Shitty is shitty: check your gear

[ASH556]

Hit the range with karmapolice yesterday and at one point I set my rifle down and observed the pic below. Daniel Defense Form 4 MK18 with their aluminum QD endplate factory staked. 2012 transfer, so probably 2011 gun with maybe 10K on the lower. 100% FAIL! I re-torqued it and staked it on the other side when I got home last night, but a proper steel endplate will be ordered and installed shortly. THIS is why proper assembly procedures matter.


56275

[OlongJohnson]

And the correct materials.

[ASH556]

And the correct materials.

That too!

[rd62]

Is it an aluminum end plate or one of their QD end plate sling mounts?

[ASH556]

Is it an aluminum end plate or one of their QD end plate sling mounts?

Yes. Their aluminum end plate QD mount.

[rd62]

Yes. Their aluminum end plate QD mount.

Huh... I've got a couple with a fair amount of rounds on them without issue. I wouldn't have expected that from a DD carbine, but then I staked mine myself.

[AKDoug]

It's something that DD is semi-famous for. IG caught mine right away in the class I took from him. That was about 4K rounds ago. I staked mine on the other side and rocked on. I can see wanting to change it, but I never bothered.

[Hambo]

Hit the range with karmapolice yesterday and at one point I set my rifle down and observed the pic below. Daniel Defense Form 4 MK18 with their aluminum QD endplate factory staked. 2012 transfer, so probably 2011 gun with maybe 10K on the lower. 100% FAIL! I re-torqued it and staked it on the other side when I got home last night, but a proper steel endplate will be ordered and installed shortly. THIS is why proper assembly procedures matter.



Dammit, part failure. Time to buy a Law folder. ;)

[Wake27]

Does DD only stake in one spot?


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[ASH556]

Does DD only stake in one spot?


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They did on this gun. Figured it would be ok. It was, ‘til it wasn’t. I was wrong.

[Coyote41]

Proof that because a company is touted by instagram celebrities, it still needs to be treated as suspect until you’ve thoroughly vetted your sample. I’ve been burned by this several times.


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[OlongJohnson]

Good time to re-read this:

http://pistol-training.com/articles/trust-no-one-an-insiders-perspective

[Casual Friday]

Honestly, 8 years and 10,000 rounds on an aluminum end plate that was only staked in one place is quite impressive actually. The last aluminum end plate I used came loose after about 18 months and it was staked in two spots. That was enough to turn to turn me against them.

[Coyote41]

Honestly, 8 years and 10,000 rounds on an aluminum end plate that was only staked in one place is quite impressive actually. The last aluminum end plate I used came loose after about 18 months and it was staked in two spots. That was enough to turn to turn me against them.

It’s impressive sure, but it doesn’t change the fact that aluminum is not an appropriate material for this application. A “so-called” premium company like DD should know this. Speaking of which, how’s that gas port?

[ASH556]

It’s impressive sure, but it doesn’t change the fact that aluminum is not an appropriate material for this application. A “so-called” premium company like DD should know this. Speaking of which, how’s that gas port?

.070 Crane Spec ‘cause the barrel’s a Colt! :cool:

[Casual Friday]

It’s impressive sure, but it doesn’t change the fact that aluminum is not an appropriate material for this application. A “so-called” premium company like DD should know this.

Yeah, it's almost like that's the point I was making.

[tango-papa]

Hit the range with karmapolice yesterday and at one point I set my rifle down and observed the pic below. Daniel Defense Form 4 MK18 with their aluminum QD endplate factory staked. 2012 transfer, so probably 2011 gun with maybe 10K on the lower. 100% FAIL! I re-torqued it and staked it on the other side when I got home last night, but a proper steel endplate will be ordered and installed shortly. THIS is why proper assembly procedures matter.


56275

I can't tell from your photo, but if that castle nut is original to the gun, check the staking pockets before re-using it.
In addition to their aluminum endplate, DD's staking pockets are known to be too shallow to accept a proper amount of material "flow" even from a correctly staked steel endplate.
The DD combo of the aluminum endplate & out of spec CN staking pockets is no good.

I've replaced a few on co-workers DD guns and the side-by-side comparison to in-spec castle nuts with correctly machined/in-spec pockets is obvious.


The Forward Controls Design castle nut is a work of art, and although a bit pricey for what it is, I've got a few and they are really nice.
The FCD castle nut combined with the Impact Weapons Components QD End Plate is a pretty slick combo.

https://www.forwardcontrolsdesign.com/CNF-Castle-Nut-Forward-Controls_p_103.html

https://www.impactweaponscomponents.com/product/qd-end-plate-rl-by-impact-weapons-components/


The Sionics Castle Nut & QD Receiver End Plate are a nice, quality combo as well.

[breakingtime91]

I really like the pws end plate and ratcheting castle nut for this reason. Two clicks, witness mark and good to go. If it slips it'll catch the next notch and witness mark let's you know. Never had that happen on 4 different carbines I've put them on for me and friends

[Norville]

I really like the pws end plate and ratcheting castle nut for this reason. Two clicks, witness mark and good to go. If it slips it'll catch the next notch and witness mark let's you know. Never had that happen on 4 different carbines I've put them on for me and friends

I just built a lower and used one of these. Not much trigger time but so far, so good. Sort of the “easy button “ castle nut approach. I have one from FCD, it is almost too nice to install.

[ASH556]

Fixed: new Colt endplate arrived from Brownells today. Castle nut torqued to 40 ft/lb, staked in two places and cold blued. Check out ‘dem factory-lookin’ square stakes!

5676856769

[EVP]

I am not to savvy on current DD parts and upgrades, but just curious why does DD have or use aluminum end plate?

[Clusterfrack]

Retarded engineering makes me distrust a brand. Any ME or materials science undergrad, or even a high school kid who's taken machine shop knows that staking aluminum isn't part of a good design. When I discover something this obvious, it makes me question what other crappy designs are hiding in the company's product line. For example, that's why I don't trust anything from S&W anymore.

[tango-papa]

Fixed: new Colt endplate arrived from Brownells today. Castle nut torqued to 40 ft/lb, staked in two places and cold blued. Check out ‘dem factory-lookin’ square stakes!

5676856769

Good looking stake job.
What did you use (I'm guessing a "custom" punch)?

[ASH556]

Good looking stake job.
What did you use (I'm guessing a "custom" punch)?

The magic tool (found it in a google search on an obscure forum, IN gun owners maybe?) is a #1 square drive bit, impact rated. I found this Milwaukee locally and like it better than the Dewalt for its thinner shank so you can see what you’re doing a little better.

56807

[ASH556]

Retarded engineering makes me distrust a brand. Any ME or materials science undergrad, or even a high school kid who's taken machine shop knows that staking aluminum isn't part of a good design. When I discover something this obvious, it makes me question what other crappy designs are hiding in the company's product line. For example, that's why I don't trust anything from S&W anymore.

I agree. It’s a registered lower, and I do like their flared magwell, but honestly, the only thing DD on the gun at this point is the lower itself, and some of the lower parts (takedowns, springs, detents), and receiver extension. The trigger and bolt catch are Geissele, trigger guard is Magpul, Grip and Upper received are BCM, BCG and barrel are factory Colt.

[tango-papa]

The magic tool (found it in a google search on an obscure forum, IN gun owners maybe?) is a #1 square drive bit, impact rated. I found this Milwaukee locally and like it better than the Dewalt for its thinner shank so you can see what you’re doing a little better.



Pretty slick - thanks for the info & photo.

I'll be stealing your idea and adding one of those to my tool kit to go along with the "Mayhew #415-5/16 5/32 PT Center Punch" that Larson (RIP) used/recommended.

[Naphtali]

Pretty slick - thanks for the info & photo.

I'll be stealing your idea and adding one of those to my tool kit to go along with the "Mayhew #415-5/16 5/32 PT Center Punch" that Larson (RIP) used/recommended.

I just called DD tech support, who then consulted their warranty manager, about this and here is there response. For reference, I was interested as I own 2 of their 2014 Mk18s and 2x 2017 V4S's.

They pulled a couple of their rifles and with magnets verified that their end plates are steel. I asked the tech guy if he could verify the history of this with his supervisor. The warranty administrator has been with DD since its founding and says that DD did use aluminum end plates early on for a few years, which a 2011 gun would probably have fallen in those years.

They asked me to send them pics of my serial #s (https://pistol-forum.com/usertag.php?do=list&action=hash&hash=s) and end plates, and if any are aluminum, they will replace with steel and new castle nuts / staking, as the rifles have a lifetime warranty.

They recommended that anyone who is concerned contact their warranty dept to discuss, and they will replace any aluminum end plates with steel at no cost to the user.

[theJanitor]

So my sling came off the rifle this weekend. Luckily, I caught it before it hit the concrete. I thought that I didn't seat the QD in the socket well, so I stuck it back in, without much thought, and drove on. Well, it came off again, and I managed to catch it the second time too. At that point my QD needed some inspection. When I got to look at it, I realized the actual QD section of the RE plate came un-swaged from the RE plate.

Unfortunately, I don't know the brand.

[theJanitor]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20201006/7c81bacafe821ae13daeca970d78cbef.jpg


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[Casual Friday]

So my sling came off the rifle this weekend. Luckily, I caught it before it hit the concrete. I thought that I didn't seat the QD in the socket well, so I stuck it back in, without much thought, and drove on. Well, it came off again, and I managed to catch it the second time too. At that point my QD needed some inspection. When I got to look at it, I realized the actual QD section of the RE plate came un-swaged from the RE plate.

Unfortunately, I don't know the brand.

I've had QD sling hardware failure in the past. My 6933 hit muzzle down so hard it wedged a chunk of gravel in the birdcage that I wasn't able to dislodge with anything I had on me.

BCM and Magpul QD hardware have yet to fail me so I stick with them.

[tango-papa]

So my sling came off the rifle this weekend. Luckily, I caught it before it hit the concrete. I thought that I didn't seat the QD in the socket well, so I stuck it back in, without much thought, and drove on. Well, it came off again, and I managed to catch it the second time too. At that point my QD needed some inspection. When I got to look at it, I realized the actual QD section of the RE plate came un-swaged from the RE plate.

Unfortunately, I don't know the brand.

Suggested source for a replacement - the IWC is a one piece deal.
I've had one on my work rifle for several years with no issues.

https://www.impactweaponscomponents.com/product/qd-end-plate-rl-by-impact-weapons-components/