Chinese police on the streets of Rome

[LittleLebowski]

Not a lot of data, but to me it seems weird and not good.

https://bitterwinter.org/la-cina-e-vicina-chinese-police-roaming-the-streets-of-italy/


Recently, The South China Morning Post published an odd video. It showed smiling Italian police walking side by side along the streets or Rome with Chinese police officers, smiling as well. It is something going on since 2016. What do they have to smile about, exactly?

“Officially, Chinese police agents roam the streets of Italian cities to protect tourists from Mainland China,” she told me. “This is an implementation of the memorandum of understanding signed in September 2015 in The Hague, The Netherlands, by the Italian Ministry of Internal Affairs and the Ministry of Public Security of the People’s Republic of China, at the time when Mr. Matteo Renzi was Prime Minister here in Rome.”





https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WPhMER6adR0

[blues]

Yeah...NO!!!

[Grey]

Well now we know why Italy got screwed so hard by the Wuhan Virus at the start...

Dun dun DUNNNNNNNNNN!!!

[Trooper224]

“Officially, Chinese police agents roam the streets of Italian cities to protect tourists from Mainland China,”

Riiiiiiiiight, suuuuurrrrre, that's what they're doing.

[Dan_S]

Riiiiiiiiight, suuuuurrrrre, that's what they're doing.

No sarcasm here.


What else *would* they be doing?

[KellyinAvon]

Yeah...NO!!!

^^^This!!^^^

[Trooper224]

No sarcasm here.


What else *would* they be doing?

Oh, trying to keep tabs on their citizens abroad, as well as Chinese expatriates. Not from any concern for their citizens well being, but more an attempt to maintain control of the narrative and to keep the party subjects in line.

[Guerrero]

“Officially, Chinese police agents roam the streets of Italian cities to protect tourists from Mainland China,”

I, too, would like to be protected from Mainland China

[rob_s]

everyone is acting like this is some kind of conspiracy. Reminds me of that bumfuck redneck in the trailer park convinced that the government is listening in on his conversations. He's not that interesting, and neither is Italy.

[hiro]

Idle speculation, as most of the thread is but I'd guess the presence of Chinese police is there to promote tourism as safe and has the effect of making more money for the Italians. The growing Chinese middle class has a lot of disposable income.

Who pays the cost of the Chinese Police and what actual authority do they have in Italy? Powers of arrest?

[Shoresy]

Oh, trying to keep tabs on their citizens abroad, as well as Chinese expatriates. Not from any concern for their citizens well being, but more an attempt to maintain control of the narrative and to keep the party subjects in line.

This. One of the biggest threats to totalitarian regimes is exposure of their citizens to other cultures abroad and the ideas they might bring back (in some cases, IF they come back). Placing security officers abroad has nothing to do with benefitting their citizens and everything to do with keeping surveillance and control on them.

[Le Français]

Disregard

[hiro]

This. One of the biggest threats to totalitarian regimes is exposure of their citizens to other cultures abroad and the ideas they might bring back (in some cases, IF they come back). Placing security officers abroad has nothing to do with benefitting their citizens and everything to do with keeping surveillance and control on them.

There's way more information to be got electronically from bank/credit card use and your phone than any amount of human intel is gonna draw. This is a translation service to grease the wheels of commerce.

[hiro]

Disregard

But you were right!

[shootist26]

This. One of the biggest threats to totalitarian regimes is exposure of their citizens to other cultures abroad and the ideas they might bring back (in some cases, IF they come back). Placing security officers abroad has nothing to do with benefitting their citizens and everything to do with keeping surveillance and control on them.

Well consider this: over 3 million chinese tourists visit Italy every year. Having a few chinese cops in the country to perform surveillance is like pissing in the wind.

Second, "getting exposure to other cultures and ideas" is really not how Chinese people travel at all. The chinese government probably isn't very worried about this. Remember, only recently has there been a chinese middle class with the means to travel. Before that, travel was heavily restricted. As a result, the priority for most Chinese citizens when traveling is to maximize the number of tourists sites they visit in as short of a time as possible. They like traveling by bus tour, where every logistical issue is taken care of them and with a chinese speaking guide. These bus tours will take them through 8 cities in 12 days, and other crazy shit like that. Trust me, interacting with locals and experiencing new cultures is very very low on the list for Chinese tourists in Europe. The type of cultural experience they are getting is a very superficial one. Their priorities are taking pictures of famous sites to bring back home and brag to their friends, as well as doing high end shopping.

The chinese police are there to give a warm and fuzzy feeling to chinese tourists so they keep coming to Italy to spend money. Chinese tourists are particularly vulnerable to the hordes of scammers, panhandlers, and grifters that congregate around major tourist sites. They use a lot of cash and they generally can't speak anything other than chinese, so communicating with Italian cops is completely useless.

[shootist26]

Idle speculation, as most of the thread is but I'd guess the presence of Chinese police is there to promote tourism as safe and has the effect of making more money for the Italians. The growing Chinese middle class has a lot of disposable income.

Who pays the cost of the Chinese Police and what actual authority do they have in Italy? Powers of arrest?

This is correct.

[Le Français]

But you were right!

I know :), but it was a bit too...rude.

[hiro]

I know :), but it was a bit too...rude.

hahaha

Milan I couldn't get into but Rome was amazing!

Now, if we want to talk about stereotypical rudeness (ok, we don't), lets talk being English in Paris.

[JodyH]

Chinese police patrol in Africa, Australia and Serbia as well.
Just another extension of the Chinese spy network.
Not just spying on the host nation but keeping tabs on what Chinese citizens are doing when they're abroad as well.
It has nothing to do with making their citizens feel comfortable. Quite the opposite, it's to remind their citizens that the CCP is always watching.

[blues]

https://secure.i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/03527/chairman-mao-lette_3527640b.jpg

"I can see Italy from my house..."

[hiro]

https://secure.i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/03527/chairman-mao-lette_3527640b.jpg

"I can see Italy from my house..."

Ahh, the extraordinary wealth of the ruling class in China, no real estate market is beyond their means.

It's as if their version of communism was a sham and all they wanted was wealth, control and justification for being a cunt.

[hiro]

Chinese police patrol in Africa, Australia and Serbia as well.
Just another extension of the Chinese spy network.
Not just spying on the host nation but keeping tabs on what Chinese citizens are doing when they're abroad as well.
It has nothing to do with making their citizens feel comfortable. Quite the opposite, it's to remind their citizens that the CCP is always watching.

How many police are we talking about?

[Le Français]

hahaha
Milan I couldn't get into but Rome was amazing!


Isn't it? What strikes me is how walkable it is, which is all the better given how much there is to see all over that city.


Chinese police patrol in Africa, Australia and Serbia as well.
Just another extension of the Chinese spy network.
Not just spying on the host nation but keeping tabs on what Chinese citizens are doing when they're abroad as well.
It has nothing to do with making their citizens feel comfortable. Quite the opposite, it's to remind their citizens that the CCP is always watching.

Australia, eh? I guess I'm surprised. I'd like to read more about that if you have more information.

[Trooper224]

Idle speculation, as most of the thread is but I'd guess the presence of Chinese police is there to promote tourism as safe and has the effect of making more money for the Italians. The growing Chinese middle class has a lot of disposable income.

Who pays the cost of the Chinese Police and what actual authority do they have in Italy? Powers of arrest?

It's not about enforcing the law in Italy. The tourists go home eventually, perhaps to a little time in a reeducation camp, if they haven't represented the middle kingdom in the best way possible.

If you think those Chinese cops are there to make the homegrown feel good in their safe space, you're really deluded.

[Trooper224]

DP............

[Trooper224]

How many police are we talking about?

A few today, more tommorow. The Chinese are masters at playing the long game. They aren't there to be cops, that's window dressing. They're there to monitor their own people. It takes far fewer eyes to observe and report than it does to enforce.

[Joe in PNG]

A few today, more tommorow. The Chinese are masters at playing the long game.

I've always got to ask this questions when this trope comes up- when have the Chinese EVER been successful at the long game?

[Caballoflaco]

Imagine how it feels for a Chinese National when you’re on vacation in another country and a Chinese policeman in a Chinese Police uniform is suddenly there making sure you know that the Eye of the CCP never sleeps and never blinks, world wide.

[blues]

I've always got to ask this questions when this trope comes up- when have the Chinese EVER been successful at the long game?

Or "wrong"...


https://youtu.be/YLa83lqBKKU

[Trooper224]

I've always got to ask this questions when this trope comes up- when have the Chinese EVER been successful at the long game?

The fact you have to ask that question is a good illustration of the east/west difference. China has one of the oldest cultures on the planet, one that's risen and fallen time after time throughout history. By comparison, our society is a blip in history. When have they ever been successful? Quite a few times. They've been successful and they will be again. You may not have seen it in your lifetime, but that's just another example of westerners failing to play the long game. Chinese planning is generational.

[blues]

https://youtu.be/Ct3BsyF64gM

[Joe in PNG]

The fact you have to ask that question is a good illustration of the east/west difference. China has one of the oldest cultures on the planet, one that's risen and fallen time after time throughout history. By comparison, our society is a blip in history. When have they ever been successful? Quite a few times. They've been successful and they will be again. You may not have seen it in your lifetime, but that's just another example of westerners failing to play the long game. Chinese planning is generational.

Knowing Chinese history, the idea is utterly ludicrous. They may plan for generations, but then something comes up that nobody could possibly foresee, and the whole thing comes crashing down. Was the Cultural Revolution or Great Leap Forward part of a plan made during the Qing Dynasty? Did the Opium wars or Mongol invasion happen according to a timetable?

That the long stream of invaders decided to just keep the existing ruling structure in place to get more tax money has very little to do with planning, and everything to do with convenience.

[Trooper224]

Knowing Chinese history, the idea is utterly ludicrous. They may plan for generations, but then something comes up that nobody could possibly foresee, and the whole thing comes crashing down. Was the Cultural Revolution or Great Leap Forward part of a plan made during the Qing Dynasty? Did the Opium wars or Mongol invasion happen according to a timetable?

That the long stream of invaders decided to just keep the existing ruling structure in place to get more tax money has very little to do with planning, and everything to do with convenience.

Sure, let's go with that.

[JodyH]

I've always got to ask this questions when this trope comes up- when have the Chinese EVER been successful at the long game?

They're really good at playing the long game, they really suck at actually winning the long game.
Good planning with poor execution is a Chinese hallmark.

[Joe in PNG]

You know that weeaboo myth that the Katana is like, totally the most awesome sword evah because it was folded like a million times, and it's totally like a lightsaber, dude!! and can cut through steel- that myth?

Then, you look into it, and find that the truth is far more disappointing. The steel is pretty bad, the blade is pretty poor at cutting armor, and it's probable that much of the 'soul of the Samurai' stuff came about when Tokugawa was trying to get the warriors to make nice and use their energy for something other than fighting?

The reputation for skill in multi-generational planning, I suspect, has more to do with Romer's Fu Manchu stories and the Yellow Perl, mixed in with that whole 'inscrutable orientals' racist thing. But, you look into the history, and it's really not there. Remember, this is a nation who's had multiple incidences of the new dynasty going all Year Zero and destroying the records (and the scholars) of the last dynasty.

[Joe in PNG]

They're really good at playing the long game, they really suck at actually winning the long game.
Good planning with poor execution is a Chinese hallmark.

Plans are easy- successful execution is the hard part.

Long term planning is deceptive, as things like circumstances, politics, technology can have super rapid changes that throw old plans right out the window.

If you watch older movies or read older books, notice how modern technology makes some of those plot points fairly impossible today. Now think what that does to a generational plan. Could someone in the sixties foresee the sheer amount of time people today spend looking at their phones, and how big a part that would play in our economy.

These changes make generational planning either utterly useless- one has to be so vague as to not plan at all, or a hindrance.

[JodyH]

China has one advantage in long term planning, they are a dictatorship with communist underpinnings so they don't have to worry about elections or pleasing the masses.
Their big disadvantage when it comes to executing long term plans is that same communist underpinning. Party/dictator loyalty is how you advance, not expertise in a given field.
Greed, incompetence and most of all corruption are why China will always fail long term.

The more you learn about the importance of "face" in Chinese culture the less you worry about them ever being a true superpower.

[hiro]

If you think those Chinese cops are there to make the homegrown feel good in their safe space, you're really deluded.

No, I don't think that.

I have no doubts that uniformed Chinese Police "working" outside of China are reporting on the activities of Chinese tourists and others. I would guess that the host nations are also aware of this. I haven't looked (and to be fair, probably won't) at the agreement between countries that allows this. Apart from more tourist money coming into a country like Italy, I don't see what the Italians gain, if you know, please tell me.

With regard to Chinese police in African states, as I understand it, China has invested massively in Africa, I doubt that tourist money is what that's about, more likely part of a wider plan to secure their investment.

There are plenty of western countries that have organisations working on their behalf to secure investments, that the Chinese put some of them in uniform seems one of the more obvious differences but underneath, what's the difference?

[HCM]

No, I don't think that.

I have no doubts that uniformed Chinese Police "working" outside of China are reporting on the activities of Chinese tourists and others. I would guess that the host nations are also aware of this. I haven't looked (and to be fair, probably won't) at the agreement between countries that allows this. Apart from more tourist money coming into a country like Italy, I don't see what the Italians gain, if you know, please tell me.

With regard to Chinese police in African states, as I understand it, China has invested massively in Africa, I doubt that tourist money is what that's about, more likely part of a wider plan to secure their investment.

There are plenty of western countries that have organisations working on their behalf to secure investments, that the Chinese put some of them in uniform seems one of the more obvious differences but underneath, what's the difference?

They are not just there to report on the activities of Chinese nationals. They actively threaten and intimidate Chinese expats and students and attempt to usurp local authority in Chinese expat communities.

[hiro]

They are not just there to report on the activities of Chinese nationals. They actively threaten and intimidate Chinese expats and students and attempt to usurp local authority in Chinese expat communities.

I am not one to doubt you HCM and, my posts in this (and most) thread(s) are opinions I can't really back up, yeah, the interwebz, I know, I should shut the fuck up...

What's your source?

I haven't seen anyone opine on what the Italians get from this, any thoughts?

[blues]

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/proxy/-faUwu3boM7CPUOwsRbrSAK9s2PiW_V5WYE6fGn6HedrtpdsCY8 562loeY35_nhqpuhZY9tSiocB6PGVoRvkprjl2jBK_rylPfuUA Z9TMcM3uK8E3WM4DFRZ

"I did not see this coming!"

[JodyH]

I haven't seen anyone opine on what the Italians get from this, any thoughts?

Chinese investment money.
The Chinese have pretty much taken over the Italian garment industry.
You want that sweet Chinese cash to prop up your failing economy?
There's just a few strings attached, like Chinese "liaison officers" attached to your Police departments.
Google "Belt & Road Initiative" for the official narrative, then research it deeply to see what it really means to the nations that "partner" with the CCP.

[blues]

Chinese investment money.
The Chinese have pretty much taken over the Italian garment industry.
You want that sweet Chinese cash to prop up your failing economy?
There's just a few strings attached, like Chinese "liaison officers" attached to your Police departments.
Google "Belt & Road Initiative" for the official narrative, then research it deeply to see what it really means to the nations that "partner" with the CCP.


https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcRARximXwEwzWvYSu1obTTjtSIQsQI 0Z99JjlyOX-bhSdgrFWG6&usqp=CAU

"Where do we sign up?"

[JodyH]

"Where do we sign up?"
California, Oregon, Washington, New York and about 1/2 of D.C. have already collected a paycheck in one form or another from China (and the Kung Flu).

[blues]

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/YzaWAEhFWpw/hqdefault.jpg

"Now it is time for you to go. You must walk the streets of Italy and the West...and report back immediately."

[HCM]

I am not one to doubt you @HCM (https://pistol-forum.com/member.php?u=1431) and, my posts in this (and most) thread(s) are opinions I can't really back up, yeah, the interwebz, I know, I should shut the fuck up...

What's your source?

I haven't seen anyone opine on what the Italians get from this, any thoughts?

For the Italians, follow the money.

The Italians joined China’s belt road initiative hoping to kickstart their economy which was sluggish even before COVID.

The problem is they are setting themselves up for the same “debt trap” diplomacy China has used to take control of infrastructure throughout the third world.

https://thediplomat.com/2019/04/italy-signs-on-to-belt-and-road-initiative-eu-china-relations-at-crossroads/


The Italian government hopes that membership in the BRI will open new opportunities in trade and investment, considering the country’s sluggish economic growth over the last two decades. Since 2001, the average GDP growth rate has been 0.25 percent compared to the 1.7 percent EU average, which has a negative effect on local markets and the purchasing power of average Italians.

With a government debt of 130 percent of the gross domestic product, Italy is hoping to finance some of its infrastructure projects with Chinese money. Since 2000, Italy has attracted a stock of $16 billion in Chinese investment.

While Chinese banks might finance some of the needed infrastructural work in Italy, there are concerns that this might lead to a new and unsustainable financial situation, adding to the economic and political strings attached to Chinese economic funding under the BRI. In BRI countries, Beijing has been accused of leveraging its economic capacity to take control of strategically important infrastructure assets, while countries have become heavily indebted to China.

The hope that membership in the BRI will open new areas of cooperation for Italian companies might look optimistic in the short term, but naïve over the long term. One should consider that the EU as a whole has not achieved more market access in China after long years of insistence. On the contrary, it is probable that the strengthening of the transportation networks and future Chinese control over infrastructure and strategic investment will, in the long term, destroy Italy’s local industries.

While the EU is trying to implement a new mechanism to screen Chinese investm

As for the intimidation -

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-12-18/us-and-china-clash-over-uyghur-harassment-and-fake-police-cars/11802578

US and China clash over Uyghur harassment in Australia and 'fake police cars'


In an interview with ABC News Breakfast last Thursday, US ambassador Arthur B Culvahouse Jr said China was monitoring and intimidating Uyghurs living in Australia, and that this involved the use of fake Chinese police cars.

"Uyghurs who are lawfully in Australia, who are raised in Australia, working, paying taxes in Australia, are being harassed by agents of a foreign power," he said.

"There's police cars, fake police cars that are with Chinese police logos, parked outside their residences.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/politics/article-china-ramps-up-bullying-and-intimidation-tactics-in-canada-report/

China ramping up bullying and intimidation of activists in Canada, report says


Chinese government officials and supporters of the Communist Party of China are increasingly resorting to “threats, bullying and harassment” to intimidate and silence activists in Canada, including those raising concerns about democracy and civil rights in Hong Kong and Beijing’s mistreatment of Uyghurs, Tibetans and Falun Gong practitioners, a new report says.

A coalition of human-rights groups led by Amnesty International Canada says a timid response by Ottawa to this foreign interference is exacerbating the problem. “Chinese state actors have almost certainly become emboldened by the inadequate responses of Canadian officials,” the coalition writes.

The report, Harassment & Intimidation of Individuals in Canada Working on China-related Human Rights Concerns, also sounds the alarm over what it calls escalating intimidation and interference at Canadian schools and universities. “Consequently, academic freedom and freedom of expression of university students in Canada speaking out on China has been increasingly stifled, as many individuals fear that Chinese government or consular agents are monitoring their speech or their activities.”

[HCM]

It’s not just Chinese expats the CCP are putting the squeeze on.

https://foreignpolicy.com/2020/05/14/i-criticized-my-universitys-ties-to-the-chinese-government-now-i-face-expulsion/?fbclid=IwAR36DdKN4RJawMEMMUMvACTlSyPKZscHXFKnV3LG b3xPmHs0hHXLBVhFNG4

I Criticized My University’s Ties to the Chinese Government. Now I Face Expulsion.
Australian institutions’ financial ties to China mean ditching values.


The Chinese Communist Party’s attempted cover-up during the earliest stages of the coronavirus pandemic doomed the world to a historic public health disaster, one that would shatter the lives of billions of people. In the face of this catastrophe, both U.S. and European policymakers and thinkers have called for a reevaluation of their countries’ economic and political ties with this regime.

Sadly, the experience of critics like myself in Australia, a country far more reliant on Chinese economic ties than Europe or the United States, shows that decoupling will not be an easy task. After being an outspoken campus critic of Chinese state human rights abuses, I now face expulsion from the University of Queensland (UQ), where I am a fourth-year philosophy student, on the grounds that I “prejudiced” the university’s reputation by using my position as an elected student representative to express support for Hong Kong’s democratic protesters.

I am being threatened with this unprecedented move because of UQ’s particularly close relationship with the Chinese party-state; UQ enjoys perhaps the closest relationship of any university with the Chinese government in the Anglosphere. In addition to funding and controlling a Confucius Institute on campus, the Chinese government funds at least four accredited UQ courses that present a party-approved version of Chinese history to students, glossing over human rights abuses in Xinjiang, Tibet, Hong Kong, and mainland China.

[Le Français]

On the plus side, being removed from a philosophy program may force this individual to have a chance at making a living.#silverlining (https://pistol-forum.com/usertag.php?do=list&action=hash&hash=silverlining)

But seriously, it is quite ghastly how much influence the CCP is obtaining in various regions of the world. The recent HK protests helped to bring this into full relief for some.

[Baldanders]

Riiiiiiiiight, suuuuurrrrre, that's what they're doing.

Protecting them from getting out of line and embracing wrongthink.

ETA: and now I see Trooper already made this point at length.