Raven P-25

[Screwball]

My dad had one of these when I was younger... which he would tell me how he would stuff it in his sock when we went into the city. Was a nickel one, that he sold to my brother-in-law... who might still have it (I specifically don’t talk guns with him, since I get tired when he argues the Judge is the perfect revolver for self-defense).

So, I recently picked up an Iver Johnson Cadet 55-S to complete my small collection of the firearms related to the two Kennedy assassinations (Carcano, S&W Victory, and Colt Cobra already acquired). The dealer I got it from has a black Raven P-25... which is an early example that is considered C&R. Ok price, and then gun is in decent condition (a little wear, but so what on a 50+ year old gun?).

Am I suffering from the ‘Rona... as I kind of want to pick it up? I wouldn’t buy one and have to go through a FFL-01 for, since the transfer fee would make it too much for my tastes. Right to my door... I can accept it.

I already have a Colt Vest Pocket, which is the extent of my .25 collection. Do have larger pocket guns; Walther PP, Ruger LCP, SIG P938, and NAA Sidewinder. Not likely going to be any more than a plinker. How do these sub-$100 pistols hold up over time? Or should I just say no?

[SCCY Marshal]

They can be fun and sometimes surprisingly accurate. In .22 and .25, the Ring of Fire guns tend to last a while. In 380 ACP, even the Bryco collectors' forum discourages people buying them. That caliber self-destructs guns in short order. Jusy depends if some cheap range fun and sentimentality is worth the money to you.

As an example, if I ever tripped over a wood gripped Jennings J-22 for less than a hundo, I'd throw out my shoulder going for the wallet. Actually bought my Ruger LCP II Lite Rack in .22 largely because I'd once enjoyed a Jennings. So there is a bias here.

Does Headhunter still post here? He'd be a good guy to respond with his old history with such guns and running them somewhat hard and completely unironically.

[BillSWPA]

HeadHunter would certainly be the person to ask. He has worked with students such as single moms who do not have two nickels to rub together after paying the mandatory monthly bills, and therefore need the cheapest options possible. So, he has tested many of these inexpensive pistols.

[Polecat]

Cool thread, When I was maybe 9 or 10, remember going to midcity mall in louisville with my Grandad, sat with him on the bench and all the old guys smokin pipes. They would show me their pocket guns from time to time. They all were wiser, older, seasoned, they kept them folded in expedient hankercheif holsters, loaded, safety on. No permits, just no bragging or brandishing, just time for business. My grandad had two little cool RGs that ran great.

[HeadHunter]

I only have experience with one Raven. I have worked extensively with Jennings/Bryco/Jimenez guns. The JBJ guns are more accurate than most people can shoot them, probably because they have a fixed barrel. They also can be a lot more reliable than they are given credit for. The technique I used to achieve reliability was the Armand Swenson gunsmithing method. I swapped the springs around between 5 or 6 different guns until it would shoot 3 magazines of five rounds reliably. At that point, the gun will become pretty much trouble free. That's not a solution for the typical user but it was very successful for me.

[feudist]

There's a Bryco collectors forum?

[SCCY Marshal]

There's a Bryco collectors forum?

Guess not. Fished for a link and it appears to have gone down a couple years back. Might have to pour out a forty in memoriam.

[Buckshot]

Raven P25's weakest link is the firing pin. They love to break under dry fire. Good news/bad news: tool steel replacements are available, but they cost more than the gun is worth (IMO, of course). I admit to having 2 working Jennings J22s but, A- they were both free, and B- resisting an occupation, you know?

[45dotACP]

When my sisters were in college they lived in a not so nice area of Chicago. A Raven 25 caliber rested silently in a cigar box next to the mirror where they did their makeup. It also had an IWB holster and I would be surprised if it didn't end up in a purse once in a while when they took the CTA.

Some strange critters on the CTA. Especially the Red Line.

Sent from my moto g(6) using Tapatalk

[scbair]

There was once (1980s, I think) a magazine by the title Handgun Tests. I believe Phil Engeldrum was the main force behind it. I still have an edition in which the cover proclaimed "Why a $49 Raven is better than a S&W Model 59." Bottom line: the Raven ran through every loaded mag without a hitch, while the first gen S&W auto hiccuped regularly.

In fairness to S&W, the second gen autos were an improvement a the third gen service autos like 4006 (pre-dating the polymer M&P line) got it right!

[Polecat]

I would like to see some 35 Gr truncated cone or fmj for better penetration. Amazing Hornady and speer have the little self defense bullets, but they dont penetrate.

[Stephanie B]

There was once (1980s, I think) a magazine by the title Handgun Tests

I think they're still around. Gun Tests? I remember one of their tests; it was a wondernine, 18 shot, and it was so bad they recommended throwing it at an opponent.

[BillSWPA]

If I had to use a .25 for self defense, Winchester makes - or perhaps used to make - ammo that is essentially a JHP but has a small round ball in the hollow point. If I understand correctly, the purpose was to provide some (but not all) of the expansion of a JHP while ensuring reliable functioning in a small semiauto. That would be my vote for the least bad option.

I briefly owned an Intratec .25 acp. When I tried it at an informal shooting range, I was using a homemade wooden target frame. Two bullets hit the frame, penetrated about 3/16 inch, and then dropped to the ground essentially undamaged. A .22 lr. from my 1 1/8 inch (roughly equivalent length rifled portions of the barrel) NAA mini revolver will completely bury a bullet in the same wood. Penetration is a definite weak point of the .25.

[Velo Dog]

There was once (1980s, I think) a magazine by the title Handgun Tests. I believe Phil Engeldrum was the main force behind it. I still have an edition in which the cover proclaimed "Why a $49 Raven is better than a S&W Model 59."

1979

55436

55437

[Velo Dog]

Winchester makes - or perhaps used to make - ammo that is essentially a JHP but has a small round ball in the hollow point.

Discontinued

https://web.archive.org/web/20140126010453/http://www.firearmstactical.com/test_data/25acp/win25-45xp-b20.htm

http://www.brassfetcher.com/Handguns/25%20ACP/25%20ACP%20Ammo%20Selection.html

[willie]

I like to play around with autos like those mentioned here. But note that I said play around with. Regardless of brand, I think these little pistols constitute poor choices if defense is a need. One day I hope to order a custom .25 mold throwing a pointed cast bullet. I will try to achieve extensive penetration in a round that has terrible performance. Then I will sell the mold to another sucker so he can play around.

[scbair]

1979

55436

55437

That's it! Glad I'm not the only one who saves (and savors) old publications!

[scbair]

I would like to see some 35 Gr truncated cone or fmj for better penetration. Amazing Hornady and speer have the little self defense bullets, but they dont penetrate.

I have a small box (I forget whether it was 5, 6 or 10 rounds) somewhere of a load called the "MSC" (Maximum Sub-Caliber) for the .25 ACP. It utilized a solid copper projectile with a hollow point. It was not designed to expand, but to enhance th penetration of the .25 via (relatively) higher velocity. I read somewhere it was discontinued because it was ruled an "armor piercing" round ... Can't say if that was true.

[Polecat]

I had some of those old MSC rounds, they and the terminal effects forum are why I don’t use boutique ammo. I had tried it in my little 950 BS, the jacket steyed adhered to the chamber wall and the bottom of the cartridge shot through, leaving a useless gun. Took me a while to figure out what had happened. I took a small screw and extracted the brass.

[SecondsCount]

Many years ago, a guy that I worked with had a Bryco Jennings in 380. One day he joined me at the shooting range. About 3 mags into his shooting session, the trigger pin sheared off. He took it home, went out to the garage and found a finishing nail that fit tight, pounded it in and cut it flush with a hacksaw. The next week he sold it in the local classifieds for $100.

[41magfan]

I worked a lot of cases involving the Raven .25 Auto - they were very popular with bad guys and good guys alike.

I've posted this before I think; a recovered 35 gr Hornady XTP from a guy that took a dirt nap after breaking in on a woman in the middle of the night. She tried to dissuade him with OC initially but he didn't pick up on her vibe so she whacked him with her Raven.


https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/640x480q90/921/drWmOq.jpg (https://imageshack.com/i/pldrWmOqj)
https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/640x480q90/923/JsJO1g.jpg (https://imageshack.com/i/pnJsJO1gj)

[HeadHunter]

Gun Tests? I remember one of their tests; it was a wondernine, 18 shot, and it was so bad they recommended throwing it at an opponent.

The Rogak, the USA knockoff of the Steyr GB. Its reputation was not good.

https://youtu.be/li9WbNKCwZM

[Stephanie B]

The Rogak, the USA knockoff of the Steyr GB. Its reputation was not good.

https://youtu.be/li9WbNKCwZM

I think that was it!

[joker581]

I only have experience with one Raven. I have worked extensively with Jennings/Bryco/Jimenez guns. The JBJ guns are more accurate than most people can shoot them, probably because they have a fixed barrel. They also can be a lot more reliable than they are given credit for. The technique I used to achieve reliability was the Armand Swenson gunsmithing method. I swapped the springs around between 5 or 6 different guns until it would shoot 3 magazines of five rounds reliably. At that point, the gun will become pretty much trouble free. That's not a solution for the typical user but it was very successful for me.

I bought a Jimenez JA-22 after reading your TPI thread on them a few years back and it's been a great little gun for what it is.