CT State Police No longer uses 1911

[CerTac]

I'm Christopher Provost, the guy who designed and built those guns of which there were only 40 Qty. I could go into a lengthy story about the SPTU and how fubared they are, but I won't because I retired from the Thin Blue Line. But EVERYTHING you saw at a Pat Mac was NOT what was delivered to SPTU in June of 2008. To make a HUGE story short, instead of coming to me, they "thought" they could play Kitchen Table Gunsmith and do their own modifications to firearms they were "allowed" to purchase from the State of CT roughly in 2013 (?). The serial number SPTU 001 (upgraded to Mark V standards) is STILL in the hands of the now retired team leader and to paraphrase my friend "that PISTOL was the ONLY thing that WORKED every time I NEEDED it!" And he STILL has it! That was the Mark I Series. We were under contract to produce 5 pistols a year and UPGRADE ALL of the pistols as they had done some crazy things NEVER seen before on a 1911. EXAMPLE: One Trooper left his pistol, SPTU 033, on top of his cruiser and drove down I-95 at speed where it was thrown from the vehicle and was subsequently run over by several tractor trailers until a driver SAW it was a pistol, braved traffic, called the State and turned it in. It NEEDED work, but the State didn't want to pay. To bring this to a conclusion, I will NEVER do work with the STATE AGAIN. They broke every ASPECT of the contract. We delivered EARLY and ON BUDGET only to be investigated because someone on the inside was WORKING FOR GLOCK! When Glock didn't get the contract, Glock was NOT HAPPY. So, stories were told and the team leader and I were investigated at a cost MORE than what it was to PRODUCE THE FIREARMS, MAGAZINES AND ALL ACCESSORIES NEEDED.

I trained them for 5 days on the range where they PROMPTLY won the CT SWAT CHALLENGE.......and then I was struck down with a medical issue. I SOLD my remaining frames to my brother from a Danish Mother Alex Zimmermann of Guncrafter Industries. He built "his" version of the Big DOG pistol and called it the AMERICAN after me since he was Danish. Quite frankly my physicians didn't know if I'd live, so why NOT sell the frames to him......and then the Barbara Streisand started where folks thought it was a GI design.

I designed the ORIGINAL 8 round magazine which Derek Dibble of MetalForm produced. Mr. Dibble Sold the company and I wasn't going to purchase the inferior product THE NEW OWNERS wanted to produce with my logo on it so they SOLD them to Ed Brown who named them the 8 Pack. I went to CheckMate and we worked together to design the Ultimate Fighting Magazine. Unfortunately, I was still ill as Tommy the owner of Checkmate worked to produce the tooling. Tommy passed prematurely after a meeting during summertime and my health took another turn for the worse. I pretty much fell off the globe in 2008 and have finally resurfaced 14 years later. I'm NOT DEAD YET! In the meantime we're up to the Mark V series of DOG guns where EVERYTHING is my design, right down to the sights! In fact if you look at American Handgunner Magazine from this past winter, you'll see where Guncrafter Industries uses some MY PRODUCTS in his new series of pistols. As I said, Alex and I are family. We just live in different parts of the country.

I hope that sheds a sliver of light upon the situation. As anyone who knows me will have told you. You could have reached out at anytime and even from a hospital bed, I would have taken the time to speak with you.

[LittleLebowski]

I saw the report, but I don't think that this is spam, folks.

[Duke]

Okay..

[Grey]

I saw the report, but I don't think that this is spam, folks.

So... wtf is this? Sorry, genuinely confused regarding what this post is supposed to be...

[5pins]

I'm guessing Pat Mac dissed him? :confused:

[JTQ]

The post does seem odd and rambling, but I do remember the CheckMate CerTac magazines, though the MetalForm connection was before my time on gun forums. They were one of the top 1911 magazines available, but dropped off the map suddenly. This does put some perspective on their disappearance.

[CerTac]

Sir, it was my response to someone claiming the product I delivered to the CT SPTU was of substandard quality.
The REASON they couldn't do "kitchen table" gunsmithing is because they didn't know the "special" aspects I was required to design into the firearm. Technically the frame was OVERsized in certain areas to give added strength. When I was asked to come into the project, the SPTU had samples from EVERY major and minor manufacturer with cards on them with the EXACT number of rounds fired AND how and why it broke. They lined up every gun on the range benches and asked me a simple question: "can you do better?" I designed and built from start to finish in 18 months! I'll post pics of the boys on training days if necessary, but I don't think I should have to. But, I will post pics of the new Mark V edition if allowed. I'm not here to make waves, I just didn't like the fact the Pistols taken to a Pat Mac class were NOT what we BUILD and NOT representative of the quality of MY PRODUCT. And the fact I finally have the health to actually respond to Barbara Streisand that's been floating around the web for YEARS.

Just because it's a 1911 DOESN'T mean you can just "drop in" parts.

Very Respectfully,

[TGS]

what?

ETA: Dude, you might want to take a hard reset and start over in a more coherent manner. We are not living in your head; you just came out of left field rambling mid-conversation about shit none of us have a clue what you're talking about.

[JTQ]

Sir, it was my response to someone claiming the product I delivered to the CT SPTU was of substandard quality.
Is that on a thread on this forum? If so, could you link to the thread so we could have some context?

[jetfire]

Dear mods: please let this one play out, I am having a weird week and I need the entertainment, okay?

[MGW]

https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?36518-The-Art-and-Science-of-Keeping-Your-1911-Running/page15

Post 144. He addresses it later in the thread.

[CerTac]

Sir,

It was in the Art and Science of Keeping your 1911 Running in the area of post #144. I hope that clears this up a tad.

Very Respectfully,

[Grey]

Well that makes a whole lot more sense now that we know what this post was all about...

[LockedBreech]

I'm grinding my brain-clutch reading this before coffee but okay, we now have a context thread, here we go.

[Duke]

Yea but post 144 in that other thread talks about fmj rounds touching the slide stop -
Which we know Can happen with various bullet shapes and differ OAL

Hardly worth the attention whoring of the OP

No offense


A single stack 9mm not working in a class isn’t like earth shattering news.


And who gives a shit what CT used

[CerTac]

Sir,

My point merely stated that's NOT what the firearms were when delivered. Those pistols could chew up ANYTHING and spit lead ACCURATELY making head shots at 100 yards. Someone with the gravitas of Pat Mac doesn't need to have bad info presented by young troopers who think they're now the greatest SWAT operator because they can run up and down the mountain behind the range. I take GREAT pride in my designs and my work. My mags were first accepted by the FBIs HRT Team. They last thing they saw before a call out was my logo as it entered their pistol. The reason I remember this so well is because I received a phone call and was told to wait. I heard a round fired. The man indicated that was the 3O thousandth round fired from my mag and that they were ordering a substantial quantity. I'm sorry if I take pride in my work. I guess I'm old school that way.

[Duke]

Sir,

My point merely stated that's NOT what the firearms were when delivered. Those pistols could chew up ANYTHING and spit lead ACCURATELY making head shots at 100 yards. Someone with the gravitas of Pat Mac doesn't need to have bad info presented by young troopers who think they're now the greatest SWAT operator because they can run up and down the mountain behind the range. I take GREAT pride in my designs and my work. My mags were first accepted by the FBIs HRT Team. They last thing they saw before a call out was my logo as it entered their pistol. The reason I remember this so well is because I received a phone call and was told to wait. I heard a round fired. The man indicated that was the 3O thousandth round fired from my mag and that they were ordering a substantial quantity. I'm sorry if I take pride in my work. I guess I'm old school that way.

Cool

But having never heard of your builds before - this type of introduction doesn’t have me reaching for my amex

[TGS]

I'm sorry if I take pride in my work. I guess I'm old school that way.

Taking pride in your work is fine, and I get it, everyone born younger than you is a piece of shit that doesn't deserve the time of day from someone as accomplished and beyond reproach as you.

You just come off as a wee-bit on the crazy side with the rambling stand-alone tirade that came out of left field, apparently inspired by a post from just over a year ago...

[CerTac]

I completely agree. Back when I was working with the FBI I was all over the internet discussing firearms and was pretty much on most major websites etc. I have done LOTS of other "stuff" including long gun, full auto (suppressed), suppressed (SBD, Suppressed Big DOG) which you may have seen on MythBusters paired up with SilencerCo's Suppressor. I have written and proven theories in Law Enforcement in multiple areas including the use of Suppression and K9. Additionally, I have had the GREATEST Privilege to have trained many members of every 3 Letter group both domestic and abroad. But when I became ill in 2008, ALL of that came to a SCREAMING HALT. 14 YEARS of a health battle is a long time to be out of the game. And YES you have NO IDEA who I am BECAUSE of that. Thus, as my health improves, I'm trying to get back living vs. fighting to stay alive. I hope we can share range time some day. Because I'm looking forward to getting back to the real world of real guns. Of course my down time allowed me to design other things. My ARCHANGEL rifles were ordered by some of the most elite of the elite with an "even" number when some of my crew went behind the "fences." I redesigned EVERY part of my pistols and built them bigger and stronger after hearing all the feedback from all my "guys" working in the different AOs across the globe. Did it suck being ill YES, but I was able to go from a Mark I to a Mark V and produce the Archangels and more. Don't misunderstand, I did the design work. I had to have subcontractors MACHINE my parts. NO sense in owning milling machines. And YES, you can't really work on a bench or a vice when you're connected to machines, so I had help. But, I could get busy living or get busy dying. I chose the former.

[CerTac]

Agreed Sir, a dear friend saw the post on Monday May 18th and brought it to my attention.

[L-2]

I wondered what happened to Cerberus Tactical.
Back then, I ended up buying the similar Guncrafter Industries "American" (although Zimmerman called it a "No-Name w/Rail).

I don't shoot 1911s as much anymore, but some things broke on the Guncrafter gun, as it probably would with any other 1911: front night sight lamp came out; slide stop lobe broke off; plunger tube rear pin broke. All were covered under Guncrafter warranty. It's just that these things can take weeks to get done and the handgun back.

I've never heard of "Pat Mac" and did not read the thread where Post_144 was referenced; I only now read that Post_144.

Thanks for the info regarding you; your company's troubled history; and connection with Guncrafter Industries.

I'd be interested to know what that Connecticut special tac team is using now.
My prior department's county SWAT was fairly conservative regarding handguns and used the same Glocks as what was issued for general duty: Glock 22gen3, then later G17Gen4.

BTW, welcome to the forum.

[RevolverRob]

Mr. Provost,

I've seen your work in person before. I know that the quality is present. I appreciate that you take great pride in the quality of your work. Recognizing that pride and the respect I have for your work, allow me a moment to talk to you about Pistol-Forum.com (P-F or PF as it is often shortened to).

Our late founder, Todd Louis Green (TLG), established P-F with the goal of generating a place where Teachers and Students of the Pistol could gather and discuss some of the complexities of both firearms execution and use. We are a very data-driven community, and though we are light-hearted with one another, we believe in practice and execution of the fundamentals of pistol shooting to a high level. Among our group we count many highly accomplished individuals from competitive shooters to people who have been involved in real gunfights and shootings. As a group, we understand the seriousness of a pistol needing to be both reliable and accurate, many of us have spent many thousands of dollars on equipment, ammunition, and training as a reflection of that seriousness.

As part of those goals, TLG instilled early on, a need to communicate here on P-F in a cohesive and calm manner. Please do not take offense at the following statement - Thus far your posts have been a bit erratic. We absolutely welcome your contributions here and would appreciate them, if they are presented in a way that is accessible to those of us who do not know your personally. In the end, we each are carrying different experiences in our lives and none of us are setting out to attack you or your work. If your goal is to set the record straight, and I recognize you are frustrated with this, it behooves you to explain this clearly and it helps us to understand where you are coming from in this regard.

Here on P-F no one starts at a negative level - everyone starts the same and then ascends or descends based on their communication and decorum. None-the-less we do have certain expected standards for communication and individuals here are highly motivated to learn. As a result, if they cannot quickly discern what you mean, they will dismiss you. I ask that you bear these things in mind and take heed of the fact that we share a common goal to have the equipment and skills to shoot and work with pistols (and other firearms) to a high degree. We want nothing more than to learn from one another and perhaps share a cold beverage or a good joke once in awhile.

Best,

-Rob

[theJanitor]

Well said, RevolverRob

I'll add a couple of random thoughts here.

-I doubt anyone got what you did out of post 144, Mr. Provost.
-I hope that you're willing to share some of what makes your pistols superior. This forum has the ability to look at the pistols objectively and with expertise
-Unless pins are being moved from the original spec, I consider most gunsmiths to be "blueprinting" the 1911 and it's pieces
-The Ed Brown variants of your mag were great, until they cracked. I dumped about 20 of them
-I'm not a Hilton Yam fan, but stories like this make him more believable
-Mostly, I'm glad to hear your health is improving.

And if anyone has pictures, background info, or other details about the pistols, I'd love to see them.

Thanks,

Kent

[CerTac]

Thank you for educating me on the decorum of the forum.

My goal in designing and building pistols started when Aldo Zitta met me and we discussed some of my ideas and compared them with his products. This was a very long time ago when he was making items for Spec Ops groups and competing HEAVILY in competition circuit. Al finally told me to get a 07 License and go into designing and producing firearms. Fast Forward to today, I have my own forgings. I found where numbers were wrong/transposed in the blueprints and those little numbers added up to lots of sloppiness or, lots of hand fitting of over sized parts. I attacked the little issues and problems went away. Correctly sized parts now fit perfectly. More specifically, MY correctly sized parts. Everything with the exception of springs and pins is of my design. When I found failures, I addressed those failures. If I can control every aspect of the frame, slide, barrel and all the parts, I know how a firearm will go together. I set out to make a HARDENED gun. My sights are hardened, they're not soft leaded metal. My last design is for a front sight. It takes lessons from an Express Rifle and applied that thought process to the front sight of a 1911. A 470 Nitro Express can't have it's front sight fly off when "The Black Death" is charging you. That's a Cape Buffalo to the non-hunters out there. I just wanted to make MY style of guns where you didn't have to FIX things right out of the box like I did with my first Colt National Match Gold Cup. You simply take the gun to the range, shoot it until it can't shoot anymore, clean it, lube it properly and it'll run perfectly. My original gun, CT000 which is STILL a shop mule has well over 200K rounds of ammo put through it. 125K of those was done by the government in a testing facility. The gun runs so smoothly I still take it out just to feel how smooth it is. Its UGLY, it has black on black sights, but it was the genesis of the Mark V program where my firearms come with all the bells and whistles you'd pay a proper gunsmith to install. I make Real Fighting Guns! Yes, I make competition guns too, but I figure if it's good enough to fight for your life with, it'll be good enough to compete with too. (Depending upon which discipline, No disrespect to gun racing guys, I'm a big fan). I know my style of gun is not for everyone, nor will everyone appreciate the attention to detail nor the price. But I was a cop who had to carry a standard Glock. Our Glock 21SFs broke constantly. I like Glock, but I always pose the question to my clients: will the polymer still be strong in 100 years if you're lucky enough to hand that firearm down to your grandchildren? This may not be everyone's view, but to me, Steel Guns are REAL Guns. Yes, I carry a Glock, I compete with CZ, Glock and others, but if the End of the world scenario comes to fruition, I'm carrying one of my Mark V Directed Operations Group (DOG) pistols.

I hope this answers your questions in the manner you wish. I'll answer any question you ask of me.

To L2, I've only Heard they went with S&W 9mm because they may have gotten them for free.....I cannot prove nor disprove that rumor. But they did that with Sig.

Thank you for asking on my health. I appreciate that.

Revolver Rob, Thank YOU! I didn't know you knew of me or my work, but am curious to know what you've seen.

Respectfully submitted,

[JonInWA]

I've never had the opportunity to handle, shoot or even see in person one of Christopher's 1911s, but I'm very familiar with his CerTac magazines, of which I've had 4 for years, and they've indeed run flawlessly. Check-Mate manufactured them to Christopher's specifications, and they remain one of my "go to" magazines. I run them as a set in my Second Generation SIG GSR (and while I have some deep skepticism about the currently produced SIG 1911s, mine runs exceptionally well-albeit after 2 trips to the SIG Custom Shop).

Best, Jon

[BigD]

This thread has it all.

1911 aficionado/builder getting mad his work has been besmirched.

Oblique references to someone building .45s for the SMU that can't be mentioned (except in oblique references, then it's ok.)

The BLACK DEATH charging at you!

Allegations of contract fraud on the part of a state and dirty doings from Glock (and possibly Sig and S&W.) (Though I don't know if free guns is actually dirty doings.) (And I'm doubting Glock was upset about losing the contract for 40 pistols.)



Yes, I carry a Glock,



Wait, what?

[TOTS]

This thread has it all.
Wait, what?

I know, right!!!

55091

[El Cid]

Thank you for educating me on the decorum of the forum.

My goal in designing and building pistols started when Aldo Zitta met me and we discussed some of my ideas and compared them with his products. This was a very long time ago when he was making items for Spec Ops groups and competing HEAVILY in competition circuit. Al finally told me to get a 07 License and go into designing and producing firearms. Fast Forward to today, I have my own forgings. I found where numbers were wrong/transposed in the blueprints and those little numbers added up to lots of sloppiness or, lots of hand fitting of over sized parts. I attacked the little issues and problems went away. Correctly sized parts now fit perfectly. More specifically, MY correctly sized parts. Everything with the exception of springs and pins is of my design. When I found failures, I addressed those failures. If I can control every aspect of the frame, slide, barrel and all the parts, I know how a firearm will go together. I set out to make a HARDENED gun. My sights are hardened, they're not soft leaded metal. My last design is for a front sight. It takes lessons from an Express Rifle and applied that thought process to the front sight of a 1911. A 470 Nitro Express can't have it's front sight fly off when "The Black Death" is charging you. That's a Cape Buffalo to the non-hunters out there. I just wanted to make MY style of guns where you didn't have to FIX things right out of the box like I did with my first Colt National Match Gold Cup. You simply take the gun to the range, shoot it until it can't shoot anymore, clean it, lube it properly and it'll run perfectly. My original gun, CT000 which is STILL a shop mule has well over 200K rounds of ammo put through it. 125K of those was done by the government in a testing facility. The gun runs so smoothly I still take it out just to feel how smooth it is. Its UGLY, it has black on black sights, but it was the genesis of the Mark V program where my firearms come with all the bells and whistles you'd pay a proper gunsmith to install. I make Real Fighting Guns! Yes, I make competition guns too, but I figure if it's good enough to fight for your life with, it'll be good enough to compete with too. (Depending upon which discipline, No disrespect to gun racing guys, I'm a big fan). I know my style of gun is not for everyone, nor will everyone appreciate the attention to detail nor the price. But I was a cop who had to carry a standard Glock. Our Glock 21SFs broke constantly. I like Glock, but I always pose the question to my clients: will the polymer still be strong in 100 years if you're lucky enough to hand that firearm down to your grandchildren? This may not be everyone's view, but to me, Steel Guns are REAL Guns. Yes, I carry a Glock, I compete with CZ, Glock and others, but if the End of the world scenario comes to fruition, I'm carrying one of my Mark V Directed Operations Group (DOG) pistols.

I hope this answers your questions in the manner you wish. I'll answer any question you ask of me.

To L2, I've only Heard they went with S&W 9mm because they may have gotten them for free.....I cannot prove nor disprove that rumor. But they did that with Sig.

Thank you for asking on my health. I appreciate that.

Revolver Rob, Thank YOU! I didn't know you knew of me or my work, but am curious to know what you've seen.

Respectfully submitted,

Please also know that typing in all caps is the equivalent of shouting and for most of us comes across very negatively. Thank you and welcome to P-F.

[GJM]

When a paragraph goes nearly a whole page, it has exhausted my attention span. If a gun must last 100 years, I am assuming it is not optics ready.

[BehindBlueI's]

Moved to General Discussion, as I don't see much that warrants a technical thread. Please play nice, though.

[Trukinjp13]

Are there pictures of said pistols? Or of equal builds? This did start off pretty rough and came off like a shot at Pat Mac. But I am curious in quality reliable 1911s....


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Casual Friday]

I'ma keep it real with ya chief, I don't have a friggin clue what's going on or what you're talking about, but welcome to the forum anyway I guess.

[Balisong]

CerTac, welcome to the forum. Would you mind elaborating on what was breaking on your Glock 21SFs? I've not heard of durability issues with those guns.

[theJanitor]

Moved to General Discussion, as I don't see much that warrants a technical thread. Please play nice, though.

I really want to know what makes these guns stand out. The only details we have now are that the whole gun is redesigned and it’s better because of it. 🤷🏻

[Austin Millbarge]

I'm Christopher Provost, the guy who designed and built those guns of which there were only 40 Qty. I could go into a lengthy story about the SPTU and how fubared they are, but I won't because I retired from the Thin Blue Line. But EVERYTHING you saw at a Pat Mac was NOT what was delivered to SPTU in June of 2008. To make a HUGE story short, instead of coming to me, they "thought" they could play Kitchen Table Gunsmith and do their own modifications to firearms they were "allowed" to purchase from the State of CT roughly in 2013 (?). The serial number SPTU 001 (upgraded to Mark V standards) is STILL in the hands of the now retired team leader and to paraphrase my friend "that PISTOL was the ONLY thing that WORKED every time I NEEDED it!" And he STILL has it! That was the Mark I Series. We were under contract to produce 5 pistols a year and UPGRADE ALL of the pistols as they had done some crazy things NEVER seen before on a 1911. EXAMPLE: One Trooper left his pistol, SPTU 033, on top of his cruiser and drove down I-95 at speed where it was thrown from the vehicle and was subsequently run over by several tractor trailers until a driver SAW it was a pistol, braved traffic, called the State and turned it in. It NEEDED work, but the State didn't want to pay. To bring this to a conclusion, I will NEVER do work with the STATE AGAIN. They broke every ASPECT of the contract. We delivered EARLY and ON BUDGET only to be investigated because someone on the inside was WORKING FOR GLOCK! When Glock didn't get the contract, Glock was NOT HAPPY. So, stories were told and the team leader and I were investigated at a cost MORE than what it was to PRODUCE THE FIREARMS, MAGAZINES AND ALL ACCESSORIES NEEDED.

I trained them for 5 days on the range where they PROMPTLY won the CT SWAT CHALLENGE.......and then I was struck down with a medical issue. I SOLD my remaining frames to my brother from a Danish Mother Alex Zimmermann of Guncrafter Industries. He built "his" version of the Big DOG pistol and called it the AMERICAN after me since he was Danish. Quite frankly my physicians didn't know if I'd live, so why NOT sell the frames to him......and then the Barbara Streisand started where folks thought it was a GI design.

I designed the ORIGINAL 8 round magazine which Derek Dibble of MetalForm produced. Mr. Dibble Sold the company and I wasn't going to purchase the inferior product THE NEW OWNERS wanted to produce with my logo on it so they SOLD them to Ed Brown who named them the 8 Pack. I went to CheckMate and we worked together to design the Ultimate Fighting Magazine. Unfortunately, I was still ill as Tommy the owner of Checkmate worked to produce the tooling. Tommy passed prematurely after a meeting during summertime and my health took another turn for the worse. I pretty much fell off the globe in 2008 and have finally resurfaced 14 years later. I'm NOT DEAD YET! In the meantime we're up to the Mark V series of DOG guns where EVERYTHING is my design, right down to the sights! In fact if you look at American Handgunner Magazine from this past winter, you'll see where Guncrafter Industries uses some MY PRODUCTS in his new series of pistols. As I said, Alex and I are family. We just live in different parts of the country.

I hope that sheds a sliver of light upon the situation. As anyone who knows me will have told you. You could have reached out at anytime and even from a hospital bed, I would have taken the time to speak with you.

If only 1/4 of this was actually true.

[BehindBlueI's]

If only 1/4 of this was actually true.

What parts aren't true and how do you know?

[Austin Millbarge]

I’m CSP, and an armorer for the agency. Dealt with Chris Provost for a couple years before the team switched to S&W.

If you think Mr. Provost’s post is a little off, you’d be right. Not much truth to anything he’s posted.

[fixer]

I can't get this click back.

[HCM]

I’m CSP, and an armorer for the agency. Dealt with Chris Provost for a couple years before the team switched to S&W.

If you think Mr. Provost’s post is a little off, you’d be right. Not much truth to anything he’s posted.

My impression was pretty much...


https://youtu.be/dV_MkUyUTMw

[Trooper224]

P-F is better than this.

Everyone who has a grievance in this fight should stop with the allegations. Start posting evidence in the form of photos, official documents, etc. Otherwise, step off and take it to any one of the other forums that thrive on such highschool lunchroom drama.

[Dave Williams]

We want the details. I've been interested in this issue for years.

[UNK]

https://youtu.be/1Abbrx84goQ

[BehindBlueI's]

P-F is better than this.

Everyone who has a grievance in this fight should stop with the allegations. Start posting evidence in the form of photos, official documents, etc. Otherwise, step off and take it to any one of the other forums that thrive on such highschool lunchroom drama.

I've been trying to be open minded that this could go somewhere that's relevant and informative. To date I'm disappointed. We'll see how it continues, but admin is aware and watching.

[Totem Polar]

Which one is Taran, and which one is Jade?

(IBTJ!*)

*in before Tom Jones...

[JohnO]

Sorry folks. It was my comment back September of 2019 that apparently was recently noticed and precipitated this event. I was quoted out of the blue by the OP of this thread who appears to have taken umbrage at my remarks which I stand by.

[Zirk208]

I can't get this click back.

Lost mine too

[Lost River]

Thank you for educating me on the decorum of the forum.

My goal in designing and building pistols started when Aldo Zitta met me and we discussed some of my ideas and compared them with his products. This was a very long time ago when he was making items for Spec Ops groups and competing HEAVILY in competition circuit. Al finally told me to get a 07 License and go into designing and producing firearms. Fast Forward to today, I have my own forgings. I found where numbers were wrong/transposed in the blueprints and those little numbers added up to lots of sloppiness or, lots of hand fitting of over sized parts. I attacked the little issues and problems went away. Correctly sized parts now fit perfectly. More specifically, MY correctly sized parts. Everything with the exception of springs and pins is of my design. When I found failures, I addressed those failures. If I can control every aspect of the frame, slide, barrel and all the parts, I know how a firearm will go together. I set out to make a HARDENED gun. My sights are hardened, they're not soft leaded metal. My last design is for a front sight. It takes lessons from an Express Rifle and applied that thought process to the front sight of a 1911. A 470 Nitro Express can't have it's front sight fly off when "The Black Death" is charging you. That's a Cape Buffalo to the non-hunters out there. I just wanted to make MY style of guns where you didn't have to FIX things right out of the box like I did with my first Colt National Match Gold Cup. You simply take the gun to the range, shoot it until it can't shoot anymore, clean it, lube it properly and it'll run perfectly. My original gun, CT000 which is STILL a shop mule has well over 200K rounds of ammo put through it. 125K of those was done by the government in a testing facility. The gun runs so smoothly I still take it out just to feel how smooth it is. Its UGLY, it has black on black sights, but it was the genesis of the Mark V program where my firearms come with all the bells and whistles you'd pay a proper gunsmith to install. I make Real Fighting Guns! Yes, I make competition guns too, but I figure if it's good enough to fight for your life with, it'll be good enough to compete with too. (Depending upon which discipline, No disrespect to gun racing guys, I'm a big fan). I know my style of gun is not for everyone, nor will everyone appreciate the attention to detail nor the price. But I was a cop who had to carry a standard Glock. Our Glock 21SFs broke constantly. I like Glock, but I always pose the question to my clients: will the polymer still be strong in 100 years if you're lucky enough to hand that firearm down to your grandchildren? This may not be everyone's view, but to me, Steel Guns are REAL Guns. Yes, I carry a Glock, I compete with CZ, Glock and others, but if the End of the world scenario comes to fruition, I'm carrying one of my Mark V Directed Operations Group (DOG) pistols.

I hope this answers your questions in the manner you wish. I'll answer any question you ask of me.

To L2, I've only Heard they went with S&W 9mm because they may have gotten them for free.....I cannot prove nor disprove that rumor. But they did that with Sig.

Thank you for asking on my health. I appreciate that.

Revolver Rob, Thank YOU! I didn't know you knew of me or my work, but am curious to know what you've seen.

Respectfully submitted,

OK,

Facts matter.

1.What "Spec Ops" group specifically. We have a pretty select group of members here at PF, to say the least.

2.It sounds like John Moses Browning got it wrong, you corrected all the problems that he could not. What did JMB do that was not working?

3.Apparently Glock got it wrong as well. What did Glock do wrong in their design?

4. What U.S. Government testing facility shot your gun 125,000 times in testing and can you provide a link to the data?

Thank you in advance for your replies.

[DDTSGM]

I hope I'm not violating forum rules, but this link to a two page thread on another site is kind of informative. Started out pretty rough, them calmed at the end:

https://www.ar15.com/forums/Handguns/-ARCHIVED-THREAD-Big-Dog-1911/49-64680/?page=1

[Clusterfrack]

This thread illustrates why I lost interest in 1911s. I had some expensive guns, and they all had problems that needed solving by expert gunsmiths. But who to choose? Each claimed to be the one who had the secret sauce to make 1911s reliable. But none of it brought the magic.

Maybe I missed out on the one single 1911 design that actually works like a modern combat firearm? Honestly I don’t care at this point because I have 100’s of thousands of trouble free rounds through Glocks, Sigs, and CZs (steel and polymer).

If I want to pass on a polymer gun to my grandkids, and the nylon has decayed for some weird reason, I’m sure I’ll be able to 3D print a new frame.

If I were going to buy an expensive all-steel CNCed hipster gun, it would be a CZ Custom A-01 or an Alien.

[Trukinjp13]

I hope I'm not violating forum rules, but this link to a two page thread on another site is kind of informative. Started out pretty rough, them calmed at the end:

https://www.ar15.com/forums/Handguns/-ARCHIVED-THREAD-Big-Dog-1911/49-64680/?page=1

Thank you. A lot of actual info in that thread.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Robinson]

This thread illustrates why I lost interest in 1911s. I had some expensive guns, and they all had problems that needed solving by expert gunsmiths. But who to choose? Each claimed to be the one who had the secret sauce to make 1911s reliable. But none of it brought the magic.

Maybe I missed out on the one single 1911 design that actually works like a modern combat firearm? Honestly I don’t care at this point because I have 100’s of thousands of trouble free rounds through Glocks, Sigs, and CZs (steel and polymer).

If I want to pass on a polymer gun to my grandkids, and the nylon has decayed for some weird reason, I’m sure I’ll be able to 3D print a new frame.

If I were going to buy an expensive all-steel CNCed hipster gun, it would be a CZ Custom A-01 or an Alien.

In my experience, a 1911 is just a little more likely to need attention/adjustment to make it run 100% than say a Glock. And that assumes one made by a good manufacturer, chambered for 45 ACP. They need lube. Other than that it's pretty easy. It's like my 45s don't know they're supposed to malfunction so they just keep shooting.

Now everyone, I am not the shooter CF is and I don't approach his round count. So don't take this as a dispute of what he posted. I respect your viewpoint CF.

[Nightvisionary]

Im just surprised that a police special tactics unit would be using anything in this 21st Century day and age that required proprietary hand fitted parts by master gunsmiths. I love my 1911's but jeez it's an antique. Even MARSOC had the good sense to dump the 1911 in favor of Glock 19's. Sounds like they had good sense and followed suit.

[Hambo]

Im just surprised that a police special tactics unit would be using anything in this 21st Century day and age that required proprietary hand fitted parts by master gunsmiths. I love my 1911's but jeez it's an antique. Even MARSOC had the good sense to dump the 1911 in favor of Glock 19's. Sounds like they had good sense and followed suit.

They bought them in 2008. Post 9/11, 1911s had a resurgence in popularity. Some guys in my department managed to get .45 1911s on our approved list for the first time in department history.

[45dotACP]

I'm pretty ghey for 1911s but I see no logical reason to issue them en masse when there are FAR better options for a duty weapon. As for the Cer-tac guns/mags I've never heard of them, so l will just stick with the guns/mags I know.

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[TGS]

Im just surprised that a police special tactics unit would be using anything in this 21st Century day and age that required proprietary hand fitted parts by master gunsmiths. I love my 1911's but jeez it's an antique. Even MARSOC had the good sense to dump the 1911 in favor of Glock 19's. Sounds like they had good sense and followed suit.

Custom 1911s were all the rage among tactical units in the mid-2000s.

Also, MARSOC was using 1911s at the same time this purchase/usage by CSP occurred.

[Zirk208]

I hope I'm not violating forum rules, but this link to a two page thread on another site is kind of informative. Started out pretty rough, them calmed at the end:

https://www.ar15.com/forums/Handguns/-ARCHIVED-THREAD-Big-Dog-1911/49-64680/?page=1

It would appear that clear communication and interpersonal skills were lacking, even in 2008.

[gomerpyle]

If I were going to buy an expensive all-steel CNCed hipster gun, it would be a CZ Custom A-01 or an Alien.

don't forget the Phoenix Redback (https://www.phx.swiss/index.php?id=112#!):)

[TGS]

It would appear that clear communication and interpersonal skills were lacking, even in 2008.

Not to mention flat out lying, such as "we make our own xxx" and then clarifying when pressed that the parts aren't actually made by them (and getting defensive over it).

[Trooper224]

The OP seems to have left the building.

[TheRoland]

Threads like this are why I like 1911s. Magic swords forged by secretive artisans with arcane rituals are just way cooler than boxes of plastic.

[Nightvisionary]

I wonder if this had anything to do with it? Sounds like major accountability issues with the Connecticut SPTU armory.


https://www.courant.com/news/connecticut/hc-news-state-police-missing-guns-20171218-story.html

[DDTSGM]

Does not sound good, does it?

[Austin Millbarge]

That was 2015. Nothing ever came of it. They switched to M&P in 2018.

The biggest issue with the 1911’s was keeping them running. 40 high round count guns require gunsmith support.

Every time something broke, it needed to be shipped to Guncrafters. Long turnaround times.

[paherne]

Threads like this are why I like 1911s. Magic swords forged by secretive artisans with arcane rituals are just way cooler than boxes of plastic.
I prefer teams of dwarves forging my weapons, personally.

[TheRoland]

I prefer teams of dwarves forging my weapons, personally.

Stop posting the secret to reliable 9mm 1911s where the muggles can read it!

[hiro]

I prefer teams of dwarves forging my weapons, personally.

Why haven't the dwarves moved on from these antiquated forging techniques and bought themselves a 5 axis milling machine huh?

It's a conspiracy damnit. All those 7s in their mythology too.

Everyone knows billet is stronger than forged. Philistines

[Paul D]

Why haven't the dwarves moved on from these antiquated forging techniques and bought themselves a 5 axis milling machine huh?

It's a conspiracy damnit. All those 7s in their mythology too.

Everyone knows billet is stronger than forged. Philistines

Two words: Dwarf union. Powerful organization.

[Balisong]

Two words: Dwarf union. Powerful organization.

I hear they're running a bit short on their membership numbers

[UNK]

I prefer teams of dwarves forging my weapons, personally.

Please clarify. Are these hot dwarfs or the longbeard variety.

[Stephanie B]

I prefer teams of dwarves forging my weapons, personally.

Don't forget the sealskin ropes.

[Dave Williams]

That was 2015. Nothing ever came of it. They switched to M&P in 2018.

The biggest issue with the 1911’s was keeping them running. 40 high round count guns require gunsmith support.

Every time something broke, it needed to be shipped to Guncrafters. Long turnaround times.

Why to Guncrafter?

[rjohnson4405]

Why to Guncrafter?

It was up thread but the original guy became ill and passed it over to them.

[Austin Millbarge]

That’s who built them.

[Dave Williams]

That’s who built them.

I felt it'd be hard for one guy to build so many custom 1911s. Plus they look like Guncrafters.

[CerTac]

Mr. Millbarge,

You Sir don't know me, you've never met me and no Sir, you would be wrong on so many accounts. I dealt with one man, and you sir were not it. Just because you went to a Colt Class doesn't make you an expert.

As previously stated I was ill from 2008 until recently. I was unable to work on firearms. And what improvements did I make when you found guns "someone" worked on? Was that you?

Mr. Millbarge, were you working with me in 2006 when this was started? To my knowledge you never met with me at any of the meetings. Where were the meetings held?

Were you one of the Armorers who was angry they didn't give you one of my guns? There was a tiff at the range. Are you one of the range staff? The man who doesn't eat or drink all day and came from the restaurant world before becoming CSP?

Who was the company that came in during my range time to demonstrate their rifles, and what happened?

If you know so much about me Mr. Millbarge, what do I look like now vs then? Can you even describe me?

High maintenance? Why is it I was able to fire 1000 rounds with 124 mag changes with 4 out of spec rounds in 58 minutes without a hitch with Pat? Were you there?

Were you there when I had to turn over my bank statements to CT State Police investigators?

What was the name of the company who purchased the Colt Thompson 1928A1S and at what cost?

What LT. from CSP came up to me unexpectedly because we're friends when the decision was to purchase my firearms and what significant event happened that day? And more importantly, what did he say out loud in front of everyone?

Why was I called back to the range that day?

What does my very specific vehicle look like?

Who received serial number SPTU 007

Why is it I know all of this and you sir sling accusations stating nothing is true?

What incident happened where someone went to the team leader at an even and said I knew the gun would blow up (it did not).......what was done to that firearm? And who was investigated. What specifically happened?

Whose wife passed after training and who was I standing with at the funeral home?

And finally no, John Moses Browning didn't mess up his drawings. The drawings have been redone so many times mistakes were made. The set I saw had mistakes and those prints came from the company machining my frames.

And finally Mr. Millbarge, if you know me what was I struck down with, and be specific, because it's very specific. No generalizations.

For bonus points Sir, what was the yardage my rifle set at a competition and was specifically was the range, how many shots fired and how many hits?

And for the moderators, I'm in this to make money. I'm not someone sharing my secrets with anyone for free. If that goes against the founder's concept, well then this isn't the place for me. So I'll bid you ladies and gentleman a fine adieu.

[Caballoflaco]

So glad you want to use this forum to make money without contributing anything but long rambling posts. I think you’re right when you say this isn’t the place for you.

[Willard]

This is the most bizarre thread I've encountered on this forum...

[Trooper224]

well then this isn't the place for me.

Even a pig finds an acorn eventually.

[rcbusmc24]

If the attention to detail that this dude pays to his writing is any indication of the attention to detail that he paid to his " builds" then I personally would have been absolutely terrified to carry a gun built by his company on duty.....

[theJanitor]

For what it's worth, Austin Millbarge and I have conducted personal business a few years ago, and he was straightforward and respectful.

[Austin Millbarge]

Mr. Millbarge,

You Sir don't know me, you've never met me and no Sir, you would be wrong on so many accounts. I dealt with one man, and you sir were not it. Just because you went to a Colt Class doesn't make you an expert.

As previously stated I was ill from 2008 until recently. I was unable to work on firearms. And what improvements did I make when you found guns "someone" worked on? Was that you?

Mr. Millbarge, were you working with me in 2006 when this was started? To my knowledge you never met with me at any of the meetings. Where were the meetings held?

Were you one of the Armorers who was angry they didn't give you one of my guns? There was a tiff at the range. Are you one of the range staff? The man who doesn't eat or drink all day and came from the restaurant world before becoming CSP?

Who was the company that came in during my range time to demonstrate their rifles, and what happened?

If you know so much about me Mr. Millbarge, what do I look like now vs then? Can you even describe me?

High maintenance? Why is it I was able to fire 1000 rounds with 124 mag changes with 4 out of spec rounds in 58 minutes without a hitch with Pat? Were you there?

Were you there when I had to turn over my bank statements to CT State Police investigators?

What was the name of the company who purchased the Colt Thompson 1928A1S and at what cost?

What LT. from CSP came up to me unexpectedly because we're friends when the decision was to purchase my firearms and what significant event happened that day? And more importantly, what did he say out loud in front of everyone?

Why was I called back to the range that day?

What does my very specific vehicle look like?

Who received serial number SPTU 007

Why is it I know all of this and you sir sling accusations stating nothing is true?

What incident happened where someone went to the team leader at an even and said I knew the gun would blow up (it did not).......what was done to that firearm? And who was investigated. What specifically happened?

Whose wife passed after training and who was I standing with at the funeral home?

And finally no, John Moses Browning didn't mess up his drawings. The drawings have been redone so many times mistakes were made. The set I saw had mistakes and those prints came from the company machining my frames.

And finally Mr. Millbarge, if you know me what was I struck down with, and be specific, because it's very specific. No generalizations.

For bonus points Sir, what was the yardage my rifle set at a competition and was specifically was the range, how many shots fired and how many hits?

And for the moderators, I'm in this to make money. I'm not someone sharing my secrets with anyone for free. If that goes against the founder's concept, well then this isn't the place for me. So I'll bid you ladies and gentleman a fine adieu.

I’m not even sure where to start. We have met. More than once. The first time you told me you were training the French Foreign Legion. The second time I met you it was Seal Team Six. I recall specifically asking you for your background because you were vague about why the Foreign Legion or Seal Team Six would hire you to train them. You never answered me. I eventually found out a little about you. I’ve since learned much more.

Many people over the years have asked you on many forums for your background and expertise, to my knowledge nobody has ever gotten an answer. Why is that?

So please, tell us all about you.

I know one member of this forum personally, and he knows that I am who I say I am. I won’t mention his name because I’m not sure he wants to get involved in this.

Anybody can feel free to PM me and I’ll fill you in.

[Austin Millbarge]

One specific answer to your question, I saw you drive a blue Ford pickup with a a vanity plate.

[Paul D]

I for one would like to welcome @Austin Millbarge to the forum. His most meaningful contribution to this forum so far is to be the only one from Connecticut who made sense on this thread. Welcome and I hope you stick around!

[Caballoflaco]

I think this thread needs more otter videos


https://youtu.be/WfyhWHoh1JA

[Austin Millbarge]

For what it's worth, Austin Millbarge and I have conducted personal business a few years ago, and he was straightforward and respectful.

The Novak Colt?

[stinx]

That was 2015. Nothing ever came of it. They switched to M&P in 2018.

The biggest issue with the 1911’s was keeping them running. 40 high round count guns require gunsmith support.

Every time something broke, it needed to be shipped to Guncrafters. Long turnaround times.

Just curious which M&P and caliber?

[Inkwell 41]

Soooo....Did we ever figure out the color of the boathouse at Hereford?

[Austin Millbarge]

Just curious which M&P and caliber?

2.0 FS in 9mm, Apex trigger and straight 8 sights. I installed 40 Apex triggers in about three days.

[stinx]

2.0 FS in 9mm, Apex trigger and straight 8 sights. I installed 40 Apex triggers in about three days.

Solid choice, but I am surprised they did not go 45 since The issue gun is 45: unless that’s changed. We were an M&P department until last Oct. We then transitioned to Gen 5 Glock 19. We had great luck with the M&P and wanted to go M&P 2.0. In 9. Smiths trade offer was laughable so we ended up with Glocks.

[boing]

I’m feeling nostalgic about the heady days when Teddy Jacobson would arrive and make interesting times on forum after forum.

[Austin Millbarge]

Solid choice, but I am surprised they did not go 45 since The issue gun is 45: unless that’s changed. We were an M&P department until last Oct. We then transitioned to Gen 5 Glock 19. We had great luck with the M&P and wanted to go M&P 2.0. In 9. Smiths trade offer was laughable so we ended up with Glocks.

Probably going to G45’s this year, no more P220’s.

[Trooper224]

Soooo....Did we ever figure out the color of the boathouse at Hereford?

How the fuck would we know?

[TheNewbie]

Probably going to G45’s this year, no more P220’s.

How was the reliability with the P220s?

[Totem Polar]

https://memegenerator.net/instance/72562956/futurama-fry-not-sure-if-this-thread-is-crazy-or-awesome

[Zirk208]

If you're who you say you are, what song did I sing for you on your birthday last year?

[stinx]

Probably going to G45’s this year, no more P220’s.

Great choice the 45's were not out when our agency started the process, The 45MOS would be my pick since it allows the option of PMO in the future. A number of agencies near me are going this route.

[Austin Millbarge]

How was the reliability with the P220s?

The guns themselves were fine. The magazines were shit. They routinely fail because the magazine body doesn’t go all the way to the baseplate. It stops short and has a metal locking insert. So you basically have all the stress on the plastic baseplate, mounted on the two little metal tabs at the bottom of the magazine. Poor design.

[Austin Millbarge]

Great choice the 45's were not out when our agency started the process, The 45MOS would be my pick since it allows the option of PMO in the future. A number of agencies near me are going this route.

We considered that, the agency wasn’t ready for that.

[stinx]

We considered that, the agency wasn’t ready for that.

Understood, its a significant cost to do it right and requires a good amount of training to become proficient, I think in 5 years it will be the norm. Red Dots on Patrol rifles was initially frowned upon, now fast forward to today. In my area every dept near ours has RED Dots on their rifles and Less Lethal launchers etc.

[Austin Millbarge]

Understood, its a significant cost to do it right and requires a good amount of training to become proficient, I think in 5 years it will be the norm. Red Dots on Patrol rifles was initially frowned upon, now fast forward to today. In my area every dept near ours has RED Dots on their rifles and Less Lethal launchers etc.

We have Aimpoints on all our patrol rifles. The launchers have Aimpoint or EOTechs.

[Whiskey_Bravo]

I saw the CSP guys at the CT SWAT challenge last summer and I was initially surprised to see the M&P's in their holsters. But it makes perfect sense honestly. Slide mounted red dots all around from what I saw as well.

The handguns were cool, but Dem custom JP uppers with Nightforce ATACRs doh....

[BehindBlueI's]

The OP has decided that this forum is not for him and has stated his intention not to return. As such I think this thread has ran it's course, whatever that course was.

Austin Millbarge Feel free to start a new thread to discuss your department's issued equipment if you like. Also you have the TBL background now.