movies based on video games, etc. I’m sure we can get Jews down to fifth or sixth on the list, easy.

Don't forget tailgaters.

[Clusterfrack]

First they'd go after the Jews.

Already been going on for some time...

Black Lives Matter blindsides Jewish supporters with anti-Israel platform
By Valerie Richardson - The Washington Times
Monday, August 15, 2016
https://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/aug/15/black-lives-matters-anti-israel-platform-blindside/

[Clusterfrack]

[video=youtube;C9SiRNibD14]We just need to "de-colonize" science. It's only viable science if it speaks to how you feel about it. Whatever "it" is. :p

This is sad, because the best chance economically disadvantaged people have for advancement lies in STEM. I've seen this attitude first hand, and not only in a racial context.

Science, engineering, and math are by far the most difficult subjects. Some students don't arrive at college well-prepared, and to try to save face, they put their effort into attacking the subject matter and professor rather than in addressing their own weaknesses. Or they simply go into less demanding fields like Gender Studies and Ethnic Studies.

[blues]

Already been going on for some time...

Black Lives Matter blindsides Jewish supporters with anti-Israel platform
By Valerie Richardson - The Washington Times
Monday, August 15, 2016
https://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/aug/15/black-lives-matters-anti-israel-platform-blindside/

While there's plenty of anti-Jewish fervor to go around in that organization, I don't (necessarily) equate taking a stance against Israeli policy and being anti-Jew. It may be equivalent for some, but I don't think for all.

Obviously, being Jewish isn't the same thing as giving tacit approval to Israeli policies.

Nonetheless, it's discouraging that the good work and sacrifices of the Jewish civil rights workers of the 60's is largely forgotten.

[AKDoug]

This is sad, because the best chance economically disadvantaged people have for advancement lies in STEM. I've seen this attitude first hand, and not only in a racial context.

Science, engineering, and math are by far the most difficult subjects. Some students don't arrive at college well-prepared, and to try to save face, they put their effort into attacking the subject matter and professor rather than in addressing their own weaknesses. Or they simply go into less demanding fields like Gender Studies and Ethnic Studies.

I see it all the time in this backwoods town I live in. I love it here, but like most lower income rural areas, trying to wrap a kid's head around why even basic mathematics is important is tough. Every time an adult or kid comments on how math is a waste, I point out that it isn't and it was the building block to my success. Business only really requires basic math, but it sure is nice to be able to do that in my head. Doing it in your head is easier when you've exercised and taught your brain by challenging yourself in higher math classes.

[blues]

I see it all the time in this backwoods town I live in. I love it here, but like most lower income rural areas, trying to wrap a kid's head around why even basic mathematics is important is tough. Every time an adult or kid comments on how math is a waste, I point out that it isn't and it was the building block to my success. Business only really requires basic math, but it sure is nice to be able to do that in my head. Doing it in your head is easier when you've exercised and taught your brain by challenging yourself in higher math classes.

As a kid, as my dad prepared to go to work and I prepared to go to school, he would call out math problems for me to solve in my head. Kept me on my toes, and to this day I solve most basic math problems that way.

I used to think he was being a pain...but there was a method to his madness and it paid dividends...help me along the way to getting offered scholarships to every school I applied to but one.

[AKDoug]

As a kid, as my dad prepared to go to work and I prepared to go to school, he would call out math problems for me to solve in my head. Kept me on my toes, and to this day I solve most basic math problems that way.

I used to think he was being a pain...but there was a method to his madness and it paid dividends...carried me through to getting offered scholarships to every school I applied to but one.

The crying shame of current elementary school math education in my school district is the elimination of rote memorization for basic mathematics.

When I was in school we did two things that really helped cement basic math in my head. One was the entire second and third grade doing multiplication tables. By the end of third grade it was timed and you were rewarded on speed. Kids that couldn't keep up were identified easily and extra teaching was applied to them. I was never the fastest, but I was close, and my competitiveness drove me to try harder. The second thing was in third grade as well. A teacher would flash a problem for a few seconds on the overhead projector and you'd have to solve it. You'd have about 30 seconds before the next one was flashed up. You wrote your answer down if you could do it in your head, but there were no deductions if you scratched it out on paper as well. Once again, kids with lower math skills were identified and helped out.

We ended up homeschooling our three kids through elementary school due primarily to the lack of math education. It was the lack of even basic fundamentals being taught. Then they started sending my kids home with long division problems when they hadn't even mastered multiplication tables. We tried to work with the school, but memorization of multiplication tables didn't work well with base 10 math programs and teachers that didn't appreciate a way of doing math outside their curriculum. The final straw was a friend of ours that taught middle school math for 20 years, retiring right at 20 years out of frustration. Middle school in the same district used a more traditional math curriculum and when she received students from the elementary school she had to back track to teach them the traditional basics.

I am no math genius and struggled in calculus, but I damn sure can tell you that 15,000 cubic feet of gravel is going to take roughly 55 dump truck loads in about 10 seconds in my head, while driving down the road where a calculator isn't exactly practical.

To make this relevant to this thread. I feel that many subjects are being taught in school by people who really aren't very good at it. They are producing students that don't really care about STEM and that seems to be the large demographic of today's "social warriors".

[trailrunner]

deleted

[Clusterfrack]

As a kid, as my dad prepared to go to work and I prepared to go to school, he would call out math problems for me to solve in my head. Kept me on my toes, and to this day I solve most basic math problems that way.

I used to think he was being a pain...but there was a method to his madness and it paid dividends...help me along the way to getting offered scholarships to every school I applied to but one.

I had a differential equations prof who would begin every lecture with a problem that started something like this: “If you were walking down the street and someone asked you to solve this initial value problem...”

Of course we all thought this was incredibly stupid... until I was on a date with a really hot girl, walking down the street and heard, “CF, can you solve this system of rate equations for me? The state variables are...” The girl thought it was some crazy dude, but it was my DiffEq prof.

[blues]

I had a differential equations prof who would begin every lecture with a problem that started something like this: “If you were walking down the street and someone asked you to solve this initial value problem...”

Of course we all thought this was incredibly stupid... until I was on a date with a really hot girl, walking down the street and heard, “CF, can you solve this system of rate equations for me? The state variables are...” The girl thought it was some crazy dude, but it was my DiffEq prof.

I found that the hot chicks didn't want me for my mind. ;)


(Apologies to any hot chicks that are triggered by being objectified via the crass descriptive used in penning the reply above. Actually...belay that thought. Get a sense of humor.)

[Totem Polar]

As a kid, as my dad prepared to go to work and I prepared to go to school, he would call out math problems for me to solve in my head. Kept me on my toes, and to this day I solve most basic math problems that way.

I used to think he was being a pain...but there was a method to his madness and it paid dividends...help me along the way to getting offered scholarships to every school I applied to but one.

My dad used to do the same thing. Of course, he was also a math prof. :)

[RoyGBiv]

As a kid, as my dad prepared to go to work and I prepared to go to school, he would call out math problems for me to solve in my head. Kept me on my toes, and to this day I solve most basic math problems that way.
In grade school I remember me and my crossing guard buddies would call out numbers and bases to pass the time..... "10110 Base 2" ......
First to get the answer got to ask the next one...

In the early 70's, nobody knew that might be useful some day. /nerd

[blues]

In grade school I remember me and my crossing guard buddies would call out numbers and bases to pass the time..... "10110 Base 2" ......
First to get the answer got to ask the next one...

In the early 70's, nobody knew that might be useful some day. /nerd

I haven't found a use for the quadratic equation or much of my old math learning these days. A little algebra...maybe a bit of geometry / trigonometry...

[RoyGBiv]

I haven't found a use for the quadratic equation or much of my old math learning these days. A little algebra...maybe a bit of geometry / trigonometry...

But I bet you appreciate the results achieved from folks that did find a use for it....

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/6d/Katherine_Johnson_1983.jpg/220px-Katherine_Johnson_1983.jpg https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/proxy/fWgNbjxvRHQLLbIu_dDDS1FCBnLISO6_WFzqlmlJlmxzkn-0g85v6Q2iPeVi-K2uNFJcp_v-_g1mp89is0K3KOBC3Uz_sDuQQ2P5Vl1mqKppM-C1h_lxyw22Ru-s5k2IVTfX8bnT0NmhQ-DE7l3WrUV--Z_zC6stRIkJt147i_f-wUsZ8-2ku3Q

[blues]

But I bet you appreciate the results achieved from folks that did find a use for it....

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/6d/Katherine_Johnson_1983.jpg/220px-Katherine_Johnson_1983.jpg https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/proxy/fWgNbjxvRHQLLbIu_dDDS1FCBnLISO6_WFzqlmlJlmxzkn-0g85v6Q2iPeVi-K2uNFJcp_v-_g1mp89is0K3KOBC3Uz_sDuQQ2P5Vl1mqKppM-C1h_lxyw22Ru-s5k2IVTfX8bnT0NmhQ-DE7l3WrUV--Z_zC6stRIkJt147i_f-wUsZ8-2ku3Q

RoyGBiv

Being from where you're from, you'll appreciate that I was one of two students from my junior high that was accepted to Bronx High School of Science...

...but I decided that taking a bus to the subway, and then two different subway lines to get there each morning, and return each afternoon was more than I wanted to take on.

No wonder I never amounted to anything.

[RoyGBiv]

@RoyGBiv (https://pistol-forum.com/member.php?u=2513)

Being from where you're from, you'll appreciate that I was one of two students from my junior high that was accepted to Bronx High School of Science...

...but I decided that taking a bus to the subway, and then two different subway lines to get there each morning, and return each afternoon was more than I wanted to take on.

No wonder I never amounted to anything.

Absolutely! No way I was making the trip to Stuyvesant every day. I think we turned out ok.

My youngest is a math wiz. Graduated HS this year and will be starting university math in Vector Calculus... I'm not sure I remember what that is, honestly.
Would be cool to see my kid on a path to space.... We'll see. Smarter than me for sure.

[blues]

Absolutely! No way I was making the trip to Stuyvesant every day. I think we turned out ok.

My youngest is a math wiz. Graduated HS this year and will be starting university math in Vector Calculus... I'm not sure I remember what that is, honestly.
Would be cool to see my kid on a path to space.... We'll see. Smarter than me for sure.

Congrats. That's something to be proud of, as I'm more than sure you are.

Well, things change. I got my scholarships for my interest in astronomy and astrophysics. (And I used to take classes on the weekend at the Hayden Planetarium and NYU.)

Look where I ended up! :p

[OlongJohnson]

This is sad, because the best chance economically disadvantaged people have for advancement lies in STEM. I've seen this attitude first hand, and not only in a racial context.

This is the fundamental reason this country is getting its ass handed to it by developing nations. They believe in the power of STEM to provide a better life. Being an engineer is prestigious and honorable; you are contributing to the advancement of society and providing for your family. Our culture broadly has bought into the b.s. that "smart people" are nerds and losers. I think it really is that simple.



I haven't found a use for the quadratic equation or much of my old math learning these days. A little algebra...maybe a bit of geometry / trigonometry...

A slice of what I do for a living is real life story problems, and it made me happy when I figured out that the equations for a common scenario reduced to the quadratic. It's a beautiful thing.

[revchuck38]

Congrats. That's something to be proud of, as I'm more than sure you are.

Well, things change. I got my scholarships for my interest in astronomy and astrophysics. (And I used to take classes on the weekend at the Hayden Planetarium and NYU.)

Look where I ended up! :p

So you were just taking up space in school?

[ccmdfd]

Congrats. That's something to be proud of, as I'm more than sure you are.

Well, things change. I got my scholarships for my interest in astronomy and astrophysics. (And I used to take classes on the weekend at the Hayden Planetarium and NYU.)

Look where I ended up! :p

Cool

https://www.astrobin.com/273926/B/?nc=user

[blues]

So you were just taking up space in school?

Pretty much. Not entirely.


Cool

https://www.astrobin.com/273926/B/?nc=user

Nice image. I remember the first time I saw M33 with my 8" Dob. It was an "aha" moment since the surface brightness is low relative to its large size.

I never really got into astrophotography but I still have a mount I bought as a kid in the 60's from Lafayette Electronics to mount a camera to my 2.4" equatorial refractor at the time.

Thanks for sharing that.

[ccmdfd]

Pretty much. Not entirely.



Nice image. I remember the first time I saw M33 with my 8" Dob. It was an "aha" moment since the surface brightness is low relative to its large size.

I never really got into astrophotography but I still have a mount I bought as a kid in the 60's from Lafayette Electronics to mount a camera to my 2.4" equatorial refractor at the time.

Thanks for sharing that.

Happy to.

I didn't get into it until roughly five or six years ago. I thought I was going to be strictly visual but quickly developed "Hubble image syndrome" and therefore decided to try astrophotography.

[blues]

Happy to.

I didn't get into it until roughly five or six years ago. I thought I was going to be strictly visual but quickly developed "Hubble image syndrome" and therefore decided to try astrophotography.

I'd enjoy seeing more of your images from time to time.

[ccmdfd]

I'd enjoy seeing more of your images from time to time.

Click on the author name and it will take you to my gallery.

It's been over a year since I've last shot anyting. We moved to a place that I thought was going to be Primo for doing this, larger land, more out in the country. However, turns out we have worse light pollution here due to industry and a lot of trees in the yard that block my view, worse than where I was before.

My last shoot was done on a trip up to the Virginia mountains.

You have good skies in your neck of the woods?
Thanks for the compliments

[blues]

Click on the author name and it will take you to my gallery.

It's been over a year since I've last shot anyting. We moved to a place that I thought was going to be Primo for doing this, larger land, more out in the country. However, turns out we have worse light pollution here due to industry and a lot of trees in the yard that block my view, worse than where I was before.

My last shoot was done on a trip up to the Virginia mountains.

Thanks

My trees have gotten so big that if it's not virtually overhead I don't get to see much of anything anymore. I used to be able to see Scorpio. I might still be able to catch Virgo for the galaxies, but it's to the point I rarely pull the telescope outside these days out of frustration.

Early on, I'd go up to the Blue Ridge Parkway to the Mt. Pisgah parking area, but it's just not for me to drive up and back for an observing session. I like doing it from home.

[Wondering Beard]

So you were just taking up space in school?

Head in the stars and all that.

[blues]

Head in the stars and all that.

:cool:

You reminded me of my Pre-Socratic Greek philosophy class:



Thales, that you will learn what is in the heavens, when you cannot see what is front of your feet?

[Wondering Beard]

:cool:

You reminded me of my Pre-Socratic Greek philosophy class: Thales, that you will learn what is in the heavens, when you cannot see what is front of your feet?

It properly laid the groundwork for your future investigative career: the game was about to be afoot!

[blues]

It properly laid the groundwork for your future investigative career: the game was about to be afoot!

I feel like I have no leg to stand on, though.


;)

[Wondering Beard]

I feel like I have no leg to stand on, though.


;)

It's a journey, it always has legs :-)