Voter Suppression in the Digital Age

[HCM]

I know it’s Breitbart but bear with me...

https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2020/06/21/pollak-after-tiktok-2020-election-is-about-china/


Democrats and Republican Never Trumpers are celebrating Chinese interference in the U.S. presidential election.
On Saturday night, Trump opponents revealed that they had used viral videos on the Chinese-owned social media platform TikTok to urge young people to flood the Trump campaign website with fake requests for tickets to the president's rally in Tulsa, Oklahoma.
The result: predictions for hundreds of thousands of fans, but a half-empty BOK Center stadium.
Regardless, the Tulsa fiasco is also a sign that China is the central issue in the 2020 campaign.
Now, in 2020, TikTok has emerged as an effective tool for dirty tricks...

56192

Contrast this with:

Trump campaign rejects claims that TikTok, K-Pop fans sabotaged rally: 'Don't know what they're talking about'

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/trump-campaign-rejects-idea-that-tiktok-k-pop-fans-sabotaged-rally-dont-know-what-theyre-talking-about


After top Democrats gloated that teenage activists had sabotaged turnout at President Trump’s Tulsa, Okla., rally on Saturday, the Trump campaign fired back within hours, saying that media organizations are complicit in spreading false narratives about the event -- and that protesters and the coronavirus were the real culprits.

Regardless of which one of these narratives are correct, they beg the question: What are the effects of digital voter suppression foreign and domestic and how can it be countered ?

[TAZ]

The biggest lesson to be learned. Young people are stupid and easy to influence. Which is exactly where politicians want their subjects.

On the other side of the coin: isn’t there something about counting chickens or something.. that has been applicable fir like generations? Fir the DJT rally thing that means $$ in hand from folks is better than requests. If those trump opponents put up $$ to buy up tickets and not show, they are more retarded than I thought. These rallies are fund raisers.

Wonder if last weeks DNS attacks had anything to do with stifling a campaign from generating donations. Wonder if that needs to be reported as a donation in kind to someone??

[blues]

If that is indeed from AOC, (I have no idea and I will not be investigating), but if it is...what further proof is necessary that she doesn't represent the interests of the American people, democracy, fair play or the Constitution?

I'd cross the street to bypass vermin like her.

[Joe in PNG]

Remember when it was considered low down and evil for Nixon to use 'dirty tricks"?

[HCM]

If that is indeed from AOC, (I have no idea and I will not be investigating), but if it is...what further proof is necessary that she doesn't represent the interests of the American people, democracy, fair play or the Constitution?

I'd cross the street to bypass vermin like her.

Assuming she is correct, and knowing that Tik-Tok is a PRC /Chicom platform, the question then is: Was this a domestic operation by the Bernie bro wing of the Democrats, was it a Chicom operation AOC is merely taking credit for or is there actual collusion ?

The fourth option is that this was an “organic” grassroots operation that AOC et al are taking credit for.

[blues]

Assuming she is correct, and knowing that Tik-Tok is a PRC /Chicom platform, the question then is: Was this a domestic operation by the Bernie bro wing of the Democrats, was it a Chicom operation AOC is merely taking credit for or is there actual collusion ?

The fourth option is that this was an “organic” grassroots operation that AOC et al are taking credit for.

I don't know the answer...but I know that none of those options would be a shock, (to me), and that they need to be ferreted out, exposed and dealt with, both in the courts as well as the court of public opinion.

Other options may present themselves as time goes on...technological, etc.

[Wondering Beard]

If that is indeed from AOC, (I have no idea and I will not be investigating), but if it is...what further proof is necessary that she doesn't represent the interests of the American people, democracy, fair play or the Constitution?

I'd cross the street to bypass vermin like her.

It is from her.



Assuming she is correct, and knowing that Tik-Tok is a PRC /Chicom platform, the question then is: Was this a domestic operation by the Bernie bro wing of the Democrats, was it a Chicom operation AOC is merely taking credit for or is there actual collusion ?

The fourth option is that this was an “organic” grassroots operation that AOC et al are taking credit for.


A little more info.

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I don't know the answer...but I know that none of those options would be a shock, (to me), and that they need to be ferreted out, exposed and dealt with, both in the courts as well as the court of public opinion.

Other options may present themselves as time goes on...technological, etc.

On the legal end, one of the torts would be “intentional interference with prospective economic advantage.”

Korea Supply company vs Lockheed martin Corporation holds:
“(1) an economic relationship between the plaintiff and some third party, with the probability of future economic benefit to the plaintiff; (2) the defendant’s knowledge of the relationship; (3) intentional acts on the part of the defendant designed to disrupt the relationship; (4) actual disruption of the relationship; and (5) economic harm to the plaintiff proximately caused by the acts of the defendant.”

So a civil suit by the campaign could have a cause of action.


More of a stretch but possible is 42 U.S. Code § 1985.Conspiracy to interfere with civil rights.

But I'll let the real lawyers confirm any of this.


More interesting will be the response by regular folks and/or organized groups on the right, The folks who did this set a precedent, and they have unintended consequences.

[blues]

Thank you, Wondering Beard, for your perspective. Always appreciated.

[Wise_A]

"Haha, we made accounts and places a million fake RSVPs! You suck and are stupid!"

Meanwhile, Joe Biden sits in his basement, (forever) alone. Possibly sniffing some hair.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

Regardless of which one of these narratives are correct, they beg the question: What are the effects of digital voter suppression foreign and domestic and how can it be countered ?

Ahem, if I recall there was no Russian interference in the 2016 election as testified by Vlad Putin. Perhaps, sucking up to dictators would be a starting point as well as acknowledging such interference by all foreign parties.

Messing with voting, false info and screwing up meetings is a custom of all of the political spectrum since the founding of the Republic. So it becomes more techy - what a surprise.

Both parties will do whatever it takes. Then squeal if the other side does it to them.

[Tamara]

What are the effects of digital voter suppression foreign and domestic and how can it be countered ?

How is this considered voter suppression?

[RevolverRob]

How is this considered voter suppression?

People seem to conflate the potential for convincing the lazy to stay home on election day as voter suppression.

Meanwhile, we have onerous voting laws, continually blocking of mail-in-ballot voting that is constitutional, and gerrymandering up the ass. We don't need foreign voter suppression, when we have domestic voter suppression right here in the U.S.

But let's focus our attention on Russia or Tik-Tok or whatever.
__

Trump's Campaign has hopefully learned a quick lesson about advertising/believing digital RSVPs in their campaign. They did, actually, play his campaign for fools. Expecting a million people to show up, in the middle of a pandemic, in a city with a population of 400,000 people...Those numbers don't add up. Any fucking moron could have seen that - and yet....
__

However, if AOC is taking actual credit for this barrage, that should prompt a rapid DOJ investigation. As much as people want her to be better than Trump, in my opinion, AOC is the same person, just female and younger. A narcissistic, power hungry, moron, with the sense of a pile of slime mold.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

The problem is that being a narcissistic, power hungry, moron, with the sense of a pile of slime mold is acceptable if said mold might carry out your social policies. This has been a prime principle in explaining why folks who spout high moral principles vote for a mold and claim that the deity sent a flawed mold to Earth to carry out their preferred social policies.

The lesser evil mold, based on support of your social issues, can grow on your cheese and on your personal bits, if one those blah,blahs are controlled or those actions are controlled.

Now some become convinced that the mold is acceptable. Certainly, some molds are welcomed to grow in and one products. They produce things we like and use.

Ban guns or ban gays, spread your spores, Oh Great Mold.

[Baldanders]

I'm too lazy to link to the Politico article, but timeline they show has the Trump campaign realizing 300k registrations were fake before the day. To me the real story is only so many folks within driving distance were willing to show up to this rally.

I think both sides are seeing a reason to push this narrative.

Easier than talking about policies and solutions.

(Or recent SC decisions for someone who was going to deliver culture war wins.....)

ETA: It's been at least a dozen posts since I mentioned Heinlein, so I must recommend "A Bathroom of Her Own," a nice little ditty on using dirty tricks vs. "machine politics." RAH had experience in local politics.

[Joe in PNG]

It's a bit of a willing favor to the Trump campaign on the Left's behalf, giving them a ton of campaign material to use over the next month.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

It's only operative to perhaps influence his turnout from the base. Chosing Orange Mold vs. Dopey Mold based on rally tricks isn't really a factor.

[Zincwarrior]

Ahem, if I recall there was no Russian interference in the 2016 election as testified by Vlad Putin. Perhaps, sucking up to dictators would be a starting point as well as acknowledging such interference by all foreign parties.

Messing with voting, false info and screwing up meetings is a custom of all of the political spectrum since the founding of the Republic. So it becomes more techy - what a surprise.

Both parties will do whatever it takes. Then squeal if the other side does it to them.

Asking for help from foreign powers like China used to be frowned on.

[Borderland]

Living on Twitter time has it's downside.

The Art of the Deal so to speak.

Trump just had the tables turned on him by a younger generation that knows how to use the platform as well or possibly better than he does.

Putting out false information on Twitter doesn't seem to be a yuge deal unless there's incoming.

[RevolverRob]

Living on Twitter time has it's downside.

The Art of the Deal so to speak.

Trump just had the tables turned on him by a younger generation that knows how to use the platform as well or possibly better than he does.

Putting out false information on Twitter doesn't seem to be a yuge deal unless there's incoming.

And thus it would probably be a good idea to have candidates that understood the dynamics of Twitter Time. Twitter time isn't going away anytime soon. Tik-Tok, Instagram, blah-blah-blah it's all here to stay. And having septuagenarians run our country doesn't seem like a great idea - in a world where communication and the ability to disseminate disinformation along with real information is measured in seconds.

For all his faults, Obama was not prone to the level of gaffe that Trump or Biden are prone to. He is a man who communicates exceptionally well and clearly, even if his administration was more opaque than the Great Wall of China. Trump doesn't even have the redeeming quality of being an eloquent and intelligent speaker.

I'm proposing a constitutional amendment, if we can limit the minimum age of a president, we should limit the maximum age. I propose that no president can be greater than 60 1/2 years old when sworn into office the first time. Yea, I just cut all of you boomers out of being president, sorry/not sorry. :p

[TAZ]

Honestly, it’s funny if the rally got side swiped by folks who think it’s cool to digitally shout down opposing views. Ha ha funny in one side, but hmmmmm funny on the other. The positive to this is that they didn’t need to burn down Berkeley or some other institution again in their fervor to deny folks they disagree with the ability to freely do their thing. Not very inclusive if you ask me, but par for the course these days. Guess if Slow Joe ever figures out how to get out if his basement his rallies or whatever will become fair game. And so things will escalate just a bit more.

In the mean time, it’s going to play into DJT hands that the DNC is using Chicom TicTok to counter his rallies cause they have no other platform that can compete.

This is not voter suppression in any way, IMO. But then I didn’t think the supposed Russian bots were either.

There are only a few months left till the ejection. How far can things escalate? Can we have folks hack databases and wipe conservative or liberal voting blocks from databases? Can we have polling locations errors for certain regions? The way 2020 is going those may be challenges vs rhetorical questions.

[Tamara]

Honestly, it’s funny if the rally got side swiped by folks who think it’s cool to digitally shout down opposing views.

Nobody got shouted down. Everybody who wanted to go to the rally got to go. All that happened was the organizers were duped into thinking that a million people suddenly wanted to go to a rally in a 19,000-seat coliseum in a city of 400,000 which, as RevolverRob pointed out, should have caused anyone at the Trump campaign who's not operating totally inside the bubble to smell a rat.

Instead, they were gleefully predicting an overflow crowd of 40k waiting outside, and telling that to any reporter who'd listen. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[TAZ]

Nobody got shouted down. Everybody who wanted to go to the rally got to go. All that happened was the organizers were duped into thinking that a million people suddenly wanted to go to a rally in a 19,000-seat coliseum in a city of 400,000 which, as RevolverRob pointed out, should have caused anyone at the Trump campaign who's not operating totally inside the bubble to smell a rat.

Instead, they were gleefully predicting an overflow crowd of 40k waiting outside, and telling that to any reporter who'd listen. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I will gleefully plead ignorance on how these rallies work as I have zero intentions of ever going, but lets for the sake of argument assume that some people can count. If you're interested in going to the rally, but hear that a million "tickets" have been requested and you dont go because well its already 10X overbooked, how does purposefully registering for a limited space rally for the single purpose of screwing with your political opponent not hinder folks from doing what they want?

People of one political leaning purposefully fucked with the ability of other to do as they wish. Part of me actually finds it funny that he got played, by a bunch of folks on TikToc. Part of me however, doesn't like the idea that we are now openly screwing with political campaigns. I mean the country got its panties in a bunch about supposed Russian bots influencing the last election, but doesn't think twice about real people purposefully screwing with the operations of an opponents campaign.

Where does it stop? Are we going to draw a line at a million people simultaneously bombarding political opponents servers creating havoc on a site? Its just people expressing their opinions or pretending to like the campaign.

Maybe you guys re OK with this kind of petulant politics, but in all honesty, I'm kind of ready for grown ups to come to the table and act accordingly. And I mean that for both sides of the political coin.

[Borderland]

And thus it would probably be a good idea to have candidates that understood the dynamics of Twitter Time. Twitter time isn't going away anytime soon. Tik-Tok, Instagram, blah-blah-blah it's all here to stay. And having septuagenarians run our country doesn't seem like a great idea - in a world where communication and the ability to disseminate disinformation along with real information is measured in seconds.

For all his faults, Obama was not prone to the level of gaffe that Trump or Biden are prone to. He is a man who communicates exceptionally well and clearly, even if his administration was more opaque than the Great Wall of China. Trump doesn't even have the redeeming quality of being an eloquent and intelligent speaker.

I'm proposing a constitutional amendment, if we can limit the minimum age of a president, we should limit the maximum age. I propose that no president can be greater than 60 1/2 years old when sworn into office the first time. Yea, I just cut all of you boomers out of being president, sorry/not sorry. :p

That's really cold. But you have Covid on your side. In time it should cure the septuagenarian presidential candidate problem. Again, that's really cold. I can't emphasize that enough.

[blues]

LittleLebowski RevolverRob just asked me to ask you to give him a 30 day ban.







:cool:

[MickAK]

To be fair, we would have gleefully messed with Hillary rallies in 2016. The only reason we didn't is nobody wanted to go to a Hillary rally. Nobody seems to be getting in line for Biden rallies either. Maybe he can hire Bernie as a front man.

[Borderland]

LittleLebowski RevolverRob just asked me to ask you to give him a 30 day ban.







:cool:

Too cold. That's like a death sentence. :(

[RevolverRob]

That's really cold. But you have Covid on your side. In time it should cure the septuagenarian presidential candidate problem. Again, that's really cold. I can't emphasize that enough.

To be honest, I initially had the age a little older (basically you couldn't be 70 prior to the end of your first term). But I figured...start high and wiggle your way back.

Hey, let's just apply the FERS "Rule of 80" as a maximum (instead of minimum). Which means your age + years of federal service cannot exceed 80.

Joe Biden is out.

He is 77 and served 26 years as a senator, then 8 years as VP. He's way past his expiration date for POTUS.

Donald Trump isn't out, yet - because he is 74 and has 3'ish years of service. In theory, he won't reach the Rule of 80 maximum prior to completion of a second term.

Hilary Clinton is out - she is 72, served as a senator for 8 years, then SOS for 4 years. She exceeds the max by 4 years already.

Elizabeth Warren is out - She is 70, senator for 7 years, FDIC for 4 years, Consumer Financial Protection Bureau for slightly yes than 1 year. She's nearly 2 years past her expiration date.

[blues]

Too cold. That's like a death sentence. :(

So #RevolverRobMatters (https://pistol-forum.com/usertag.php?do=list&action=hash&hash=RevolverRobMatters)

Is that what you're saying?...

...Just wait until he creates an autonomous zone on your yard...just wait.

[Borderland]

To be honest, I initially had the age a little older (basically you couldn't be 70 prior to the end of your first term). But I figured...start high and wiggle your way back.

Hey, let's just apply the FERS "Rule of 80" as a maximum (instead of minimum). Which means your age + years of federal service cannot exceed 80.

Joe Biden is out.

He is 77 and served 26 years as a senator, then 8 years as VP. He's way past his expiration date for POTUS.

Donald Trump isn't out, yet - because he is 74 and has 3'ish years of service. In theory, he won't reach the Rule of 80 maximum prior to completion of a second term.

Hilary Clinton is out - she is 72, served as a senator for 8 years, then SOS for 4 years. She exceeds the max by 4 years already.

Elizabeth Warren is out - She is 70, senator for 7 years, FDIC for 4 years, Consumer Financial Protection Bureau for slightly yes than 1 year. She's nearly 2 years past her expiration date.

OK, I'm in.

I retired under the rule of 92. Age plus service equals 92 and you can go. GTF outa here. I had 30 yos plus 62 so I punched out. If you haven't done your thing by then you screwed up or maybe just not paying attention. Nobody can help you with that.

[RevolverRob]

OK, I'm in.

I retired under the rule of 92. Age plus service equals 92 and you can go. GTF outa here. I had 30 yos plus 62 so I punched out. If you haven't done your thing by then you screwed up or maybe just not paying attention. Nobody can help you with that.

We're on the same page.

To be clear, I'm not saying "People over 70 are useless" or incapable of leadership or being good leaders. I just think we should age some folks out, who have been around too long (lookin' at you Nancy Pelosi). In particular, age them out of holding elected positions. I'd prefer term limits to an age-based approach - at really nearly all levels of the government. But that might let some folks get away with holding multiple cabinet level positions and then running for POTUS and basically playing by the technical part of the rules as opposed to the spirit of the rules.

And I'll have you guys know, I've never claimed any portion of someone's yard as an autonomous zone. So, please...don't worry about those helicopters with the RR Logo of Colt SAA being hammered down onto a sickle...

[Borderland]

So #RevolverRobMatters (https://pistol-forum.com/usertag.php?do=list&action=hash&hash=RevolverRobMatters)

Is that what you're saying?...

...Just wait until he creates an autonomous zone on your yard...just wait.

It isn't that simple. The committee will have to approve that. We need to have some guarantees that he will provide some compensation to the people.

[Half Moon]

And I'll have you guys know, I've never claimed any portion of someone's yard as an autonomous zone. So, please...don't worry about those helicopters with the RR Logo of Colt SAA being hammered down onto a sickle...

SAA and sickle flag? My feels are soooo mixed up now! :-P

[RevolverRob]

It isn't that simple. The committee will have to approve that. We need to have some guarantees that he will provide some compensation to the people.

We don't negotiate with terrorists.

Or unions.

What's the difference? :confused:

[Borderland]

SAA and sickle flag? My feels are soooo mixed up now! :-P

I can't even imagine that. That has to be some twisted socialistic/hedge fund symbolism.

[Borderland]

We don't negotiate with terrorists.

Or unions.

What's the difference? :confused:

Labels aren't helpful. Everything still needs to approved by the committee.

[DDTSGM]

I'm proposing a constitutional amendment, if we can limit the minimum age of a president, we should limit the maximum age. I propose that no president can be greater than 60 1/2 years old when sworn into office the first time. Yea, I just cut all of you boomers out of being president, sorry/not sorry. :p

In reality, I think it would be legit to have it be a candidate can't be elected to a term if they would be over 72 upon completion of that term. So effectively, 68. I think most folks have their faculties about them at those ages.

Alternatively, same thing except for a max age of 70 - since that is maximum SS retirement age, which moves the ball to 66.

ETA: just read the posts on the age + service rule. Good enough, except you get 80 year old billionaires running.

[Borderland]

In reality, I think it would be legit to have it be a candidate can't be elected to a term if they would be over 72 upon completion of that term. So effectively, 68. I think most folks have their faculties about them at those ages.

Alternatively, same thing except for a max age of 70 - since that is maximum SS retirement age, which moves the ball to 66.

ETA: just read the posts on the age + service rule. Good enough, except you get 80 year old billionaires running.

That would be the only downside. There would have to be an income cut off which would require some information about the income you paid taxes on for the last 5 years. Over a million in income for any of those 5 years would lock out a lot of people. Probably disqualify a lot of people in congress also. :D

[FNFAN]

What does Nadler think of mail in voting? He doesn't seem to think much of paper ballots and how would mailing in paper ballots be more secure?


Nadler talks about paper ballots. Circa 2004 (https://www.instagram.com/p/CDjyIbNADxC/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link) :rolleyes:

[feudist]

And thus it would probably be a good idea to have candidates that understood the dynamics of Twitter Time. Twitter time isn't going away anytime soon. Tik-Tok, Instagram, blah-blah-blah it's all here to stay. And having septuagenarians run our country doesn't seem like a great idea - in a world where communication and the ability to disseminate disinformation along with real information is measured in seconds.

For all his faults, Obama was not prone to the level of gaffe that Trump or Biden are prone to. He is a man who communicates exceptionally well and clearly, even if his administration was more opaque than the Great Wall of China. Trump doesn't even have the redeeming quality of being an eloquent and intelligent speaker.

I'm proposing a constitutional amendment, if we can limit the minimum age of a president, we should limit the maximum age. I propose that no president can be greater than 60 1/2 years old when sworn into office the first time. Yea, I just cut all of you boomers out of being president, sorry/not sorry. :p

I know, right? Obama was so dreamy and cool. It's way better to have digital cred than a Second Amendment. Or a First.

It always sent a thrill up my leg when he would talk about redistributing my money.