Lightweight LPVOs?

[Nephrology]

So one of the uppers I sent out for GB pinning has a 16" 416R SS barrel that is pretty reasonably accurate. Currently it has a Vortex Viper PST Gen 1 1-4x in an ADM QD mount. It's a pretty decent scope - especially for what I paid ($400 shipped, with mount) - but I can tell that I will want to upgrade this eventually. Because the election isn't that far off, my gun funds between now and then will go to ammo and mags as long as they are still reasonably priced. That said I'd like to start doing my homework on what I might replace it with down the line. Let's call budget at around $1k but I could be convinced to go over too, especially if I delay purchase til after the election.

While the easier answer would be the new Razor, this rifle has a very lightweight rail system and is pretty handy despite the heavy barrel, so I am looking for something closer in weight to the Viper (~16oz). While everyone is moving on to 1-8 or higher mag, I would be OK with 1-4 as long as I didn't downgrade in glass quality or go up much in weight. High mag, of course, would be better. Durability/reliability is an important consideration as well. Also want a decent reticle that works on low and high end mag... really don't want a duplex.

So : what is out there that I should start saving my shekels for? I've looked into the Trijicon TR24, which seems like it might be a nice upgrade, but I've heard mixed things about the durability of some of Trijicon's LPVOs as well as their customer service. I don't know their lineup well enough to distinguish between the good and the bad Trijicon lpvos. I've been very satisfied with Vortex, but as noted their nicer options are pretty chonky. I've heard good things about the Burris XTR so that is on my radar. Don't know much about Meopta, Leupold, or SWFA offerings. Have heard the Nightforce NX line might be disappointing, glass-wise.

Any thoughts? I also imagine this market will change over the next ~6 months so I will be keeping my eye on new developments too.

[SteveB]

So one of the uppers I sent out for GB pinning has a 16" 416R SS barrel that is pretty reasonably accurate. Currently it has a Vortex Viper PST Gen 1 1-4x in an ADM QD mount. It's a pretty decent scope - especially for what I paid ($400 shipped, with mount) - but I can tell that I will want to upgrade this eventually. Because the election isn't that far off, my gun funds between now and then will go to ammo and mags as long as they are still reasonably priced. That said I'd like to start doing my homework on what I might replace it with down the line. Let's call budget at around $1k but I could be convinced to go over too, especially if I delay purchase til after the election.

While the easier answer would be the new Razor, this rifle has a very lightweight rail system and is pretty handy despite the heavy barrel, so I am looking for something closer in weight to the Viper (~16oz). While everyone is moving on to 1-8 or higher mag, I would be OK with 1-4 as long as I didn't downgrade in glass quality or go up much in weight. High mag, of course, would be better. Durability/reliability is an important consideration as well. Also want a decent reticle that works on low and high end mag... really don't want a duplex.

So : what is out there that I should start saving my shekels for? I've looked into the Trijicon TR24, which seems like it might be a nice upgrade, but I've heard mixed things about the durability of some of Trijicon's LPVOs as well as their customer service. I don't know their lineup well enough to distinguish between the good and the bad Trijicon lpvos. I've been very satisfied with Vortex, but as noted their nicer options are pretty chonky. I've heard good things about the Burris XTR so that is on my radar. Don't know much about Meopta, Leupold, or SWFA offerings. Have heard the Nightforce NX line might be disappointing, glass-wise.

Any thoughts? I also imagine this market will change over the next ~6 months so I will be keeping my eye on new developments too.

For your price and weight requirements, I’d look at Leupold 5HD or 6HD. Leupold offers good value and are lighter than most competitors. Their 1-6 scopes weigh 13-14 oz. You don’t mention reticles or the primary use of this rifle, but there are many choices out there, including good availability of discontinued but useful Leupolds on the used market.

[Nephrology]

For your price and weight requirements, I’d look at Leupold 5HD or 6HD. Leupold offers good value and are lighter than most competitors. Their 1-6 scopes weigh 13-14 oz. You don’t mention reticles or the primary use of this rifle, but there are many choices out there, including good availability of discontinued but useful Leupolds on the used market.

I did look at Leupold - reticle and price were the biggest turn-offs for me. the 5HD seems to be about perfect for my budget/needs, but it seems like they're only offered in Duplex reticles. I don't exactly need a super busy reticle, but some kind of mil marking would be nice at least to estimate holdover past 100yd.

edit: Actually, the VX-6 might be basically exactly what I am lookin for.

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1017695950

Strong contender.

[SteveB]

I did look at Leupold - reticle and price were the biggest turn-offs for me. the 5HD seems to be about perfect for my budget/needs, but it seems like they're only offered in Duplex reticles. I don't exactly need a super busy reticle, but some kind of mil marking would be nice at least to estimate holdover past 100yd.

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/868694998

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/868695694

[Nephrology]

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/868694998

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/868695694

Very tempting. I won't be buying right now, but the VX6 will be on the list for sure.

Do you have a sense of how good the illumination is? one of my complaints about the PST 1-4 is the illumination isn't really daylight bright. Very happy with the illumination on the PST Gen II 1-6, would want something equivalent in brightness.

[Paul D]

Very tempting. I won't be buying right now, but the VX6 will be on the list for sure.

Do you have a sense of how good the illumination is? one of my complaints about the PST 1-4 is the illumination isn't really daylight bright. Very happy with the illumination on the PST Gen II 1-6, would want something equivalent in brightness.I have a Firedot on my 5HD scope. It is bright on Max to see clearly in AZ midway light. It is small though, maybe 2 MOA. It is not quite as bright as my Vortex PSTII 1-6 set on its max brightness.

Sent from my moto g(7) using Tapatalk

[LittleLebowski]

CS Tactical

[GyroF-16]

Subscribed...

I’m on a similar “I’d like to get a good LPVO someday” path.
I’ll be interested to see what you (we) learn.

[David S.]

FWIW, the PST 1-6 is Steve Fisher’s top pick at that price point. They come up fairly regularly in the ARFcom and M4C Equipment Exhanges for about $600.

I think I’ve seen Razor II-E’s for a bit over a grand.

[Nephrology]

FWIW, the PST 1-6 is Steve Fisher’s top pick at that price point. They come up fairly regularly in the ARFcom and M4C Equipment Exhanges for about $600.

I think I’ve seen Razor II-E’s for a bit over a grand.

I have a PST 1-6 on my other Recce and its an awesome scope. I would get a second if it wasn't so dang heavy. This isn't a problem on my other rifle which I basically resigned to being a pig, but the gun out for smithing is basically exactly as heavy as I'd wanted it to be.

For reference, here are the 2 rifles I am talking about:

Big boi:

https://i.imgur.com/hQDsfLW.jpg

Skinny boi:

https://i.imgur.com/HoW5CB1.jpg

I'll probably eventually ditch the big light on the 2nd rifle for something smaller and lighter, too.

[David S.]

I misunderstood.

[Default.mp3]

Most of these will be well outside of your budget, but they are options that haven't been mentioned that are fairly lightweight with reticles that have more information than a duplex and are from reputable manufacturers without a reputation for fragility:


March D8SV24FIML
Kahles K16i
Leupold MK6
Swarovski Z8i


You might be able to find a used MK6 or K16i for cheap given that people seem enamored with the new Vortex Razor.

[Nephrology]

Most of these will be well outside of your budget, but they are options that haven't been mentioned that are fairly lightweight with reticles that have more information than a duplex and are from reputable manufacturers without a reputation for fragility:


March D8SV24FIML
Kahles K16i
Leupold MK6
Swarovski Z8i


You might be able to find a used MK6 or K16i for cheap given that people seem enamored with the new Vortex Razor.

You know, on second thought, I may be willing to expand my budget on this one. The Vortex PST I have on it is more than adequate for now, and I would rather buy the right scope than compromise on something that isn't a substantial improvement over the Viper.

That's sort of my concern re: the lower end Trijicons - they seem like they might be better, but not THAT much better than the PST.

[HCM]

Most of these will be well outside of your budget, but they are options that haven't been mentioned that are fairly lightweight with reticles that have more information than a duplex and are from reputable manufacturers without a reputation for fragility:


March D8SV24FIML
Kahles K16i
Leupold MK6
Swarovski Z8i


You might be able to find a used MK6 or K16i for cheap given that people seem enamored with the new Vortex Razor.

Cheap is relative - $ 1500 is cheap for a K16i

Maybe add a used NX8 to that list. They can be found used for sub $1500 if you are patient.

Default is spot on that the Vortex 1-10 is helping push more used 1-6 and 1-8 on the market.

What is your budget ?

Good, light cheap pick two.

If 1-4 is acceptable but you just want better glass the Steiner P4Xi is daylight bright IME. Prices have gone up but they can still be had used for about $500.

If you are willing to look used IME the Bushnell tactical elite 1-6 is a sleeper the FFP is barely daylight bright but not Aimpoint bright like the Vortex. The FFP and SFP reticles are good BDC ‘s at 6x

[HCM]

You know, on second thought, I may be willing to expand my budget on this one. The Vortex PST I have on it is more than adequate for now, and I would rather buy the right scope than compromise on something that isn't a substantial improvement over the Viper.

That's sort of my concern re: the lower end Trijicons - they seem like they might be better, but not THAT much better than the PST.

The TR24 with the triangle reticle is a great alternative to an RDS with a magnifier. It is durable IME but it sounds like you are looking for more of a DMR scope.

[Nephrology]

The TR24 with the triangle reticle is a great alternative to an RDS with a magnifier. It is durable IME but it sounds like you are looking for more of a DMR scope.

Oh, quite the opposite. I want a light LPVO that is as close to aimpoint-like function and durability. I don't really need high mag but I won't say no to it either. Priorities are roughly in order:

1. Light (~16oz ideally, less if possible)
2. Durable
3. Daytime bright illumination
4. Good glass
5. Good reticle

As mentioned above, if I need to save and spend more to get what I want, I'm happy to do that. How does the TR24 compare the Viper Gen 1? If it's better but not substantially so per requirements above then I'd rather wait until I can afford something that will be a real upgrade in quality. Like I said, not in a rush to buy this.

edit: at least from some preliminary digging, the Kahles K16i seems to check a lot of boxes. The Bushnell also seems interesting - would be curious to know how much of a step up from the PST it is.

That said, I also saw a K16i sell for $1400 on ARfcom EE so maybe I will just hold out for a good used listing and not compromise.

[HCM]

Oh, quite the opposite. I want a light LPVO that is as close to aimpoint-like function and durability. I don't really need high mag but I won't say no to it either. Priorities are roughly in order:

1. Light (~16oz ideally, less if possible)
2. Durable
3. Daytime bright illumination
4. Good glass
5. Good reticle

As mentioned above, if I need to save and spend more to get what I want, I'm happy to do that. How does the TR24 compare the Viper Gen 1? If it's better but not substantially so per requirements above then I'd rather wait until I can afford something that will be a real upgrade in quality. Like I said, not in a rush to buy this.

The TR24, like the prior Accupoints I’ve tried has great glass, clearer and with better edge to edge quality than the Gen 1 PST.

The TR24 is illuminated by a combo of fiber optic and tritium. It can be a an issue in certain lighting conditions like dawn/dusk and dark going into light. The he FO requires at least some external light and the tritium is not bright enough to overpower the transitional lighting. The bigger triangle reticle helps with this. The newer accupoints actually come with a sunshade to tone down the FO in bright sunlight. The duplex or mil dot reticle with just the center illuminated dot is, IMHO useless in the the accupoints.

It’s a great range, gun games, daytime use optic.

Another option would be a used ACOG with an offset or top mounted MRDS. I personally prefer the 3x TA33 and the 3.5x TA11 to the more common 4x models but would consider a 4x with a reverse cantilever mount like the Larue USMC or KRAM if the price was right. The 3x and 3.5x both have much more forgiving eye box and eye relief.

The only downside to the ACOG for some is there is no focus adjustment. The ACOG is made for young soldiers with good eyes. One advantage to LVPOs is if you wear RX glasses you can adjust the focus to be useable with your uncorrected vision.

[FPS]

I have had the Trijicon TR25 green triangle post for several years on my HD gun and love it. Glass is excellent and the reticle works great for fast shooting. The triangle is much sharper and more useful for my eyes than a red dot since I have astigmatism. In dark environments using a flashlight, the triangle will go black but i dont see that as a big deal.

[Nephrology]

The TR24, like the prior Accupoints I’ve tried has great glass, clearer and with better edge to edge quality than the Gen 1 PST.

The TR24 is illuminated by a combo of fiber optic and tritium. It can be a an issue in certain lighting conditions like dawn/dusk and dark going into light. The he FO requires at least some external light and the tritium is not bright enough to overpower the transitional lighting. The bigger triangle reticle helps with this. The newer accupoints actually come with a sunshade to tone down the FO in bright sunlight. The duplex or mil dot reticle with just the center illuminated dot is, IMHO useless in the the accupoints.

It’s a great range, gun games, daytime use optic.

Hm. That is appealing. How would you feel about the TR24 on a HD rifle? I partially envision this rifle as being the ever-elusive "do all" rifle so its utility in that role is something I am thinking about as well.

I'll have to think about the triangle reticle, could see myself either loving or hating it. The rifle has a 416R SS barrel that has proven pretty accurate so I don't want to short change the gun, either.

[dontshakepandas]

Hm. That is appealing. How would you feel about the TR24 on a HD rifle? I partially envision this rifle as being the ever-elusive "do all" rifle so its utility in that role is something I am thinking about as well.

I'll have to think about the triangle reticle, could see myself either loving or hating it. The rifle has a 416R SS barrel that has proven pretty accurate so I don't want to short change the gun, either.

I tried a tr25 (same reticle but 1-6) and Kahles K16i on a HD rifle a few years ago and ended up back with an Aimpoint.

The triangle can wash out if you are shooting from a dark area to a lit area or if you are using a weapon light. You can still see the reticle, but it will be black and not as eye catching and I’d prefer battery powered for that reason.

The triangle reticle not only doesn’t have hold overs on the reticle for longer range shots, but the posts will actively block your target if you try to hold over.

Even with the best LPVO you still add weight and shrink the eye box compared to an Aimpoint micro.

They can absolutely still work fire that purpose, but realize that you are making sacrifices. With the size of my home/property the magnification doesn’t offer any added benefit for a home defense purposes.

You mentioned not wanting to short change the gun due to its accuracy, but I’d lean more towards not wanting to short change myself out on the intended use of the rifle. If you can only have one rifle, setting it up to do everything makes, but realistically if you want a HD gun you may be better off taking the ~$2000 a Kahles + mount costs and getting a SBR/pistol and Aimpoint.

All that said, I really like LPVOs but I’m not too sensitive to a few extra ounces. I kept my razor 1-6 gen 2 E over the Kahles for a 13.9” do everything rifle since I prefer the illumination, reticle, build quality, illumination dial, and extra money in my pocket.

I have a gen 3 on order for a more long range proposed rifle with Centurion Arms MK12 barrel.

[Nephrology]

I tried a tr25 (same reticle but 1-6) and Kahles K16i on a HD rifle a few years ago and ended up back with an Aimpoint.

The triangle can wash out if you are shooting from a dark area to a lit area or if you are using a weapon light. You can still see the reticle, but it will be black and not as eye catching and I’d prefer battery powered for that reason.

The triangle reticle not only doesn’t have hold overs on the reticle for longer range shots, but the posts will actively block your target if you try to hold over.

Even with the best LPVO you still add weight and shrink the eye box compared to an Aimpoint micro.

They can absolutely still work fire that purpose, but realize that you are making sacrifices. With the size of my home/property the magnification doesn’t offer any added benefit for a home defense purposes.

You mentioned not wanting to short change the gun due to its accuracy, but I’d lean more towards not wanting to short change myself out on the intended use of the rifle. If you can only have one rifle, setting it up to do everything makes, but realistically if you want a HD gun you may be better off taking the ~$2000 a Kahles + mount costs and getting a SBR/pistol and Aimpoint.

All that said, I really like LPVOs but I’m not too sensitive to a few extra ounces. I kept my razor 1-6 gen 2 E over the Kahles for a 13.9” do everything rifle since I prefer the illumination, reticle, build quality, illumination dial, and extra money in my pocket.

I have a gen 3 on order for a more long range proposed rifle with Centurion Arms MK12 barrel.

I already have a pair of SBRs with Aimpoint PROs that I am quite happy with for true HD purposes. For the 16" with the SS barrel, I'm pretty certain I want the LPVO - I just want it to be of comparable quality/durability (or, as close as I can reasonably get).

I might pull the PST off my other gun and see how it balances. Maybe the 8oz isn't as big of a deal, but I do think I want something lighter for this rifle.

[PearTree]

If you are happy with a 1-4 my vote goes Steiner. I had an h2 prior to switching to the Steiner, the dot is definitely daylight bright and the glass is very clear.

If you are talking over 1k, a kahles 1-6 or night force 1-8 would be my pick.

[HCM]

Hm. That is appealing. How would you feel about the TR24 on a HD rifle? I partially envision this rifle as being the ever-elusive "do all" rifle so its utility in that role is something I am thinking about as well.

I'll have to think about the triangle reticle, could see myself either loving or hating it. The rifle has a 416R SS barrel that has proven pretty accurate so I don't want to short change the gun, either.

As long as the rifle has a light it would be fine.

You have to PID anything you would shoot in a HD scenario anyway.

The triangle is big enough that it draws enough light from the FO and tritium to be feasible. Use it as a large red /green dot close up, inside 50. use the tip of the triangle (zeroed to 100y) from 50-150. 200 - cover, 300 use the post at the base of the triangle.

If you want a red dot with a magnifier without the downsides that are inherent the combo, the TR24 is GTG.

If the triangle gives you pause, STEINER PX4i.

[Nephrology]

As long as the rifle has a light it would be fine.

You have to PID anything you would shoot in a HD scenario anyway.

The triangle is big enough that it draws enough light from the FO and tritium to be feasible. Use it as a large red /green dot close up, inside 50. use the tip of the triangle (zeroed to 100y) from 50-150. 200 - cover, 300 use the post at the base of the triangle.

If you want a red dot with a magnifier without the downsides that are inherent the combo, the TR24 is GTG.

If the triangle gives you pause, STEINER PX4i.

Hmmm. That's something to think about. Are the PX4is that big of a step up? Mostly I have mixed feelings about paying $600 for an optic that was $450 a few years back. I looked at the Steiner pretty carefully when I was shopping for my first LPVO and ended up with the PST Gen 2 for this reason (and a couple others).

Leaning towards the TR24 but also looking at the spendier options, eg the Kahles. Will keep doing reading on M4c, etc.

[HCM]

Hmmm. That's something to think about. Are the PX4is that big of a step up? Mostly I have mixed feelings about paying $600 for an optic that was $450 a few years back. I looked at the Steiner pretty carefully when I was shopping for my first LPVO and ended up with the PST Gen 2 for this reason (and a couple others).

Leaning towards the TR24 but also looking at the spendier options, eg the Kahles. Will keep doing reading on M4c, etc.

The PX4i was $550 new - and it was an under priced sleeper. You can still find them usedfor $500ish.

The PST gen 2 is ok but to get the extra 2x you are adding a lot of weight. No freel lunch.

[navyman8903]

For your price range, even with the new pricing on Big Daddy Unlimited you can get a Steiner P4Xi for $600 brand new, with a 30mm scalarworks mount for $306. Coming in at $906 for your budget.

I've pushed my SR16 out to 312 yards reliably with the P4Xi and felt comfortable doing that. With the black hills 77gr TMK's of course. You will not find someone with time behind a Steiner P4Xi that will talk shit about the glass or how capable it is for a 1-4 in this world of 1-6's, 1-8's and soon to be more 1-10's I'm sure. Even with the new pricing, by that I mean a gouge lol, but even with that it's a lot of glass for the money.

54751
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As for 1-6's I would recommend the Leupold MK6 which is FFP and you can get a few different reticles. Clear glass, tight eyebox......same weight as the Steiner P4Xi......Very spendy.

1-8's. I love my Trijicon Accupower 1-8. I've seen them on sale for the Red Mil and green MIL I have the Red MIL.....for $800-850. Which is fuckin nuts for the quality of optic that it is......but she's all of her 25oz. I love mine and plan to buy at least 2 more for other projects. But I acknowledge it's not the best out there. But for even $900 it's a no brainer. FFP, MIL, precise adjustments, clear glass, 34mm tube (much preferred) and easy to use? Camman. It helped me snap off a .75" group at 100 yards with my HK MR556, with the Geissele trigger, in the Super precision mount. Also 77gr TMK Black Hills.

54757
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[rob_s]

Would the sclarworks mount be considered the lightest reliable mount?

[SteveB]

If you are happy with a 1-4 my vote goes Steiner. I had an h2 prior to switching to the Steiner, the dot is definitely daylight bright and the glass is very clear.

If you are talking over 1k, a kahles 1-6 or night force 1-8 would be my pick.

I have:

1-4: Trijicon, Steiner (sold my NF)
1-6: Leupold (2), Kahles, Swarovski (sold my Vortex Razor)
1-8: Swarovski

I agree with the above statement; short of a war zone, if you want a 1-4, the Steiner P4Xi is a solid choice. For quality glass, as you go up in power, you add cost and weight

[SteveB]

Would the sclarworks mount be considered the lightest reliable mount?

That’s my sense of things. I have Scalarworks mounts for MRO, Aimpoint Micro and RMR (Benelli M2). I plan on trying one for an LPVO.

[fatdog]

Another vote for the Steiner. I was able to dial it in and regularly hit a full size steel "B/C" target at 535 yards this weekend using my 20" freefloat AR and 75gr Hornady's, spun the turret for a 12.5 moa come up, it made that possible for an old shaky person with bad eye sight.

The dot is bright, the glass is clear, it gathers light well for its size, and the 1/2 moa turrets are spinable and repeatable if you want to use them, which I do.

[navyman8903]

Would the sclarworks mount be considered the lightest reliable mount?

Yes.

[rob_s]

Would the sclarworks mount be considered the lightest reliable mount?


That’s my sense of things. I have Scalarworks mounts for MRO, Aimpoint Micro and RMR (Benelli M2). I plan on trying one for an LPVO.


Yes.

Dang. Didn’t realize the price.
https://scalarworks.com/shop/quick-detach-mounts/leap-07/

So I’m going to go try and find a used Steiner for the mythical “$400 used all the time” price and then put it in a $400 mount? Ouch.

So what’s the next most reliable lightweight mount?:p

[PearTree]

Dang. Didn’t realize the price.
https://scalarworks.com/shop/quick-detach-mounts/leap-07/

So I’m going to go try and find a used Steiner for the mythical “$400 used all the time” price and then put it in a $400 mount? Ouch.

So what’s the next most reliable lightweight mount?:p

I went with the vortex/seekins mount as I don’t need qd features, it’s 6.5oz, and it’s a lot cheaper but still solid. The nf unimount I believe is 5.5oz, it’s about 100 cheaper than the leap maybe more with sale prices.

[ranger]

I have multiple LVPOs in Aero Precision lightweight mounts with no issues.

[Default.mp3]

Would the sclarworks mount be considered the lightest reliable mount?No. Scalarworks would be the lightest out of the tool-less removal, but plenty of mounts are around the same weight or even lighter, such as the Badger C1, Nightforce A496, Aero Precision Ultralights, and some of the Geissele mounts (there are open source numbers from 5.1 oz to 7.2 oz, which I'm guessing is due to the differing length, height, and sizes of the different mounts). I'd hazard the Sig Alpha3 mounts are also in the ballpark, since it shares the same 7075 skeletonized structure as the Badger and Geissele mounts.

The Badger is probably the real hotness right now, assuming you don't need tool-less install/uninstall, given its modularity. I probably would have gone to those myself if they had existed when I was looking for mounts (currently using Spuhrs).

[navyman8903]

No. Scalarworks would be the lightest out of the tool-less removal, but plenty of mounts are around the same weight or even lighter, such as the Badger C1, Nightforce A496, Aero Precision Ultralights, and some of the Geissele mounts (there are open source numbers from 5.1 oz to 7.2 oz, which I'm guessing is due to the differing length, height, and sizes of the different mounts). I'd hazard the Sig Alpha3 mounts are also in the ballpark, since it shares the same 7075 skeletonized structure as the Badger and Geissele mounts.

The Badger is probably the real hotness right now, assuming you don't need tool-less install/uninstall, given its modularity. I probably would have gone to those myself if they had existed when I was looking for mounts (currently using Spuhrs).

He did say lightest reliable mount. I would submit that the Geissele and Scalarworks are proven for serious use. They also maintain repeatability and centricity.

[navyman8903]

Dang. Didn’t realize the price.
https://scalarworks.com/shop/quick-detach-mounts/leap-07/

So I’m going to go try and find a used Steiner for the mythical “$400 used all the time” price and then put it in a $400 mount? Ouch.

So what’s the next most reliable lightweight mount?:p

Get on Big Daddy Unlimited. Yeah it's $10 a month, and the prices are not black Friday good. But they're consistently solid and they're excellent with shipping. The mount normally is like $410, on BDU it's $306. That's where I got both the optic and the mount. Definitely worth the subscription fee IMO. But it's up to you.

[rob_s]

I think I may have an aero in a box in the workshop, so that may be the most "reliable" at "free" may be more befitting the price of the Steiner ;)

It's amazing to me how many options there are out there for this stuff these days. I recall having to use a GG&G estended top rail with scope rings attached to try and get an EER scope mounted back in the day before all this stuff.

[Grey]

Get on Big Daddy Unlimited. Yeah it's $10 a month, and the prices are not black Friday good. But they're consistently solid and they're excellent with shipping. The mount normally is like $410, on BDU it's $306. That's where I got both the optic and the mount. Definitely worth the subscription fee IMO. But it's up to you.Wow that's good.

Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk

[Default.mp3]

He did say lightest reliable mount. I would submit that the Geissele and Scalarworks are proven for serious use. They also maintain repeatability and centricity.Are you saying the Badger and Nightforce options are not reliable? Aero is a bit more dicey to declare fully duty-proof, but it seems durable enough for typical civilian use; plenty of posts out there asking about if they're too light for use, and very little by way of negative feedback on their durability.

[navyman8903]

Are you saying the Badger and Nightforce options are not reliable? Aero is a bit more dicey to declare fully duty-proof, but it seems durable enough for typical civilian use; plenty of posts out there asking about if they're too light for use, and very little by way of negative feedback on their durability.

No. What I am saying is the Geissele and Scalarworks mounts have been tested. Both in the military, LE and civilian sectors. SOCOM runs the Geissele and there's a bunch of high speed dudes running the Scalarworks also.

I was honestly nervous about the Scalarworks LPVO mount, but I've come around to it. That is not saying your two favorites are bad. I'm saying those two are tested by standards and people I trust, have proven track records, and as far as the Geissele is fielded. The Geissele also maintains centricity which is very important. The LEAP seems to also adhere to that standard.

[Default.mp3]

No. What I am saying is the Geissele and Scalarworks mounts have been tested. Both in the military, LE and civilian sectors. SOCOM runs the Geissele and there's a bunch of high speed dudes running the Scalarworks also.

I was honestly nervous about the Scalarworks LPVO mount, but I've come around to it. That is not saying your two favorites are bad. I'm saying those two are tested by standards and people I trust, have proven track records, and as far as the Geissele is fielded. The Geissele also maintains centricity which is very important. The LEAP seems to also adhere to that standard.I mean, Badger has long been around for a long time making rings and mounts, and their new C1 unimounts are also in use with SOCOM and coolguys; same thing with the Nightforce, hence my confusion as to why you would consider them less vetted than Geissele, much less Scalarworks. Scalarworks makes great stuff, but Badger and Nightforce mounts are very much known quantities.

[navyman8903]

I mean, Badger has long been around for a long time making rings and mounts, and their new C1 unimounts are also in use with SOCOM and coolguys; same thing with the Nightforce, hence my confusion as to why you would consider them less vetted than Geissele, much less Scalarworks. Scalarworks makes great stuff, but Badger and Nightforce mounts are very much known quantities.

I've seen badger ordinance rings on deployment, but I haven't seen their mounts in the field. I've only been around SEALS, Force Recon, and 2 MEU's. I'm not saying they're not. I'm just saying I haven't seen them.

Nightforce makes good stuff, but I also haven't seen them in use.

Again, I'm not taking shots. I'm also not saying they're bad, I just don't have any experience with them and the ones I have experience with I like/don't see a reason to swap out.

[Nephrology]

Hmmm this has me reconsidering the Steiner. Wish I could compare it with the Trijicon side by side.

[navyman8903]

Hmmm this has me reconsidering the Steiner. Wish I could compare it with the Trijicon side by side.

Honestly right now the Steiner P4Xi and the Trijicon accupower 1-4 are the kings of the 1-4 bracket as of today. I haven't seen the Credo 1-4 yet. But I've heard nothing but praise of the Credo line from those who have ordered/run them.

I'm going to give the Credo 1-6 a shot since it's FFP and not MK6 money.

[Nephrology]

Honestly right now the Steiner P4Xi and the Trijicon accupower 1-4 are the kings of the 1-4 bracket as of today. I haven't seen the Credo 1-4 yet. But I've heard nothing but praise of the Credo line from those who have ordered/run them.

I'm going to give the Credo 1-6 a shot since it's FFP and not MK6 money.

I was just looking at the Credos. The 1-6 is only 3oz more than the 1-4 so it is also quite interesting to me as well. I'd probably get an SFP with the broken circle reticle. Hmmm....

If they are truly daylight bright it sounds like they might beat out the P4Xi and accupower in 1-4.

Edit: these two have my attention. I'm seeing different weights on different websites - hard to tell how much of a savings you get with the 1-4. Looks like about 3 oz.

https://www.primaryarms.com/trijicon-credo-1-4x24-rifle-scope-red-bdc-segmented-circle-reticle-223-matte-black

https://www.primaryarms.com/trijicon-credo-1-6x24-ffp-rifle-scope-red-mrad-segmented-circle-reticle

What's the deal with the HX line? I can't tell how this model varies from the 1-6 listed previously.

https://www.natchezss.com/trijicon-credo-hx-1-6x24-ffp-30mm-rifle-scope-w-red-moa-segment-circle-low-capped-adjusters.html

[rob_s]

HX appears to be “hunting”. Reticle are different, for one thing.

https://www.trijicon.com/products/product-family/trijicon-credo-1-4x24-riflescope
MRAD and BDC, red or green


https://www.trijicon.com/products/product-family/trijicon-credo-hx-1-4x24-hunting-riflescope
MOA and Duplex, red or green

[GJM]

What are the reports on the Credo 1-4? A lightweight 1-4 checks a lot of boxes for me on an AR.

[Nephrology]

What are the reports on the Credo 1-4? A lightweight 1-4 checks a lot of boxes for me on an AR.

At least on paper the 1-6 SFP is only $100 and ~2-3oz more than the 1-6. I wonder if eyebox, etc is any different.

So far at least from my googling it seems like early adopters are a bit unimpressed and dont feel like its a big step up from the Accupower. I think that was on Brian Enos but for some reason having ahard time finding the link.

[Nephrology]

Also sort of curious about the Sig Tango6T line. I generally abhor anything/everything SIG, but it sounds like their Tango6T line is made by LOW and may have better illumination than trijicon options.

[Wake27]

On the mounts, the Badger C1s are slightly lighter than the G mounts of the same height. They have the obvious modularity that is rad, and the 1.7 mount is pretty much the best thing ever unless you’re in a niche a category.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[navyman8903]

Also sort of curious about the Sig Tango6T line. I generally abhor anything/everything SIG, but it sounds like their Tango6T line is made by LOW and may have better illumination than trijicon options.

I have yet to hear anything good.

[HCM]

Also sort of curious about the Sig Tango6T line. I generally abhor anything/everything SIG, but it sounds like their Tango6T line is made by LOW and may have better illumination than trijicon options.

SIG won some army contracts for SDM guns with the Tango6 but the one FFP example I actually got hands on was not daylight bright.

[rainman]

On the mounts, the Badger C1s are slightly lighter than the G mounts of the same height. They have the obvious modularity that is rad, and the 1.7 mount is pretty much the best thing ever unless you’re in a niche a category.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Does anyone know the best online source for Badger Ordnance?

Thanks.


-Rainman

[Wake27]

Does anyone know the best online source for Badger Ordnance?

Thanks.


-Rainman

Brownells carries most of their C1 line. Badger has a great LE/MIL discount too if you qualify and sign up for an account directly with them.

[rob_s]

What are the reports on the Credo 1-4? A lightweight 1-4 checks a lot of boxes for me on an AR.

Damn. I was hoping to be the first gun-hipster to back-slide into maxing out at 4x... :cool::p

[Nephrology]

Damn. I was hoping to be the first gun-hipster to back-slide into maxing out at 4x... :cool::p

Buy the March 1-4 for ultimate hipster optic.


I have yet to hear anything good.

Well, won't be the first time I've passed up the SIG option...

[Nephrology]

How about the Meopta Optika6 1-6? Anyone know much about it? Seems like it is well liked from what I can find but not many reviews.

[rob_s]

Buy the March 1-4 for ultimate hipster optic.

I guess I gotta opt for the poors hipster move. There was a time in my life when I'd happily drop $2k on a scope, but after years of doing that I'd rather have the $2k bandsaw ;)

[Nephrology]

I guess I gotta opt for the poors hipster move. There was a time in my life when I'd happily drop $2k on a scope, but after years of doing that I'd rather have the $2k bandsaw ;)

Speaking of which, after doing some reading on the Meopta, I feel like I may have found my scope...

[Grey]

I guess I gotta opt for the poors hipster move. There was a time in my life when I'd happily drop $2k on a scope, but after years of doing that I'd rather have the $2k bandsaw ;)If I had a spot for a 2k bandsaw I'd agree with you haha.

Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk

[Alembic]

Speaking of which, after doing some reading on the Meopta, I feel like I may have found my scope...

Paging JodyH

[GJM]

A thoughtful friend told me he is considering an Eotech and 3X magnifier in lieu of a LPV.

[EricP]

Speaking of which, after doing some reading on the Meopta, I feel like I may have found my scope...

I can’t speak to the 1-6, but I’ve been completely happy with my Meopta ZD 1-4. I like the 1x and 4x view, the brightness of the reticle is great, the battery life has been good, and has given me no trouble bouncing into 3-Gun barrels for the better part of a decade. The only thing I dislike is that the reticle is almost nonexistent without power. I too heard about them from Jody.

[rob_s]

A thoughtful friend told me he is considering an Eotech and 3X magnifier in lieu of a LPV.

Curious to see where D4 goes with this setup
https://www.facebook.com/303210778993/posts/10157363803623994/

[Nephrology]

I can’t speak to the 1-6, but I’ve been completely happy with my Meopta ZD 1-4. I like the 1x and 4x view, the brightness of the reticle is great, the battery life has been good, and has given me no trouble bouncing into 3-Gun barrels for the better part of a decade. The only thing I dislike is that the reticle is almost nonexistent without power. I too heard about them from Jody.

Well.... that's good to hear, because my TrumpBux finally came today. I took it as a sign from the Lord.

Grabbed an Optika6 1-6 SFP with the KDOT reticle from Eurooptic. Planning to use the ADM 30mm QD mount that the Vortex 1-4 is currently occupying. Will report back with my impression, looks like it should get here next week sometime.

[rainman]

Brownells carries most of their C1 line. Badger has a great LE/MIL discount too if you qualify and sign up for an account directly with them.

Thanks for that.

I've been using Geissele and very happy, but the C1 line brings some interesting options and the height seems to be a good compromise.


-Rainman

[bman940]

I can’t speak to the 1-6, but I’ve been completely happy with my Meopta ZD 1-4. I like the 1x and 4x view, the brightness of the reticle is great, the battery life has been good, and has given me no trouble bouncing into 3-Gun barrels for the better part of a decade. The only thing I dislike is that the reticle is almost nonexistent without power. I too heard about them from Jody.

I have been running the Meopta Optika6 1-6x24 for 9 months now and I am impressed. Mine sits on one of my favorite AR's that my son now thinks is his! A true 1X makes both eyes open shots a breeze. Even with a 24mm Obj. this optic is bright and makes getting on target easy. I opted for the SFP option thinking that FFP would tax my old eyes just a little too much. Check out Google for help finding this scope, they are out there. For the price, I think you will be very happy.

https://hosting.photobucket.com/albums/dd363/bman940/IMG_6264.jpeg

[schüler]

...
If you are willing to look used IME the Bushnell tactical elite 1-6 is a sleeper the FFP is barely daylight bright but not Aimpoint bright like the Vortex. The FFP and SFP reticles are good BDC ‘s at 6x

Tagging on the Bushnell recommmendation.

Bushnell 1-6.5 SMRS family is solid, there have been 3 generations to date IIRC: original SMRS, SMRS gen2 and now SMRS II.

The first gen FFP reticle wasnt very usable down low - too fine. Only the SFP made sense (BTR-2) and it was bangin. Glass was OK, resolution off center was poor. That said, I really liked the one I had in 3gun and could not beat it to death. 2nd gen glass improved a lot at some weight increase. 3rd gen SMRS II is GTG as well although Inmuch prefer the older BTR-2 style reticle for a close/intermediate 5.56 rifle.

SWFA SS HD are very reliable and I find the Donut of death great at close range. I don't think they have a 1-4 HD any more. The 1-6 HD is 14oz, but clunky rerticle.

The non-HD 1-4 is the best budget value ($400) out there IMO. I would love to see that reticle in a 1-6 HD.

Steiner P4Xi was on the heavy side, I like some thicker elements to a close range reticle though.

[HCM]

Tagging on the Bushnell recommmendation.

Bushnell 1-6.5 SMRS family is solid, there have been 3 generations to date IIRC: original SMRS, SMRS gen2 and now SMRS II.

The first gen FFP reticle wasnt very usable down low - too fine. Only the SFP made sense (BTR-2) and it was bangin. Glass was OK, resolution off center was poor. That said, I really liked the one I had in 3gun and could not beat it to death. 2nd gen glass improved a lot at some weight increase. 3rd gen SMRS II is GTG as well although Inmuch prefer the older BTR-2 style reticle for a close/intermediate 5.56 rifle.

SWFA SS HD are very reliable and I find the Donut of death great at close range. I don't think they have a 1-4 HD any more. The 1-6 HD is 14oz, but clunky rerticle.

The non-HD 1-4 is the best budget value ($400) out there IMO. I would love to see that reticle in a 1-6 HD.

Steiner P4Xi was on the heavy side, I like some thicker elements to a close range reticle though.

The only reason I do't own one or more SWFA 1-4 or 1-6 is the lack of capped turrets. Target turrets or dialing make no sense to me on a 1-4 or a 1-6 a

[ranger]

Speaking of which, after doing some reading on the Meopta, I feel like I may have found my scope...

Does Cameraland have that Meopta on sale today?

[Nephrology]

Does Cameraland have that Meopta on sale today?

They have the FFP Kdot, which I've read is not as bright as the SFP. Still a great price though.

[bman940]

Does Cameraland have that Meopta on sale today?

They have the FFP 1-6x24's for a great price, not the SFP scopes that I recall.

[schüler]

The only reason I do't own one or more SWFA 1-4 or 1-6 is the lack of capped turrets. Target turrets or dialing make no sense to me on a 1-4 or a 1-6 aYou'll be happy to know that for the last couple/several years they've offered capped or even capped-only on their LPVOs. They call it their "Undercover" turret feature.

[rob_s]

SWFA SS HD are very reliable and I find the Donut of death great at close range. I don't think they have a 1-4 HD any more. The 1-6 HD is 14oz, but clunky rerticle.

The non-HD 1-4 is the best budget value ($400) out there IMO. I would love to see that reticle in a 1-6 HD.


The only reason I do't own one or more SWFA 1-4 or 1-6 is the lack of capped turrets. Target turrets or dialing make no sense to me on a 1-4 or a 1-6 a


You'll be happy to know that for the last couple/several years they've offered capped or even capped-only on their LPVOs. They call it their "Undercover" turret feature.

this piqued my interest for sure.

I found the 1-x un-capped (only 14 oz! and $400!)
https://www.swfa.com/swfa-ss-1-4x24-tactical-30mm-riflescope-109309.html

and the 1-6 capped "undercover" (unfortunately more than twice the price and over 1.5x the weight)
https://www.swfa.com/swfa-ss-hd-1-6x24-tactical-30mm-riflescope.html

but I don't see a 1-4 capped?

[schüler]

this piqued my interest for sure.

I found the 1-x un-capped (only 14 oz! and $400!)
https://www.swfa.com/swfa-ss-1-4x24-tactical-30mm-riflescope-109309.html

and the 1-6 capped "undercover" (unfortunately more than twice the price and over 1.5x the weight)
https://www.swfa.com/swfa-ss-hd-1-6x24-tactical-30mm-riflescope.html

but I don't see a 1-4 capped?

Looks like they pared SS 1-4s down to just that one non-HD option. 1-4 HD was available capped/uncapped starting 2011.
I guess used is the only option, they run about $600 on the usual places.

[rob_s]

Looks like they pared SS 1-4s down to just that one non-HD option. 1-4 HD was available capped/uncapped starting 2011.
I guess used is the only option, they run about $600 on the usual places.

I even see where they announced them, but the links are now ded
https://www.snipershide.com/shooting/threads/swfa-ss-hd-1-4x24-scopes-finally-available.67168/

[Nephrology]

I have been running the Meopta Optika6 1-6x24 for 9 months now and I am impressed. Mine sits on one of my favorite AR's that my son now thinks is his! A true 1X makes both eyes open shots a breeze. Even with a 24mm Obj. this optic is bright and makes getting on target easy. I opted for the SFP option thinking that FFP would tax my old eyes just a little too much. Check out Google for help finding this scope, they are out there. For the price, I think you will be very happy.

https://hosting.photobucket.com/albums/dd363/bman940/IMG_6264.jpeg

Very nice! That's encouraging. What reticle did you get? I can't find very many good pictures of the KDOT reticle on this scope so I can't tell how easy it will be to pick up. How is the illumination in daylight? I also got the 1-6 SFP, KDOT reticle.

Would also be curious about how you think it compares to other comparable offers e.g. the Viper PST 1-6 or Steiner 1-4, etc, if you have experience with competitors.

Mine arrives on Sunday, and the upper described in the OP gets in the day after. Planning to zero it at the range Tues AM. Looking forward to it!!

[bman940]

This is the reticle I have on my Meopta Optika6. Easy to use and dial in with Strelok Pro

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/dd363/bman940/Screen_Shot_2020_05_29_at_12.41.07_PM.png

[Nephrology]

This is the reticle I have on my Meopta Optika6. Easy to use and dial in with Strelok Pro

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/dd363/bman940/Screen_Shot_2020_05_29_at_12.41.07_PM.png

What is this reticle listed as in Strelok? I'm finding KDOT and KDOT 2 but not this one (RD Kdot i think?)

[theJanitor]

A thoughtful friend told me he is considering an Eotech and 3X magnifier in lieu of a LPV.

This is where I'm headed. I just put EXPS3-0 on two rifles. The magnifier adds some capability, that the scope doesn't have, like the ability to use the mag as a standalone monocular. It doesn't add weight when you don't have it attached, and still retains red dot speed and durability. It's not 6x or 10x, but that's not my need either

[GJM]

This is where I'm headed. I just put EXPS3-0 on two rifles. The magnifier adds some capability, that the scope doesn't have, like the ability to use the mag as a standalone monocular. It doesn't add weight when you don't have it attached, and still retains red dot speed and durability. It's not 6x or 10x, but that's not my need either

A few days ago, I bought the Eotech Opmod bundle from Optics Planet.

[Nephrology]

A few days ago, I bought the Eotech Opmod bundle from Optics Planet.

Well, at least the pandemic should be over by the time you get it!

[SkiDevil]

On the mounts, the Badger C1s are slightly lighter than the G mounts of the same height. They have the obvious modularity that is rad, and the 1.7 mount is pretty much the best thing ever unless you’re in a niche a category.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I have one of the Badger Ordinance mounts. It is solid, albeit not cheap though. The 1.7 seems to be just the right height. I mounted a NightForce 1-4 NXS to my AR carbine. After couple thousand rounds no issues.

[Nephrology]

I have one of the Badger Ordinance mounts. It is solid, albeit not cheap though. The 1.7 seems to be just the right height. I mounted a NightForce 1-4 NXS to my AR carbine. After couple thousand rounds no issues.

So how does one get a membership the indoors range at the Fortress of Solitude?

[Nephrology]

Got the Optika6 1-6 in today!

Some quick and dirty initial impressions:

1. Heavier than the Vortex 1-4 it replaced but definitely lighter than the PST 1-6 on my other gun

2. Glass quality seems very comparable to the PST 1-6. If I had to say which was better, I'd give a very slight edge to the Meopta

3. Illumination is the biggest disappointment. In the bright Colorado sunlight, I would not quite say it is daylight bright. I dont have a lot of points of comparison, but while definitely brighter than the PST 1-4, it is not nearly as bright as the PST 1-6. That said, given that it requires a lot of light to wash out, I don't think this is a huge deal.

4. FOV feels ever so slightly smaller on the Optika6 than the PST 1-6, even though both have eyepieces of effetively identical diameter

5. The eyebox seems a little tighter than the PST 1-6, but I am also still playing around with where to position it on my gun so far.

6. Reticle isn't exactly hard to hard to pick up but less obvious than the broken circle TMCQ reticle from the 1-4. We'll see how I like it at the range.

Gonna dick around with it a bit this afternoon vs the PST 1-6 and see how I feel. Overall satisfied given that my ultimate objective was a lighter scope with better glass. New scope day!

https://i.imgur.com/6recfYQ.jpg

[Nephrology]

Took the Meopta out to the range. This is a really nice piece of glass for the money. The difference in weight vs the PST was noticeable, and after actually getting it to the range, it's clear that the Meopta's glass outperforms the PST at distance. The only minor complaint would be that the 3MOA dot in the center of the reticle is a kind of coarse sight picture if you are looking for precision, but it more than meets my needs. Really like the simple, uncluttered design. Illumination actually enough to get me on paper at 100yd despite the bright morning sun, so that was a pleasant surprise.

If anyone's in the market for an LPVO, this is a very strong competitor vs. the Viper PST 1-6.

[navyman8903]

Are you saying the Badger and Nightforce options are not reliable? Aero is a bit more dicey to declare fully duty-proof, but it seems durable enough for typical civilian use; plenty of posts out there asking about if they're too light for use, and very little by way of negative feedback on their durability.

Well, believe it or not, our conversation back and forth pushed me to try one out on my URGI. Strangely Garand Thumb did a vid on it as well. So we'll see if it gets my stamp of approval. I'm also finding Absolute mounts and 1.93's don't fit my build. Lower 1/3 is love for me.

But I will say, I really like the construction, little things and the attention to detail.

61064
61065

[OldRunner/CSAT Neighbor]

Well, believe it or not, our conversation back and forth pushed me to try one out on my URGI. Strangely Garand Thumb did a vid on it as well. So we'll see if it gets my stamp of approval. I'm also finding Absolute mounts and 1.93's don't fit my build. Lower 1/3 is love for me.

But I will say, I really like the construction, little things and the attention to detail.

61064
61065

Tagged for your thoughts NMan as I've had mine for a few weeks on a game gun w/ a Razor IIE & a spare AP T1, it works for me.