Backup Iron sights for MOS / CORE / CHPWS equipped pistols

[SLUZENE]

I seem to always want what does not exist and it seems I'm not alone.

https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?41687-Warrens-as-MRDS-back-up-sights

I think the market is lacking regarding:

* lower ~1/3 for MOS/CORE/CHPWS equipped guns. i'm not sure why most people would want to true cowitness with their RMR on a pistol but I'm only one person.
* green, orange or yellow tritium front that is as thin as possible (usually ~.120") . something like a proglo orange, yellow and straight black would be great.
* set screw rear with trimmed corners (like ameriglo, etc) with dual green (preferably yellow or orange) tritium rear with a ~.150 notch

Anyone with me?

From Suarez, to Redback One, to 10-8, Ameriglo to Dawson I can't find anything like this.

This layout is my current rough draft for my 19.5MOS with my current training, knowledge, practice and daily routine. I currently have warren fiber optics on my 19.3, but i love the .120 proglo front, dual yellow .156 rear on my glock 43.

(edited for a better explanation)

[ASH556]

I seem to always want what does not exist and it seems I'm not alone.

https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?41687-Warrens-as-MRDS-back-up-sights

I think the market is lacking regarding:

* lower ~1/3 for MOS/CORE/CHPWS equipped guns. i'm not sure why most people would want to true cowitness with their RMR on a pistol but I'm only one person.
* green, orange or yellow tritium front that is as thin as possible (usually ~.120") . something like a proglo orange, yellow and straight black would be great.
* set screw rear with trimmed corners (like ameriglo, etc) with dual green (preferably yellow or orange) tritium rear with a ~.150 notch

Anyone with me?

From Suarez, to Redback One, to 10-8, Ameriglo to Dawson I can't find anything like this.

This layout is my current ideal for my 19.5MOS with my current training, knowledge, practice and daily routine. I currently have warren fiber optics on my 19.3, but i love the .120 proglo front, dual yellow .156 rear on my glock 43.

When shooting irons only, I absolutely agree with the hi-viz (HD, Proglo, etc) tritium front sight. When used as backup/index sights in conjunction with an RDS I disagree. I want plain black because I don't want to look at them unless I have to. Hi viz front sight with a dot seems to negate that hole "target focus" advantage of the rds.

[SLUZENE]

I think that's a fair point, and thank you. Other plan is to dim normal tritium (non outlined like proglo) them pretty well, such as a purple sharpie over green tritium like our very own Chuck Haggard does (not that he advocates sharpie to darken the vials, only to change color i recall).

This would be primarily for the RMR going bad at night time, which of course, is probably pretty rare if i do my part to taking care of it while it rides EDC appendix. Daytime? I'm totally cool with black on black when used with RMR+MOS

[Jay585]

When shooting irons only, I absolutely agree with the hi-viz (HD, Proglo, etc) tritium front sight. When used as backup/index sights in conjunction with an RDS I disagree. I want plain black because I don't want to look at them unless I have to. Hi viz front sight with a dot seems to negate that hole "target focus" advantage of the rds.

Agree with both posts.

Want a set up like OP's post but black front/rear irons.

So far I haven't found anything like that, but JSGlock34 mentioned this:

https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?41752-Red-dot-glock-research&p=1026964&viewfull=1#post1026964


I believe the GL-506 is the MOS lower 1/3 co-witness height, and the GL-429 is intended for direct mill mounts. That said, I think the GL-429 will serve on a MOS gun, but will be a little lower than the traditional 1/3 co-witness.

Haven't had a chance to acquire a set.

[noguns]

I'm not qualified like many here. But I don't find my tritium front with white outline distracting. Probably because my sights sit so low(gl411 on MOS ch precision ).
I think if I could choose I would have Dawson's with a fiber green front and plain square serrated rear.

[JSGlock34]

So I've been through a few iterations of optics guns and BUIS. When I started I wanted a hi-viz front sight like on my iron sight guns. Back then I was also using the "press-out" and a slightly muzzle high presentation, which worked well with the bright front sight, but proved a poor match for an optic.

Personally, I don't want anything but the red dot and the target competing for my attention when presenting the pistol. I've since gone to all black Ameriglo BUIS. The GL-506 is the right height for MOS guns and places the rear notch at the same height as the deck of a RMR or SRO for a lower 1/3 co-witness. The GL-429 is intended for direct milled guns; the rear notch won't entirely clear the deck of a RMR/SRO on a MOS gun and is more like a lower 1/5 co-witness.

The Ameriglo website isn't the best, but page 10 of the Ameriglo 2019 Catalog (https://ameriglo.com/assets/docs/AmeriGloNightSights-2019B-Catalog2.pdf) has some good information on their suppressor/optic sights. I'm not sure how a set-screw rear is going to work with the limited MOS dovetail real estate. Based on your description, I *think* a GL-815 is about as close as you'll find from Ameriglo.

GL-815 3XL Tall Green Green Tritium 3 dot sight set black outlines .365" F .451" R

The GL-691 would offer a Pro-Glo front but a flat black rear. I'm doubtful this is a thin ProGlo.

GL-691 3XL Tall Green Tritium LimeGreenLumi Outline .365" front, FlatBlack .451" Rear

ETA: Here's the chart from the catalog. Lots of options from Ameriglo.

https://ameriglo.com/assets/img/all/tallfront.PNG_04b215ff-d2f4-4358-a221-7eebe9abfecf_2048x2048.png

[Duke]

I’m nearing the optic only, no back up irons at all.

[JSGlock34]

I’m nearing the optic only, no back up irons at all.

Having personally broken a number of Type 1 and Type 2 RMRs, I'm not there. $50 for BUIS is cheap insurance and I barely notice them anymore.

[Lon]

Here’s a G5.19MOS w/507c, CHPWS v3 plate and Ameriglo GL-429s.
55281

[Duke]

Having personally broken a number of Type 1 and Type 2 RMRs, I'm not there. $50 for BUIS is cheap insurance and I barely notice them anymore.

I know.

My chances of being killed on my private range by a paper PF Q target are pretty slim though.

[ASH556]

JSGlock34 thanks for that chart. Seems like it might depend on the plate? For instance, I'm using a 19.5 MOS gun, but with FCD plate. RM06, Ameriglo Gl-470's. Does the Lower 1/3 pretty well I think. These are called 2XL. The ones you're saying for lower 1/3 on MOS are 3XL and much higher.

https://i.imgur.com/ZTg4Zt5h.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/aHKN7drh.jpg

ETA: just measured what Ameriglo is calling "deck height" and I'm getting .320 for my setup.

[JSGlock34]

JSGlock34 thanks for that chart. Seems like it might depend on the plate? For instance, I'm using a 19.5 MOS gun, but with FCD plate. RM06, Ameriglo Gl-470's. Does the Lower 1/3 pretty well I think. These are called 2XL. The ones you're saying for lower 1/3 on MOS are 3XL and much higher.

ETA: just measured what Ameriglo is calling "deck height" and I'm getting .320 for my setup.
I don't think the dependency is really on the mounting plate; it's far more the choice of optic. DPP for example has a much higher deck height than the RMR.

The difference between the 2XL and 3XL deck heights is actually quite small - .022". It's actually the smallest jump between the five different deck heights. That said, you can probably get away with GL-429s on a MOS, and it looks like your 2XL is perfectly serviceable.

I'll note the Trijicon GL-201 (https://www.trijicon.com/products/details/gl201-c-600649) is also advertised as BUIS for a RMR, and measures the exact same as the GL-506/3XL sized sights (.451 rear/.365 front). And for whatever it's worth, I've seen this cited in a few places...

https://live.staticflickr.com/7881/46851925774_2ca27bd00c.jpg

[Doc_Glock]

I know.

My chances of being killed on my private range by a paper PF Q target are pretty slim though.

I would love to see how accurate you can be just using the optic like a ghost ring. I am guessing pretty dang good enough for most things out to 25 yards.

[Jay585]

I would love to see how accurate you can be just using the optic like a ghost ring. I am guessing pretty dang good enough for most things out to 25 yards.

Big fat nope on that.

At least, not in my experience

[SLUZENE]

Thank all of you for the feedback. Detailed descriptions and photos really help.

Current draft is: 19.5 MOS + CHPWS V4 MIL/LEO + RMR + Ameriglo GL-412-350 Front (2xl height) + Ameriglo GTR-209 Back (2xl height)+ Purple Sharpie on the rear vials. I can always nail polish the front sight if i want to play with an orange dot front iron sight. Based on the the posts from Lon and ASH556 i think the tritium vials will clear the deck of the RMR+v4 plate.

Simple and out of the way of the RMR sight picture in daylight and i'm looking forward to seeing how the irons work with and without the RMR dot at night.

Maybe i'll get the front sight machined to .115" at a local shop. 'cause reasons.

Wish the rear had a set screw, but i'll deal with it with some frequent nudging, red threadlocker and silver sharpie marks.

-----------------

https://ameriglo.com/uploads/2020AmeriGloCatalog_SinglePagesForWeb.pdf

FRONT GL-412-350 .350" height .125" width Black outline green trit
REAR GTR-209 .429" height .150" width Green trit/Black outline

[ASH556]

SLUZENE FWIW I have tens of thousands of rounds on Glocks with non-set screwed Ameriglo rears and no movement.

[theJanitor]

This would be primarily for the RMR going bad at night time, which of course, is probably pretty rare if i do my part to taking care of it while it rides EDC appendix. Daytime? I'm totally cool with black on black when used with RMR+MOS

I've currently got RMR-equipped pistols with both tritium and not. I have no preference, as I can't see the tritium anyway. But if your worry is seeing irons at night, using a weaponlight solves that. My opinion as a civilian, of course

[JSGlock34]

For what it's worth, here's the deck height on the GL506.

55527

[Erick Gelhaus]

Not quite what you asking about but ... with an Acro P1, the ATEI Shimsight and Ameri-Glo front sight combo sit very low and clear up the view quite nicely.

[ASH556]

I've currently got RMR-equipped pistols with both tritium and not. I have no preference, as I can't see the tritium anyway. But if your worry is seeing irons at night, using a weaponlight solves that. My opinion as a civilian, of course

Agree and that of several Leo and Mil friends.

[ASH556]

For what it's worth, here's the deck height on the GL506.

55527

Is that just coloring or a bevel cut down the side of that RMR?

[ASH556]

GL-470 deck height

55537

[JSGlock34]

So I decided to compare the GL470 and GL506 while using a RMR RM06 on a FCD plate. Like ASH556 posted, the GL470 cowitnesses quite nicely with this setup, and it is a .022" lower than the GL506. Not quite sure why Ameriglo steered folks towards the 3XL sight when the 2XL works quite well with the RMR, or why Trijicon went with the same 3XL height sights for their BUIS offering. The GL506 is a touch higher - it is hard to even notice the difference - and might be preferable if using a thicker aftermarket plate (the OEM and FCD plates are the same height). Given the choice using this setup, I'm inclined to give the nod to the GL470s and other 2XL height sights considering the small RMR window.

[HCountyGuy]

Here’s a G5.19MOS w/507c, CHPWS v3 plate and Ameriglo GL-429s.
55281

That looks pretty good. Is there a difference in plate thickness between the v3 and v4 CHPWS plates? If it's not significant I may run the same sights for my 19.5MOS w/507c

[Lon]

That looks pretty good. Is there a difference in plate thickness between the v3 and v4 CHPWS plates? If it's not significant I may run the same sights for my 19.5MOS w/507c

That’s a good question. Don’t know for sure, but @chpws should be able to tell you.

[SLUZENE]

SLUZENE FWIW I have tens of thousands of rounds on Glocks with non-set screwed Ameriglo rears and no movement.

That's really good to hear. I suppose some cases of that may be to someone with a really tight fit, but generally I don't see a downside to a rear set screw. Maybe it's not possible / less in smaller front to back sights like are needed on MOS pistols.

[SLUZENE]

Agree and that of several Leo and Mil friends.

I've not seen a consensus on night sights between CIV, CIV LEO or MIL regarding night sights. Many people, including Greg Ellifritz, Chuck Haggard and Craig Douglas seem to use them on carry guns last time I instagram/blog researched them. Last I checked, Paul Sharp runs fibers on his duty gun. I think Kyle Defoor uses straight black (his sights at Ameriglo) No consensus. At the end of the day, people should probably arrive at carry gun setup logically and objectively rather than emotionally. If someone is ticking that box, then great. I asked Craig in person too and he seems to still carry with warren tritiums.

http://pistol-training.com/archives/7668

I will say I think the whole can't see your sights then you can't see your target is completely incorrect. We don't live in a black and white world, both metaphorically or literally. I can easily see a person breaking through a glass back door with a porch light in a dark living room and aim easily with night sights. Not so much for my warren fiber optics. Illuminating myself in such a case to get more light on the target and help use my fiber optic sights may not be life changing, but I'm not seeing the point. I'd rather give verbal commands from concealment. /ninja

Same with some really dark parking lots. Bad guy could be under a light where I'm in a spot that's a little too dim to see my sights. Unless you want a such a thin sight that the custom/off the shelf solutions of tritium are too wide for your wants/needs, and cost is not an issue, generally I think tritium makes sense.

[ASH556]

I've not seen a consensus on night sights between CIV, CIV LEO or MIL regarding night sights. Many people, including Greg Ellifritz, Chuck Haggard and Craig Douglas seem to use them on carry guns last time I instagram/blog researched them. Last I checked, Paul Sharp runs fibers on his duty gun. I think Kyle Defoor uses straight black (his sights at Ameriglo) No consensus. At the end of the day, people should probably arrive at carry gun setup logically and objectively rather than emotionally. If someone is ticking that box, then great. I asked Craig in person too and he seems to still carry with warren tritiums.

http://pistol-training.com/archives/7668

I will say I think the whole can't see your sights then you can't see your target is completely incorrect. We don't live in a black and white world, both metaphorically or literally. I can easily see a person breaking through a glass back door with a porch light in a dark living room and aim easily with night sights. Not so much for my warren fiber optics. Illuminating myself in such a case to get more light on the target and help use my fiber optic sights may not be life changing, but I'm not seeing the point. I'd rather give verbal commands from concealment. /ninja

Same with some really dark parking lots. Bad guy could be under a light where I'm in a spot that's a little too dim to see my sights. Unless you want a such a thin sight that the custom/off the shelf solutions of tritium are too wide for your wants/needs, and cost is not an issue, generally I think tritium makes sense.

Without a dot I agree with tritium. I was speaking specifically to tritium on buis with a dot on a pistol.