Gun Sales during riots

[UNK]

During Covid gun sales went through the roof. I havent heard anything about the sales of guns and ammo currently but I would have to think that during this period of unrest at least for the affected areas there has to be a bump.

[Borderland]

During Covid gun sales went through the roof. I havent heard anything about the sales of guns and ammo currently but I would have to think that during this period of unrest at least for the affected areas there has to be a bump.

Some things are still not available from distributors because of the pandemic. I'm guessing the stores can't get a lot of what they would normally be able to order. Just a guess.

[Baldanders]

Some things are still not available from distributors because of the pandemic. I'm guessing the stores can't get a lot of what they would normally be able to order. Just a guess.

A nearby gun shop is out of Taurus G2 pistols and "they have no idea" when they can get more.

I saw a Chiappa knock-off of the m92 in their case. Most of tbe lower-priced stuff (Bersa, etc) they normally have was absent. They had many Glocks and Smith revolvers. So panic buyers now might be getting a better gun on average than a few months back?

I need to check with my friend who works at his dad's shop.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

Think about which side of the political 'divide' the new buyers might be. Gun world folk seem to think new owners will be on the righteous side of their politics.

That will be an empirical question.

[Borderland]

My dealers distributor is back-ordered on almost all 9mm Sigs. If I wanted one next week my dealer wouldn't be able to get it.

[fixer]

Every Academy I've been to in 5 towns is picked clean. I was lucky to find an 870 on the shelf. Bought it for birds and clays. Now I can't find any clays...

I've been through 3 buying panics and its hilarious that 92s are always the last to go.

[Borderland]

Think about which side of the political 'divide' the new buyers might be. Gun world folk seem to think new owners will be on the righteous side of their politics.

That will be an empirical question.

I'm thinking that riots and covid isn't going to change anyone's politics. It hasn't changed mine. :D

[Glenn E. Meyer]

That wasn't my point. I was commenting on an implicit assumption that new gun buyers are on one wonderful side of the political spectrum. That might be mistaken as society collapses. Throwing fireworks and even Molotov cocktails might just be a beginning if folks truly think they are oppressed or are nutty ol' anarchists of various stripes.

[UNK]

That wasn't my point. I was commenting on an implicit assumption that new gun buyers are on one wonderful side of the political spectrum. That might be mistaken as society collapses. Throwing fireworks and even Molotov cocktails might just be a beginning if folks truly think they are oppressed or are nutty ol' anarchists of various stripes.

Thats why we carry and own what we own.

[beenalongtime]

Thank you for the laugh!!!!!!!!!!!

The title, put the image of someone fighting through the rioting crowd, trying to get to and into the gun store, to buy a firearm.

[Arbninftry]

Well Hell!!!!! I guess my TRIARC-2011 custom order might take longer.... oh damn. Well fack... My Noveske and KAC will just get lonely.... If you want something now... I here JodyH is having a sale..

Seriously... I guess ammo and 400-500 stuff will always be harder to find in times of distress....

[Sero Sed Serio]

I've been through 3 buying panics and its hilarious that 92s are always the last to go.

I work a few a few hours a week at a mid-sized gun shop, and we got hit with the panic like everyone else. Even with people desperate for something, anything to hold off the hoards of Rona Zombies, the M9A3 is still there. No interest in the Springfield MC Operator, either. I was also amused at the number of people who came in in urgent need of their first and only gun, asked for a Glock 19, then shrugged off the 4 or 5 P10Cs we had lined up in an otherwise empty case.


I'm thinking that riots and covid isn't going to change anyone's politics. It hasn't changed mine. :D

Just today I got a text from one of the members of my networking group asking about the CCW class I teach, as she and her husband have decided to get a gun "due to the unrest and crazy times we're in." Up until now I would classify her as pretty strongly anti-gun, but not to the point where we haven't been able to discuss things civilly. She did say that she only wants her husband to attend the class because she "doesn't want to touch a firearm."

Only working 4 hours a week I didn't encounter any of it, but all of my co-workers anecdotally had stories about previously anti-gun people buying firearms, including one woman who vowed that she "will be returning this gun" when everything calms down, even after being repeatedly told that's not how any of this works...

Unfortunately I was told to stay home this week after playing the 6 Degrees of COVID Exposure (no symptoms, so hopefully it ends up being much ado about nothing), so I have no idea how the riots are affecting things. However I'm not optimistic that I could wander in and grab 9mm or .223/5.56, and I doubt our Glock stock is high. That Beretta is probably still sitting there, though...

[0ddl0t]

I wonder why gun stores haven't been looted?



PS: Kicking myself for recently selling my ruger stock...

[Kanye Wyoming]

I have a good friend and professional colleague in Texas. Except for being pretty pro 2A, her politics are SJW ridiculous.

She texts me this afternoon: Hi Kanye. Can you send me the link to the online bullet store with the ammo you suggested?

[fixer]

I work a few a few hours a week at a mid-sized gun shop, and we got hit with the panic like everyone else. Even with people desperate for something, anything to hold off the hoards of Rona Zombies, the M9A3 is still there. No interest in the Springfield MC Operator, either. I was also amused at the number of people who came in in urgent need of their first and only gun, asked for a Glock 19, then shrugged off the 4 or 5 P10Cs we had lined up in an otherwise empty case.

Surprised about the MC operator. Yeah I'm still seeing M9A3s.

[Doc_Glock]

Maricopa County FFLs got an email from ATF to be sure to have a good inventory of their firearms in case they are lost in riots. Did ATF send this out nationally as well?

"FFL Alert - FFL Notification for FFLs in Maricopa County, AZ
This is an important message from the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives. Possible civil unrest in our area may result in looting of businesses. The ATF reminds you to remain vigilant and to take appropriate steps to secure both your firearms inventory and your required records. Please report all suspicious persons or activity to your local police department. Additionally, notify ATF at if you find any of your firearms missing, lost or stolen or if you are a victim of an attempted burglary of your business."

[willie]

Mostly first time buyers picked my local gun shop clean. Big demand for Glocks because of name recognition. CZ's flew out the door. Sig's and HK's followed. So did all the cheap Taurus models. Security shotguns and AR's followed. Ammo by the case was popular. Oddly, he got in a large stock of Federal Premium 45 ACP ammo. To his credit, he is not jacking up prices.

[UNK]

I havent been following the riots too closely so I may have missed it.
Have any residential areas been hit? Were any hit in Furgeson?
Im thinking the rioters either dont want to suffer the grief of burning down peoples houses or they dont want to get into a real fight. My inclination is to the latter.

[41magfan]

Maricopa County FFLs got an email from ATF to be sure to have a good inventory of their firearms in case they are lost in riots. Did ATF send this out nationally as well?

"FFL Alert - FFL Notification for FFLs in Maricopa County, AZ
This is an important message from the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives. Possible civil unrest in our area may result in looting of businesses. The ATF reminds you to remain vigilant and to take appropriate steps to secure both your firearms inventory and your required records. Please report all suspicious persons or activity to your local police department. Additionally, notify ATF at if you find any of your firearms missing, lost or stolen or if you are a victim of an attempted burglary of your business."

Yes - they routinely issue such alerts.

My SIL works PT at a large gun store and they attempted to enter the place last night with a stolen car. The bollards worked.

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/640x480q90/922/2d4bhb.jpg (https://imageshack.com/i/pm2d4bhbj)

[Stephanie B]

Maricopa County FFLs got an email from ATF to be sure to have a good inventory of their firearms in case they are lost in riots. Did ATF send this out nationally as well?

"FFL Alert - FFL Notification for FFLs in Maricopa County, AZ
This is an important message from the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives. Possible civil unrest in our area may result in looting of businesses. The ATF reminds you to remain vigilant and to take appropriate steps to secure both your firearms inventory and your required records. Please report all suspicious persons or activity to your local police department. Additionally, notify ATF at if you find any of your firearms missing, lost or stolen or if you are a victim of an attempted burglary of your business."

Do they mention keeping an inventory list off-site? ("Dear ATF, the inventory list and the Form 4473s were in a filing cabinet in the backroom office at the shop. The building burned to the cellar hole. Sorry about that.")

[farscott]

I was in my LGS for the first time in three weeks as I had to pay to have a dozen firearms be shipped to be sold. The inventory state was, shall we say, different. There were basically no "tactical" shotguns of any sort unless .410 was the order of the day. The small revolvers were gone. Plenty of Glocks and AR rifles and pistols.

Ammo was interesting. No 9x19, but plenty of .22 LR and .45 ACP. 12-gauge was down to dove loads, but 5.56 had tons of variety.

[HCountyGuy]

Went to the preferred LGS yesterday and they were slammed. Mostly folks wanting to use the range though so the gun sale counter wasn’t too busy. Most of the AR-15 patterned rifles were gone, but the pistol inventory was still pretty healthy.

[45dotACP]

Looked like there was a line out the door at my LGS, and so again I am happy that I have components and ammo enough to weather this nonsense.

Plenty of left wing folk getting to be awful fond of the shoulder thing that goes up...

Sent from my moto g(6) using Tapatalk

[rd62]

Was in mine on Sat. Range was busy but store was not. Ammo was there (9mm, 5.56, etc), they had ARs on the walls and handguns in the case. Glock, Sig, STI, Wilson, etc.

[jeep45238]

Our range was steady yesterday. We did over 19k in sales with 4 of us working the counter. Had every caliber and we're getting our inventory variety back, but not everything is there (plus, distributors have increased the prices).

A local store got hit overnight and all inventory was stolen. We secured all ours in our safes, and moved empty ones to block all but two doors. Employees stayed behind to pull security on a volunteer basis, as yes this stuff is insured, but these aren't sneakers either (we have the largest inventory in the area).

[Mitch]

Looked like there was a line out the door at my LGS, and so again I am happy that I have components and ammo enough to weather this nonsense.

Plenty of left wing folk getting to be awful fond of the shoulder thing that goes up...

Sent from my moto g(6) using Tapatalk

I’m wondering if this is going to change some attitudes about the 2nd amendment.

Nobody needs an AR15 huh? That didn’t age well.

[TQP]

Our range was steady yesterday. We did over 19k in sales with 4 of us working the counter. Had every caliber and we're getting our inventory variety back, but not everything is there (plus, distributors have increased the prices).

A local store got hit overnight and all inventory was stolen. We secured all ours in our safes, and moved empty ones to block all but two doors. Employees stayed behind to pull security on a volunteer basis, as yes this stuff is insured, but these aren't sneakers either (we have the largest inventory in the area).

Happened in Columbus Friday night. It doesn't seem to have made the news so I can't include a link.

[Paul D]

Maricopa County FFLs got an email from ATF to be sure to have a good inventory of their firearms in case they are lost in riots. Did ATF send this out nationally as well?

"FFL Alert - FFL Notification for FFLs in Maricopa County, AZ
This is an important message from the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives. Possible civil unrest in our area may result in looting of businesses. The ATF reminds you to remain vigilant and to take appropriate steps to secure both your firearms inventory and your required records. Please report all suspicious persons or activity to your local police department. Additionally, notify ATF at if you find any of your firearms missing, lost or stolen or if you are a victim of an attempted burglary of your business."

I got a robocall last night with the same sort of message from a 202 area code. That was weird. Maybe because I have a C&R is the reason that message came.

[Kanye Wyoming]

55220

[Medusa]

The above, if it it’s true speaks to a sad undersell of 2a rights to non gun owners who would benefit from exercising their 2a rights, rather than anything like gun owning causing a trump vote.

Turns out the rights belong to everyone not just those of whom we approve.

[BehindBlueI's]

The above, if it it’s true speaks to a sad undersell of 2a rights to non gun owners who would benefit from exercising their 2a rights, rather than anything like gun owning causing a trump vote.

Turns out the rights belong to everyone not just those of whom we approve.

You appear to value your 2nd amendment rights. Did you vote for Trump?

Not everyone is a single issue voter and I doubt that "non gun owners" who convert suddenly decide that's their issue. My ex-wife modified her stance on guns over the years but wouldn't vote for anyone who would restrict abortion access, that was her "one issue".

Anyway, as long as you believe the NYT it's real: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/10/05/upshot/gun-ownership-partisan-divide.html Trump also wins 48/50 states when it's divided into "rural vs urban" and "working class whites vs everyone else". Clinton, on the other hand, wins every state when it's "athiests vs everyone else".

Trump just needs to get everyone into a small country church and he'll win by a landslide.

[Nephrology]

You appear to value your 2nd amendment rights. Did you vote for Trump?

Not everyone is a single issue voter and I doubt that "non gun owners" who convert suddenly decide that's their issue. My ex-wife modified her stance on guns over the years but wouldn't vote for anyone who would restrict abortion access, that was her "one issue".

Anyway, as long as you believe the NYT it's real: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/10/05/upshot/gun-ownership-partisan-divide.html Trump also wins 48/50 states when it's divided into "rural vs urban" and "working class whites vs everyone else". Clinton, on the other hand, wins every state when it's "athiests vs everyone else".

Trump just needs to get everyone into a small country church and he'll win by a landslide.

I assume when they say 'not enough data' for households in Wyoming without guns, it is because they couldn't find any.

[UNK]

The above, if it it’s true speaks to a sad undersell of 2a rights to non gun owners who would benefit from exercising their 2a rights, rather than anything like gun owning causing a trump vote.

Turns out the rights belong to everyone not just those of whom we approve.

Who is “We Approve”? This would indicate there are groups that some people would not approve of having guns. I sure hope you are not making “we approve” a PF issue.

[Wyoming Shooter]

I assume when they say 'not enough data' for households in Wyoming without guns, it is because they couldn't find any.

I've lived here a very long time. Many of my friends are liberals who I presume voted for Clinton. They have guns. Households without a gun are few and far between (pun intended). ELN

[Nephrology]

I've lived here a very long time. Many of my friends are liberals who I presume voted for Clinton. They have guns. Households without a gun are few and far between (pun intended). ELN

One of many reasons I've long thought about relocating up north :D

Not in the cards any time soon, but a man can dream...

[Medusa]

That’s a rhetorical question, right? Of course I didn’t vote for trump. Nor will I, ever - not for him, nor his apologists and enablers. Over my time here I’ve said why, have repeatedly stated single issue voting is a luxury I don’t have and have never had. There are many like me....starting with my wife. All of this is ground I’ve covered here, more than once. Abortion is just one of the issues we care about. We’re also big on equal protection of law, separation of church and state, and lgbt rights, being two women. So yeah.

i have also said here why I train and carry, that I’ve been shot at and assaulted, and that my wife and I have been assaulted and harassed together. So yes, 2a rights are important to me. Very important. But so are the other things, like when we lived in a state that amended its constitution to ban same sex marriage AND domestic partnerships. Not a gun problem. One doesn’t soon forget which party tends to advocate for such things, and why.




You appear to value your 2nd amendment rights. Did you vote for Trump?

Not everyone is a single issue voter and I doubt that "non gun owners" who convert suddenly decide that's their issue. My ex-wife modified her stance on guns over the years but wouldn't vote for anyone who would restrict abortion access, that was her "one issue".

Anyway, as long as you believe the NYT it's real: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/10/05/upshot/gun-ownership-partisan-divide.html Trump also wins 48/50 states when it's divided into "rural vs urban" and "working class whites vs everyone else". Clinton, on the other hand, wins every state when it's "athiests vs everyone else".

Trump just needs to get everyone into a small country church and he'll win by a landslide.

[Borderland]

I assume when they say 'not enough data' for households in Wyoming without guns, it is because they couldn't find any.

https://i.ibb.co/TPFfs1m/wyoming.jpg (https://imgbb.com/)


Census worker in Wyoming.

[blues]

https://i.ibb.co/TPFfs1m/wyoming.jpg (https://imgbb.com/)


Census worker in Wyoming.

The picture is obviously a fake. Her hair isn't blowing, the brush is still...they're not foolin' anyone.

[Borderland]

The picture is obviously a fake. Her hair isn't blowing, the brush is still...they're not foolin' anyone.

Don't get blown away in Wyoming.

[BehindBlueI's]

That’s a rhetorical question, right? Of course I didn’t vote for trump. Nor will I, ever - not for him, nor his apologists and enablers.

So given that perspective, how does that map indicate either
sad undersell of 2a rights to non gun owners or
Turns out the rights belong to everyone not just those of whom we approve.

[Medusa]

I can play too. Was it in fact a rhetorical question? Or you honestly just have no idea whom you’re talking to? Did you honestly have no idea if I’d voted for trump?

The map would look different if more of those who vote against trump and his ilk were gun owners. I believe many on the left would benefit from exercising those rights. If and when they do, gun ownership won’t be seen or even hinted at as a proxy or correlate for voting red. One assumes the point of the graphic was to assert such a correlation and to invite inferences from it.

I made the comment about the rights belonging to everyone because in this thread and at least one other, I see a repeated implication by some members that there is an inherent rather than an accidental correlation between firearm ownership and voting red. I am a small counter example to that, and i think if more on the left would become gun owners, recognizing the importance and real value of the right, the number of counter examples would increase...a lot.

[TGS]

and i think if more on the left would become gun owners, recognizing the importance and real value of the right,

Well, I think that's the problem there. The values held by the left are incongruent with the values, and theory, of firearms ownership. To put it bluntly: diametrically opposed. That's a truth that is isolated from judgement and whether anyone thinks good or bad things about the left's values.

[Medusa]

Sure, just as values on the right are inconsistent with freedom from religion, separation of church and state, equal protection of law, and self determination. Eta -I don’t believe this, I’m just playing the same game you are.

You are in fact mistaken, and the values above are ones we can hold on either side. Stamp your foot and say otherwise if you’d like, it won’t change the fact that there have been armed people on both sides for as long as there has been a United States.

i have the right to defend myself. So do you. That’s always been true and it always will be.

[blues]

Well, I think that's the problem there. The values held by the left are incongruent with the values, and theory, of firearms ownership. To put it bluntly: diametrically opposed. That's a truth that is isolated from judgement and whether anyone thinks good or bad things about the left's values.

Honestly, I don't know how you can support that statement absent the use of sophistry. Simply defining "the left" alone is a monumental task.

"The Left" is not a monolith, to my knowledge. But you can couch any argument in terms of your own choosing.

I'm sure that as a pretty confirmed moderate I hold dear values from both the left and the right. I find "labels" excessively confining.

No one side has a monopoly on what is true, right and correct. Feel free to fire away. I'll respond if I'm not too lazy.

[TGS]

Sure, just as values on the right are inconsistent with freedom from religion, separation of church and state, equal protection of law, and self determination. Eta -I don’t believe this, I’m just playing the same game you are.


I would actually say that statement is mostly true.

*shrug*

[blues]

I would actually say that statement is mostly true.

*shrug*

ETA: The following is a non sequitur since it is a response to a response not made to me... I acknowledge the error...

Okay. And anyone who doesn't completely go it alone and has insurance, mutual funds or pools money with neighbors to pay for common tasks is a socialist.

There's just no hard and fast rule for where the lines intersect and where they diverge.

To paraphrase what a very stable genius once said, there are "very fine people" on both sides.

[TGS]

No one side has a monopoly on what is true, right and correct. Feel free to fire away.



To paraphrase what a very stable genius once said, there are "very fine people" on both sides.

I don't know why you've brought this concept up twice now when the first post I made on the subject stated that I wasn't making a judgement about the values held being good/bad.

[blues]

I don't know why you've brought this concept up twice now when the first post I made on the subject stated that I wasn't making a judgement about the values held being good/bad.

Pardon the intrusion, sir, if I offend. I suppose I read a negative connotation into your dismissal of things antithetical to the left. I beg your leave and shall endeavor to offend no further.


Sorry for the confusion, TGS, I was taking your comment to Ms. Medusa as a response to my post earlier. The error is mine.

[Medusa]

I would actually say that statement is mostly true.

*shrug*
All right, so let’s explore what happens if we take my “for the sake of argument” statement about conservative values as true. What implications can we draw?

That only persons following the “right” religion, who do not support equal protection of law, freedom from religion, and self determination have the correct mindset and propositional attitudes for ownership of firearms? If you believe this is an incorrect implication or inference, what makes it incorrect?

[BehindBlueI's]

I can play too. Was it in fact a rhetorical question? Or you honestly just have no idea whom you’re talking to? Did you honestly have no idea if I’d voted for trump?

The map would look different if more of those who vote against trump and his ilk were gun owners. I believe many on the left would benefit from exercising those rights. If and when they do, gun ownership won’t be seen or even hinted at as a proxy or correlate for voting red. One assumes the point of the graphic was to assert such a correlation and to invite inferences from it.

I made the comment about the rights belonging to everyone because in this thread and at least one other, I see a repeated implication by some members that there is an inherent rather than an accidental correlation between firearm ownership and voting red. I am a small counter example to that, and i think if more on the left would become gun owners, recognizing the importance and real value of the right, the number of counter examples would increase...a lot.

I've yet to see anyone here state or imply that the 2nd amendment only applies to those who believe as they do. I've seen plenty of people note that voting for a Democrat is typically a vote against 2nd amendment rights, though, and largely agree despite the fact I'm a split ticket voter myself and didn't vote for a POTUS candidate at all last election because they were both shit. I'm certainly not at all sure how you managed to read that into the map, but my interest has waned at this point.

[TGS]

All right, so let’s explore what happens if we take my “for the sake of argument” statement about conservative values as true. What implications can we draw?

That only persons following the “right” religion, who do not support equal protection of law, freedom from religion, and self determination have the correct mindset and propositional attitudes for ownership of firearms? If you believe this is an incorrect implication or inference, what makes it incorrect?

My observation is similar to BehindBlueI's above.....not necessarily that they have the "correct" mindset and are worthy or not, if that's what you mean.

Thing is regardless of any mutual mental masturbation we want to get into here, people on the left own less guns than people on the right, and it's not because of their lack of economic means to procure them, or living in places where guns are outright banned, or some medical malady on the left that makes people allergic to steel. It's because of their value set as an aggregate population, and guns not fitting into those values.

[Medusa]

So you didn’t see TGS’ post, or don’t follow the reasoning, or what? I’m genuinely sorry to hear your interest has waned, but some things can’t be helped.

Sure, voting democrat is typically a vote on restrictions to 2a rights. I’ve acknowledged this repeatedly. It does trouble me - a lot; but as i have also said repeatedly, (1) there are a large number of problems firearms can’t solve - i.e the vast majority of them; and (2) hypothetically, it’s easier to sneak a weapon than it is to deal with government sponsored unequal treatment and unequal protection. Say you had a domestic partner and you weren’t allowed to marry or have any legal status, and she was incapacitated and hospitalized and you weren’t allowed to visit her because you had no legal status, and she died without you. Guns don’t fix that. Never will. And that’s not a hypothetical; there were a number of such cases before the Supreme Court decision ; I myself had to carefully draft legal documents to protect us had that ever happened to us.


I've yet to see anyone here state or imply that the 2nd amendment only applies to those who believe as they do. I've seen plenty of people note that voting for a Democrat is typically a vote against 2nd amendment rights, though, and largely agree despite the fact I'm a split ticket voter myself and didn't vote for a POTUS candidate at all last election because they were both shit. I'm certainly not at all sure how you managed to read that into the map, but my interest has waned at this point.

[Medusa]

If you talk to people on the left who own guns, especially those who carry, you’ll know they don’t wish to have someone else’s will imposed on them- same as anyone else who carries. If the correlation between firearms ownership and political values is, as i believe, more accidental than inherent, then it can be changed. And that’s what I’m interested in trying to do.


My observation is similar to BehindBlueI's above.....not necessarily that they have the "correct" mindset and are worthy or not, if that's what you mean.

Thing is regardless of any mutual mental masturbation we want to get into here, people on the left own less guns than people on the right, and it's not because of their lack of economic means to procure them, or living in places where guns are outright banned, or some medical malady on the left that makes people allergic to steel. It's because of their value set as an aggregate population, and guns not fitting into those values.

[Borderland]

Make a list of 5 issues that are most important to you. Assign a value to each item on that list from 1 to 5. No two issues can have the same value. Put them in order with 5 being at the top of the list and 1 being at the bottom. Now score the candidates. If the candidate is pro RKBA and you have that value as 4 then they get 4 points. If you are pro legal immigration and the candidate isn't then they get no points. The candidate will usually fall on one side of an issue or the other. If they have no position on an issue you can't give them any points.

That shouldn't be too difficult unless you happen to be a single issue voter or you always vote D or R regardless of the issues. Personally, I'm all over the board when I vote the issues. If you've ever handicapped a horse race you'll understand what I'm talking about.

[Borderland]

Back to the OP.

https://www.fool.com/investing/2020/06/01/why-sturm-ruger-stock-shot-up-125-this-morning.aspx

This is probably at least one indication that things aren't going real well in the country right now and the condition isn't going to improve any time soon.

[JDD]

Well, I think that's the problem there. The values held by the left are incongruent with the values, and theory, of firearms ownership. To put it bluntly: diametrically opposed. That's a truth that is isolated from judgement and whether anyone thinks good or bad things about the left's values.

Counterpoint: I strongly feel that this is absolutely not the case, and you know that I say this in the spirit of our personal friendship.

There is a shocking disconnect between the actual words and ideals of our founding documents, and many of the actions of the people who most strongly advocate for our 2nd amendment.

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness..."

The 2nd is a bastion against tyranny, and a reservation of force under the control of civilians, to avoid a monopoly of government violence. The 2nd is a means for the weak, the oppressed, and minorities to ensure their rights are not trampled by fascism and totalitarianism. Right now there are prominent, pro 2a "small government" politicians suggesting - without censure by their peers - that troops should be used to restore order - that "no quarter" should be given as they violently establish "total domination." Americans have been getting shot by troops while protesting and busting up privately owned and corporate property since the 1770's - its what we do.

Every one of my leftist views is derived from and built around the core concepts that are outlined in the bill of rights. It's not just the 2nd, its all of them. The constitution is there to protect the minority from the majority. The religious bits in the 1st are not just there to protect the faith that 70% of Americans believe in, they are also there to keep that 70% from using their majority to the detriment of the folks who are a part of the niche faith communities. The places that keep bouncing their head off this concept, oddly enough, tend to be conservative. I can keep going because you can work your way through the whole bill of rights like this, but I am sure you get the idea.

I am not a 2a "leftist" because I believe that a socialist government should force everyone to get in line, and take care of me while I also hypocritically hold onto my guns because I like them. I am a staunch supporter of the 2nd because it is congruent with my belief that everyone - even the folks who are weird and "woke" that I don't understand cause they come from a really really different background or use funky pronouns - is equally a citizen, deserves equal rights, and most importantly: is personally responsible as a citizen for advocating for and exercising those rights.

Where I think many of the folks on the left miss the bus, is they see the weapons as a tool that majorities use to crush the rights of their fellow citizens, as opposed to a means of defense and leveling the playing field. They have forgotten that an armed populace is handled very differently than an unarmed one. I think between Hong Kong and the recent Coronavirus protests, and the contrast with the current round will be some object lessons. I hope they are lessons that don't result in me being shot while working. I also hope that the lesson that is learned is not that the 2a is only being exercised by supporters of the government that skews authoritarian, and that that the amendment has failed as a protection and should be removed.

Perhaps this is a discussion we should have over a beer, but aside from my last paragraph, I don't think that I am out in left field. I also note, in just about any other developed country in the world, my politics would fall to the right of center on the spectrum.

I think the best thing that could possibly happen for our politics, is for folks to realize that 2A supporters are not single issue voters for R. It means Republicans take us for granted and give us nothing, and it means Democrats can use attacking 2A as a wedge issue and a campaign plank without concern about losing undecided or moderate voters. I don't know about you, but am feeling pretty distinctly pissed about the absolute lack of progress on the 2a front when we had a Republican Presidency, House, and Senate. Not to mention, a conservative supreme court that has been distinctly un-supportive about hearing some of the most important cases, even after the installation of multiple new justices. Conservative politicians take our votes, pay us lip service, and then use their political capital to pursue other goals and ends that have nothing to do with gun rights.

[blues]

I don't think that I am out in left field

I see what you did there. Nice summation, JDD. If ever I get an evening with you two down the road , I'll be buying the first few rounds. But T is going to have to drink something with umbrellas or pink in color. ;)

[Medusa]

I agree entirely on all points, except one - freedoms of religion also explicitly include and must always include those who do not hold to religious belief at all, whether they are atheists, agnostics, or whatever else.


Counterpoint: I strongly feel that this is absolutely not the case, and you know that I say this in the spirit of our personal friendship.

There is a shocking disconnect between the actual words and ideals of our founding documents, and many of the actions of the people who most strongly advocate for our 2nd amendment.

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness..."

The 2nd is a bastion against tyranny, and a reservation of force under the control of civilians, to avoid a monopoly of government violence. The 2nd is a means for the weak, the oppressed, and minorities to ensure their rights are not trampled by fascism and totalitarianism. Right now there are prominent, pro 2a "small government" politicians suggesting - without censure by their peers - that troops should be used to restore order - that "no quarter" should be given as they violently establish "total domination." Americans have been getting shot by troops while protesting and busting up privately owned and corporate property since the 1770's - its what we do.

Every one of my leftist views is derived from and built around the core concepts that are outlined in the bill of rights. It's not just the 2nd, its all of them. The constitution is there to protect the minority from the majority. The religious bits in the 1st are not just there to protect the faith that 70% of Americans believe in, they are also there to keep that 70% from using their majority to the detriment of the folks who are a part of the niche faith communities. The places that keep bouncing their head off this concept, oddly enough, tend to be conservative. I can keep going because you can work your way through the whole bill of rights like this, but I am sure you get the idea.

I am not a 2a "leftist" because I believe that a socialist government should force everyone to get in line, and take care of me while I also hypocritically hold onto my guns because I like them. I am a staunch supporter of the 2nd because it is congruent with my belief that everyone - even the folks who are weird and "woke" that I don't understand cause they come from a really really different background or use funky pronouns - is equally a citizen, deserves equal rights, and most importantly: is personally responsible as a citizen for advocating for and exercising those rights.

Where I think many of the folks on the left miss the bus, is they see the weapons as a tool that majorities use to crush the rights of their fellow citizens, as opposed to a means of defense and leveling the playing field. They have forgotten that an armed populace is handled very differently than an unarmed one. I think between Hong Kong and the recent Coronavirus protests, and the contrast with the current round will be some object lessons. I hope they are lessons that don't result in me being shot while working. I also hope that the lesson that is learned is not that the 2a is only being exercised by supporters of the government that skews authoritarian, and that that the amendment has failed as a protection and should be removed.

Perhaps this is a discussion we should have over a beer, but aside from my last paragraph, I don't think that I am out in left field. I also note, in just about any other developed country in the world, my politics would fall to the right of center on the spectrum.

I think the best thing that could possibly happen for our politics, is for folks to realize that 2A supporters are not single issue voters for R. It means Republicans take us for granted and give us nothing, and it means Democrats can use attacking 2A as a wedge issue and a campaign plank without concern about losing undecided or moderate voters. I don't know about you, but am feeling pretty distinctly pissed about the absolute lack of progress on the 2a front when we had a Republican Presidency, House, and Senate. Not to mention, a conservative supreme court that has been distinctly un-supportive about hearing some of the most important cases, even after the installation of multiple new justices. Conservative politicians take our votes, pay us lip service, and then use their political capital to pursue other goals and ends that have nothing to do with gun rights.

[WobblyPossum]

JDD fantastic post. I agree whole heartedly.

[JDD]

I see what you did there. Nice summation, JDD. If ever I get an evening with you two down the road , I'll be buying the first few rounds. But T is going to have to drink something with umbrellas or pink in color. ;)

Its a plan, I'll wear my Obamao tee-shirt. https://www.csmonitor.com/World/Global-News/2009/1113/china-bans-obamao-shirt-fearing-offense-to-obama

[JDD]

I agree entirely on all points, except one - freedoms of religion also explicitly include and must always include those who do not hold to religious belief at all, whether they are atheists, agnostics, or whatever else.

Good catch. I mean, I was gonna throw them in there, but we already have one as President, so how oppressed can they be?

[JBP55]

Glocks are in very short supply locally.

[Kanye Wyoming]

55273


55275

[Medusa]

I’m shocked. You don’t believe he’s sincere ? That he’s just a panderer? Well I never.

In all seriousness though, I meant what I said, and the ways in which there are differential protections under law are proliferating.

[41magfan]

Yes - they routinely issue such alerts.

My SIL works PT at a large gun store and they attempted to enter the place last night with a stolen car. The bollards worked.

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/640x480q90/922/2d4bhb.jpg (https://imageshack.com/i/pm2d4bhbj)

I don't know the details but they got in last night ..... 30+ guns in the wrong hands as a result.

[blues]

I don't know the details but they got in last night ..... 30+ guns in the wrong hands as a result.

Sorry to read this.