RFI: Engagement rings

[Dan_S]

Alright...I’m finding myself in a situation I didn’t expect, exactly, but here goes.

It seems that I’m looking to purchase ring, and know pretty much...well, nothing about them, their purchase, or...anything else.

Realizing I’m looking at 5-10k most likely, I want to spend as wisely as possible, and get something that’s truly worth the asking price, and not paying just for a ‘name’. Certainly not enthused about manufactured diamonds either.

Is this a case of go to a big-name chain, or are there some better ways to go about such a purchase?

Given that there are more than a few fine watch enthusiasts here, it seemed a good idea to ask.

Thanks in advance.

[Joe S]

Overwhelmingly, your best bet will be someone highly recommended from others you trust. If you don't know anyone in the jewelry field that can be your native guide, see if any female friends or family members can help you out. If the person in question has a BFF, they can be a good resource.

Otherwise, I would want an individual with a good rep that has access to the wholesale side.

Another way to go is see if there is a good place that deals with vintage or estate jewelry. If they deal with with higher end they will have a keen eye for stuff, and are more likely to be fair and honest (check reputations), because they want you to think of them later, for other jewelry, housewares, etc. They want a customer, not just a sale, like many diamond dealers who know they'll never see you again. You can find many classic style rings this way, or maybe do something a little different, if you know her tastes well enough.

That's if you want a pretty standard princess cut solitaire prong set on gold or platinum. If you want something more unique, let me know; I have two different ladies that I know and have worked with personally that do amazing work that I would recommend in a heartbeat.

[Dan_S]

Overwhelmingly, your best bet will be someone highly recommended from others you trust. If you don't know anyone in the jewelry field that can be your native guide, see if any female friends or family members can help you out. If the person in question has a BFF, they can be a good resource.

Otherwise, I would want an individual with a good rep that has access to the wholesale side.

Another way to go is see if there is a good place that deals with vintage or estate jewelry. If they deal with with higher end they will have a keen eye for stuff, and are more likely to be fair and honest (check reputations), because they want you to think of them later, for other jewelry, housewares, etc. They want a customer, not just a sale, like many diamond dealers who know they'll never see you again. You can find many classic style rings this way, or maybe do something a little different, if you know her tastes well enough.

That's if you want a pretty standard princess cut solitaire prong set on gold or platinum. If you want something more unique, let me know; I have two different ladies that I know and have worked with personally that do amazing work that I would recommend in a heartbeat.

Yeah, the standard princess-cut isn’t quite going to ‘cut it’ here. I’d be very interested in who you would recommend and taking a look at their work!

[Arbninftry]

QVC has them for 89.99 about once a week:cool:

[Dan_S]

QVC has them for 89.99 about once a week:cool:

I guess I understand why everyone here has so much money to throw at whiskey, watches, and boutique pistols now....




😂

[Arbninftry]

I guess I understand why everyone here has so much money to throw at whiskey, watches, and boutique pistols now....




😂
Thats how I got a TRIARC on order:cool:

[Le Français]

Using a ring that’s already in your family is an option which some people don’t like for various reasons, but which others find very appealing, and which I thought I’d mention. Grandmothers, if you’re fortunate enough to have one or two still with you, can be good people to ask.

[Joe S]

Using a ring that’s already in your family is an option which some people don’t like for various reasons, but which others find very appealing, and which I thought I’d mention. Grandmothers, if you’re fortunate enough to have one or two still with you, can be good people to ask.

This is a great option, also. My sister-in-law wears the rock from one of my great-grandmother's rings on a new band.

Dan, PM incoming.

[DDTSGM]

I got nothing except best wishes!

[Paul D]

My personal experience: I bought a loose diamond and had it mounted on ring from a big chain store. I was lucky because my brother's best friend had family in the wholesale jewelry business. I had a caret size, clarity, shape and price in mind. I called that friend's brother and he said he could help. I drove from Phoenix to downtown LA. The place looked exactly like the opening scene of Snatch. I paid in cash (the most amount of cash I ever had on my person in my life up that point). I put the stone in a ziplock and drove back to Phoenix that same day. It was a hell of a deal. Prior to getting that lucky break, I would ask women I knew with diamonds where they got it from. They were more than happy share and show off.

One thing: my wife is a more cheaper bastard than me, but make no mistake; if I came back with a rock less than 1 caret, it would've been ugly. Broad judgmental strokes I know, but we are talking about women.

[Coyotesfan97]

I’m suspecting your not in the Scottsdale area but Jimmy Chase aka Jimmy the Jeweler does great work. I’ve met him through my retired friend/Old Sergeant who grew up with him. He does great work and has been doing it for thirty years. He has some well known clients.

His website is https://soulmetalworks.com/metalurgency/

[farscott]

A lot of diamond rings and other rings with precious stones get pawned. The pawn value is basically the value of the ring metal with the stone coming along for the ride. The pawn shops have a lot of stones pulled from rings so the metal can be sold as scrap. The pawn shops will sell the stones for pennies on the dollar.

So what I did is go the local pawn shop which is also my local LGS. I asked to look at all of the stones (and because the shop has been around for thirty years, there were a lot to check) and found a nice 2 carat marquise cut stone. I asked the owner for a price. Came back at $100 and we closed the deal. I then took the stone to a local jeweler and had it set in a platinum ring. That was a bit over $1,000. So I ended up with a custom ring for about one-tenth of the cost of a store ring.

[Josh Runkle]

I spent many months shopping way back when... I found that buying the diamond (even a certified diamond) loose and then buying the ring and having it set was about a 50% savings over buying an “engagement ring”. Do some brief reading on cut, carat, color, clarity and what they all mean. Have a generic idea of what type of diamond you think you are interested in and then go to a mall with 4-5 jewelry stores and talk to all of them about what you think you want and take a look at those diamonds. Get an idea about what makes something more or less expensive. Pick what type of diamond you want, go back to all of those places and honestly tell them exactly what you want and that you are going to go to all of the jewelry stores in the mall and compare prices and buy the best deal. They will jump to outbid the other shops...then you can show the cards with a price to the next guy and ask them what they can knock off.


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[RJ]

First, Congratulations.

Second: Practice this helpful phrase: "Yes, dear". :)

Kidding. There must be some jewellers here to help you out. I know that it is a fantastically marked up business, though. My personal story is when we wanted to pick out a ring (emphasis on we) we ended up using a previous family stone, and had it reset into an engagement band. It was re-worked by a local jeweller in Orlando FL who had a collection of nice older engagement bands in gold. The ring we bought ended up being a "twin" in which the wedding band slips over and interlocks with the engagement ring. I think it looks great. And my fiance (now wife) was very pleased.

So it might be an idea to locate an older, established jeweller in your area perhaps, and see if they have any nice estate jewellery. You could buy a stone separate or loose, and have it reset? Just thinking this could be an alternative to going to the Mall and paying a fortune at one of the glitzy jewellers.

Good luck!

[David S.]

I would place my emphasis on getting the right size, shape, ring type and color. I obviously don't know your girl and I certainly don't mean to insult anyone's intelligence, but she probably can't tell the difference between a $1k and a $10k one carat diamond under real world lighting.

After doing all the research, I found one at Costco that checked all the right boxes. She loved/loves it. Showed it off to everyone for months.

She's been probing for a bigger one since about year 4 . :sigh:

[VT1032]

One factor you really want to look at it what type of ring she likes. Seems obvious but I worked jewelry at a big box store for a bit after college and I processed a lot of returns. Certainly not an expert but I know the basics.

There are tons of different options to the point that it can be pretty overwhelming. Starting with metals, does she prefer gold, white gold, etc? Does she prefer simple solitaire rings or big ones with 40 smaller stones that rival service academy rings? If she likes solitaire, what type of cut for the stone does she like? Time to do some recon of her current jewelry and maybe talk to some of her friends if you can. Also, ain't nothin wrong with solitaire. For sheer wow factor, nothing beats a giant rock sitting by itself on a simple band. It really all depends on what her taste is. If it's more simple or traditional, solitaire is the way to go. If it's more flashy, maybe not so much. I wouldn't necessarily rule out the box stores either. Some of them have decent stuff on the higher end of what they have, and you can sometimes string together quite a few discounts to get a great deal. I bought my wife's engagement ring from the place I worked and between my employee discount, the discount from opening a store card, and applying several coupons and promotions I paid less then half the original price.

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[RoyGBiv]

I want to spend as wisely as possible, and get something that’s truly worth the asking price, and not paying just for a ‘name’.

1. Educate yourself. Diamonds are graded for Color, Clarity, Cut and Carat (weight). Can your eye tell the difference between a D (colorless) and G? Can you see the inclusions in a VVS2 with a naked eye or is your gal going to use a loop to make sure it's FL? Does it sparkle (Cut)?

2. Assess.... Does your gal wear any other diamonds? If she loves her grandmothers D earrings and wears them often, eventually someone will compare the ring to the earrings. You never want to hear "Wow, that ring sure is yellow compared to granny's studs." (phrasing!) If she wears her mom's diamond band, it's a certainty that the two will get compared. Is it better to be on the "better than", "similar to" or "not quite" side of that comparison?

3. If you live in a big city, is there a diamond district? Go shopping and compare.
If no, you may find yourself needing to go to a place like Jared's to shop and compare. Take notes.

4. There are decent online places to buy diamonds... I have never done so, but, after getting educated and shopping locally for the visual decision making, I would shop Blue Nile if I was in the market. https://www.bluenile.com/

5. If you know a reputable appraiser in your area, ask them for a recommendation on where to buy locally.

6. The money you save buying in NY diamond district would likely cover the cost of getting there, or, enable you to get a nicer rock for the same price vs. Jared's. COVID is an issue there currently, however.

That's all I got. It's been 25+ years since I bought an engagement ring, but I doubt the rules have changed much.

[rjohnson4405]

Definitely bring her best friend or mother along.

My mother in law loved being a part of the process, and helped a lot.

I went to someone recommended but it was a Mom and Pop shop. The diamond is what matters, new settings are relatively cheap. We got one that was "certified" but not by GIA, instead by EGL which is slightly smaller and European and whatever I didn't care. I did care that thing sparkled like a mofo and didn't have a yellow tint. My jeweler got in several diamonds (can return them and get new ones as needed) and we picked through until we found the right one. Picked out a separate ring/mount from the catalog and had them put together. A lot cheaper to change out just the ring/setting if you get a good diamond.

Also I did round cut diamond as I believe they told me it was the most sparkly and she loves that, and people notice/comment on that, which she also loves.

[TheRoland]

When I bought a ring, I liked two places:

1. Online. There are reputable online dealers that do volume. Blue Nile has already been mentioned. Shipping diamonds is nerve-wracking but they have a very good reputation.
2. Local jewelers in rich places. One of my previous hobbies was screwing with (and trying to help people deal with) fraudsters and scammers. I came across a couple of instances of jewelers doing things like substituting moissanite, "losing" grandma's ring and coming back with a cheaper one, etc. People with failing businesses are desperate and desperate people do things they wouldn't otherwise. Jewelers in wealthier places, who sell to a steady clientele of litigious people with long memories don't do these things.

I never figured out what to make of mall stores.

[Joe S]

This is all great info from the brain trust.

[vcdgrips]

I used to sell jewelry (etc.) at Macy's in high school/college and at Kreigels/Hannoush (regional chain store) while in law school. I looked at 40 stones before buying the one I bought. You have been given good info re educating yourself re Cut, Clarity, Color and Carat Weight. I offer the following:


Executive Summary-the easy choice is Costco or a local multi generational family owned store with an excellent reputation.


Costco is knocking it out of the park re the quality/value intersection. They are also a leader in selling rings that have been set with a stone in the center surrounded by much smaller stones surrounding the center stone such that the ring looks like a much larger solitaire from just a few feet and beyond. i.e. the center stone is .82 carats, the surrounding stones make it look like at 1.25 carat ring. The Costco ring is 3000. Any decent 1.25 carat solitaire would be 2.5 or 3x that all day long.


A locally owned family stone often carries a certain panache that can have real value to your wife. The panache can extend outside of the local area. One three separate occasions when my then wife was traveling to Las Vegas, Chicago and New Orleans, she had her ring cleaned at a local store. When asked where she was from, she said KC. The jewelers then asked if the ring was purchased in KC, she says yes. They then ask, "is this ring from Tivol?" Tivol has a national reputation in the trade and simply does not buy poorly cut stones. Tivol is one of the oldest family run stores in KC and Tivol grand kids are now in the sales force.


Another sure bet is Tiffany's. You will overpay relative to the other two choices but there is an undeniable snap of the blue box. Tiffany jewelry is a lot like Rolex. Superlative in quality and the price reflects that.


1. Do not buy anywhere that you cannot get a full refund are at least a full in store credit.

a. She could say no
b. She could change her mind
c. You could change your mind
d. Another ring could come on the scene
e. She might not like the ring

2. Find out what she wants re shape and setting

3. Put your money in cut first and color second. A well cut, whiter stone ( G or better). By analogy, well tailored suit looks better than a less tailored one, This is often true even when the less tailored suit is of better fabric. Cut is everything. I would buy a well cut 1.0-1.2 carat stone with decent color way before a 1.5 carat stone that was not as well cut or white at the same price point.

4. Do not forget to call your insurance company and have it "separately" scheduled and covered for all hazards to include lost, damaged and mysterious disappearance. Most standard insurance policies cover relatively small amounts re jewelry, subject to your deductible and do not cover all hazards.

5. Unless it is an heirloom, there is always another stone out there.

6. I would ask about a cash discount. By definition it should be at least 3% as that is what a credit card company would be charging the store to process the payment.


It is always possible to find well cut, quality stones from a pawn shop, chain store etc. In my opinion and experience, it is simply much easier to do so at the places outlined above, stone for stone, day in day out absent some kind of association you have to a decision maker at a pawn shop.

[rkittine]

I have bought many diamonds direct from Cutters in the Manhattan Diamond district and then just had them set. Always then have the certified and serial numbered by GIF.

Of the 4 "C", Carat Weight, Cut, Clarity and Color, I would always spend more on Color as that is what most people will see when they look at your ladies hand. No real need to pay thousands more for a higher clarity that can only be told by a 10X or 20X loop. Don't think your friends will grab you ladies hand, put a loop on and check that. Color Grades of D, E and F are usually considered to be engagement ring quality, though in some case G will look OK. I, J and K can be ok for diamonds of 1 carat or less

What is usually the most expensive cut is the Brilliant Cut for a round stone. It is also the most expensive cut, the reason being that to get a round stone with reasonable clarity, there may have to be areas cut off that otherwise would allow more diamond weight in say a heart shape , or oval diamond where they can cut around the flaws and keep more of the total weight.

I prefer Brilliant cut with at least 58 facets. You can get a round ring cut will much less and have one that will actually look bigger in normal view as it will be shallower and have less hidden in the setting.

When it comes to weight, let your budget be your guide. A 1 carat ring that has lower color, lower clarity, not round etc. might be pretty inexpensive where a 1 Carat D Color Brilliant Cut Round Stone that is IF (Internally Flawless) might cost $50,000.

Enjoy shopping, Bob

[Wise_A]

One thing: my wife is a more cheaper bastard than me, but make no mistake; if I came back with a rock less than 1 caret, it would've been ugly. Broad judgmental strokes I know, but we are talking about women.

If you get down on one knee, ask to marry me, and then open a box with a Taurus G2 inside, I'm going to kick you in the teeth.

[Duces Tecum]

The main stone is more important than the setting. You know this, but it's important to re-state it. We'll be discussing only the center stone of a finger ring. Earrings typically carry stones of lower quality.

The diamond market is soft right now. That means two things: (a) it's a good time to buy, and (b) if you buy from a sidewalk dealer (don't laugh, people have bought fine stones from cutters or dealers met at the bourse, and been mostly happy with the results) he will try very hard to get as much for the stone as he can squeeze from you. He doesn't know when he might sell another, and you are right there before him.

One way for a not-in-the-trade buyer to purchase a diamond is to examine and compare prices among the on-line dealers. These are more likely than the sidewalk dealers to price their wares competitively. One of the possible sites is https://www.bluenile.com/diamonds. I'm not necessarily recommending Blue Nile to the exclusion of other sites: it is offered as a sample only.

If a person wished a diamond to maintain as much of it's price as possible, a relatively rare stone must be bought. As others have mentioned, the filters of scarcity are color, clarity, size, and cut. For example, the highest color is "D" (colorless). The highest clarity is "IF" (internally flawless). There are 100 points in each caret, and the rarest diamonds weigh multiples of 100 points. A stone weighing exactly 1 carat will cost more (due to scarcity) than a stone of .98 carats (98 points) or of 102 points. The cutter knows this, and tries very hard to cut stones that will sell for high dollars. That's why "cut" is the fourth measure of scarcity. A poor cut will impact the value of a stone, even one exactly on the point line. There are, however, brands that are associated with precision cuts. "Hearts and Arrows" is one example. Another is the "Ideal" cut.

A fifth scarcity check is fluorescence. About one in four diamonds will show color under ultra-violet light, so it's not rare, and neither is it a grading factor. But a non-fluorescing diamond might sell for more. The biggest stone Mrs. Tecum has fluoresces.

Not all quality filters are equally important. The most important are the ones hardest to change. Color and clarity are more important than size and cut. A stone can be re-cut, but it's much harder to change color or clarity.

As a practical matter, my wife's diamonds are beneath investment grade, but within the parameters of gem quality. I like her diamonds to be F/G on the color scale and have a clarity of VVS1 or VVS2. I don't want to pay the premium for a stone exactly on the carat line. I expect a good cut. Regardless of the other qualities, a stone lacking a good cut will have no life. Each center stone has been accompanied by a GIA certificate. A reference is https://4cs.gia.edu/en-us/diamond-buying-guide/

There is also the possibility of contacting Tiffany and asking about quality of stones they offer
https://www.tiffany.com/engagement/the-tiffany-guide-to-diamonds/ and matching it on-line.

All of that said, things happen. Several years ago we were offered earrings from a jeweler I'd known for quite a while. His wife wanted a piano and he had to sell that pair of her earrings to afford it. The earrings had large rose cut diamonds hanging beneath an arc of old mine cut diamonds. They were astonishingly beautiful, if you're into that sort of thing. Trouble was, the rose cuts were not cut exactly the same. They were two similar earrings, but not quite a pair. I bought them anyway, and they've become her favorite diamond earrings.

[TheRoland]

I'll also mention that for the 10k upper end of your price tag, you could buy a 5k ring and a pretty nice Omega or Tag. Or, a ring, and his and her's Sinn watches.

Just since you mentioned watches.

[Dan_S]

This is all great info from the brain trust.


I'll also mention that for the 10k upper end of your price tag, you could buy a 5k ring and a pretty nice Omega or Tag. Or, a ring, and his and her's Sinn watches.

Just since you mentioned watches.

Lemme put it this way - I don’t spend money on myself, well, except when I do... (NFA items are fun...equipment are tools...)

I’d buy her a ring and a watch, though. She likes watches. For me, it’d be a waste as I’ve come to realize I actually dislike wearing a watch, and therefore wouldn’t wear an expensive watch even if I had one, especially considering that when one is covered in grease, diesel, wood chips, and sweat, an expensive watch would be rather...pointless, for me.


Here would be some examples of the style she likes - the middle one, meh.

[rkittine]

Much nicer than a Cigar Wrapper Ring ...........

[vcdgrips]

All of those depicted rings are likely to bust your 10k budget. Bling for buck would be to go for the diamond wedding/anniversary band v. the solitaire in that a band with ten .20ct stones for a total carat weight of 2 ct is going to likely be far cheaper than a 2ct solitaire.

Let’s talk turkey-

What does she do for a living i.e works with her hands such that a closer fitting band makes more sense?

Is peer/family pressure in play?

Absent her being extremely petite, 1 ct (or 1 ct looking) would be the smallest solitaire I would be looking at presuming the budget is there and yours is.

Resist any urge to buy size at the significant expense of cut, color and to a lesser extent, clarity.

Circa 1992, I cannot tell you how many times I sold a 1 ct round that was about a K in color with naked eye visible inclusions at 2k ish because it had to be a 1 ct stone come hell or high water.

He could have bought a 2ct band in white gold at 1/2 the price with G/Naked eye clean stones (SI 2 or better in my mind/eyes) and been much happier.

[Dan_S]

@vdcgrips

PM sent.

[Darth_Uno]

Why not lab-made? It looks the same. It sparkles the same. I'd assume it smells the same. It is, quite literally, the exact same. It's compressed carbon. They just made it indoors instead of paying African kids 40 cents a day to dig it out of the ground.

[Dan_S]

Why not lab-made? It looks the same. It sparkles the same. I'd assume it smells the same. It is, quite literally, the exact same. It's compressed carbon. They just made it indoors instead of paying African kids 40 cents a day to dig it out of the ground.



In this case, I would prefer a natural stone, it has more value, to me, than a manufactured product. Logical? Maybe not. If you’re of a non-scientific mind about nature, you might place more value on a naturally occurring object, than something that crawled out of a test tube. 🙂

[Darth_Uno]

Yeah, I get that while it’s technically the same thing...it’s still not the same.

My wife however has said that she’d be totally fine with lab diamonds (her wedding band is natural ftr).


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[rkittine]

Put them up together and see if you still think they are the same.

[Hambo]

I guess I understand why everyone here has so much money to throw at whiskey, watches, and boutique pistols now....




😂

Look at it this way, if she loves you, she'll never check to see if it's real. If she checks, it didn't cost much to find out. ;)