I am an old man filled with regret

[Maple Syrup Actual]

Last year I drank too much (for maybe the tenth consecutive year but last year was legitimately too much, even by my standards) and I was actually getting to a point that I thought might be a problem and anyway I was putting on weight so I figured I would take a break and focus on improving my fitness for a bit. I'd cut down a lot since I got a baby but was still drinking at just a casual level, and also lifting weights at a very casual pace. So I cranked it right on and started lifting aggressively, and stopped drinking entirely, not permanently or anything but just to strip out empty calories and belly fat and whatever, but also because I think I've spent most of the last decade drinking a lot every day and I was sort of wondering if that might indicate a bit of an alcohol dependency that wouldn't be apparent until I just stopped completely.

I haven't had a drink in three weeks and it's much worse than I expected: I feel exactly the same. I was totally convinced that I was starting my day hungover every morning, and that's why I would get up and feel bagged and foggy and basically like a prematurely grey zombie. I really thought that once I stopped drinking and started exercising every day I'd wake up and feel alive. Instead, I wake up and just feel like I could use a drink...not of alcohol, but of anything, because I no longer end each day by ingesting a "gall-on" or whatever (approximately 3.8 litres in science units or 32 gills USD) of fluid so I just feel slightly dehydrated by the time I wake up.

I am losing weight which is nice but the obvious health aspects of this are annoyingly inconclusive...which I why I found yesterday's visit with my older sister particularly interesting.

My sister, who has an even worse drinking habit (along with a bunch of other drugs) and has for about twice as long, went and got her liver function tested after living in fear of what damage she'd done...it took her a few years to screw up the courage to go get tested because she was pretty much of the opinion that they'd give her a timeline of her remaining years that would include things like "eyes turn yellow by Christmas" and "lose all weight about here, die on liver transplant list mid-2024."

But no, she's fine and her liver is working perfectly. Her whole physical was great. What kind of crazy ripoff is this?




I am posting this as a public service announcement to anyone who thinks their chronic alcoholism is the problem: don't try to fix this, it's a trap. You are confronted only with the ravages of time and you can't quit the aging process. Live in ignorant bliss. Reality is terrible and I can't unlearn this. Go back! This is not the way!

[RJ]

I knew it.

PS An Airstream jigger full of Woodford Reserve makes a perfect blend with Diet Coke over ice with a Longhorn 7 Pepper Salad. All your major food groups (Bourbon, Salad, Steak) there. Win.

[Malamute]

Yeah, the age thing. Aint it great?

Good for you taking the initiative on getting yourself squared away in whatever you felt was needed to do.


I drank quite a bit when younger, then decided I wasnt making any progress on my life goals or ambitions, so stopped. It wasnt a problem, other than my formerly charming and witty friends didnt seem quite as charming and witty when they were drunk and I wasnt. I started back a few years ago, Im at about 1 bottle of bourbon/year to year and a half. Its quite good in coffee. If I can ever get back close to normal with pain and meds, I may be able to up my game a bit, but dont feel like Im missing much not drinking much.

[Robinson]

I have one drink of bourbon pretty much every night, and an occasional beer or glass of wine. Liver function is fine. But I'm starting to have problems with my occipital nerve becoming inflamed and causing a migraine after even a single drink. Which truly sucks because I've been pretty careful to be moderate in my drinking.

[hufnagel]

you'll be happy to know there's a blood therapy experiment they did with mice that appears to reverse the aging process.
stay tuned! :D

[blues]

Getting older is not for pussies.

I'm in the second half of my 60's and the thing that pisses me off the most is that I'll never be as strong as I used to be...my shoulder makes more crunching sounds than it used to during presses or pull-ups...and I have to face the fact that despite being relatively fit compared to most, (including younger folks), it's a no win game in the end.

I don't drink a lot these days...I gave up the wild nights of excessive Friday night drinking with the boys and gals some years back...but I enjoy a daily beer or glass of wine, or shot of something stronger. (I try to make it a strong one so I only have the one. ;))

Since I'm not going to be on the cover of GQ or Men's Health, I guess I can stop worrying about whether I do deadlifts at max weight or goblet squats with kettlebells. It won't make much of a difference...the thing is just to do enough of something so that the "aging phenotype" that Dr. Jonathon Sullivan so eloquently discusses in his book, "The Barbell Prescription", doesn't dominate the years ahead.

I wish you many decades ahead to enjoy your family, Maple Syrup Actual,...and the drinks that go along with it. Cheers!

[AKDoug]

When my grandfather was on his death bed after a valve replacement in his early 70's my mom and uncle took him to see a new cardiologist. G'pa was a life long four mixed drinks a night drinker and the first docs made him quit cold turkey. The new cardiologist took him off 2/3 of his meds and told him he could go back to two drinks a night. The change was virtually immediate and he lived another 15 years.

Personally, I only drink when I'm in a good mood. Unlike my grandfather, many of my relatives drank themselves into a bad place that eventually killed them. I saw that as a child and vowed that I would never drink if I wasn't happy. I'm in my early 50's and I can't remember a time I've broken that rule.

[LittleLebowski]

Last year I drank too much (for maybe the tenth consecutive year but last year was legitimately too much, even by my standards) and I was actually getting to a point that I thought might be a problem and anyway I was putting on weight so I figured I would take a break and focus on improving my fitness for a bit. I'd cut down a lot since I got a baby but was still drinking at just a casual level, and also lifting weights at a very casual pace. So I cranked it right on and started lifting aggressively, and stopped drinking entirely, not permanently or anything but just to strip out empty calories and belly fat and whatever, but also because I think I've spent most of the last decade drinking a lot every day and I was sort of wondering if that might indicate a bit of an alcohol dependency that wouldn't be apparent until I just stopped completely.

I haven't had a drink in three weeks and it's much worse than I expected: I feel exactly the same. I was totally convinced that I was starting my day hungover every morning, and that's why I would get up and feel bagged and foggy and basically like a prematurely grey zombie. I really thought that once I stopped drinking and started exercising every day I'd wake up and feel alive. Instead, I wake up and just feel like I could use a drink...not of alcohol, but of anything, because I no longer end each day by ingesting a "gall-on" or whatever (approximately 3.8 litres in science units or 32 gills USD) of fluid so I just feel slightly dehydrated by the time I wake up.

I am losing weight which is nice but the obvious health aspects of this are annoyingly inconclusive...which I why I found yesterday's visit with my older sister particularly interesting.

My sister, who has an even worse drinking habit (along with a bunch of other drugs) and has for about twice as long, went and got her liver function tested after living in fear of what damage she'd done...it took her a few years to screw up the courage to go get tested because she was pretty much of the opinion that they'd give her a timeline of her remaining years that would include things like "eyes turn yellow by Christmas" and "lose all weight about here, die on liver transplant list mid-2024."

But no, she's fine and her liver is working perfectly. Her whole physical was great. What kind of crazy ripoff is this?




I am posting this as a public service announcement to anyone who thinks their chronic alcoholism is the problem: don't try to fix this, it's a trap. You are confronted only with the ravages of time and you can't quit the aging process. Live in ignorant bliss. Reality is terrible and I can't unlearn this. Go back! This is not the way!

#NotAllHeroesWearCapes (https://pistol-forum.com/usertag.php?do=list&action=hash&hash=NotAllHeroesWearCapes)

[Grey]

I knew it.

PS An Airstream jigger full of Woodford Reserve makes a perfect blend with Diet Coke over ice with a Longhorn 7 Pepper Salad. All your major food groups (Bourbon, Salad, Steak) there. Win.We may not be able to be friends anymore... mixing woodford with diet coke... smh... then again I'm a "neat" kind of guy.

Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk

[psalms144.1]

I stopped drinking about 9 years ago. 18 months later I was diagnosed type 2 diabetic - WTactualF is that about?

In the 2018-19 period I dropped FIFTY (50) pounds over about 7 months. Everyone was raving about how great I must feel. All I ever felt was hungry. All my joints still hurt. I'm not sleeping any better. Yes, I can zip up a flight of stairs a little better, but that's about it...

[LittleLebowski]

I'm a little grouchy about going down a size on my pants waist. Shit doesn't fit anymore :(

[Clobbersaurus]

I haven't had a drink in three weeks and it's much worse than I expected: I feel exactly the same. I was totally convinced that I was starting my day hungover every morning, and that's why I would get up and feel bagged and foggy and basically like a prematurely grey zombie. I really thought that once I stopped drinking and started exercising every day I'd wake up and feel alive. Instead, I wake up and just feel like I could use a drink...not of alcohol, but of anything, because I no longer end each day by ingesting a "gall-on" or whatever (approximately 3.8 litres in science units or 32 gills USD) of fluid so I just feel slightly dehydrated by the time I wake up.


Sounds like parenthood more than anything. I never drank coffee until I had kids. True story.

Coffee is now my best friend in the whole world. Also true story.

[Maple Syrup Actual]

you'll be happy to know there's a blood therapy experiment they did with mice that appears to reverse the aging process.
stay tuned! :D

This really just goes to show that all those vampire movies are way more accurate than anyone expected, even though I'm not going to let it influence my wardrobe choices. Sorry Slavex.

Also I'm not sure how I feel about it if it means I have to be a mouse vampire, specifically. It sounds like a lot of work and I am notoriously soft-hearted when it comes to small animals. I think I would rather be a person vampire, even if the science sounds like it's pointing more towards mouse vampirism.

[UNM1136]

I hit a similar place mentioned in the OP. I quit cold turkey, and informed my doc about it. A 1.75 liter bottle would last me 2-4 days. My doc hit the roof, and told me to taper. My liver enzymes were slightly elevated, but his explanation was that alcohol being a depressant and all, part of the physical dependance was physiological response to counteract depressant/sedative effects, like increased blood pressure and pulse rate. He told me that quitting cold turkey, if you have been consuming large amounts over a lot of time, can lead to a stroke when your body is compensating for depressant effects that are no longer being supplied by the drug.

My bloob pressure and pulse rate were stupid high.

So I tapered till I was dry, 4-6 weeks later everthing was good the hangoverish cobwebby head feeling abated. I am casually drinking again, largely because we are short handed at work, so unexpected shift overtime taking calls for service is fairly regular. With covid-19 the wife and I are both essential, and distance learning was not for my two teenagers enrolled in a private school that I pay an arm and a leg for. Despite daily monitoring of assignments both kids were risking being held back. So booze is back kn the menue, probably with greater quantities and frequency than it should be. An elevated resting heart rate measured by my smartwatch and/or elevated blood pressure are my clues to throttle back, and within a couple of days now my sleep quality improves and life is good again.

Just my experience, worth about what you paid for it.

pat

[GyroF-16]

Despite daily monitoring of assignments both kids were risking being held back.

pat


///Thread drift warning...///
Wow- I’m impressed with the school your kids are in... the (very highly rated) public school district where my kids go essentially guaranteed that there would be little to no consequence for poor performance or non-participation. The stated goal was “maintaining contact” with the students. The junior high didn’t award grades for the last quarter of the year, and the high school promised that grades would not drop more than one letter grade from what a student had on the last day of in-person class. I was pretty underwhelmed.
/// Thread drift complete ///

[Totem Polar]

...towards mouse vampirism.

Would you need acrylic rodental work?


PS. https://www.amazon.com/Therefore-Saying-Ceramic-Coffee-Mug/dp/B076N4JDFL

[Maple Syrup Actual]

I hit a similar place mentioned in the OP. I quit cold turkey, and informed my doc about it. A 1.75 liter bottle would last me 2-4 days. My doc hit the roof, and told me to taper. My liver enzymes were slightly elevated, but his explanation was that alcohol being a depressant and all, part of the physical dependance was physiological response to counteract depressant/sedative effects, like increased blood pressure and pulse rate. He told me that quitting cold turkey, if you have been consuming large amounts over a lot of time, can lead to a stroke when your body is compensating for depressant effects that are no longer being supplied by the drug.

My bloob pressure and pulse rate were stupid high.

So I tapered till I was dry, 4-6 weeks later everthing was good the hangoverish cobwebby head feeling abated. I am casually drinking again, largely because we are short handed at work, so unexpected shift overtime taking calls for service is fairly regular. With covid-19 the wife and I are both essential, and distance learning was not for my two teenagers enrolled in a private school that I pay an arm and a leg for. Despite daily monitoring of assignments both kids were risking being held back. So booze is back kn the menue, probably with greater quantities and frequency than it should be. An elevated resting heart rate measured by my smartwatch and/or elevated blood pressure are my clues to throttle back, and within a couple of days now my sleep quality improves and life is good again.

Just my experience, worth about what you paid for it.

pat

Actually...that is super interesting. Now I'm extremely curious to see what I feel like in another few weeks and my interest level is probably sufficient to overcome my usual "fuck this" response so I think I'll stay strict on the booze front just to see what happens.


Sounds like parenthood more than anything. I never drank coffee until I had kids. True story.


You know, I don't even really have that as an excuse...the kid sleeps through the night and my lifestyle hasn't really been affected much. I would describe myself as somewhat spoiled in this regard - the baby seems unusually cheerful and happy, and Erin, apart from being occasionally a little edgy as she tries to fast off the last bits of baby weight, is totally her usual unruffled, incomprehensible self, only carrying a typically smiling baby around.

Which I admit is a bit weird because whenever I start lifting for real, my testosterone spikes and I want to bang all the time but I have to mentally get past the laughing smiling baby, which doesn't completely fit with our traditional...rubric? But I feel sufficiently priveleged to be having basically an easy ride on the fatherhood thing that I really don't think it's my place to complain.

Super weird for Erin though; she was always afraid she'd be pretty lousy at being a mom since she's naturally a bit remote and most of what she's into is not exactly child-friendly (except bunny rabbits, I guess) but she's totally killing it. Clearly a biological switch flipped because she went from being a horror movie enthusiast, to someone who can't see PG-13 disaster movies without being like "this is too scary, all those people are in danger and if they don't make it home, who will make sure their kids are eating healthy? I can't watch this!"

[Casual Friday]

It's all the maple syrup that dragging you down. Stuff outweighs water like 3:1.

[Maple Syrup Actual]

Would you need acrylic rodental work?


PS. https://www.amazon.com/Therefore-Saying-Ceramic-Coffee-Mug/dp/B076N4JDFL

World class wordplay

That mug highlights my inner turmoil. I am a shell. I better get freaking shredded or something because right now I feel like I got up at 4:30 every morning and ran with Jocko Willink for a month and he's looking at me going "and don't you feel great now?" and I'm like "no, you dummy, I've been getting up at 4:30 in the freaking morning and punishing myself for a month; why the hell does anyone think this is going to feel good? You don't call something 'endurance training' because it's freaking pleasant, this blows: middle finger emoji"

[Maple Syrup Actual]

It's all the maple syrup that dragging you down. Stuff outweighs water like 3:1.

This is absolutely where I went wrong...in metric we're so focused on kilograms that I never even stopped to think about the newtons.

Oh cruel weight, why do you mock me?

[RevolverRob]

I quit drinking seriously - after my last foray into the bottom of a bottle of 12-year old Glen Livet that started the night full and ended the night empty. As soon as I stopped drinking - my liver enzymes went up. When I went in and got checked the docs said to me, "Great, you can just scale back on drinking and you'll be fine."

"Doc...I don't drink more than one alcohol beverage per week."

"Oh...Well you're kind of fucked then."

:rolleyes:

[Nephrology]

Really impressed by all of the self-honesty re: drinking. It is an easy trap to fall into over time - particularly in the COVID era where we are all stuck at home more than usual.

For what it's worth, elevated ALT/AST ("liver function tests") are often normal to only slightly elevated in alcoholic liver disease, which can include steatohepatitis (fatty liver), hepatic cirrhosis (scarring), and alcoholic hepatitis (inflammation of the liver). Typically, steatohepatitis precedes the development of cirrhosis in people with chronic problems with alcohol. Alcoholic hepatitis is usually an acute problem associated with a binge.

Point is, by the time lab values are up, you've already done a number on your liver, so don't wait til ALT/ASTs are above normal to reduce your alcohol intake... better to cut back sooner than later.

Also, my PSA for everyone in here who has/may have high blood pressure - get that under control! The meds are cheap and once you are acclimated to them (1-2 weeks) the side effects are pretty minor. Definitely less serious than a stroke or heart attack.

[UNM1136]

Really impressed by all of the self-honesty re: drinking. It is an easy trap to fall into over time - particularly in the COVID era where we are all stuck at home more than usual.

For what it's worth, elevated ALT/AST ("liver function tests") are often normal to only slightly elevated in alcoholic liver disease, which can include steatohepatitis (fatty liver), hepatic cirrhosis (scarring), and alcoholic hepatitis (inflammation of the liver). Typically, steatohepatitis precedes the development of cirrhosis in people with chronic problems with alcohol. Alcoholic hepatitis is usually an acute problem associated with a binge.

Point is, by the time lab values are up, you've already done a number on your liver, so don't wait til ALT/ASTs are above normal to reduce your alcohol intake... better to cut back sooner than later.

Also, my PSA for everyone in here who has/may have high blood pressure - get that under control! The meds are cheap and once you are acclimated to them (1-2 weeks) the side effects are pretty minor. Definitely less serious than a stroke or heart attack.

I was really happy my BP resloved itself with the alcohol reduction. Normal 118/76. I am old(ish) and broke(ish) enough that the thought of daily required meds depresses me. But it will happen eventually....

pat

[Nephrology]

I was really happy my BP resloved itself with the alcohol reduction. Normal 118/76. I am old(ish) and broke(ish) enough that the thought of daily required meds depresses me. But it will happen eventually....

pat

Good! The fewer pills the better...

That said if you do need them in the future it's really not a big deal. A majority of American adults over 50 end up on them at some point. The side effects are the worst in the first couple weeks as your body adjusts to the changes in the "tone" of your blood vessels, but in my experience they resolve after that.

also, because most of these medications are old and extremely commonly prescribed, they are usually dirt cheap. I take lisinopril every day and I paid $12 bucks out of pocket for a 90 day supply when I ordered via valisure.com. That's less than my pharmacy co-pay. Very affordable.

[Casual Friday]

Really impressed by all of the self-honesty re: drinking. It is an easy trap to fall into over time - particularly in the COVID era where we are all stuck at home more than usual.

I'm not a big drinker, never have been but I enjoy a whiskey or Long Island once in a while. A few years ago, a friend made me a Bailey's and coffee at his house and I commented that it was quite good. Well, every Christmas since, he's bought me the giant Costco bottle of Bailey's. Normally, I have a couple, and toss the bottle when we need to make room in the fridge. Well, Covid, hit and I found myself sitting by the firepit on cool days and drinking a couple Bailey's and coffee, or three or four. Didn't think much of it really, until one day I just didn't like the feel of the routine. So I tossed it and am back to just having a drink periodically at a restaurant.


Also, my PSA for everyone in here who has/may have high blood pressure - get that under control! The meds are cheap and once you are acclimated to them (1-2 weeks) the side effects are pretty minor. Definitely less serious than a stroke or heart attack.

Genetics got me there. My Mom's side of the family all had high BP from an early age. Her and her siblings who took care of it never have had any heart problems, the ones that didn't either had open heart surgery or they're dead. I've been taking one BP pill for a few years and mine stays around 110/70 something.

ETA: Her siblings that did have heart problems weren't obese or anything either. Just high BP.

[FrankinCA]

Last year I drank too much (for maybe the tenth consecutive year but last year was legitimately too much, even by my standards) and I was actually getting to a point that I thought might be a problem and anyway I was putting on weight so I figured I would take a break and focus on improving my fitness for a bit. I'd cut down a lot since I got a baby but was still drinking at just a casual level, and also lifting weights at a very casual pace. So I cranked it right on and started lifting aggressively, and stopped drinking entirely, not permanently or anything but just to strip out empty calories and belly fat and whatever, but also because I think I've spent most of the last decade drinking a lot every day and I was sort of wondering if that might indicate a bit of an alcohol dependency that wouldn't be apparent until I just stopped completely.

I haven't had a drink in three weeks and it's much worse than I expected: I feel exactly the same. I was totally convinced that I was starting my day hungover every morning, and that's why I would get up and feel bagged and foggy and basically like a prematurely grey zombie. I really thought that once I stopped drinking and started exercising every day I'd wake up and feel alive. Instead, I wake up and just feel like I could use a drink...not of alcohol, but of anything, because I no longer end each day by ingesting a "gall-on" or whatever (approximately 3.8 litres in science units or 32 gills USD) of fluid so I just feel slightly dehydrated by the time I wake up.

I am losing weight which is nice but the obvious health aspects of this are annoyingly inconclusive...which I why I found yesterday's visit with my older sister particularly interesting.

My sister, who has an even worse drinking habit (along with a bunch of other drugs) and has for about twice as long, went and got her liver function tested after living in fear of what damage she'd done...it took her a few years to screw up the courage to go get tested because she was pretty much of the opinion that they'd give her a timeline of her remaining years that would include things like "eyes turn yellow by Christmas" and "lose all weight about here, die on liver transplant list mid-2024."

But no, she's fine and her liver is working perfectly. Her whole physical was great. What kind of crazy ripoff is this?




I am posting this as a public service announcement to anyone who thinks their chronic alcoholism is the problem: don't try to fix this, it's a trap. You are confronted only with the ravages of time and you can't quit the aging process. Live in ignorant bliss. Reality is terrible and I can't unlearn this. Go back! This is not the way!
I remember you: Misanthrope! Very clever changing your screen name

[Lex Luthier]

Really impressed by all of the self-honesty re: drinking. It is an easy trap to fall into over time - particularly in the COVID era where we are all stuck at home more than usual.

For what it's worth, elevated ALT/AST ("liver function tests") are often normal to only slightly elevated in alcoholic liver disease, which can include steatohepatitis (fatty liver), hepatic cirrhosis (scarring), and alcoholic hepatitis (inflammation of the liver). Typically, steatohepatitis precedes the development of cirrhosis in people with chronic problems with alcohol. Alcoholic hepatitis is usually an acute problem associated with a binge.

Point is, by the time lab values are up, you've already done a number on your liver, so don't wait til ALT/ASTs are above normal to reduce your alcohol intake... better to cut back sooner than later.

Also, my PSA for everyone in here who has/may have high blood pressure - get that under control! The meds are cheap and once you are acclimated to them (1-2 weeks) the side effects are pretty minor. Definitely less serious than a stroke or heart attack.


Thanks for this Nephrology. To your knowledge, are typical annual bloodwork panels- "Lipid Cascade" tests and the like- effective in revealing steatohepatitis? I've a full physical coming up.

Covid-related libation flow has been a bit higher at times over the last few months at The Lutherie Arms, too.

And yeah, lisinopril is cheap these days.
(Watch out for micturition syncope, though. Toilets are hard!)

[Nephrology]

Thanks for this Nephrology. To your knowledge, are typical annual bloodwork panels- "Lipid Cascade" tests and the like- effective in revealing steatohepatitis? I've a full physical coming up.

Covid-related libation flow has been a bit higher at times over the last few months at The Lutherie Arms, too.

And yeah, lisinopril is cheap these days.
(Watch out for micturition syncope, though. Toilets are hard!)

I am not an internist but no, steatohepatitis would not be reflected in the results of a lipid panel. If I remember correctly steatohepatitis is usually picked up by CT imaging, often incidentally.

You can mention it to your doctor at your physical and they may draw some labs but I don't think they will send you for imaging. Unless it's causing you active medical problems like hepatitis/pancreatitis/withdrawal/etc, the only treatment that would be offered to you would be lifestyle modification (drink less). So, just drink less :)

[Totem Polar]

Really impressed by all of the self-honesty re: drinking. It is an easy trap to fall into over time - particularly in the COVID era where we are all stuck at home more than usual.

For what it's worth, elevated ALT/AST ("liver function tests") are often normal to only slightly elevated in alcoholic liver disease, which can include steatohepatitis (fatty liver), hepatic cirrhosis (scarring), and alcoholic hepatitis (inflammation of the liver). Typically, steatohepatitis precedes the development of cirrhosis in people with chronic problems with alcohol. Alcoholic hepatitis is usually an acute problem associated with a binge.

Point is, by the time lab values are up, you've already done a number on your liver, so don't wait til ALT/ASTs are above normal to reduce your alcohol intake... better to cut back sooner than later.

Neph, what’s the current thinking on how much is too much? When my sister died of liver failure a few years ago, suffice to say, I went on a research tear, and just ended up confused. And that was before starting to look at other country’s recommendations. Opinions?

[Maple Syrup Actual]

I remember you: Misanthrope! Very clever changing your screen name

I should probably be concerned that I was readily identifiable mainly through a thread about alcoholism, but I think it's fair.

[Tom Duffy]

In one of Tom Clancy's novels he has Jack Ryan say, "No one over 40 should drink." I kind of agree. I'm at the point where a couple of drinks will have me feeling lousy in the morning. Since I retired, I ration myself to 2 drinks a month. I know what a slippery slope that can be.
A couple of Christmas' ago my daughters bought me a nice bottle of Johnnie Walker Blue Label. I'm never going to get though it all before it goes bad.
Every time people discuss chronic overindulgence I always think of the country song, "Bad liver and a broken heart" and think the former probably caused the latter.

[Nephrology]

Neph, what’s the current thinking on how much is too much? When my sister died of liver failure a few years ago, suffice to say, I went on a research tear, and just ended up confused. And that was before starting to look at other country’s recommendations. Opinions?

This isn't really something I know a lot about beyond what is taught in medical school. I would just point you to the CDC guidelines on alcohol consumption (https://www.cdc.gov/alcohol/fact-sheets/moderate-drinking.htm). Bottom line, less booze is better. Too much is bad. Where that line for harmful consumption begins is quasi arbitrary, but less is always better.

[Totem Polar]

This isn't really something I know a lot about beyond what is taught in medical school. I would just point you to the CDC guidelines on alcohol consumption (https://www.cdc.gov/alcohol/fact-sheets/moderate-drinking.htm). Bottom line, less booze is better. Too much is bad. Where that line for harmful consumption begins is quasi arbitrary, but less is always better.

Thanks, Neph.

I’ve seen that CDC page before. TBH, I didn’t find it terribly conclusive. My research did convince me to move more towards whiskey, and away from beer, so there is that. (I’m not sure that I work with anyone who doesn’t violate the CDC beer threshold with great regularity).

[blues]

Fuck the CDC. Tobacco, chocolate and booze are all you need.


;)

[Malamute]

...bottle of Johnnie Walker Blue Label. I'm never going to get though it all before it goes bad...

What do you mean "goes bad"?


I may be a complete failure as a connoisseur of alcoholic beverages, so far I cant tell the difference in a bottle thats been open a year or more. Does keeping it in the fridge help? Its what I do.

[Maple Syrup Actual]

Fuck the CDC. Tobacco, chocolate and booze are all you need.


;)

IIRC SouthNarc pointed out at a class a few years ago that while it is well known that there are four food groups, there are also four sources of motivation, and they are as follows: caffeine, nicotine, alcohol, and rage.

That must have been a while back though because I seem to remember him saying this while having a cigarrette in the back seat of a car as two big goons demolished the front half, fighting over a sim gun.

[Maple Syrup Actual]

Really impressed by all of the self-honesty re: drinking.

After all the time and effort I put into drinking there's no way I want only partial credit. Once you start doing the "well, I have a couple, here and there...not really any more than the recommended amount, basically" BS you're just selling yourself short.

[Wondering Beard]

Fuck the CDC. Tobacco, chocolate and booze are all you need.


;)

Sooo ... tonight's dinner?

[Tom Duffy]

What do you mean "goes bad"?


I may be a complete failure as a connoisseur of alcoholic beverages, so far I cant tell the difference in a bottle thats been open a year or more. Does keeping it in the fridge help? Its what I do.

I don’t honestly know. 🤷*♂️ I always figured the whiskey was good for at least 5 years but recently one of the major news networks had a story claiming it started to deteriorate after a year. I had always put Russian vodka in the freezer because that’s what I heard you’re supposed to do.
I’ll check back in 3 or 4 years from now and let you know how it tastes. :)

[Cheap Shot]

I don’t honestly know. 🤷*♂️ I always figured the whiskey was good for at least 5 years but recently one of the major news networks had a story claiming it started to deteriorate after a year. I had always put Russian vodka in the freezer because that’s what I heard you’re supposed to do.
I’ll check back in 3 or 4 years from now and let you know how it tastes. :)


Fake news, its alcohol how can anything with it go bad? Isn't alcohol what museums use to preserve specimens?

If my hypothesis is valid I may die but my body will never decompose! So I got that going for me.....

[Joe in PNG]

Cut way back when I was put on the diet- alcohol is basically sugar, or something, and I'd rather have my cheat on sweets over hootch. Plus, the stuff I like is super expensive anyway.
But, I've gotten into espresso in a serious way since.

[blues]

Sooo ... tonight's dinner?

Pork chops, mac and cheese, Arrogant Bastard. (Not you, the ale.)

[Wondering Beard]

Arrogant Bastard. (Not you, the ale.)

You're sure?

[blues]

You're sure?

Pretty sure. Don't push...;)

[Greg]

I remember reading the Clancy line about nobody over 40 should drink, but it seems like I read it somewhere else.

My annual "Shed the holiday pounds" January routine involves no beer (that's the only alcohol I drink) until I'm back to where I should be. Every year that takes longer...

I am a coffee addict. Do NOT offer me tea in the morning and tell me it's the same thing....

Watching family and friends struggle with alcohol solidified a fear in me of ever being a substance's bitch. (Besides coffee)

[UNM1136]

When I have stuff in NFA jail I frequently refer the Bureau of All Things Fun and Exciting....

pat

[BehindBlueI's]

Watching family and friends struggle with alcohol solidified a fear in me of ever being a substance's bitch. (Besides coffee)

Coffee is a partnership.

[dkv]

I was totally convinced that I was starting my day hungover every morning, and that's why I would get up and feel bagged and foggy and basically like a prematurely grey zombie. I really thought that once I stopped drinking and started exercising every day I'd wake up and feel alive. Instead, I wake up and just feel like I could use a drink...not of alcohol, but of anything, because I no longer end each day by ingesting a "gall-on" or whatever (approximately 3.8 litres in science units or 32 gills USD) of fluid so I just feel slightly dehydrated by the time I wake up.

Do you have sleep apnea? That could leave you feeling like ass every morning.
This link is to a Cleveland Clinic screening questionnaire:https://clevemed.com/what-is-sleep-apnea/patient-sleep-apnea-screener/.

[Malamute]

Orange juice and/or coffee help me feel alive in the morning.

Chronic pain can really mess up your sleep also.

[David C.]

Thanks for this Nephrology. To your knowledge, are typical annual bloodwork panels- "Lipid Cascade" tests and the like- effective in revealing steatohepatitis? I've a full physical coming up.

Covid-related libation flow has been a bit higher at times over the last few months at The Lutherie Arms, too.

And yeah, lisinopril is cheap these days.
(Watch out for micturition syncope, though. Toilets are hard!)

The classic way to stage liver disease is a punch biopsy and a pathologist grading the tissue sample. The better alternative IMO is the FibroSure test.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FibroTest

Mention your concerns to your regular doctor and if they are not responsive, see someone that is.

[Lex Luthier]

The classic way to stage liver disease is a punch biopsy and a pathologist grading the tissue sample. The better alternative IMO is the FibroSure test.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FibroTest

Mention your concerns to your regular doctor and if they are not responsive, see someone that is.

Thanks! No symptoms, just don't want to go there at any point if avoidable. A dear friend & college classmate passed a year & a half ago from non-alcoholic cirrhosis, and her illness was rather hard to watch as it progressed.

[RevolverRob]

There is a “fairly new” procedure for fatty liver, the Fibroscan. It takes about 4-minutes total and is non-invasive. It gives sufficiently good results, not as detailed as a biopsy, but good enough to work for monitoring and initial diagnosis. The fibroscan is what finally diagnosed my stomach pain as fatty liver. Which, unfortunately, I have a genetic pre-disposition towards.

Foods with low saturated and trans fats + eliminating excess sugar (soda and alcohol) and drinking lots of coffee. My docs put me on a diet that includes up to 64 ounces of coffee per day. (NOT decaf). I can’t drink anywhere near that amount without becoming severely dependent. So, I’m basically at 24 ounces a day right now.

[Maple Syrup Actual]

Do you have sleep apnea? That could leave you feeling like ass every morning.
This link is to a Cleveland Clinic screening questionnaire:https://clevemed.com/what-is-sleep-apnea/patient-sleep-apnea-screener/.

Interesting thought but I don't believe so; my wife says she's never noticed me stop breathing, I'm under 50 with low healthy blood pressure, I don't usually snore or anything and although my BMI is around 30, my body fat percentage is only around 20.

But I had actually wondered about this myself just because I wake up feeling like death. Of course, I do have severe primary insomnia, so chances are pretty good I'm just on my 500th consecutive night of only a few hours of sleep.

[ER_STL]

Figured it needed to be added...

https://falloutkualalumpur.files.wordpress.com/2011/01/inception-old-man.jpg

[willie]

Maple, based on my experience giving up alcohol, I will say that one reason you feel maybe like shit is that you had become dependent. You are in the throes of depression and /or anxiety normally felt when one kicks alcohol, tobacco, any of the minor or major tranquilizers, and opioids. You must remember that there are reasons that compelled you to drink. They are very likely still in your head. When doctors determine that patients have physical complaints with no apparent cause, they often decide that these patients are somaticizing, a process causing symptoms in hypochondriasis.
This is real and valid.

Talk therapy helps. Got a friend who will listen? I suggest a family doc consult. Physical problems may exist. Long walks are good. Probability is high that when folks quit as you did, they resume the habit. Not good.

[hiro]

Fuck the CDC. Tobacco, chocolate and booze are all you need.


;)

OK, you got Alcohol, you got Tobacco, I can forgive you for missing out on Explosives but Firearms?

What the fuck?

Call yourself a former Fed?

[DDTSGM]

Wow listen to you guys. I'm a wimp.

Age 10 - the stolen cigarette . one puff and I'm like this shit ain't for me, my buddy Dave is saying 'we'll get used to it' and I'm saying 'you'll get used to it, you moron.' Last one - ever.

First big hangover, age 17, worked at a motel in the restaurant, me and a buddy, scored a roome with the help of a contributing to the delinquency of minors front desk clerk - a college girl. We started early - skipped school after lunch, by the time the girls showed up for our night of debauchery we were both shitfaced. That went well. That was my last hangover.

I can go months without a drink, have a couple, and go another couple months.

I do like a frosty beer after mowing the lawn or working in the heat, but to be honest, a good iced tea is just as pleasing.

Weird the way we are wired.

[Maple Syrup Actual]

Maple, based on my experience giving up alcohol, I will say that one reason you feel maybe like shit is that you had become dependent. You are in the throes of depression and /or anxiety normally felt when one kicks alcohol, tobacco, any of the minor or major tranquilizers, and opioids. You must remember that there are reasons that compelled you to drink. They are very likely still in your head. When doctors determine that patients have physical complaints with no apparent cause, they often decide that these patients are somaticizing, a process causing symptoms in hypochondriasis.
This is real and valid.

Talk therapy helps. Got a friend who will listen? I suggest a family doc consult. Physical problems may exist. Long walks are good. Probability is high that when folks quit as you did, they resume the habit. Not good.

I appreciate the concern but honestly...not super likely. I mean I probably will go back to drinking, that's extremely likely; I'm just stopping to lean out. I'll probably go back to 1-2 a day within a month or so. Although who knows, once I stopped for several years for no reason at all. Well, not NO reason: I just stopped wanting to participate in any normal human bonding experience. But no reason related to concerns about addiction or anything.

But no, I feel exhausted in the mornings because I have severe idiopathic insomnia, have for many, many years, and nothing will fix it. And, of course, I'm old now, as evidenced by my grey hair and successful construction of a replacement version of myself.

Trust me, I would be thrilled if my issues were related to alcohol. Particularly the sleep related ones, that would be the biggest gift on the planet.

[Robert Mitchum]

https://youtu.be/8AHCfZTRGiI

[willie]

I have had insomnia for 40 years. Poor sleep hygiene is one reason. Another is pain. We who drink are often depressed. Depression is a cause of insomnia. Drinking hinders sleep cycles. Married? Kick your wife out of the bed and try sleeping with a dog or cat. When I turn 85, I plan to drink, smoke, take pills, and sit down on custom torpedoes. That is, unless I get dementia and forget to do it.

[David C.]

Thanks! No symptoms, just don't want to go there at any point if avoidable. A dear friend & college classmate passed a year & a half ago from non-alcoholic cirrhosis, and her illness was rather hard to watch as it progressed.

Your welcome. Wish I knew nothing about myself, don't mind sharing what I have learned.

[Kanati]

My experience was that stopping drinking was a wholesale life change for the better. Dropped 25 lbs in the first month or 2, and now down almost 50 from my heaviest 6 years ago, started taking solid shits again after a month or so off the sauce, BP down 35 points after a month, ALT went from 200-ish to in the 20’s, whiskey dick became a thing of the past, I don’t get winded after 2 flights of stairs any more, haven’t had a hangover since the winter of ‘14. I’ve noticed that I just have a lot less to bitch about now than I did with a glass in my hand. Life comma is good.

[blues]

OK, you got Alcohol, you got Tobacco, I can forgive you for missing out on Explosives but Firearms?

What the fuck?

Call yourself a former Fed?

Sheesh, you're working too hard. Have a drink. :rolleyes:

[SecondsCount]

I can't afford to drink because of a car/gun habit since I was 14 years old. Never wanted one to get in the way of the other :cool:

Wishing you the best Maple!

[hiro]

Sheesh, you're working too hard. Have a drink. :rolleyes:

but that I could stop...

[BobLoblaw]

I stopped drinking on work nights but nothing has changed except my level of boredom. It was really annoying at first but now I kinda like the structure. Plus, my tolerance was getting impressively expensive. The downside is I'm considerably more stressed throughout the week.

[Darth_Uno]

I had to give it up about a year ago. Stomach issues. Also cut way back on coffee, and stopped putting habanero sauce on everything. Sucks, but it’s nice to not worry about randomly almost shitting your pants.

Coulda just cut back but that’s not the way I’m wired. Just had to stop.

I told my wife it was “my medicine”, and I don’t mean that in a joking way. After a long day I liked a couple beers to de-stress. Except I didn’t like a couple beers, I liked a lot of beers. Just caught up with me (or my stomach) after a while.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Clobbersaurus]

Sucks, but it’s nice to not worry about randomly almost shitting your pants.


Nice, you have to appreciate the little things in life.

[blues]

We need a "TMI" icon.

[olstyn]

I should probably be concerned that I was readily identifiable mainly through a thread about alcoholism, but I think it's fair.

Well, there's also the fact that your avatar pic is the same as it was pre-name change, and that your witty writing style persists. :)

[Greg]

I had to give it up about a year ago. Stomach issues. Also cut way back on coffee, and stopped putting habanero sauce on everything. Sucks, but it’s nice to not worry about randomly almost shitting your pants.


Kilt + Commando + Move to LA or SF ?

[SecondsCount]

Kilt + Commando + Move to LA or SF ?

Hahahahaha!! LMAO

[UNM1136]

I had to give it up about a year ago. Stomach issues. Also cut way back on coffee, and stopped putting habanero sauce on everything.

When you put it that way, the booze needs to go first!

pat

[LJP]

Dunno... I typically drink 2-3 beers a night. I don’t drink to an impaired level, and that’s generally spread out over several hours. Every once in a while, I abstain, either due to work or other circumstances, and I can’t tell any difference. I’m still exhausted in the mornings, and I don’t feel any better.

Interestingly, a couple of years ago, I gave up beer for Lent... and promptly developed kidney stones. Never again!

I will agree that having kids radically changed my life and sleeping habits. I have never been so consistently tired in my life, and I don’t see that changing for the next two decades or so, assuming I last that long. I never felt old before, and usually still don’t... but some days are worse than others. More stuff hurts more consistently these days, and the hardest physical thing I’ve done consistently is sit in a cramped ambulance for 12 hour shifts.

I don’t see my love of traditional German beer changing anytime soon...

[breakingtime91]

Most of the stupid shit I have done is because drinking. I wasnt an everyday drinker but I would binge and often the goal was to get as drunk as possible. I am sober now and don't miss it most days. I struggle to sleep (thanks deployments) and do miss how well I would "sleep" after several glasses of vodka. One big downside is all of my friends know I am available to pick them up from the bar.. assholes, the lot of them

[mmc45414]

I'm a little grouchy about going down a size on my pants waist. Shit doesn't fit anymore :(I have lost count of how many Wilderness belts I have had, smaller, larger, larger, smaller, smaller, larger...

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk

[RJ]

Reference having a kid late, I was in my thirties when my son was born.

Also:

56130

[breakingtime91]

Reference having a kid late, I was in my thirties when my son was born.

Also:

56130

single dad of two kids almost 4 and 1 1/2. Quite literally say no all day, everyday.

[Maple Syrup Actual]

Well, there's also the fact that your avatar pic is the same as it was pre-name change, and that your witty writing style persists. :)

oh sure, let's all just jump this trolley to the land of make-believe

[mmc45414]

Do you have sleep apnea? That could leave you feeling like ass every morning.
Friday I had a tooth pulled that I think has been causing me problems for years. Pain in my sinuses, causing pain in my tooth, or vice versa, nobody really knows. The tooth (a molar) finally split and got pulled (showed signs of infection) and I felt better the next morning. I am sure this had disrupted my sleep for a long time.

As far as drinking goes, I love it but less is better. Back in 2011 I had a cardiac function problem that was diagnosed as "probably" a virus. But the 12-14 hours I was working every weekday combined with the 8-12 shitty cheap high sodium beers I was drinking every weekday (on the weekends I would have more...) could have made the difference between being sick and being lucky not to be dead. Now I tend to have fewer better beers, though the dang ol' China Virus has been impacting the frequency...

[blues]

Friday I had a tooth pulled that I think has been causing me problems for years. Pain in my sinuses, causing pain in my tooth, or vice versa, nobody really knows. The tooth (a molar) finally split and got pulled (showed signs of infection) and I felt better the next morning. I am sure this had disrupted my sleep for a long time.

As far as drinking goes, I love it but less is better. Back in 2011 I had a cardiac function problem that was diagnosed as "probably" a virus. But the 12-14 hours I was working every weekday combined with the 8-12 shitty cheap high sodium beers I was drinking every weekday (on the weekends I would have more...) could have made the difference between being sick and being lucky not to be dead. Now I tend to have fewer better beers, though the dang ol' China Virus has been impacting the frequency...

I had a molar pulled today...with a small abcess. Tooth was dead. Took a while to get that bitch out. First adult tooth I've lost. I don't know if it will make me feel any better, but it's not doing shit for my wallet. (Need a bridge.)

[Totem Polar]

I had a molar pulled today...with a small abcess. Tooth was dead. Took a while to get that bitch out. First adult tooth I've lost. I don't know if it will make me feel any better, but it's not doing shit for my wallet. (Need a bridge.)

Sorry to hear that, amigo.

[blues]

Sorry to hear that, amigo.

Thanks, 'mano. Small potatoes in the scheme of things, I suppose.

[Wondering Beard]

First adult tooth I've lost.


So that implies you've never played hockey as an adult. :-)



P.S. Make sure to keep the area where the tooth was real clean for a couple of days. It gets bad if you don't and you can guess how I know :-)

Take it easy, mon vieux

[blues]

So that implies you've never played hockey as an adult. :-)



P.S. Make sure to keep the area where the tooth was real clean for a couple of days. It gets bad if you don't and you can guess how I know :-)

Take it easy, mon vieux

Thanks, T. Just trying to get the bleeding to taper off at the moment.

My hockey playing days, except for street hockey, are well behind me. Actually, both.

[Wondering Beard]

Thanks, T. Just trying to get the bleeding to taper off at the moment.

My hockey playing days, except for street hockey, are well behind me. Actually, both.

It should be stop by tonight (or tomorrow morning if it's the upper jaw).

Eat soft food which I'm sure you're dentist told you to do, and everything will be fine.

I've never played hockey, street or ice, but, and it maybe makes up for that sacrilege, I did do a bit of rugby, so I vaguely remember what getting "bounced off" feels like, and played goalie in soccer so getting kicked in the face and ribs, and headbutted in the air is kinda familiar (never lost a tooth doing those however).

[mmc45414]

I had a molar pulled today... I don't know if it will make me feel any better, but it's not doing shit for my wallet. (Need a bridge.)

Just trying to get the bleeding to taper off at the moment.
My guy said if it were the one in front of this one he would recommend some reconstruction, but thinks I can still nourish myself without it.

My bleeding wasn't bad at all, when I went to change the gauze it really wasn't that bloody so I went without.

[Lex Luthier]

Thanks, T. Just trying to get the bleeding to taper off at the moment.

My hockey playing days, except for street hockey, are well behind me. Actually, both.

Ouch. Been there, done that. It does get better. Eschew dry socket as best you can, sir.

[flyrodr]

I had a molar pulled today...with a small abcess. Tooth was dead. Took a while to get that bitch out. First adult tooth I've lost. I don't know if it will make me feel any better, but it's not doing shit for my wallet. (Need a bridge.)

Sorry . . .

Went to the dentist last week. Got a clean bill.

Wife went this morning. Was told she had a cracked tooth and needed a crown. Ouch!

Interesting to see the dentist during this pandemic. She was her normal cheery self . . . other than looking like she had been assimilated by the Borg. Double masks, microscopic goggles (she had come from across the hall, doing some procedure), face shield, full gown. Can't fault her at all, and kudos to her for being brave enough to stick her head practically into patients' mouths all day long.

[Joe S]

Drinking even small amounts of alcohol can impair the quantity and quality of sleep/REM sleep. Don't have a study handy, but they are out there and not hard to find.

[Maple Syrup Actual]

Drinking even small amounts of alcohol can impair the quantity and quality of sleep/REM sleep. Don't have a study handy, but they are out there and not hard to find.

Have to admit I had a couple of pints (literally two, and it was a low-ABV craft beer at 3.8% even) with a friend who came by on the weekend and the quality of sleep I had afterwards was noticeably much worse; I was really surprised. I think I'd adapted to booze sleeping, and now being off of it I'm resensitized, because this sleep was terrible and it was intrusive to the point that I didn't think it was sustainable for more than a couple of nights.

I know that alcohol disrupts sleep but this was so severe; I was really shocked.

Anyway I continue to feel a sense of disappointment that skipping booze has had so little effect on me mentally, but holy cow, I can sure see the fat melting off the waistline. In that regard, totally worth it.

I do genuinely miss the convenience of self-medicating, though.

[Maple Syrup Actual]

I was looking for another thread and stumbled onto this one and ended up reading it which was really, really interesting for me.

I trimmed down quite a bit from being off booze for a while and in general now I do drink less. Hot days working on the boat can still result in pretty steady beer drinking but not nearly so much, overall. I really am down to recommended levels. It made no difference that wasn't calorie-related that I can perceive but that doesn't mean my liver isn't better off, I guess, there could be lots of effects I don't perceive.

But there is one huge difference since then that's unrelated but it's the reason I'm updating this at all: the insomnia is gone. It's nothing to do with the alcohol; overall I drink less but the amount fluctuates a bit and if I'm off for a week I drink more and there's no particular difference. And in this case I happen to know exactly what happened to my insomnia because I cured it, myself. Not treated: cured.

I'll just start by saying I had severe primary insomnia for my entire adult life. It started in January of 1993. I remember the last couple of good weeks of sleep I got. Then that was it. I never slept well again, and it did not matter at all what was happening, how much or when I exercised or how much I stuck to the sleep hygiene guidelines they give you or what I ingested.

I never really liked talking about it on the internet because everyone would say "well have you tried this? It's probably this" and that was always something I had literally years of experience adding or deleting or modifying and I would have to say no, X doesn't help and they would often be like "well you probably need to cut X and Y out of your life together or it won't work" and that would usually be a combination I had tried for months or years and I just got sick of telling people I knew my situation better than they did and sick of the discussion generally and so although it was a defining aspect of my life I didn't talk about it much.

Over two and a half decades I tried every non-narcotic sleep prescription there is. The only thing that made a dent was big doses of something called zopiclone, which apparently is too close to a benzodiazepene for anyone's liking here and after my family doctor left her practice nobody would give it to me anymore and that was that.

So I was at a bit of a loss, because I couldn't sleep again, and once I'd spent a few months even with the drugged sleep of zopiclone, I didn't want to go back to 3-5 fitful hours and misery again. So I was ready to try just about anything.

Up here they legalized marijuana a couple of years ago I think, I'm not sure because I was never into it and in BC it's been de facto legal for years. Getting charged with anything related to it would require large quantities AND ties to organized crime. Stores sold it openly in Vancouver. But it was still technically illegal, just ignored. But then they legalized it and when that happened, it meant that you could also get the vapes and stuff. I don't really like to smoke anything - really occasionally I'll smoke a cigar or pipe tobacco but really rarely. And I never cared about weed so I had no interest in going and buying it and smoking joints or whatever but I thought maybe there's some way this works to help me sleep, so one day I walked into the local store and the owner happened to be there so I asked a bunch of questions and he set me up with a vape pen and a cartridge of 50/50 CBD/THC mix.

At first it took massive hits to slow me down. One did nothing; I was stoned which I didn't particularly like but I wasn't falling asleep. Two was a bit disorienting but also didn't make me feel sleepy, exactly. So I just kept ramping up the dosage. I snorkel and very slightly free dive so I do a bit of breath work so my lung capacity is pretty serious...I'd spend about a minute just breathing at a pace I'd call "deep casual" and then fully exhale, take a massive hit off the pen, and hold for 90-120 seconds. I'd do that three times and be out a few minutes later. Once I woke up from a loud noise shortly after and it was like I was underwater, I could barely walk. No kidding, massive doses. But this phase didn't last that long. I think maybe three months or so, and a few cartridges later, I was running low on whatever cartridge I had and couldn't get enough out of it to get that hammer of sleep effect. But I just waited for a bit and I fell asleep, on an amount that would never have worked in the past.

And so I started tapering off, over about six months. And I just kept falling asleep like a normal person.

I can't remember the last time I used the pen thing, maybe four or five months ago I might have used it once? If I'm REALLY wound up and REALLY doubt my ability to sleep, I have it around, but it just hasn't come up, because now if I think I'm going to have a hard time sleeping I don't really care because it'll be one night out of thirty, not thirty nights out of thirty.


So I don't know what this reflects. I know a bunch of the psychedelics and semi-psychedelics are supposed to have effects on neural plasticity; I'm not sure if that's what just happened here but intuitively that's what it feels like from inside. It feels like I opened up the software and set it to "record" and established a new pattern and now I press play at night and that's what I get instead of the old pattern. I don't know and I don't think I have any way to know.

But man, I spent 1993-2020 not sleeping more than a few hours and grinding myself out of bed in the morning and it was rough. It was like that when I worked on the big tunnel project and started at six in the morning and worked 11-12 hours as hard as I could and it was like that when I worked from home. It was like that when I was at my peak of strength training and like that at my peak of cardio. It was like that when I quit drinking for a number of years and like that when I drank. It was like that on everything but zopiclone, which was fairly effective, but apparently not a long term solution.

But I don't use anything now, I just sleep like a regular person, probably six hours a night, totally normally.

So now I don't feel like death when I wake up. It really wasn't the drinking. It was the sleeping.

[MistWolf]

single dad of two kids almost 4 and 1 1/2. Quite literally say no all day, everyday.

I was a single father starting when my kids were 3 and 5. They’re now grown up and on their own. For every NO, make sure there’s a YES. Better for the kids and much better for you.

[JDB]

Thanks for sharing that.

There are certainly strategies that broadly work for most people (in all sorts of endeavors regarding the human body), but there's a ton of nuance and individual differences. For me, change in diet 3 years ago made a huge difference (going nearly carnivorous). I have almost no trouble falling asleep, but 1x per week I'll wake up at 2-3 in the morning and not be able to get back to sleep.

Haven't been able to figure a rhyme or reason as to why.

[WDR]

I should probably be concerned that I was readily identifiable mainly through a thread about alcoholism, but I think it's fair.

I mean, you asked for it... but YOU didn't change it.

#modsareshit #LittleLebowski #funniestthingIeversawonP-F.com

As to the subject: I don't drink a lot. Less than a drink per week, usually. I will admit to putting a couple fingers of Bulleit bourbon in a glass and topping it off with a local apple cider lately... maybe more than once a week. Probably. But that's a seasonal thing. I sometimes go a month or more without a sip.

The reason God invented whiskey and bourbon was to keep The Irish (me) from taking over the world. I'm still working on my plan... I might get there some day. Sláinte!

[rob_s]

As I close in on 47 and people start harassing me more and more about this unit that “unhealthy” thing I do, I have one piece of advice for anyone reading this that’s still under 30 and considers themself to be even moderately healthy…

Go get you blood work done now.

All the tests in the world at 40, 45, 50… don’t mean shit without a real personal baseline. The healthy “range” they give you might well be total bullshit, and next year might change, or the interpretation might change, or whatever. You need your own personal baseline.

Re: drinking…
I got an Apple watch earlier this year specifically because I was interested in it’s ability to track your sleep. Lo and behold, I can pretty much track a bad night’s sleep after drinking down to the elevated heart rate from processing the alcohol. I’m not ready to “quit” drinking, but it makes me think a little bit more about it for sure. Also, time between last drink and going to sleep matters, which has me turning down that “one last drink” a lot more often. The silver lining, however, is that anything more than two drinks, anywhere close to 2 hours before bed, and the difference on my sleep between 3 and 10 drinks is irrelevant.

Which isn’t to say that the affect on my waking hours is the same…

Side note, the app tracks total sleep, quality sleep, and deep sleep. One other interesting finding for me is that if I can get about 2 hours of “deep” then I can get by on 6 hours of total sleep. If I get no “deep” sleep (like when drinking the night before) then even 8 hours of total isn’t enough.

[4given]

I drank for 30 years. I quit drinking nearly 18 years ago. One of the best things I ever did. Couldn't do it on my own. If anyone really wants to quit, send me a PM.

[Lex Luthier]

I drank for 30 years. I quit drinking nearly 18 years ago. One of the best things I ever did. Couldn't do it on my own. If anyone really wants to quit, send me a PM.

You and willie have both offered, and that's a really kind thing to do. Thanks to you both.

[Maple Syrup Actual]

As I close in on 47 and people start harassing me more and more about this unit that “unhealthy” thing I do, I have one piece of advice for anyone reading this that’s still under 30 and considers themself to be even moderately healthy…

Go get you blood work done now.

All the tests in the world at 40, 45, 50… don’t mean shit without a real personal baseline. The healthy “range” they give you might well be total bullshit, and next year might change, or the interpretation might change, or whatever. You need your own personal baseline.

Re: drinking…
I got an Apple watch earlier this year specifically because I was interested in it’s ability to track your sleep. Lo and behold, I can pretty much track a bad night’s sleep after drinking down to the elevated heart rate from processing the alcohol. I’m not ready to “quit” drinking, but it makes me think a little bit more about it for sure. Also, time between last drink and going to sleep matters, which has me turning down that “one last drink” a lot more often. The silver lining, however, is that anything more than two drinks, anywhere close to 2 hours before bed, and the difference on my sleep between 3 and 10 drinks is irrelevant.

Which isn’t to say that the affect on my waking hours is the same…

Side note, the app tracks total sleep, quality sleep, and deep sleep. One other interesting finding for me is that if I can get about 2 hours of “deep” then I can get by on 6 hours of total sleep. If I get no “deep” sleep (like when drinking the night before) then even 8 hours of total isn’t enough.

I thought all the content of this post was interesting but the "2 deep/6 | 0 deep/>8" thing is really interesting.

I've been listening to Andrew Huberman's podcast recently, which is across the board excellent. He has done a few episodes on sleep and since he is often talking about focus and mental alertness and performance, sleep commentary bleeds into other episodes as well. You may already be familiar with the guy but if not...professor of opthamology and neurobiology at Stanford Medical, and most of his episodes are just him, giving a 90-120 minute research-cited lecture on a topic. He'll usually spend a month on a theme, one episode per week investigating a different aspect of that theme. Super fascinating and highly recommended if you aren't already listening. Anyway, the role of deep vs REM comes up a lot as well as the timing and it does make sense, based on what I remember from listening to him talk while I glue glue to glue (all things are possible through St. Gougeon of Epoxides) that if pre-sleep drink timing is a major factor and 2 hours is the window of elevated heart rate after drinking, that one would lose deep sleep at a greater rate than REM which typically occurs more in the second half of the sleep cycle. I didn't know alcohol would elevate the heart rate and would have guessed the opposite just because it's a depressant but this whole line of reasoning makes me think that in general, use of stimulants that have a multi-hour half life, like caffeine or my favourite, meth, would also preferentially wreck deep sleep.

I realize that the 2/6/0/8 comment was not necessarily in the context of alcohol, it was just a thought that I had about how anything with a half-life would preferentially disrupt deep sleep, because that generally takes place in the first half of the sleep cycle.



I'm also happy about the silver lining thing because I like that it implies you have tried having 10 drinks in the last couple of hours of the evening and I'm picturing you drifting through the house, slurring like a late-stage Hunter S. Thompson, muttering about charts and pencil barrels, your voice mostly indistinct but occasionally rising angrily and peaking on profanity like wumlumwwmwumotherFUCKer yellow visumwmwuwmlwlumjust a FUCKing god damn SR fiftumummlyum

[rob_s]

I've been listening to Andrew Huberman's podcast recently, which is across the board excellent. He has done a few episodes on sleep and since he is often talking about focus and mental alertness and performance, sleep commentary bleeds into other episodes as well. You may already be familiar with the guy but if not...professor of opthamology and neurobiology at Stanford Medical, and most of his episodes are just him, giving a 90-120 minute research-cited lecture on a topic. He'll usually spend a month on a theme, one episode per week investigating a different aspect of that theme. Super fascinating and highly recommended if you aren't already listening.
I'll have to add it to the list.



Anyway, the role of deep vs REM comes up a lot as well as the timing and it does make sense, based on what I remember from listening to him talk while I glue glue to glue (all things are possible through St. Gougeon of Epoxides) that if pre-sleep drink timing is a major factor and 2 hours is the window of elevated heart rate after drinking, that one would lose deep sleep at a greater rate than REM which typically occurs more in the second half of the sleep cycle. I didn't know alcohol would elevate the heart rate and would have guessed the opposite just because it's a depressant but this whole line of reasoning makes me think that in general, use of stimulants that have a multi-hour half life, like caffeine or my favourite, meth, would also preferentially wreck deep sleep.

I realize that the 2/6/0/8 comment was not necessarily in the context of alcohol, it was just a thought that I had about how anything with a half-life would preferentially disrupt deep sleep, because that generally takes place in the first half of the sleep cycle.
My vague understanding is that the metabolizing the alcohol is what gets the heart rate up, so that while you may fall asleep faster you're unlikely to get to "deep", and then some other factors I'm less clear on regarding "restful" sleep, which the app also tracks but I'm not delving into as deeply right now, that is affected by drinking.


I'm also happy about the silver lining thing because I like that it implies you have tried having 10 drinks in the last couple of hours of the evening and I'm picturing you drifting through the house, slurring like a late-stage Hunter S. Thompson, muttering about charts and pencil barrels, your voice mostly indistinct but occasionally rising angrily and peaking on profanity like wumlumwwmwumotherFUCKer yellow visumwmwuwmlwlumjust a FUCKing god damn SR fiftumummlyum

not far off, except these days it's more about my actual jobs than my hobbies. not sure if that's a good or a bad thing....

wumlumwwmwumotherFUCKer drawing logumwmwuwmlwlumjust a FUCKing god damn daily report iftumummlyum

[Maple Syrup Actual]

not far off, except these days it's more about my actual jobs than my hobbies. not sure if that's a good or a bad thing....

wumlumwwmwumotherFUCKer drawing logumwmwuwmlwlumjust a FUCKing god damn daily report iftumummlyum

Disturbingly similar to my own experiences in my new(ish) role, right down to drawings and daily reports.