Frangible .223 / 5.56 for a class

[Medusa]

I’ve never used frangible ammo before. If you were gonna take a carbine class involving the expenditure of, say, 1000 frang rounds, and you were buying your own and wanted to minimize wear and tear on your weapon, what would you use ? Something without a lead free primer ? One of the semi jacketed frang rounds? I don’t believe I’m required to use lead free primers.

I looked at some older threads here, saw the opinion that the damaging part of some frangible rounds is the lead free primer part, rather than the projectile itself.

As always, thank you.

[HCM]

I’ve never used frangible ammo before. If you were gonna take a carbine class involving the expenditure of, say, 1000 frang rounds, and you were buying your own and wanted to minimize wear and tear on your weapon, what would you use ? Something without a lead free primer ? One of the semi jacketed frang rounds? I don’t believe I’m required to use lead free primers.

I looked at some older threads here, saw the opinion that the damaging part of some frangible rounds is the lead free primer part, rather than the projectile itself.

As always, thank you.

Is Frange required due to use of close range steel or is it a range requirement ?

If the latter, it could be a lead free requirement or it could be due to impact area issues, i.e. a frange bullet that misses the berm will not go as far as a conventional bullet.

The semi jacketed would theoretically reduce barrel wear. Seminar jacked frangible like .MIL AA40 is hard to find. I would likely shy away from frange in a SS Precision barrel for this reason.

[Medusa]

Thanks. It’s just listed as a course requirement. I don’t see any requirement for lead free primers. Based on what I’ve seen, some of the course, which is an “urban rifle” type class, is close ish steel. I appreciate the advice re my 18 “ SS, which weapon is still, frustratingly, nowhere near complete but also not the one I’d be using for this class.

[MistWolf]

...I looked at some older threads here, saw the opinion that the damaging part of some frangible rounds is the lead free primer part, rather than the projectile itself.

As always, thank you.

Damage to what? From what I understand, frangible ammo shouldn't be fired through some suppressors & muzzle devices similar in construction to the Battlecomp because the bullet might come apart & cause baffle damage.

[ST911]

Contact your training provider and host location to verify precisely what you need...green, or just frang...and how much of it. The answer can substantially affect price and availability. They may also be able to point you to a vendor with whom either has a relationship or allocation.

Depending on the who/what/where of your class, they may accept some of the available "varmint grenades" as frangible, or frang-enough. They may also have no idea what you're talking about or why that's an option, either.

Many commercial frang loads are a little under-powered, or more variable. You will likely want to verify function and trajectory deviations.

Reclass'ed AA40 is sometimes available. For a time, it was price pointed with regular ball.

Google gave me this: https://www.ammunitiontogo.com/index.php/cName/223-556-frangible

[Medusa]

Damage to what? From what I understand, frangible ammo shouldn't be fired through some suppressors & muzzle devices similar in construction to the Battlecomp because the bullet might come apart & cause baffle damage.
There’s a thread from 2011 discussing barrel erosion.

[Medusa]

thanks, I ran that search last night and will ask the trainers exactly what’s ok....I just also wanted to minimize wear and tear if they say, frang is all that is needed. Of course cost is a factor as well. I definitely want to test it and work with it at my home range before the class.



Contact your training provider and host location to verify precisely what you need...green, or just frang...and how much of it. The answer can substantially affect price and availability. They may also be able to point you to a vendor with whom either has a relationship or allocation.

Depending on the who/what/where of your class, they may accept some of the available "varmint grenades" as frangible, or frang-enough. They may also have no idea what you're talking about or why that's an option, either.

Many commercial frang loads are a little under-powered, or more variable. You will likely want to verify function and trajectory deviations.

Reclass'ed AA40 is sometimes available. For a time, it was price pointed with regular ball.

Google gave me this: https://www.ammunitiontogo.com/index.php/cName/223-556-frangible

[runcible]

MistWolf,

Some forms of frang strongly correlate with increased rates of throat erosion and\or barrel wear; predominately the former. While there are some modern frang options that are gentler on guns than duty chamberings; those are likely not the sorts that are being used in large volumes by organizations and\or facilities. I understand that some of the lesser known frang options have different primers involved that are associated with increased wear of other parts, but that's outside of my lane and it's not the main issue associated with the frang.

With that said, the main issue for my workplace with frang is the not-wholly-unfounded perception that the frang doesn't shoot as cleanly as the duty stuff, though it does recoil less as well. It's all a wash for me, as a less-dirty gun and a more-dirty gun take the same amount of time to clean for me... No gun that I've shot out the barrel of had frang as an identified contributing factor.

[Medusa]

Which ones in your experience runcible are the ones prone to such erosion? This is what I’m trying to avoid. Which are the better ones? Dirty I can live with and fix. I understand it’s ‘only’ 1000 rounds but still.

[Medusa]

Sorry, weird dbl tap

[MistWolf]

There’s a thread from 2011 discussing barrel erosion.

Gotcha

[Darth_Uno]

https://www.TargetSportsUSA.com/federal-lake-city-556x45mm-ammo-50-grain-non-toxic-frangible-soft-point-xm556nt1-p-78473.aspx

Looks like they’re sold out now, but I’ve been using this. Runs fine through several of my AR pistols.

I’m not overly concerned about excessive wear as I don’t shoot a high volume, and it’s spread out over a couple rifles and pistols. Even 1000 rounds isn’t that much. Plus possibly slightly accelerated wear is IMO an acceptable tradeoff for shooting steel vs boring paper.


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[runcible]

Pardon the tardy follow-up; this is pretty close to what we used to use at that place: https://www.ammunitiontogo.com/product_info.php/pName/1000rds-9mm-speer-lawman-100gr-rht-frangible-ammo which also appears to have the tungsten content in the bullet composition that is one of the main contributors to accelerated wear.

Were information more freely accessible, I'd sort ammunition by external composition and sort out those with an exterior that has greater hardness than baseline copper; but that's not always readily accessible data.

For what it's worth, the round that has the greatest increased rate of throat-erosion and feed ramp wear is the M855A1, given that the protruding\exposed steel penetrator gouges both feedramps during feeding and the higher pressure of the cartridge stresses adjacent parts during firing; but that's separate of the frang concern.

I apologize for not being able to offer specifics.

[Tokarev]

.. and you were buying your own and wanted to minimize wear and tear on your weapon, what would you use ?

Do you reload? If so, consider loading your own.


https://hi-techammo.com/collections/223-projectiles-bullets/products/223-42-gr-sinterfire-frangible-bullets

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[Medusa]

nope. Maybe some day. in any event lots of classes I’ve been in specify factory ammo only. I will file away the link for future need though, thank you.



Do you reload? If so, consider loading your own.


https://hi-techammo.com/collections/223-projectiles-bullets/products/223-42-gr-sinterfire-frangible-bullets

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[Medusa]

To follow up on this, I heard back from the trainers and they said the core requirement is lead free projectiles; no requirement for lead free primers. They specifically mentioned open tip lead free projectiles, an example cited being Barnes TSX, as ok. However, when i was looking, commercial rounds with these projectiles seemed kinda spendy. Perhaps I didn’t look long enough, carefully enough.

Therefore, I grabbed 300 of these https://www.targetsportsusa.com/winchester-usa-frangible-556x45mm-nato-45-grain-jacketed-frangible-ammunition-p-3624.aspx after getting the specific ok from them, so i can try them out and see how they work in my carbine before class.

[Tokarev]

lots of classes...specify factory ammo only.

All my ammo is "factory ammo." [emoji6]



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[Medusa]

All my ammo is "factory ammo." [emoji6]



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I’ve always understood that to mean new, non reman, commercial ammo.

[Tokarev]

In case you're still looking or will need more later:

https://www.sgammo.com/product/223-556mm-ammo/500-round-case-federal-556-x-45mm-50-gr-semi-jacketed-frangible-rifle-cartrid

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