CCW GP/K/L frame vs single stack auto, why?

[awp_101]

I need to state this up front. I'm asking this strictly to try and understand the thought process behind carrying a roughly G19 size revolver as a primary in an urban environment. There is no snark or "you're doing it wrong" intended or implied.

I've got a 3" GP that I occasionally think about getting a holster for but then I look at it and wonder why wouldn't I pack a 13+1 compact M&P9 with a second mag instead?

I know there are some here who carry K frames and similarly sized revolvers as their primary CCW and I've seen a few mention it's an option when necessity dictates. Barring some issue such as traveling to or through some jurisdiction where a semi can be problematic but a revolver isn't, what is the reason behind carrying something roughly the size of a G19 that only has 5-7 rounds on board when a Shield/G43/43x/48/etc gives you the same number of rounds (or more in some cases) in a smaller package.

Is it a caliber issue? Hand fit? A measurable improvement on drills?

03RN Stephanie B Totem Polar Rex G BehindBlueI's Zeke38

[BehindBlueI's]

I only carry a hammer fired gun if I'm going to carry appendix. I do not trust myself to be zero defect and want the extra layer of security against shooting myself. That means either a revolver or a Sig for me. I've tried appendix carrying a P229 and don't find it as comfortable or as concealable as a GP100 with compact grips. Some of that is almost certainly the holster I have for the P229 vs the GP100, but the combination of a longer gun with a smaller handle seems to work pretty well for me.

I have been considering getting a holster for the P220 and seeing how that would work.

I think there are advantages to a revolver and advantages to a magazine fed pistol, but I also think that they are mostly a wash for any real world application I'm likely to use them in off duty.

[Rex G]

I need to state this up front. I'm asking this strictly to try and understand the thought process behind carrying a roughly G19 size revolver as a primary in an urban environment. There is no snark or "you're doing it wrong" intended or implied.

I've got a 3" GP that I occasionally think about getting a holster for but then I look at it and wonder why wouldn't I pack a 13+1 compact M&P9 with a second mag instead?

I know there are some here who carry K frames and similarly sized revolvers as their primary CCW and I've seen a few mention it's an option when necessity dictates. Barring some issue such as traveling to or through some jurisdiction where a semi can be problematic but a revolver isn't, what is the reason behind carrying something roughly the size of a G19 that only has 5-7 rounds on board when a Shield/G43/43x/48/etc gives you the same number of rounds (or more in some cases) in a smaller package.

Is it a caliber issue? Hand fit? A measurable improvement on drills?

03RN Stephanie B Totem Polar Rex G BehindBlueI's Zeke38

“Caliber” is roughly equivalent, 0.357” versus 0.355” is insignificant. I use Speer Short Barrel .357, when I can get enough of it, in most of my .357 Mag revolvers. This load is just a bit hotter than the .38 Special +P Speer Short Barrel load, so, roughly like 9mm +P. I do carry the hotter stuff in my fully-lugged 4” GP100 revolvers, and in my longer-barreled weapons, but that is mostly to with longer-range shooting in mind.

Hand Fit: Bingo! No handgun, on this planet, fits me as well as the original-pattern, pre-Hogue GP100 grip. My Speed Sixes, and K-Frames, are very nearly as good.

Drills: If this means split times, well, no, I have not been concerned about split times, since I stopped carrying a .44 Magnum 629, which did produce seriously extended shot-to-back-on-target times, long before I heard anyone talk about “split times.” (That was March 1985; seems like a thousand years ago!) If we mean draw-and-fire drills, or transitioning between targets, well, we do have another bingo.

It is all about hit accurate and fast hit potential. For my hands, my brain, and my nervous system, connected hands and brain, nothing beats a GP100. Other Ruger and S&W revolvers are so very close. Others’ hands, brains, and nervous systems may vary, so I am not trying to convince or convert anyone else.

Notably, in these social-isolation times, I retain long-stroke DA revolvering skills much longer than Glocking skills. I have not been on a range in a very long time. I can shoot a G17 better than a G19*, and have carried both, on patrol, and off the clock, while trained-up, but would rather not defend myself, or others, with any Glock, right now. I fired a few .38 wadcutters, in a remote area, where legal, recently. (I wanted to keep the noise low, therefore the wadcutters.) I have plans to go to a better area, and train more, this week.

*I actually mothballed my G19 pistols, shortly after my final active-duty qual, which was in late 2017. The heel of the grip frame does not meet the the “heel bone” of my hand, so they are less-stable, which vexes my aging right thumb/hand/wrist. A G17 is an “orthopedic” Glock. My G19X may well be gentle enough, too, when I am able to get to shoot enough rounds to confirm it.

[Rex G]

I should add that I am not a die-hard sixgunner. My first pistol was a 1911, in 1982 or 1983, at which time I though revolvers were quaint relics. I had to learning DA revolver skills, in late 1983 and early 1984, while attending the Houston Police Academy, and then had to carry only DA revolvers, during my first year of sworn service, so, was motivated to train diligently. Revolvers grew on me.

So, I like both auto-loaders and revolvers. :)

[SCCY Marshal]

I can conceal a K-frame with less printing than anything in the GLOCK 19 size range. A snub-nosed K will hide better than a G26 on the belt and just about as well as a J or LCR. Using a Hi-Grip, my combined round butt model 10 snub plus 2x2x2 pouch on opposite sides appendix print less than a G43 or S&W Shield.

The revolver also has an excellent trigger, sights that work for me, and takes spare ammunition that can be carried in a number of ways from loose rounds to strips to loops to pouches to speedloaders. Reloading an auto confines me to a large, steel Pez dispenser. So I'm more likely to have one or two reloads on me and less likely for the cylinder to pop open than a magazine to wind up popped loose.

But really, I just like revolvers and have chosen to go back to one on the belt for at least a while. I've found differences in drill times to be more a function of weapon fit, trigger, sights, and carry method than auto versus revolver. Particularly given my strong preference for DAO triggers.

[Rex G]

I can conceal a K-frame with less printing than anything in the GLOCK 19 size range. A snub-nosed K will hide better than a G26 on the belt and just about as well as a J or LCR. Using a Hi-Grip, my combined round butt model 10 snub plus 2x2x2 pouch on opposite sides appendix print less than a G43 or S&W Shield.



The outer rear corners of the slides of striker-fired double-wide pistols are my concealment nemesis. A revolver with a small-spur hammer, or spur-less hammer, hides so much better, on my person.

[Wingate's Hairbrush]

Because:

1) I'm the most comfortable with handling a revolver (first learned on one).

2) I prefer the more forgiving nature of a hammer-fired DA trigger when carrying IWB all day every day, including around the house, which I always do.

3) It's statistically hugely unlikely I'll ever need to draw; if I do, it's even more unlikely I'll need to fire; and if I do, it's even more even more unlikely I'll need more rounds than a revolver carries.

No one approach covers all possible risks, but in my quiet, normal life, a revolver more than suffices.

[OlongJohnson]

It was when I finally got an AIWB K frame holster and tried it that I decided I wasn't so enthusiastic about K frames. For me, it's largely the thickness, but also the weight. I don't have issues printing the gun, it's the belt going around the holster that sticks out in front of me at the waist line like a 1980 MGB with its rubber bumpers. It just looks wrong in a weird and noticeable way. I had to work and work to get the overall thickness of the system down, even with a semi. I could pick up another 100-150 thousandths of thinness by dropping from a USPc to a 3953, but I'm not convinced at this point that it's worth giving up half the ammo to get there.

Could probably say the same about a P365XL or G48, but the Glock grip angle screws me up compared to every other semi I have, and I won't carry a single-action with no safety, which is essentially what the Sig striker action is. I will probably mess with the 80% frame that puts a Sig grip angle on a G48 upper when it becomes available.

I love my GPs, but the case for me carrying them is as an outdoor gun where open carry is acceptable, in a leather strong side OWB holster.

[Totem Polar]

I need to state this up front. I'm asking this strictly to try and understand the thought process behind carrying a roughly G19 size revolver as a primary in an urban environment. There is no snark or "you're doing it wrong" intended or implied.

I've got a 3" GP that I occasionally think about getting a holster for but then I look at it and wonder why wouldn't I pack a 13+1 compact M&P9 with a second mag instead?

I know there are some here who carry K frames and similarly sized revolvers as their primary CCW and I've seen a few mention it's an option when necessity dictates. Barring some issue such as traveling to or through some jurisdiction where a semi can be problematic but a revolver isn't, what is the reason behind carrying something roughly the size of a G19 that only has 5-7 rounds on board when a Shield/G43/43x/48/etc gives you the same number of rounds (or more in some cases) in a smaller package.

Is it a caliber issue? Hand fit? A measurable improvement on drills?


There’s a lot to unpack on this one, and I can only answer from my specific—and somewhat idiosyncratic—viewpoint, so here it goes:

Number 1, I have 10s of ks of rounds through revolvers. A lot of my early myelination is on wheelies, and all of my very limited competition was done with wheelguns. On this forum, I am a truly middle-of-the-road shooter at best, but I do run wheelies reasonably well. But that’s not enough.

Number 2, my work schedule is somewhat non-standard and seasonal, which means that during busy times, I can go 8-10 weeks without hitting the range. Of course, there are periods over the holidays and scattered throughout the summer where I can hit the range daily, if I were so interested as to want to stand in a box an punch paper every day. What this means for me is that there are times where I am basically an over-qualified sock-drawer, set-and-forget dude. It’s nice to know that if I had to, I could grab the old six-shooter and make it work, subconsciously—and that the old six shooter will go bang after 10 weeks of sitting around without my affections.

Number 3, relatedly, I spend huge amounts of my life in NPEs. So it’s nothing, or sometimes a j-frame/LCR, so it makes sense to shoot them as much as I can and make a commitment to competence with the tool. I’ve shot a lot of rounds through 5-shot revolvers.

Number 4–and this is the only one that will be controversial—I’ve still yet to find a truly reliable semi when run hard in training. I had better give an example: I had an otherwise boringly reliable gen 3 G17 that never bobbled on the range that simply wouldn’t run in my hands when I was cold, tired, and upside down with rainwater running up my nose and in the inside of my glasses. The obvious counter to that would be "yeah, how likely are you to be upside down and soaking wet in a gunfight?" I suppose that’s the big question, isn’t it. Regardless, I’m pretty sure that I can get off 5 or 6 in a grapple on the ground, because that’s one place where I had some success in moderately rough and tumble training. I’ve never had trouble with any 9mm Glock on the range—17s, 19s, 26s, 43s, 45... but in the back of my mind, I’m just not 100 percent sure under grappling pressure. OMMV on that, for sure, but that’s where I am with it.

None of the above is to suggest that anyone else should make the same choice, and swap their G19 for a vintage M65, or their G43 for an LCR—let alone suggest that a wheelgun is a good idea in a duty context, but for my situation and lifestyle, I’ve become comfortable with the idea of revolvers, mostly. Mostly.

Now, all that said, I’m currently sitting by the firebowl with a 1911. I’m not in and out of NPEs right now, and my covid-19 lifestyle currently sees me regularly rucking into black and grizzly bear territory one day, hitting the rack with the old gov’t model on nightstand duty, then doing a therapy walk in a downtown urban park with my wife the next morning, during times of admittedly very very minor local unrest. It’s not the best choice for any one of those environments, but it’s not a terrible choice either, if I don’t want to be switching it up every 24hours, and I know this one will run if I’m tired and in a weird position.

Anyhoo, OMMV, and all that.

[03RN]

I just dont think that Ill run out of ammo if i need to draw my gun.

I think its more likely that ill be walking through a parking lot or out in the woods and ill need very accurate fire. Or extremely up close and personal where 6 will do it.

I will admit that ive been considering carry autos more in the current climate where armed "protesters" are blocking intersections and highways and gathering in mass.

K frames are just more comfortable to carry and conceal better than like sized autos and better shooting than smaller ones. I can easily keep my 10x12 plate bouncing with my 66 at 30 yards. Not so much with a shield or cw9.

I like .357s because of barriers or animals. I think 9mm is just fine for edc.

I do often carry autos but when i do i remember why i prefer revolvers. And then, like yesterday when i was shooting my beretta i remember why i prefer shooting them too.

[Bucky]

While I much prefer autos, my reasoning is much like many that prefer revolvers, as opposed to the obvious capacity / reloading advantage. I shoot them way, way better. After reliability, proficiency should be the priority.

[Stephanie B]

I need to state this up front. I'm asking this strictly to try and understand the thought process behind carrying a roughly G19 size revolver as a primary in an urban environment. There is no snark or "you're doing it wrong" intended or implied.

I've got a 3" GP that I occasionally think about getting a holster for but then I look at it and wonder why wouldn't I pack a 13+1 compact M&P9 with a second mag instead?

I know there are some here who carry K frames and similarly sized revolvers as their primary CCW and I've seen a few mention it's an option when necessity dictates. Barring some issue such as traveling to or through some jurisdiction where a semi can be problematic but a revolver isn't, what is the reason behind carrying something roughly the size of a G19 that only has 5-7 rounds on board when a Shield/G43/43x/48/etc gives you the same number of rounds (or more in some cases) in a smaller package.

Is it a caliber issue? Hand fit? A measurable improvement on drills?

I've found that I can conceal a round-butt 3" K-frame better than a subcompact 9mm. (That isn't as much a hard line as before, though, as recently dropping 14# helped.)

If I was starting from zero, not having a centerfire revolver and looking for a 3" for CCW, I'd seriously consider a 3" SP101 in .327 Magnum.

To be clear, I'm not in an urban area. I do my best to avoid running afoul of the triple-stupid situation.

[SCCY Marshal]

...I will admit that ive been considering carry autos more in the current climate where armed "protesters" are blocking intersections and highways and gathering in mass...I like .357s because of barriers...

I was doing car-based stuff in a more populace area the other day. Took a page from Dagga Boy's playbook and stuffed a Highway Patrolman under my leg, loaded with full power 158 grain ammo. It was a specific supplement to my belt 10 and pocket LCR that could eat from my 2x2x2 pouch in a pinch but initially be able to shoot someone off the car with a real muzzle blast and fireball to emphasize my side of the argument.

The buddy I was meeting liked the concept and immediately called a shop to order him a longer barreled K6S. He'd already wanted one and the possible application sealed the deal. Plans to run it a bit like the F.B.I. model 13s, standardize on .38 or +p with .357 available if the situation calls for it.

[entropy]

I’ll politely toss my .02 in as well. Some real sleeper points have been made. While I think the skill set for accurately shooting a revolver is more difficult to master, I too find that that set of skills lingers much longer. Odd as that may seem. Despite the fact that I have three grown kids and I’m not planning on more, a revolver is the only pistol I will carry appendix. The shape of a snub or 3” lends itself quite nicely to it as well. Spending long periods in a vehicle visiting the above three mentioned I find the revolver produces fewer hot spots and rarely find myself squirming down the interstate making adjustments and drawing odd looks. Versatility of ammo. Although the choices in revolver calibers may be more limited than that of autos, reliability is never a factor, and the ability to swap out on a whim has its advantages. I counter the capacity issue by lifestyle, pre planning, and either an 870 or AR/AK behind the rear seat of the truck.

[Rex G]

The fastest revolver speed-loaders, that I have used, are made by Ruger and S&W. ;)

It helps that they have such large handles. :)

[WobblyPossum]

It’s a shame Dagga Boy is taking a break from the forum. This conversation would be right up his alley. I recommend listening to the P&S episodes about revolvers and non-standard defensive weapons for anyone that hasn’t yet.

[Rex G]

I am not the only writer/speaker who has pronounced the Bianchi Speed Strips to be “Slow Strips,” but, they are only slow when one does a complete reload. If one, instead, dumps the empties, then loads TWO chambers, in one move, well, THAT part IS fast.

One of the better-known real-life examples cited for adopting speed-loaders, was one of the troopers who died in the “Newhall Massacre.” One of the perpetrators sneaked closer, while the trooper was reloading, and then, as the trooper closed his fully-loaded cylinder, and looked up, the trooper was shot in the head. Had this trooper loaded two cartridges, together, and assessed, he might have seen the approaching danger, and saved his life with two shots. Ideally, of course, one keeps one’s eyes on the danger, but, it is a very human thing to looking while loading, so, “load-two-and-assess,” or “load-two-and-look” may be life-saving things to internalize, even as one strives to always scan for danger.

Edited to add: The trooper was probably equipped with cartridge loops, or a dump box, but the principle of assessing after loading two, or even one, applies to both loose cartridges, and cartridges in speed-strip-like devices.

[Half Moon]

It’s all about the tradeoffs, isn’t it? Every firearm is a compromise. The small to mid-frame revolver hits a sweet spot in the compromises I’m willing to make.

The first criteria, for my personal threat assessment, is reliability. In my experience, mechanical reliability is about equal between revolvers and semi’s. But then there is feed cycle reliability. Today’s semi-autos are more reliable than they’ve ever been but feed cycle is still an issue. Most civilian fights are close range affairs. Add in the real possibility of entanglement and the revolver edges out the semi.

Holstering. With a long, heavy trigger pull and the ability to ride the hammer into the holster, hammer-fired DA handguns are probably safer than anything short of an unloaded handgun. Especially with AIWB this is a major bonus. There’s a reason Glock Leg is a thing.

Dry Fire. DA handguns allow you to practice off the range in the closest approximation to real operation of the handgun. Because DA is amenable to this I have more practice reps with revolvers than anything else. Shoot what you carry, carry what you shoot.

Grip tuning. Especially with Smith’s, there is a almost an infinite number of grip variations available to suit any hand.

Ammunition flexibility. With no reliance on the cartridge to operate the firearm in any given caliber you can tune ammunition to mission – very light to very heavy.

Now what are you giving up?

First and foremost, capacity. The question is do you need the capacity at your threat profile. If I was a LEO or a soldier I’d absolutely want the highest capacity handgun I could reasonably carry. Though, under those circumstances, my first plan would be a longarm. (Reading some Marine Raider guys I thought it was interesting they stopped carrying their M-9’s in Afghanistan pretty quickly to make room for more rifle ammo) I’m not a LEO or soldier though. While anecdotal, civilian shootings likely follow the rule of three – Less than three seconds, less than three shots fired, less than three yards range. Claude Werner has done some interesting analysis of NYPD off-duty shooting incidents that tend to bear this out.

Reload speed. Again if the rule of three holds this is probably not an issue anyways. It is something I diligently practice though I will never reload a revolver as fast as a semi-auto.

Weight. This is somewhat untrue. If you are willing to take the compromise of lower powered ammunition there are alloy framed K, L, and Colt’s that all come in under 20 ounces.

Bulk. This is mostly in the cylinder. K’s are definitely pushing it for me with the beltline bulge. On the other hand a round butt really doesn’t print the way a lot of semi-auto grips do.

Didn’t mean to write a book length ramble but there you go… 😊 At the end of the day it’s all personal choice and what you’re comfortable with.

[Half Moon]

Edited to add: The trooper was probably equipped with cartridge loops, or a dump box, but the principle of assessing after loading two, or even one, applies to both loose cartridges, and cartridges in speed-strip-like devices.

Dump Pouch. Just read this a couple weeks back:

https://www.amazon.com/Newhall-Shooting-Enforcements-Deadliest-Shootings/dp/144024099X

The book has flaws but still an interesting and easy read.

[jetfire]

For me, the choice to carry a GP100 instead of a similarly sized semi-auto is entirely an affectation. It's not better, the gun doesn't hold as many rounds, etc. But I like GP100s, and I enjoy shooting them. So as a practical choice there's almost no reason in an urban environment to choose a six shooter instead of a modern semi-auto pistol.

But that's okay, because I like revolvers.

[Adam]

For me, the choice to carry a GP100 instead of a similarly sized semi-auto is entirely an affectation. It's not better, the gun doesn't hold as many rounds, etc. But I like GP100s, and I enjoy shooting them. So as a practical choice there's almost no reason in an urban environment to choose a six shooter instead of a modern semi-auto pistol.

But that's okay, because I like revolvers.

Man I really don't want to say this: I agree 100% with Caleb. :D

We could dissect the minutia of why A or B is "better" but the reality is we carry what we do, at least in part, because that's what we want to carry. I wouldn't carry some gun I didn't like because the internet (or even experts) had decided it was the best thing to carry. Just carry your gun and be able to use it well. If some dude pulled out their carry gun and it was a red dot Gucci Glock and another pulled out an old worn out S&W 19, my response would be pretty much the same: cool.

[Stephanie B]

If some dude pulled out their carry gun and it was a red dot Gucci Glock and another pulled out an old worn out S&W 19, my response would be pretty much the same: cool.

My gut feeling is that I'd expect the guy with the old Model 19 to be the one to watch.

[Adam]

My gut feeling is that I'd expect the guy with the old Model 19 to be the one to watch.

That gun has seen things...

[45dotACP]

I was surprised by how easy it is to carry a 4" GP100 with the compact grips. Also everyone needs a DA wheelgun, if for no other reason than because if you can shoot one well, you have a solid foundation in trigger control.

Anyhow, I wouldn't hesitate to carry my GP if needed and here's why.

Most of my life isn't spent making enemies with people who hate me intensely enough to try very hard to kill me even going so far as to participate in a gun battle or ambush me. There are some outlier likelihoods that I'll find myself embroiled in some sort of attack staged by jihadis or antifa or the boogaloo bois or whatever, but the most likely situations I'd see in my life would be a criminal threatening my life for some sort of financial gain. That means the overwhelming likelihood is that the concussive blast of a .357 mag going off is going to reset his priorities. Said criminal wants to live to spend what he's threatening my life for. He's got a family to support, a dealer he owes money to and choir practice to attend so he can turn his life around. Some sort of cannon going off when he expects compliance and fear reverses the equation.

As an aside, I recall a conversation speculating that the .357 had such a strong reputation for stopping power because the blast and noise it made was jarring. I might be misremembering the conversation.

So for most cases, almost any gun is gonna do it for me, because it won't take many rounds for said criminal to decide that they don't intend to risk their life for my wallet, keys or phone.

I do carry a modern semi auto however, because it is easier to find holsters, ammo is cheaper and therefore building live fire skill is cheaper, and if I do run into the aforementioned spree killing incident and, by outrageous bad luck, I end up having to trade shots with a dedicated, armed assailant, then I can stay in the fight longer. That is always my last consideration, but it is still there.

Sent from my moto g(6) using Tapatalk

[Dave T]

I'll throw in my $.02 worth to hopefully add a little to the discussion. I started my handgun life with SA revolvers, then became acquainted with DA revolvers when I joined the Sheriff's Dept. Reading Jeff Cooper (G&A magazine) got me interested in the 1911 and the 45 ACP so when my department authorized semi auto carry (April of 1974) I qualified with a MKIV Series 70 Government Model. I carried one model or other of Colt 1911 for the next 25 years. But...

As a young deputy I got interested in competition: practical pistol before IPSC; and NRA PPC revolver. That refined my DA trigger stroke and as others have said, that skill seems to stick, much better than the Glock trigger stroke and even the vaunted 1911 trigger press. I've always found it strange that I shoot a DA revolver better deliberately, and the semi auto better fast. For that reason I continued carrying semi autos even after retirement.

Recently I've been plagued with worsening arthritis in my hands, and after shoulder reconstruction surgery on the strong side, general upper body weakness. What once was a powerful grip with both hands cannot now manipulate the slide on either a Glock 30S or a G36. DB's comments in the now famous "Snuby interview" got me thinking about DA revolvers. I've continued to play with them all these years, even specializing for a while collecting N-frame Smiths. All the while I carried 1911s and Glocks I was shooting revolvers in steel matches, IDPA and even the occasional IROC event.

My interest in handgunning has always leaned strongly toward the practical side which caused me to give up serious competition years ago and look at it as just an interesting and varied way to practice. As others have stated I'm not convinced I need 15 rounds to defend myself and my wife from goblins. And in my dotage I think the deliberation revolvers require of me is not a deterrent to safety but a benefit. And, with my challenged grip I can perform the manual of arms with any DA revolver better than I can most semi autos.

My current carry gun is a S&W 386 Night Guard. I put an adjustable rear sight on it because the fixed rear didn't shoot close to POI with my chosen ammo, Buffalo Bore's +P 38 Spl 158g SWCHP-GC . I also had my gun smith install an Apex Tactical DA only bobbed hammer. Another compromise because of my poor hand strength is I don't carry full Magnum ammo. The buffalo Bore stuff is about all I can handle and the short ejector on the NG's 2.5" barrel works better with the shorter cases.

When I can get to the range I practice deliberate upper center chest and head shots, mostly at 10 yards and under but occasionally at 15 and 20. Yes I'm slower than I used to be, but that applies to autos as well. Would I be better armed with a higher capacity 9mm? Maybe but given my own circumstances I am more comfortable with the revolver and my capability with it.

Dave

[Zeke38]

I learned revolvers in 1965 thank you Uncle Sam. Taught revolvers to LEOs for 14 years, then helped Agency transition to Glock (fiscal decisions carry the day). Wake me up in the middle of the night, I will have a Kimber K6 2" very shortly in my hands. On the street look for a small 9mm either a P9 Kahr or a Sig365XL. Depends on the social situation, for fun and just shooting it will be a revolver in an assortment of calibers. I also do training with a pair of Kimber K6s. The aforementioned 2" and a 3" DA/SA.

[BehindBlueI's]

As an aside, I recall a conversation speculating that the .357 had such a strong reputation for stopping power because the blast and noise it made was jarring. I might be misremembering the conversation.


That is a theory of mine which I know I've discussed on here before. It is just a theory, of course, as I'm not sure how you'd scientifically test psychological stops. It makes sense to me, though, as just looking at the numbers and terminal ballistics in a vacuum it doesn't make much sense without incorporating the psychological impact of being on the receiving end.

[Tennessee Jed]

I've found that a k-frame with the right grip, or a GP100 with the compact grip, absolutely will not print when I carry it in an IWB holster, no matter which way I bend, twist, or lean, and no matter what shirt I'm wearing that day. Complete concealability, with no printing, is very important for me.

Additionally, as others have stated above, shooting a good double action revolver is much more natural for me than any other type of trigger. After I got a feel for it, I can shoot any of my revolvers cold, with no warm up, much more accurately than any of my semi-autos.

Finally, I don't own a single semi-auto that hasn't malfunctioned at least a few times over the years. Granted, those malfunctions were usually due to user error, but I still can't help but wonder, in my worst possible moment, am I confident I'll have a good-enough grip, won't accidentally leave a thumb dragging on the slide, won't accidentally hit the mag release, etc.?

[deputyG23]

Now with all this civil foolishness going on locally I am more inclined to carry the issue pistol (G23) off duty especially since I am not travelling.
Once we feel comfortable enough to travel to MD to visit my son, my travel companions will be my 3" M64 NY-1 and my 442. They hide better on the belt and certainly in the pocket than any of my compact or sub Glocks and my wife can use them in a dire emergency if needed.

[Tamara]

That is a theory of mine which I know I've discussed on here before. It is just a theory, of course, as I'm not sure how you'd scientifically test psychological stops. It makes sense to me, though, as just looking at the numbers and terminal ballistics in a vacuum it doesn't make much sense without incorporating the psychological impact of being on the receiving end.

Darryl and Wayne have talked about this as well, and speculated that it might be the reason for 9BPLE's rep, too.

[Whirlwind06]

I was a revolver guy because I was poor. A beat up but very functional model 10 and j frame were my only handguns for about 5 or 6 years. I had a couple Lee single stage presses to make practice ammo. When I got a gp100 out of layaway I was so happy, finally I had a 357!

I think that is something that gets lost in these discussions at times, the initial cost of a revolver can be higher but the support gear is lower and speed loaders seem pretty durable imo.

We are doing better now, have a few glocks, beretta 92 and budget 1911s.

Don't carry revolvers much now, still shoot them quite a bit. Still more accurate with them then my semi's. If someone starts doing rmr milling on revolvers that would pretty cool.

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

[awp_101]

Thanks for the responses so far, lots of good information! It really does boil down to risk management and the compromises we're comfortable with.


That gun has seen things...
Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion?

[Totem Polar]

Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion?

That’s 2019, not model 19...

;)

[Tamara]

That gun has seen things...

Or its previous owner has and the current owner just doesn't take care of his stuff. ;)

[mmc45414]

roughly the size of a G19
I think when we (and I include myself) compare sizes and come to these conclusions we tend to compare a length/height/width bounding box analysis, but if you look at displacement volume, like if you dunked two blue guns in a bucket of water, the tide would rise a lot more with the auto. Comparing my 3" SP101 to my (most frequently carried) 9c, yeah they would pretty much require the same size storage box, but that slender tapered grip just disappears when enveloped into my pasty soft midsection. This makes it a frequent choice when helping our friend (that lives in a kinda sketchy place) work in her yard. I might sweat through my shirt, but do not want to antagonize anybody by obviously printing (I am not there to serve a warrant, I am there to cut down brush). This also means I am not just going to just be standing erect with my (sweaty) shirt perfectly draped over that big grip above my belt. IMO/E a compact revolver is just easier to hide deeply, but this one is still long enough and heavy enough (about the same) to connect with.
56248


I only carry a hammer fired gun if I'm going to carry appendix. I do not trust myself to be zero defect and want the extra layer of security against shooting myself.
I am glad somebody else said this, but yeah, I do not love having a striker gun appendix. I may not use The Big Guy quite as often as I used to, but I still use my femoral artery every day, and will admit I am more comfortable enjoying the advantages of AWIB with revolvers. Sorta like some folks say they only carry a Glock because they only will go appendix with the Striker Control Device. Not hating on it, just saying it is outside my comfort zone of trusting myself. Just ordered a JMCK AWIB for my new 3" 686+, but that is just for fun (I think...).


like a 1980 MGB with its rubber bumpers.
Gads, why did you have to remind me of that shit?!?!?!? :D

[45dotACP]

Darryl and Wayne have talked about this as well, and speculated that it might be the reason for 9BPLE's rep, too.Yeah, I was reading Tales of the Stakeout Squad and recall a shooting they got into where a dude dropped like a stone with nary a scratch, screaming that he'd been shot, after one of the SOU guys cut loose with an Ithaca 12 gauge.

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[awp_101]

I recall hearing somewhere, maybe one of the P&S modcasts with DB and jlw, psychological stops were somewhat frequent specifically with the 125gr .357 loads thanks to the fireball and concussion. Or maybe it was in a post by @BehindBlueI’s instead.

[Rex G]

I recall hearing somewhere, maybe one of the P&S modcasts with DB and jlw, psychological stops were somewhat frequent specifically with the 125gr .357 loads thanks to the fireball and concussion. Or maybe it was in a post by @BehindBlueI’s instead.

Both.

Embrace the sound and fury! You know it is coming, and inoculate yourself by having trained.

By the Nineties, the fireball was was gone, from the better duty/defensive loads, due to flash-retardant powders, but the sound and fury is still there.

Edited to add: You will not blind yourself, with the modern powders in the better 125-grain full-pressure loads. The concussion, in a confined space, might be a different story, so take that into account, if inside your home or place of business.

[JonInWA]

While I generally prefer, and generally carry semi-autos, I also dedicate around two months for revolver carry-in my case, a Ruger GP100 4" and/or a Ruger Security Six 4" (and a Ruger Blackhawk 4.6", but that's another story). The GP-100 is zeroed for, and carried with full-house 158 gr .357 magnum cartridges; the Security Six is zeroed for and carried with 125 gr .38 Special +P cartridges. Matches/practice/match use with both guns is carried out with analog loadings/bullet weights to my carry loads for each revolver (in .357, Sellier & Bellot 158 gr ball or SJHP; in .38 Special +P, Remington/UMC 125 gr SJHP .38 Special +P).

Another factor is sights-I personally much prefer a revolver with an adjustable rear sight, suitably rugged (in my case either OEM Ruger or Millett, with an exceptionally visible front sight blade-in my case, Millett Orange Bars on both revolvers). While not necessary er se, I find myself preferring a white outline rear sight blade also. Conversely, on most semi-autos, I much prefer a good fixed sight set-up.

Revolvers remain a viable tool, albeit one with some distinct limitations one needs to plan around; capacity and bulky reloading devices (speedloaders) or svelte and extremely slow reloading devices (Speed Strips).

Relatively speaking, I'm quite comfortable carrying a revolver for daytime EDC, usually with at least 2 reloads. At night, it's another story. Several years ago, here on p-f we had a lengthy thread here discussing the limitations of revolvers for carry at night/in shifting or contrasty light, primarily due to inherently limited capacity and the more complex mental and mechanical skills needed to effect timely and viable reloads.

Reliability for me between MY semi-autos and MY revolvers is a wash-if they're not reliable, they're either at the gunsmith to resolve or down the road. All of my handguns are vetted and reliable. Regardless, a competant shooter need to incorporate malfunction drills into training, and know how to expeitiously resolve with both types of firearms.

Revolvers can have a very smooth rythmic action, leading to inherently good shooting (assuming, of course, basic mechanical and shooter accuracy). Most "real world" shooting situations are resolved with fewer shots than a revolver cylinder carries, as repetitively documented by FBI stats. While that doesn't eliminate the viable need for high-capacity semi-autos, it doesn't mean that the world is at an end if you're using a revolver.

Using a revolver can induce you to greater attention to accuracy and shooting mechanics for each shot, instead or consciously or unconsciously relying on capacity (which can arguably lead to a "spray and pray" mentality, inducing overly egregious and unnecessary ammunition expenditures on a given target) (or becoming overly complacent situationally).

In my experience, grip selection is much more critical with a revolve than it is with most semi-autos, particularly modern semi-autos. I'm firmly in the school of using Ruger Compact grips with my GP100-the ergonomics (for me) and shootability with them is dramatically improved-and with them a medium to large revolver is FAR easier to carry concealed. Suprisingly, the OEM large GP-100 grips simply don't work well at all for me; they uncomfortably and inefficiently cam my hand up on the backstrap tang; while I expected them to be superior to the Compact grips when firing full-house .357magnum cartridges, in empirical use that simply wasn't the case-the Compact grips were more ergonomically effective and comfortable. Again, this is with me. My Security Six wears a set of customized Trausch grips, which seem to combine well the best features of a customized revolver and semi-auto grip features.

A sub-argument on the revolver vs semi-auto capacity issue is to keep in mind that in some restrictive states/countrys, the differences may be irrelevent-e.g, in states where capacity is limited to 10 or 8 rounds. Then you just go with the best tool for your job/scenario.

Arguably, a good DAO or LEM semi-auto could bridge the gap between the two. I won't argue that, especially with my known affinity for my Beretta 92D and HK P30L LEM ( A Beretta 92D in particular is noted for it's magnificent, classic Smith & Wesson-like triggerpulls out of the box, with no modifications {but Wilson Combat/LTT components/LTT TJIB significantly gild the lily...}). But a good revolver (or two...) definitely has a place in my world, and probably always will. And not just for historical appreciation or re-creation reasons.

Best, Jon

[gato naranja]

Relatively speaking, I'm quite comfortable carrying a revolver for daytime EDC, usually with at least 2 reloads. At night, it's another story. Several years ago, here on p-f we had a lengthy thread here discussing the limitations of revolvers for carry at night/in shifting or contrasty light, primarily due to inherently limited capacity and the more complex mental and mechanical skills needed to effect timely and viable reloads.

That was one of the advantages of a semiautomatic pistol enumerated by H.W. McBride in "A Rifleman Went To War" (a book which might seem like ancient history even to people on P-F), and one of the - IMHO - more convincing ones. McBride was a big fan of the 1911 in combat, though he confessed to sometimes suspecting he could shoot a revolver better.

Except for J-frame or SP101 snubbies, I don't feel any pressing need for revolvers anymore. That being said, I keep coming back to thinking that I should probably get myself an off-the rack 4" stainless GP100 just to have around as a sort of bombproof general purpose and utility handgun that I can disassemble/reassemble without too much difficulty.

[gato naranja]

I think when we (and I include myself) compare sizes and come to these conclusions we tend to compare a length/height/width bounding box analysis, but if you look at displacement volume, like if you dunked two blue guns in a bucket of water, the tide would rise a lot more with the auto. Comparing my 3" SP101 to my (most frequently carried) 9c, yeah they would pretty much require the same size storage box, but that slender tapered grip just disappears when enveloped into my pasty soft midsection.56248

I used to have a 3" SP101 which turned out to be a bit too big for me as a CCW gun but would have made for a dandy plinker, "kit gun" and woodswalking pistol had it had adjustable sights. The most pleasant modern revolver I have used in those latter roles was a 4" .38/.357 SP101 with a checkered hardwood Hogue "one finger groove" monogrip. It was surprising how svelte the crazy thing was for an all-steel 4" revolver... I laughed at it until I picked it up and discovered how nice it felt in my paw; it had an 1851 Navy liveliness to it.

Alas, the grass seemed greener on the semiauto side. Maybe I need an intervention.

[OlongJohnson]

Speaking of interventions, you've just lit up my itch for a 4.2-in SP in .327. Again.

[45dotACP]

I'm going to posit a theory. This one about the seemingly higher accuracy exhibited by revolvers during shootings. This theory is unrelated to the notion that you know your gun has less ammo, and I think that is the MAIN reason, but hear me out here.

What does the majority of the guys running a USPSA rig want? A slide that cycles in a way that doesn't slam forward, causing a dip in the front sight before the next round is fired.

Most people shoot an open gun better than a carry optics gun. Why? Well one reason is because the open gun has a sight that stays fixed and is non reciprocating, while the CO slide you must account for some movement. There are of course, other reasons for the open gun being easier to shoot, but all things being equal but the sight position relative to the slide, the open gun still comes out on top.

There's even a few guys who run sights on their limited guns that are fixed to the barrel, not the slide. Of course the rear sight still moves so this is of questionable use to me.

But these are all based on the idea that if you get on the front sight sooner, get the front sight on the target sooner, and get the sights aligned sooner and you can shoot sooner. A revolver's sights never reciprocate. The thing is, the DA trigger necessarily slows you down compared to a single action trigger, unless you're REALLY fast.

To me, that seems to mean that the sights get back on target sooner and you have more time to align them correctly, even as you work through the trigger press, which again, gives you more time to get the sights correctly aligned on target.

It's probably a crazy idea, but I believe it plays a role.


Sent from my moto g(6) using Tapatalk

[gato naranja]

Speaking of interventions, you've just lit up my itch for a 4.2-in SP in .327. Again.

I do tend to enable purchases.

Unless the smaller bore really adds weight over the .38, those ought to be nice to handle. I have never actually fired one of the .327 SPs, though I have been next to one on a range; it got my attention.

[03RN]

My buddy and i were shooting together the other day. He bought a 3" PC M19 comp and then a jmcustom aiwb holster after seeing mine about a year and a half ago. We were both working at a range/shop together and shot a lot together. He's still working at a shop but we haven't been able to shoot much together since i became a nurse.

He's also a Marine and between the 2 of us with our nearly identical setups i would feel pretty confident on taking on any threat.

Both of us were just drawing and shooting. Doubles, triples, doing reloads from the belt ringing steel out to 30 yards. It was a beautiful sight

Nobody or no guns id rather ride the river with.

We both pulled out an auto. Him a flux braced g34 with rmr and me my m9a1 compact. Just a couple mags but neither spent much time with them.

[SCCY Marshal]

...Finally, I don't own a single semi-auto that hasn't malfunctioned at least a few times over the years. Granted, those malfunctions were usually due to user error, but I still can't help but wonder, in my worst possible moment, am I confident I'll have a good-enough grip, won't accidentally leave a thumb dragging on the slide, won't accidentally hit the mag release, etc.?

I'm leafing through my copy of The Snubby Revolver and all of those concerns are documented in various fight summaries. Also contact shots, both successful with wheelguns and pushing the slide out of battery with a GLOCK. Several shots taken within clothing, as well. There's a lot of food for thought in this relatively short book.

Anyone on the fence about the pricetag, as was I, should just knuckle down and get a copy while I'm on the topic.

[alohadoug]

I'm leafing through my copy of The Snubby Revolver and all of those concerns are documented in various fight summaries. Also contact shots, both successful with wheelguns and pushing the slide out of battery with a GLOCK. Several shots taken within clothing, as well. There's a lot of food for thought in this relatively short book.

Anyone on the fence about the pricetag, as was I, should just knuckle down and get a copy while I'm on the topic.

Or, you can join "I'm with Roscoe" (google it or find it on Facebook) and get the new updated version (yes we dragged Ed out of retirement) when its released.

https://www.imwithroscoe.com

[BehindBlueI's]

I'm going to posit a theory. This one about the seemingly higher accuracy exhibited by revolvers during shootings. This theory is unrelated to the notion that you know your gun has less ammo, and I think that is the MAIN reason, but hear me out here.

What does the majority of the guys running a USPSA rig want? A slide that cycles in a way that doesn't slam forward, causing a dip in the front sight before the next round is fired.

Most people shoot an open gun better than a carry optics gun. Why? Well one reason is because the open gun has a sight that stays fixed and is non reciprocating, while the CO slide you must account for some movement. There are of course, other reasons for the open gun being easier to shoot, but all things being equal but the sight position relative to the slide, the open gun still comes out on top.

There's even a few guys who run sights on their limited guns that are fixed to the barrel, not the slide. Of course the rear sight still moves so this is of questionable use to me.

But these are all based on the idea that if you get on the front sight sooner, get the front sight on the target sooner, and get the sights aligned sooner and you can shoot sooner. A revolver's sights never reciprocate. The thing is, the DA trigger necessarily slows you down compared to a single action trigger, unless you're REALLY fast.

To me, that seems to mean that the sights get back on target sooner and you have more time to align them correctly, even as you work through the trigger press, which again, gives you more time to get the sights correctly aligned on target.

It's probably a crazy idea, but I believe it plays a role.


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I think it's because they shoot fewer rounds. Close range is highest probability. Each subsequent round is less likely to hit as people start to move, find cover, distances open, etc. Even if everything was exactly the same the group who fired fewer times would hit more based on that alone.

Hits on 1 shot only incidents might be telling.

[Trooper224]

In my opinion, which is worth what you're paying for it, the difference in hit percentage in LE work is largely due to training. Not better training necessarily, but different training. The truth is this: in the old days we weren't better shots, we just had less rounds to miss with. We like to think we were steely eyed pistoleros, but the fact is, like now there were those who cared about shooting and those who didn't. I think one of the key differences is, we moved away from the "shoot and access" style of training and into the "shoot until the threat is down" mindset. A lot of the old training was based around the "double tap and access, then double tap again if needed" style of shooting. With high capacity guns we moved away from that towards the "hose it till it quits squirming" mindset. I make no claim as to which method is better or worse, but I do think it has an effect in terms of hits and misses per rounds fired. So, hit percentages really haven't changed significantly, but the number of rounds fired may be skewing the math a bit. The fact that striker fired guns are easier for the typical cop to reach a minimum level of proficiency with might also act as something of a leveler statistically speaking.

Of course, that has little to do with the choice to carry one over a G19.

[TGS]

The fact that striker fired guns are easier for the typical cop to reach a minimum level of proficiency with might also act as something of a leveler statistically speaking.

I wonder about that, these days.

The common notion is that DA guns take more training to become good with, and SFAs are easier to reach proficiency with.

Thing is, our aggregate qual scores are lower after we switched to the Glock 19. Our agency, as a whole, scored better with the SIG P229. It's been a couple years now, and it's still holding true....and it makes me question the "common wisdom". The only people who it actually seems to benefit (score wise) are women with small hands who needed to use two fingers to pull the DA trigger. I'd be interested to know about qual scores before-and-after from other agencies.

If the state of qualification courses and their rigor compared to prior decades says anything, it'd certainly support the notion that cops of yesteryear were better shots. Even the Border Patrol, an agency that is known for being decent shots, has dropped their 50 yard course of fire and it's only optional now.

What happened at your Trooper job over the decades with regards to scores and the rigor of the qual?

[Trooper224]

I wonder about that, these days.

The common notion is that DA guns take more training to become good with, and SFAs are easier to reach proficiency with.

Thing is, our aggregate qual scores are lower after we switched to the Glock 19. Our agency, as a whole, scored better with the SIG P229. It's been a couple years now, and it's still holding true....and it makes me question the "common wisdom". The only people who it actually seems to benefit (score wise) are women with small hands who needed to use two fingers to pull the DA trigger. I'd be interested to know about qual scores before-and-after from other agencies.

If the state of qualification courses and their rigor compared to prior decades says anything, it'd certainly support the notion that cops of yesteryear were better shots. Even the Border Patrol, an agency that is known for being decent shots, has dropped their 50 yard course of fire and it's only optional now.

What happened at your Trooper job over the decades with regards to scores and the rigor of the qual?

When we talk about training, we have to remember that we're not just talking about scores. Striker fired guns (and semi-autos in general) require less dexterity to load and manipulate than a revolver. SF guns also require less finger strength than a DA revolver. So, taking all that into consideration, it's far easier to get folks trained up to minimum competency with an SF gun and that's all administrators really care about.

The standard of qualification decreased during my career, meaning it was far easier when I left than when I showed up. Our quals always went beyond the state mandated minimum and still do. There was a reason why a KBI agent once commented to me at a shooting scene, "I'll say one thing for you troopers, when you shoot someone they stay shot." The first thing that went was a scored qualification, replacing it with a pass/fail format. That was done entirely for liability concerns. The next was replacing the target with scored areas with the FBI Q target, wherein anything within the nice big bowling pin was good. Once upon a time there were courses of fire at the 100 and 50 yard lines, but those were dropped pretty early in my career and 25 yards became the maximum. I don't know if the old course produced better shooters, but making it less demanding did nearly eliminate people needing more than one try to qualify.

My experience was that the percentage of real shooters vs amateurs in uniform has remained pretty much the same. The ones who cared about shooting excelled regardless of the course and the ones that struggled would have done so regardless of the course or the weapon used. Revolver or auto really didn't make a difference, except on paper.

[awp_101]

It’s a shame Dagga Boy is taking a break from the forum. This conversation would be right up his alley. I recommend listening to the P&S episodes about revolvers and non-standard defensive weapons for anyone that hasn’t yet.
For those who didn't get a program at the front gate, P&S #166 is Revolver Bias with Hizzie, jetfire and Chuck Haggard. #197 is Snubbies! with Dagga Boy and Chris Baker of Lucky Gunner (is he a member here?). I re-listened to Revolver Bias today and started re-listening to Snubbies before leaving work. I'll finish it up tomorrow.

Between the 2 podcasts, I was reminded of the 3" LCR models. Next time I'm at the range I'll have to see if they have any in the rental case and give them a spin if they do. I get the impression either the .357 3" LCRx or 4" SP101 could be a potential Goldilocks for me.

[BehindBlueI's]

Chris Baker of Lucky Gunner (is he a member here?).

He was, but I haven't seen him post for quite awhile.

[awp_101]

He was, but I haven't seen him post for quite awhile.

Thanks! Maybe someone could tag him if they know his username...

[BehindBlueI's]

Thanks! Maybe someone could tag him if they know his username...

I would, but I don't recall what it was.

[awp_101]

Me either. I tried searching the members list but Chris Baker isn't there.

Where oh where has our Lucky Gunner gone?
Where oh where can he be?

[BehindBlueI's]

Me either. I tried searching the members list but Chris Baker isn't there.

Where oh where has our Lucky Gunner gone?
Where oh where can he be?

I can shoot him a text, I suppose. Anything in particular you want to ask him?

[Totem Polar]

LGChris

[awp_101]

I can shoot him a text, I suppose. Anything in particular you want to ask him?
I dunno...a free case of ammo shipped to me every month?:confused:

Nothing in particular, I just thought this might be up his alley if he was lurking around here and had more info since the last time he did anything on small to medium revolvers.

[03RN]

56280

[Half Moon]

For those who didn't get a program at the front gate, P&S #166 is Revolver Bias with Hizzie, jetfire and Chuck Haggard. #197 is Snubbies! with Dagga Boy and Chris Baker of Lucky Gunner (is he a member here?). I re-listened to Revolver Bias today and started re-listening to Snubbies before leaving work. I'll finish it up tomorrow.

Between the 2 podcasts, I was reminded of the 3" LCR models. Next time I'm at the range I'll have to see if they have any in the rental case and give them a spin if they do. I get the impression either the .357 3" LCRx or 4" SP101 could be a potential Goldilocks for me.

For what it's worth, you may want to consider the longer barrel if you're thinking actual belt carry. With AIWB I've found revolver barrels to 4" make no difference to concealibity and in some circumstances are actually even more comfortable than a snub of the same frame size.

Here's Skeeter Skelton's thoughts on barrel length, including 'belly carry':

https://web.archive.org/web/20190801011415/http://darkcanyon.net/The%20Long%20&%20Short%20Of%20Sixgun%20Barrels.htm

When I went to pull up the article I found the owner of darkcanyon.net has sadly passed and the site is no more. It lives on in the Wayback Internet Archive :-(

[Navin Johnson]

56280

is there a link? from what i can tell is this early in the transition to semi by non gun people?

[Hizzie]

It’s a shame Dagga Boy is taking a break from the forum. This conversation would be right up his alley. I recommend listening to the P&S episodes about revolvers and non-standard defensive weapons for anyone that hasn’t yet.

Wealth of responses from DB and others here https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?14306-Revolver-article-in-MSW after my Revolver Relevance article.

[03RN]

is there a link? from what i can tell is this early in the transition to semi by non gun people?

No, im sorry. I lost the file when my old phone died. This pic was a screenshot that was backed up with my pics

[BehindBlueI's]

is there a link? from what i can tell is this early in the transition to semi by non gun people?

http://www.theppsc.org/Staff_Views/Aveni/OIS.pdf

[03RN]

Thanks

[entropy]

Yes, thanks. That’s some solid reading right there...

[Zeke38]

Thank you BehindBluel's, what a treasure trove of information. I became distracted perusing it, good stuff.

[Tamara]

Also contact shots, both successful with wheelguns and pushing the slide out of battery with a GLOCK. Several shots taken within clothing, as well.

Wanna know how I can tell that someone hasn't been to a Shivworks class?

[SCCY Marshal]

That one can keep an auto from tying up through technique and assure proper execution as best as possible by quality practice after mindful instruction wasn't the point. Nor was the point to dismiss increased retention concerns that result from allowing the gun to float out toward the adversary as it does with contact shots. The quoted post just came to mind while flipping through a book.

[03RN]

For what it's worth, you may want to consider the longer barrel if you're thinking actual belt carry. With AIWB I've found revolver barrels to 4" make no difference to concealibity and in some circumstances are actually even more comfortable than a snub of the same frame size.

I carried my 4" m19 for a year before i got my m66 and then cut an inch from the jmcustom aiwb holster.

It went from -comfortable- to -I dont even know its there.-

[BehindBlueI's]

56511

56512

GP100MC

I definitely shoot it better then my Shield and it's less likely I shoot myself in the dick.

[awp_101]

GP100MC

I definitely shoot it better then my Shield and it's less likely I shoot myself in the dick.
A thumb safety model would solve half of that equation.

I know, I know, the safety on a Shield is minuscule but it’s there...:o

[BehindBlueI's]

A thumb safety model would solve half of that equation.

I know, I know, the safety on a Shield is minuscule but it’s there...:o

Yeah, no thumb safeties for this guy. Especially the little nub on the Shield.

[awp_101]

Yeah, no thumb safeties for this guy. Especially the little nub on the Shield.

That’s right, I forgot about your no TS rule.

[DocSabo40]

56511




What kind of holster are we looking at here? AIWB for revolvers seems like slim pickings.

[BehindBlueI's]

What kind of holster are we looking at here? AIWB for revolvers seems like slim pickings.

I bought it used here on PF. JMCK Wing claw 2.0.

[HCM]

A thumb safety model would solve half of that equation.

I know, I know, the safety on a Shield is minuscule but it’s there...:o


Yeah, no thumb safeties for this guy. Especially the little nub on the Shield.

The thumb safety on the shield is shit.

I’ve never understood why no one makes an extended versions like the one on the M&P 22 Compact.

[Tamara]

I'm just not really enthused about fully-cocked single action blasters for the AIWB role, thumb safety or no. I''ve made my peace with a Glock and the SCD, but I'd really rather have a DA hammer gun for that job.

I've never actually auditioned the 3" RB K-frame in that role, and given the adjustable belt loop on the Bianchi Pistol Pocket, I really should.

[mmc45414]

I’ve never understood why no one makes an extended versions like the one on the M&P 22 Compact.
I keep wishing there was a lower replacement for the M&Ps that would have it fall under my thumb just like the 1911 has since 1911, but there are probably only two or three of us out there thinking this.

[mmc45414]

I've never actually auditioned the 3" RB K-frame in that role, and given the adjustable belt loop on the Bianchi Pistol Pocket, I really should.
I would urge you to give it a try at least, I have the simple JMCK AIWB for my 3" SP-101 (nearly the exact same size as your K) and it is a winner.

[45dotACP]

I'm just not really enthused about fully-cocked single action blasters for the AIWB role, thumb safety or no. I''ve made my peace with a Glock and the SCD, but I'd really rather have a DA hammer gun for that job.

I've never actually auditioned the 3" RB K-frame in that role, and given the adjustable belt loop on the Bianchi Pistol Pocket, I really should.I trend towards the same notion, with making my peace with the 1911, because the grip safety adds an additional layer of safety and my reholstering process involves thumb safety up, releasing the grip safety and putting my thumb between hammer and slide.

But I vastly prefer a hammer fired DA or TDA firearm for appendix, because the length of the trigger press and external hammer has a value of its own. Thumb on hammer, gun in holster is easier than the 1911 song and dance.

Sent from my moto g(6) using Tapatalk

[Trooper224]

I'm just not really enthused about fully-cocked single action blasters for the AIWB role, thumb safety or no. I''ve made my peace with a Glock and the SCD, but I'd really rather have a DA hammer gun for that job.

I've never actually auditioned the 3" RB K-frame in that role, and given the adjustable belt loop on the Bianchi Pistol Pocket, I really should.


For me, AIWB would be all about a TDA pistol, or a revolver.

[Cecil Burch]

I'm just not really enthused about fully-cocked single action blasters for the AIWB role, thumb safety or no. I''ve made my peace with a Glock and the SCD, but I'd really rather have a DA hammer gun for that job.

I've never actually auditioned the 3" RB K-frame in that role, and given the adjustable belt loop on the Bianchi Pistol Pocket, I really should.


I have been running a 2" M10 in a JM AIWB holster for a while now and it is superb. I am actually taking it to Frank Glenn this week to get the hammer bobbed and turned into a DAO, as well as a couple of extras Darryl advised me to do.

With the 2", I am getting as much accuracy as I can handle, and it comes out of the holster with a really short and tight movement. I don't know that I will go full time with it when it comes back, but I don't know that I won't either.

[Totem Polar]

I've never actually auditioned the 3" RB K-frame in that role, and given the adjustable belt loop on the Bianchi Pistol Pocket, I really should.

A 3” RB K is scandalously easy to conceal AIWB. Way out of expectation for the size and considerable weight. JMO. Granted, I’m a skinny dude, but a 4” NY-1 with pgs grips in JMCK George printed less than a G26 on me. Grain of salt and all that; I’m aware that we are built differently.

[Stephanie B]

Well... {scuffing toe} ... I do carry a LW Commander from time to time AIWB in a JMCK holster. But, and this may be a big but, the holster has a belt clip and not loops. I put the gun into the holster beforehand. With the foam wedge, it conceals nicely.

But so does a 3" K frame and the 3" gun is more comfortable. When the weather was colder, I'd sometimes carry a 4" Model 10 and it was no problem to do that. That's not something I'd care to do now, since it's been getting hotter and more humid.

[awp_101]

The thumb safety on the shield is shit.

I’ve never understood why no one makes an extended versions like the one on the M&P 22 Compact.

If they did I’d be all over one.

[Totem Polar]

I am delighted to defer to Stephanie B on this one, despite the agreement. :)

[awp_101]

Anybody have a 3” K and 3” LCR to compare sizes?

[Whirlwind06]

Pulled my model 10 out of the safe today. Haven't shot it in a few years now it seems. Mostly shoot my Rugers now days.

12 rounds at 16 yards double action. Funny that I shoot my glock 41 better than this now. I guess I need more trigger time with it. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200630/7927d4dcfed943dbc3278725ee45c29f.jpg

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[Tamara]

I trend towards the same notion, with making my peace with the 1911, because the grip safety adds an additional layer of safety and my reholstering process involves thumb safety up, releasing the grip safety and putting my thumb between hammer and slide.

But I vastly prefer a hammer fired DA or TDA firearm for appendix, because the length of the trigger press and external hammer has a value of its own. Thumb on hammer, gun in holster is easier than the 1911 song and dance.

With me, it's not just the holstering/drawing, but the fact that I've got a weapon with all the energy required to discharge already stored up and waiting to be released. Yes, the 1911 has a safety that blocks the sear from moving, but knowing that there's an engagement surface only .020" or .019" high standing between a weapon at rest and a falling hammer makes me queasy. (FWIW, this came up in a conversation with Bruce Gray, and it makes him queasy, too, so I reckon I'm in good company there.)

It's the reason I won't carry an LCP II in the left breast pocket of my winter coat, while I'll happily carry a J-frame or Bodyguard .380 there. When I'm sitting in the driver's seat of my car in winter, whatever is in that pocket is pointing straight down at the top of my thigh: The LCP II is ready to discharge while the 432PD is essentially inert.

[Bucky]

With me, it's not just the holstering/drawing, but the fact that I've got a weapon with all the energy required to discharge already stored up and waiting to be released. Yes, the 1911 has a safety that blocks the sear from moving, but knowing that there's an engagement surface only .020" or .019" high standing between a weapon at rest and a falling hammer makes me queasy. (FWIW, this came up in a conversation with Bruce Gray, and it makes him queasy, too, so I reckon I'm in good company there.)
.

To be fair, even though the engagement surface of the single action notch is rather slight, the half cock notch has more engagement should the hammer slip. That said, I do struggle with those same thoughts regarding stored energy even though I have a great fondness for my EDC X9 as a carry piece.

[Tamara]

To be fair, even though the engagement surface of the single action notch is rather slight, the half cock notch has more engagement should the hammer slip. That said, I do struggle with those same thoughts regarding stored energy even though I have a great fondness for my EDC X9 as a carry piece.

I'm honestly more worried about a broken sear nose, although I'll admit it's like worrying about meteor strikes. It's deep in my lizard brain and not a reasoned thing at all.

If I go back to carrying 1911s for a bit, which I imagine I will at some point in the future, it'll be in my VM-2 probably.

[TheNewbie]

With me, it's not just the holstering/drawing, but the fact that I've got a weapon with all the energy required to discharge already stored up and waiting to be released. Yes, the 1911 has a safety that blocks the sear from moving, but knowing that there's an engagement surface only .020" or .019" high standing between a weapon at rest and a falling hammer makes me queasy. (FWIW, this came up in a conversation with Bruce Gray, and it makes him queasy, too, so I reckon I'm in good company there.)

It's the reason I won't carry an LCP II in the left breast pocket of my winter coat, while I'll happily carry a J-frame or Bodyguard .380 there. When I'm sitting in the driver's seat of my car in winter, whatever is in that pocket is pointing straight down at the top of my thigh: The LCP II is ready to discharge while the 432PD is essentially inert.


Is this true of the LCP Gen 1?

[JRV]

Is this true of the LCP Gen 1?

LCP is a DAO trigger system. The LCP II is a pre-cocked version of SAO with a trigger dongle.

[Tamara]

Is this true of the LCP Gen 1?

Original LCP's, like the Kel-Tecs they're copied from, are quasi-double action in that the mainspring is already mostly cocked and the trigger operates the hammer. It's like LEM or ParaOrd's LDA.

So the short answer is that, no, the action is not fully tensioned and ready to fire.

[Tamara]

LCP is a DAO trigger system.

A true DAO would have a restrike capability; the LCP relies on the slide travel to pre-load the mainspring.

[JRV]

A true DAO would have a restrike capability; the LCP relies on the slide travel to pre-load the mainspring.

Pseu-DAO (TM)

[03RN]

With me, it's not just the holstering/drawing, but the fact that I've got a weapon with all the energy required to discharge already stored up and waiting to be released. Yes, the 1911 has a safety that blocks the sear from moving, but knowing that there's an engagement surface only .020" or .019" high standing between a weapon at rest and a falling hammer makes me queasy. (FWIW, this came up in a conversation with Bruce Gray, and it makes him queasy, too, so I reckon I'm in good company there.)

It's the reason I won't carry an LCP II in the left breast pocket of my winter coat, while I'll happily carry a J-frame or Bodyguard .380 there. When I'm sitting in the driver's seat of my car in winter, whatever is in that pocket is pointing straight down at the top of my thigh: The LCP II is ready to discharge while the 432PD is essentially inert.

Lol, i find it kinda ironic that Mr. Gray is made queasy by that when he went to great lengths to support the P320.

I have the same sort of lizard brain thought process on 5 shot revolvers. I just dont like carrying them. Even guns like the M69 I just cant do it. Logically I know there isnt much that last shot would accomplish that the first 5 didn't.

[Tamara]

Lol, i find it kinda ironic that Mr. Gray is made queasy by that when he went to great lengths to support the P320.

We were specifically discussing AIWB.

[gato naranja]

With me, it's not just the holstering/drawing, but the fact that I've got a weapon with all the energy required to discharge already stored up and waiting to be released.

Some times that weighs heavier on my mind than others, and I am not sure why it takes the form it does.

I could tote all kinds of ironmongery in open-carry rigs (particularly in old-school OWB holsters) while hunting or plinking and not get a bit queasy; it was was not until I got my CCW permit that I gradually became reluctant to carry certain combinations in certain circumstances. For example, there have been a number of pistols I would carry in a crossdraw or shoulder rig that if carried AIWB would have bothered me a lot, and I never did feel comfortable with horizontal shoulder rigs of any sort.

To be honest, the revolver is something I essentially gave up on by middle age but am returning to late in life because - rightly or wrongly - it seems less likely to release stored energy at the wrong time. It is probably also why I have gravitated to decocker Berettas in semiautos.

[45dotACP]

I'm honestly more worried about a broken sear nose, although I'll admit it's like worrying about meteor strikes. It's deep in my lizard brain and not a reasoned thing at all.

If I go back to carrying 1911s for a bit, which I imagine I will at some point in the future, it'll be in my VM-2 probably.

Could always just run a series 80...iffin you're the heresy type [emoji41]

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[Bucky]

Could always just run a series 80...iffin you're the heresy type


Post reported! :mad:

:p:p:p

[Bucky]

I'm honestly more worried about a broken sear nose, although I'll admit it's like worrying about meteor strikes. It's deep in my lizard brain and not a reasoned thing at all.

If I go back to carrying 1911s for a bit, which I imagine I will at some point in the future, it'll be in my VM-2 probably.

Yes, it's a highly, highly unlikely thing, but it could still happen from a physics point of view.

To show how out of wack my lizard brain is, I was pocket carrying a P938 cocked an locked (in a proper pocket holster). We went to see Grim Reaper in a bar not much bigger than my family room. Their amplification however, seemed to be enough to play an arena. As ridiculous as this might sound, I got this nagging thought in the back of my head wondering if sound concussion could become so excessive as to trigger something. Sometimes those silly thoughts are hard to expunge even after you've reasonably disclaimed them. Gun never went bang, so you are all welcome for me testing that theory for you all. :p

I'm sure half of you will think I'm nuts for thinking sound can discharge a gun, while the other half will think I'm nuts for going to see Grim Reaper. :)

[Stephanie B]

Yes, it's a highly, highly unlikely thing, but it could still happen from a physics point of view.

To show how out of wack my lizard brain is, I was pocket carrying a P938 cocked an locked (in a proper pocket holster). We went to see Grim Reaper in a bar not much bigger than my family room. Their amplification however, seemed to be enough to play an arena. As ridiculous as this might sound, I got this nagging thought in the back of my head wondering if sound concussion could become so excessive as to trigger something. Sometimes those silly thoughts are hard to expunge even after you've reasonably disclaimed them. Gun never went bang, so you are all welcome for me testing that theory for you all. :p

I'm sure half of you will think I'm nuts for thinking sound can discharge a gun, while the other half will think I'm nuts for going to see Grim Reaper. :)

Sound, maybe not. Vibrations induced by.... maybe?

[Lester Polfus]

Yes, it's a highly, highly unlikely thing, but it could still happen from a physics point of view.

To show how out of wack my lizard brain is, I was pocket carrying a P938 cocked an locked (in a proper pocket holster). We went to see Grim Reaper in a bar not much bigger than my family room. Their amplification however, seemed to be enough to play an arena. As ridiculous as this might sound, I got this nagging thought in the back of my head wondering if sound concussion could become so excessive as to trigger something. Sometimes those silly thoughts are hard to expunge even after you've reasonably disclaimed them. Gun never went bang, so you are all welcome for me testing that theory for you all. :p

I'm sure half of you will think I'm nuts for thinking sound can discharge a gun, while the other half will think I'm nuts for going to see Grim Reaper. :)

I went to a Motörhead concert once. If I'd been carrying a 1911 AIWB I bet my kids would never have been born.

[awp_101]

Could always just run a series 80...iffin you're the heresy type [emoji41]
56707



To show how out of wack my lizard brain is, I was pocket carrying a P938 cocked an locked (in a proper pocket holster). We went to see Grim Reaper in a bar not much bigger than my family room. Their amplification however, seemed to be enough to play an arena. As ridiculous as this might sound, I got this nagging thought in the back of my head wondering if sound concussion could become so excessive as to trigger something. Sometimes those silly thoughts are hard to expunge even after you've reasonably disclaimed them. Gun never went bang, so you are all welcome for me testing that theory for you all. :p

I'm sure half of you will think I'm nuts for thinking sound can discharge a gun, while the other half will think I'm nuts for going to see Grim Reaper. :)
Of all the things I thought I might learn, the fact that Grim Reaper is still around and touring didn't make the list...


I went to a Motörhead concert once. If I'd been carrying a 1911 AIWB I bet my kids would never have been born.
I saw them in 2009 and it's hands down my favorite concert ever. Lemmy didn't look or sound like he'd lost anything even though he was damn near 65.

56708

[awp_101]

Here's an on topic question (sort of): If you were looking at a 3" LCRx, would you go for the .357 model or .38 +P version? I see Ruger lists both but most places only have the .38 Special +P model in stock.

[Half Moon]

Here's an on topic question (sort of): If you were looking at a 3" LCRx, would you go for the .357 model or .38 +P version? I see Ruger lists both but most places only have the .38 Special +P model in stock.

I can't remember enough details to be really useful but I've seen at least a couple long term reviews calling the mechanical reliability of the .38 LCR's into question while the .357 LCR's have been good to go. Wish I could give something meatier but might be worth a google. My .02 is the Smiths are better trigger wise than pretty much every Ruger DA I've ever handled. In J's especially after a few hundred dry snaps to smooth them out. Then again I can be a trigger snob so grain of salt...

[mmc45414]

Here's an on topic question (sort of): If you were looking at a 3" LCRx, would you go for the .357 model or .38 +P version? I see Ruger lists both but most places only have the .38 Special +P model in stock.
Probably three factors, IMO:

Cost - the 357 is $90 more list, and seems like they tend to be around the whole $90 street price more, and to me that seems like a lot. This probably has to do more with popularity and volume discounting than production costs, though I would also expect that casting aluminum is probably simpler than casting stainless. Part of my LCR interest is they seem like a bargain, but nothing seems to be a bargain right now anyway, so dunno. If they made a 3" in 9mm I would probably kick in the $90.

Weight - This is the biggest factor, IMO. They are lightweight guns, but 21.3oz (empty) isn't really all that damn light. The 15.7oz 38 just might be able to get by in elastic waistband pants for a walk in the park or those long road trips when I want to be comfortable, but want to be packing when I stop.

Availability - There are lots of things that are sold out right now. I think the 357 LCR is probably a low volume product that might be a while before the make another batch.

[03RN]

I would go with the .357. Just for long term durability and a little more weight for shooting. I would not shoot full power magnums through it.

I was just on rugers website. Looking at the 3" guns had me thinking that a tlr6 type light might beable to be made integral into the barrel shroud.

[Whirlwind06]

I had a Ruger LCR .357 with the full recoil tamer grip on it was manageable. But that was like 5 years ago I might have a different opinion about it now. [emoji16]

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[03RN]

They just fit

[JRV]

I was just on rugers website. Looking at the 3" guns had me thinking that a tlr6 type light might beable to be made integral into the barrel shroud.

Underbarrel WMLs are tricky with revolvers. How would that light be activated with a traditional DA revolver grip? Run the gun thumbs forward? Cylinder gap makes exercising controlled light activation during shooting a no-go.

I’d hate to run a WML where my only options are “constant on” or “you have to use your trigger finger for momentary.”

[TGS]

Cylinder gap makes exercising controlled light activation during shooting a no-go.

Why?

[JRV]

Why?

Thumbs and/or WML levers/buttons don’t jive with tiny bits of hot, fast-moving gasses and crap. A TLR-6 style light would require a thumb going beyond or remaining under the cylinder gap to keep a momentary switch activated during shooting.

.38 in a well-timed gun with a nicely-cut forcing cone? I can’t imagine that being a problem. .357? Out of a factory production gun, assembled in volume by people paid to do that assembly quickly? I like my thumb too much for that.

[TGS]

Thumbs and/or WML levers/buttons don’t jive with tiny bits of hot, fast-moving gasses and crap. A TLR-6 style light would require a thumb going beyond or remaining under the cylinder gap to keep a momentary switch activated during shooting.

.38 in a well-timed gun with a nicely-cut forcing cone? I can’t imagine that being a problem. .357? Out of a factory production gun, assembled in volume by people paid to do that assembly quickly? I like my thumb too much for that.

When does this actually start becoming a problem in reality? Thumbs forward has never caused injury to me with any of the 9 Ruger, S&W, or Colt revolvers I've owned. I shot .357 just the other day. I could feel a little warmth, nothing that would cause concern.

jetfire has shot a few hundred thousand rounds thumb forward through revolvers and still has both thumbs, no injuries.

[Tamara]

My .02 is the Smiths are better trigger wise than pretty much every Ruger DA I've ever handled. In J's especially after a few hundred dry snaps to smooth them out. Then again I can be a trigger snob so grain of salt...

The out of the box trigger pull on the LCR is light years better than a factory J-frame trigger on every sample I've tried.

[Tamara]

When does this actually start becoming a problem in reality?

Most famously? With the .460XVR.

With .38's the worst that's likely to happen is maybe you get tattooed with some powder grains, if that.

[Hizzie]

When does this actually start becoming a problem in reality?

460/500 S&W are crazy calibers. IIRC the gasses on the 460 ate the first run up and Smith had to mirror polish the face of the forcing cones after that.

When your cylinder goes out of time and you start shaving jacket/lead can cause you problems too.

[Half Moon]

The out of the box trigger pull on the LCR is light years better than a factory J-frame trigger on every sample I've tried.

I could very well be wrong on the LCR's. My experience is limited to dry firing a single LCR and a single LCRx at a gunstore when I was briefly interested in them. Neither felt all that special but it's a very limited sample and I think was at least a year or two back and maybe more. My frame of reference with a more solid base is with RH, Super RH, and SP101's.

[JRV]

When does this actually start becoming a problem in reality?

When you shoot a .357 mag, or larger, that is slightly out of time, and a piece of jacket, lead, or unburnt powder goes into your thumb?

All my sources are anecdotal: it happened to me twice with two different older Model 19s. I managed an indoor range for several years and had to put a few dozen bandaids on the thumbs of people shooting .357s on up.

Might be a luck issue, might be a handsize/thumb length issue, might be a combo. jetfire has plenty of video evidence of his ability to run a wheelgun, but I don’t think he can palm a basketball. Bigger mitts get more of the thumb closer to the crappy spot.

It’s never a serious “injury” unless you’re talking about the big game magnum rounds. It’s more like a slide-bite issue: people occasionally get a little bloody when they shoot guns that don’t fit their large and/or fat hands. Still, based on a sample size of a crapload of people and a crapload of guns, hot-crap-shooting-off-forcing-cones is a thing. It’s not a major hazard, but it’s completely avoidable.

[Clusterfrack]

I'm probably the last person who should comment here because I only own one DA revolver (LCR 9mm), but here goes. Ergonomically, I hate revolvers. I shoot autos far better in every measurable way. Malfunctions in modern autos can generally be cleared quickly and efficiently. That's not the case for revolver issues. Capacity: I can't imagine choosing a full size revolver over a 15+1 G19 or P-07 for self defense against humans. It's well-established that it often takes multiple pistol hits to stop a single human threat, let alone multiple. I would feel handicapped if I was forced to carry a revolver instead of my P-07.

Against large animal threats, I now carry a G20 with hardcast, or my P-07 with Lehigh XP instead of my .44 SA revolver, for the same reasons as above.

However... I have become convinced by threads here on P-F that a snubby has an important place in the CCW toolkit. I now carry the LCR 9 instead of a G43 or LCP in a non-permissive environment, and in some other situations as well.

[L-2]

For me and my thinking:

-I'm now an old, retired cop, who has a few revolvers and try to maintain some amount of proficiency since it's a skill I don't want to lose.
-Listen, I don't care what anybody else decides to carry or not, if they decide to carry at all.

-Logically, I should carry something with which I'm most proficient; meets my concealment parameters; and perhaps has the most ammo I can reasonably carry. I'll typically carry one extra mag for a reload. I usually be carrying a G26gen3 (12+1 & 10 reload); or G19gen5 (15+1 & 15 reload); I also have smaller and larger Glocks from which to choose, but just don't carry too often (G43 or G17gen5). I'll sometimes instead carry one of my full-size 5" 1911s (8+1 & 8 rds for a reload).

-For optional S&W revolvers (seldom carried however) a 640 Pro (5 & 5x2 reloads); 66-2 (6 & 6x2 reloads); or a 586 L-Comp (7 & 7 reload). The ammo capacity difference is markedly less. Due to this ammo cap difference, I might even be carrying a backup gun, as in my 642-1 (yet another 5 rounds). I'll usually be loaded with .38 Special +P. I don't see much benefit in .357 Mag for my perceived anti-personnel/self-defense use. I do own .357 Mag ammo should, for some reason, change my mind or use up my ammo inventory.

-For other folks, they may be more comfortable or accurate with a revolver. It might be what's available and only what they own. They may have difficulties manipulating a slide or reloading due to age, strength, training (or lack thereof), or technique. I'm fairly sure the younger cops I worked with prior to retiring never even held or shot a revolver and the opposite may have been true when I'd started out.

Edited to add an add'l thoughts:
-When I was working, for a backup, I left the J-frame S&Ws for the Glock 43. The G43 had two more rounds; I shot it faster and a bit more accurately with it. It didn't carry as well for me on my ankle, but carried just as well in a body-armor holster.

-Already mentioned somewhere in this thread, as a LEOSA-50-State-ok-to-carry, I do need to be aware of ammo capacity limits, should I be visiting such a state; and this could affect what I decide to carry, too.

[Salamander]

There are some good examples above of selecting a carry rotation based on one's personal requirements/preferences/constraints. Here's one more example.

I'm in California, and while I'm in a relatively gun friendly part of the state I'm still bound by state law. So 10 round magazine limits, all of the newest semi-autos are off roster and thus only available to non-LE at an absurd premium on the used market, and I'm limited to a carry rotation of three, listed by serial number on my permit. I try to look at the bright side and think about how much money that's saved me over the years, but it does seriously constrain the options. Right now the rotation is a pair of HK's, one full size and one compact; and a J-frame. ironically it's the J-frame that often gets carried in higher risk urban environments, because someplace like Oakland or LA can also be a NPE.

As a consultant my projects can be anywhere in the US and occasionally overseas; I tend to be on one or two large projects for a few months to a few years and then move on to what's next. Project sites can be in inner city urban areas, in upscale suburbs, or in remote backcountry. Occasionally all in the same week, although in practice there tend to be patterns which require re-assessing carry needs periodically. Sometimes it's a big infrastructure construction site with lots of people around, but other times I'm the first guy in to figure out what permits are going to be needed.

About a week ago I carried the USP 45 on a remote site where stray dogs and wildlife are potential issues. So I was covered for anything from black bear to pit bull. That's easy in rainy season under a jacket, this time it ended up being a warm day and any reasonably observant person would have noticed that bulge under my shirt at 3:00. This was in a rural pro-2A county and I'm pretty sure the lady at the gas station was the only one who noticed, but I wouldn't try that in the Bay Area.

Out of curiosity, after getting home that night I tried a GP-100 MC under that same shirt. It was pretty much invisible. Not any smaller really, more a matter of shape. Curves instead of square edges and without the square ends of the slide and the grip at the same height above the belt, it just disappeared.

When my permit comes up for renewal in about a year and a half, I'm going to think about replacing at least one of the semi's with a revolver. I'll likely be semi-retired by then and with more control over where I spend my days; I live in a small low crime community where the last shooting of anything other than a small furry varmint was sometime in the 1970s; and I'll still be doing backcountry hikes.

I already sometimes carry a revolver when in the backcountry in Oregon or other states where there are no constraints; or on National Forest land where I can open carry.

Why? In the end, it comes down to the fact that I enjoy the craftsmanship of pre-lock, pre-mim S&W revolvers, and they're fun to shoot. Not entirely rational, but then not everything always needs to be.

[jetfire]

jetfire has plenty of video evidence of his ability to run a wheelgun, but I don’t think he can palm a basketball.

Excuse me sir57078

[Totem Polar]

Tangential, but: lead shavings from magnum rounds are no joke. Some years back, I was burning through some old WWB 110 grain .357 in my 65-3 3” RB, and some shavings came back off the forcing cone/gap and into my thumb. It bled like a stuck pig. I’m on my way to the restroom to wash up, dripping blobs of blood, and the range owner comes out of the office. There was .75 seconds of tension before I said “shavings; absolutely my problem and not yours.” He arched his eyebrows, and I went on to rinse up.

Those flecks of SJHP took, maybe, 6 or 7 months to work to the surface?

All that said, all my thumbs are still present and functional. :)

[JRV]

Excuse me sir57078

You’re the white Larry Bird. Paws like Jordan.

[awp_101]

Excuse me sir
57078

It’s masterful bon mots such as that which have put him where he is today...

[03RN]

Excuse me sir57078

NCAA womens basketball ???

;) I know for a fact I cant palm a basketball so its no judgement from me.

[kihnspiracy]

Alot of us in our mid 50's learned how to shoot with wheelguns. I know many guy's who jumped on the hi cap band wagon in the 90's and never looked back. Some of us still like to stay proficient with revolvers. Including carrying them as a ccw gun.

[SCCY Marshal]

Went out with my usual waistband Model 10 snub and pocket LCR. With each, I ran the following on a QIT target with 6" circular high center chest and 3"x5" headbox laid out. B-27 X ring shaded in the middle of the chest as an aiming spot:

4yd - Draw to one chest shot, reholster. Draw to pair in chest, reholster. Draw to Mozambique, reload the Model 10 from a pocketed Safariland. In the case of the LCR, reholster then draw to pair in headbox, reload with pocketed Speed Beez.

7yd - From low ready, up to sinfle chest shot, open cylinder, blindly spin, arrest cylinder, close it up, back to low ready. Repeat until empty but only spinning cylinder after each live round goes off. Reload in same manner.

7yd - Repeat previous but from the draw. In case of the K-frame, reload with speed strips.

25yd - One cylinder slowfire from standing position. Brush guns, reload carry ammo, head home.

Then felt like a bike ride so stuffed my 4" Model 10 AIWB in a kydex rig and got take-out dinner before turning back homeward. Saw a library box so traded an old pulp novel for a copy of Anton the Dove Fancier and read a section while eating at a park bench in the sun. Carrying a steel revolver on a bicycle, the universe had a sense of humor. The first story contained the following:

"...Soon a policeman arrived on bicycle, followed by Mr. Joseph on his puffing, sweating mare. The policeman talked briefly to my grandmother and immediately set to work...Every time he bent down his leather pouch would slide from his shoulder and get in his way. Slowly he would move it back into place, cursing under his breath.

The policeman was tall. He had graying hair and wore high, shiny black boots and a navy blue uniform with a tunic over it. Around the tunic he wore a wide leather belt; connected to it, crossing his chest, was a narrower one. Across his back he cartied a rifle on a sling with a massive chamber and a highly polished stock. A large metal eagle, the emblem of the Polish Republic, was pinned to the center of his round navy blue cap..."

Ignoring a certain meth-addled Austrian belligerent harshing the mellow a few years later, the chapter absolutely enchanted me with the old ways. I could have carried some polymer auto. But the slight heft of oiled steel and worn wood on my belt just seemed to fit as an integral part into the fresh air, clouds floating over, sun warm on my skin, and tale of a small Jewish boy staying at a country cottage with his grandmother as they ate and socialized around an old wooden table on the veranda overlooking farm fields and swimming pools in the brook.

Beyond ease of ball and dummy to stretch range time during a period of low ammo availability, is it an objective case for the medium frame carry revolver? No, but it's enough for me.

[Tod-13]

Because:

1) I'm the most comfortable with handling a revolver (first learned on one).
<snip>

For my wife, this. She's good with rifles, but semi autos, since she's been concentrating on her PhD and post-doc, are more of an unknown. She feels more confident with a revolver, since it is all mechanic-clock-work motion and it is easier for her to manipulate. (She's short, with hands way too small for a Glock 19.) Except, she started on a semi auto.