View Full Version : S&W 640 Pro Series
JodyH
05-31-2012, 01:44 PM
Could not resist trading my seldom used Kahr T9 for a new S&W 640 Pro.
The Pro is cut for moon clips, has a polished trigger, no lock and Trijicon night sights.
Since j-frames are popular with my CCW students I decided to up my revolver skill level and the Pro looks like a great little gun.
I already have more moon clips, CT LG-405 laser grips, AIWB holster, Apex trigger kit, speedloaders and other goodies coming.
Probably won't be my carry gun very often, but I can see it being my occasional ankle BUG and CCW Match range toy.
Could not resist trading my seldom used Kahr T9 for a new S&W 640 Pro.
The Pro is cut for moon clips, has a polished trigger, no lock and Trijicon night sights.
Since j-frames are popular with my CCW students I decided to up my revolver skill level and the Pro looks like a great little gun.
I already have more moon clips, CT LG-405 laser grips, AIWB holster, Apex trigger kit, speedloaders and other goodies coming.
Probably won't be my carry gun very often, but I can see it being my occasional ankle BUG and CCW Match range toy.
Very cool, looking forward to hearing more on this. Been thinking of getting one, but have never actually seen one in person. On the S&W website the under under lug looks not very well blended into the frame.
http://www.smith-wesson.com/wcsstore/SmWesson2/upload/images/firearms/detail_md/178044_01_md.jpg
How does yours compare?
JodyH
05-31-2012, 05:26 PM
It arrives at my ffl tomorrow.
Sent from my MB860 using Tapatalk 2
Shokr21
05-31-2012, 05:42 PM
I've been dancing around a 642/442 for about a year now. I know I want one, I just can't convince myself I NEED one.
My buddy has a 642 and it's a challenge to shoot, but I've only shot it a couple times. I feel that it would be the perfect pocket carry/center console gun.
JodyH
05-31-2012, 06:52 PM
I have a Scandium/titatium 360 Airlite.
Talk about tough to shoot.
A 12oz. .357mag is like holding a wildcat by the balls.
I have a Scandium/titatium 360 Airlite.
Talk about tough to shoot.
A 12oz. .357mag is like holding a wildcat by the balls.
...And asking it to turn it's head and cough.
I have a 360PD. I've shot it with magnums twice, anything more than that makes you a masochist.
Mitchell, Esq.
05-31-2012, 09:28 PM
I shot the 1st run of the TI .38 J-Frames when I was in law school at the S&W range in Springfield, MA.
When I bought a revolver...I got a 640. Stainless steel has it's positives...
JodyH
06-01-2012, 08:11 PM
Very cool, looking forward to hearing more on this. Been thinking of getting one, but have never actually seen one in person. On the S&W website the under under lug looks not very well blended into the frame.
How does yours compare?
Either the picture you posted is a pre-production model, Photoshopped or there's an optical illusion going on.
My barrel and ejector rod shroud blend into the frame perfectly.
Hit the range this afternoon and am very pleased.
With the Apex kit installed the already smooth trigger was lightened up considerably and is probably in the 8lb. range, very nice for a J-frame.
It's nice having real sights on a snubbie, but the rear notch needs to be opened up to let more light in. I also had to black out the rear white rings, they were just too distracting.
Everything (.38 to .357mag) was dead on the sights out to 15 yards.
I was putting all rounds into a 3"x4" target with no problems at 15 yards.
Shot around 100 assorted rounds with no issues.
Very pleasant to shoot with .38's, .357's had more bark and bite but were very manageable.
Once I get the Crimson Trace LG-405 rubber grips on it'll be a great training revolver.
Either the picture you posted is a pre-production model, Photoshopped or there's an optical illusion going on.
My barrel and ejector rod shroud blend into the frame perfectly.
Probably a pre-production photo as it came direct from the S&W website. Good to know.
I have a Scandium/titatium 360 Airlite.
Talk about tough to shoot.
A 12oz. .357mag is like holding a wildcat by the balls.
28 ounce 329 .44 with the 300 grain plus hard cast magnum loads is like the wild cat holding your balls.
28 ounce 329 .44 .
I want one of those SO BAD!!!!!!!!!!!!! Bud's has one new for $800 even, I'm still in debate mode.
NEPAKevin
06-02-2012, 02:05 PM
I have a Scandium/titatium 360 Airlite.
Talk about tough to shoot.
A 12oz. .357mag is like holding a wildcat by the balls.
Yes, but they are very convenient to carry (Scandium/Titaniiums, not the wildcat).
LSP972
06-05-2012, 08:50 AM
Yes, but they are very convenient to carry (Scandium/Titaniiums, not the wildcat).
Exactly. And nobody says you must use .357 ammunition. I've had an M-360PD for ten years. I whacked the hammer spur, pulled the lock mechanism and replaced it with The Plug, added some Ahrends "boot" stocks, and the result is a dandy little pocket piece. Speer 135gr Gold Dots complete the package.
Make no mistake, it is NOT fun to shoot with anything other than primer-fired wax loads. Even wadcutters and light reloads become obnoxious after a while. I did force myself to shoot it enough (1000+ rounds, over several months) to make sure The Plug wasn't going to cause any unanticipated issues.
Now it just gets carried; a masochist I'm not. I have an old first-year production M-640 that I practice with. But the M-360PD and a treasured no-lock M-342 are my main carry BUGs. That 342 is basically irreplaceable, so it pretty much stays in the safe.
.
Didn't Doc post something to the effect of .357's being pointless when shot of a 2" barrel. Something like them being no more effective than .38 +p's out of a certain length barrel. I think it was 2".
JodyH
06-10-2012, 02:56 PM
The 640 Pro got a good workout over the weekend.
I used it as the loaner revolver for the womens CCW class I instructed.
Performed flawlessly for several new shooters.
It was very popular with the older women who had trouble racking the slide on semi's.
The all stainless weight and soft rubber CT grips along with the Apex trigger kit made it a pussycat to shoot.
Sidebar: once again a Taurus semi-auto garnered the "Biggest POS in class" award. I think this is 7 classes straight where Taurus took home the prize.
JodyH
06-25-2012, 10:28 AM
Thread needs a picture.
http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p82/JodyHuggins/photobucket-27261-1340637650893.jpg
Isaac
06-25-2012, 07:47 PM
Very nice; does it fully extract shells?
Exactly. And nobody says you must use .357 ammunition. I've had an M-360PD for ten years. I whacked the hammer spur, pulled the lock mechanism and replaced it with The Plug, added some Ahrends "boot" stocks, and the result is a dandy little pocket piece. Speer 135gr Gold Dots complete the package.
Make no mistake, it is NOT fun to shoot with anything other than primer-fired wax loads. Even wadcutters and light reloads become obnoxious after a while. I did force myself to shoot it enough (1000+ rounds, over several months) to make sure The Plug wasn't going to cause any unanticipated issues.
Now it just gets carried; a masochist I'm not. I have an old first-year production M-640 that I practice with. But the M-360PD and a treasured no-lock M-342 are my main carry BUGs. That 342 is basically irreplaceable, so it pretty much stays in the safe.
.
But if you're going to shoot .38's, then why not just get an Airweight J-frame at much lower cost? Does the extra couple of ounces really make a difference?
JodyH
06-25-2012, 09:10 PM
Very nice; does it fully extract shells?
2 1/8" barrel and correspondingly longer ejector rod knocks .38's out no problem.
.357's come out with a good punch on the rod.
John Hearne
06-25-2012, 10:31 PM
That's sexy. I carried a 640-1 for 10+ years a BUG before the frame cracked.
98z28
06-25-2012, 11:00 PM
But if you're going to shoot .38's, then why not just get an Airweight J-frame at much lower cost? Does the extra couple of ounces really make a difference?
Oh my goodness, yes it does. The 640 is a pussycat with 38's. Much better than an Airweight as far as recoil is concerned. Even with 38's, I would find a 100 round session painful with my old 442. No such issues with the 640. 357's still sting, but 38's are just fine.
LSP972
06-26-2012, 07:51 AM
But if you're going to shoot .38's, then why not just get an Airweight J-frame at much lower cost? Does the extra couple of ounces really make a difference?
If you pocket carry, you bet it makes a difference.
The Ti-Scan guns weigh about three ounces less than a regular AirWeight. On the belt or ankle, this difference isn't noticeable. In the pocket... man. I would have never believed it.
I have been carrying a J frame of one sort or another almost every day since 1978; either on the ankle or attached to the vest when I was in uniform, and ankle or pocket when in plain clothes. Never did the belt carry thing with one (except for range quals), figuring if I was going to go there might as well tote a real gun.
But those three ounces do indeed make a difference in the pocket.
YMMV. ;)
.
Oh my goodness, yes it does. The 640 is a pussycat with 38's. Much better than an Airweight as far as recoil is concerned. Even with 38's, I would find a 100 round session painful with my old 442. No such issues with the 640. 357's still sting, but 38's are just fine.
I was referring to LSP talking about carrying Ti-Sc AirLite guns but only shooting .38's when he could just buy a 3oz heavier Airweight for half the price if he was just going to shoot .38's...not anything to do with steel vs Airweights.
98z28
06-26-2012, 06:41 PM
I was referring to LSP talking about carrying Ti-Sc AirLite guns but only shooting .38's when he could just buy a 3oz heavier Airweight for half the price if he was just going to shoot .38's...not anything to do with steel vs Airweights.
Doh! Carry on. Never mind the goober that didn't read the entire thread...
Sorry guys.
Isaac
06-26-2012, 09:58 PM
Aside from the sites on my 642, the 1/2 ass ejection is my 2nd gripe.
jetfire
06-27-2012, 11:47 AM
I never could get too worked up about the ejection on the little J-frames; I guess my train of thought is that if I have to reload my J-frame in a hurry, I'm probably boned anyway.
tomrkba
06-27-2012, 12:39 PM
Didn't Doc post something to the effect of .357's being pointless when shot of a 2" barrel. Something like them being no more effective than .38 +p's out of a certain length barrel. I think it was 2".
They are not pointless, though you do pay some penalty for the short barrel. The velocity is far higher than 38 Special, but not in the territory of full 357 Magnum. It's in the area of "slow 357 Magnum" versus "fast 9x19mm" or "very fast 38 Special". My Glock 19 spits out Gold Dots at 1150 FPS. Camp reported an average of 1243 FPS out of a 2.5" barrel.
http://hipowersandhandguns.com/38vs357snub.htm
They are not pointless, though you do pay some penalty for the short barrel. The velocity is far higher than 38 Special, but not in the territory of full 357 Magnum. It's in the area of "slow 357 Magnum" versus "fast 9x19mm" or "very fast 38 Special". My Glock 19 spits out Gold Dots at 1150 FPS. Camp reported an average of 1243 FPS out of a 2.5" barrel.
http://hipowersandhandguns.com/38vs357snub.htm
The point being that the extra velocity you gain is minute compared to the penalties.
Whatever you can do with a .357 in 1-7/8th" can also be done by a .38, and without the penalties. Ergo, .357 in a sub-2" barrel is pointless.
Johnny Walker
11-29-2015, 07:03 PM
Could not resist trading my seldom used Kahr T9 for a new S&W 640 Pro.
The Pro is cut for moon clips, has a polished trigger, no lock and Trijicon night sights.
Since j-frames are popular with my CCW students I decided to up my revolver skill level and the Pro looks like a great little gun.
I already have more moon clips, CT LG-405 laser grips, AIWB holster, Apex trigger kit, speedloaders and other goodies coming.
Probably won't be my carry gun very often, but I can see it being my occasional ankle BUG and CCW Match range toy.
Yo JodyH,
Which AIWB holster are you using for your 640 Pro? I just bought one and am researching the AIWB options
JodyH
11-29-2015, 08:25 PM
Yo JodyH,
Which AIWB holster are you using for your 640 Pro? I just bought one and am researching the AIWB options
I sold the Pro to a member on the forum a while back, but I occasionally carry a 442 or 60 in a Side Guard Minimal Clip (http://sideguardholsters.com/holsters/MinClip.htm) holster.
Dagga Boy
11-29-2015, 09:50 PM
Yo JodyH,
Which AIWB holster are you using for your 640 Pro? I just bought one and am researching the AIWB options
I love my PRO. I use a Safariland #25 for pocket carry and a #27 for either AIWB or 3:00 carry. With a belt, pocket carry actually works with it.
1slow
11-29-2015, 11:05 PM
I like these very well, really wish they would make a light weight version.
SteveB
11-30-2015, 06:59 AM
Which AIWB holster are you using for your 640 Pro? I just bought one and am researching the AIWB options
I have a Dark Star AIWB for my 442 (actually a 460); great holster, but when I carry a J-frame, it's usually a 340PD with .38 +P in my pocket.
jetfire
11-30-2015, 02:23 PM
I really like mine as well, but not so much that I'm not selling it. I can't link to auctions here, but if you go gunbroker and search for 640 Pro Series you'll find it. But if I love it so much, why am I selling it, right?
tl;dr I'm trying to 1) clean up guns I don't shoot or carry, and 2) limit my platforms and distractions so I can focus on skill building to get back to where I was and better before I took 8 months off to play Air Force.
Johnny Walker
11-30-2015, 07:50 PM
I love my PRO. I use a Safariland #25 for pocket carry and a #27 for either AIWB or 3:00 carry. With a belt, pocket carry actually works with it.
Thanks for the info nyeti! You were the instigator for this purchase as you mentioned that 640 PRO a couple of times in class... and the model stuck in my mind especially the entire car carry deal and the shock and awe factor you discussed with us. You also mentioned those two Safariand holsters but I needed to be reminded!
Johnny Walker
11-30-2015, 07:56 PM
I have a Dark Star AIWB for my 442 (actually a 460); great holster, but when I carry a J-frame, it's usually a 340PD with .38 +P in my pocket.
Steve B.. thanks for the input. The BOSS actually mentioned the S&W M&P 340.. the one that features the front night site... and that would be another contender on my short list. "New York reloads" with the J frames just make sense... you can stuff quite a few of those little rascals on and about your person.... or run one as a BUG to your favorite CCW gun. Its all good.
Dagga Boy
11-30-2015, 08:05 PM
Steve B.. thanks for the input. The BOSS actually mentioned the S&W M&P 340.. the one that features the front night site... and that would be another contender on my short list. "New York reloads" with the J frames just make sense... you can stuff quite a few of those little rascals on and about your person.... or run one as a BUG to your favorite CCW gun. Its all good.
You need to have "Retro Mike" in class to really appreciate being covered in J frames.
Thanksgiving was a good 640 carry day. Left the fanny pack in the truck while watching the Cowboys latest loss and just wore the 640 in a #27 by itself. I like it for those kind of roles. I also carried mine for about a month over the summer as a primary for an article on living a J frame lifestyle.
JodyH
11-30-2015, 08:09 PM
I also carried mine for about a month over the summer as a primary for an article on living a J frame lifestyle.
You were a walking dead man, you just didn't realize it.
Dagga Boy
11-30-2015, 08:20 PM
You were a walking dead man, you just didn't realize it.
Craig and I had a good discussion about this. For folks who know what predators look and act like...it is not that hard to stay away from them. If I mess up....the 640 is very capable of putting rounds in eye sockets. The key was really staying away from gun free zones....seems like they are magnets for the type of folks I may need more than five rounds to deal with.
mtnbkr
12-01-2015, 05:54 AM
I also carried mine for about a month over the summer as a primary for an article on living a J frame lifestyle.
Where and when will we see that article?
Chris
Craig and I had a good discussion about this. For folks who know what predators look and act like...it is not that hard to stay away from them. If I mess up....the 640 is very capable of putting rounds in eye sockets. The key was really staying away from gun free zones....seems like they are magnets for the type of folks I may need more than five rounds to deal with.
Sucks for those of us that work in gunfire zones. (Oddly enough when I forgot to space gun free auto correct changed it to gun fire. Go figure.)
JodyH
12-01-2015, 08:11 AM
Craig and I had a good discussion about this. For folks who know what predators look and act like...it is not that hard to stay away from them. If I mess up....the 640 is very capable of putting rounds in eye sockets. The key was really staying away from gun free zones....seems like they are magnets for the type of folks I may need more than five rounds to deal with.
Only gun free zones around here are cartel owned bars and dance clubs and the casino... so you're correct. As usual.
Avoid druggies and their associates and you just avoided 90% of the violent crime in my little city. The other 10% is drunks at/from the bars and casino.
Dagga Boy
12-01-2015, 08:22 AM
Where and when will we see that article?
Chris
Still working through trying to get a couple other ones handled. Not having my normal source of publishing has been tough. Much of the industry is very focused on trinkets rather than how to use them. We ll see what happens. Luckily, writing is really a hobby for me and not a means of eating,
For now, read Jodyh's last sentence in post 42....a lot of truth there.
Only Darryl could figure out how to write about being lazy in the heat of TX summer, by carrying just a J frame in his shorts, and both avoid ribbing from his buddies since he is "working on an article," and get paid for it.
Dagga Boy
12-01-2015, 08:42 AM
Only Darryl could figure out how to write about being lazy in the heat of TX summer, by carrying just a J frame in his shorts, and both avoid ribbing from his buddies since he is "working on an article," and get paid for it.
It was actually in Havasu.....in the dry heat:cool:. Its a much different place in the summer, and board short carry is tough..:D.
It was actually in Havasu.....in the dry heat:cool:. Its a much different place in the summer, and board short carry is tough..:D.
Remember these?
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg251/GJMandes/image_zpsdj4vn4qr.jpeg (http://s250.photobucket.com/user/GJMandes/media/image_zpsdj4vn4qr.jpeg.html)
JodyH
12-01-2015, 09:03 AM
A big hairy Viking in board shorts is probably pretty far down on a crackheads "to rob" list.
LSP552
12-01-2015, 09:52 AM
A big hairy Viking in board shorts is probably pretty far down on a crackheads "to rob" list.
Can we get that on pay per view?
Wayne Dobbs
12-01-2015, 10:32 AM
Remember these?
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg251/GJMandes/image_zpsdj4vn4qr.jpeg (http://s250.photobucket.com/user/GJMandes/media/image_zpsdj4vn4qr.jpeg.html)
I love mine in 9mm. Great little blaster that's way accurate for the package size.
mtnbkr
12-01-2015, 10:43 AM
For now, read Jodyh's last sentence in post 42....a lot of truth there.
Yup, that has been my strategy for years.
Still, I always make a point to read snubbie-specific articles and books. I've been carrying one as my main CCW for over a decade now and like to read dedicated articles in hopes of learning something new I was unaware of previously.
Chris
Dagga Boy
12-01-2015, 11:28 AM
You would be surprised how many idiots have thought I look like a good victim.
The P2000SK is my normal gun I carry in the summer at Havasu. That is what I replaced with the 640 last summer so I could have some journalistic integrity of actually carrying what I was writing about.
jetfire
12-01-2015, 11:42 AM
Much of the industry is very focused on trinkets rather than how to use them. We ll see what happens. Luckily, writing is really a hobby for me and not a means of eating,
Sidebar: this drives me nuts. How many times do we need to write a flavor of the month gun article, but nothing substantial about what to do with your gun when shotgunning rounds all over a B27 no longer amuses you? Especially since writing is part of my means of eating...
Dagga Boy
12-01-2015, 12:13 PM
Sidebar: this drives me nuts. How many times do we need to write a flavor of the month gun article, but nothing substantial about what to do with your gun when shotgunning rounds all over a B27 no longer amuses you? Especially since writing is part of my means of eating...
We need our own on line magazine. There is enough talent on this forum alone to actually do something substantial and topic and interest driven rather than advertisement driven.
We need our own on line magazine. There is enough talent on this forum alone to actually do something substantial and topic and interest driven rather than advertisement driven.
Yes please.
Cecil Burch
12-01-2015, 12:45 PM
I love mine in 9mm. Great little blaster that's way accurate for the package size.
Soon, me too :)
Cecil Burch
12-01-2015, 12:46 PM
The P2000SK is my normal gun I carry in the summer at Havasu. That is what I replaced with the 640 last summer so I could have some journalistic integrity of actually carrying what I was writing about.
How in the hell do you walk around in Havasu in the summer? That place in July makes Yuma look comfortable.
jetfire
12-01-2015, 12:48 PM
We need our own on line magazine. There is enough talent on this forum alone to actually do something substantial and topic and interest driven rather than advertisement driven.
Don't give me any ideas, I already launched, grew, and successfully sold one magazine and I'm already getting the content creation itch again.
Don't give me any ideas, I already launched, grew, and successfully sold one magazine and I'm already getting the content creation itch again.
That sounds like an interesting topic all in itself. Something I've considered dabbling in for fun.
jetfire
12-01-2015, 01:41 PM
That sounds like an interesting topic all in itself. Something I've considered dabbling in for fun.
It was one hell of a ride. I learned more about business doing that than I ever did in any school.
I also learned some other valuable lessons that I can't really get into in a public forum at the moment.
Jared
12-01-2015, 02:00 PM
Sorry for thread drift, but...
Guys, please start that magazine. I promise I'll subscribe
jetfire
12-01-2015, 03:03 PM
Sorry for thread drift, but...
Guys, please start that magazine. I promise I'll subscribe
Cool, find me 19,999 other people and we might break even...
Dagga Boy
12-01-2015, 05:07 PM
How in the hell do you walk around in Havasu in the summer? That place in July makes Yuma look comfortable.
It's a very dry heat....except in the monsoons. I essentially live in the water. I live right on the channel next to the London Bridge. Hit the water in the AM and generally am in the water all day. The sights are good.....:cool:
It's a very dry heat....except in the monsoons. I essentially live in the water. I live right on the channel next to the London Bridge. Hit the water in the AM and generally am in the water all day. The sights are good.....:cool:
https://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=lake+havasu+spring+break+pictures&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8
So I hate to be that guy but what's everyone's favorite 640 holsters? I've been leaning toward leather lately.
camsdaddy
12-01-2015, 10:22 PM
So I hate to be that guy but what's everyone's favorite 640 holsters? I've been leaning toward leather lately.
I like my Sideguard minimal clip
Dagga Boy
12-02-2015, 02:27 AM
Pocket-Safariland 25
IWB-Safariland 27
JodyH
12-02-2015, 08:11 AM
Sidegard Minimal clip AIWB.
RKBA or El Paso Saddlery for the pocket.
Cecil Burch
12-02-2015, 01:04 PM
It's a very dry heat....except in the monsoons. I essentially live in the water. I live right on the channel next to the London Bridge. Hit the water in the AM and generally am in the water all day. The sights are good.....:cool:
That would be the only way to get through Havasu. Lived here in AZ all of my life and the hottest I have ever felt was a college summer vacation trip to Havasu in early August. What I vaguely remember (through the alcohol fueled haze) was that I was walking around on the surface of the sun. I was never so happy to get back to Phoenix and only deal with 110 degree days!
Crusader8207
12-15-2015, 11:01 AM
Not having any luck finding a 640 Pro for sale.
Crusader8207
12-15-2015, 11:14 AM
Correction, found one at Top Gun Supply !!!!
Not having any luck finding a 640 Pro for sale.
On,y one I see us out if stock.
Crusader8207
12-15-2015, 02:12 PM
False alarm. Top Gun Supply called and said they didn't have it in stock.
Correction, found one at Top Gun Supply !!!!
NorthernHeat
12-15-2015, 02:31 PM
Is the PRO worth $200 more than the regular 640?
Only 640 PRO I can find is about $750 and I can find a regular 640 for about $550.
Is the PRO worth $200 more than the regular 640?
Only 640 PRO I can find is about $750 and I can find a regular 640 for about $550.
If you want a steel J frame I think it is worth it just for the improved sights.
Are they still in production? I haven't had any luck finding one in a store either?
1slow
12-16-2015, 11:24 AM
Shooters Choice, West Columbia SC 803-791-5498, had a 640 Pro in yesterday, about $715 I think.
Crusader8207
12-18-2015, 05:26 PM
Any recommendations for grips for carrying the 640 Pro AIWB?
Mike Pipes
12-18-2015, 05:32 PM
Any recommendations for grips for carrying the 640 Pro AIWB?
I'm using VZ's and they fit and feel just right
Crusader8207
12-18-2015, 11:26 PM
I'm using VZ's and they fit and feel just right
Thank you!
I'm leaning towards selling mine. I'm not ready to put up an ad, but if someone is actively looking for one, PM me.
Jon
Dagga Boy
01-11-2016, 09:23 PM
Thought I would update this thread. I shot mine a bit with GJM out in Arizona. Ran about forty rounds of Federal 158 gr 38 +P SWCJHP through it in a variety of drills we were doing. Most impressive was being able to hit an 8 " plate fairly consistently at 28 yards, and then keeping all five rounds touching inside a 1 inch square at 5. It definitely is a different animal with 158 and I would highly recommend sticking with this load as it is now obvious Smith sighted these with 158 (probably .357, but the +P .38 is also very close). I will simply use gold dot with my M&P 340 and the heavier 158 with my PRO's. After getting an APEX kit in my M&P 340, this one is next as it really needs it as it stacks sort of weird at the end of the press. Allows for some predictability, but I do not like it.
Overall, I still really like this thing for the snub as a primary role, and it rode the entire trip with me under or between my legs in a Safariland pocket holster. I have a high end custom 1911 getting returned to me at SHOT, so I may end up just bringing this as my primary for the first day in Vegas till I get the 1911.
I have a high end custom 1911 getting returned to me at SHOT, so I may end up just bringing this as my primary for the first day in Vegas till I get the 1911.
You wouldn't carry it without proving it first, would you?
Dagga Boy
01-11-2016, 10:13 PM
You wouldn't carry it without proving it first, would you?
I ve SHOT the gun. It was being fitted with some custom kydex and was supposed to get photo'd for a magazine article that didn't happen. I will likely take delivery at a range day, so I should be able to run some BB's through it. I spent most of today shooting another 1911 with Wayne to try to adjust my 1911 trigger finger. Typical day, when I think about it, I suck, at speed, they usually go where they should. I did go all World Fast Draw though and was .03 off my fastest time ever on an A zone shot from the holster. My best is.49, also from a 1911 out of Sparks leather (1AT) about 10 years ago. Slow by WFDA standards, but makes me happy. Basically, a half second speed rock.
I ve SHOT the gun. It was being fitted with some custom kydex and was supposed to get photo'd for a magazine article that didn't happen. I will likely take delivery at a range day, so I should be able to run some BB's through it.
I incorrectly assumed it was away for gunsmithing, not holster fitting. My bad.
Dagga Boy
01-11-2016, 11:26 PM
I incorrectly assumed it was away for gunsmithing, not holster fitting. My bad.
With my normal track record....that would have been a good assumption. I have two CCO's off right now, one with MARS and one with JT Timmons. Although today I shot my Wayne Dobbs custom, and was quite happy;).
camsdaddy
01-12-2016, 11:36 AM
I'm afraid if one of these shows up locally I will not resist the urge.
Dagga Boy
01-13-2016, 03:18 PM
I'm afraid if one of these shows up locally I will not resist the urge.
That is okay, you will likely do what I did and fall in love with the thing.
Dagga Boy
01-14-2016, 11:11 PM
Got some new shoes on mine. The checkering works well with this gun.
SeriousStudent
01-14-2016, 11:26 PM
Dayum, that looks nice! Cocobolo or rosewood?
Dagga Boy
01-14-2016, 11:54 PM
Dayum, that looks nice! Cocobolo or rosewood?
Cocobolo
camsdaddy
01-15-2016, 08:14 AM
Those are nice. They are the exact same profile as the Uncle Mike grips I have on my 60 and 65. I have to say these take it up another notch in class.
Dagga Boy
01-15-2016, 08:23 AM
Those are nice. They are the exact same profile as the Uncle Mike grips I have on my 60 and 65. I have to say these take it up another notch in class.
The beauty of them...other than sheer awesomeness, class and sophistication, is that I can put a set of the Mikes on it for a long range day and they actually feel the same.
JodyH
01-15-2016, 06:00 PM
The beauty of them...other than sheer awesomeness, class and sophistication, is that I can put a set of the Mikes on it for a long range day and they actually feel the same.
Ok, what brand grips are those?
I have a model 60 that needs those grips.
Dagga Boy
01-15-2016, 06:18 PM
They are checkered Spegels. Long wait and hard to get these days. For similar, Esmeralda is a very good bet and very available with good selection on her website to select what you want for wood.
LSP972
01-15-2016, 06:39 PM
I can put a set of the Mikes on it for a long range day...
Lamer.
Quit dicking around and get yourself a real set of snivel stocks… Pachmyar Compacs. Yeah, yeah, they don't feel the same… but man, do they soak up recoil!;)
.
11B10
01-15-2016, 06:48 PM
Got some new shoes on mine. The checkering works well with this gun.
WOW! That is simply gorgeous.
Dagga Boy
01-15-2016, 09:30 PM
Lamer.
Quit dicking around and get yourself a real set of snivel stocks… Pachmyar Compacs. Yeah, yeah, they don't feel the same… but man, do they soak up recoil!;)
.
Okay baby soft hands.;).
LSP972
01-16-2016, 10:30 AM
Okay baby soft hands.;).
:cool:
.
Chuck Haggard
01-16-2016, 11:08 AM
You're making me regret selling you my 640PRO
bofe954
01-17-2016, 08:38 PM
Will a typical 642 holster work with these?
That gun is getting around...
I shot her, too.
Dagga Boy
01-18-2016, 12:40 AM
You're making me regret selling you my 640PRO
Once I found that it really likes the 158 gr. load is when I became thrilled with it. Very easy to shoot well with the Gold Dots, but wasn't happy with how low it hit. Now....it is really getting carried a lot. Also found it really easy to load in an airport bathroom compared to the semi autos...and more discrete.
That gun is getting around...
It's pretty much home now..:cool:
Chuck Haggard
01-18-2016, 01:13 AM
Also found it really easy to load in an airport bathroom compared to the semi autos...and more discrete.
I've noted that about snubs as well.
Dagga Boy
01-18-2016, 07:57 AM
Will a typical 642 holster work with these?
Some do and some don't. It is sort of hit and miss. I have a Winnie holster for one of mine that is for a j frame, but fits the 640 Pro like it was made for, and the Safariland 25&27 that I use most. On the other side, several kydex and tightly boned holsters did not.
JodyH
01-18-2016, 09:34 AM
I've found the Sideguard Minimal clip holster for a 2.125" Model 60 works for damn near every <2.5" J-frame I've stuffed in it.
Not a very refined looking holster, but extremely functional.
camsdaddy
01-18-2016, 09:43 AM
I also have a sideguard min clip. I have it straight drop and lowered and when I wear my J frame AIWB this is the holster. I agree its nothing fancy but the thin body and the offset clip definitely make it functional.
They are checkered Spegels. Long wait and hard to get these days. For similar, Esmeralda is a very good bet and very available with good selection on her website to select what you want for wood.
Interesting. How do the Esmerelda's compare to the Spegels?
Dagga Boy
01-23-2016, 02:29 PM
Interesting. How do the Esmerelda's compare to the Spegels?
I have found them to be very close. I wish she did more of the larger revolvers.
158 38 or 357?
Once I found that it really likes the 158 gr. load is when I became thrilled with it. Very easy to shoot well with the Gold Dots, but wasn't happy with how low it hit. Now....it is really getting carried a lot. Also found it really easy to load in an airport bathroom compared to the semi autos...and more discrete.
It's pretty much home now..:cool:
Dagga Boy
01-24-2016, 07:02 PM
158 38 or 357?
+P .38. Should have some 357 coming and will check it as well.
Mike Pipes
01-27-2016, 08:31 PM
5661
640 Pro with VZ's just returned from Clark's Custom Guns where Tommy Joe worked his bead blast magic
Dagga Boy
01-27-2016, 09:03 PM
Retro....wish I could give that multiple likes. I am sure it has a far better action than mine as well. How's it shoot for you? I ended up carrying mine all of SHOT and it was very convenient......which worries me.
Mike Pipes
01-27-2016, 09:17 PM
Retro....wish I could give that multiple likes. I am sure it has a far better action than mine as well. How's it shoot for you? I ended up carrying mine all of SHOT and it was very convenient......which worries me.
I have had no action work done yet. It really likes 158 38's and POA/POI at 10 yards. It carries AIWB 3x better than a K frame
CYA Retro
LSP972
01-27-2016, 09:19 PM
What do you guys- Mike & DB- think of those VZ stocks? I've had several folks ask about them, and what little bit of experience I have with them does not include shooting.
That piece looks downright sinister, Mike; very impressive. Bead-blasted stainless… who'd a thunk it???
.
Dagga Boy
01-27-2016, 09:28 PM
I like carrying the VZ grips,,they feel good in the hand.....and you feel every bit of recoil. I have them on some .44 Mags that you do not want shoot much. On .38's they are fine.
Mike Pipes
01-27-2016, 09:30 PM
What do you guys- Mike & DB- think of those VZ stocks? I've had several folks ask about them, and what little bit of experience I have with them does not include shooting.
That piece looks downright sinister, Mike; very impressive. Bead-blasted stainless… who'd a thunk it???
.Thanks,I normally have Eagle Secret Service grips for ankle and pocket carry. The VZ's are TOO sharp for me in those roles but I like the way they feel in my hand because they fill my palm very well and the finger grooves fit my two middle fingers just right.
Sherman A. House DDS
01-27-2016, 10:52 PM
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160128/66d311f7746e42f24c5473912d802c9d.jpg
Hi guys. Frequent reader, infrequent poster. I'm laid up right now after heart surgery and thought I'd share my thoughts on the 640 Pro...
I have Airweight and all Stainless Centennials and Bodyguards, and the 640 Pro is one of my favorites. So many others here have already given valuable info on it, and I won't clog the pipes reiterating what's already been said. I will say:
1. The trigger on mine DRAMATICALLY smoothed out after about 2 weeks of daily dry-fire, and 500 rounds of 130 grain ball.
2. 148 grain wadcutters (my standby defensive load) is a pussycat AND shoots POA in this gun
3. I use the PGS brand, "Hideout," grips that are stippled lightly (by me) and scalloped for speed loader use
4. The rear sight is SHARP. I use a Tucker Coverup with a high sweat guard that keeps the sight from eating a hole in my undershirt
5. I darken the rear dots on the Novak because they are BRIGHT
6. The barrel profile hinders some kydex holsters from working well (duh)
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
camsdaddy
01-28-2016, 08:40 AM
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160128/66d311f7746e42f24c5473912d802c9d.jpg
Hi guys. Frequent reader, infrequent poster. I'm laid up right now after heart surgery and thought I'd share my thoughts on the 640 Pro...
I have Airweight and all Stainless Centennials and Bodyguards, and the 640 Pro is one of my favorites. So many others here have already given valuable info on it, and I won't clog the pipes reiterating what's already been said. I will say:
1. The trigger on mine DRAMATICALLY smoothed out after about 2 weeks of daily dry-fire, and 500 rounds of 130 grain ball.
2. 148 grain wadcutters (my standby defensive load) is a pussycat AND shoots POA in this gun
3. I use the PGS brand, "Hideout," grips that are stippled lightly (by me) and scalloped for speed loader use
4. The rear sight is SHARP. I use a Tucker Coverup with a high sweat guard that keeps the sight from eating a hole in my undershirt
5. I darken the rear dots on the Novak because they are BRIGHT
6. The barrel profile hinders some kydex holsters from working well (duh)
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Great to see this familiar picture. It has been a while. Know that your writings are missed but hope you are well.
LSP972
01-28-2016, 08:46 AM
I like carrying the VZ grips,,they feel good in the hand.....and you feel every bit of recoil.
That's kinda what I figured.
.
LSP972
01-28-2016, 08:48 AM
Thanks,I normally have Eagle Secret Service grips for ankle and pocket carry. The VZ's are TOO sharp for me in those roles...
My impression as well.
.
Mods, please end this thread, as I am battling 640-itis in a big way.
Dagga Boy
01-28-2016, 11:20 AM
Mods, please end this thread, as I am battling 640-itis in a big way.
For me, I feel very prepared for defending myself in a fight with the 640, just not for a shootout.....chew on that and go buy one;).
Mike Pipes
01-28-2016, 11:38 AM
Mods, please end this thread, as I am battling 640-itis in a big way.
I fought the ITIS for a year...now it is my favorite carry piece and i"m wondering why I waited so long.............CYA...Mike
Dagga Boy
01-28-2016, 12:37 PM
I fought the ITIS for a year...now it is my favorite carry piece and i"m wondering why I waited so long.............CYA...Mike
Fighting carrying it all the time is my current dilemma. My rule is if I get in the truck to leave the walled world I live in, I have a real service pistol, spare mags and a BUG. Inside the walls....pretty much the 640 is always close or on me.
Mike Pipes
01-28-2016, 01:46 PM
Fighting carrying it all the time is my current dilemma. My rule is if I get in the truck to leave the walled world I live in, I have a real service pistol, spare mags and a BUG. Inside the walls....pretty much the 640 is always close or on me.
It is sooooooooo convenient to carry!
Dagga Boy
01-28-2016, 03:00 PM
It is sooooooooo convenient to carry!
I think the appeal is they carry small, but feel substantial, and they have usable sights. Plus......they look good with nice shoes:cool:
Mike Pipes
01-28-2016, 03:36 PM
I think the appeal is they carry small, but feel substantial, and they have usable sights. Plus......they look good with nice shoes:cool:
THOSE ARE SOME GOOD LOOKIN TINNY BOOTS
Wouldn't a WC101 be a very close alternative?
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Dagga Boy
01-28-2016, 06:00 PM
Wouldn't a WC101 be a very close alternative?
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Yep
Mods, please end this thread, as I am battling 640-itis in a big way.
Give the new Kimber a chance man.
Dagga Boy
01-28-2016, 07:44 PM
Give the new Kimber a chance man.
You first...
What is better, the Pro or WC Ruger?
11B10
01-28-2016, 08:21 PM
I think the appeal is they carry small, but feel substantial, and they have usable sights. Plus......they look good with nice shoes:cool:
I don't know HOW you pick just one to take with you! Do you have a system or go with whatever mood you're in? Those are great looking pistols, Sir!
Mike Pipes
01-28-2016, 08:23 PM
I don't know HOW you pick just one to take with you! Do you have a system or go with whatever mood you're in? Those are great looking pistols, Sir!
Why limit yourself? Take em both.......CYA
Hizzie
01-28-2016, 09:09 PM
What is better, the Pro or WC Ruger?
I haven't shot a Pro but I have shot a standard 640. I own a WC SP101. IMHO the Ruger SP101 is considerably more comfortable to shoot - once the factory grips are changed.
Dagga Boy
01-28-2016, 09:58 PM
I don't know HOW you pick just one to take with you! Do you have a system or go with whatever mood you're in? Those are great looking pistols, Sir!
I do have two. The pictures in this thread are of the same gun, the photo's are just not doing the grips justice. If I get the light right for the grips, the gun is a blur of reflected light. My other one has a bigger set of blue synthetic Nill grips that is set up as a belt gun with the bigger grips. That is the one that has the Winnie holster and is usually worn with dress slacks.....meaning rarely.
What is better, the Pro or WC Ruger?
I have a Bowen SP 101 that would be on par with the PRO. It is substantially beefier. I carried it a lot for many years, and almost exclusively with full house .357 Magnum. That would be the big difference....the SP101 is like a 5 shot snub K Frame while the 640 feels like a J frame on roids. Hope that helps.
Beat Trash
01-29-2016, 11:58 AM
This thread is killing my wallet...
Mike Pipes
01-29-2016, 12:05 PM
This thread is killing my wallet...
I FEEL YOUR PAIN BROTHER
alohadoug
01-29-2016, 06:35 PM
Question from the new guy...
How reliable is the Pro when fired without the moon clips?
Aloha
1slow
01-29-2016, 07:03 PM
The 4 I have shot were shot without the moon clips. No issues.
alohadoug
01-29-2016, 07:16 PM
Thanks.
Aloha
Isaac
01-29-2016, 08:10 PM
When bullet setback occurs in revolvers, would it be more or less likely with moon clips?
When bullet setback occurs in revolvers, would it be more or less likely with moon clips?
I can't think of any way I'd get bullet setback in a revolver round unless I dropped a round on its nose (or an entire speedloader full of ammo).
A semiauto gets bullet setback if a round is chambered several times out of a magazine with the bullet bumping into the semiauto's feedramp. The revolver doesn't have this issue.
JodyH
01-30-2016, 09:16 AM
When bullet setback occurs in revolvers, would it be more or less likely with moon clips?
Revolvers tend to "pull" bullets, they don't have issues with setback and that's usually a problem only with the ultralight Scandium/Titanium J frames.
The Pro will be pretty much immune to bullet pull issues.
Either way, moon clips have nothing to do with bullet pull.
Even without moon clips the cylinder still supports over half the case head so shooting with or without moonclips really has no effect on how the revolver functions.
Jared
01-30-2016, 09:17 AM
Wouldn't a WC101 be a very close alternative?
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
I picked up a SP101 WC specifically because I couldn't find the 640PRO and wanted a steel snub with good sights. I've been very happy with it. I'd still like to pick up a 640PRO but if it never works out, I'm cool with the SP.
Sherman A. House DDS
01-30-2016, 10:12 PM
Great to see this familiar picture. It has been a while. Know that your writings are missed but hope you are well.
Thank you Sir. I hate to be selfish, but between being a family man, a dentist, keeping the rest of my body fit, and pulling teeth, my time for writing has suffered. I'll be back to it, God willing, soon.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Dagga Boy
01-31-2016, 04:03 PM
Had a discussion with a member here on my thoughts of a SP101 with sights (like my Bowen or the WC) versus the 640 PRO. Just thought I would share those. I look at the 640 Pro as a J frame on roids. A solid 38 +P gun and occasional .357 if some one sees a real need (I don't). A gun I like for a snub as a primary. The SP101 is more like a Detective Special on roids. It could be (in concept, not sure on engineering) a 6 shot .38 like a Det. special. It is a better size comparison. Like the big bore Ruger conversions to 5 shot .454's and bigger. That to me is what an SP101 is. When I carried mine extensively, it was pretty much carried and shot with nothing but .357 Magnum. It was treated more like a snub K frame than a J frame...just with one less shot. That feeling still holds true with me today, except unlike then I now have numerous Colt snubs. I use my Colt snubs with standard velocity 125 gr. .38 Gold dot. My Airweight smith J's with 135 gr. +P gold dot short barrel, the 640 Pro has become a 158 gr. +P gun, and my Sp 101 sits in the vault for the day I really feel the need to carry full house .357 in a small shootable package. Those days are likely gone, but that SP101 has done Yeomans service for me when it was very much "for real" everyday and still holds a very special place.
I tell folks I long for the day when a Cobra in the pocket of my robe or sweats is all I will need in life, or the 640 as my daily carry. I wish we lived in a world, or I lived in a place where that was reality but I am not quite there yet.
Question on the 640 Pro vs my 396PD. The 640 is a bit smaller, but it weighs enough it seems heavy for pocket carry. In a holster my 396 holds seven cartridges. I sure like 7 vs 5?
SteveB
01-31-2016, 07:12 PM
Question on the 640 Pro vs my 386PD. The 640 is a bit smaller, but it weighs enough it seems heavy for pocket carry. In a holster my 386 holds seven cartridges. I sure like 7 vs 5?
FIFY
11B10
01-31-2016, 09:26 PM
I do have two. The pictures in this thread are of the same gun, the photo's are just not doing the grips justice. If I get the light right for the grips, the gun is a blur of reflected light. My other one has a bigger set of blue synthetic Nill grips that is set up as a belt gun with the bigger grips. That is the one that has the Winnie holster and is usually worn with dress slacks.....meaning rarely.
I have a Bowen SP 101 that would be on par with the PRO. It is substantially beefier. I carried it a lot for many years, and almost exclusively with full house .357 Magnum. That would be the big difference....the SP101 is like a 5 shot snub K Frame while the 640 feels like a J frame on roids. Hope that helps.
It sure does help. Did you ever post pictures of the Bowen or "the one with blue grips?" I must agree with Beat as you have increased my wheelgun fever to new level, just with these pictures. Also, I want to thank you for sharing your knowledge, stories (and pictures) in previous posts. Very much appreciated.
Dagga Boy
01-31-2016, 09:29 PM
I really don't pocket carry my 640, that is the M&P340's job.......with that said, I recently had to go into a business with a very high number of heathens and savages lurking around the lot. I had my VP9 in my fanny pack, 340 in a cargo pocket. I simply took the 642 in its safariland #25, put it in my front pocket and walked in the store with my hand wrapped around the grip in my pocket ready to draw. Friendly and unthreatening, but easy to win the "surprise" moment if engaged. This is how I like pocket carry for it, not as an all the time thing. I also use it for coat pocket carry the same way in a heavy jacket. Although the 8 shot 327 I was using has a bigger payload at close to the same weight, it was not nearly as discreet due to size.
Question on the 640 Pro vs my 396PD. The 640 is a bit smaller, but it weighs enough it seems heavy for pocket carry. In a holster my 396 holds seven cartridges. I sure like 7 vs 5?
Which handgun, caliber, weight, capacity are all things I consider when I choose a handgun to wear out the door. Add in my personal ability with that given handgun and what my perceived risk or threat might be. These are tough questions as we can't foresee the future.
For example, not going anywhere special but going to the grocery store, I might be carrying my 8+1 Colt Commander .45 all-day or I might have put on my Glock 17, 17+1 9mm.
OK, not revolvers; but either in my pocket &/or my ankle are often a 442/642 as BUGs.
LSP972
02-01-2016, 02:32 PM
I wish we lived in a world, or I lived in a place where that was reality but I am not quite there yet.
As long as you continue to venture out beyond the walls of your compound, you'll never be there.
That was my retirement dream; a 342, Speed Strip, shorts, and flip-flops. Katrina flushed all that away while it was washing in New Orleans detritus. But between government subsidized housing and other, innovative government programs, all Katrina did was speed up the inevitable. The roaches are winning, and will win, because there are more of them then there are of us; and they are getting a free ride.
.
All this talk and I bought a M640 Pro Series. Amend my comments above to a 642 or 640 (omitting the 442).
5979
Edited to add: photo with Pachmayr grips
5980
With these grips makes a slightly bigger package, but not too bad on my ankle and more shootable for me when shooting .357.
Dagga Boy
02-16-2016, 06:10 PM
New plan.....as I find myself carrying the 640 Pro more, especially at home, I decided to really run two. I picked up a 640-1 that is on its way. It will get the pretty Cocobolo checkered Spegels. I pulled the Nill's of one of my PRO's and will likely sell them.
The plan now is to set up the 640's identical. Both with smooth VZ boot grips. These will really become my beater, shooter, snubs. They will also get APEX kits. I plan to get fairly serious about running these for a few reasons. First, from an instructor outlook, tons of folks carry snubs, and it is important for me to be able to really run and teach them well. Second, I am simply getting older and badly want to quit society. The better I am getting about being a retired old guy, the more a snub lifestyle appeals to me. I am not there yet, especially when I am at my kids school and sports events often, but when I walk, work around the house, and am away from the public, a solid shooting 24/7 snub appeals to me these days.
entropy
02-17-2016, 12:20 AM
"Snub lifestyle". Can go several different directions with that. :)
Sounds congenial. I like that.
LSP972
02-17-2016, 09:05 AM
I am simply getting older and badly want to quit society. The better I am getting about being a retired old guy, the more a snub lifestyle appeals to me.
Yes; I'm having these same thoughts.
The problem is, "quitting society" is not an option unless you have a lot of land in a remote area, and the resources to keep it stocked, etc. I don't, on both counts, but if I did my main problem there is my need for continous medication and access to a few critical doctors; over and above the fact that my bride has totally rejected any plans we once made to "get away". She simply refuses to get too far from the grandchirruns.
Your daughter is coming of age, and your responsibilities toward her will dictate staying "engaged" with society. You're stuck, pal. Welcome to the club.
That said... an AirWeight/AirLite snubby J frame has been my constant companion for many, many years. I have one on my person constantly; unless in the shower or bed. But the stark truth is, a J frame (or any lo-cap mouse gun) just won't cut it for your basic worst-case incident. And I'll wager that you have the same level of preparation, even in your home, that I do... IOW, something more substantial than a snubby revolver within reach at all times. All those Glocks that I don't really like? They are serving a purpose...;)
So, I continue to lug around a "service" piece daily, and have numerous of same pre-positioned. I also have a Plan B, in case the NWO communists win and begin turning up the heat; and those "service" weapons become contraband about the same time we become subjects instead of citizens.
But as long as Tyrone, Hector, Joe-Bob, and Rashid are out there, roaming around looking to do us harm or just take our stuff, and I must expose myself to their potential predations, that "snubby lifestyle" is a last-ditch option for me; much as I would love to live it.
.
NCmtnman
02-17-2016, 10:03 AM
New plan.....as I find myself carrying the 640 Pro more, especially at home, I decided to really run two. I picked up a 640-1 that is on its way. It will get the pretty Cocobolo checkered Spegels. I pulled the Nill's of one of my PRO's and will likely sell them.
The plan now is to set up the 640's identical. Both with smooth VZ boot grips. These will really become my beater, shooter, snubs. They will also get APEX kits. I plan to get fairly serious about running these for a few reasons. First, from an instructor outlook, tons of folks carry snubs, and it is important for me to be able to really run and teach them well. Second, I am simply getting older and badly want to quit society. The better I am getting about being a retired old guy, the more a snub lifestyle appeals to me. I am not there yet, especially when I am at my kids school and sports events often, but when I walk, work around the house, and am away from the public, a solid shooting 24/7 snub appeals to me these days.
This reminds me of an article I read in Recoil Magazine talking about the old school method of wrapping your support hand (thumb) over top of the strong side hand (thumb area) to control a snubby. I cannot for the life of me shoot a snubby with a traditional grip so I'm anxious to try wrapping my thumb over top of my strong hand next time I go out. And the article was written by a retired Border Patrol Agent so I'm gonna have a go at it. I guess the lifestyle, ability, and importance of running a small gun efficiently spoke to me for, you know, the times when a G26/27 is just so overwhelmingly large.
Dagga Boy
02-17-2016, 10:04 AM
LSP972...Thanks sunshine....;).
I am hoping my little angel continues on her career path of "picking who the drones kill", and I can really retire. She also loves the retirement location.
As much as people make fun of the fanny pack....it has a service pistol, spare magazine, badge and creds., a tourniquet, CPR mask, and soft cuffs.....and a j frame and reload in a pocket and several blades. I have had enough off duty situations over the years that I am fricking paranoid about not having what I think is the "minimum". More and more, that minimum is changeling, it is just a matter of staying away from people. I think that is why I started to always pair "lifestyle" with snubby. I started looking at my older relatives and family. They do live that lifestyle. On the other hand, as much as I try.....I keep seeing Tom Givens in my future...the guy who doesn't care about wearing a fishing vest and yea, I have a real gun and a back up....
Like LSP972, I think my biggest fear is the NWO communists as well as I do not trust my fellow Americans to stop voting for people who are deciding what they "need" for them. I have a feeling that semi-automatic firearms are at the top of most politicians things we do not need.
Dagga Boy
02-17-2016, 10:19 AM
This reminds me of an article I read in Recoil Magazine talking about the old school method of wrapping your support hand (thumb) over top of the strong side hand (thumb area) to control a snubby. I cannot for the life of me shoot a snubby with a traditional grip so I'm anxious to try wrapping my thumb over top of my strong hand next time I go out. And the article was written by a retired Border Patrol Agent so I'm gonna have a go at it. I guess the lifestyle, ability, and importance of running a small gun efficiently spoke to me for, you know, the times when a G26/27 is just so overwhelmingly large.
I have found that the only folks the thumb over the hand really works for is those with very large hands.
The G26/27 thing is interesting, as I have been down this road with the sub compacts. I love my HK2000sk, and have very good luck with the little Glocks. My problem is I refuse to carry these things stuffed in a pocket, so that means a real holster, belt, etc....at which point, I will carry something bigger because it doesn't make much difference. Where I relegate the little semi's has been ankle carry, or in small off body holsters.
Where I have changed on the snubs is in the true Contact fight range. Inside of a couple feet, I think the Centennial based snubs are a very good option for both access and getting rounds into an opponent when in contact....and to keep functioning. A group of pretty experienced folks were comparing notes recently and we came to the conclusion that we have seen lots of semi autos malfunction in these scenarios. On the range, no question the modern semi-auto is far more reliable and shootable. In actual real world confrontations, that does not bear out when at contact distance. This is where the snubs work well and I am begining to really appreciate them more now that every idiot with a TV fancy's that they are a MMA fighter and are more inclined to get wrapped up.
Beat Trash
02-17-2016, 10:28 AM
Nyeti and LSP972, Thanks guys, you are both an inspiration and a bright ray of sunshine for those close to retirement.
I'm at the point where I could retire if I wanted to, but realistically, it will be a couple more years. Call it close enough to see the light at the end of the tunnel. The move south to the land of sunshine and a 642 in the pocket. (Trust me, shoveling snow is highly overrated!) Maybe I would have carried a 640 PRO as a belt gun. The "J-Frame Lifestyle" was actually one of my retirement plans long ago.
But too many years of inter-city law Enforcement and keeping up with current events doesn't bode well for my faith in my fellow man. For now, my force that my Glock 19 will remain my carry gun on my own time. Although I am very close to going over to the dark side of H&K.
Yeti, if I understood your post, you are planning on carrying two 640's when at home. May I ask how you plan on carrying them? Both carried IWB? One IWB and one in a pocket? Just curious.
LSP972
02-17-2016, 10:40 AM
Inside of a couple feet, I think the Centennial based snubs are a very good option for both access and getting rounds into an opponent when in contact....and to keep functioning.... we have seen lots of semi autos malfunction in these scenarios. .
Exactly. I have been saying this for YEARS. But everybody is an expert now, and in their mind I'm just an old fart "stuck in the 70s"; so I quit saying it and nowadays just smile and nod my head a lot. I wish them well with their little designer .380s.
Fishing vest??? Watch out; as soon as Tom reads that, he'll be contracting a drone strike on you!:cool:
The man has sartorial standards, for Pete's sake...
.
Beat Trash
02-17-2016, 10:46 AM
LSP, what grips are you running on your Centennial? I'm using the old Uncle Mikes boot grip that came from the factory with my 642. Not too impressed, but still use it because I haven't found anything that works as well and doesn't adversely effect conceivability. I was wondering if the VZ grips are any better?
Eastex
02-17-2016, 11:06 AM
J Frame lifestyle sounds like a good blog name. Preparedness is critical but so is being smart with where you go and when you go there. I wonder how much risk could be avoided by just staying home Saturday's and not going out after 5?
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Dagga Boy
02-17-2016, 11:18 AM
Exactly. I have been saying this for YEARS. But everybody is an expert now, and in their mind I'm just an old fart "stuck in the 70s"; so I quit saying it and nowadays just smile and nod my head a lot. I wish them well with their little designer .380s.
Fishing vest??? Watch out; as soon as Tom reads that, he'll be contracting a drone strike on you!:cool:
The man has sartorial standards, for Pete's sake...
.
I spent a lot of years in a fishing vest and have several. My really good "Safari Vest" pulled Yeoman's duty working the high end protection stuff. Tom pulls the look off well with the hat and super model he usually has on his arm...:o.
LSP, what grips are you running on your Centennial? I'm using the old Uncle Mikes boot grip that came from the factory with my 642. Not too impressed, but still use it because I haven't found anything that works as well and doesn't adversely effect conceivability. I was wondering if the VZ grips are any better?
I love the a Spegel boot grips and the Mikes version. The problem is the Spegels are getting touh to get, and expensive enough that beating the crap out of them is not a good things. The only issue with the mikes is that like most rubber grips they are sticky with clothing. The VZ's are smooth and hard, so they work well concealed and don't get hung up, yet you can hang on to them fairly well. The key is keeping these guns snag free.
J Frame lifestyle sounds like a good blog name. Preparedness is critical but so is being smart with where you go and when you go there. I wonder how much risk could be avoided by just staying home Saturday's and not going out after 5?
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Southnarc and I had a good discussion on this. We laugh that we could actually live a solid J frame lifestyle, because we know what crooks look like, act like, and can easily spot them.....thus it makes it easier to avoid them. I have an up coming article on this and the biggest key to carrying a snub as a primary is you really have to put some serious effort into your situational awareness. For some of us, this comes from decades of profiling crooks. For most folks, they really need to make a serious effort at this.
Dagga Boy
02-17-2016, 11:30 AM
Yeti, if I understood your post, you are planning on carrying two 640's when at home. May I ask how you plan on carrying them? Both carried IWB? One IWB and one in a pocket? Just curious.
The plan is to simply have two. One is in a fanny pack I use to walk and is easily grabbed. The other has a couple holsters for both IWB or pocket. I could carry both, but the goal is to simply be consistent. If carrying both I would be better with the VP9 for the amount of effort. I could see using both if traveling to communist states. I intend to shoot them more, especially one handed, carry more in the vehicle (under leg), and just dedicate more time and effort as they are much easier on my arthritis than the 340's. I have been good about carrying a Colt Agent at home all the time, but as much as I love the Agent and Cobra, I am having a reality check that the Colts are getting a little too classic. I am working on a deal for a M&P 340 with a Ti cylinder that may be the "Rule 1" replacement for the Agent and Cobra that are currently fulfilling that role, and then keeping the 640's also closer to me.
The whole inner city LE tends to mess your head up in retirement. It is hard to drop the "world view". I have been trying to spend more time in non city places and really hope I can live outside the urban world sooner rather than later.
Eastex
02-17-2016, 12:05 PM
I can see where the inner city would work on someone's mindset. I saw someone comment that a Glock 17 and two spare mags was a backup if you worked in downtown Memphis. The message I took from that was why in the world would you want to work somewhere like that! I've been blessed to live and work in fairly rural areas here in east Texas. People that aren't from around here complain about everyone "having their nose in your business" but the upside is that if strangers have been driving down the dirt road late at night there's a great chance the neighbors have spotted them and will ask if you've seen them. The two heads are better than one theory gets multiplied out here, if someone's headed up "copperhead road" you'll hear about it.
There's a 642 Talo II edition sitting in my pocket right now so I guess I'm getting a head start on the J Frame lifestyle.
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peterb
02-17-2016, 12:19 PM
Speaking of the rural life and j-frame lifestyle....
Here are a few numbers from our 2014 town report on the police department activity for the year:
Accidents 22
Animal complaints 55
Burglaries 6
Criminal mischief 8
Domestic disturbances 8
Motor vehicle stops 165
Thefts 10
It's not Mayberry, but we'll take it. :-)
Crusader8207
02-17-2016, 12:46 PM
Since my work dictates that I dress professionally (minimum of khakis with a tucked in shirt on Fridays, mostly suits/sport jackets during the week) and the areas I tend to work in are more affluent and upscale I have started to move towards the "J lifestyle". Carrying a duty sized firearm can be difficult with the exception of off body carry. I have done it but felt awkward always carrying a briefcase everywhere. I now carry a 340 M&P in my right pocket with a 442 with Crimson Trace laser grip on my right ankle both with 158 Grain Remington SWCHP + p everyday that I am working. I find it very easy to carry this way in non permissive environments, I can carry it in Kalifornistan (where most of my business is conducted these days) with LEOSA credentials, and is easy to slip it into my pocket when I am doing things around the house. The 340 M&P has become my favorite j frame, as much as I love the 640 Pro I find it a little too heavy to carry every day.
Eastex
02-17-2016, 01:01 PM
Southnarc and I had a good discussion on this. We laugh that we could actually live a solid J frame lifestyle, because we know what crooks look like, act like, and can easily spot them.....thus it makes it easier to avoid them. I have an up coming article on this and the biggest key to carrying a snub as a primary is you really have to put some serious effort into your situational awareness. For some of us, this comes from decades of profiling crooks. For most folks, they really need to make a serious effort at this.
That sounds like a article I'd like to read, let us know where and when it gets published if you could. I wish there were more risk avoidance classes and articles and less "tactical" stuff but I guess people go where the excitement and money is.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Dagga Boy
02-17-2016, 02:48 PM
Speaking of the rural life and j-frame lifestyle....
Here are a few numbers from our 2014 town report on the police department activity for the year:
Accidents 22
Animal complaints 55
Burglaries 6
Criminal mischief 8
Domestic disturbances 8
Motor vehicle stops 165
Thefts 10
It's not Mayberry, but we'll take it. :-)
That would have been a boring day at the old place. I have found that many urban cops have a very warped perception of "risk" and what you are preparing for daily. Most of the world is not as bad as we think.
Since my work dictates that I dress professionally (minimum of khakis with a tucked in shirt on Fridays, mostly suits/sport jackets during the week) and the areas I tend to work in are more affluent and upscale I have started to move towards the "J lifestyle". Carrying a duty sized firearm can be difficult with the exception of off body carry. I have done it but felt awkward always carrying a briefcase everywhere. I now carry a 340 M&P in my right pocket with a 442 with Crimson Trace laser grip on my right ankle both with 158 Grain Remington SWCHP + p everyday that I am working. I find it very easy to carry this way in non permissive environments, I can carry it in Kalifornistan (where most of my business is conducted these days) with LEOSA credentials, and is easy to slip it into my pocket when I am doing things around the house. The 340 M&P has become my favorite j frame, as much as I love the 640 Pro I find it a little too heavy to carry every day.
This is sort of the direction I am going, but for different reasons. The VP9 and and all the additional "stuff" is mostly in a fanny pack and thus sort of off body. I believe the trade off to this is to have a solid contact range set up, which is an arena that the 640's and 340's do well in. The M&P 340 that lives in my cargo pocket is so light and unobtrusive. If my hands were in better shape, I could easily live with a pair of these. Wayne shoots his at a phenomenal level. For me, I shoot it fine, but...it is not something I want to run a box of 50 rounds through. I can easily run a box of .38's through the 640. This is the biggest difference for me.
That sounds like a article I'd like to read, let us know where and when it gets published if you could. I wish there were more risk avoidance classes and articles and less "tactical" stuff but I guess people go where the excitement and money is.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Most folks carry an airweight J frame as a lucky rabbits foot. I am of the opinion they are a viable self defense tool, but, because you are giving up a lot of capability for comfort and concealability, then you need to make that balance up with situational awareness, not going anywhere you feel like, and you have to actual spend more time practicing, and maintaining skills. This will likely anger many, but challenging the idea that having a J frame on you does not make you a sheepdog is a reality check that needs to happen.
LSP972
02-17-2016, 02:52 PM
LSP, what grips are you running on your Centennial?
Ahrends finger groove boots on the EDC M-360PD; old style skinny diamond magnas with a T-Grip on the M-640 practice mule. The latter "feels" better, and allows more control; the former tapers toward the butt and thus conceals better, while still giving me enough to hang on to.
.
LSP972
02-17-2016, 02:54 PM
Tom pulls the look off well with the hat and super model he usually has on his arm...:o.
.
Yes, but my point was that what he wears is a sort of "dress vest", that I believe he had a hand in designing. It damn sure ain't no fishing vest...;)
.
Irelander
02-17-2016, 03:39 PM
I should have learned by now to not click on threads like this. I am now frantically mentally searching my firearms inventory for stuff to sell to get one of these. I have been on the fence for a while about getting a J-frame. This looks like the one I have been waiting for...usable sights. :D
I should have learned by now to not click on threads like this. I am now frantically mentally searching my firearms inventory for stuff to sell to get one of these. I have been on the fence for a while about getting a J-frame. This looks like the one I have been waiting for...usable sights. :D
Be warned they're addictive. I'm pretty sure it's impossible to only own one.
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Dagga Boy
02-17-2016, 04:44 PM
Be warned they're addictive. I'm pretty sure it's impossible to only own one.
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No kidding....:cool:
I have always been fairly OCD about having multiples of my serious tools. The 640 PRO has reached that level of serious tool at this point. That is a good thing I guess.
Cecil Burch
02-17-2016, 06:59 PM
Where I have changed on the snubs is in the true Contact fight range. Inside of a couple feet, I think the Centennial based snubs are a very good option for both access and getting rounds into an opponent when in contact....and to keep functioning. A group of pretty experienced folks were comparing notes recently and we came to the conclusion that we have seen lots of semi autos malfunction in these scenarios. On the range, no question the modern semi-auto is far more reliable and shootable. In actual real world confrontations, that does not bear out when at contact distance. This is where the snubs work well and I am begining to really appreciate them more now that every idiot with a TV fancy's that they are a MMA fighter and are more inclined to get wrapped up.
I had a long discussion with Chuck Haggard about the concept of possibly carrying two snubs, one available to each hand. It could cover the worst case entangled fight scenarios imaginable.
Like a small fixed blade knife carried close to centerline, there is a niche where the snubby shines above almost all other guns. Like the small knife, the snub can get deployed sometimes where a bigger gun just can't. And it is much harder to foul the firing cycle.
Is it the best general purpose answer? No, but it is a damn good answer for a specific set of circumstances.
Dagga Boy
02-17-2016, 11:06 PM
I had a long discussion with Chuck Haggard about the concept of possibly carrying two snubs, one available to each hand. It could cover the worst case entangled fight scenarios imaginable.
Like a small fixed blade knife carried close to centerline, there is a niche where the snubby shines above almost all other guns. Like the small knife, the snub can get deployed sometimes where a bigger gun just can't. And it is much harder to foul the firing cycle.
Is it the best general purpose answer? No, but it is a damn good answer for a specific set of circumstances.
I wasn't all that big on carrying a snub when off duty or in retirement, mainly because I am pretty religious about having a small fixed blade or two accessable for the scenarios where I envisioned a BUG snubby being used. I often call my Strider DB/ or HiTS knife as a J frame that never needs a reload and doesn't malfunction. I am still carrying the knives, but have added the snub revolver as it also fullfills a couple other roles, and with almost no real inconvenience with how I am carrying the M&P340.
One of the many reasons I enjoyed your class was I was able to pressure test the AIWB snub. I never had an issue accessing it, deploying it, or losing it. This was not the case with others with semi auto service guns. In one of the scenarios, my opponent was totally unaware that I even accessed the snub and had it pressed into his spine.
Like I have said I the past, I like guns like the 640 for a fight, but would prefer something else for a shooting.
Irelander
02-18-2016, 10:49 AM
Is this the Apex kit you guys are putting in your J-frames?
https://store.apextactical.com/WebDirect/Products/Details/192058
Mike Pipes
02-18-2016, 11:05 AM
LSP972 said LUG around a full size service weapon.That is what i like about the 640pro and the other j"s i carry daily,I"m not lugging them around and FEEL well armed.....CYA
Cecil Burch
02-18-2016, 11:50 AM
I wasn't all that big on carrying a snub when off duty or in retirement, mainly because I am pretty religious about having a small fixed blade or two accessable for the scenarios where I envisioned a BUG snubby being used. I often call my Strider DB/ or HiTS knife as a J frame that never needs a reload and doesn't malfunction. I am still carrying the knives, but have added the snub revolver as it also fullfills a couple other roles, and with almost no real inconvenience with how I am carrying the M&P340.
..........
Like I have said I the past, I like guns like the 640 for a fight, but would prefer something else for a shooting.
The small fixed blade carried close to centerline is still king for deployment in an entanglement. It can get out and in play when literally no other tool can. Even in the most effed up positions, as long as you have your elbows tight to your ribs, you have a solid shot at getting the blade deployed.
The AIWB snub is a close second, and better than any other weapon/carry position outside of the knife. I think there are a couple of THEORETICAL scenarios where the snub may be more effective than the fixed blade. I say theoretical because it is too hard to quantify/qualify what I am about to write, even after years and years of working the problem with quite literally thousands of different people going through the training, along with constant research into real world usage.
1) Very often you hear about the guy who was stabbed and didn't know it - "I thought he was punching me in the back/ribs/chest" is the common thread. So it may be possible that you get the knife out and use it, and it has no effect in the entanglement. MAYBE, a snub in that exact situation might alert the other guy that he is being hurt in another manner than being punched by the gunshot. MAYBE that will help to effect a stop. MAYBE (you get the gist of what I am saying here with that caveat).
2) If one of the parties manages to disengage from the entanglement, it would probably be harder for the knife user to be as effective in controlling the action because he needs contact distance to use the blade. But a snub would be even better as the distance opens up.
Both of those are again, theoretical thoughts that may prove to be true down the road. I am not sure yet. Certainly, my own choice illustrates what I believe - I always have at least one small fixed blade knife on me. THEN, I suit up the rest of the gear.
Cecil Burch
02-18-2016, 11:56 AM
One of the many reasons I enjoyed your class was I was able to pressure test the AIWB snub. I never had an issue accessing it, deploying it, or losing it. This was not the case with others with semi auto service guns. In one of the scenarios, my opponent was totally unaware that I even accessed the snub and had it pressed into his spine.
I think your scenario is a good illustration overall. The AIWB carried snub was very useful, but you still solved the prob elm first with positional control. THAT gave you the ability to get the snub in play. And from your control, even if your partner had seen it, you still would have been able to use it with interruption, because you used your software skills to get you to the hardware usage.
I only mention that because I don't want anyone to think that I am advocating some kind of miracle work with a blade or snub. You still need to deal with the immediate issue with H2H skillset BEFORE the weapon should be brought into play. A knife, even something awesome like a Clinchpick, introduced into the fight when you have no control over what your opponent is doing, is a good method for letting him gain access to your weapon.
Le Français
02-18-2016, 12:04 PM
I only mention that because I don't want anyone to think that I am advocating some kind of miracle work with a blade or snub. You still need to deal with the immediate issue with H2H skillset BEFORE the weapon should be brought into play. A knife, even something awesome like a Clinchpick, introduced into the fight when you have no control over what your opponent is doing, is a good method for letting him gain access to your weapon.
This is a great point. As my MMA instructor says, "position before submission."
alohadoug
02-18-2016, 02:57 PM
One of the many reasons I enjoyed your class was I was able to pressure test the AIWB snub. I never had an issue accessing it, deploying it, or losing it. This was not the case with others with semi auto service guns. In one of the scenarios, my opponent was totally unaware that I even accessed the snub and had it pressed into his spine.
Which holster were you using?
Aloha
Moonshot
02-19-2016, 10:36 AM
This has been an interesting and informative thread, particularly when it started discussing the "snub lifestyle", as I find myself also beginning to consider a snub lifestyle.
One question I do have for Nyeti. You stated...
I use my Colt snubs with standard velocity 125 gr. .38 Gold dot. My Airweight smith J's with 135 gr. +P gold dot short barrel, the 640 Pro has become a 158 gr. +P gun, and my Sp 101 sits in the vault for the day I really feel the need to carry full house .357 in a small shootable package.
In earlier threads, the effectiveness of various HPs out of sub-2" barrels was discussed. Even some of the newer designer HPs failed to expand through barriers, and it was mentioned that a HP that fails to expand causes less wounding than a WC. With the WCs ease of shooting, accuracy, penetration, and cutting a full caliber hole, loading the snub with WCs began making more and more sense.
Most Js have a 1.875" barrel. The 640 Pro series has a 2.125" barrel. That is only an extra 1/4" of barrel - I have a hard time believing that extra 1/4" of barrel will make any difference in bullet performance.
I have switched my 642's carry load from the 135gr +P SBGD to 148gr WCs. I can see a 640 Pro in my future, but does it make sense to load it up with any HP? Considering the performance envelope of the snub, if the WC shoots POA to POI, and if it penetrates sufficiently, does it make sense to load up the PRO with harder kicking HPs that may not open up? I am talking .38s here, not magnums.
To put this another way, I have always understood the 158gr LSWCHP +P worked well out of a 4" barrel, but not so much from a snub. What does this load give you out of a 640 Pro that a WC won't give?
Dagga Boy
02-19-2016, 05:12 PM
I think your scenario is a good illustration overall. The AIWB carried snub was very useful, but you still solved the prob elm first with positional control. THAT gave you the ability to get the snub in play. And from your control, even if your partner had seen it, you still would have been able to use it with interruption, because you used your software skills to get you to the hardware usage.
I only mention that because I don't want anyone to think that I am advocating some kind of miracle work with a blade or snub. You still need to deal with the immediate issue with H2H skillset BEFORE the weapon should be brought into play. A knife, even something awesome like a Clinchpick, introduced into the fight when you have no control over what your opponent is doing, is a good method for letting him gain access to your weapon.
Unlike others...I actually really listened to Cecil as he heavily emphasized no bringing weapons in to the equation till you can cleanly get the weapon into play. Cecil does an excellent job of both telling you what works,,and then letting you experience the conditions so you understand clearly how bad things can get if you introduce a weapon I to a fight too early. With that said I found the snub and small centerline fixed blade will give you opportunity for success sooner than other means.
Which holster were you using?
Aloha
I borrowed a DSG AIWB from Chuck to pressure test in the class.
Moonshot, the 158 gr. +P HP's do work well from a snub.
Chuck Haggard
02-19-2016, 06:47 PM
Unlike others...I actually really listened to Cecil as he heavily emphasized no bringing weapons in to the equation till you can cleanly get the weapon into play. Cecil does an excellent job of both telling you what works,,and then letting you experience the conditions so you understand clearly how bad things can get if you introduce a weapon I to a fight too early. With that said I found the snub and small centerline fixed blade will give you opportunity for success sooner than other means.
I borrowed a DSG AIWB from Chuck to pressure test in the class.
Moonshot, the 158 gr. +P HP's do work well from a snub.
You and Cecil might recall one of the guys I was rolling with went for weapons a bit too early. He lost his gun, then I made him stab himself with his own knife.
alohadoug
02-19-2016, 06:47 PM
Unlike others...I actually really listened to Cecil as he heavily emphasized no bringing weapons in to the equation till you can cleanly get the weapon into play. Cecil does an excellent job of both telling you what works,,and then letting you experience the conditions so you understand clearly how bad things can get if you introduce a weapon I to a fight too early. With that said I found the snub and small centerline fixed blade will give you opportunity for success sooner than other means.
I borrowed a DSG AIWB from Chuck to pressure test in the class.
Moonshot, the 158 gr. +P HP's do work well from a snub.
How did that holster work for you?
Thanks
Dagga Boy
02-19-2016, 07:08 PM
How did that holster work for you?
Thanks
It was not a favorite.....because I am fat. I know Chuck and many others love them. It was effective for what I was doing and stayed put.
Dagga Boy
02-19-2016, 07:29 PM
Here is the new configuration on the 640 Pro's.
Dagga Boy
02-19-2016, 07:31 PM
And the new fancy pants goin to church 640-1 with the Spegels.
11B10
02-19-2016, 07:41 PM
That sounds like a article I'd like to read, let us know where and when it gets published if you could. I wish there were more risk avoidance classes and articles and less "tactical" stuff but I guess people go where the excitement and money is.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I, too, anxiously await the article you spoke of ^^^ - I need all the help I can get with this stuff. Thanks in advance.
tanner
02-19-2016, 08:23 PM
Sigh... Put the call into my LGS last week. Soon I hope to add a pic of my own to this thread.
Cecil Burch
02-19-2016, 11:32 PM
You and Cecil might recall one of the guys I was rolling with went for weapons a bit too early. He lost his gun, then I made him stab himself with his own knife.
Yup. The nice thing is that I highly doubt he will ever make that mistake again. You made sure the lesson stuck. Literally AND figuratively! But better that he learned it in training and not when it counted for real.
I've had plenty of guys make that mistake the first time. I have never had anyone make it a second time, even if they hadn't trained in the intervening time between courses.
Cecil Burch
02-19-2016, 11:33 PM
Here is the new configuration on the 640 Pro's.
Seriously, I was pretty satisfied with my battery. Until now. After 20 pages, you finally got me sucked in.
Damn it.
Beat Trash
02-20-2016, 11:09 AM
Ok, stupid question here. Do the newly manufactured 640 PRO's not come wiht the internal lock?
Dagga Boy
02-20-2016, 11:31 AM
The PRO's do not have a lock.
orionz06
02-20-2016, 12:29 PM
I borrowed a DSG AIWB from Chuck to pressure test in the class.
Chuck told me you stole it...
It was not a favorite.....because I am fat. I know Chuck and many others love them. It was effective for what I was doing and stayed put.
Loosen the screws, the holes are oversized to allow for some wiggle room, perhaps a little cant might help. If ya got any other ideas that would make it work for you better there is wiggle room in how I make them, making them work for more people or more guns is always a priority.
Dagga Boy
02-20-2016, 12:56 PM
Chuck told me you stole it...
Loosen the screws, the holes are oversized to allow for some wiggle room, perhaps a little cant might help. If ya got any other ideas that would make it work for you better there is wiggle room in how I make them, making them work for more people or more guns is always a priority.
I stole the 3" K frame one. For normal stuff I like it. All contorted in class and shrimping in the corner....being fat sucks no matter how loose the screws are. I need to actually order a couple of holsters for both Wayne and I to really test them.
orionz06
02-20-2016, 01:04 PM
I got some stuff rolling already, had to get some guns though. Lemme know what else and I'll get a box of goodies out there.
Trajan
02-20-2016, 01:27 PM
I've been using one for a 2.5 K occasionally since October. I definitely don't carry this everyday over my G19L; it's main purpose to me is range and dry fire. I'd need to get different grips if I were to carry it without a jacket or hoodie. I had to switch spacers, but other than that it's been 100% for me. Wicked fast and it carries well.
http://i.imgur.com/Tx6bLuD.jpg
entropy
02-20-2016, 11:32 PM
I frequent one or two other boards. I must say that the limited amount of time I've spent here has cost me more cash than the others. I also disnt like the flat-sided revolvers....until this thread.
More outflow of cash it appears is in my future.
OldRunner/CSAT Neighbor
02-21-2016, 12:26 AM
I've been using one for a 2.5 K occasionally since October. I definitely don't carry this everyday over my G19L; it's main purpose to me is range and dry fire. I'd need to get different grips if I were to carry it without a jacket or hoodie. I had to switch spacers, but other than that it's been 100% for me. Wicked fast and it carries well.
http://i.imgur.com/Tx6bLuD.jpg
Well if nothing else Trajan I can say Retro & I like your choice of Jerry's stocks.
I have been close to pressing the trigger on a Pro, three or four different times, but I am just not sure I have a j frame lifestyle. I would love to have an alloy version with the same feature set.
[QUOTE=GJM;410223]I...but I am just not sure I have a j frame lifestyle."
Makes it sound like you're thinking of dumping Charlie for a Charles. Just not right.
11B10
02-21-2016, 09:08 PM
[QUOTE=GJM;410223]I...but I am just not sure I have a j frame lifestyle."
Makes it sound like you're thinking of dumping Charlie for a Charles. Just not right.
He is SO done!
[QUOTE=GJM;410223]I...but I am just not sure I have a j frame lifestyle."
Makes it sound like you're thinking of dumping Charlie for a Charles. Just not right.
No more likes for you tonight.
taadski
02-21-2016, 11:15 PM
[QUOTE=SLG;410262]
No more likes for you tonight.
I had an extra one for em for that! :D
Dagga Boy
02-22-2016, 09:24 AM
If I had Charlie and her Glock around, I would just carry a J frame to bat clean up with. :cool:
Chuck Haggard
02-22-2016, 09:55 AM
I have been close to pressing the trigger on a Pro, three or four different times, but I am just not sure I have a j frame lifestyle. I would love to have an alloy version with the same feature set.
Get the Pro, load it up with something like a 200gr hardcast, tell yourself it's your jiu jitsu bear grappling gun.
entropy
02-23-2016, 02:13 PM
A pox upon all of you in this thread...
After saving my pennies and lusting on the thought of acquiring a nice blued 19 or stainless 66 (to supplement/replace my DW 15-2 2.5") I now find myself searching for an excuse not to get a 640 Pro instead. I guess there is "snub life" and "classic snub life" and I am now torn between the two.
For those of you who have installed the APEX kits, I'd appreciate a good description of what exactly it has provided for you as well as the factor of difficulty in installation. I have yet to crack the side plate of my 28-2, and have opened the DW only to proclaim "eewww!", blast with scrubber lube and reseal. I've broken down about every auto I have owned, but wheeguns still intimidate me.
You all are such a poor influence....:cool:
Dagga Boy
02-23-2016, 02:31 PM
A pox upon all of you in this thread...
After saving my pennies and lusting on the thought of acquiring a nice blued 19 or stainless 66 (to supplement/replace my DW 15-2 2.5") I now find myself searching for an excuse not to get a 640 Pro instead. I guess there is "snub life" and "classic snub life" and I am now torn between the two.
For those of you who have installed the APEX kits, I'd appreciate a good description of what exactly it has provided for you as well as the factor of difficulty in installation. I have yet to crack the side plate of my 28-2, and have opened the DW only to proclaim "eewww!", blast with scrubber lube and reseal. I've broken down about every auto I have owned, but wheeguns still intimidate me.
You all are such a poor influence....:cool:
You could go with a compromise.....two guns that I absolutely love to carry are my 2" model 64 and my Colt Cobra. The 2" 64 is not much bigger than the Pro, and shoot great. The Cobra is wonderous to carry.
entropy
02-23-2016, 03:09 PM
Oh that's it...just toss me another bag of crack! :)
Poconnor
02-24-2016, 10:17 PM
Thank you Nyeti; you guys almost had me. I couldn't decide between the 640 or an sp101 WC. Then you post a pic of a 2" inch 64 and I remember why I like s&w 642s. For me j frames are for pocket carry. If I am sticking a snubby in a holster it's going to be a k frame. My wife thanks you. my next snubby will be a no lock m&p 340
If I had Charlie and her Glock around, I would just carry a J frame to bat clean up with. :cool:
First nice thing you have said about a Glock in a long time.
Get the Pro, load it up with something like a 200gr hardcast, tell yourself it's your jiu jitsu bear grappling gun.
Chuck, the crazy thing is it would probably recoil less than a Scandium .44.
Dagga Boy
02-24-2016, 10:52 PM
Thank you Nyeti; you guys almost had me. I couldn't decide between the 640 or an sp101 WC. Then you post a pic of a 2" inch 64 and I remember why I like s&w 642s. For me j frames are for pocket carry. If I am sticking a snubby in a holster it's going to be a k frame. My wife thanks you. my next snubby will be a no lock m&p 340
Carry an M&P 340 in my pocket as a BuG everyday. Great choice. I have a custom one on its way with a Ti cylinder. Debating on which will be the BUG, and which will be the "Rule 1" house gun.
First nice thing you have said about a Glock in a long time.
Chuck, the crazy thing is it would probably recoil less than a Scandium .44.
Only because I like Charlie in spite of her taste in guns.....;). In all seriousness, I have put a quarter million taxpayer rounds out of various Glocks and they saved my hands in my last years of cop work, and carried the crap out of them since. I just got pissed when I got a couple of lemons on a platform that should be well past lemons. Then when I was told it was because I was "limp wristing" by the nice lady on the phone.....I just went back to my old stand-by fan boy guns the HK's.
Truth on the Scandium .44....worst thing I ever had to do as a gun writer was test shoot Hamilton Bowens personal Scandium .44. A gun I could not wait to return.
1slow
02-25-2016, 12:02 AM
On worst guns to shoot.
.500 Linebaugh Maximum, .357 J frame Scandium, American Derringer model 10, 10 oz .45acp smallest grips, 329.
Early 1990s. I had Bowen build me: 2 of 4'' Redhawk .500 Linebaugh Stainless ( even got Sparks holsters custom done), a .475 Linebaugh 5.5'' Redhawk SS. I liked these very well and would shoot 50 rounds at a time. This was pre arthritis when closing a #2 CoC was easy with either hand and I was dreaming of closing the #3.
Then I asked Hamilton how far we could go. In his proposal letter he said " it will be about as much fun as a sharp stick up the nose but if you want it I can build it."
Ruger .500 Linebaugh Maximum 6.5''on a Ruger maximum .357 frame with a Bisley grip. 450gr ant 1500fps chronographed out of a 3 lb gun.
I should have listened. That was much worse than the .500 S&W, the 329 etc.. The maximum recoiled as abruptly as a 340/.357 and MUCH harder.
The Maximum was the only Bowen gun I ever traded off. Like all his work it was superb but too much for me. I did not harden to the work.
Dagga Boy
02-27-2016, 06:50 PM
Took my 640-1 out today. Shockingly for a steel 2.25 barrel Smith, it is dead on for 135gr +P Gold Dot short barrel HP. I have a lot of this stuff so I now have a 640 that will shoot it.
So, its 158's for the PRO's and GDHP 135 for the 640-1.
serialsolver
02-28-2016, 09:09 PM
Did someone say 340pd? My vote for the best pocket gun ever.
http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee179/serialsolver/A4E0AEFE-2F08-4004-91CC-CE72FEDB3FC3_zps4gz8z1kr.jpg (http://s233.photobucket.com/user/serialsolver/media/A4E0AEFE-2F08-4004-91CC-CE72FEDB3FC3_zps4gz8z1kr.jpg.html)
I recently replaced the rubber grips with some old stuff so my hands would slip across the grips easier. There with it is my homemade pocket holster.
http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee179/serialsolver/AD8B9D6E-991C-4F58-9C60-99C30ED58E4D_zpsvlhzv29j.jpg (http://s233.photobucket.com/user/serialsolver/media/AD8B9D6E-991C-4F58-9C60-99C30ED58E4D_zpsvlhzv29j.jpg.html)
It almost fits in my shirt pocket. With 357 mags it is the greatest flinch inducer. Yeah, I keep it loaded with wadcutters.
This thread has renewed my appreciation for j frames. Thanks.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
entropy
02-28-2016, 09:59 PM
Sounds like you got a pocket for everything!;)
Sometimes, autocorrect CAN be your friend!!
LSP972
02-29-2016, 06:54 AM
I'll see your 340PD, and raise you a 342… no communist lock that needs disabling, and one ounce less to boot.
Notice the good taste in gripping accoutrements…;)
LSP972
02-29-2016, 07:03 AM
But its truth time… THIS is what rides in my pocket every day.
The accursed lock is gone, replaced by The Plug. And the Ahrends stocks, as you can see in the second photo, are noticeably thinner at the bottom, which makes quite a difference in how she prints- or not- in a pocket. Those magnas and Tyler adapter sure do feel good- and indeed offer a bit more control- but you cannot get around the fact that the Ahrends conceal better… while still offering a sufficient degree of "shootability". I have another set of these, in cocobolo, for the 342.
That 342 is a pearl beyond price… they only made a couple of thousand of them without the lock, and prices for those have gone beyond stupid. Mine stays in the safe, except for the occasional photo op, and if End of Days slips up on us...:cool:
.
serialsolver
02-29-2016, 09:13 AM
But its truth time… THIS is what rides in my pocket every day.
The accursed lock is gone, replaced by The Plug. And the Ahrends stocks, as you can see in the second photo, are noticeably thinner at the bottom, which makes quite a difference in how she prints- or not- in a pocket. Those magnas and Tyler adapter sure do feel good- and indeed offer a bit more control- but you cannot get around the fact that the Ahrends conceal better… while still offering a sufficient degree of "shootability". I have another set of these, in cocobolo, for the 342.
That 342 is a pearl beyond price… they only made a couple of thousand of them without the lock, and prices for those have gone beyond stupid. Mine stays in the safe, except for the occasional photo op, and if End of Days slips up on us...:cool:
.
Those grips are quite thinner. As much as I like t-grips they sometimes move around when gripping hard. I may explore grip options. I had some Craig spegal grips on the 340pd but became allergic to the cocobolo wood. Twenty minutes with cocobolo touching my skin caused a rash that would take two weeks to get rid of. I'm pretty narrow minded about my grips now.
Thanks Chuck.
Stupid autocorrect.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Nephrology
02-29-2016, 09:31 AM
Those grips are quite thinner. As much as I like t-grips they sometimes move around when gripping hard. I may explore grip options. I had some Craig spegal grips on the 340pd but became allergic to the cocobolo wood. Twenty minutes with cocobolo touching my skin caused a rash that would take two weeks to get rid of. I'm pretty narrow minded about my grips now.
Thanks Chuck.
Stupid autocorrect.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Allergic contact dermatitis to cocobolo? interesting. Do you get the same rash with other woods? Part of me wonders if it is the wood or the varnish/finish on the grips.
1slow
02-29-2016, 10:04 AM
Reactions to cocobolo are well known in the knife making community. Grinding dust causing skin reactions etc...
Ed Thuesen, who in the 1990s ran Texas Knifemaker's Supply, told me he had irreversible lung damage from grinding tropical hardwoods without a respirator.
On that subject a respirator is necessary to avoid lung damage with many materials. I would suspect that grinding and inhaling G10 might contribute to silicosis.
LSP972
02-29-2016, 11:32 AM
Reactions to cocobolo are well known in the knife making community. Grinding dust causing skin reactions etc...
Ed Thuesen, who in the 1990s ran Texas Knifemaker's Supply, told me he had irreversible lung damage from grinding tropical hardwoods without a respirator.
On that subject a respirator is necessary to avoid lung damage with many materials. I would suspect that grinding and inhaling G10 might contribute to silicosis.
Damn. And here I thought all I had to worry about was airborne lead from so much indoor shooting.
.
Nephrology
02-29-2016, 11:40 AM
Reactions to cocobolo are well known in the knife making community. Grinding dust causing skin reactions etc...
Ed Thuesen, who in the 1990s ran Texas Knifemaker's Supply, told me he had irreversible lung damage from grinding tropical hardwoods without a respirator.
On that subject a respirator is necessary to avoid lung damage with many materials. I would suspect that grinding and inhaling G10 might contribute to silicosis.
The airborne particulate stuff I believe 100%. Was surprised (but not extremely) that cocobolo specifically caused ACD.
Matt O
02-29-2016, 03:54 PM
In general, as someone dipping a toe in the j-frame world, is the 640 pro worth it over the 640?
Dagga Boy
02-29-2016, 04:03 PM
In general, as someone dipping a toe in the j-frame world, is the 640 pro worth it over the 640?
Likely not......If you can find a pre lock, pre MIM 640. The key is really having some worthwhile sights once we get older. Guns like my 640-1 can get a tritium dot X/S, which mine may get (also have a 649-3 with this set up). The nice thing with the PRO's is that they are close to the older guns yet available. They tend to shoot good, and if they don't can go back to the mother ship. In my world, some availability of all black rear sights in different heights would make them for me. The sights are also why I have spent good money for the M&P340's as well. It is really a question of use. As I get older, the sights get more important. Also, when functioning in a primary role....I like to be able to hit at longer than CQB distances.
All of this is about use and what you are doing. If you plan to shoot them a lot, carry a lot and train, the 640 Pro is a worthwhile investment as a state of the art snub. To just add a snub that is good to the mix, the standard guns are viable, especially if you use the price difference on sights and ammo.
Matt O
02-29-2016, 04:29 PM
Likely not......If you can find a pre lock, pre MIM 640. The key is really having some worthwhile sights once we get older. Guns like my 640-1 can get a tritium dot X/S, which mine may get (also have a 649-3 with this set up). The nice thing with the PRO's is that they are close to the older guns yet available. They tend to shoot good, and if they don't can go back to the mother ship. In my world, some availability of all black rear sights in different heights would make them for me. The sights are also why I have spent good money for the M&P340's as well. It is really a question of use. As I get older, the sights get more important. Also, when functioning in a primary role....I like to be able to hit at longer than CQB distances.
All of this is about use and what you are doing. If you plan to shoot them a lot, carry a lot and train, the 640 Pro is a worthwhile investment as a state of the art snub. To just add a snub that is good to the mix, the standard guns are viable, especially if you use the price difference on sights and ammo.
Ahh, I didn't realize recent 640's came with the lock. That may sway me right there.
I'm envisioning this would serve as a bug/jacket pocket gun, particularly in the colder months, or a primary while at home in more leisurely clothing.
LSP972
02-29-2016, 05:45 PM
I'm envisioning this would serve as a bug/jacket pocket gun, particularly in the colder months, or a primary while at home in more leisurely clothing.
Well, for that specific use, you might want to consider an AirWeight (642, 442, or the "new" 340) or an AirLite (342- if you can find one-, 360PD or 340PD, all with the titanium cylinder). The all-steel Js weigh a good 6+ ounces more than the alloy-framed guns; and that makes a difference in non-belt-supported carry.
Many of us (me included) have an all-steel J for serious shooting/practice, and a light one - AirWeight or AirLite- for occasional shooting/carry.
.
LSP972
02-29-2016, 05:59 PM
BTW, in case there appears to be some contradiction in what a few of us are saying, let me try to clear that up.
DB is putting down solid information regarding a J frame used for a primary carry piece. Distance accuracy and "shootability" matters for that; hence, the extra weight and much better sights of the Pro models fill the need.
Personally, if I have to carry that weight, I'll stick with a polymer-framed bottom feeder Euro pellet launcher. I use my J's as secondary iron; IOW, things are about as bad as they can get, usually at bad breath range, so the term "belly gun" is more appropriate for that. Not as in you carry it next to your belly; more as you stick it in the other guy's belly (or ear, or nasal cavity, whatever's convenient), or he's close enough to point-shoot with a reasonable expectation of hitting him. I'm not concerned with what sights the thing has, or how tight a group I can print with it at 25 yards. I spent many, many qual cycles shooting the old skinny front blade/shallow rear notch J's at 25 yards, and keeping them in center mass well enough to clean the point spread, to worry about sights. I know that is not the accepted dogma here, but what can I say?:)
Anyway, hope that 'splains the difference in thoughts/comments.
.
serialsolver
02-29-2016, 06:09 PM
Allergic contact dermatitis to cocobolo? interesting. Do you get the same rash with other woods? Part of me wonders if it is the wood or the varnish/finish on the grips.
I don't have a problem with the wood on my colts or s&w' and I'm reluctant to try any other wood. I have reworked some micarta grips a couple of times and got sick at my stomach every time. I don't know about g10. My days of reworking grips are over cause of asthma.
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Matt O
02-29-2016, 06:34 PM
Well, for that specific use, you might want to consider an AirWeight (642, 442, or the "new" 340) or an AirLite (342- if you can find one-, 360PD or 340PD, all with the titanium cylinder). The all-steel Js weigh a good 6+ ounces more than the alloy-framed guns; and that makes a difference in non-belt-supported carry.
Many of us (me included) have an all-steel J for serious shooting/practice, and a light one - AirWeight or AirLite- for occasional shooting/carry.
.
Yeah I definitely get that. I would probably get the all steel version first to get practice and manipulation in first before getting a lighter carry option. I'm definitely not digging the idea of shooting the alloy frame versions very much given what I've heard from everyone here.
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Dagga Boy
02-29-2016, 06:58 PM
LSP972 is right on the money. Lightweights for back ups. Wayne and I are very happy with our M&P340's. They are no lock guns and work well to back up our primary carry 9 mm service guns.
The steel J's are good guns for many folks as sort of small grab and go guns. I usually walk with one in a small fanny pack, drive with them under my leg or in my lap, especially in particularly bad areas or road trips. I am finding them good for travel to easily airport bathroom load and they make great guns if you are entangled. For pocket carry.....either one, but I will not carry a semi auto other than a p7 in a pocket....period.
Another benefit to these are home guns. The 2.25" barrel 640's and similar also have potential for house stash guns that may make good guns to teach everyone in the house how to use. Small enough to be run by folks with smaller hands, easy admin handling, and easy to use, and recoil is manageable with .38's. Also, easy to slide in a back pocket answering the door or taking out the trash.
Wondering Beard
02-29-2016, 07:08 PM
Personally, if I have to carry that weight, I'll stick with a polymer-framed bottom feeder Euro pellet launcher. I use my J's as secondary iron; IOW, things are about as bad as they can get, usually at bad breath range, so the term "belly gun" is more appropriate for that. Not as in you carry it next to your belly; more as you stick it in the other guy's belly (or ear, or nasal cavity, whatever's convenient), or he's close enough to point-shoot with a reasonable expectation of hitting him. I'm not concerned with what sights the thing has, or how tight a group I can print with it at 25 yards.
That's pretty much where I am when it comes to J frames.
Dagga Boy
03-01-2016, 02:27 PM
If anyone is looking....Jackson Armory has a used 340PD in the revolver case. $625
I ll post my pick up and impulse buy when I get them home.....:cool:
Wayne Dobbs
03-01-2016, 04:04 PM
If anyone is looking....Jackson Armory has a used 340PD in the revolver case. $625
I ll post my pick up and impulse buy when I get them home.....:cool:
What have you done now Darryl?
Dagga Boy
03-01-2016, 04:40 PM
What have you done now Darryl?
M&P 340 customized by JOJO's and fitted with a Ti cylinder....sickly light.
Then I spied a P30SK V1 LEM. Have never seen a LEM one in the wild, got a good deal on an LE gun, and so far should make a neat back up to one of my P30L's. My primary P2000Sk will stay as a dedicated deep concealment pistol, but the SK does make a nice back up for the P30L where they feel the same and share some parts plus I will set them up with identical sights, trigger, etc.
SeriousStudent
03-01-2016, 07:53 PM
Dammit. So many guns, so little time. :(
Poconnor
03-02-2016, 04:20 PM
My next planned purchase is a S&W m&p 340 to replace the 642 I have been pocket carrying for the last 15 years. I just picked up a used P2000sk Lem that was traded in for a new p30sk. What holster do you recommend DB? Anyone know if a safariland model 27 for a P30 will work for the P2000sk?
Can I play, too:
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg251/GJMandes/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpsahuo2s3f.jpeg (http://s250.photobucket.com/user/GJMandes/media/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpsahuo2s3f.jpeg.html)
Wayne Dobbs
03-03-2016, 09:42 AM
[QUOTE Anyone know if a safariland model 27 for a P30 will work for the P2000sk?[/QUOTE]
P30 holsters will work for a P2000 or 2000SK. You'll have empty space in the bottom of the holster but it will fit the slide and trigger guard.
Beat Trash
03-03-2016, 11:00 AM
M&P 340 customized by JOJO's and fitted with a Ti cylinder....sickly light.
Then I spied a P30SK V1 LEM. Have never seen a LEM one in the wild, got a good deal on an LE gun, and so far should make a neat back up to one of my P30L's. My primary P2000Sk will stay as a dedicated deep concealment pistol, but the SK does make a nice back up for the P30L where they feel the same and share some parts plus I will set them up with identical sights, trigger, etc.
So I have to ask, do you have a VIP parking spot in front of these gun stores? There are times when the main reason I log onto this forum is to see what Nyeti bought this week....
Dagga Boy
03-03-2016, 12:03 PM
So I have to ask, do you have a VIP parking spot in front of these gun stores? There are times when the main reason I log onto this forum is to see what Nyeti bought this week....
As Wayne says to me: "you're like a dog killin chickens". The simple fact is I found a way to enjoy guns again...which is the collectable revolvers. This reinvigoration has led to taking a hard look at the snubs and their role in a solid self-defense program. The P30SK and Ti cylinder M&P340 were actually a bit out of line with what I have been turning dollars into. In truth, I traded into both which is simply a change in priorities on working guns. Now, the things like in the box unfired Colt's, and very rare prewar Smith's.....401K that I like.
Beat Trash
03-03-2016, 12:35 PM
Trust me, I am only jealous...
Cecil Burch
03-03-2016, 12:47 PM
A The simple fact is I found a way to enjoy guns again...which is the collectable revolvers. This reinvigoration has led to taking a hard look at the snubs and their role in a solid self-defense program.
I had a really good conversation with Chuck Haggard last week and we were discussing snubs and their role. He had some good thoughts on the differences between a 642 (that I already have) and a 640pro.
Darryl, with your recent focus on the snubs, what do you think about doing the work training wise with a 640pro, but carrying a 642? Do you think it makes enough of a difference in practical use? Will I get too locked into the easier shooting of the heavier gun vs the 642? Or am I overthinking this?
Cecil Burch
03-03-2016, 01:19 PM
Any chance I could talk you (or Chuck) into sharing those thoughts? :)
A lot of it was my whining about maybe selling my 642 to fund my purchase of a pro as a replacement. Chuck's point was that the 642 was not fun to shoot for extended periods. Which I totally concurred with, as after running one through an entire ECQC course, my hands were not in good shape. Chuck said the pro was perfect to shoot, but being heavier was less useful as a pocket carry, and better suited to something like Dark Star Gear's clip on AIWB. The 642 was a bitch to shoot much with, but was so easy to pocket carry, even in my weekday attire of dress slacks. We both agreed that the snub was awfully nice in the entangled fight role, so there is good place for them, but not all of them are exactly interchangeable. Which I had not put as much thought in as guys like Chuck has.
And hence my question to nyeti about shooting one a lot, but relying on the carry of the other.
Dagga Boy
03-03-2016, 01:24 PM
I had a really good conversation with Chuck Haggard last week and we were discussing snubs and their role. He had some good thoughts on the differences between a 642 (that I already have) and a 640pro.
Darryl, with your recent focus on the snubs, what do you think about doing the work training wise with a 640pro, but carrying a 642? Do you think it makes enough of a difference in practical use? Will I get too locked into the easier shooting of the heavier gun vs the 642? Or am I overthinking this?
Truthfully, I think the biggest benefit of the 640 PRO is to have an airweight trainer. A gun you can shoot, and shoot a lot. A gun you can run drills with that allow for good performance, and to be able to work at greater distance. Airweights are carry a lot , shoot a little guns.....no matter what anyone else says. It also keeps them far more reliable to not shoot them much. Unfortunately, this has translated to "just not shoot much". The steel frame snubs let you train and get good shooting snubs, which is a HUGE dividend payer with your actual carry guns and BUGS. Honestly, with my arthritis, I am not going to go shoot my daily carried 340's much. I actually enjoy running the 640's (training with a standard 640 and it's more normal sights is not that much of an issue) and shooting them.....which translates to live trigger presses.
In my experience...in an actual shooting, recoil, muzzle blast, and trigger pull itself will all be audible and tactile muted. What I remember is trigger movement and not weight, and hugely increased visual acuity....all of which are compatible with training with a steel snub and carrying an airweight.
Hope this helps.
Cecil Burch
03-03-2016, 01:31 PM
Truthfully, I think the biggest benefit of the 640 PRO is to have an airweight trainer. A gun you can shoot, and shoot a lot. A gun you can run drills with that allow for good performance, and to be able to work at greater distance. Airweights are carry a lot , shoot a little guns.....no matter what anyone else says. It also keeps them far more reliable to not shoot them much. Unfortunately, this has translated to "just not shoot much". The steel frame snubs let you train and get good shooting snubs, which is a HUGE dividend payer with your actual carry guns and BUGS. Honestly, with my arthritis, I am not going to go shoot my daily carried 340's much. I actually enjoy running the 640's (training with a standard 640 and it's more normal sights is not that much of an issue) and shooting them.....which translates to live trigger presses.
In my experience...in an actual shooting, recoil, muzzle blast, and trigger pull itself will all be audible and tactile muted. What I remember is trigger movement and not weight, and hugely increased visual acuity....all of which are compatible with training with a steel snub and carrying an airweight.
Hope this helps.
Perfect! Exactly what I was hoping for. Thanks much. Chuck was on the same page as well.
The only problem is that it was going to be a bit easier getting it past the wife if I could tell her I am selling one gun to buy another. Now, I will have to figure a way to sell "No, honey, this gun will be in addition to everything else, and I really, really need this one".................
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