S&W 640 Pro Series

[LSP972]

Truthfully, I think the biggest benefit of the 640 PRO is to have an airweight trainer. .

Bingo. I've been doing this for almost 30 years, albeit with a bit less panache- my "trainer" is a beat-up old plain vanilla M-640.

Once you go AirWeight (or AirLite), you'll never willingly go back to all-steel... for pocket carry, anyway.

.

[SeriousStudent]

I was able to score another steel trainer today. On the way home from work, I wandered through Cabela's. They had a used 640 no-dash, and 15 minutes later I had another J-frame.

It looks like it was pocket carried a lot, but rarely cleaned. The exterior is pretty scratched, but the screws are perfect. I'll add a T-grip to it, and clean and lube it.

And I got the stamp back today on a Form 1 that I e-filed. I should go buy a Lotto ticket as well. :D

[GJM]

I will give you $250 for it. Now that I have signed on to Darryl's three shot failure drill, the new minimum is six shots for two Givens bad guys. That thing could get you hurt, and I am doing you a favor buying it.

[SeriousStudent]

George, I am honored that you would even think a chipmunk-shooter like this would be of use to you.

Truly, it's an itty-bitty little gun, and would not even annoy anything you would likely point it at. Astro probably chases off bigger critters than this thing is capable of taking.

6432

[GJM]

George, I am honored that you would even think a chipmunk-shooter like this would be of use to you.

Truly, it's an itty-bitty little gun, and would not even annoy anything you would likely point it at. Astro probably chases off bigger critters than this thing is capable of taking.

6432

I think this would be described as honest wear.

I am waiting for Darryl to do a buddy run of alloy J frames set up exactly like the Pro.

[SeriousStudent]

I think this would be described as honest wear.

I am waiting for Darryl to do a buddy run of alloy J frames set up exactly like the Pro.

You would be seriously pissed if you knew what I paid for it. I think it's a "widow's gun", and the innards look very solid. The wear is all cosmetic, as you noticed.

I'm doing the front sight with Claude Werner's orange nail polish technique right now, and going to shoot the snot out of it next month in a class.

Let me know when those alloy 640 Pro's come out.

[Dagga Boy]

You would be seriously pissed if you knew what I paid for it. I think it's a "widow's gun", and the innards look very solid. The wear is all cosmetic, as you noticed.

I'm doing the front sight with Claude Werner's orange nail polish technique right now, and going to shoot the snot out of it next month in a class.

Let me know when those alloy 640 Pro's come out.

If you guys only knew on the alloy 640 PRO's.....:mad:

Orange Nail Polish....????? Is that what that stuff is? Here I thought my girlfriend was being nice by keeping a drawer in the bathroom filled with front sight paint in lots of colors:p.

[SeriousStudent]

Yes, orange nail polish. The really funny part is three heavily-armed guys standing in an aisle at Wally World on a Saturday night during the Revolver Roundup, debating which shade of orange "really popped."

The discussion was concluded amicably at Babe's over chicken-fried steak.

[GJM]

Yes, orange nail polish. The really funny part is three heavily-armed guys standing in an aisle at Wally World on a Saturday night during the Revolver Roundup, debating which shade of orange "really popped."

The discussion was concluded amicably at Babe's over chicken-fried steak.

Why didn't you ask -- I have done this drill at Walmart and settled on traffic cone orange.

[Chuck Haggard]

Cecil, you'll be even more disappointed to know that I think a serious snubby guy needs the 642 or other lightweight gun for carry, and a 640, and something like the 43c or 317 as a .22 trainer........

The biggest hurdle to shooting snubs well is the sights, grip, and trigger pull. Dry fire is very important IMHO, but so is live fire, and doing so with less recoil and not building up a flinch is important.

I'd carry a Pro, or a standard 64, as a belt gun (and I have with my older 640 no dash that I wish I still owned...), but they are just too chunky for a pocket gun IMHO, and too heavy for me now to use as an ankle gun. They are really nice to train with though.

On this same theme, I'm looking at a .357 LCR to go with my .38 and .22lr LCRs using the same theory noted above, because the .357 is noticeably heavier than the .38

[LSP972]

6432



Great score. Such treasures are out there, but we're seeing fewer and fewer of them as time passes.

Interesting texture on the stocks. What do you make of it?

.

[serialsolver]

Yes, orange nail polish. The really funny part is three heavily-armed guys standing in an aisle at Wally World on a Saturday night during the Revolver Roundup, debating which shade of orange "really popped."

The discussion was concluded amicably at Babe's over chicken-fried steak.

Are yous guy using the glossy finish or matt finish? really I'm serious. I use a matt finish cause I don't like the glare.


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[Beat Trash]

Matt...

I can state with the upmost seriousness that I never thought I would see the day that grown men on this forum started a serious discussion about fingernail polish...

[Irelander]

I use one of these:
http://www.staples-3p.com/s7/is/image/Staples/m002303834_sc7?$splssku$ (http://www.staples.com/uni-Paint-Markers-Orange/product_500983)

[entropy]

Matt...

I can state with the upmost seriousness that I never thought I would see the day that grown men on this forum started a serious discussion about fingernail polish...

Well...I can roll with that. However, if the subject changes to "how does this color go with my holster color" I'm outta here.

[Drang]

Well...I can roll with that. However, if the subject changes to "how does this color go with my holster color" I'm outta here.

Does this color make my butt(stock) look fat?

[orionz06]

Well...I can roll with that. However, if the subject changes to "how does this color go with my holster color" I'm outta here.

What if they match?


Sent from my Nokia 3310 using an owl

[Chuck Whitlock]

Cecil, you'll be even more disappointed to know that I think a serious snubby guy needs the 642 or other lightweight gun for carry, and a 640, and something like the 43c or 317 as a .22 trainer........

On this same theme, I'm looking at a .357 LCR to go with my .38 and .22lr LCRs using the same theory noted above, because the .357 is noticeably heavier than the .38

DB,

If it's not too much of a derail, could you do a rundown of the pros/cons of this concept with the J-frame v. Ruger?

I already have an SP101, and am contemplating the LCR in .38/.357 and .22. As a data point, the trigger reach on a K-frame is a tad long for me, but I cut my teeth on Security-Sixes. I would appreciate your thoughts.

[LSP972]

Not Chuck, but I have an LCR and compared it closely to my J frames.

No contest. The LCR is larger in every respect, has a huge rubber one-piece stock that is nice to hold and sucks to hide in a pocket.

All the accolades regarding the LCR's trigger left me scratching my head; I was, and remain, severely underwhelmed. Granted, it is lighter and smoother than your average J frame DA pull, but it is also easy to induce throw-by. By that, I mean if you don't let it out to full reset before pulling it again, it will "double-clutch" and spin the cylinder PAST the next round up. You can do this with the S&W too, but not nearly as easily.

All that said, IIRC Chuck likes his and will no doubt disagree with me. Flip a coin...;)

.

[LockedBreech]

Owned a 642 and borrowed an LCR for a few months. Don't own either anymore but my general impression was that the LCR was much nicer to shoot and the 642 was much nicer to conceal. Nary a bobble with either.


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[Dagga Boy]

I would agree with most of the above. I gave my .38 to my girlfriend, but she is horribly recoil sensitive so I also got her a .22 Win Mag one. She will be starting from scratch, so she isn't as sensitive to a comparison. For me, I carried the LCR for awhile and like LSP972 was sort of meh. I love the regular Ruger revolvers. I think the action of the LCR is good for folks without time on anything else and as a dedicated single platform. For those of us using both semi's and revolvers, it is easy to short stroke. I have bought used Smiths with cut or reduced power rebound springs. They get replaced immediately with stock ones. I need that trigger kicking hard back to remind me to go all the way forward.

[GJM]

.22 mag S&W trigger pull is WAY heavy -- can she pull it DA?

[Dagga Boy]

.22 mag S&W trigger pull is WAY heavy -- can she pull it DA?

We don't know yet. She is going to take our basic class and assigned to Wayne in June. Unlike your house, the only think that happens in my closet at night is her moving my stuff to make room for more shoes and purses.:p

[BehindBlueI's]

Not Chuck, but I have an LCR and compared it closely to my J frames.

No contest. The LCR is larger in every respect, has a huge rubber one-piece stock that is nice to hold and sucks to hide in a pocket.

All the accolades regarding the LCR's trigger left me scratching my head; I was, and remain, severely underwhelmed. Granted, it is lighter and smoother than your average J frame DA pull, but it is also easy to induce throw-by. By that, I mean if you don't let it out to full reset before pulling it again, it will "double-clutch" and spin the cylinder PAST the next round up. You can do this with the S&W too, but not nearly as easily.

All that said, IIRC Chuck likes his and will no doubt disagree with me. Flip a coin...;)

.

While not disagreeing with any of that, I like my LCR. I will also concur with it's a bit big for pocket carry, at least with the factory grip.

[SeriousStudent]

Cecil, you'll be even more disappointed to know that I think a serious snubby guy needs the 642 or other lightweight gun for carry, and a 640, and something like the 43c or 317 as a .22 trainer........

The biggest hurdle to shooting snubs well is the sights, grip, and trigger pull. Dry fire is very important IMHO, but so is live fire, and doing so with less recoil and not building up a flinch is important.

I'd carry a Pro, or a standard 64, as a belt gun (and I have with my older 640 no dash that I wish I still owned...), but they are just too chunky for a pocket gun IMHO, and too heavy for me now to use as an ankle gun. They are really nice to train with though.

On this same theme, I'm looking at a .357 LCR to go with my .38 and .22lr LCRs using the same theory noted above, because the .357 is noticeably heavier than the .38

Hmmm - snubbies.

Model 43c 22 LR - check.
Model 60-9 .357 Magnum - check.
Model 64-2 .38 Special - check.
Model 640 .38 Special - check.
Model 642-2 .38 Special - check.
Model 642 no lock .38 Special - check.

The 342 should be here next week.

Cecil - if you wander eastward for the Revolver Roundup, you are absolutely welcome to borrow anything you need. Guns, holsters, speedloaders, whatever.

I went back to Cabela's tonight for the 2" 64-2 that I saw yesterday. It haunted my thoughts at work all day, the minions thought I was sick or something.

And I'm no where near Darryl's class. He needs a pickup to haul his snubbies to the range, I just need a shoebox.

[SeriousStudent]

Great score. Such treasures are out there, but we're seeing fewer and fewer of them as time passes.

Interesting texture on the stocks. What do you make of it?

.

I am honestly not sure. I don't think they are original to the gun, but I would absolutely defer to your judgement on anything S&W.

I do like how they feel with the T-grip. I've got a set of Ahrends that I have been debating put on the pistol, but I might just save them for a nicer piece.

This pistol is going to get used a LOT, so I may just grab some VCD grips, since it's going to be a very high round count gun. Or high round count for a J frame, anyway.

[SeriousStudent]

Are yous guy using the glossy finish or matt finish? really I'm serious. I use a matt finish cause I don't like the glare.


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This is what I used. I went to Walmart and got these:

Sally Hansen Miracle Gel white nail polish, the color number is 450, and the color name is "Get Mod". Applied two base coats per Claude. That gives you a nice base coat for the orange to adhere to.

Topped that with Salon Perfect brand nail polish, the color code number is 506, and the color name is "Traffic Cone", like George recommended. Applied three coats. It is a nice dull matte color.

I'll see if I can get some pictures up. I don't have a camera, so it's going to be more crappy cell phone pics.

[Dagga Boy]

I am honestly not sure. I don't think they are original to the gun, but I would absolutely defer to your judgement on anything S&W.

I do like how they feel with the T-grip. I've got a set of Ahrends that I have been debating put on the pistol, but I might just save them for a nicer piece.

This pistol is going to get used a LOT, so I may just grab some VCD grips, since it's going to be a very high round count gun. Or high round count for a J frame, anyway.

Before you do anything...I have an extra set of J frame laminated Nills you need to try. I love let you try them next time we hook up. For shooting, they are stellar.

[serialsolver]

I found these at Walmart in crafts.
http://elmers.com/images/default-source/product-catalog-images/7327_1-jpg.jpg?Status=Master&sfvrsn=0

So far I like them better than the glossy model paint I was using.


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[SeriousStudent]

Before you do anything...I have an extra set of J frame laminated Nills you need to try. I love let you try them next time we hook up. For shooting, they are stellar.

It would be my great pleasure!

I dug up an old pair of Bianchi Lightning K-frame grips for that 2" 64-2 you recommended. I went back tonight and snagged the pistol, it looks like it has only 100 or so rounds through it. I'll run it in October as the backup to the 686.

[LSP972]

It would be my great pleasure!



Yeah, you need to jump on that with both feet. There are a lot of comments made here about serious carry guys who have a "box of old/reject holsters"… well, the same applies to revolver guys and stocks. Like holsters, revolver stocks are highly individualized. I have found that the basic issue Magna S&W stocks, in conjunction with a Tyler T-Grip, are pretty much unbeatable in terms of a solid, usable revolver grip set-up that isn't horribly expensive. Nills, while indeed the Bentley of revolver stocks, ARE horribly expensive. But for shooters, you get what you pay for with them.

Concealability, OTOH, is another kettle of fish. I have settled on Ahrends Boots as my carry J frame stocks, because they are thinner at the bottom and make for superlative carry while still being "shootable". But my practice 640 has the same set-up your new acquisition does, and I find that more comfortable and controllable. My 2" M-12 and 3" M-64 are the revolvers I would carry if I was going to tote a wheel gun for a primary; both have the same set-up of issue Magna stocks and Tyler T-grip.

Moral of the story… try as many different set-ups as you can. and don't let those Magna stocks and T-grip get away from you; it just might be YOUR ideal combo. I carried a 642 with that arrangement for MANY years; and would again in a heartbeat. The Ahrends are just a bit more convenient… but not as controllable when shooting. IOW, one cannot have his cake and eat it too.

Here's my M-12 K frame…

[Chuck Whitlock]

Not Chuck, but I have an LCR and compared it closely to my J frames.

No contest. The LCR is larger in every respect, has a huge rubber one-piece stock that is nice to hold and sucks to hide in a pocket.

All the accolades regarding the LCR's trigger left me scratching my head; I was, and remain, severely underwhelmed. Granted, it is lighter and smoother than your average J frame DA pull, but it is also easy to induce throw-by. By that, I mean if you don't let it out to full reset before pulling it again, it will "double-clutch" and spin the cylinder PAST the next round up. You can do this with the S&W too, but not nearly as easily.

All that said, IIRC Chuck likes his and will no doubt disagree with me. Flip a coin...;)

.


While not disagreeing with any of that, I like my LCR. I will also concur with it's a bit big for pocket carry, at least with the factory grip.

I appreciate the feedback. LSP972, I recall that you seemed to have gotten a lemon in the LCR. I would absolutely use the Hogue Bantam boot grips if I went that route.



I would agree with most of the above. I gave my .38 to my girlfriend, but she is horribly recoil sensitive so I also got her a .22 Win Mag one. She will be starting from scratch, so she isn't as sensitive to a comparison. For me, I carried the LCR for awhile and like LSP972 was sort of meh. I love the regular Ruger revolvers. I think the action of the LCR is good for folks without time on anything else and as a dedicated single platform. For those of us using both semi's and revolvers, it is easy to short stroke. I have bought used Smiths with cut or reduced power rebound springs. They get replaced immediately with stock ones. I need that trigger kicking hard back to remind me to go all the way forward.

Thanks. Good data points. I doubt either will work for pocket carry for me. I'm more going for lightweight vest BUG, with the SP101 as the trainer. Going to have to do some more coonfingering of each.

[LSP972]

I appreciate the feedback. LSP972, I recall that you seemed to have gotten a lemon in the LCR.


No idea; I just have experience with this "sample of one". However, excepting the extreme "looseness" of this one, after less than 200 rounds of wadcutters through it, every "complaint" I've had about it has been echoed by others.

IOW, it is a dependable revolver, but comparing it to my lightweight J's is like comparing RoseAnne to Snookie; both can be relied upon to talk shit, but which one would you rather get into the rack with???:cool:

.

[LockedBreech]

No idea; I just have experience with this "sample of one". However, excepting the extreme "looseness" of this one, after less than 200 rounds of wadcutters through it, every "complaint" I've had about it has been echoed by others.

IOW, it is a dependable revolver, but comparing it to my lightweight J's is like comparing RoseAnne to Snookie; both can be relied upon to talk shit, but which one would you rather get into the rack with???:cool:

.

I respectfully invoke my Fifth Amendment privilege against self-incrimination.


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[Chuck Whitlock]

No idea; I just have experience with this "sample of one". However, excepting the extreme "looseness" of this one, after less than 200 rounds of wadcutters through it, every "complaint" I've had about it has been echoed by others.

Thanks for that observation.


IOW, it is a dependable revolver, but comparing it to my lightweight J's is like comparing RoseAnne to Snookie; both can be relied upon to talk shit, but which one would you rather get into the rack with???:cool:

I can't quite bring myself to thank you for that mental image.:p

[Mitch]

How much does the internal lock in the regular 640 bother everyone? There's one at my local gun shop, but it has the lock on it. I can live with the ugliness, but the thought of it locking up when I don't want it to doesn't give me warm fuzzy feelings.


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[Willard]

...the thought of it locking up when I don't want it to doesn't give me warm fuzzy feelings.


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For me, that is your answer...I liken the thinking to Gordon Graham's perspective on low frequency / high risk tasks. Perhaps low frequency/likelihood of the little guys locking up, but when they do, the end result can be catastrophic. I'd mitigate by avoiding entirely, since you can get no-locks. Maybe S&W will eventually catch a clue.

[LSP972]

How much does the internal lock in the regular 640 bother everyone? There's one at my local gun shop, but it has the lock on it. I can live with the ugliness, but the thought of it locking up when I don't want it to doesn't give me warm fuzzy feelings.


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Having seen two examples of lock-equipped S&W revolvers be rendered TOTALLY inoperative when the lock self-initiated, it bothers me enough that I simply will have no part of it. I have ONE such revolver, a M-360PD, that I bought sight unseen in 2002 before I even knew the blasted lock existed (I had been out of the loop for several years). The first thing I did was deactivate the lock. I have passed on buying a couple of recent-production revolvers I was interested in, strictly because of the lock. A whole bunch of clueless people have taken a head-in-the-sand approach to this issue, dismissing some of us as Chicken Little nay-sayers.

If you intend to carry the piece or use it as a ready home defense/car defense/whatever gun, then either disable the lock, have it disabled, or pass on the purchase. If you just want a shooter, for practice/recreational use, then don't worry about it.

Be advised there are only a couple of ways to PROPERLY disable the lock without setting the gun up for failure down the road. Most of the You-Boob DIY videos I have seen on this topic do just that; tell you the wrong way. I have mentioned this several times over the past couple of years, and I don't have the time to write it all out now anyway. Perhaps somebody with more computer skills can find those words and post a link; they're around here somewhere.

.

[L-2]

Here's one Youtube video of the lock's main part removal: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RVPYgohVCNM

[LSP972]

Here's one Youtube video of the lock's main part removal: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RVPYgohVCNM

That is EXACTLY what I was talking about. This moron apparently doesn't know (probably because he and his pals don't shoot much) that removing the flag leaves 2mm of "dead space" between the remaining mechanism and the hammer. And enough shooting will dislodge the remaining mechanism and allow it to fall against the hammer… locking up the gun just as effectively as if the lock was intact and self-initiated.

.

[jh9]

Having seen two examples of lock-equipped S&W revolvers be rendered TOTALLY inoperative when the lock self-initiated, it bothers me enough that I simply will have no part of it. I have ONE such revolver, a M-360PD, that I bought sight unseen in 2002 before I even knew the blasted lock existed (I had been out of the loop for several years). The first thing I did was deactivate the lock. I have passed on buying a couple of recent-production revolvers I was interested in, strictly because of the lock. A whole bunch of clueless people have taken a head-in-the-sand approach to this issue, dismissing some of us as Chicken Little nay-sayers.

If you intend to carry the piece or use it as a ready home defense/car defense/whatever gun, then either disable the lock, have it disabled, or pass on the purchase. If you just want a shooter, for practice/recreational use, then don't worry about it.

Were both failures with scandium / ultralights? I don't think I've heard a firsthand account of a lock failure in a steel frame gun. But I've only two with the lock and one is a game gun so I haven't paid much attention.


Be advised there are only a couple of ways to PROPERLY disable the lock without setting the gun up for failure down the road. Most of the You-Boob DIY videos I have seen on this topic do just that; tell you the wrong way. I have mentioned this several times over the past couple of years, and I don't have the time to write it all out now anyway. Perhaps somebody with more computer skills can find those words and post a link; they're around here somewhere.
.

Was it this thread?

https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?12282-340-PD&highlight=lsp972+lock

[LSP972]

Were both failures with scandium / ultralights?



Was it this thread?

https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?12282-340-PD&highlight=lsp972+lock

Nope, one was an M-64 4". The other was an M-340PD, shooting +P .38s IIRC.

Yes, post #20 in that thread should cover it. Many thanks.

.

[GJM]

I had a lock failure with a Scandium Smith revolver. I am pretty sure it was a 329, but it has been long enough ago, I can't recall, and in any event, I have pulled all those locks. I won't swear to it but vaguely recall the lock would activate pulling the trigger DA while dry firing. Every lock failure should make a Liberal smile.

[Chef]

Anyone bought one of the 640 police trade ins on the market right now? Hard to tell if there is a lock

SMITH & WESSON 640 .357 MAG SS SNUB NOSE - VERY GOOD CONDITION
AVAILABILITY: IN STOCK YOUR PRICE:$499.95


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http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160312/15e579eae90520f1ca0ffde4c6355f77.jpg

[MGW]

Anyone bought one of the 640 police trade ins on the market right now? Hard to tell if there is a lock

SMITH & WESSON 640 .357 MAG SS SNUB NOSE - VERY GOOD CONDITION
AVAILABILITY: IN STOCK YOUR PRICE:$499.95


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http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160312/15e579eae90520f1ca0ffde4c6355f77.jpg

Link?

[GJM]

Look slike here:

https://www.recoilgunworks.com/smith-wesson-snub-nose-very-good-condition-p-29673.html

Assuming these are pre mim and likely to have better triggers than a current gen Pro?

[GJM]

Serious question -- who is covering revolver questions this weekend with Darryl at the Rangemaster rain fest this weekend?

[HCM]

Looks like here:

https://www.recoilgunworks.com/smith-wesson-snub-nose-very-good-condition-p-29673.html

Tom,

You are a VERY VERY BAD MAN - https://www.recoilgunworks.com/trade-aimpoint-compm4-sight-p-29621.html

[Chef]

Looks like here:

https://www.recoilgunworks.com/smith-wesson-snub-nose-very-good-condition-p-29673.html

Correct. I thought I posted a link. Thanks


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[LSP972]

Serious question -- who is covering revolver questions this weekend with Darryl at the Rangemaster rain fest this weekend?

Probably the rest of us here who try to impart a bit of revolver knowledge.

.

[LSP972]

Assuming these are pre mim and likely to have better triggers than a current gen Pro?

That one in the photo is lock-free, but that doesn't mean all of them are. And that's likely an MIM trigger… which means hammer, hand, cylinder stop, rebound slide are all probably MIM as well. S&W began using MIM parts long before the lock appeared. The "magnum" J frame- which that gun is built on- showed up in 1996… along with MIM parts. The lock didn't appear until late 1999.

Something else to consider is that S&W batch-produces these guns, and can (and definitely has) used older, slightly different parts AFTER a stated design change, if those older parts happen to be lying around in sufficient quantity.

For instance; the run of M-36 revolvers made for the Japanese cops a while back were all supposed to be on the post-95 frame; but half of the multi-thousand gun contract was made using the pre-95 frame and barrel, since there were still a bunch of those "in stock".

When the barrel pin fell victim to manufacturing shortcuts, and the "crush fit" barrel became the norm, it was around the same time that the recessed charge holes in the "magnum" cylinders was also discarded. The result was, for a few years you saw all sorts of odd-ball K frames coming out of Springfield; the so-called "transitional models". Some with recessed cylinders/ no pinned barrel, some with pinned barrel/no recessed cylinder, and all sorts of variations in between. This kind of inconsistency is why serious S&W collectors have gray hair and ulcers.

All of that is a long way of answering your question… the truth is, just because a revolver has milled/forged parts in the lockworks does NOT mean it automatically has a better trigger action. As a matter of fact, my all-MIM M-360PD had a better trigger, new out of the box, than my slightly used 1966 vintage M-37 before I did some whittling on it and had it Black-T'ed.

That M-360PD has well north of 5K rounds through it, plus some dry-firing, and has smoothed up quite nicely. As much as I dislike the idea behind MIM parts, that revolver has been my constant carry companion, as a BUG, since 2002… and has made me realize that MIM is indeed okay, and plenty durable in the long run.

IOW… be not afraid of MIM action parts. Run like hell from the lock; or get rid of it in the proper manner.

.

[Chef]

I just verified via Facebook messenger that the 640 is indeed a no lock- they are all 640-1.


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[Dave J]

I just verified via Facebook messenger that the 640 is indeed a no lock- they are all 640-1.


Why am I thinking that my P-F membership just became more expensive? ;)

[Mitch]

I just verified via Facebook messenger that the 640 is indeed a no lock- they are all 640-1.


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I was on the fence between a 442 and a 640 pro. The Pro was a little more than I wanted to spend, but it's a tougher call between a no-lock 640 and a no lock 442.

Does anyone with a 640 pocket carry it? This is where I see J-frames working for me. If I have to put on a belt and belt holster to carry a 640, I'll use a P2000 or a P2000sk instead.

Of course, a 640 would be a great training gun to go with a 442.....


Damn you all.

[SeriousStudent]

............
Of course, a 640 would be a great training gun to go with a 442.....


.....

That is exactly why I have the 43C and 640. They are training guns for my 642's and 342.

[LtDave]

Ok, you guys seduced me to the dark side and I finally bought a 640 pro. Got it used off GunBroker at a fairly reasonable price for a 640 pro. When it arrived, the rear sight was loose in the dovetail. I fixed that with a shim from a Pepsi can, threw some Spegel grips on it and took it to the range today. Did pretty good centering up the rear sight, some loads were pretty close for windage at 15 yards, others were a little off, but not worthy of tweaking the rear sight any more. Off the bench, I got one load to go into 1" off the bench. Unfortunately, it was a Fiocchi 158 gr FMJ and not a decent JHP. Elevation with everything was low, ranging from about 2" to 5" below point of aim. Best groups were with the aforementioned Fiocchi load and factory wadcutters. Wadcutters from Federal went into 1.25" and Winchester 1.5". The Winchesters were dead on for windage. Groups with Remington and Fiocchi wadcutters were slightly larger. The Remington wadcutters also hit substantially lower on the target. Most of the good shooting loads were about 3" low, maybe a little below the dots on the sights, so I guess this is a "shoot the dots" gun as opposed to a shoot to the top of the front sight gun. Remington 158 gr LSWCHP, Winchester Ranger 130 Bonded and Speer 135 Gold dots all shot about 5" low. That being said, I really like the sights. I can actually see them. I also shot my '60's vintage Model 37 airweight today, and that 1/10" black front sight has become really small and hard to see for my 60 year old eyes.

[orionz06]

Serious question -- who is covering revolver questions this weekend with Darryl at the Rangemaster rain fest this weekend?

I believe DB had the time off approved.

[Mitch]

Anyone bought one of the 640 police trade ins on the market right now? Hard to tell if there is a lock

SMITH & WESSON 640 .357 MAG SS SNUB NOSE - VERY GOOD CONDITION
AVAILABILITY: IN STOCK YOUR PRICE:$499.95


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160312/15e579eae90520f1ca0ffde4c6355f77.jpg

I just ordered one of these. If anyone else is interested I'll be happy to post some pictures once I have it.

[tanner]

I was on the fence between a 442 and a 640 pro. The Pro was a little more than I wanted to spend, but it's a tougher call between a no-lock 640 and a no lock 442.

Does anyone with a 640 pocket carry it? This is where I see J-frames working for me. If I have to put on a belt and belt holster to carry a 640, I'll use a P2000 or a P2000sk instead.

Of course, a 640 would be a great training gun to go with a 442.....


Damn you all.

My brand new 640 Pro just landed in my hot little hands two days ago. A trainer for my 642? Sure!

Nevermind that I could have bought two used 642's for about the same price. lol

IMO, the 640 is a bit on the heavy side for pocket carry. It is a solid little chunk of steel.

Ordered a couple of cases of wadcutters to put through it from Precision Delta as well.

Most. Expensive. Thread. Ever. (for me anyways)

[SLG]

I'm quite sure the trigger on that 640 in the picture is mim. You can kinda see the void in the back.


"This kind of inconsistency is why serious S&W collectors have something to do with their time."

fify, 972.

[LSP972]

"This kind of inconsistency is why serious S&W collectors have something to do with their time."

fify, 972.

No argument there… but they still have gray hair and ulcers.;)

.

[JAD]

Probably the rest of us here who try to impart a bit of revolver knowledge.

.

Sure, you know all about shooting and fixing them, but I haven't seen any evidence that you've got the revolvers-as-401k angle covered.

It's not much of a gap, but it's a gap.

[LSP972]

Sure, you know all about shooting and fixing them, but I haven't seen any evidence that you've got the revolvers-as-401k angle covered.

It's not much of a gap, but it's a gap.

LOL. Busted!

.

[Dagga Boy]

Probably the rest of us here who try to impart a bit of revolver knowledge.

.

Trust me, I run the acquisitions department, you and a few others are under no threat of job loss in the Armory. I am usually banned from areas where tools and guns are in the same place.

I am beginning to think that we need to get Novaks to do a run of an all black replacement rear sight for the 640 Pro to adjust for the low shooting with the loads most people are carrying.

[LSP972]

Trust me, I run the acquisitions department, you and a few others are under no threat of job loss in the Armory.

Oh, I didn't feel threatened. I just thought it an odd question.

.

[LtDave]

I am beginning to think that we need to get Novaks to do a run of an all black replacement rear sight for the 640 Pro to adjust for the low shooting with the loads most people are carrying.

Or a lower front sight. Looking at my 640, I think there's enough meat on the front sight base to cut it down a few thousandths, recut the dovetail and reuse the original front. I think my local guy could do it if I got serious.

[Dagga Boy]

Or a lower front sight. Looking at my 640, I think there's enough meat on the front sight base to cut it down a few thousandths, recut the dovetail and reuse the original front. I think my local guy could do it if I got serious.

The rear dots are terrible. Figure just doing a new rear would be easiest to kill two birds with one stone.

[GJM]

wider notch, too?

[LtDave]

Maybe someting like a Heine?

[SLG]

Oh, I didn't feel threatened. I just thought it an odd question.

.

Pretty sure it was a joke. then again, I thought VDM was kidding too. Made me write a whole bunch of humor that turned out to not be humorous.

[GJM]

Pretty sure it was a joke. then again, I thought VDM was kidding too. Made me write a whole bunch of humor that turned out to not be humorous.

You are slowly getting funnier.....

[LSP972]

Pretty sure it was a joke. then again, I thought VDM was kidding too. Made me write a whole bunch of humor that turned out to not be humorous.

Yeah. Getting hard to tell, these days.

.

[Poconnor]

S&W needs to make a 642 pro with a wide notch black sight. I would love to get both a 640 pro for training and a 642 pro for pocket carry. They need the Wiley clap brass bead front black rear sight combo. My eyes aren't getting any younger

[Totem Polar]

S&W needs... the Wiley clap brass bead front black rear sight combo on all their wheelies. My eyes aren't getting any younger

FIFY

[Digiroc]

I have a Scandium/titatium 360 Airlite.
Talk about tough to shoot...

I have an Airlite too. I shoot .38s and carry .357s. I shot it only 5 times (in succession) with .357s just to get the "feel" of it. It's mean. My wrist hurt for two days after that, first and last time firing it with those loads.

I held a 640 Pro today at the gun shop. Dry fire was smooth until the break, which felt a bit gritty for a Smith. The shop is having "Smith & Wesson Days" this weekend with discounts and prizes given by the factory reps. I may go back and see what's on offer. Buying a 640 Pro would actually give me a gun I could shoot. I'll be keeping the Airlite to carry and the Pro for the range.

Digiroc

[serialsolver]

Did someone say 340pd? My vote for the best pocket gun ever.

http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee179/serialsolver/A4E0AEFE-2F08-4004-91CC-CE72FEDB3FC3_zps4gz8z1kr.jpg (http://s233.photobucket.com/user/serialsolver/media/A4E0AEFE-2F08-4004-91CC-CE72FEDB3FC3_zps4gz8z1kr.jpg.html)

I recently replaced the rubber grips with some old stuff so my hands would slip across the grips easier. There with it is my homemade pocket holster.

http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee179/serialsolver/AD8B9D6E-991C-4F58-9C60-99C30ED58E4D_zpsvlhzv29j.jpg (http://s233.photobucket.com/user/serialsolver/media/AD8B9D6E-991C-4F58-9C60-99C30ED58E4D_zpsvlhzv29j.jpg.html)

It almost fits in my shirt pocket. With 357 mags it is the greatest flinch inducer. Yeah, I keep it loaded with wadcutters.

This thread has renewed my appreciation for j frames. Thanks.




Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

So today I realized that the340pd DOES fit in the shirt pocket of the fishing shirts I wear in the summer. A pleasant discovery.

[Digiroc]

I have an Airlite too. I shoot .38s and carry .357s. I shot it only 5 times (in succession) with .357s just to get the "feel" of it. It's mean. My wrist hurt for two days after that, first and last time firing it with those loads.

I held a 640 Pro today at the gun shop. Dry fire was smooth until the break, which felt a bit gritty for a Smith. The shop is having "Smith & Wesson Days" this weekend with discounts and prizes given by the factory reps. I may go back and see what's on offer. Buying a 640 Pro would actually give me a gun I could shoot. I'll be keeping the Airlite to carry and the Pro for the range.

Digiroc


Not sure if it's cool to quote myself but I thought I'd give an update to the "Smith & Wesson Days" event at Ace Sporting Goods a not so local gun shop in my area. I went back and bought a 640 Pro at a $50 discount, still a bit over online prices at $729 but cash and carry plus a S&W hat and a spin on the prize wheel that got me a lame thermos bottle that didn't even have a S&W logo on it.

Of course I went right home to try it out and the first shot locked it up and it wouldn't fire again. Needless to say I jumped in my car and made the 25 mile trip back to Ace Sporing Goods to either get my money back or get one that worked. When I got there they tried to blame the ammo, Remington Golden Saber, which I bought with the gun asking for a round that was not too hot. Of course factory ammo can get overloaded, but still I mean a brand new S&W Pro, all steel should handle factory loads, right?

Next stop was their gunsmith who took the side plate off and a tiny piece of metal, probably just a burr jumped out and then the weapon cycled properly. He went and fired it into a tank somewhere in the basement, I could hear several pop's as he shot it. He brought it back and declared it "fixed". I suppose I was lucky that the burr gummed up the works on the first shot and not later, even much later, as it floated around in the works.

The S&W factory rep was a bit more sympathetic than the gun store staff, I waited around until I got his attention and explained the situation. He took me out to his car and gave me another hat and a T-shirt plus a thing called a "Tactical Pen" that is a pen in a fluted metal spike, blood grooves I suppose. He said they sell for $40. Looks like a high end pen with a pocket clip and all, pretty slick actually. I guess it's a back-up in case another burr jams the weapon.

Well it's my "shooter" so I don't expect to carry it much as it feels like and anchor compared to my Airlite. What are your collective thoughts on this, perhaps isolated, incident?

Digiroc

[LSP972]

It happens. Things like this constantly poke holes in the "Revolvers NEVER jam!" bleat that the uninformed parrot with depressing regularity. Hopefully, you'll never have another issue with it.

However, I'd look for another shop to trade with if I were you.

.

[Dagga Boy]

Current Smith QC is crap. You will likely be fine, but these guns are not like the ones of old, particularly in the actions and finishing department. I would actually send it to someone competent, get a good action job done or an Apex Kit at minimum and go from there. Keep in mind, the best role for the gun is as a trainer for your airweight and a supplemental. Spend the time shooting it. You will find your ability with the Airwoeght is much better from working with the 640 regularly.

[L-2]

My S&W quality experiences:

My 442, bought in 7/15 began getting light strikes at ~3,000 rounds and something didn't feel quite right. S&W's customer service was great. S&W emailed a shipping label; determined there was a broken internal pin (don't know which one); sent a new gun; paid for the dealer's charges ($50) to receive the gun and register it to me.

My two new S&W revolvers bought 2/16 are so-far-so-good. I seem to be carrying the 640Pro (~1500 rounds) everyday as a backup gun to some other gun-of-the-day; and my 627Pro (~2,000 rounds) had some light strikes mainly with Armscor ammo and a few with Speer Lawman ammo. I found the strain screw needed tightening and for good measure, I installed the slightly longer Apex firing pin after I still got a few light strikes. Now shooting other ammo, I've not gotten anymore light strikes in the last 500 rounds. Hopefully, this was primarily an ammo-related problem.

My 15 year old 642 has been fine and has also been a work backup gun.

My used 66-2 (~1985-'86) had a broken firing pin (external firing pin); and it had developed excessive end-shake. Each time, S&W fixed these problems but I had to send the gun back twice for each problem. The end-shake problem was at my cost, me not being the original owner.

[jh9]

and my 627Pro (~2,000 rounds) had some light strikes mainly with Armscor ammo and a few with Speer Lawman ammo. I found the strain screw needed tightening and for good measure, I installed the slightly longer Apex firing pin after I still got a few light strikes. Now shooting other ammo, I've not gotten anymore light strikes in the last 500 rounds. Hopefully, this was primarily an ammo-related problem.

My 627pro came with what looks like a Wolff type 2 (light/competition) mainspring and a longer than 'standard' strain screw. I also put an Apex firing pin in it and haven't had any issues with foreign primers (Fiocchi) or the handful of CCI Magnums (.357 Gold Dots) I tried in it. If it's lightning off foreign caps and CCIs (presumably what's in the speer lawman ammo) after you got the strain screw torqued all the way down it should be good?

I borrowed a 100 cci magnum primers from a friend and just to satisfy my curiosity I'm going to load those up and try them. If it'll bust those with the light mainspring it should pop off any domestic ammo.

Just another data point I guess. I was surprised to see a reduced power mainspring in a production gun, but so far it's worked.

[Jared]

My 627pro came with what looks like a Wolff type 2 (light/competition) mainspring and a longer than 'standard' strain screw. I also put an Apex firing pin in it and haven't had any issues with foreign primers (Fiocchi) or the handful of CCI Magnums (.357 Gold Dots) I tried in it. If it's lightning off foreign caps and CCIs (presumably what's in the speer lawman ammo) after you got the strain screw torqued all the way down it should be good?

I borrowed a 100 cci magnum primers from a friend and just to satisfy my curiosity I'm going to load those up and try them. If it'll bust those with the light mainspring it should pop off any domestic ammo.

Just another data point I guess. I was surprised to see a reduced power mainspring in a production gun, but so far it's worked.

I think that's the standard mainspring in the L and N frame Pro Series revolvers. The catalog lists "bossed mainspring" as a feature on several of them.

Mine have busted all the primers put under them just fine, which have all been domestic.

[Digiroc]

These are my "Day and Night" weapons:

6938

The difference is night and day when shooting or carrying. Note the bobbed hammer on the Airlite. The 640 Pro will allow me to practice even with .357s. I doubt if I'll ever shoot the Airlite with .357s again. Once was enough, although I may allow others to try it with full defensive loads just so I can say "I told you so"

Digiroc

[serialsolver]

My 627pro came with what looks like a Wolff type 2 (light/competition) mainspring and a longer than 'standard' strain screw. I also put an Apex firing pin in it and haven't had any issues with foreign primers (Fiocchi) or the handful of CCI Magnums (.357 Gold Dots) I tried in it. If it's lightning off foreign caps and CCIs (presumably what's in the speer lawman ammo) after you got the strain screw torqued all the way down it should be good?

I borrowed a 100 cci magnum primers from a friend and just to satisfy my curiosity I'm going to load those up and try them. If it'll bust those with the light mainspring it should pop off any domestic ammo.

Just another data point I guess. I was surprised to see a reduced power mainspring in a production gun, but so far it's worked.

Both of the 327pc I owned had the Wolff light mainspring.

[jh9]

I think that's the standard mainspring in the L and N frame Pro Series revolvers. The catalog lists "bossed mainspring" as a feature on several of them.

Mine have busted all the primers put under them just fine, which have all been domestic.


Both of the 327pc I owned had the Wolff light mainspring.

I didn't realize they were including it with that many models. Interesting.

Is there any word on whether the included spring is actually a Wolff Type 2 or if it's something Wolff does specifically for S&W? Maybe something between their type 1 "factory" and the type 2 "competition" in strength?

[L-2]

I don't know the differences between S&W or Wolff mainsprings, but on my new 627Pro, it does have that "Power Rib" shape to it, which Wolff advertises.

[jh9]

I don't know the differences between S&W or Wolff mainsprings, but on my new 627Pro, it does have that "Power Rib" shape to it, which Wolff advertises.

Pics attached of a Wolff Type 1 ("factory") and a regular OEM S&W mainspring. The two on the top are both Wolff Type 1. The only type 2 I have is in the 627 and I'm too lazy to pull it out. It has noticeably more bend at the top near the hooks, IIRC. Wolff has gone through several revisions of their mainspring since the FMFP became standard in the late 90s. The gray coating is maybe 5ish years old? I think now they're back to plain black steel. The plain black one is newer, and is also representative of what they *used* to look like.

[Digiroc]

One of my 640 Pro's "features" is capability to use full moon clips. I thought this was a good idea, instant speed loader. In practice, for me at least, I find both ejecting and loading the weapon tricky and slow. The problem being that the rounds are not stable as they are in conventional speed loaders. Also they bend easily and if bent could that cause insertion problems.

Ejecting all five at once causes hang-ups if the cylinder is not fully open, hitting the plunger often moves the cylinder enough to retain the rounds. Inserting a fresh clip is also slow if the bullets don't line up perfectly. Is there a way to deal with this?

Digiroc

[LSP972]

What you describe is what killed the 940 (Centennial-style 9mm J frame from the early 90s); for my troops, anyway. It appeared at the same time that 9mm bottom feeders were really picking up steam amongst the road guys. We had a delusional Superintendent at the time, who stopped all department issue of sidearms- so the new guys had to buy their own, ditto the older guys who wanted a semi-auto- until said whacko left and his replacement took care of business.

Perhaps a dozen guys bought a 940, and eagerly brought them to in-service. A bent clip- of which there were many- would pretty much shut things down. The gun would shoot without one; but better have a pencil in your pocket to punch out each individual empty with. By the third year, I stopped seeing them, period.

I have nothing to offer as a solution, other than to say that experience was why I roundly shun any revolver that uses clips. Even the sturdy "half-moon" clips produced for the government for the M1917 revolvers would bend rather easily. I read somewhere that they were intended to be a one-use item.

Hopefully DB will chime in here; he's who I would go to if I had your problem.

.

[Jared]

One of my 640 Pro's "features" is capability to use full moon clips. I thought this was a good idea, instant speed loader. In practice, for me at least, I find both ejecting and loading the weapon tricky and slow. The problem being that the rounds are not stable as they are in conventional speed loaders. Also they bend easily and if bent could that cause insertion problems.

Ejecting all five at once causes hang-ups if the cylinder is not fully open, hitting the plunger often moves the cylinder enough to retain the rounds. Inserting a fresh clip is also slow if the bullets don't line up perfectly. Is there a way to deal with this?

Digiroc

Yup, it's called dry practice or dry fire. 15 minutes a day spent on reloading skills will pay big dividends in a month or so.

[SLG]

Yup, it's called dry practice or dry fire. 15 minutes a day spent on reloading skills will pay big dividends in a month or so.

I'll second that, but only if you are practicing the right things.

When i reload a revolver (I hate moon clips, and do not use them), I invert the gun fully. One hand holds the cylinder in the fully out position, the other hand hits the ejector rod. I never have the issues you have described.

I was vague on what hand does what, because it really doesn't matter. If you like to eject them with your support hand thumb, while holding the gun with your support hand as well, have at it. It works fine, but it is not a technique I favor.

[Digiroc]

... only if you are practicing the right things.

My practice is going to be just not using them.


When i reload a revolver (I hate moon clips, and do not use them), I invert the gun fully. One hand holds the cylinder in the fully out position, the other hand hits the ejector rod. I never have the issues you have described...

Now that I'll practice.

Digiroc

[BehindBlueI's]

One of my 640 Pro's "features" is capability to use full moon clips. I thought this was a good idea, instant speed loader. In practice, for me at least, I find both ejecting and loading the weapon tricky and slow. The problem being that the rounds are not stable as they are in conventional speed loaders. Also they bend easily and if bent could that cause insertion problems.

Ejecting all five at once causes hang-ups if the cylinder is not fully open, hitting the plunger often moves the cylinder enough to retain the rounds. Inserting a fresh clip is also slow if the bullets don't line up perfectly. Is there a way to deal with this?

Digiroc

Well, to an extent there is. As Jared said, it requires practice but you never hear "holy shit, did you see that blazing fast j-frame reload?" for a reason. Keep in mind I'm speaking in general, as I don't own a 640. Snubby reloads tend to be slow, that's not their strong suit.

Snubbies have short ejectors because they have short barrels. .357 brass is long. You need inertia to get the brass to clear, and that means whacking the ejector with authority. If you're thumb punching it, you probably are going to get hanging brass. Switching to .38 may allow more consistent ejection. You should also be holding the cylinder all the way open.

Thin moon clips are a weak spot in the reliability of revolvers. Bend one and you've tied your gun up.

As far as reloading, I use speed strips for small revolvers. Wiggling in speed loaders is more pain than it's worth and I don't have any little guns cut for moon clips. As a rule, round nose ammo is easier as it will be more forgiving and funnel itself into the chambers vs flat point or hollow point. Using an index finger along side one bullet to guide it works well with speed loaders, not sure how well it would work with little moon clips, but you can give it a try.

As I recall, you routinely carry two guns. I do as well. Transition to another gun if time is of the essence.

Now, if it was me I'd not dick around with the moon clips and would just carry a speed strip. That's what I do for my LCR for the unlikely event I need to reload it. I do it like this:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pMAXlT3ZLzs

There's more than one way to skin the cat of getting the gun empty, but start here:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oXUwI_d8JlA&ebc=ANyPxKpv1MvWjdR7ZedOKCTGY15DDHPmd3Y8apKOJE6Shb 30pqw6EztgFN6PyJURrWXXuEltEUnCqheWBrVFalsEqDgHCFHs tA&nohtml5=False

Now, the bad news is it's difficult and requires frequent training to be smooth and consistent with your revolver reloads and the smaller the revolver the more that's exacerbated. The good news is it's a skill that's very seldom tested in random violence situations. If you're willing to make dummy rounds (or buy them) and practice you'll get better...but don't expect miracles.

[NEPAKevin]

As I recall, you routinely carry two guns. I do as well. Transition to another gun if time is of the essence.





https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aUxYXwbP3nI

For S&Gs, one more Mas video.

[Zeke38]

Just wanted to add a pic of my 640 Pro! Because I'm playing with image size on Photobucket and trying to get them to transfer at max size! Love the 640 Pro bought mine when it was first announced!
http://i626.photobucket.com/albums/tt345/Bronco45_album/640Pro357.jpg (http://s626.photobucket.com/user/Bronco45_album/media/640Pro357.jpg.html)

Nope staying at 320 size not bumping up to 800? Back to drawing board!

[Digiroc]

I've added a CT laser grip to my AirLite and it works well to reduce felt recoil. I can actually shoot +p .38's without much pain. The rubber CT grips have an air channel over the backstrap that absorbs much of the recoil:

7837

Note the "tactical pen" that the S&W rep gave me in case my 640 Pro fails again. Also note the self bobbed hammer that I ground off with an angle grinder. The shine from the cut actually helps with sight alignment when putting the weapon up. Of course the laser does too, especially in dark conditions.

I consider the AirLite as my primary CCW, it is always on me in AIWB and just feels natural there. Very unobtrusive even with only jeans and a T-shirt over it. I also carry my Kimber Ultra II or a recently acquired CS9 when I feel a backup to the 5 shot AirLite is prudent. Although I carry a speed strip with 5 more +p (Rem Golden Sabers) I consider trying to reload the J frame as a good way to lose a gun fight.

I'm getting away from "mexican carry" after the derision I received in the romper room posts and now use a clip on IWB carried at the 8 o'clock position so my left hand can get to my backup before I need to do a "NY re-load". Having a gun in both hands can be an advantage in some situations, one being if my right arm becomes disabled I can carry on the fight with my weak (left) hand.

Some talk in this thread about aged pistoleros resorting to J frames as carry guns and I am in that category, turning 69 in about a month. I no longer venture into dangerous territory much now, so a snubby should suffice for personal protection. Carrying a second weapon as a backup is probably overkill for me at this point in my life, but after all it is my life so overkill is not a bad practice.

A word about situational awareness. Knowing what could be coming and if possible avoiding it is my prime directive. If it can't be avoided having a gun in hand is better than any fast draw, especially from concealment. If I am ever in a gunfight I want to have the advantage of the first shot, and the last.

Knives. I'm a fan of edged weapons and have a good collection of same, but I don't consider them as defensive weapons. Never bring a knife to a gunfight is good advice, and one I adhere to. This is why I carry a gun, having one in hand defeats the bogus "21 foot rule" every time.

To get back on topic, my purchase of a 640 Pro Series has been a great investment, it's my shooter and great bedside gun with it's night sights. It's a pretty thing, stainless and all and a nice shooter that enhances my capabilities with my somewhat ugly AirLite. Kind of like comparing my Kimber to the CS9 which is, in black finish, an all business weapon that's lighter and easier to carry.

Digiroc

[FotoTomas]

I realize after reading through the entire thread that I am somewhat late to this party. So much written and so much to comment on. Alas I will simplify since most has been written in this thread already. I want a 640 Pro. Never gave them much thought till this thread. Probably not get one since as I head to my permanent "J" frame lifestyle I am looking to simplify the collection not add more. The 638 is my primary EDC now in a DeSantis Nemesis in my strong hand front pants pocket. The 642 in the house resides in an identical holster in my weak side cargo pocket. Two HKS speedloaders in the strong side cargo pocket. I find those revolvers to best fit my current lifestyle and having a New York Reload is the best option when it comes to continuing a fight past 5 rounds. For me the 158 gr lead SWCHP in +P is the ammo on board and at present 148 grain wadcutters give me good training options without the abusive airweight +P recoil. I have sold off all of the little semi pistols the PM9's, SIG 290Rs, KelTec P3AT and Ruger LCP. Small revolver is my only plan for pocket carry now. Speaking of revolvers I let the Colt DS and Cobra go as well. I want current in production handguns for my EDC. Something that will be easy to maintain and repair. I also do not want as many shooting irons around as my retirement plans have me looking hard at a RV style retirement. Getting rid of lots of the excess "stuff" I have accumulated due to space and security concerns has me looking at a very simple battery of personal arms. It will be struggle to control my "IGOTTAHAVEIT" addiction.

[Nephrology]

It will be struggle to control my "IGOTTAHAVEIT" addiction.

The story of firearms ownership summarized in one sentence

[LockedBreech]

My gottahaveit is costing me $380 in two weeks. 64-1 from the mid 1970s.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[rainman]

My gottahaveit is costing me $380 in two weeks. 64-1 from the mid 1970s.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

If in nice shape, that sounds like a bargain from what I've seen of K-frame prices recently.

Remember to post pics!


-Rainman

[Nephrology]

My gottahaveit is costing me $380 in two weeks. 64-1 from the mid 1970s.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

ditto... 28-2 from 1961-1962.

http://www.gunbroker.com/item/559486392

[Trukinjp13]

I have been trying to find a dao 9mm single stack. Only one I have found is the p290rs. Which I finally got to actually look at. I can not warm up to it. But I keep going back to a smaller revolver. I have a 637 that the wife likes. But I am not a huge fan of the hammer and it is not the easiest shooting gun with the crappy sights. I am leaning on the 640 pro. Heavier but the sights look way better and its dao. Also I would enjoy just shooting it and I know she would love it. She likes the 637 but no more then 50 rounds if that at a time.

[LtDave]

I love the 640 pro, but am having fits getting it to shoot anywhere near the sights. Almost everything is 3" to 5" low at 15 yards. So far, the only load anywhere close in elevation is a .357 handload with 180 grain Sierra and a modest charge of 700-X. Still an inch or so low.

[tanner]

I too am hitting low with everything I am putting through it (all .38 variety so far).

[OlongJohnson]

640 Pro is $620 shipped at KYGunCo right now.

https://www.kygunco.com/Product/View?ItemNo=100996

[Eastex]

What is it, their 'It's September and we know you just got done enrolling your daughter in College' sale ?? Oh well, maybe she'll get a great job someday and maybe we'll still be able to buy 5 shot revolvers by then.....



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[LSP972]

Dunno, but mine will be here in a day or so. Hope I don't have the low POI issues Dave is having.

.

[camsdaddy]

I love the 640 pro, but am having fits getting it to shoot anywhere near the sights. Almost everything is 3" to 5" low at 15 yards. So far, the only load anywhere close in elevation is a .357 handload with 180 grain Sierra and a modest charge of 700-X. Still an inch or so low.


I too am hitting low with everything I am putting through it (all .38 variety so far).


Dunno, but mine will be here in a day or so. Hope I don't have the low POI issues Dave is having.

.

I just shipped my 360j back today for this very reason.

[LSP972]

I just shipped my 360j back today for this very reason.

With the "new" two piece barrel arrangement (a stainless rifled tube secured to the frame by a threaded shroud), that sort of thing is not uncommon. Shoddy, yes... but not uncommon. But it looked to me like the 640 Pro had an old-style one-piece barrel. When the wrong POI occurs with that set-up, it can be a real PITA to correct.

If your 360J has the "new" two-piece set-up, they should be able to correct that without any drama... IF they do it. I'm not familiar with that particular J frame; haven't even seen one, although I understand it is a new offering. Hopefully, they will correct yours properly at the first attempt. I was just informed that my 640 Pro has arrived, but I'm right in the middle of getting set up for radiation treatment, so it will be a few days before I can go scoop it up... much less shoot it. They said this nuking my left temporal lobe would not cause me any pain or weakness... why do I not believe that???:cool:

.

[camsdaddy]

Thank you for the info and explanation of the new barrel issue.
Regardless of how the barrel/POI turns out I hope your procedure turns out well.
Im sure they wouldnt lie to you.

[LSP972]

Thanks for the good wishes.

.

[OldRunner/CSAT Neighbor]

With the "new" two piece barrel arrangement (a stainless rifled tube secured to the frame by a threaded shroud), that sort of thing is not uncommon. Shoddy, yes... but not uncommon. But it looked to me like the 640 Pro had an old-style one-piece barrel. When the wrong POI occurs with that set-up, it can be a real PITA to correct.

If your 360J has the "new" two-piece set-up, they should be able to correct that without any drama... IF they do it. I'm not familiar with that particular J frame; haven't even seen one, although I understand it is a new offering. Hopefully, they will correct yours properly at the first attempt. I was just informed that my 640 Pro has arrived, but I'm right in the middle of getting set up for radiation treatment, so it will be a few days before I can go scoop it up... much less shoot it. They said this nuking my left temporal lobe would not cause me any pain or weakness... why do I not believe that???:cool:

.

LSP as a fella that was raised & raised my own family in NWLA (caddo/S'port), plus knew a number of Troop G men back in the day, prayers out brother from this ETXn.

[LSP972]

LSP as a fella that was raised & raised my own family in NWLA (caddo/S'port), plus knew a number of Troop G men back in the day, prayers out brother from this ETXn.

Thank you, sir. I started in Troop F... Knew/ know a lot of old Troop G hands.

.

[Nephrology]

They said this nuking my left temporal lobe would not cause me any pain or weakness... why do I not believe that???:cool:

.

There shouldn't be any pain that results directly from irradiating your L. temporal as the brain doesn't have pain fibers of its own; hence why they are able to do brain surgery on people while they are awake. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OQ3_IXuhZxQ) When I was at the Mayo they even circulated a video of a patient undergoing DBS surgery while they played the violin (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T3QQOQAILZw) (you can find many similar videos taken at other institutions too). I have no idea whether or not you shouldn't expect weakness either but as camsdaddy said they probably aren't lying to you.

That said I have also had procedures done where I was told I should not expect any pain and I most DEFINITELY did. They weren't working on my brain - different organ system entirely - so my anecdote shouldn't scare you or anything, but if you do experience any pain/weakness definitely let your docs know right away so they can take care of you. Very very best of luck - not a terribly religious person but I'll take the time to say a prayer on your behalf.

[LSP972]

Thanks. I ain't skeered... just pissed off.;)

But when they cracked open my skull to remove that tennis ball sized tumor, they damn sure put me OUT. Seemed like the smart thing to do at the time... :cool:

.

[11B10]

Thanks. I ain't skeered... just pissed off.;)

But when they cracked open my skull to remove that tennis ball sized tumor, they damn sure put me OUT. Seemed like the smart thing to do at the time... :cool:

.




All my thoughts and prayers, brother!

[Nephrology]

Thanks. I ain't skeered... just pissed off.;)

But when they cracked open my skull to remove that tennis ball sized tumor, they damn sure put me OUT. Seemed like the smart thing to do at the time... :cool:

.

Oh it was indeed... to my limited knowledge they only keep patients awake when they are worried about impinging on specific functions, and want to give the patient verbal instructions/get verbal feedback about how what they are doing is making them feel. I know, it's really weird.

[LSP972]

The cutter said he could remove most of the cancer... but doing that might make me a turnip. I said thanks, but no thanks, I'll take my chances the old- fashioned way...:cool:

.

[LSP972]

I finally got around to picking up my 640 Pro yesterday. Aside from a mushy trigger return, everything else looks okay. I detail-stripped it last night... didn't find any chips or shavings like you are likely to see in a new revolver, but that moly lube they are using now sure is thick and sluggish.

Today I'll clean it up, break the inside corner of the rebound slide, properly lube it, and we'll see how it shoots. It weighs a metric ton, so along with the Pachmyar Compac rubber stocks I replaced the ones it came with, it ought to be a pussycat.

I just hope the barrel is properly regulated.

.

[Eastex]

, break the inside corner of the rebound slide,
.

I'm still learning my way around, that's why I'm glad I've wound up on this forum. I know what the rebound slide is and what it does and I know that it can be stoned to smooth out the action. I'm under the impression that it's just the flats that are worked on. Are you saying you round off the corner? Is it the one closest to the cylinder?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[jeep45238]

If the corner is rounded it will ensure there can be no burr or sharp edge dragging on the frame, and slightly reduces the surface are rubbing the frame as well.

[LSP972]

If the corner is rounded it will ensure there can be no burr or sharp edge dragging on the frame, and slightly reduces the surface are rubbing the frame as well.

This, Eastex. And guess what??? The MIM rebound slide in this little beast already HAS a rounded corner! Eureka! BTW, the corner we refer to is the lower right corner, if you are looking at the slide from the rear. I'm on my iPad now, waiting to get nuked again, but I'll be home later this afternoon and take some photos for you here before I button the beast back up.

If the barrel is properly regulated (IOW, it shoots to POA), it is going to be the ideal practice J frame. I'm liking it more and more.

.

Yes, the flats needed a bit of smoothing too. But S&W has got the program down with these MIM action parts. I am actually impressed.

[Dagga Boy]

Make sure you are using 158 plus P, as it is usually the only thing that will be close to zero.

[LSP972]

Okay, Eastex, let's see if this works. The photos aren't the best; my brother has my macro stuff, so I had to wing it with a less-than-optimal lens.

This first one is the rebound slide as it came out of the revolver. You can clearly see the rounded edge at the bottom right corner. This is where the rebound slide rubs against the side plate, and is therefore more needy of a smooth surface than the lower left corner, which rides against the frame.

[LSP972]

This photo is of the rebound slide inverted... after I broke the lower left corner just a bit with an Arkansas stone. You gotta be CAREFUL doing this; too much and the slide will wallow around in there. That never ends well.

[LSP972]

And here is how the rebound slide fits into the frame; where it lives, if you will.

Hope this has answered your questions.

[LSP972]

Make sure you are using 158 plus P, as it is usually the only thing that will be close to zero.

I've got a metric shit-load of different factory and reloads to try. I'll give a brief finding after I've done that. I'm thinking ten yards initially, with the better (i.e., more accurate/ good POI) rounds "tested" further @ 25 yards.

What do you think?

.

[Eastex]

Thanks very much, I think I've got it. I've got a 18 year old and I've told her many times that she would be better off trying to learn from people who already know things rather than trying to figure everything out herself.
My 642 came with a "Performance Center" action job on it and I think I caught them on a really good day. I'm fine with it as is but I can already tell that it probably won't be my last and I may not always get one as smooth as it is.
I've got a couple more questions if you don't mind. What are you going to replace the factory lube with? Also, what do you or any of the other folks here think about the Apex or similar spring kits in J frames? Reliable, practical??


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[LSP972]

What are you going to replace the factory lube with?


Good old oil... LIGHT oil, only on the frame studs (which the hammer, trigger, and cylinder stop ride on) and on the two yoke bearing surfaces that the cylinder it self rides on. Any more is overkill, and in fact can cause issues depending on what, where, and how much TOO much, you use.

I have installed a half-dozen or so Apex kits in Centennial (non-external hammer) J frames. These "kits" contained a lighter main spring... Which is a real PITA to change on the J frame hammer stirrup... a lighter firing pin, and slightly stouter firing pin spring. These are the only ones I know about. I've been told that Apex offers various types of "kits".

Anyway, no problems that I know of; the stuff works as advertised. Pardon my being snarky, but you would think that after all the energy Apex has put into trying to fix the 9mm M&P, they ought to make good stuff... Eh?;)

.

[Imaposer2]

Okay, Eastex, let's see if this works. The photos aren't the best; my brother has my macro stuff, so I had to wing it with a less-than-optimal lens.

This first one is the rebound slide as it came out of the revolver. You can clearly see the rounded edge at the bottom right corner. This is where the rebound slide rubs against the side plate, and is therefore more needy of a smooth surface than the lower left corner, which rides against the frame.

Isn't that view of the rebound slide from the front? Wouldn't that put the rounded edge on the lower right up against the frame rather than the side plate? Or am I looking at it wrong?

[Imaposer2]

Also, what do you or any of the other folks here think about the Apex or similar spring kits in J frames? Reliable, practical??


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While this may not be the popular answer, and I'm sure that many people use the Apex kits without issue, it's my opinion that the designers of these guns knew what they were doing when choosing the spring rates. When all is perfect, i.e. clean chambers, good well seated primers, etc, the lighter weight mainsprings may work fine but the factory weight spring is designed to overcome LESS than perfect conditions. For a gun used for defensive purposes I prefer to leave the mainspring stock to insure reliable ignition. YMMV.

For a range only gun, lighten away! I do have range only guns with lighter mainsprings. They work fine 99% of the time. But, I have had the occasional high primer in my handloads that caused them to choke. Never had an issue with my handloads in any of my revolvers using the factory mainsprings.

With that said, I've found that with a proper polish of the rebound slide, radius of the hammer block "nub", and the mating surface on the bottom of the hammer, and reducing friction of the relevant parts, you CAN lighten the rebound spring a bit. I feel that this does more to lighten the perceived trigger weight than lightening the mainspring, and without sacrificing ignition reliability. I use a 14-15 lb rebound spring (stock is 18lb) from Wolff and still maintain snappy reset. I wouldn't recommend this as a "drop in" solution though, because unless the work is done to reduce the friction that the rebound spring must overcome, you may end up with sluggish trigger reset.

[LSP972]

Isn't that view of the rebound slide from the front? Wouldn't that put the rounded edge on the lower right up against the frame rather than the side plate? Or am I looking at it wrong?

You're not. BIG fuck-up on my part. They gave me Butalb-Acetaminophen to try & reduce these frigging headaches, and apparently it is making me stupid... While not doing much against the headaches.

Good call, sir. The third photo of the frame shows it as well.

I need to back out of this for a while; my apologies.

.

[Imaposer2]

You're not. BIG fuck-up on my part. They gave me Butalb-Acetaminophen to try & reduce these frigging headaches, and apparently it is making me stupid... While not doing much against the headaches.

Easy mistake to make. I get the orientation of removed parts like that backwards in my head all the time. I actually looked at it, and twisted it around in my head, for a while before posting.


Good call, sir. The third photo of the frame shows it as well.

I need to back out of this for a while; my apologies.

.

I sincerely hope you won't! I always enjoy reading your posts, and your knowledge and experience is much appreciated.

Good luck with the headaches, and other side effects of your treatment.

[11B10]

You're not. BIG fuck-up on my part. They gave me Butalb-Acetaminophen to try & reduce these frigging headaches, and apparently it is making me stupid... While not doing much against the headaches.

Good call, sir. The third photo of the frame shows it as well.

I need to back out of this for a while; my apologies.

.




As always, the prayerway is being hammered for ya!

[jeep45238]

I really hate this thread....it's making me second guess a few things for my next purchase. For me, I've come to realize my J will probably be appendix, weak side, and while in a vehicle - so weight for pocket carry doesn't matter to much. But sights and control-ability that comes with that extra weight.

Time like this I'm glad I only have minor adult-ADHD and don't need meds.

[tanner]

I carry mine a lot more than I should. By that I mean I should be carrying something bigger, but the 640 is so damn easy.

As someone stated on a different thread and much more elegantly, the only thing I don't like about it is the 100% malfunction rate after 5 shots...

[Imaposer2]

I really hate this thread....it's making me second guess a few things for my next purchase. For me, I've come to realize my J will probably be appendix, weak side, and while in a vehicle - so weight for pocket carry doesn't matter to much. But sights and control-ability that comes with that extra weight.

Time like this I'm glad I only have minor adult-ADHD and don't need meds.

I'm pretty much in the same boat for the most part... Pocket carry just doesn't work for me for a multitude of reasons. For my needs I've never really found any significance to the weight difference between my 640, my 638, or any of the Ti/Sc super light weight models I've fondled over the years. Sure, holding them side by side I can feel the difference, but carrying them all day... I just don't notice...

The sights are a different story. The pinned black front sight on the 640 is a bit better than the milled in silver of the 638, and I've always planned to replace it (it is pinned after all) with something better, but never did... But then, I painted both fronts with a couple coats of white, followed by neon yellow, followed by neon orange, fingernail polish and I'll be damned! They show up better than any aftermarket sights I've tried, sans tritium in near complete darkness... And of course they also both wear TC laser grips too.

And the 640 is a bit easier to shoot due to the weight. Plus it does have a longer ejector rod if reloads are a concern.

Of course, with all that said, my main revolver, for when I choose to carry one, is my LCR with XS tritium front and TC laser grips. While light weight I don't find it punishing to shoot, and I just love the out of the box trigger! I do love the build quality of S&W revolvers, but the LCR trigger won me over.




I carry mine a lot more than I should. By that I mean I should be carrying something bigger, but the 640 is so damn easy.

As someone stated on a different thread and much more elegantly, the only thing I don't like about it is the 100% malfunction rate after 5 shots...

Guilty as charged! I'll admit that my J frames, and now my LCR, are often my primary EDC. I don't care to debate the philosophies of use, and yes, I do know all the arguments... The simple fact is that I spend a LOT of time in a NPE and a small revolver permits me to be armed when I might not otherwise be. At other times, my reality is that I have a very low threat level in my day to day activities. Sure, bad things can happen anywhere and at any time. I know that. That's why I choose to be armed most of the time, even though it's pretty unlikely that I'll ever need it. But, I also know that a small revolver is just SO damn easy to carry! It's comfortable. It's convenient. It's always a balance between perceived risk, and convenience.

Similar in some ways to wearing a seatbelt I suppose. I could throw caution to the wind and go around beltless... I mean, in my day to day travels around home, the speeds are low and the odds of me being in a serious accident are small. But, I never pull out of my driveway without buckling up. Why? Because it's easy, and it does offer me a level of protection that I wouldn't have otherwise.

Sure, a five point harness would be much safer... and a full face crash helmet would add a LOT of additional protection... I mean, after all, head injury is a significant cause of death in automobile accidents... And hell, I already have several really good motorcycle helmets, so why not??

Oh yeah! There's that risk vs. convenience thing again, isn't there?...

With that said, yes I do carry other, "more serious", firearms a lot of the time too. But for a lot of my day to day needs, I like the niche that my small frame revolvers fill.

[Dagga Boy]

J frames/LCR are sort of a tough call. For most of our lives a vast majority of issues can be handled with a snub, and it is a gun that is really easy to have on you at all times (which is often the most important issue). We always seem to plan for the worst and discount the snubs. I find you need to adapt your life to them, BUT if you train hard and consistently with the little guys, it is a solid way to be actually armed at every waking moment.

[Eastex]

I like the analogy with the seat belts versus the helmet/roll cage. I suppose there are people who train daily but I don't. I do try to work on my threat avoidance skills every time I leave the house. My wife and I were coming home from church a few weeks ago and saw a guy run off the road and hit a parked trailer-hard. It was raining and he just lost control. As I was walking towards his car while talking to 9/11 I had the thought that maybe it was someone running from the law so when I saw the passenger door open I already had my hand in my pocket just in case. Turns out it was just a kid who was going too fast and got bunged up and totaled his car but you never know.
I like shooting and I like practicing with my J frame but I really would like and need more practical threat avoidance training.


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[jeep45238]

So....where are ya'll snagging up the 640 pros? The best price I've found so far is Kentucky Gun Co, for $620

[Willard]

So....where are ya'll snagging up the 640 pros? The best price I've found so far is Kentucky Gun Co, for $620

I haven't purchased one yet (and have no experience with KY Gun Co), but from what I've researched, that is a very good price.

[jeep45238]

I thought so too, until I tried to snag it. Now it's 720.

[LSP972]

$720 is MSRP... At least, the hard case of the one I got from Kentucky Guns had that sticker on it.

I gave $670 for mine, because I was too lazy to get and send them a cashier's check and used a credit card.

Personally, I would have paid $720 for it.

.

[jeep45238]

That's reassuring! I found it can be had locally for $680 out the door cash, $700 card. We'll see if a few used options work out before I order it.

[Willard]

$680 OTD is better than anything I'm seeing on gunbroker.

[jeep45238]

Same. I've got a feeler out in a few places, but the price will have to be low enough to offset shipping, transfer fee, and the $30 rebate SW has right now.

[OlongJohnson]

I thought so too, until I tried to snag it. Now it's 720.

I have reason to believe they shipped a bunch of their inventory on this item back to S&W. Maybe that's why they no longer need to clear out shelf space.

[LSP972]

Yes. When I ordered mine, a few weeks ago, the fellow said they had 25 of them. Apparently, more than a few of those had defects.

Mine doesn't APPEAR to have a defect... but I still haven't shot it yet.

.

[jeep45238]

What sort of defects have you guys been hearing about?

[OlongJohnson]

Saw.

Key issues were an extremely irregular crown, and the part of the yoke that slides in behind the frame when the cylinder closes being fit incorrectly (or maybe the step of final fitting it skipped altogether) so it had 10-15 thousandths interference with the frame, and the surface on the yoke was rough ground like a Taurus. It was possible to apply enough pressure to get it to close, either by just dumbly pushing the cylinder home or by pushing the front of the yoke rearward. But seriously not even normally functional. It went back to KYGC, and I was told that when inspecting their inventory to send out a replacement, the one they'd shipped to my FFL wasn't the only one like that.

There's a thread over on S-Wforums complaining about a 686 crown with pictures just like the 640 I sent back. The last SSR I inspected had the counterbore for the "11-degree target crown" offset pretty far from the bore centerline, too.

The ratchet on every recent production S&W I've looked at has had severe burrs on every edge. Not just left sharp, but a big, jagged burr that the hand has to drag across. Reset is like gravel.

I'm not generally one to gripe about current production and how they don't make them like they used to, but S&W really needs to figure some stuff out.

Sadly, the standard GP100 in the case at my local big box sporting goods store has a badly canted barrel. The Match Champion I checked out at a boutique shop was really nice with no issues I could detect. Overall fit and finish were better, with smoother surfaces where they were fitted. It looked like someone had gone over it a little more carefully. I'm hoping that's generally the case with MCs, although I've read of them having canted barrels, too.

[jeep45238]

Do you think these issues are isolated to the 640, or a general observation? Might snag a 60 Pro if this is rampant in the 640.

[OlongJohnson]

The specific issue of the cylinder/yoke not closing properly is so far observed only in that production batch of 640 Pros, AFAIK. Doesn't mean whatever failure in the production system let it out the door couldn't let it out the door on other SKUs. Anything else I mentioned is something to check for on any S&W (or Ruger) revolver, IMO.

Just to be clear, I'm not representing myself as a revolver expert. Just starting to dip my toe in the water compared to many here. But I am confident in my observations described and the wrongness of what was in my hands in each case.

[jeep45238]

Gotcha. I don't mind getting into things and knocking burrs off and smoothing things out (nature of me). Not saying it's acceptable, but I can live with a few burrs that I can fix - canted barrels and cylinder gaps are a bit more involved.

[LSP972]

Finally got around to shooting mine. It is good; no defects, good timing, but the trigger is pretty hard... smooth, but hard. Those sights are amazing... simply NOT something an old J frame guy is accustomed to on one.

I shot WW 148gr factory wadcutters (X38SMRP) and 158gr RNL Mag Tech (38A), at 7 and 25 yards. Both hit POA at 7 yards; the 158 hit POA at 25, the wadcutters hit a bit low. But groups were excellent at both distances.

This is an interesting little revolver. Sadly, its just heavier than I anticipated, and I have returned to my old pre-95 640 for practice. If anyone is interested in this like-new (less than 100 rounds through it) 640 Pro, send me a PM.

.

[jslaughter]

Finally got around to shooting mine. It is good; no defects, good timing, but the trigger is pretty hard... smooth, but hard. Those sights are amazing... simply NOT something an old J frame guy is accustomed to on one.

I shot WW 148gr factory wadcutters (X38SMRP) and 158gr RNL Mag Tech (38A), at 7 and 25 yards. Both hit POA at 7 yards; the 158 hit POA at 25, the wadcutters hit a bit low. But groups were excellent at both distances.

This is an interesting little revolver. Sadly, its just heavier than I anticipated, and I have returned to my old pre-95 640 for practice. If anyone is interested in this like-new (less than 100 rounds through it) 640 Pro, send me a PM.

.

PM SENT.

I'm really interested in this gun. I would like to see target pictures of groups. Are the groups you guys are shooting off hand or bench rested?

[LtDave]

Unfortunately, I didn't take pictures of my groups, but here are some results with group size and POI info off the bench at 15 yards:
38 loads
Fiocchi 158 FMJ RN 1.0" -2.75", 1.5" R
Federal 148 WC 1.25" -2.75", 2" R
Winchester 148 WC 1.5", -2.75"
Remington 148 WC 2.25", -4"
RWS 158 FMJ FP 2.5" -1.5", 1" R
Winchester 130 Ranger Bonded JHP 2.75", -4"
Remington 158 LSWCHP 2.5", -5"
357 Loads
Speer 135 GD Short barrel #23917 3.25", -3.25", 3" L
Handload with 180 Sierra FMJ FP 4.4 gr 700x 2.25", -1" (Closest to the sights of all loads tested)

[jslaughter]

"Speer 135 GD Short barrel #23917 3.25", -3.25", 3" L"

This is my carry load in my 638. Interesting!

[Dagga Boy]

"Speer 135 GD Short barrel #23917 3.25", -3.25", 3" L"

This is my carry load in my 638. Interesting!

Also my carry load in just about every snub...except the 640 Pro for this very reason.

I so wish Novak would do an all black replacement rear sight that corrected the POi for .38 performance loads.

[LSP972]

PM SENT.



Answered.

.

[LtDave]

Also my carry load in just about every snub...except the 640 Pro for this very reason.

I so wish Novak would do an all black replacement rear sight that corrected the POi for .38 performance loads.

Me too. Make it high so you can file it to get the zero you want.

[LtDave]

Also my carry load in just about every snub...except the 640 Pro for this very reason.

I so wish Novak would do an all black replacement rear sight that corrected the POi for .38 performance loads.


That's the .357 Short Barrel load, not the .38. Just sayin...

[Dagga Boy]

That's the .357 Short Barrel load, not the .38. Just sayin...

Okay, cause it hits a bit lower in .38. I have the .357 Short Barrel load that I can use in stuff like my 3.5" model 27.

[jslaughter]

Also my carry load in just about every snub...except the 640 Pro for this very reason.

I so wish Novak would do an all black replacement rear sight that corrected the POi for .38 performance loads.

Dagga Boy, what is you carry load in the 640?

[Dagga Boy]

Dagga Boy, what is you carry load in the 640?

158 gr lswchp +P

[newyork]

Is the all steel construction too heavy for pocket carry? Is the gun too big for that anyway?

[Crusader8207]

Is the all steel construction too heavy for pocket carry? Is the gun too big for that anyway?

I found the 640 Pro to be too heavy for me for pocket carry. The 340 on the other hand is the perfect pocket gun for me.

[deputyG23]

With standard cut jeans and khakis, I can manage a older .38 M60 pretty well in a pocket if I wear a sturdy belt. If it had bigger sights, I probably would carry it more than my newer 442 that has sights that I can almost see. A 640 would be a wee bit heavier, though.

[blues]

With standard cut jeans and khakis, I can manage a older .38 M60 pretty well in a pocket if I wear a sturdy belt. If it had bigger sights, I probably would carry it more than my newer 442 that has sights that I can almost see. A 640 would be a wee bit heavier, though.

A half pound heavier. That's a lot when comparing it to the 642 / 442 which come in under 15 ounces.

[Willard]

Resurrecting a 6 month old thread to see if anyone has any new information...apparently some of these were coming from the factory pretty rough and couldn't be bought sight unseen (hate to do that with a revolver), but I've seen none in the wild in my area. If I bought one, it would likely have to be over internet. While you could still refuse receipt, would like to avoid that scenario, so asking the hive.

[OlongJohnson]

I was the guy who sent mine back to KYGunCo when they had the sale. They looked at two more in their inventory, and they both had the same issues. Shortly after, their sale was over. I suspect it was just a bad batch. On the other hand, LSP972 bought one from KYGunCo on the same sale, and was quite satisfied with his.

The problem with buying a new revolver over the internet is that both S&W and Ruger have obvious QC lapses across the board on their revolvers. My GP had to be sent back to Ruger for refitting before I ever loaded live ammo in the cylinder. I'm still not done fixing their manufacturing defects, and there is an obvious issue that is ultimately only cosmetic, so the fix will be to live with it. It is, however, a really sweet piece as it sits. I've seen a badly canted barrel on a GP in the case at the local big box store. Non-concentric crowns have come and gone in S&W production back to the beginning of two-piece barrels, from what I've seen. Both brands are liable to deliver ratchets that are basically rosebuds of burrs. The last S&W I handled in a LGS, I went over my mental catalog of trouble spots: "That's pretty nice, hey they figured that out...WTH is that?" If it isn't one thing, it's another. You don't even have to do the detailed timing and fitup checks to find problems on most of them. I don't claim to be a revolver expert by any means, I'm just good at playing with blocks and looking at things. The author of the MIM parts section in the latest edition of the Kuhnhausen book said something along the lines of every S&W he'd inspected from the MIM era had some defect that would be obvious to any competent armorer-level inspector and should never have left the factory. I don't question it, given what I've seen as basically a revolver noob.

It used to be that there were excellent revolversmiths around the country who were also authorized S&W warranty stations. Theoretically, one of them might have been able to correct issues and have S&W pay him for the work. But S&W seems to be bringing all their warranty service in house, from what I've read. The quality of work done at S&W itself is variable, and there seems to be evidence that it's not what it once was. Some can still be good, but the average is slipping.

Ruger has a reputation for providing excellent service, but occasionally you hear of someone not being happy with the results even after a Ruger had been returned to the factory multiple times.

There are cases of both companies returning revolvers to customers having done no work, simply stating that they are in spec, when the guns are clearly not up to the standard of others of the same model.

The wise approach is to either have a revolver inspected by someone you consider reliable before it's shipped, plan on some back and forth shipping, buy from a local shop that lets you pick the best one, or just budget to send it to a competent smith to have any needed corrections done. You could also just do the transfer, and call S&W immediately to get a shipping label and have them fix it.

[Bigghoss]

Would be nice if I could buy a 642 setup like a 640 pro. Better yet, a 340 or 342.

[Willard]

Would be nice if I could buy a 642 setup like a 640 pro. Better yet, a 340 or 342.


Something like this: https://www.smith-wesson.com/firearms/model-642-0?

[Bigghoss]

Something like this: https://www.smith-wesson.com/firearms/model-642-0?

Nope. I want the dovetailed sights, not the typical crappy snubby sights.

[UNK]

Nope. I want the dovetailed sights, not the typical crappy snubby sights.

Take a look at M&P 340 Big Dot widened rear channel no lock. It's the best they have going right now if seeing sights are an issue. Scandium frame and Steel cylinder. I saw one earlier this week for just under 600 but they are gone now.

[Bigghoss]

I don't have trouble seeing the sights. I just want better ones. Smith and Ruger both have models with good dovetailed sights and it's time that became standard rather than a special model. Or at least way more common. I realize that that will add significant cost to the guns so I can see the current J-frames with mediocre sights carrying on for the value the represent.

[Isaac]

I think I've read somewhere too, that the scandium frame's benefit vs the aluminum is that the pivot pin in the frame is stronger or more secure in the frame.

[Willard]

I think I've read somewhere too, that the scandium frame's benefit vs the aluminum is that the pivot pin in the frame is stronger or more secure in the frame.

Very intriguing. I'd like to see something on that. Supports some of the posts I've seen on 442/642 breakage and appearance of frame on the scandiums vs aluminum (can see the pins vs can't), but have seen/read nothing substantive.

I did recently pick up a Pro and hope to get it to the range this week. So far, it seems pretty well executed. With some SLIP2000 and dry firing with snap caps, the action has improved dramatically. Overall, the gun seems well put together. No issue with canted barrel or other problems I've read about. Initially, it was rough to close on some cylinders. However, the gun seems to have worked that out of its system. Would prefer it wasn't MIM and had a pinned barrel, but I have older S&W J's with much worse timing/lock up, so I won't fault it until I have an actual functional reason. Hopefully, I won't. Will see how it shoots.

[OlongJohnson]

Seeing the pins vs not isn’t a scandium difference. Pins you see are stainless steel. Pins you don’t see are aluminum. Don’t know whether the aluminum pins are scandium alloy, but in any case, they are used consistently on guns that sell for hundreds less than the ones with stainless pins.

[Willard]

Seeing the pins vs not isn’t a scandium difference. Pins you see are stainless steel. Pins you don’t see are aluminum. Don’t know whether the aluminum pins are scandium alloy, but in any case, they are used consistently on guns that sell for hundreds less than the ones with stainless pins.

I think we are in agreement. Pins are visibly different. I'm not saying (despite how may my post may have appeared) that scandium is the difference in pin materials. I'm saying scandium framed guns have pins you can see (regardless of pin material). Aluminum frames have pins you cannot (regardless of pin material). Perhaps, that is in line with what you typed and the aluminum framed guns have aluminum pins, while the scandium framed guns have pins of some other material (steel, etc). Regardless, there is a difference in the pins of the scandium and aluminum framed guns. I know not what it is.

[willie]

Scandium frames are aluminum with .1% to .5% scandium alloyed with aluminum. The decimal of .1% and .5% is .001 and .005 My point is that the amount of scandium is minute. Although this alloy is stronger than aluminum without the trace amount of scandium, I can't help but think that maybe the whole idea is a gimmick used by S&W. I say this because recent advances in "regular old metallurgy" have produced gun metal that will more than suffice for stresses imposed by ammo loaded to SAAMI specs. Let me add that S&W most likely knows what it's doing, and I have to admit that the scandium alloy is an extra measure of strength in a lightweight .44 Mag revolver.

[SD]

KICK Updates please from owners, any unforeseen issues arising after real life use? I'm currently in the process of purchasing a new one. Declined the first one for reasons discussed in the this thread. Two more have arrived at the store but the manager left me a message that essentially they are the same as the first one. I really want to like this revolver but wonder if the Kimber may be a better direction, especially with it now being offered in 3".

[L-2]

Responding to Post 436, I bought my 640 Pro early 2/2016 (made in 1/2016).
I've got 4500 rounds, mainly .38 Special, through it and I've got zero problems with it.

Regarding the Kimber K6S, I've also contemplated getting one (&/or the new Colt Cobra).
I'd want the black-colored versions of those two which places these at $1100-$1200+ out-the-door-of-a-gunstore.
This is ~$200-$300 more than a 640 Pro, for unproven-to-me, revolvers.

I've just not yet heard of any owners claiming round-counts in the thousands, yet, and any warranty issues for these Kimber and Colt revolvers.
I just don't know right now how good or bad the Kimber and Colt will hold up over time.

Maybe by the end of the year I'll take a chance on one or the other if I don't find something else I'd rather buy instead (already thinking of a Glock 26 Gen5).

[HCM]

I bought my 640 Pro used from another PF member.I have been 100% happy with it.

[Jared]

Seems like I recall some issues with the sights causing the guns to shoot low being mentioned?

Any of you guys having that problem? There's one at a LGS that I've resisted thus far because I was worried about that, but if they shoot to the sights with 158 gr ammo and wadcutters......I'm in trouble

[willie]

With respect to Kimber and Colt, they don't know either how their revolvers will hold up over time. An unqualified guess is that timing will go first and then cylinder and/or yoke endshake will develop. S&W has the right formula.
.

[SD]

Thank you all for the info, it is greatly appreciated. Picked it up on Monday. I like it. Fired 50 rnds. each 158gr. Monday Remington G/W box LB and Freedom 158gr. reloads MC. ( Forgot how smokey Rem G/W stuff can be indoors). Today was 50 rnds. each of Remington 125+P HTP and Speer 125+P GD. My drill runs between 7 & 25 yards and is somewhat a mixed style of shooting. Friday hopefully run some Underwood rnds.
2865428655

[O4L]

That is EXACTLY what I was talking about. This moron apparently doesn't know (probably because he and his pals don't shoot much) that removing the flag leaves 2mm of "dead space" between the remaining mechanism and the hammer. And enough shooting will dislodge the remaining mechanism and allow it to fall against the hammer… locking up the gun just as effectively as if the lock was intact and self-initiated.

.I know it's been a long time since this was posted but from what I have seen the plug is held in place by the same remaining mechanism.

Does it stay in place because it eliminates the dead space mentioned here, keeping it from potentially falling into the gun?

Thanks to everyone for a great thread! I just got used 640 with the IL that was too good a deal to pass up.

[MDFA]

Ok now you guys have made me want a J Frame Again.... Now do I trade the Glock 43 for one or not.... I hate you guys:D

[Duelist]

Ok now you guys have made me want a J Frame Again.... Now do I trade the Glock 43 for one or not.... I hate you guys:D

I would not do that trade, any more than I would trade my J frame for a 43 or 42. I would save up and buy the J frame, whichever one you decide is the one for you.

[OlongJohnson]

Get a 640-1 and an M&P 340.

[MDFA]

Ok now you guys have made me want a J Frame Again.... Now do I trade the Glock 43 for one or not.... I hate you guys:D

Ok I'm not going to trade the Glock 43...

But I need to decide between the 442/642 series and the 38/638 series. I've owned several 442/642 but never the 38/638. I know the differences in both designs.
Decisions Decisions.... Don't say get both...

[MDFA]

Ok I'm not going to trade the Glock 43...

But I need to decide between the 442/642 series and the 38/638 series. I've owned several 442/642 but never the 38/638. I know the differences in both designs.
Decisions Decisions.... Don't say get both...

Problem Solved... My new 642, the LGS didn't have a no lock, so I'll be on Brownells in a few minutes.
The Target is at 5,7, and 15 yards on the stores indoor range, and is a mix of various 125 and 158 grain loads.
29063

Yeah I know it's not a 640 Pro.

[SD]

Got my round count up to 400. Decided it's a keeper but the trigger has got to be the absolute worst ever. Taking that into consideration I just scheduled a spa treatment for it with Marc @ Gemini Customs at the end of the month.

[Baldanders]

I like mine a bunch, BUT
1) the factory trigger was bad, even by current S&W standards, super gritty, great after gunsmith tuning

2) The rear sight came loose after about 500 rounds, unfortunately this was during my CCH qualifier shoot, passed but the instuctor thought I had a severe problem with bearing to the right

3) It's had issues with the ejector rod assembly coming loose, hence the "HELP" thread I just posted.....

I still love it, I can't shoot other small guns nearly as well, but I got to admit, sometimes I think I should have bought 2 cheaper ued .38 j-frames instead at the same price.

Or maybe even a LCR or two....or an sp-101.

[Flashman]

My biggest problem with snubbies are the sights. Both Ruger and S&W rear sight channels are far too narrow. As my eyes age, it has become more difficult to see the front sight on the 642 even with the front sight painted orange. It was not possible to see light between the front sight and rear sight notches. It was finally sold.

In fact, the best fixed factory sights I have ever seen are on the dreaded Charter Arms Undercover which has a very wide rear sight channel. Too bad S&W and Ruger haven't figured that out.

That said, someone indicated the 340 M&P has a widened rear sight channel to accommodate the big XS front sight. Is this correct? It appears the rear Novak sight on the 640 M&P is still fairly narrow?

[OlongJohnson]

That said, someone indicated the 340 M&P has a widened rear sight channel to accommodate the big XS front sight. Is this correct?

Yes.

http://www.gunblast.com/SW-340MP.htm

https://www.google.com/search?q=m%26p+340+sight+picture&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiG_snyo53dAhWp5oMKHSPADacQsAR6BAgFEAE&biw=1920&bih=939

[Baldanders]

It appears the rear Novak sight on the 640 M&P is still fairly narrow?

My eyes are crap and it works fine for me, far better than any other Smith snubbie.

[Mark D]

I examined a 640 Pro last week. It has an awesome sight picture for a J frame.

If I hadn't purchased up a nice used Model 60 recently, I'd seriously consider buying the 640 Pro.

[Flashman]

I meant 640 Pro not 640 M&P.

[Zeke38]

Just dawned on me I've never shown a pic of my 640 Pro:

https://i.imgur.com/7ilsJdjh.jpg

[11B10]

Just dawned on me I've never shown a pic of my 640 Pro:

https://i.imgur.com/7ilsJdjh.jpg



Zeke, I want to thank you for posting that picture - very nice firearm.

[LtDave]

Here's a picture of mine. If you look carefully, you can see the piece of aluminum from a soda can under the rear sight to get it to stay put. :-(
Shoots ok, if a little low. Without question, the best J frame sights to date IMHO. Best group to date is 1" at 15 yards with Fiocchi 158 FMJ RN (38G). Federal Gold Medal 148 WC did 1.25", both shot about 2.75" low.

30547

[WobblyPossum]

Here's a picture of mine. If you look carefully, you can see the piece of aluminum from a soda can under the rear sight to get it to stay put. :-(
Don’t feel bad. I had to do the same thing to keep the rear sight in place on my G26.

[NPV]

Here's a picture of mine. If you look carefully, you can see the piece of aluminum from a soda can under the rear sight to get it to stay put. :-(
Shoots ok, if a little low. Without question, the best J frame sights to date IMHO. Best group to date is 1" at 15 yards with Fiocchi 158 FMJ RN (38G). Federal Gold Medal 148 WC did 1.25", both shot about 2.75" low.

30547

I have one set to return to my FFL Monday for the same issue. Ended up being a bad dovetail so I S&W replaced the frame.

[Eagle1*]

First time posting to this thread. I just got my first 640 Pro a few days ago and here she is with my 642. Will post up some more pics when the altamont grips arrive for both in a few days. So far I like the extra weight of the pro.. More to come...

[MDFA]

Ok I realize the last post was over 2 years ago, but I should have my new 640 Pro this Wednesday. Where did you guys find all the Spegel Grips without waiting 3 years?

[Lester Polfus]

Ok I realize the last post was over 2 years ago, but I should have my new 640 Pro this Wednesday. Where did you guys find all the Spegel Grips without waiting 3 years?

I can't advise on the grips, but I'd love to know where you found a new 640 Pro for sale.

[MDFA]

I can't advise on the grips, but I'd love to know where you found a new 640 Pro for sale.

Gun Broker $949 for buy now with one dealer, they have 3 in stock. 1 for Bid which is currently 725. I got mine for 899 buy now with another dealer through GB. Good Luck.

[Lester Polfus]

Gun Broker $949 for buy now with one dealer, they have 3 in stock. 1 for Bid which is currently 725. I got mine for 899 buy now with another dealer through GB. Good Luck.

Well hush my mouth. I'd given up on finding one on Gunbroker. Thanks.

[MDFA]

Well hush my mouth. I'd given up on finding one on Gunbroker. Thanks.

You're welcome. Good Luck.

[MDFA]

Ok I realize the last post was over 2 years ago, but I should have my new 640 Pro this Wednesday. Where did you guys find all the Spegel Grips without waiting 3 years?

Picked it up today. Have not shot it yet, just gave a quick clean and lube and checked everything over. No issues that I could see. Gave it some new grips. Hogue Exotic boot Grips in Pau Ferro. I relieved the left side for speedloaders. I really like the feel and the trigger in dry fire. I don't think I'll use the moonclips.

68332

[Half Moon]

Well hush my mouth. I'd given up on finding one on Gunbroker. Thanks.

Not sure if you're dead set on new but came across this today searching for something else:

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/894611523

A couple yellow flags on the auction: seller with not a lot of feedback; money order or check only; not a lot of photos. Still there doesn't look to be any significant turn line, a decent-ish buy now, and pre-lock.

[Lester Polfus]

Not sure if you're dead set on new but came across this today searching for something else:

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/894611523

A couple yellow flags on the auction: seller with not a lot of feedback; money order or check only; not a lot of photos. Still there doesn't look to be any significant turn line, a decent-ish buy now, and pre-lock.

Hmmm....

I'll have to have a think about that one. We're picking up a new travel trailer at the end of the month, then going truck shopping after that, so this may not fit into the picture at the moment, but it is worth thinking about.

[JWH]

FYI: Norma 158 gr FMJFP .38sp shoots to a drive the dot hold at 10 yds in my example.

[jeep45238]

Sort of funny how what goes around, comes around.

I picked up my 640 Pro today, making me the 3rd P-F'r to have it, along with some grips, and more grips coming in the mail.

When this project first started off, there was an idea of replicating this, but doing it with the aluminum frames. Now Lipsey's is doing it.

Guess there's something to be said about a solid idea, well executed - on both fronts.

https://i.ibb.co/JRZqLSM/IMG-2861.jpg (https://ibb.co/3yKvXPL)

[Duelist]

Sort of funny how what goes around, comes around.

I picked up my 640 Pro today, making me the 3rd P-F'r to have it, along with some grips, and more grips coming in the mail.

When this project first started off, there was an idea of replicating this, but doing it with the aluminum frames. Now Lipsey's is doing it.

Guess there's something to be said about a solid idea, well executed - on both fronts.

https://i.ibb.co/JRZqLSM/IMG-2861.jpg (https://ibb.co/3yKvXPL)

That’s pretty cool. “You haven’t missed you chance, you just missed your turn.”