Wheelgun Challenge IV

[Bruce Cartwright]

Folks:

After seeing a bunch of good discussion concerning revolver reloading techniques in the Wheelgun Challenge III thread, I figured I'd post up Wheelgun Challenge IV which discusses that topic.

This is the fourth installment of this series. I had carried a Ruger GP 100 Match Champion as my main defensive handgun since I was challenged to do so by a good friend in mid-October 2017. It has been a hoot.

In the third installment, I discussed my use of Safariland Comp III speed loaders. In this installment, I am going to talk about my technique for speed loading a revolver and how it has changed.

There are a number of ways to reload a revolver. The technique I used was developed by Massad Ayoob when he was teaching with the Lethal Force Institute (and it still a pretty good technique). In the LFI technique, after the last shot is fired, the cylinder is opened and the muzzle elevated. At this point the left hand (Assuming a right-handed shooter) runs palm down along the barrel and strikes the ejector rod smartly straight down. The revolver is then transferred to the left hand (I put the ejector rod between the pointer finger and middle finger as originally demonstrated by Ayoob) and then drop the muzzle toward the ground. The right hand now reaches for a speed loader and guides it into the cylinder. The right hand releases the speed loader and resumes the master grip on the gun. The left hand closes the cylinder and resumes a two-hand hold. The strengths of this technique are that it is pretty positive and the cupped left hand catches any rounds that miss the charge holes. It is a good technique, but slower than I wanted. By using your strong hand to manipulate the speed loader, you gain a bit better control over the insertion of the speed loader, but at a cost of adding an additional step in the process. Mr. Ayoob felt, as I understand it, that the added certainty gained from using your more dexterous hand outweighed any decrease in speed. It is a valid viewpoint.

One Caveat about using any technique that utilizes your non-dominate hand to eject empty rounds is that sometimes you can tie up a revolver if you over emphatically strike the ejector rod. The cylinder can be driven past the cylinder retaining nub on some revolvers.

After kicking this around a bit with my son and watching him speed load his revolver, I have come to adopt his technique. My son learned this technique from the late L.W. “Bill” Roberts of western Pennsylvania. Essentially, (again assuming a right-handed shooter), the cylinder is released and as the muzzle is elevated, the shooter places his trigger finger through the cylinder window and ideally puts it in contact with the cylinder thus preventing its rotation. The muzzle is elevated straight up, and the left hand palm strikes the ejector rod straight down (just as was done in the LFI method). Why elevate the muzzle straight up? By doing this, it is easier for the empty cases to clear the cylinder and any unburnt powder tends to stay in the cases during ejection. Unburnt powder can easily become lodged under the extractor star and tie up a revolver in short order. The shooter then uses his left hand to retrieve his speed loader and insert it into the cylinder. The shooter then closes the cylinder and gets back into the fight. I modify this by keeping, my revolver at eye level and loading the cylinder with the muzzle slightly depressed but facing my threat. The Safariland Comp III loaders use a spring to drive rounds into a revolver’s charge holes. The spring driven Comp IIIs really work well in this position. My son was raised shooting 1911s and saw no reason he couldn’t reload a revolver by putting his speed loader in his left hand much as he does with a 1911 magazine. My son beat me repeatedly on any timed reloading drill using this technique. I decided to give it a try and have since adopted it.

Upsides: First, it keeps the gun up between you and your threat. This increases your situational awareness. SA helps you win fights. Looking at the revolver near your belt buckle reduces your SA. Don’t believe me? Go to any martial arts dojo and observe students sparring. Do any of them look at their obi (belt)? Not if they want to prevail. I can tell you from watching/teaching numerous folks, that when something goes “wrong” with their handgun, they tend to drop the weapon toward their belt and their eyes become “glued” to the gun. Second, my speed is increased over my time with the LFI technique. Third, the speed loaders seem to clear the gun better than with the right-hand techniques.

This approach is thinking out of the box, but I have found it to work well. Thanks to the late Bill Roberts, the patriarch of combat shooters in western Pennsylvania. As Bill says, “The wheel came first”!

[BN]

I used to shoot USPSA with Bill and his boys. Billy and Chris?? That was at Crowfoot and maybe a couple of other places.

[Lost River]

Excellent stuff there Bruce!

[Jim Watson]

I still have a red tender spot on my left palm from slapping the ejector rod on Sunday.
If a full time revolver shooter, I'd take a Ruger or one of the current crop of Smiths with a yoke latch and put a generous flat knob on the rod. Have to cut clearance in the shroud which might not be stylish.

[SCCY Marshal]

...Mr. Ayoob felt, as I understand it, that the added certainty gained from using your more dexterous hand outweighed any decrease in speed. It is a valid viewpoint...

...Why elevate the muzzle straight up? By doing this, it is easier for the empty cases to clear the cylinder and any unburnt powder tends to stay in the cases during ejection. ...

Thanks for the perspective about added certainty. It helps me explain to myself my own bias. I prefer HKS to Safariland Comp II as a rule because the design includes a failsafe: manual release. Can't fully insert for whatever reason? Twist the knob and work with what lands in the charge holes. Miss the cylinder and have a couple cartridges in charge holes while the loader/cylinder alignment looks like a venn diagram? If no time to correct, twist the knob and run with the partial load. Mechanism gritted up? Easier to twist the knob more forcefully than fight the center pin release sometimes.

To the point my carry Comp II loaders have never been used at the range since vetting them. And they periodically get dumped to blow out any dust or grime before refilling. The range units are crudely sprayed red to mark as training loaders. I never felt the need to segregate HKS loaders.

It also may be why I like the lefthand reload with a Speed Beez loader for a rimfire revolver. If the heel of my left hand isn't in position to shove into the piston, I can poke it with my right thumb as a Plan B rather than take the time to tweak my left hand.

And the lefthanded reload is easily converted to a Stressfire reload after ejection if deciding to access a right-side positioned reload. Which I sometimes do via speed strip or cartridge loops on a field rig. And I like having that right side reload when conveniently able in case I find myself reloading from cover in a position that doesn't play nicely with lefthand access.

And thanks for the note about powder residue bettter staying in cases with vertical ejection. A buddy has more issues with gunk under his stars than I do. That may be a culprit as he isn't as mindful of getting vertical as me. My thought process for verticality ended at reducing chances of a recalcitrant case not fully popping free and the reduced likelihood of brass-under-star.

This is a cool series with plenty of bits of esoteric knowledge. Thanks for joining and sharing! It's those small bits of perspective that add up to a lot but aren't though of enough to mention or are easily glossed over in many other formats.

[03RN]

I hope this whole series is stickied.

Ive tried hard to use my left hand to eject/reload, i just couldn't do it. Even after a couple weeks of slow practice as soon as I speed up I revert to old habits.

[BillSWPA]

I hope this whole series is stickied.

Ive tried hard to use my left hand to eject/reload, i just couldn't do it. Even after a couple weeks of slow practice as soon as I speed up I revert to old habits.

Perhaps these threads should be moved to a sticky subforum within the revolver section?

[Bruce Cartwright]

I used to shoot USPSA with Bill and his boys. Billy and Chris?? That was at Crowfoot and maybe a couple of other places.

Bill:

Yes. I had the pleasure of meeting Bill's sons some years ago. Decent gentlemen all. Here is a link to an obituary for Bill that I added to my website: "https://saconsco.com/gallery/".
Crowfoot? I haven't heard that name in probably 30 years. I shot my first IPSC match there with a steel frame Commander and handloaded 200 grain lead semiwadcutters in a Sparks Summer Special made by Milt himself. Thanks for the trip down memory lane. Life is good.

Bruce

[Bruce Cartwright]

Excellent stuff there Bruce!

Lost River:

Thanks! Hope all is well.

Bruce

[Bruce Cartwright]

I still have a red tender spot on my left palm from slapping the ejector rod on Sunday.
If a full time revolver shooter, I'd take a Ruger or one of the current crop of Smiths with a yoke latch and put a generous flat knob on the rod. Have to cut clearance in the shroud which might not be stylish.

Jim Watson:

That's an interesting idea. I imagine it would look like some of the early S&W Hand Ejectors. The ejector rods on the Ruger Security/Service/Speed Six guns had a similar feature, now sadly gone on the GP 100 series.

Bruce

[Bruce Cartwright]

Thanks for the perspective about added certainty. It helps me explain to myself my own bias. I prefer HKS to Safariland Comp II as a rule because the design includes a failsafe: manual release. Can't fully insert for whatever reason? Twist the knob and work with what lands in the charge holes. Miss the cylinder and have a couple cartridges in charge holes while the loader/cylinder alignment looks like a venn diagram? If no time to correct, twist the knob and run with the partial load. Mechanism gritted up? Easier to twist the knob more forcefully than fight the center pin release sometimes.

To the point my carry Comp II loaders have never been used at the range since vetting them. And they periodically get dumped to blow out any dust or grime before refilling. The range units are crudely sprayed red to mark as training loaders. I never felt the need to segregate HKS loaders.

It also may be why I like the lefthand reload with a Speed Beez loader for a rimfire revolver. If the heel of my left hand isn't in position to shove into the piston, I can poke it with my right thumb as a Plan B rather than take the time to tweak my left hand.

And the lefthanded reload is easily converted to a Stressfire reload after ejection if deciding to access a right-side positioned reload. Which I sometimes do via speed strip or cartridge loops on a field rig. And I like having that right side reload when conveniently able in case I find myself reloading from cover in a position that doesn't play nicely with lefthand access.

And thanks for the note about powder residue bettter staying in cases with vertical ejection. A buddy has more issues with gunk under his stars than I do. That may be a culprit as he isn't as mindful of getting vertical as me. My thought process for verticality ended at reducing chances of a recalcitrant case not fully popping free and the reduced likelihood of brass-under-star.

This is a cool series with plenty of bits of esoteric knowledge. Thanks for joining and sharing! It's those small bits of perspective that add up to a lot but aren't though of enough to mention or are easily glossed over in many other formats.

SCCY Marshal:

Thanks for the kind words. Part of he reason I decided to start posting was to preserve some of this knowledge. Ken Hackathorn told me, and I wholeheartedly agree, that revolver shooting is a dying art. These online discussions are a way to preserve hard won lessons for future generations. Hopefully we will never experience a magazine ban again, but being able to run a wheelgun well is a skill worth knowing. I think Dagga Boy mentioned doing some work back east, possibly New York and carrying a pair of revolvers. While revolvers may not be state of the art gun fighting tools today, they are still useful and don't subject the user to the whims/interpretations of certain jurisdictions. I would probably do the same thing.

As to joining, thank you for having me. I am glad the series has been of benefit to you.

Bruce

[Bruce Cartwright]

I hope this whole series is stickied.

Ive tried hard to use my left hand to eject/reload, i just couldn't do it. Even after a couple weeks of slow practice as soon as I speed up I revert to old habits.

03RN:

You bring up a great point. When I teach, I set up a drill and tell my students that they need to complete the drill. What I leave up to them is "how" to complete the drill. While I think the reloading technique I described in this installment is really cool, I realize it may not work for everyone. That's cool. Figure out what works best for you and drive on.

For example, where I live, we have grizzly bears. Real grizzly bears. Most folks tell me a heavily loaded 45-70 lever gun is the hot ticket. I do okay with that kind of set up, but not nearly as well as I do with a Remington 870 loaded with Brenneke slugs. I have using the 870 platform or one very similar for 40+ years. I see no need to mess with 40+ years of ingrained experience.

Thanks for the kind words. Be safe,

Bruce

[Wise_A]

I'm still using strong-hand reloads. I have tried reloading from the left, but I'm significantly less-dexterous with that hand than my right. I also find that transferring the revolver to my left gives me better balance and control during the inversions, and switching the gun from hand to hand is relatively smooth. I twist the gun outboard and bring it down towards my belt line, and slide my left hand up to grasp and index the cylinder while my right releases the cylinder. I slap the ejector rod, and then move my right hand to my belt to retrieve the loader or moonclip--only about a foot or so. After loading, I switch back while closing the cylinder, and slide my left hand back around and bringing the gun up to full extension.

This only works because I never shoot the revolver from retention, because I never carry one. A left-reload would be significantly faster in that scenario. I'm also shooting N-frames almost exclusively these days--a 327 (moonclips), and a 629 (HKS twist-knobs, because I am cheap, and if I legit haven't dealt with the problem with the first 6 rounds of .44, then I have made exceptionally poor life choices). A J- or a K-frame would be a lot easier to left-load.

You also leave out the biggest advantage of loading a revolver from the left--belt space! ;)

[BN]

Bill:
a steel frame Commander and handloaded 200 grain lead semiwadcutters in a Sparks Summer Special made by Milt himself. Bruce

Loaded with 6.0 grains of 231. Or maybe Unique. ;)

Crowfoot was a long time ago.

[Rick R]

03RN:

I have using the 870 platform or one very similar for 40+ years. I see no need to mess with 40+ years of ingrained experience.

Bruce

This is why I reload a revolver with my right hand. Been doing it that way since the late 70’s, there’s a good chance I’ll show up at Valhalla with an open revolver locked in my left fist, right hand looking for a reload.

[Jim Watson]

I learned to shoot the revolver in PPC. The concept of holding the small piece in your dominant hand applied to wadcutters in a Comp I. I don't envision changing for the occasional revolver outing.

[SCCY Marshal]

...The concept of holding the small piece in your dominant hand applied to wadcutters in a Comp I...

I've traditionally used lead round nose, lead flat nose with decently rounded ogive, or ball for my reloads to avoid hang-ups and to avoid smashing the mouths of expensive expanding bullets. Except in my 2x2x2 where there is enough leather to protect my 158gr SWCHP. Were I using ammo with bullet profiles more likely to hang up, my technique would likely be different.

[Bruce Cartwright]

Loaded with 6.0 grains of 231. Or maybe Unique. ;)

Crowfoot was a long time ago.

Bill:

5.7 grains of WW 231 per Ross Seyfried!

Bruce

[SCCY Marshal]

Added another wheelgunner to the world, today. My father was the first person to run a Ruger GP100 through our state's police academy. The instructors and staties kept borrowing it to try out as the State Police were waiting on their order to arrive as a transition from their previous S&Ws. There was jealousy that he'd beat them to it. He'd started the academy as a green pistolero but several hundred 148 grain .38 wadcutters got him sufficiently up to speed. The gun was on his hip for several years before trading his chief several hundred dollars worth of ammo to keep it when the department adopted the Glock 17.

I was taught centerfire revolver shooting with that GP100. And now it is my son's. Father dropped it off, today. So I holstered my 4" 28-2 (only weighs 2 ounces more than the 4" GP100) and we all three went to the range. Three generations dumping 148 grain wadcutters, the last of my dad's old 125 grain Federal SJHP magnums, my old 158gr LFN over 15 grains H110 handloads I'd Fathers Dayed to him a while back, and 158 grain SJHP magnums. Ran my son twice through the L.A.P.D. retired officer qualification as an intro to the gun. First with wadcutters then with 125 grain magnums.

The qual. was fired on a HeadHuntered B-27 target. A 12" circle with 3" center aiming spot traced in the high center chest and more refined face added. He kept all in the silhouette with both loads and 7/10 of each in the 12" ring. From there, he ran Mozambique's with an index card for a headbox. Headshots gave him some bother. Turning two liters of colored water inside-out restored his confidence.

Seeing my kid with my father's old S&W branded duty holster and a historic magnum felt better than words can describe. There's just a timeless quality to a 4" fighting magnum. I'd ride the river with a GP or N-frame any day, my father did, and we are glad to see a youth instantly fall in love with same.

The guy popping rounds through his P365 even stopped, came over, and watched the fireworks for a bit. Running a cylinder through my Smith as offered, he turned it over in his hands for a minute before returning it. "That's a whole 'nother kind of gun. Kicks hard but feels right." Yup.

[deputyG23]

Added another wheelgunner to the world, today. My father was the first person to run a Ruger GP100 through our state's police academy. The instructors and staties kept borrowing it to try out as the State Police were waiting on their order to arrive as a transition from their previous S&Ws. There was jealousy that he'd beat them to it. He'd started the academy as a green pistolero but several hundred 148 grain .38 wadcutters got him sufficiently up to speed. The gun was on his hip for several years before trading his chief several hundred dollars worth of ammo to keep it when the department adopted the Glock 17.

I was taught centerfire revolver shooting with that GP100. And now it is my son's. Father dropped it off, today. So I holstered my 4" 28-2 (only weighs 2 ounces more than the 4" GP100) and we all three went to the range. Three generations dumping 148 grain wadcutters, the last of my dad's old 125 grain Federal SJHP magnums, my old 158gr LFN over 15 grains H110 handloads I'd Fathers Dayed to him a while back, and 158 grain SJHP magnums. Ran my son twice through the L.A.P.D. retired officer qualification as an intro to the gun. First with wadcutters then with 125 grain magnums.

The qual. was fired on a HeadHuntered B-27 target. A 12" circle with 3" center aiming spot traced in the high center chest and more refined face added. He kept all in the silhouette with both loads and 7/10 of each in the 12" ring. From there, he ran Mozambique's with an index card for a headbox. Headshots gave him some bother. Turning two liters of colored water inside-out restored his confidence.

Seeing my kid with my father's old S&W branded duty holster and a historic magnum felt better than words can describe. There's just a timeless quality to a 4" fighting magnum. I'd ride the river with a GP or N-frame any day, my father did, and we are glad to see a youth instantly fall in love with same.

The guy popping rounds through his P365 even stopped, came over, and watched the fireworks for a bit. Running a cylinder through my Smith as offered, he turned it over in his hands for a minute before returning it. "That's a whole 'nother kind of gun. Kicks hard but feels right." Yup.

There are few things as satisfying as watching your kids use firearms safely and responsibly.
Son with “Old Ugly” Lew Horton M29 taken during his college years and Daughter with my old issued G22 that is hers now...
She is like the Bride. Can’t convince either to have anything serious to do with revolvers...

[03RN]

Ride the river.

A phrase ive used before.

[Wayne Dobbs]

Bill:

5.7 grains of WW 231 per Ross Seyfried!

Bruce

I fired tons of that Seyfried load back in the day from 1911s. Worked great!