20 Gauge Coach Gun

[Stephanie B]

It may be irrational AF, but I've got an urge to get a 20-gauge coach gun. As I age, I've come to like that cartridge more and more.

Talk me down?

[BehindBlueI's]

They aren't expensive, they've got a certain coolness to them due to the mere name "coach gun", and 20g is a handy round. Why wouldn't you jump on one if you want one?


Talk me down?

Obviously my reading comprehension sucks, sorry. :D

[BobM]

I had a Stoeger 12 ga coach gun when I dabbled in CAS. I always thought one in 20 would be pretty handy. They break down easily for travel if that’s a consideration.

[Lester Polfus]

If you buy a coach gun, you own 25% of the guns you need to compete in CAS.

So there's that.

[Rex G]

Loading a 20 gauge shell into a 12 gauge chamber can result in unpleasant consequences, especially if this goes unnoticed, and a 12 gauge shell is then loaded into the chamber. So, if one already keeps 12 gauge shotguns, one needs to be really careful about this.

[Totem Polar]

It may be irrational AF, but I've got an urge to get a 20-gauge coach gun. As I age, I've come to like that cartridge more and more.

Talk me down?

Beyond not spending the money on a nice dinner out instead, there is literally no reason not to indulge. Do it. Dooo itttt....

[Stephanie B]

Beyond not spending the money on a nice dinner out instead, there is literally no reason not to indulge. Do it. Dooo itttt....

As soon as I can find one at a decent price.

[Totem Polar]

As soon as I can find one at a decent price.

Not to be stirring the pot, but rolling your own is another option: get a SxS from a more reputable age (mine is a Stevens 311, I believe) and have the barrel cut back and add the bead/FS of your choice by a decent ‘smith. That’s a cheap mod.

[Lex Luthier]

Not to be stirring the pot, but rolling your own is another option: get a SxS from a more reputable age (mine is a Stevens 311, I believe) and have the barrel cut back and add the bead/FS of your choice by a decent ‘smith. That’s a cheap mod.

Coolness and patina. "Beausage", as the bike nerds say. Might even get more for the money.

[Totem Polar]

Coolness and patina. "Beausage", as the bike nerds say. Might even get more for the money.

Caveat emptor, and all that, but I’d generally take an old, faded American workhorse over a new shiny Turkish Delight (apologies to C.S. Lewis)

[fatdog]

The Stoeger single trigger coach guns are pretty decent. I have many hundreds of rounds through one in CAS and I did a Form 1 for one of the pair I own and cut it to 12" "because" and it is quite bad ass. Broken down it fits in some very small spaces.

They made one in 20ga (https://www.gunbroker.com/item/864750297) and I think they are readily available. I found the single trigger versions to be much easier to run than the double trigger versions.

As the CAS crowd ages out of the game a lot of used ones are starting to come on the market. I suspect that at some point demand will be so low they quit making them.

My only reservation about a 20 is the not so great variety of loadings available. And in reality I find the true low recoil 12ga 8 pellet 00 buck in the 1100 fps velocity range to be similar to standard 20ga buck shot loads in terms of recoil.

It would be a handy and versatile shotgun to have around. Here is one NIB (https://www.gunbroker.com/item/870723393)for a comparable price.

[randyho]

Talk me down?


The Stoeger single trigger coach guns are pretty decent. I have many hundreds of rounds through one in CAS and I did a Form 1 for one of the pair I own and cut it to 12" "because" and it is quite bad ass. Broken down it fits in some very small spaces.

They made one in 20ga (https://www.gunbroker.com/item/864750297) and I think they are readily available. I found the single trigger versions to be much easier to run than the double trigger versions.

...

It would be a handy and versatile shotgun to have around. Here is one NIB (https://www.gunbroker.com/item/870723393)for a comparable price.
I think a, "hold my beer," would have been an appropriate opener.

OK, one of these, broken down, in the pack along side the Rattler instead of the mini sledge, for breaching(!), and I save~$100! #pfReasonable (https://pistol-forum.com/usertag.php?do=list&action=hash&hash=pfReasonable)

[Brian T]

Ever since Fiocchi ceased their 1B 20ga offering, ammo choices for defensive aspects are slim. Federal has some that might be borderline, but their is no valid testing. I know, I know, "its your world", but believe you should consider 12ga. Those Aquilla mini shells are docile, and I am willing to bet the Federal variant are too. Plus you can get those weird 2 1/2" Nobel 00 buckshot loads that show up from time-to-time that are dirt cheap. In the manner in which many load their snub revolvers, keep it loaded with one of those short shell offerings and have "the good shit" as your reloads.

As for SxS, I highly suggest the previously mentioned Stevens 311 and its familiar variants. Savage 511, Fox, etc. They can be had for about $300, less if you don't care about condition. They are tough assed blasters. NYPD issued them to detectives until 2001, the Stevens 311-R (factory Riot). I snagged mine for $200 OTD. I chopped and crowned it. I will be installing XS Sights vent rib shotgun sights in the rib *hopefully* tomorrow. Stevens 311 series are also very popular with SASS crowds, so popular that Wolff has a dedicated spring kit, and there are/were several how-to videos to slick them up (the videos may no longer exist put step-by-step posts still do). The 311 has a couple of small flaws. One is it has a "rebound" when chopped which means when you break it open and dump the spent rounds because of the reduced frontal mass, the chambers can close a little which makes the reload slow. I will try to resolve this with a mix of acraglass and lead shot between the two barrels (do not use heat!). Also on the latter models like mine, there is a dog leg inside the receiver that reactivates the safety every time you close the action. This dogleg need only be dremeled off, but it is something to be aware of.

Every Ft Worth cop that is "all rifle all the time" has seen my Stevens 311H leaning against has a shit fit over it. They wanna buy it, or they want to know where to get one. So yeah, the shop I work at from time-to-time is a high end, boutique rifle shop, but now cops and the citizenry are starting to bring their old gauges to me for a refresh. Ownership hates it "...but I don't give a fuck" -Martin Riggs;)

[fatdog]

there is a dog leg inside the receiver that reactivates the safety every time you close the action. This dogleg need only be dremeled off, but it is something to be aware of.

I am ignorant about the Stevens models, for some reason they are just rarely seen (by me at least) in my part of world in the used gun racks, but the Stoegers have the same feature, requires all of 60 seconds to grind it off. Safety still functions but you stop that annoying "auto on" every time you close the action.

[Baldanders]

It may be irrational AF, but I've got an urge to get a 20-gauge coach gun. As I age, I've come to like that cartridge more and more.

Talk me down?

No.

I wanna coach gun, too.

Plus, my SO would probably find it more approachable than our loooooong and single-shot Stevens or my heavy FP6.

Not sure about 20 gauge, but the coach gun examples I have handled sure seem nice and handy.

[Totem Polar]

...so popular that Wolff has a dedicated spring kit...

Ohboyohboy

#ididnotknowthat (https://pistol-forum.com/usertag.php?do=list&action=hash&hash=ididnotknowthat)

:D

[Rick R]

The last gun show I attended in Harrisburg PA just before the pandemic got spun up had dozens of older SxS shotguns that had been bobbed down to 18 - 20”. I was mentally calling them Biden Specials, but almost every table had four or more on them. Seemed to be the “thing to do” with gramps old Fox or Stevens.

I recently fondled a CZ Bobwhite in 20ga and was quoted $600 for a new one. Seems to get good reviews online as a bird gun. Extractors, double triggers and a straight “English” stock. You could be styling. :cool:

Edited to add, they make a 20ga Coach Gun

https://cz-usa.com/product/cz-sharp-tail-coach/

Yer welcome

[Stephanie B]

Not to be stirring the pot, but rolling your own is another option: get a SxS from a more reputable age (mine is a Stevens 311, I believe) and have the barrel cut back and add the bead/FS of your choice by a decent ‘smith. That’s a cheap mod.

Hell, I could always put the barrels in a vise and take a hacksaw to them. Then it'd look like a proper coach gun. :cool:

[Hambo]

Caveat emptor, and all that, but I’d generally take an old, faded American workhorse over a new shiny Turkish Delight (apologies to C.S. Lewis)

That's a good plan. I thought about the Turks, but I recently found a 12ga JC Higgins (311) that still looks like it did when it was new in 1955. I also have a 1949 built 16ga that isn't nearly as nice.


Hell, I could always put the barrels in a vise and take a hacksaw to them. Then it'd look like a proper coach gun. :cool:

You did ask us to talk you down. First, if you're going to defile an old one, just buy the Turk. There's some poor bastard like me looking for an uncut vintage 20. Second, have you checked shotgun ammo availability lately? There isn't much buckshot to be had in any gauge. Of course, you could double down and buy a MEC. Or just buy some authentic coach gun brass hulls. There, I tried.

[SeriousStudent]

I have one of the aforementioned Stoeger coach guns, but in 12 gauge. Recoil is substantial, until you get a good recoil pad mounted.

I've pretty much settled on two loads for the Mighty Gauge - the Federal 00 Buck 8-pellet Flite Control Reduced Recoil load, and the Brenneke Home Defense slug. Those pattern extremely well in every shotgun I own.

The reason I point that out, is that I'm not familiar with a similar loading in 20 gauge. I'd be hesitant to give up the round that I believe have the best terminal ballistics than that.

But I have a 38 J-frame in my left front pocket as I type this, so feel free to ignore everything I wrote. :cool:

If you just want a fun gun (and who among us does not own at least a half-dozen?) then by all means get one with great wood grain and show us the pictures. :)

[willie]

It may be irrational AF, but I've got an urge to get a 20-gauge coach gun. As I age, I've come to like that cartridge more and more.

Talk me down?

See http://www.longhunt.com

[Brian T]

Of course, you could double down and buy a MEC. Or just buy some authentic coach gun brass hulls. There, I tried.

Magtech still makes unprimed 12 gauge brass hulls. I *think* you have to do some special stuff to load them. That said, some of those in a leather butt cuff from Andy Langlois would badass.

[Brian T]

Ohboyohboy

#ididnotknowthat (https://pistol-forum.com/usertag.php?do=list&action=hash&hash=ididnotknowthat)

:D

https://www.gunsprings.com/STEVENS/311/cID2/mID113/dID281

https://www.gunsprings.com/STEVENS/311/cID2/mID113/dID281

[willie]

CZ makes a double barrel hammer double. But if I had coin, I would buy a new Ithaca M37 20 gauge security shotgun and pay them an extra $100 to test fire it 50 times to verify impact point and reliable function. I do not imply that this is necessary, but spending the extra money would be worth it to me.

[Poconnor]

I have a 311R that I kept in the closet for my wife when I was not home. It has a leather butt cuff on it. I kept it loaded with snap caps so I could fire both triggers and leave it like that. I also rubber banded two OO buck shells to the pistol grip. It reminded her to load it. It had a simple manual of arms

[OlongJohnson]

The better young Turks site:

https://www.stoegerindustries.com/coach-guns-single-and-double-trigger-shotguns

Then use gun.deals to find the best price on the one you like.

[Brian T]

Modify the 311 so the barrels open up further to reduce or eliminate rebound

http://rucascowboys.com/stevensmod.htm

[NH Shooter]

I turned an old Lefever 16 into a Fudd Tactical a few years ago. According to my research it originally had 28" barrels when new that were cut to 26" before I was born, presumably to open up the chokes. It was effectively open in one barrel and modified in the other with the two inch cut. I inherited the gun about 50 years ago from my grandfather, and about 15 years ago a good friend of mine who is really quite talented talked me into having him refinish it. Since the barrels were already cut and the gun didn't have any collector value, I had him go ahead with that project. As expected, he did a first class job.

A few years ago I decided to cut the barrels back to 20 inches and installed a HiViz FO front sight. It patterns Federal 2-3/4" 12-pellet 1B at 10 yards inside the 9-ring of a B27, and inside the 10-ring at five yards. Broken down if fits easily in the carry-on travel luggage I use for our visits to NY. I carry the ammo in a Wilderness ZipLoader (https://www.thewilderness.com/magazine-speedloader-and-ammo-carriers/ziploader12-12-gauge/), it holds the 16 gauge shells just tight enough they don't fall out.

For a home defense piece it wouldn't be my first choice, but I would not feel terribly disadvantaged either.


https://i.ibb.co/m4T13NZ/lefever-4.jpg


https://i.ibb.co/MSs0hsG/lefever-3.jpg


https://i.ibb.co/mDMBN8y/lefever-2.jpg


https://i.ibb.co/mRmpPZx/lefever-1.jpg


https://i.ibb.co/x65BX3T/lefevertarget-2.jpg


https://i.ibb.co/93fy6KC/lefevertarget-1.jpg

[entropy]

Damn. You always have the coolest shotguns....


Thinking out loud, I wonder how much cutting one down to 18”-20” and doing what you have done above would cost? I have a 12ga that has been collecting dust for nearly 30 years that either needs some tough love or booted out the door.

“Fudd Tactical”. BTW, I’m stealing that too. ;)

[Hambo]

I have one of the aforementioned Stoeger coach guns, but in 12 gauge. Recoil is substantial, until you get a good recoil pad mounted.


It is in my 12ga, but I tenderize my shoulder with the original butt plate to remind myself of days when I thought nothing of it.


Magtech still makes unprimed 12 gauge brass hulls. I *think* you have to do some special stuff to load them. That said, some of those in a leather butt cuff from Andy Langlois would badass.

I've got a box of Magtech 16ga around here somewhere. The plan was to load them with black powder because it was a good idea...maybe? I never got around to it, but if someone wants to do it, start here https://www.ballisticproducts.com/MagTech-12ga-2-1_2-empty-brass-shotshells-for-reloading/productinfo/3921270/

[Rex G]

If one is going to hand-load, anyway:

https://www.davide-pedersoli.com/tipologia-prodotti.asp/l_en/idt_29/pistols-howdah-hunter.html

Non-NFA.

[314159]

Let me be the Spock/No fun voice. Don't get a 20 gauge coach gun.

Comparing just the Stoeger Coach guns which in 12 and 20 are 6.5 and 6.4 pounds in weight. The 2 3/4 inch loads for a 20 are the only low recoil choices in a 20, as the 3 inch loads kick a good bit more than a 2 3/4 inch12 ga. low recoil load. Those two factoids together of course mean the 20 version will recoil more than the 12 with the added disadvantages of limited ammunition choices and availability. See the thread entitled "Looking for 20 gauge suggestions" in the ammo section here for details on that.

Having said that, my Stoeger 12 Coach handles great and shoots Brenneke slugs from both barrels to within 3 inches of point of aim at 50 yards. I was shocked too.

The Stoeger comes with a Picatinny rail for lights and sights both (in the Double Defense model) and I say get one of those. But in a 12.

[farscott]

I would talk you down by talking you into a 12-gauge coach gun, allowing you to have more options of less expensive and better performing ammo. Plus low-recoil 12-gauge feels like 20-gauge recoil.

[TDA]

I would talk you down by talking you into a 12-gauge coach gun, allowing you to have more options of less expensive and better performing ammo. Plus low-recoil 12-gauge feels like 20-gauge recoil.

It's true that 20 gauge ammo selection pretty much sucks all the time whereas 12 just sucks, like, this quarter (I hope!) But I imagine you've already got a 12 gauge loaded with buckshot someplace. This idea has the undeniable appeal of allowing you to buy another shotgun. Maybe you'll even get to take it to the gunsmith, which is like buying it a second time, only for a little less money!

[03RN]

I once cut a 12ga Sterlingworth down to 19" and the grip into a birdshead grip. Long before the shockwaves were talked about.

I sold it to a friend, well gave. For like a case of beer because he couldn't really afford anything. I miss it. He loves it.

I also really miss my 26" 20ga spanish sxs with double triggers. It had a mod/cyl choke and carried so nice. I need to find another one.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

there is a dog leg inside the receiver that reactivates the safety every time you close the action. This dogleg need only be dremeled off, but it is something to be aware of.

Yes, I was given one as 'mystery' pickup gun in a house clearing exercise. You had to use it. Took a couple of 2 shot loads to figure it out.

[TCinVA]

I can tell you that the Stoeger "tactical" coach gun is an unforgivable pile of junk. I have handled multiple examples and they suck out loud.

[OlongJohnson]

Thanks. You probably saved me money, eventually. I've been looking at the non-tactical versions more and more often lately. Although I might replace that with cruising GB for 311s.

ETA - dang, it seems like every 311 has a cracked stock at the front end where it meets the receiver...

EATA - Boyd's has coverage if that's a problem.

[Brian T]

Stevens 311-H

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/869787517

JC Higgins 101.7 (aka Stevens 311)

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/864351805

[OlongJohnson]

Beverly Fudds...

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/866325197

[entropy]

If you didn’t use the luggage style case, you’d need to put that in a Gucci backpack of some kind...

Years back, I was into bird hunting and English double guns. This was right after all the heavy restrictions came down in the U.K. There were deals to be had, and even bringing them stateside was fairly simple. I’m not talking bespoke Holland and Holland here, but rather gorgeous little straight stocked bird guns chambered in 12ga 2 1/2“ or 2 3/4”. Most of these were made by the small, cottage industry English ‘smiths that were common there around the turn of the century. Brits being Brits, before sale, they all had to be assured of proof, and many were sleeved and reproofed prior to sale. There were PAGES and PAGES of them in the auction houses over there being dumped. I still have a few which my kids will eventually get. In one of the green leather trimmed canvas cases, I found a tucked note in the lining that had been given to the gunsmith. Best I can tell, it appears this chap went off to war, dropped the gun off, and never returned. Makes you think. While those little doubles would make a hell of a project gun, I would not want to suffer in the afterlife for getting it altered into something the original owner would deem “uncivilized”.

[Dr_Thanatos]

https://www.gunsprings.com/STEVENS/311/cID2/mID113/dID281

https://www.gunsprings.com/STEVENS/311/cID2/mID113/dID281

I have a 311 that I used for CAS. I decided to change out the springs with this set. I ended up taking the gun to a gunsmith in a bucket. Those springs are hard to compress.

Even after a good bit of work, the barrels did not want to stay all the way open for unloading and reloading.

At least a long time ago, you could replace the spring on a stoeger coach gun with a recoil spring from a 1911. Made the gun much easier to load and unload. Don't know if there have been any changes since then. It was an early model.

[revolvergeek]

Modify the 311 so the barrels open up further to reduce or eliminate rebound

http://rucascowboys.com/stevensmod.htm

Thanks for that! :cool:

[Brian T]

Thanks for that! :cool:

I am gonna try to do it. I will admit I am nervous about this. Not the actual cutting, but reassembling. By all accounts its a mother bitch of a job.

[lwt16]

My son has the Stoeger coach gun double triggers in 12g. That thing is a hoot.

We have found that the Sellier and Belot buckshot loads are somewhat low recoil. We have tried 00 as well as #4 buck in it and it is not bad at all. I'd stick with 12g if at all possible.

[Hambo]

I am gonna try to do it. I will admit I am nervous about this. Not the actual cutting, but reassembling. By all accounts its a mother bitch of a job.




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aVVPzOCDlE4

[Brian T]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aVVPzOCDlE4

I have watched that video 30 times over, trying to convince myself this aint no shit. I dont understand. I can dis/reassemble most handguns, shotguns, and rifles brought to me, but there are some that just intimidate me! Intimidate probably isn't the right word, because I am still gonna do the disassembly. I never want to be "that guy" who disassembles a gun and cant put it back together.

[Brian T]

So I almost finished my Stevens 311 build. The "Sipowicz Special". I finally added ti the Benelli/Remington vent rib sights to the solid rib of the Stevens 311

[Totem Polar]

That looks great. The everyman’s express double.

[UNM1136]

It may be irrational AF, but I've got an urge to get a 20-gauge coach gun. As I age, I've come to like that cartridge more and more.

Talk me down?

Can't talk you down. I will need to buy one or two to avoid taking a hacksaw to my dad's sequentually serial numbered Beretta O/Us, one in 20 gauge, and one in 12. My irrational want is for Mel Gibson's thigh rig with the pistol SBS break action side by side. Not only do I lust after that concept, but I always thought the O/U would be better suited to the role.

I also like the 20, raising teens that are showing recoil sensitivity and all. I just wish there were half the quality loads the 12 has...

pat

[Bigghoss]

My irrational want is for Mel Gibson's thigh rig with the pistol SBS break action side by side.

You mean you never dreamed of being Ben Doyle in the old west?
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/proxy/0bbv7tWBkfcuSHIwNN382kk7J7G3E8FurOeY8RawB5JwOzXJUC XBr-16xxNDZNxaj2PoS8EBNoiZmymTTXiMOPTJOJLDyQepDiO3Q1uh LVc8gPiywRtjOYgQXYfAXcmhvvdfUNZVZ53Fli_WTjqJXjNoGV efu5F7HcNRYCQ

(I tried really hard to find a better picture.)

[Wondering Beard]

You mean you never dreamed of being Ben Doyle in the old west?
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/proxy/0bbv7tWBkfcuSHIwNN382kk7J7G3E8FurOeY8RawB5JwOzXJUC XBr-16xxNDZNxaj2PoS8EBNoiZmymTTXiMOPTJOJLDyQepDiO3Q1uh LVc8gPiywRtjOYgQXYfAXcmhvvdfUNZVZ53Fli_WTjqJXjNoGV efu5F7HcNRYCQ

(I tried really hard to find a better picture.)

You should have gone with James Caan.


https://assets.mubicdn.net/images/notebook/post_images/23545/images-w1400.jpg?1494868650

[Hambo]

So I almost finished my Stevens 311 build. The "Sipowicz Special". I finally added ti the Benelli/Remington vent rib sights to the solid rib of the Stevens 311

What did you do there? Dovetail the rear?

[Bigghoss]

You should have gone with James Caan.

Psshhhh. Jame Caan never rode with the famous outlaw bankrobber Lightning Jack.

[Brian T]

What did you do there? Dovetail the rear?

We dovetailed the front and rear using a custom cutter at Lone Star Armory. XS Sights used to offer this option, but dont anymore.

I have also deleted the auto safety, drilled a dimple and filled it with orange under the tang mounted safety to denote "fire".

[Brian T]

Here are the sights: https://www.xssights.com/Detail.aspx?PROD=993617&CAT=8271

Here is the install video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iA6AiNwrRZg&feature=emb_logo

[RAM Engineer]

Here are the sights: https://www.xssights.com/Detail.aspx?PROD=993617&CAT=8271

Here is the install video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iA6AiNwrRZg&feature=emb_logo

It’s like you read my mind. How else would you know I was just reading this thread today and searching for these sights just two hours ago?!? Thanks!