Surviving vehicle ambushes: Shoot the threat vs Drive away

[Warped Mindless]

https://youtu.be/TH_sYkan0oU

The obvious answer to the topic question is... "It depends."

Lots of factors that can dictate the correct tactic.

Video is interesting and im hoping it generates some good discussion.

Shoot the threat vs drive away... Your thoughts?

[RJ]

Fair amount of additional related discussion here:

https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?22371-Lawful-Self-Defense-to-quot-Run-Down-quot-Rioters

[UNM1136]

SouthNarc

pat

[Bio]

Not in the context of rioting, but of the everyday commute:

I've found myself trying to leave a car length or so in front of me and the stopped car in front of me. If something requires rapid movement, not being stuck with cars directly in front and behind you gives you more options.

[rkittine]

In South Africa you could buy a kit that spits out live flames around your car. They were sold because of the amount of Car Jackings that were going on. Probably not legal now, since that was in the late 80s and early 90s.

Bob

[Hambo]

Shoot the threat vs drive away... Your thoughts?

If your first indication that you're in a fight is bullets coming through your window, you're proper fucked.

Q-How many hits did those drivers take? A-All of them.

[RJ]

Not in the context of rioting, but of the everyday commute:

I've found myself trying to leave a car length or so in front of me and the stopped car in front of me. If something requires rapid movement, not being stuck with cars directly in front and behind you gives you more options.

Yep. I do that too. I learned if from this book, I bought almost 20 years ago. Much in it is still relevant today.

56731

https://www.amazon.com/Drive-Survive-Motorbooks-Workshop-Curt/dp/0760305250/ref=sr_1_7?dchild=1&keywords=drive+to+survive&qid=1593699316&sr=8-7

[GJM]

https://youtu.be/TH_sYkan0oU

The obvious answer to the topic question is... "It depends."

Lots of factors that can dictate the correct tactic.

Video is interesting and im hoping it generates some good discussion.

Shoot the threat vs drive away... Your thoughts?


Looks like the guy spent more on his gloves than for sights for his pistol.

[willie]

Not in the context of rioting, but of the everyday commute:

I've found myself trying to leave a car length or so in front of me and the stopped car in front of me. If something requires rapid movement, not being stuck with cars directly in front and behind you gives you more options.

I turned into a burger drive through only to find it blocked by two cretins in an old police car. Ahead of them and to one side was a third cretin. My instinct immediately alerted me that this was not right. I stopped before pulling up close to the other vehicle. Next cars entering blocked my egress. The idiots were working a ruse to get gas money. All reading this can readily see how the event could have had tragic outcome. The 380 in my pocket felt like a water pistol. I say choose drive throughs with care and avoid them at night. My experience occurred in broad daylight.

[Duelist]

The SUV driver in the Provo riot took a round, but boogied rather than shoot back, and made it to the hospital.

The vehicle freed him up from the crowd more effectively than shooting back, in this case, and I think it may be so in many cases.

[rd62]

Room to maneuver is always good. I always leave a couple car lengths between me and the vehicle in front both while driving and stopped. Its often an invitation to other drivers to fill that space but then I just start over. In motion it allows additional space and time to react in the event of a sudden maneuver by the driver ahead of you. At a stop it allows for additional space in the event of a rear end collision as well as the maneuvering space already mentioned.

Its also a good idea to be aware of any limitations due to the lane of traffic you may be in. Oncoming traffic, sidewalks (or lack thereof), pedestrian traffic, protesting crowds, etc may inhibit your ability to maneuver if you are trapped in the wrong lane.

I'd much prefer to observe, avoid, maneuver, and escape then to fight in or around my vehicle potentially against multiple agressors and with family in the car.

Fight would be one of my last options.

[WDR]

The SUV driver in the Provo riot took a round, but boogied rather than shoot back, and made it to the hospital.

The vehicle freed him up from the crowd more effectively than shooting back, in this case, and I think it may be so in many cases.

Getting out of the "kill zone" or "off the X" in an ambush situation is a good idea... inside a vehicle or not.

This shooting being somewhat close to me... really pissed me off. Folks painting the driver as the aggressor on social media also pissed me off. I dont pretend to know the drivers motives, but I highly doubt he was there to attack the protesters. Hopefully the scumbag who did the shooting gets a nice prison sentence.

[rcbusmc24]

Looks like the guy spent more on his gloves than for sights for his pistol.

That was filmed in Alliance OH At the PD range, Those are probably the Agencies UTM pistols from the vault that stay in that configuration full time. No reason to convert the slides back and forth.

[Greg]

Driving over the threat can be pretty effective too.

[DDTSGM]

Looks like the guy spent more on his gloves than for sights for his pistol.

One of the things that I quickly realized doing use-of-force training on simulators was that rounds tend to cluster around weapons. During FonF with sim rounds our bad guy's hands always take a beating.

[Totem Polar]

I have to admit, the video changed my mind on a few things. Not all, but some. The timer doesn’t lie, as they say.

[Duelist]

One of the things that I quickly realized doing use-of-force training on simulators was that rounds tend to cluster around weapons. During FonF with sim rounds our bad guy's hands always take a beating.

QFT. If I ever do that again, I’ll be wearing much stouter gloves than the Mechanix I used last time.

[Duces Tecum]

One of the things that I quickly realized doing use-of-force training on simulators was that rounds tend to cluster around weapons. During FonF with sim rounds our bad guy's hands always take a beating.

Reason enough to wear a second "primary" pistol and be able to use it to good effect with the other hand.
Stay in the fight.

[19852+]

The SUV driver in the Provo riot took a round, but boogied rather than shoot back, and made it to the hospital.

The vehicle freed him up from the crowd more effectively than shooting back, in this case, and I think it may be so in many cases.

In that case a V8 beats a .45 any day of the week and twice on Sunday...

[BehindBlueI's]

One thing to note is that in pretty much every scenario the bad guy was able to shoot his gun dry before any real response from the target. If you're caught unaware like in the simulation, you're going to have a lot of rounds coming in either way.

I've gotten chewed up pretty good in Simunitions scenarios exactly like this. Engaging from inside the car then exiting kind of became my default. If you're in a riot situation, that likely changes to engage then move out or just move out. Taking down one ambusher only to have fifteen more open up on you is probably a losing situation as well, and threat identification is going to be a nightmare.

[Bio]

In that case a V8 beats a .45 any day of the week and twice on Sunday...


The knockdown power of 30 million grains with a wide meplat.

[willie]

Knowing what I know has terrified me about any involvement with the criminal justice system. For this reason I would retreat if I could. We now have a new worry within the context of a strange era with a different set of rules. My opinion is that the concept of legal use of deadly force may not exist when violators are so-called protestors. I think this statement is especially true when you or I would use a long gun to fire on a group in order to escape injury or death. I write this to emphasize that there will be no room for any error of judgment.

[Coyotesfan97]

Yep. I do that too. I learned if from this book, I bought almost 20 years ago. Much in it is still relevant today.

56731

https://www.amazon.com/Drive-Survive-Motorbooks-Workshop-Curt/dp/0760305250/ref=sr_1_7?dchild=1&keywords=drive+to+survive&qid=1593699316&sr=8-7

Ordered. I learned to keep space from an FTO and later attended a Smith Driving class which taught the same thing for different reasons.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Trooper224]

Keeping reactionary space between yourself and other vehicles, both while stationary and moving, is really just basic driving sense. It used to be taught to highschoolers in drivers education. but given the state of drivers education these days I wouldn't be surprised if it isn't anymore. I haven't watched the video, but for a citizen driving away is always best, if possible.

[HCountyGuy]

I’ve been giving this topic a fair amount of consideration especially with me living near and at times commuting in to Atlanta.

I did adopt a different way of undoing my seatbelt to keep my primary hand free after seeing it in this video:


https://youtu.be/PIqX2d_GZY4

[farscott]

I saw this online. https://twitter.com/antifa_public/status/1280411450268360704

The not-so-hidden subtext is, "Here is a way to pull someone from a vehicle so as to deliver a beatdown". I believes this rhymes with "Reginald Denny".

[wvincent]

I saw this online. https://twitter.com/antifa_public/status/1280411450268360704

The not-so-hidden subtext is, "Here is a way to pull someone from a vehicle so as to deliver a beatdown". I believes this rhymes with "Reginald Denny".

I see the account has been suspended.
Any chance you have a screen grab?

[blues]

I see the account has been suspended.
Any chance you have a screen grab?

If it's the one I'm thinking of, it showed some antifa piece of filth demonstrating the use of a resqme style window breaker / seat belt cutter. Nothing technical...just demonstrating their intent to fuck with innocents.

https://resqme.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/resqme-rainbow-2020-sqaure-768x768.jpg

[wvincent]

If it's the one I'm thinking of, it showed some antifa piece of filth demonstrating the use of a resqme style window breaker / seat belt cutter. Nothing technical...just demonstrating their intent to fuck with innocents.

https://resqme.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/resqme-rainbow-2020-sqaure-768x768.jpg

Thank you.
If they are going to dumb enough to publish their TTP's, I'm gonna try and be smart enough to learn from them.

I plan on leaving my vehicle of my own accord, please and thank you.

Oh, and fuck them.:D

[farscott]

I see the account has been suspended.
Any chance you have a screen grab?

Sorry, I did not get a screen capture. The link was to a video showing how to use the glass breaker and seat belt cutter and intimated why such devices are helpful during protests.

[idahojess]

Sorry, I did not get a screen capture. The link was to a video showing how to use the glass breaker and seat belt cutter and intimated why such devices are helpful during protests.


Reminds me of some good advice regarding the utility of revolvers in close situations (Bolke/Nyeti/Dagga --post 43):

https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?14306-Revolver-article-in-MSW/page5

[HCountyGuy]

Reminds me of some good advice regarding the utility of revolvers in close situations (Bolke/Nyeti/Dagga --post 43):

https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?14306-Revolver-article-in-MSW/page5

Certainly a good post but I would point to the different context of that post versus the context of this discussion. A revolver will be of limited use if you’re unfortunate enough to run in to an angry mob of “protestors” that you can’t easily drive out of.