Latest and Greatest in non-LE Civilian Armor?

[rob_s]

I currently have a Mayflower low-profile carrier, along with a chest rig I can attach to it, with some soft armor and some plates in it (of which I don't actually recall the make or model at the moment). I purchased that carrier and developed that setup specifically because it does a lot in terms of allowing me to wear the armor without plates pretty easily concealed, with plates somewhat easily concealed, and with load-carriage on the outside when I want it.

I'm thinking of upgrading the whole thing because (a) I'm guessing there might be newer options, (b) I'm just curious and (c) the setup was always a little tight and now is a little tighter ;) (d) it's not the fastest thing to get on and I might think about having two separate setups, one with just the soft armor and one a combo plates/mags.

This is essentially what I have now, but mine is tan. (https://www.optactical.com/maloarca20ve.html)

This is what it looks like "jocked up", although I also have a three-mag solution without the BOK.

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[LittleLebowski]

Tagging in so that I can be the remora to Rob’s research shark :D

[ssb]

I'm interested as well. I go back and forth between soft armor and plates: I believe my most likely threat to be a handgun threat, but at the same time rifle plates also stop handgun rounds (albeit with less surface area covered). My ideal armor would be a quick-donning setup relatively free of external carriage for HD use and -- I suppose -- offer a concealed capability for LARPing.

[757_Magnum]

I had a PC setup on the back burner, but that got pushed up when the 'Rona came around. There's lots of new low profile carriers that you can run slick or build up. I was initially looking at the BFG Plate Minus as a low profile option, but ultimately went with the Crye JPC 2.0 with a MOLLE panel and Esstac KYWIs due to the amount of favorable reviews, availability, and adaptability. I did a mod to add the First Spear Tubes on the cummerbund for quicker donning and doffing, and added a Spiritus Systems SACK to carry odds and ends like batteries. Also check out the Ferro Concepts Slickster and Spritus Systems LV-119, though the latter is always out of stock.

Panic buying was already in full swing when I ordered my plates near the end of March. These were Hoplite Armor 26605 triple curve swimmer's cut level IV ceramic plates (https://www.hoplitearmor.com/collections/swimmer-plates-level-iv/products/two-swimmer-plates-triple-curve-level-iv-stand-alone-26605), which are rebranded LTC (from what I understand are among the leading manufacturers alongside Hesco and Velocity Systems). Even considering the current situation as well as the fact that the owner is running for governor in his state, communication was poor, with promises of them shipping out next week the few times I called. Thinking that my order was never coming, I ended up buying a set of Velocity Systems special threat plates (https://www.velsyst.com/products/special-threat-ceramic-plate) for a class at the end of April. These are triple curve and rated up to 7.62x51 ball, but are only .6 inches thick. The thinness of the special threat plates was noticeable, and I could conceal it fairly well in the slick JPC under a dark slightly oversized jacket. Just as I was about to cancel my order with Hoplite, I got a notification that the plates were out for delivery that day. They fit me a bit better due to the swimmer's cut, and allow me to punch out with a pistol without pinching my outer pecs.

I honestly don't see see myself using this except in something like a bad post-Katrina type situation, but would rather learn to use it now than wish I had if 2020 adds more to the current situation. I've got the special threat plates up for sale, but I'm half tempted to make a second slick low profile setup, and might look into reinforcing a beekeeper's suit in case the murder hornets make it to the East Coast.

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[Guerrero]

757_Magnum: where to buy the "nerd" morale patch? Because I is one.

[UNM1136]

Dammit, in two weeks I was planning on pulling the trigger on an Eagle Maritime Ciras to replace my crappy 5.11 plate carrier....

You guys are going to cost me money, aren't you?

pat

[rcbusmc24]

55911

So.... I have a gear problem... I have way more than I need and I still want more, however, I have various carriers set up to do different things. The top left is my JPC, it has Hesco L210s in it and is set up with BFG pouches except for the IFAK on the back, whose contents probably are going to be moved to the dangler on the front after a little vetting.I use this one the most for classes. It weighs roughly 15 lbs before I start adding ammo...

My Mayflower ,top right, accepts placards and is my " heavier" rig. It has older Ceredyne level 3 plates and soft backers in it. I have used it for classes in the past and still like it. It is about 10 lbs heavier than my JPC...This one accepts placards though so I can adjust to different setups based on weapon platform...

The Eagle carrier has ESAPIs in it and built in armor panels. It is the " truck/ bump in the night rig" due to ease of throwing on. Still heavy though....

The brown carrier is a older LBT 6094 low profile, it has a second set of L210s in it and honestly I use it more for work when I don't need full kit but need armor... Range control, vehicle and helo operations, stuff supporting the Raid packages and TRAP stuff at EOTG here in Lejuene.

The blue carrier is a point blank 3A concealment vest. I've had it for a while, figured to use it in a pistol shoothouse course up at Alliance, but so far have only ever used it as a aggressor for UTM scenarios...

I've been through a bunch of carriers due to work and hobby pursuits.... Of all of them these are the ones that are working the best for me...

[757_Magnum]

757_Magnum: where to buy the "nerd" morale patch? Because I is one.

Rebound Design Lab made it, but it was only a limited run. They still have some of their nerd glasses patch for sale. If you're on FB, join the Motivational Patch Black Market group and put out an ISO post.

[rob_s]

Is this the tactard equivalent of finding out your wedding dress still fits?

After 5 years of domestic bliss, I guess my dad-bidding has been lacking. It still fits!

Now to tear it apart and find out what’s in it!

In complete truth I did adjust the shoulder straps so that it hangs a little lower after taking this pic.

55972

[rcbusmc24]

Rob- If it still fits I would still use it, that is still a great vest...The full coverage vest has some appeal over a PC for civil and LE use. Paul Howe has a article on his CSAT site about appropriate armor selection for task and how many domestic teams going to PCs because the .mil has MAY not always be the best choice for their mission set. I'd get a set of placard clips if you don't already have them and keep using it.

[rob_s]

Rob- If it still fits I would still use it, that is still a great vest...The full coverage vest has some appeal over a PC for civil and LE use. Paul Howe has a article on his CSAT site about appropriate armor selection for task and how many domestic teams going to PCs because the .mil has MAY not always be the best choice for their mission set. I'd get a set of placard clips if you don't already have them and keep using it.

yeah I agree. I'm curious what actual armor I have inside the thing but I bet it's fine.

ETa:
anyone know if Mayflower went out of business? My old link to their website is dead.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

I was listening to a clip from Clint Smith. He said something at caught my mind. If you wear body armor, you had better hope that your opponent is a good shot as the average dude will shoot you in the femoral artery as they can't hit COM. OH!

[rob_s]

I was listening to a clip from Clint Smith. He said something at caught my mind. If you wear body armor, you had better hope that your opponent is a good shot as the average dude will shoot you in the femoral artery as they can't hit COM. OH!

in watching "Jack Ryan" the other night he was chasing sumdood across a rooftop. At first I thought "why doesn't he shoot him in the leg?" And then I thought "wait, how come they're always shooting people in the leg on TV? I'd shoot him in the ass! way easier target to hit, and probably moving around way less!"

and then there's Pat Rogers' story about "...so I shot him in the cock."

[Glenn E. Meyer]

In a FOF, I was the evil terrorist. The officer that was part of the team clearing me out, stuck a leg out from cover. I shot up his inner thigh. Ouch. Another ran across an open door way, and I did get a quick shot into his butt. You shoot at what you can see.

This is totally unrelated. I was reading about sailors who had to abandon ship. When explosions were going on in the water around them, they would cover their butts to avoid a high pressure enema.

[UNM1136]

in watching "Jack Ryan" the other night he was chasing sumdood across a rooftop. At first I thought "why doesn't he shoot him in the leg?" And then I thought "wait, how come they're always shooting people in the leg on TV? I'd shoot him in the ass! way easier target to hit, and probably moving around way less!"

and then there's Pat Rogers' story about "...so I shot him in the cock."

The Russians used to (still do?) advocate shots to the neck rather than the head. Less mobile target , just as wide,/almost as tall, likely to be VERY effective.

pat

[krax]

yeah I agree. I'm curious what actual armor I have inside the thing but I bet it's fine.

ETa:
anyone know if Mayflower went out of business? My old link to their website is dead.

Velocity acquired Mayflower and they sell all of the Mayflower-branded stuff. It's a good thing.

[OldRunner/CSAT Neighbor]

in watching "Jack Ryan" the other night he was chasing sumdood across a rooftop. At first I thought "why doesn't he shoot him in the leg?" And then I thought "wait, how come they're always shooting people in the leg on TV? I'd shoot him in the ass! way easier target to hit, and probably moving around way less!"

and then there's Pat Rogers' story about "...so I shot him in the cock."

Rob you, myself & some others here were fortunate enough to train, befriend & hear many of Pat's stories over the years, damn I miss mi amigo.

Glenn's re. to Clint reminds me of something Clint drilled into me starting back in '97 > " shoot the biggest piece of 'em as long as you see it or until a bigger piece appears, then work on it."

[rob_s]

Velocity acquired Mayflower and they sell all of the Mayflower-branded stuff. It's a good thing.

Interesting, thanks.

I don't see my specific carrier here, so maybe it's a snowflake now. May mean it's not worth delving into what plates I have and what fits and all that jazz. I seem to recall it being a process last go around
https://www.velsyst.com/collections/plate-carriers?sort_by=price-descending

[rob_s]

Glenn's re. to Clint reminds me of something Clint drilled into me starting back in '97 > " shoot the biggest piece of 'em as long as you see it or until a bigger piece appears, then work on it."

Bill Jeans was big on this IIRC. I probably even wrote an article where I mentioned it but maybe not. Maybe it was Awerbuck. big on pelvic shots, etc. Like you say, shoot what you can and always shoot for the most devastating part.

As it was originally mentioned in this thread, yeah some badguy could dick-shoot me, and I don't know if I'd go out and buy armor today if I didn't have it (what I have now I actually bought to take one of Pat's shoot house classes that I never got to) but since I have it I figure maximizing it's potential use and staging it where it's accessible are good ideas. I'd feel pretty stupid bleeding out on the floor knowing I had body armor in the other room.

I'll keep the armor with my Rattler in my Raptor. :p

[EPF]

Interesting, thanks.

I don't see my specific carrier here, so maybe it's a snowflake now. May mean it's not worth delving into what plates I have and what fits and all that jazz. I seem to recall it being a process last go around
https://www.velsyst.com/collections/plate-carriers?sort_by=price-descending

The LPAC is still available

https://www.velsyst.com/products/low-profile-armor-carrier

IMO nothing “better” of its type is available. The real tech advancements have been in the plates themselves as far as weight vs protection. The soft armor is the same. There are a lot of options for stand alone low profile carriers these days but for a civ role I really like the LPAC soft armor coverage plus the ability to add or delete plates depending on use. It’s a great carrier.

[TGS]

yeah I agree. I'm curious what actual armor I have inside the thing but I bet it's fine.


You'll want to check the armor. Mayflower/Velocity offers both Dyneema and Aramid. If its Aramid it's fine. If it's dyneema, replacing it would be prudent. We are currently on a 5 year replacement schedule. Note that aramid will do better with contact shots, though I'm not sure if the LPAC 06 Aramid inserts are tested/rated by the FBI or not.

You haven't really stated your needs, but the LPAC is excellent, highly versatile, and still a front-runner for what its made for. We've issued them for a while now. Given you're the anti-LARP extraordinaire, I'm not sure how well it matches your weekend activities and what you need/want.

Lacking other context, I would say the only thing you should do is, 1) check the armor and replace if its dyneema, 2) add a First Spear tubes system if you want to make it easier to don/doff.

[03RN]

SAPI plates in a bcs lo pro. Weighs 12lbs. I run 10-15 miles per week in it then its playtime.
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[Sero Sed Serio]

You'll want to check the armor. Mayflower/Velocity offers both Dyneema and Aramid. If its Aramid it's fine. If it's dyneema, replacing it would be prudent. We are currently on a 5 year replacement schedule. Note that aramid will do better with contact shots, though I'm not sure if the LPAC 06 Aramid inserts are tested/rated by the FBI or not.

How can I tell the difference? I have a '13 Mayflower LPAC with IIIA soft inserts, but besides VS-13A, they don't specify material. An online search only says "DuPont Kevlar."

I'm also very interested in the groupthink on this topic. I've been considering picking up a Mayflower APC, as my needs have definitely changed: mobility and ability to access concealment-type holsters is now a higher priority than side protection. I've been very happy with the Mayflower/Velocity offerings, but am open to suggestions if there's a better mousetrap.

[TGS]

How can I tell the difference? I have a '13 Mayflower LPAC with IIIA soft inserts, but besides VS-13A, they don't specify material. An online search only says "DuPont Kevlar."

I'm also very interested in the groupthink on this topic. I've been considering picking up a Mayflower APC, as my needs have definitely changed: mobility and ability to access concealment-type holsters is now a higher priority than side protection. I've been very happy with the Mayflower/Velocity offerings, but am open to suggestions if there's a better mousetrap.

Keep in mind that the LPAC actually has better side protection for vital organs than traditional armor cuts, due to the higher coverage. More traditional cuts like SPEAR/BALCS have more armor lower, but less armor as high as the LPAC. Whereas the LPAC is the Noveske N4 of barrels, SPEAR/BALCS is the US Gov't Profile of barrels, with all the mass in the wrong place. So, it's actually the best of both worlds.....better coverage and better agility.

I don't want to give you wrong info on the armor makeup, I would suggest contacting VS with your serial number.

[rob_s]

You'll want to check the armor. Mayflower/Velocity offers both Dyneema and Aramid. If its Aramid it's fine. If it's dyneema, replacing it would be prudent. We are currently on a 5 year replacement schedule. Note that aramid will do better with contact shots, though I'm not sure if the LPAC 06 Aramid inserts are tested/rated by the FBI or not.


How can I tell the difference? I have a '13 Mayflower LPAC with IIIA soft inserts, but besides VS-13A, they don't specify material. An online search only says "DuPont Kevlar."


I don't want to give you wrong info on the armor makeup, I would suggest contacting VS with your serial number.

I pulled out my soft armor and plates. This is what I found. Sero, look like the same tag on you soft insert?

Rear soft panel. 2008!
56012


Rear plate. Just for shits & giggles
56013


Rear plate weighs 6lbs 1.35 oz (scale keeps flashing back and forth between 1.3 and 1.4)
56014



You haven't really stated your needs, but the LPAC is excellent, highly versatile, and still a front-runner for what its made for. We've issued them for a while now. Given you're the anti-LARP extraordinaire, I'm not sure how well it matches your weekend activities and what you need/want.


Keep in mind that the LPAC actually has better side protection for vital organs than traditional armor cuts, due to the higher coverage. More traditional cuts like SPEAR/BALCS have more armor lower, but less armor as high as the LPAC. Whereas the LPAC is the Noveske N4 of barrels, SPEAR/BALCS is the US Gov't Profile of barrels, with all the mass in the wrong place. So, it's actually the best of both worlds.....better coverage and better agility.

I probably don’t really have a major current need. Can’t remember if I posted here or in the war belt thread but I originally “needed” armor because I wanted to take a Pat Rogers shoot house class, and this seemed the best option for me based largely on the things you mention. At the time, it didn’t seem to me to make much sense to buy an un-concealable armor system when there was a somewhat concealable option available. Having encountered enough pre- and post-hurricane weirdness in a lifetime in Florida, and given that I “needed” armor, being able to potentially use it for something other than training (however LARPy) seemed a good idea.

Now, frankly, I have it, I’m not going to sell it or trash it, so getting it up to spec and stashing it somewhere more accessible seems a not-bad idea.



Lacking other context, I would say the only thing you should do is, 1) check the armor and replace if its dyneema, 2) add a First Spear tubes system if you want to make it easier to don/doff.

Since you seem to have experience with the armor system, and I haven’t seen a Tubes since seeing them at SHOT the year they were introduced, how do they get installed on this carrier, and do they impact the concealability of the system and/or are they easily removed to restore the carrier to its concealable glory?

[rob_s]

Googling my model # got me this, so it looks like it’s Aramid. I also found some reference to “Twaron” which rings a bell...

56015

[TGS]

Since you seem to have experience with the armor system, and I haven’t seen a Tubes since seeing them at SHOT the year they were introduced, how do they get installed on this carrier, and do they impact the concealability of the system and/or are they easily removed to restore the carrier to its concealable glory?

Experience with the LPAC, but not the First Spear tubes. There's various tube cummerbunds available as well as female-end adapters for velcro closure cummerbunds......I imagine there's no reason you can't just buy one and swap the cummerbunds at will.

I was thinking about getting one this summer, but I haven't yet. No idea how it impacts concealability.

[Default.mp3]

How can I tell the difference? I have a '13 Mayflower LPAC with IIIA soft inserts, but besides VS-13A, they don't specify material. An online search only says "DuPont Kevlar."Kevlar is an aramid. Dyneema is a specific brand of UHMWPE spun fiber.

[Sero Sed Serio]

Keep in mind that the LPAC actually has better side protection for vital organs than traditional armor cuts, due to the higher coverage. More traditional cuts like SPEAR/BALCS have more armor lower, but less armor as high as the LPAC. Whereas the LPAC is the Noveske N4 of barrels, SPEAR/BALCS is the US Gov't Profile of barrels, with all the mass in the wrong place. So, it's actually the best of both worlds.....better coverage and better agility.

I don't want to give you wrong info on the armor makeup, I would suggest contacting VS with your serial number.

As someone who is constantly railing about the stupidity of Gov't profile barrels, I like the analogy!

While I agree that the LPAC offers great side protection, I'm looking for something that can be donned over everyday clothes without interfering with my draw stroke from a concealment or low-profile holster. I'm looking at carriers with just front and back protection, and no armor in the cumberbunds, like the APC: https://www.skdtac.com/Mayflower-Assault-Plate-Carrier-APC-p/mfr.512.htm, although I'm curious about other similar products. I think ESAPI or shooter's cut would best suit my needs?

Another major consideration is that I want something that will fit in a backpack along with a PDW; my current carrier with its side protection would be much harder to stuff in.

I'm planning on keeping my current carrier no matter what, so I'll have options. More than likely the LPAC will live at home and the APC will live in the PDW backpack.


I pulled out my soft armor and plates. This is what I found. Sero, look like the same tag on you soft insert?
Here's mine
56028


Kevlar is an aramid. Dyneema is a specific brand of UHMWPE spun fiber.

As near as I can tell, the VS-13 (mine) is kevlar, while the VS-33 is Dyneema. From what I can tell the VS-13 is out of production; I'm only seeing VS-33 stuff available.

[jbrimlow]

here's that Paul Howe article that was discussed earlier: https://www.combatshootingandtactics.com/post/law-enforcement-body-armor-heavy-or-light

[Erick Gelhaus]

In complete truth I did adjust the shoulder straps so that it hangs a little lower after taking this pic.

55972

Consider staying where you were adjustment wise. There is a diagram that's been bouncing around for several years - first at LF and then other places showing the vital anatomy and a plate. This is so the wearer knows how high it needs to be.


Rob- If it still fits I would still use it, that is still a great vest...The full coverage vest has some appeal over a PC for civil and LE use. Paul Howe has a article on his CSAT site about appropriate armor selection for task and how many domestic teams going to PCs because the .mil has MAY not always be the best choice for their mission set. I'd get a set of placard clips if you don't already have them and keep using it.

Agreed. I'm looking at VelSyst's LPAAC (or similar) rather than getting a post-retirement PC. I'm still a student and I still teach. The advantage of the LPAAC is that I get soft armor coverage - like my concealed soft armor - with the ability to add plates w/out the significantly increased bulk of a PC over the top of the soft armor.

I know there's significant concern about rifle rounds but even domestic L/E, the majority of the threat (70%+) is handguns and shotguns. Having more coverage front, back, and sides might not be a bad thing.

[jbrimlow]

Consider staying where you were adjustment wise. There is a diagram that's been bouncing around for several years - first at LF and then other places showing the vital anatomy and a plate. This is so the wearer knows how high it needs to be.

I got you:
56056
56057

[rob_s]

Thanks guys, I'll double-check adjustment accordingly. The old way it wouldn't even fit over my fat head!


Consider staying where you were adjustment wise. There is a diagram that's been bouncing around for several years - first at LF and then other places showing the vital anatomy and a plate. This is so the wearer knows how high it needs to be.


I got you:
56056
56057

[Erick Gelhaus]

I got you:


Thank you sir!

[Wake27]

Velocity told me that they're releasing updated versions of their special threat plate soon. Similar price (around $300 per plate), triple curve, about .6" think, and capable of stopping M80, M855, M193, and 7.62x39 mild steel core ball. The updated part is that they'll be lighter than their current offerings which are six pounds per plate.

[Mike C]

Velocity told me that they're releasing updated versions of their special threat plate soon. Similar price (around $300 per plate), triple curve, about .6" think, and capable of stopping M80, M855, M193, and 7.62x39 mild steel core ball. The updated part is that they'll be lighter than their current offerings which are six pounds per plate.

Was there any indication of release date or just a general, "soon?"

[ViniVidivici]

Since you seem to have experience with the armor system, and I haven’t seen a Tubes since seeing them at SHOT the year they were introduced, how do they get installed on this carrier, and do they impact the concealability of the system and/or are they easily removed to restore the carrier to its concealable glory?

One of these might do the trick:

https://www.beezcombatsystems.com/Cummerbunds_c49.htm

I put a skeletal one w/ tubes on my Banshee, it's now light years better.

The tubes don't add appreciable bulk, I don't think they'd degrade concealability.

ETA: yes, you could yank one right back off and put the original cumber back on, nothing permanent.

[rob_s]

One of these might do the trick:

https://www.beezcombatsystems.com/Cummerbunds_c49.htm

I put a skeletal one w/ tubes on my Banshee, it's now light years better.

The tubes don't add appreciable bulk, I don't think they'd degrade concealability.

ETA: yes, you could yank one right back off and put the original cumber back on, nothing permanent.

It’s not a cummerbund like a bulky military style carrier. The elastic is stitched in on the back like concealment armor.

[DocGKR]

Can someone enlighten me regarding the difference between "Latest and Greatest in non-LE Civilian Armor" and LE Armor?

[rob_s]

Can someone enlighten me regarding the difference between "Latest and Greatest in non-LE Civilian Armor" and LE Armor?

I have no idea. I’m a non-LE civilian so that’s what matters to me. If the choices in soft armor, plates, and carriers are the same for me and a cop that s great, but I was interested specifically in options that affect me, oddly enough.

[03RN]

I have no idea. I’m a non-LE civilian so that’s what matters to me. If the choices in soft armor, plates, and carriers are the same for me and a cop that s great, but I was interested specifically in options that affect me, oddly enough.

Do you think there is armor LE can have that you cant?

[Default.mp3]

Do you think there is armor LE can have that you cant?There's some stuff that's restricted by the manufacturer/reseller, like the VS ShadoWorks stuff. The real issue I guess is that the number of easily purchasable plates is smaller than the number of good plates. For example, the TenCate Cratus 8075SA seems pretty legit on paper as low viz plates, but where can I actually find them for sale as an individual set?

[rob_s]

Do you think there is armor LE can have that you cant?

That’s a good point, and yes. It’s part of what I had in mind when I titled the thread. My concerns were (a) what soft armor and plates can I buy on the commercial market and (b) what’s out there in terms of carriers that are more applicable to non-LE civilian use?

My thought on the latter is that I’m not trying to carry a radio, or badge, or cuffs, or taser... I see more than a few agencies have gone to a load carrying vest, some (all?) of which appear to also house the officer’s armor, and that’s not what I’m looking for.

I had no idea this would all need explaining. :p

[03RN]

There's some stuff that's restricted by the manufacturer/reseller, like the VS ShadoWorks stuff. The real issue I guess is that the number of easily purchasable plates is smaller than the number of good plates. For example, the TenCate Cratus 8075SA seems pretty legit on paper as low viz plates, but where can I actually find them for sale as an individual set?

I actually never knew that some manufacturers restricted sales. I wonder if that so they are available for leo sales or because of a philosophical position.

[rob_s]

I actually never knew that some manufacturers restricted sales. I wonder if that so they are available for leo sales or because of a philosophical position.

https://www.velsyst.com/products/special-threat-ceramic-plate


Notice: All armor purchases must be accompanied by copies of credentials or by a Purchase Order on agency/command letterhead. Your order will not be shipped until we receive these. Please contact us with any questions. 703-707-6280, info@velsyst.com

THIS PRODUCT IS ONLY AVAILABLE TO BE SOLD DIRECTLY TO MILITARY, GOVERNMENT AND LAW ENFORCEMENT CUSTOMERS. PLEASE CONTACT US FOR PRICING, IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS OR WOULD LIKE TO PLACE AN ORDER.

[DocGKR]

As noted previously, the Tencate 6400/AT Armor Stop-BZ/Velocity PBZ is a nice plate with all the advantages and disadvantages of a plate containing ceramics.

If in the market for new armor, I'd take a close look at AMI's products, as they are a reputable vendor who sells to vetted civilians: https://www.armoredmobility.com

[03RN]

https://www.velsyst.com/products/special-threat-ceramic-plate

I saw that before I posted. I knew some places like skd needed a carry permit or leo credentials

[JodyH]

I usually associate Civ-armor carriers with being low profile and "slick". Mil-Armor carriers with being "load bearing" with heavy duty padded shoulder straps, MOLLE, drag handles, etc.. LE-armor carriers as middle ground, somewhat low profile but enough pockets and attachment points for some duty gear.
As to the actual plates and soft armor, Civ and LE usually have access to the exact same stuff just the average guy has to hunt around more and do more research to avoid China-shit.

Mission drives the carrier and armor selection.
As a Civilian, I pretty much have an example of all three Civ, LE, Mil in my "collection".
I have a Mil style SKD PIG carrier with multi-hit rated Lvl IV ceramics and IIIA backers. It's truly a pig and I keep it in my master closet for SHTF defend the Alamo civil unrest.
I also have a LBT First Responder carrier which currently has IIIA soft armor in it but will probably be upgraded to Lvl III UHMWPE plates for some rifle protection and stab resistance. It's semi low profile (you aint hidin it under a T shirt), quick to throw on, has a drag handle and lives in the "BOB" backpack that usually rides on the back seat of my pickup to be used if I get caught up in someone else's riot. It's also adjustable enough that my wife can wear it.
Finally I have a very slick concealable IIIA vest that I wear when I think it's a good idea. Like shooting by myself where people can sneak up on me, picking up or dropping off lots of cash, investigating weird people at the gun range I'm a board member of, things like that. I'd also wear it if for some reason I decided to spectate or participate in a protest or gathering that could get "spicy". It's slick enough that at first glance it's doesn't stand out if it's underneath a dark T shirt and it disappears under a hoodie, light jacket or button down print (dare I say Hawaiian) shirt.

[TR675]

Where would a civvie go to get quality soft armor?


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[JodyH]

Where would a civvie go to get quality soft armor?


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https://www.spartanarmorsystems.com/spartan-armor-systems-concealable-iiia-certified-wraparound-vest/

[Bratch]

What is the opinion on SKD armor? I see some of it listed as not certified but tested to...

I often use code spec non code equipment at work so I understand what they are doing with the lack of certification for cost savings.

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What is the opinion on SKD armor? I see some of it listed as not certified but tested to...

I often use code spec non code equipment at work so I understand what they are doing with the lack of certification for cost savings.A lack of NIJ certification is not necessarily a bad thing; there are many special threat plates that are tested to specific threats, but not submitted for NIJ testing. I would trust the SKD plates to perform as advertised.

[ViniVidivici]

Agreed. I would trust anything put out by SKD.

[Rex G]

What is the opinion on SKD armor? I see some of it listed as not certified but tested to...

I often use code spec non code equipment at work so I understand what they are doing with the lack of certification for cost savings.

The “specs” for body armor are not necessarily real-world relevant, with today’s ammunition threats. The best of the best body armor manufacturers are working to counter the newest threats.

I did the “homework” on this, when I was armor-shopping, several years ago, so do not remember the details, but they can be found, in these P-F forums, if one looks for them. I remember SKD being one of the best sources for plates.

Ultimately, my usual threats were thugs’ AK weapons, mostly 7.62x39, and, the .223 55-grain JSP ammo in my colleagues’ patrol carbines*, so I did not actually acquire the newest/bestest, a.k.a. Level “III+,” to use in the final year or so, of my policin’ career. (I actually wore Level III plates, with IIIa Kevlar back panels, full-time, during most of my final year on patrol.)

Some folks will have a higher realistic chance of facing the newest 5.56 penetrators, or other specific threats, so, should plan and shop accordingly.

*Snatched LE weapons, and “friendly” fire, are very real threats for LEOs.

[Doug]

As noted previously, the Tencate 6400/AT Armor Stop-BZ/Velocity PBZ is a nice plate with all the advantages and disadvantages of a plate containing ceramics.

If in the market for new armor, I'd take a close look at AMI's products, as they are a reputable vendor who sells to vetted civilians: https://www.armoredmobility.com

From their website. It looks like if you are in a no-issue Ccw county, you can’t buy them... “Please note that our tactical plates are only available to authorized Concealed Carry Weapon (CCW) permit holders, Law Enforcement, Government Entities, and the Military.”

[SouthNarc]

There's some stuff that's restricted by the manufacturer/reseller, like the VS ShadoWorks stuff. The real issue I guess is that the number of easily purchasable plates is smaller than the number of good plates. For example, the TenCate Cratus 8075SA seems pretty legit on paper as low viz plates, but where can I actually find them for sale as an individual set?


ShadoWorks is tightly restricted and even if it was available for regular people would be cost prohibitive for the average person. But it is the most state of the art armor on the planet.

[WobblyPossum]

Kind of on topic: Does anyone know of the Air Force is issuing M855A1? There’s a large air base in my area so it’s a consideration.

[JodyH]

*Snatched LE weapons, and “friendly” fire, are very real threats for LEOs.
Even as a civ my #1 criteria for body armor is it has to be rated for all the guns I am bringing to the fight.

[Mike C]

Kind of on topic: Does anyone know of the Air Force is issuing M855A1? There’s a large air base in my area so it’s a consideration.

This I can't answer but I live close to an Army Base. I have already seen M855A1 for sale on armslist and other places locally. No doubt stolen shit some dumb ass is selling to the general public. If you live near a post of any kind I would absolutely want armor rated for M855A1.

On another note, does anyone on here have experience with Crye Precision's LVS Patrol Cut base vest, if so what plates would you look at for it? I've been looking at the LVS because it is scalable and cannot find specs for the vest in terms of material composition or what plates will work best other than, "less than .70" thickness recommended."

Looking for something low profile but can bump to more overt full scale.

[TGS]

This I can't answer but I live close to an Army Base. I have already seen M855A1 for sale on armslist and other places locally. No doubt stolen shit some dumb ass is selling to the general public. If you live near a post of any kind I would absolutely want armor rated for M855A1.

On another note, does anyone on here have experience with Crye Precision's LVS Patrol Cut base vest, if so what plates would you look at for it? I've been looking at the LVS because it is scalable and cannot find specs for the vest in terms of material composition or what plates will work best other than, "less than .70" thickness recommended."

Looking for something low profile but can bump to more overt full scale.

Mike,

I have the LVS patrol cut. The recommendation for plates is based off the plate carrier being a tight fit. I didn't use their plates/plate carrier with it, though, so I can't recommend anything.

From what I understand, it's basically a compressed PE soft vest, sandwiched with heat and force. What size are you? If you want to "try before you buy", I'll send you mine and you can just keep it/pay me if you like it. I've decided to stick with my agency issued VS ShadoWorks stuff.

[Mike C]

Mike,

I have the LVS patrol cut. The recommendation for plates is based off the plate carrier being a tight fit. I didn't use their plates/plate carrier with it, though, so I can't recommend anything.

From what I understand, it's basically a compressed PE soft vest, sandwiched with heat and force. What size are you? If you want to "try before you buy", I'll send you mine and you can just keep it/pay me if you like it. I've decided to stick with my agency issued VS ShadoWorks stuff.

Extremely generous, PM in bound.

[Nephrology]

Took the plunge myself :

https://i.imgur.com/HlvAV4i.png

Now just need to figure out what, if anything, I will put on it.

[Casual Friday]

Took the plunge myself :

https://i.imgur.com/HlvAV4i.png

Now just need to figure out what, if anything, I will put on it.

Initially I loaded my plate carrier down with a bunch of stuff I thought was mandatory but now I'm running it slick. It conceals pretty well under a hoodie or medium weight jacket. Spare mags and med stuff (although I'm sure your med supplies and skills are a little more advanced than mine :D) are in my backpack anyway and I can just run a chest rig over the carrier when training.

[Nephrology]

Initially I loaded my plate carrier down with a bunch of stuff I thought was mandatory but now I'm running it slick. It conceals pretty well under a hoodie or medium weight jacket. Spare mags and med stuff (although I'm sure your med supplies and skills are a little more advanced than mine :D) are in my backpack anyway and I can just run a chest rig over the carrier when training.

Nice. That was my inclination as well. And no my med kit stuff on my person will be limited to the contents of an MFAK or less, haha. Nothing I could ever fit on my person would be a reasonable substitute for a surgeon ad well staffed OR. Maybe see if I can stash a spare AR mag in the Joey but otherwise, for my purposes, I don't think I will add too much more.

[Casual Friday]

I've had this plate carrier for a number of years, I bought it used and IIRC it's made by Blue Force Gear. The plates that were in it measured 10x13 and fit very snug and required some effort to remove. When researching plates a while back, the common sizes seemed to be 8x10, 10x12, and 11x14. I bought a set of Hesco 10x12 plates and they fit nice and snug on the sides but there's an inch of free space in the top of the carrier. I couldn't find any 10x13 plates when I was looking to order, just 10x13 soft armor. Were 10x13 plates more common a decade ago or so or did I just get some funky no name china plates?

59803

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I've had this plate carrier for a number of years, I bought it used and IIRC it's made by Blue Force Gear. The plates that were in it measured 10x13 and fit very snug and required some effort to remove. When researching plates a while back, the common sizes seemed to be 8x10, 10x12, and 11x14. I bought a set of Hesco 10x12 plates and they fit nice and snug on the sides but there's an inch of free space in the top of the carrier. I couldn't find any 10x13 plates when I was looking to order, just 10x13 soft armor. Were 10x13 plates more common a decade ago or so or did I just get some funky no name china plates?The BFG PCs are sized based on SAPI plate sizes; the sizes you listed are arguably non-standard, though they are popular in the LE world. It sounds like you have a size large PLATEminus V1; large SAPI/ESAPI plates are 10⅛ x 13¼ in. This sizing issue is why people recommend you pick out the plates you want first, then pick out the PC that fits the plates.

[Casual Friday]

The BFG PCs are sized based on SAPI plate sizes; the sizes you listed are arguably non-standard, though they are popular in the LE world. It sounds like you have a size large PLATEminus V1; large SAPI/ESAPI plates are 10⅛ x 13¼ in. This sizing issue is why people recommend you pick out the plates you want first, then pick out the PC that fits the plates.

Will I be kilt in da streetz if I run it? I don't mind buying another carrier, I was just using it because I had it.

[Default.mp3]

Will I be kilt in da streetz if I run it? I don't mind buying another carrier, I was just using it because I had it.I would not recommend running the PLATEminus with 10"×12" plates, simply because you do not want the gap to be at the top, since having a PC that sits too low is one of the primary sins that people commit when wearing a PC. If you get plates properly sized for it, I think the PLATEminus V1 is a wonderful low-profile carrier, especially if paired with BFG's Ten-Speeds. I actually primarily use my PLATEminus V2 these days, it replacing my old Tyr PICO just due to bulk considerations, while my V1s still sit around as potential low profile use (I can wear my V1s with STOP-BZs under my old department polo and it wouldn't look like I had armor on).

[Casual Friday]

I would not recommend running the PLATEminus with 10"×12" plates, simply because you do not want the gap to be at the top, since having a PC that sits too low is one of the primary sins that people commit when wearing a PC. If you get plates properly sized for it, I think the PLATEminus V1 is a wonderful low-profile carrier, especially if paired with BFG's Ten-Speeds. I actually primarily use my PLATEminus V2 these days, it replacing my old Tyr PICO just due to bulk considerations, while my V1s still sit around as potential low profile use (I can wear my V1s with STOP-BZs under my old department polo and it wouldn't look like I had armor on).

Thanks, looks like I'm on the hunt for a carrier for the Hesco plates and a set of SAPI plates for the BFG carrier.

[helothar]

Thanks, looks like I'm on the hunt for a carrier for the Hesco plates and a set of SAPI plates for the BFG carrier.

No experience with it thus far but I just ordered the velocity LEPC

https://www.optactical.com/vesylawenplc.html

They have them in green in small/medium which they say will fit the 10x12 plates

[Joe S]

Even as a civ my #1 criteria for body armor is it has to be rated for all the guns I am bringing to the fight.

Makes it tough when the Barrett comes out to play...

[Bratch]

I got a set of the Chase 10x12 plates and a carrier during their sale.

I’ve had an empty armor carry sitting in the closet for about 10 years. It’s set up for BALCS soft and hard armor. Would you guys spend the money to get it filled out with armor? Would probably start soft and share plates for now. Would strictly be for SHTF I don’t see myself using it in classes or for much else.

[UNK]

https://youtu.be/Ji5VpHaNySw

[03RN]

8 mile run last week
BCS low pro with large sapis. Wish I went medium
76704

[JPedersen]

Tagging in so that I can be the remora to Rob’s research shark :D

Me too! I love that quote! Lol


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[BillSWPA]

8 mile run last week
BCS low pro with large sapis. Wish I went medium
76704

Running with a jogging stroller takes running to a new level. Both of my kids loved the ride. That is also quite a test of the comfort of the armor.