Which concerns you more? The Virus or the reaction to the virus.

[TheNewbie]

The issue is more nuanced, but I offer a simple poll.


Which concerns you more? The Virus or the reaction to the virus.

[YVK]

The answer is more nuanced, but in a dichotomous form I voted what I voted. Neither really concerns me as much as other aspects of this problem.

[Grey]

What is "the reaction to the virus" and by whom?

[Yung]

Inb4 where is the 'mods are sweet' option.

[TheNewbie]

What is "the reaction to the virus" and by whom?


The reaction is the response.

[Grey]

The reaction is the response.

Yeah but what is the response? State? Local? National? Global? Average Joe or politicians?

[TheNewbie]

Yeah but what is the response? State? Local? National? Global? Average Joe or politicians?


¿En general?

[BehindBlueI's]

If the issue is more nuanced, what's the point of the poll?

Or, perhaps more to the point, what's the point that can't be dealt with in the existing threads on the topic?

[Grey]

¿En general?

Eh, too general to actual vote in a poll, all context is lost.

[TheNewbie]

If the issue is more nuanced, what's the point of the poll?

Or, perhaps more to the point, what's the point that can't be dealt with in the existing threads on the topic?


To have an idea of numbers of those who are more concerned with the virus vs the reaction to it. It seems that those who champion the lock down talk more and/or have the louder voice. In general, not necessarily PF to the same degree.

[BehindBlueI's]

To have an idea of numbers of those who are more concerned with the virus vs the reaction to it. It seems that those who champion the lock down talk more and/or have the louder voice. In general, not necessarily PF to the same degree.

So if my biggest concern is how the citizenry reacted, which way would I vote? And how would you determine if that was "champion the lock down talk" or not?

I think that's grey's point about your "in general" being too "in general" for this to have any meaning.

[TheNewbie]

So if my biggest concern is how the citizenry reacted, which way would I vote? And how would you determine if that was "champion the lock down talk" or not?

I think that's grey's point about your "in general" being too "in general" for this to have any meaning.



You would vote the reaction.

The question is "in general, what concerns you more, the reaction or the virus". Perhaps instead of reaction, I should have used the term lock down/shutdown.

Reaction meant how society responded by shutting down, people giving up liberties, government enforcing laws in regard to the virus- the reaction.

[Wise_A]

You've written a poll where one option is whatever you say it is after the fact. There's an answer, and an un-answer. Even when you specify to what you are referring, it's ambiguous as to how a respondent actually feels, even though it's fairly clear what you think.

Aside from the fact that two options is insufficient. There's no box to check for economic consequences that doesn't make it sound like you're in the grr-masks OC protest crowd.

[TheNewbie]

You've written a poll where one option is whatever you say it is after the fact. There's an answer, and an un-answer. Even when you specify to what you are referring, it's ambiguous as to how a respondent actually feels, even though it's fairly clear what you think.

Aside from the fact that two options is insufficient. There's no box to check for economic consequences that doesn't make it sound like you're in the grr-masks OC protest crowd.


The poll should have been worded better. I should have asked: What concerns you more, the virus or the lockdown?

Lockdown basically has the same meaning as reaction in this case, but it would make the choices more clear.

You can be anti OC crowd people and still more concerned by the reaction to the virus than by the virus.

[Wise_A]

The poll should have been worded better. I should have asked: What concerns you more, the virus or the lockdown?

Lockdown basically has the same meaning as reaction in this case, but it would make the choices more clear.

No, it wouldn't. Granted, it's no more obfuscated than polls in the news, but it's still obfuscated. Here--let's say, for the hell of it, that I'm in the "lockdown bad" crowd, so I tick Box #2. Maybe it means that I'm concerned about authoritarian government. Maybe it means I'm concerned about the long-term economic effects. Maybe it means I'm concerned about the apparent willingness of average citizens to acquiesce to government. Who the fuck knows, because there's no option to delineate what's actually concerning.

Ever wonder why a modern president can't seem to get an approval rating above the mid-40s? Because "Do you approve of the job X is doing?" successfully splits his supporters between Yes and No.

[BehindBlueI's]

You would vote the reaction.

The question is "in general, what concerns you more, the reaction or the virus". Perhaps instead of reaction, I should have used the term lock down/shutdown.

Reaction meant how society responded by shutting down, people giving up liberties, government enforcing laws in regard to the virus- the reaction.

And you've assumed what I meant so that you can pigeonhole it into "lockdown". Which I think is the point based on your other posts in the thread. You're looking to show there's some silent majority who's more concerned with the lockdown and you've set up the poll to "prove" that. Maybe you're right, but this poll is meaningless to show that as your response here showed. You are just assuming anyone who selects the second is "lockdown" but you phrased it so openly that concerns that have literally nothing to do with the lockdown would vote the second option.

[Grey]

Seems like you want to use responses that either confirm your own opinion despite answers that may or may not align with your chosen view or win an internet argument...

[Screwball]

Went through how many months of dealing with travelers and truck drivers crossing the Canadian border... last week, CBP requires masks and gloves to be worn when in contact with people. Some even argue that it is required to use a mask when you are behind a glass barrier, which was being used as the original protection for the previous months (not only do we deal with people who English isn’t their first language... they can’t hear with the mask on). And then they complain when we are running out of masks, gloves, and hand sanitizer. The latter... we got some from a company that started up from the virus. Smells like rum when you use it. [emoji1787]

State of Maine also “require” it... but no repercussions if you don’t. I’ve only worn a mask inside a medical center because they specifically required it.

Yea... I’m really scared of this virus. In case the sarcasm didn’t pick up over the post... HEAVY SARCASM!

I’m a Type I diabetic, so I’m technically at risk for complications. Did not take one WSL day... and the one I was “forced” to take was taken away from me due to it being stopped at land border ports (not raising my blood pressure over that BS). Where as we would make it so four people would run the lobby, three in cargo, two watching cameras, one supervisor, and one chief... we ended up with the supervisors/chiefs continuing to limit exposure, and upwards of 15 officers in the lobby. Surprised we didn’t get sick during that.

That doesn’t even go into those with “complications” that are milking WSL. One guy has asthma, been out since it started, and just sits on Quarantine Karaoke bitching songs... and goes up to a spot where cross border couples hang out to talk to his girlfriend (two roads 10’ apart... with the border down the middle). Or the guy who has COPD, yet smokes like a chimney. The ones that actually are at risk, like a legacy Customs supervisor who is getting up there in age... no issues.

[Half Moon]

Well a poll will certainly prove something certainly I guess... I mean why do the hard work of debating complex policy decisions to a complex connected series of problems? We can vote on it in a simplified contextless poll instead...

To quote David Gerrold quoting the (fictional) Roger Burlingame:


When I was ten years old, one of my friends brought a Shaleenian kangaroo-cat to school one day. I remember the way it hopped around with quick, nervous leaps, peering at everything with its large, almost circular golden eyes.

One of the girls asked if it was a boy cat or a girl cat. Our instructor didn't know; neither did the boy who had brought it; but the teacher made the mistake of asking, 'How can we find out?' Someone piped up, 'We can vote on it!' The rest of the class chimed in with instant agreement and before I could voice my objection that some things can't be voted on, the election was held. It was decided that the Shaleenian kangaroo-cat was a boy, and forthwith, it was named Davy Crockett.

Three months later, Davy Crockett had kittens.

[TheNewbie]

And you've assumed what I meant so that you can pigeonhole it into "lockdown". Which I think is the point based on your other posts in the thread. You're looking to show there's some silent majority who's more concerned with the lockdown and you've set up the poll to "prove" that. Maybe you're right, but this poll is meaningless to show that as your response here showed. You are just assuming anyone who selects the second is "lockdown" but you phrased it so openly that concerns that have literally nothing to do with the lockdown would vote the second option.

Honestly, I’m pleasantly surprised that so few are more concerned by the virus. I wasn’t looking to show that, but I was hoping to see that.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

Use to do survey research and taught that. Forced choice is a legit method but the choices have to be well chosen. Is this just another version of red vs. blue?

45 vs 9?

Shotgun vs. AR?

BBI nailed it.

[Nephrology]

yeah I don't really understand the thrust of this post. I think identifying "the response" is tricky because in general when people use this term it is to describe government actions taken in response to COVID19, specifically ordinances restricting business activity and travel.

However, I think that many folks misunderstand that "the response" also includes the voluntary changes in personal behavior made by many Americans to reduce their exposure to COVID19, which almost certainly will remain in place when government ordinances expire. I think that these changes in behavior - particularly if we lose confidence in our government's ability to control the virus and/or become even more fearful personal threat posed by the disease - will be much more harmful to economic activity than anything that has been done by local and state governments.

[BehindBlueI's]

yeah I don't really understand the thrust of this post.

So that the OP could say this:


Honestly, I’m pleasantly surprised that so few are more concerned by the virus. I wasn’t looking to show that, but I was hoping to see that.

He framed the question in such a way to get the answer he desired, got it, and is happy with it.

[WobblyPossum]

As has already been posted by several members, option B covers practically every concern. If someone thinks that the lockdowns weren’t severe enough, the consequences for violating the lock downs and mask orders weren’t severe enough, and people still had too much freedom, they’d have to pick option B. That’s the opposite of what the OP wants to convey but it would still be the appropriate pick. I’m choosing not to vote because of the poorly constructed poll.

[Joe S]

Decades ago, as a much younger man, I once said, as part of a bigger philosophical conversation, "Rigid dualities are for people who are too stupid to think of three things at once, and too lazy to concentrate on one."

A good friend reminded me of that moment recently, and I have to say, it is still the thing that surprises me and concerns me the most in the thought processes of nearly all human beings, otherwise intelligent or not. We just really love to have clear cut binary thinking, when even a basic examination of complex systems of any type reveals that the universe itself doesn't work that way. I feel like the popularization of the metaphor of mind or reality as a computation has further led to even more reductive binary modeling.

[Rex G]

The “reaction” is just the collective of human beings being human beings. The big issue is COVID in 2020, and it will be something else next year, or thereabout.

The Texas governor seems to be reasonably level-headed, overall, but the elected officials in DC, regardless of party, who are making noises, are making stupid noises. I do specifically include the noisemaker-in-chief, in this. Nothing new, there.

So, yes, my concern is the virus, itself.

[TheNewbie]

So that the OP could say this:



He framed the question in such a way to get the answer he desired, got it, and is happy with it.


Not true.

I did a poor job of wording, but your statement is half wrong.

You are correct that I am happy. Not so much happy as pleasantly surprised.


Response meant- lock down, people accepting giving up liberties, economic issue and the like. Response was the wrong term to use.

[DocGKR]

As I have stated before, COVID19 is killing lots of folks and maiming numerous others in many age groups. If anything the numbers are under-reported. Two of our kids are working in hospitals in the north east--the healthcare system is crushed and overloaded there, with insufficient PPE to safeguard providers, and thousands of miserable deaths. This is NOT business as usual. Anyone that does not understand this is highly ignorant and deceived, much like Neville Chamberlain.

Because of early shelter-in-place and fairly strict social distancing in Northern California, our hospitals have not been as hard hit as the East Coast, yet we are still strained and under resourced, especially for PPE. And yes, we are still working, as trauma, infection, and cancer have not stopped just because SARS-CoV-2 is around.

54128

And yes, the economic cost has been immense and could be far better managed--starting with retrospectively idiotic decisions decades ago to send so many key manufacturing industries overseas and not retaining a critical base in the US, ending with the need for more nuanced rules governing COVID19 business shut-down since different geographic areas and businesses types have different needs/risks and the response should be much more individualized.

[TheNewbie]

As I have stated before, COVID19 is killing lots of folks and maiming numerous others in many age groups. If anything the numbers are under-reported. Two of our kids are working in hospitals in the north east--the healthcare system is crushed and overloaded there, with insufficient PPE to safeguard providers, and thousands of miserable deaths. This is NOT business as usual. Anyone that does not understand this is highly ignorant and deceived, much like Neville Chamberlain.

Because of early shelter-in-place and fairly strict social distancing in Northern California, our hospitals have not been as hard hit as the East Coast, yet we are still strained and under resourced, especially for PPE. And yes, we are still working, as trauma, infection, and cancer have not stopped just because SARS-CoV-2 is around.

54128

And yes, the economic cost has been immense and could be far better managed--starting with retrospectively idiotic decisions decades ago to send so many key manufacturing industries overseas and not retaining a critical base in the US, ending with the need for more nuanced rules governing COVID19 business shut-down since different geographic areas and businesses types have different needs/risks and the response should be much more individualized.


In no way is the business as usual. That we agree on.

You are right the different areas have different needs and therefore should be treated based on those needs.

Nothing so far has convinced me that the virus is more of a threat than the response/lockdown. It’s possible I could be wrong. Numerous, well informed, people are on both sides of the issue.

I think the thread has done all it can do. You can leave it open or lock it. We have plenty of threads where we can discuss the issue.

A well done poll would be interesting, but I’m not sure this is it. Certainly I have some blame in that.

[Borderland]

I think it depends on your financial situation and your age.

For me it doesn't concern me financially but the fact I'm in a high risk age group I have to be concerned about the virus.

[BehindBlueI's]

Not true.

I did a poor job of wording, but your statement is half wrong.

You are correct that I am happy. Not so much happy as pleasantly surprised.


Response meant- lock down, people accepting giving up liberties, economic issue and the like. Response was the wrong term to use.

No, that's what you decided "response" meant. Not necessarily what any particular respondent meant. See multiple posts about why that's not necessarily the case. That's even ignoring who decided to vote and who decided not to based on the false dichotomy. Perhaps you didn't do it purposefully, but you absolutely worded it in the way most sympathetic to getting "your side" to be the majority answer.

Which are you more concerned about?

A) The life of your child.
B) Your second amendment rights.

See any issues there? And both of those terms are pretty well defined.

[TheNewbie]

No, that's what you decided "response" meant. Not necessarily what any particular respondent meant. See multiple posts about why that's not necessarily the case. That's even ignoring who decided to vote and who decided not to based on the false dichotomy. Perhaps you didn't do it purposefully, but you absolutely worded it in the way most sympathetic to getting "your side" to be the majority answer.

Which are you more concerned about?

A) The life of your child.
B) Your second amendment rights.

See any issues there? And both of those terms are pretty well defined.


You and I are going to go round and round with nothing gained.

Between the two? A. Though I don’t have kids.

[frozentundra]

I couldn't see a way to vote on this.


I think the aggregated non-medical consequences of this virus are going to be "worse".

Those consequences are more likely the result of 25 years worth of extremely bad decisions that were made before this virus existed.

The pre-actions are what's screwing us so badly. It's much less the reactions.

It's like trying to "react properly" once you are being beaten by gang members in an ally outside of a bar at 3am near Skid Row. Your COPD/heart disease is making it hard to draw a gun that you left at home because you didn't feel like you needed it today. Go ahead and react however you want. You're still in a lot of trouble.


I would vote pre-actions.

[RevolverRob]

Stupidity. That's what concerns me the most.

The re-action, which is definitionally an effect, isn't my concern, it's the cause of that effect.

If people believe the cause is the virus, there is a clear misunderstanding of the effect.

The cause of the effect is stupidity. Ignorance on a monumental scale.

The reaction is simply a manifestation of this.

So, I vote for the third choice, "What concerns me the most is the lack of intelligence in millions of people."

[DocGKR]

"What concerns me the most is the lack of intelligence in millions of people."

Concerns and effects me daily, although I am not sure if it is a general lack of intelligence vs. wide spread ignorance, narcissism, or woeful inexperience/Dunning-Krueger effect....

[TheNewbie]

Lack of wisdom concerns me much more than ignorance does.