What is the Lightest Available Reliable Revolver.

[Doc_Glock]

I am wondering what is the lightest available, reliable handgun. Use would be pocket carry. I posted this in the revolver section because to be honest, I simply have not found lightweight semi autos reliable enough for pocket carry self defense. Or if they are reliable they end up being too heavy for gym shorts etc. 12oz seems to be the sweet spot. That leaves DA revolvers. If I missed any good light Semi Autos let me know. Caliber is irrelevant to me in this discussion.

Here is a list of guns and weights that I know about along with some notes. Please add on:

NAA SA 8.0oz loaded with 5x40grain-not appropriate for defense.

Ruger LCP 12.0oz loaded 7x90grain-easy to carry, unreliable


43 C 12.4oz with 8x40gr-contender but no experience with it.


Bobcat 21a 13.9oz loaded with 8x40 grain-unreliable.

340PD 14.4oz with 5x158g-contender but brutal to shoot I imagine.


LCR .22 15.7oz loaded with 8x40 grain-too big. Too heavy.


LCR .38 16.2oz loaded with 5x158 grain-too big too heavy.


G44 .22 16.2oz loaded with 11 Velocitors-too big for pocket.


G42 16.3oz loaded with 7x90 grain-reliable, too heavy.


S&W 642 17.1 oz Airweight 5x.38 158gr.-too heavy.

[TheNewbie]

In my personal experience, the Ruger LCP has been reliable and the Glock 42 was not.

I have a few hundred rounds through a couple different Gen 1 LCPs. Never any issues, even when dirty and not lubed for a long period of time.

The Glock 42 is a gun I wanted to like, but like all .380s, with the exception of the LCP, it was not reliable. It seems I am the exception, and I think my grip may have pushed the gun of battery.


My round count on the LCP is minimal, but for what it is, I trust it.


If I were a big guy, I might prefer a different pocket pistol. No doubt a small revolver is likely to be more reliable if shot a lot.

[serialsolver]

340pd with 148 wadcutters is 13 oz on my scale. It’s not brutal to shoot and is my lightest weight choice.

Some of the rubber grips have metal inserts and can add an ounce or more per side.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Jim Watson]

Kel Tec .32 6.6 oz.
Mine took a little "fluff and buff" is now reliable.

A lot of people cosider .38 target wadcutters to be adequate in an Airweight, Airlite, Tilite Smith.

[MGW]

A Smith 43c is 11.5 ounces. Decent sights and 8 rounds of 22.

[1Rangemaster]

I have an S&W “Airlite” from years ago, which is around 10 oz. loaded. The 43c is just a little heavier. All in .22 rimfire.
Claude Werner has some good comments about .22 revolvers, and if I had the parameters of light but goes bang, I’d pick one of the Smiths. The G42 has improved, and I would look one for a semi auto with ball or Hornady ammo.
At some point though, IMHO, one has to accept some compromise.

[jandbj]

Kel-Tec P32 & S&W 43c as mentioned above are both great featherweight choices. With the p32, I’d be tempted to invest in the good sights from innovative arms.

[BN]

S&W 342PD is advertised as 10.8 oz. Pretty brutal with +P but almost manageable with wad cutters. S&W 43c is very comfortable to shoot. CCI Velocitors go 970 fps in mine. I just shot 100 rounds through my 43c in about 10 minutes the other day. 2 or 3 cylinders through my 342PD is all I want at one time. Both guns have been reliable for me.

The 43c is my every day all day pocket carry in an A Holster.

[BillSWPA]

I have both a Kel-Tec P-32 and P3AT. Both are 100% reliable, but both required recoil springs 2 lb. heavier than factory standard (meaning that I use 11 lb. in the .32 and 13 lb. in the .380) to avoid a first shot jam when loaded to full magazine capacity plus one in the chamber.

Do not swap the guide rod that came with the gun. If it is plastic, do not replace it with metal - the flexibility of the plastic will help reliability. If it came from the factory with metal, leave it alone.

The simplest solution to the suboptimal sights is a Crimson Trace LaserGuard. Pocket holsters for this gun-laser combination are plentiful.

I discourage the "fluff and buff." It will void the warranty, and Kel-Tec has seen numerous guns that left the factory in-spec, but were taken out of spec by this procedure.

If you go with the .32, it may be worth trying this ammo: https://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=132. I have not yet tried it myself, since I learned about it after I had stopped carrying the P-32 regularly, but perhaps I should.

[Doc_Glock]

S&W 342PD is advertised as 10.8 oz. Pretty brutal with +P but almost manageable with wad cutters. S&W 43c is very comfortable to shoot. CCI Velocitors go 970 fps in mine. I just shot 100 rounds through my 43c in about 10 minutes the other day. 2 or 3 cylinders through my 342PD is all I want at one time. Both guns have been reliable for me.

The 43c is my every day all day pocket carry in an A Holster.

43c looks like a winner. I have heard build quality is spotty. I would also
be comfortable shooting it with a minimal smooth grip (unlike the air lite .357/38)

My LCPs will lull me into a sense of security for a couple hundred rounds then have unexplainable FTEs randomly about every 100 rounds. Don’t trust them.

[BobM]

What about the lightweight S&W .22 Magnum?

[TheNewbie]

I have both a Kel-Tec P-32 and P3AT. Both are 100% reliable, but both required recoil springs 2 lb. heavier than factory standard (meaning that I use 11 lb. in the .32 and 13 lb. in the .380) to avoid a first shot jam when loaded to full magazine capacity plus one in the chamber.

Do not swap the guide rod that came with the gun. If it is plastic, do not replace it with metal - the flexibility of the plastic will help reliability. If it came from the factory with metal, leave it alone.

The simplest solution to the suboptimal sights is a Crimson Trace LaserGuard. Pocket holsters for this gun-laser combination are plentiful.

I discourage the "fluff and buff." It will void the warranty, and Kel-Tec has seen numerous guns that left the factory in-spec, but were taken out of spec by this procedure.

If you go with the .32, it may be worth trying this ammo: https://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=132. I have not yet tried it myself, since I learned about it after I had stopped carrying the P-32 regularly, but perhaps I should.

How much recoil difference is there between the P32 and P3AT?

50 rounds through my LCP is not horrible, but also not enjoyable either.

[Doc_Glock]

What about the lightweight S&W .22 Magnum?

I am not convinced the Magnum is worth it out of a 2” barrel. Good thought though.

[BillSWPA]

How much recoil difference is there between the P32 and P3AT?

50 rounds through my LCP is not horrible, but also not enjoyable either.

There is a noticeable difference in recoil that I would have a difficult time quantifying, but on a qualitative basis, I would not hesitate to recommend the .32 to someone with hand or wrist issues that limits ability to withstand recoil, or to someone who is generally recoil shy. My wife does not enjoy recoil, and my P-32 is one of the few guns I can get her to carry. I do not find the .380 to be at all unpleasant, but it is definitely more noticeable, and requires some recoil tolerance.

For me, the biggest difference is the tendency of the .380 to shift in my hand under recoil. The +0 or +1 magazine extensions available from Kel-Tec are a huge help in eliminating this problem, particularly since the LaserGuard shortens the already-limited length of available grip. I have tried both extensions, and prefer the +0 because it provides a more secure grip on the gun, and is also quieter when I am carrying the gun.

Both guns have significantly less felt recoil than the straight blowback guns in the same calibers made by North American Arms.

[TheNewbie]

There is a noticeable difference in recoil that I would have a difficult time quantifying, but on a qualitative basis, I would not hesitate to recommend the .32 to someone with hand or wrist issues that limits ability to withstand recoil, or to someone who is generally recoil shy. My wife does not enjoy recoil, and my P-32 is one of the few guns I can get her to carry. I do not find the .380 to be at all unpleasant, but it is definitely more noticeable, and requires some recoil tolerance.

For me, the biggest difference is the tendency of the .380 to shift in my hand under recoil. The +0 or +1 magazine extensions available from Kel-Tec are a huge help in eliminating this problem, particularly since the LaserGuard shortens the already-limited length of available grip. I have tried both extensions, and prefer the +0 because it provides a more secure grip on the gun, and is also quieter when I am carrying the gun.

Both guns have significantly less felt recoil than the straight blowback guns in the same calibers made by North American Arms.


What I don't like about the LCP is my trigger finger takes a beating. I wish they made one .32, but I may give the Kel Tec a look one day.

It's hard to beat these guns for their intended purpose in my opinion.

[BillSWPA]

What I don't like about the LCP is my trigger finger takes a beating. I wish they made one .32, but I may give the Kel Tec a look one day.

It's hard to beat these guns for their intended purpose in my opinion.

For their intended purpose, they are the best I have seen. I include both Kel-Tecs and the LCP in that statement.

I carried the .32 when I worked in Philadelphia for an employer which had no known polices regarding guns, but would have been very unlikely to approve my being armed. Even now that I own a Sig P365, the .380 is my first choice if I absolutely, positively have to be discreet. These tiny guns also make great backup guns with little size or weight penalty.

[JAD]

How is a weapon chambered in a cartridge that doesn’t repeatably put people down reliable?

I don’t give a shit what the MTBF is for a .22, it’s an unreliable choice for self defense.

[Bushytale]

I know this does not answer the original question but it seems the thread has veered into small autos.
My experience with Kel-tec P32s and P3ATs has been good. My wife and my nephew carry P32s loaded with Fiocchi Extrema 60 gr. XTP. I have two P3ATs that I pocket carry occasionally with Fiocchi Extrema 90 gr. XTP. They are early editions with the machined extractors that I detailed and have all been very reliable.

[camsdaddy]

I no longer have a P32. I bought one 15 or so years ago and it became my first edc that I actually carried edc. The gun was either in an uncle mikes pocket holster or AIWB using the pocket clip. I could tuck the shirt behind it and a slight blouse and it disappeared.
The gun was 100% with exception of one box of ammo but it was an ammo issue not the gun. I was impressed with the accuracy. I was able to keep all rounds on a pie plate at 7-10 years and for where I was as a shooter that was decent. I wish I had it so that I could see what the gun could do now that I have improved my ability.

[RJ]

I always thought the M&P 340PD at 11.8 oz unloaded was the epitome of lightweight carry snubbies, no? Doc, you list it at 14.4 loaded with 158 gr contender. I carry 5xFederal Gold Medal Match WC in my #5401 Ruger LCR .38, which I just weighed on my kitchen scale at 2.5 oz. Added to 11.8 gives you 14.3. I think a fair few folks here much smarter than me use WCs in lighter J-frames...Just a thought.

[Duke]

How is a weapon chambered in a cartridge that doesn’t repeatably put people down reliable?

I don’t give a shit what the MTBF is for a .22, it’s an unreliable choice for self defense.

So you roll a rifle 24/7....because, painting with a wide brush, handguns suck at “putting people down”


What your saying it well understood. I don’t need to put someone down....I need them to stop doing whatever they were doing that made me need to shoot them in the first place.

Got an idea 8 or so 22 holes will send the message more clearly than no gun at all.

Again I get what you’re saying. But again. Handguns are a compromise in one way or the other

[SAWBONES]

Another vote for the 340PD.

Best-overall balance of:

lightest weight,
reliability,
capability and versatility (.38 Special and .357 Magnum ammunition options).

[OlongJohnson]

What I don't like about the LCP is my trigger finger takes a beating.

This. I have XXXL hands. I could clamp the LCP hard enough to get hits, but not hard enough to keep it from beating my trigger finger senseless in recoil. Ended up getting an infection as a consequence of the tissue damage that stuck around for months and caused major surgery to have to be delayed.

Piling on, a series of shitty doctors just threw antibiotics at it without culturing it to see what it actually was. When it finally came back (again) and I went in and said, "Here's what you're going to do this time...," they acted like it was the best idea they'd ever heard and I was some kind of genius. I'm not the one who went to medical school, Sherlock.

[Duelist]

Iirc, the Airlite .22 with the aluminum cylinder, frame, and barrel sleeve was just under 10 oz empty. I nearly bought one a few months ago, and maybe should have now that I know they aren’t produced anymore and considering the super lightweight category they fill. A 43c should be close, though.

The lightest gun I own is a P32. It works as far as being a lightweight functional firearm. I have pocket carried it in situations where being armed was legal but being caught would have been unfortunate. My brother has one he has daily carried for nearly 20 years. It does work in gym shorts pockets, sort of. Gym shorts pockets tend to twist around and reorient themselves in strange ways. They are not a reliable place to keep something, in my opinion.

If I am carrying a gun in gym shorts, I am likely either carrying it clipped to the waistband, or in a Smartcarry. I could see pressing the P32 into the clipped to the waistband role, but if I’m actually exercising, I would rather use a Smartcarry and use a G42 or jframe instead because the bulk and weight are distributed better than one spot on lightweight shorts material. I have carried both the G42 and 642 casually in gym shorts pockets or clipped to the waistband. For actually doing anything more strenuous than walking, not a good idea.

The P32 is not really fun to shoot. It works. I keep it loaded with Fiocchi ball. The 642 can be fun to shoot, merely tolerable for a few shots, or very painful, depending on the load. I only imagine going lighter is going to reduce the available fun and tolerable number of shots. Th G42 is shootable. Mine work with RN FMJ and Hornady XTP, but neither is 100% with Winchester flat-nosed FMJ. I am more likely to carry the G42 or 642 than the P32. They seem to have more utility as actual firearms, are easier to shoot, easier to hit with, and are probably more effective once bullets strike flesh. But I’m not throwing away the P32, either.

The Jframe can be a great pocket gun, but it is not great in all pockets. If I was bound and determined to carry a Jframe in gym shorts pockets, I would get a 43c or a 317 Airlite and try that.

The G42 can be a great pocket gun, but not in all pockets. As you know, it is thinner than a Jframe and a bit lighter than a 642. But it doesn’t draw smoothly from all pockets, and can be a challenge to get a good grip on from the pocket.

I have done a lot of pocket carry. A lot of it was with my beat old 642, but some with the P32 and G42, and years ago with a P11. Grips matter. Holster matters. Clothing material matters. Pocket carry is a big compromise, and truthfully, a lot of the time getting a consistent grip and draw is not easy, and in some situations, impossible. Gym shorts carry complicates things because of flimsy materials, and unless I’m just hanging around in my house and put on the shorts over my boxers to avoid embarrassing my daughter, I don’t just drop a gun in the pocket of gym shorts. I won’t even walk my dog that way because I don’t find it an adequate, secure enough combination of compromises.

[Dave T]

These "guns for when you can't carry a gun" seem to call for the lightest thing you can find...and shoot reasonably well. I can't shoot the tiny autos, probably because of hand size. Reaching into a pocket I never get the same grip. I'm trying to learn pocket carry with a 642 but it's struggle. One of the J-frame 22s is kind of appealing, because of the weight and under the premise of 'get him off me' as the ultimate goal.

I'm not much of a rim-fire shooter but both my experience and what I hear and read is that the 22 Mag is more reliable in terms of ignition than its little brother the LR. And yes the Magnum looses a lot in a 2", so does the LR. But you still get a little more from the Magnum and a little more in this caliber could be very important.

YMMV,
Dave

[JAD]

Got an idea 8 or so 22 holes will send the message more clearly than no gun at all.

That’s a false dichotomy. The choice isn’t between .22 and no gun. It’s between dressing around a 28 ounce gun instead of a 10 ounce. It’s a matter of convenience, not of possibility.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

A vote for the SW 432s if you can find one. 13.5 oz - six shots of 32 HR mag, for which there are different loads. IIRC, Tam, Daryl and some others have them. I find mine really easy to carry.

Noticeably lighter than my 642.

My G42 - was unreliable, horribly so, as I bought a new and had it back to the shop. Seems ok now but I find the 432 J fits in my pocket for the just a gun dress up. I shoot J frames decently, spending time to come up to speed with them.

[BigT]

That’s a false dichotomy. The choice isn’t between .22 and no gun. It’s between dressing around a 28 ounce gun instead of a 10 ounce. It’s a matter of convenience, not of possibility.
For some people dressing around something bigger isn't a realistic option. See the thread about how many people aren't actually carrying all day.

Others don't want to. And that too is their right. An 8 shot 22 in your pocket is substantially more useful than the "enough gun" you carry on weekends or other special occasions.

I'm in neither situation. I've learned that the number of people in one or the other of those situations outnumber me. I've seen enough people who can't or won't carry a G19 sized gun, who've been told thats the bare minimum and end up as a result not carrying a gun at all.

[Half Moon]

I've been looking lately at a few different pocket options for lighter carry than an Airweight. For what is worth some positive thoughts from Greg Ellifritz on the 22 Magnum in a snub:

https://www.activeresponsetraining.net/what-about-the-22-magnum

Another observation, for me shape seems to matter to perceived weight. Playing with pocket fit of different handguns on hand, for instance, - a Colt 1903 feels as light or lighter than an S&W 638. Objectively the 1903 is near 1/2 pound heavier but the way it sits in a pocket doesn't feel like it.

[1Rangemaster]

To the OP, what is the mission? If you want to have a lightweight gun just to “have a gun”, the 43c would seem to be it as you indicated. For me, since I have one, it’s the 317 Airlite. If I’m in my yard doing some work, I’ve had it or a 642 in pocket. Works for me in that environment, circumstance, etc. I’ve known far more experienced men-Walt Rauch comes to mind-who always had a snub in a pants pocket. Rauch also sometimes carried a .25 Browning (!?!) as a third gun...his first choice-nope, but I wouldn’t volunteer to be shot with it.
OTOH, I went out to the local deli for fresh bagels early this AM for moms brunch. I slipped on a Safariland GLS holster with a G19 in it, iron sights and NO RELOAD(gasp). On similar occasions, it’s been a G26 or even a G43(!)-but I pocket carry a reload with the 43. Might get kilt in the streetz(so far so good)but also might get hit by an early morning drunk.
Circumstances and perception dictate choices.
What this thread has inspired me to do is run a Dot Torture with my Airlite-‘cause America!-and run a Wizard with the snub... I did multiple Casino drills yesterday with a G44, not because I anticipate “carrying it seriously”, but it’s fun and some more cheap practice.

[Doc_Glock]

I always thought the M&P 340PD at 11.8 oz unloaded was the epitome of lightweight carry snubbies, no? Doc, you list it at 14.4 loaded with 158 gr contender. I carry 5xFederal Gold Medal Match WC in my #5401 Ruger LCR .38, which I just weighed on my kitchen scale at 2.5 oz. Added to 11.8 gives you 14.3. I think a fair few folks here much smarter than me use WCs in lighter J-frames...Just a thought.

Thanks for confirming my math is correct on the loaded weight. Well within a tenth anyway. Seems a good choice.

[Doc_Glock]

To the OP, what is the mission? If you want to have a lightweight gun just to “have a gun”, the 43c would seem to be it as you indicated.

Exactly. What @JAD (https://pistol-forum.com/member.php?u=1359) doesn’t understand is that I routinely dress around a much larger full capacity gun. No problem. But I also like a gun in the pocket due to the extremely fast, non telegraphed draw and I want something light I can keep on me without excuse in the work out shorts that double as modesty/pajama shorts when I walk around the house in evenings etc.

@Duelist (https://pistol-forum.com/member.php?u=12676) put up an outstanding post on pocket carry above and everyone should pay attention to it. In my case I don’t intend to work out with a gun in the shorts pocket as I have found, like you, that is just doesn’t work out. But my work outs are alone in my basement, and I can empty my pockets of gun and phone on my record book and collect everything after I am done. If I wanted ultimate stopping power I could stage a shotgun there as well but that is not the purpose of this thread.

I appreciate how the thread turned to small autos, but no one has recommended anything I am not familiar with. They have not been reliable for me after multiple samples. Sadly the LCP is nearly perfect for this role as far as weight, shape and draw-ability. Plus I actually shoot the thing pretty well. I simply can not seem to duplicate others’ results as far as durability and reliability. I keep breaking them and I keep having random malfunctions in clean lubricated guns. All told I have 2500 rounds or so downrange with a sampling of 3 LCPs. (5 if you count the broken ones that went back and forth to the factory.) I also have probably 700 rounds through a P3AT which had two trips back to factory and still was not reliable. So, as delightful as they are to carry I think I have good reason to not trust them. There is a reason I posted this thread in the revolver forum.

[41magfan]

Exactly. What @JAD (https://pistol-forum.com/member.php?u=1359) doesn’t understand is that I routinely dress around a much larger full capacity gun. No problem. But I also like a gun in the pocket due to the extremely fast, non telegraphed draw and I want something light I can keep on me without excuse in the work out shorts that double as modesty/pajama shorts when I walk around the house in evenings etc.

@Duelist (https://pistol-forum.com/member.php?u=12676) put up an outstanding post on pocket carry above and everyone should pay attention to it. In my case I don’t intend to work out with a gun in the shorts pocket as I have found, like you, that is just doesn’t work out. But my work outs are alone in my basement, and I can empty my pockets of gun and phone on my record book and collect everything after I am done. If I wanted ultimate stopping power I could stage a shotgun there as well but that is not the purpose of this thread.

I appreciate how the thread turned to small autos, but no one has recommended anything I am not familiar with. They have not been reliable for me after multiple samples. Sadly the LCP is nearly perfect for this role as far as weight, shape and draw-ability. Plus I actually shoot the thing pretty well. I simply can not seem to duplicate others’ results as far as durability and reliability. I keep breaking them and I keep having random malfunctions in clean lubricated guns. All told I have 2500 rounds or so downrange with a sampling of 3 LCPs. (5 if you count the broken ones that went back and forth to the factory.) I also have probably 700 rounds through a P3AT which had two trips back to factory and still was not reliable. So, as delightful as they are to carry I think I have good reason to not trust them. There is a reason I posted this thread in the revolver forum.

You need to send those LCP's to me and let me put my Mojo on 'em. ;^) Seriously though, I've had exactly two malfunctions out of 5 or 6 different pistols; both with Winchester White Box 95 gr FMJ's, and both were with my dedicated "practice" gun which has had well over a thousand rounds fired through it.

Along the lines of your experience, I have a friend that has never owned a bad Kahr (he owns 4 or 5) and I've never had a good one. I guess we're just not holding them right or something.

[Doc_Glock]

You need to send those LCP's to me and let me put my Mojo on 'em. ;^) Seriously though, I've had exactly two malfunctions out of 5 or 6 different pistols; both with Winchester White Box 95 gr FMJ's, and both were with my dedicated "practice" gun which has had well over a thousand rounds fired through it.

Along the lines of your experience, I have a friend that has never owned a bad Kahr (he owns 4 or 5) and I've never had a good one. I guess we're just not holding them right or something.

I average about one malfunction per 100 rounds with the LCP. So they aren’t horrible. And you can buy a lot of them for the price of a 43C. I have one right now that I haven’t started to vet after getting it back from Ruger with a new slide. The first use disassembled itself in the first 100 rounds.

And I had a flawless Kahr PM9 and a complete dud P380 I ended up returning for refund.

[Brian T]

My S&W 351c is 11 ounces, and comes with an XS Standard Dot sight. Oh, and its for sale.

[BillSWPA]

People who are close to me would be much more likely to carry something if I had worried less about minimum caliber and more about finding something that works within the limits of what they are willing to do.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[GearFondler]

These "guns for when you can't carry a gun" seem to call for the lightest thing you can find...and shoot reasonably well. I can't shoot the tiny autos, probably because of hand size. Reaching into a pocket I never get the same grip. I'm trying to learn pocket carry with a 642 but it's struggle. One of the J-frame 22s is kind of appealing, because of the weight and under the premise of 'get him off me' as the ultimate goal.


I've done pocket carry for almost 2 decades, as my primary or as a BUG.
Regarding the draw, the best scenario has your hand already in your pocket with a properly established grip. In that instance it's very important to be wearing pants that have a generous enough pocket to allow for this... Too tight a pocket and you won't be able to smoothly draw with your bunched fist and whatever bits of the gun are sticking out. That's where a Centennial J or the LCP really shine, because of their bobbed corners at the top of your grip which slides more easily from a pocket. I can pocket carry a G42/43/P365 but the draw is 50/50 as to if the slide will snag on my pocket.
In the "reach for it" scenario, the above statements all apply with the addition of adding the need for a good pocket holster. IMO you should always pocket carry with a holster purely for safety reasons but there are other factors at play as well, namely concealment and stability.
You'll want a holster that not only covers the trigger and helps conceal its outline but also holds the gun in the same relative position inside your pocket no matter your movements, as well as staying put when you draw... This helps with consistency of the draw.
In my case I've always "rolled my own" holsters to get exactly what I want from them. Unfortunately I know this isn't an option for most people so I can't really recommend any commercial options for you.
As far as tiny auto vs revolver goes, I find the auto carries better but the draw is worse and a fudged-up, compromised grip/draw with an auto has a lot more opportunity for bad results... The J frame will tolerate a lot more errors and still put the bang where you want it to go. If I can establish a grip before the encounter then this is a wash but if it's a panic grab/behind the curve/oh fuck moment, then I definitely want the J frame in my pocket.


https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200510/dec2d23461f038f27625724bbda24ed7.jpg

[Screwball]

Personally, I really don’t lump rimfire and reliable in the same sentence. Not to try to shoot down the NAA revolver, but centerfire is inherently more reliable than rimfire. Anyone that has put a lot of .22s down range will say to stick with CCI for reliability... but I’ve had them fail to go off (if I try a second time, it will usually fire). If NAA did a .25, I’d be more interested in carrying it.

I do have a Sidewinder, which they have holsters that hang around your neck (a few people do them on eBay). I don’t know if the concept would work with a larger gun, but at least that is another avenue if you get one.

Hey, if a 642 is too heavy... I’m just going to say put more damn clothes on, nature boy. [emoji6] I carry mine pretty much everyday I am not working and leave the house (minus if I go into Canada... but then I just lock it in by box at the port). Hell, if I don’t leave the house... I’ll have it on me (on me right now). I’ve always considered getting a titanium cylinder for it, and rechambering for 9mm... but pretty much I’m just going to have the weight of my gun unloaded when it is loaded. Not that big of a deal, nor is it worth the investment switching.

For the 340PD... why not just find a load that doesn’t bother you when shooting, and use that? There is a lot of room across the .38 realm before you get into .22 performance (if you can find something like that). And then you are back at centerfire instead of rimfire. Just was scratching my head when I saw you mention a contender, but brutal to shoot. I shoot standard pressure Hornady XTP 147 grain 9mm out of my 642... and don’t see it being harsh in any sense of the word. But I know I’m far from recoil sensitive... so your mileage may vary.

[JAD]

What JADdoesn’t understand is that I routinely dress around a much larger full capacity gun. No problem. But I also like a gun in the pocket due to the extremely fast, non telegraphed draw and I want something light I can keep on me without excuse in the work out shorts that double as modesty/pajama shorts when I walk around the house in evenings etc.
.

That’s all good. The first role is a BUG; DocGKR has some fairly specific comment on BUG ammo that is a sticky in the ammo forum. I resolve the other half myself by not getting undressed until bed — but I also have the sort of life that often has me running out the door for an errand at 2130.

What you carry is of course up to you — but a gun chambered for less than 9x19 is specifically *less reliable* in the context we’re talking about, and I figured you either care about reliability or you don’t.

[Doc_Glock]

That’s all good. The first role is a BUG; @DocGKR (https://pistol-forum.com/member.php?u=8) has some fairly specific comment on BUG ammo that is a sticky in the ammo forum. I resolve the other half myself by not getting undressed until bed — but I also have the sort of life that often has me running out the door for an errand at 2130.

What you carry is of course up to you — but a gun chambered for less than 9x19 is specifically *less reliable* in the context we’re talking about, and I figured you either care about reliability or you don’t.


Okay, I get where you are coming from now. By reliable in this instance I mean: goes bang for the entirety of its ammunition supply. I agree none of the calibers we are talking about in these lightweight guns is reliable in its ability to stop a human and I am not recommending them as first line anything. For me though, any 9x19 handgun is heavy enough to require belt carry and if I am going to bother with that I will just take a G19 because I shoot it best and the difference between a G43 and G19 doesn’t bother me at all on the belt.

[Totem Polar]

This topic of pocket guns roughly parallels the topic of handguns in general. In the same way that one can either go all the way around the world, try everything out for themselves, then settle on a set of redundant Glock 9mms, like everyone said at first...

One can similarly agonize over, and buy/try all the options in pocket guns (I certainly did) and eventually just end up with a 340PD with GM wadcutters. Slow and expensive, and enjoy the journey—or quick/easy/quit fucking around and just get the 340PD. JodyH can show you how to set it up with some sort of boxer short clip thingy.*

If the search for "lightest/reliable DCH" isn’t trending towards an ultralight .38 with light loads, you’re probably reinventing the same set of wheels than many experienced gun people have been driving on for years. JMO.

(*the third path is to go the maintenance-intensive "enthusiast" route, and run your 1911s, or rimfire pocket guns, or .32 centennials; just know what you’re getting into).

[Crazy Dane]

Okay, I get where you are coming from now. By reliable in this instance I mean: goes bang for the entirety of its ammunition supply. I agree none of the calibers we are talking about in these lightweight guns is reliable in its ability to stop a human and I am not recommending them as first line anything. For me though, any 9x19 handgun is heavy enough to require belt carry and if I am going to bother with that I will just take a G19 because I shoot it best and the difference between a G43 and G19 doesn’t bother me at all on the belt.



I routinely carry my LCRX in 9mm in the pocket of my gym shorts or clipped to the wastband in my Gildan sweatpants without issues. The LCRX with 5 rounds of 147grn HSTs is 19 7/8oz, with 115grn fodder it weighs 19 1/2oz unloaded is 17 1/2oz on my kitchen scale.

[Polecat]

Haven’t read all post I confess, but being a purveyor of the ubiquitous J frame, my vote is the original no lock 342PD or 337 PD. These are about 10 oz. bare naked without grips. Grips can add several oz. so you have to be comparing apples to apples.

I have found recoil is subjective, and is effected by load, grip, technique, physical condition etc. That being said each 4-5 oz. there is an appreciable difference between them. These ultra light guns say sub 12 oz are best with .22 LR, .22 WMR, and .32!

[Jim Watson]

For a fleaweight revolver I think I would search the world over for a 342; six .32s trumps five .38 wadcutters in my book.
Although what I have is a .38 fiveshooter bought before the advent of the .32 HR.

[BN]

The 43c is my every day all day pocket carry in an A Holster.

In the interest of science, I shot 200 rounds of CCI Mini Mag through my 43c today. ;) The other day I fired 100 rounds of mixed old ammo and hadn't cleaned the revolver since. I wanted to see how it held up.

I started with DOT Torture and got a 48 or 49 at 4 yards. All draws were from my pocket A Holster. All reloads today were from a Speedbeez reloader. There were no malfunctions or light hits of any kind. It went bang every time. Cylinder dumps at 4 yards were all on the head. 10 yard head hits were all there. 20 and 25 yards had most hits in the down zero of an IDPA target. A 15" square plate at 40 yards had nearly all hits, though they favored the right side because of the sun. I finished up with the plate rack at 10 yards.

I wear Duluth Trading pants and there is a little pocket on each side that is probably for a carpenters ruler. I carry my Speedbeez in one and a 10 shot speed strip in the other.

In the past I had been pocket carrying a Glock 26 with a 17 round mag for a reload. When my back started going out I started lightening the load. 53758

[Doc_Glock]

I do not know historical Smith and Wesson Numbers/nomenclature.

I need to find a chart similar to this one (https://www.luckygunner.com/lounge/guide-sw-38-357-revolvers/) that includes the off calibers.

an Airlite (scandium frame, Ti cylinder) J frame in .32 (is it: ACP? NAA? H&R?) sounds intriguing. Unfortunately I am just as ignorant of the various .32 cartridges as I am non .38/357 J frames.

Does anyone want to take a try at explaining the numbers? Then I guess it is a gunbroker search because they don’t appear to make the .32 anymore.

[Doc_Glock]

In the interest of science, I shot 200 rounds of CCI Mini Mag through my 43c today. ;) The other day I fired 100 rounds of mixed old ammo and hadn't cleaned the revolver since. I wanted to see how it held up.

I started with DOT Torture and got a 48 or 49 at 4 yards. All draws were from my pocket A Holster. All reloads today were from a Speedbeez reloader. There were no malfunctions or light hits of any kind. It went bang every time. Cylinder dumps at 4 yards were all on the head. 10 yard head hits were all there. 20 and 25 yards had most hits in the down zero of an IDPA target. A 15" square plate at 40 yards had nearly all hits, though they favored the right side because of the sun. I finished up with the plate rack at 10 yards.

I wear Duluth Trading pants and there is a little pocket on each side that is probably for a carpenters ruler. I carry my Speedbeez in one and a 10 shot speed strip in the other.

In the past I had been pocket carrying a Glock 26 with a 17 round mag for a reload. When my back started going out I started lightening the load. 53758

Great shooting and 300 rounds without clean or oil is plenty for me.

[1Rangemaster]

@ Bill Nesbitt: 2 questions, please-
1) Do you find the Speedbeez functional? And,
2) Where did you find speedstrips?

Thanks in advance

[BN]

@ Bill Nesbitt: 2 questions, please-
1) Do you find the Speedbeez functional? And,
2) Where did you find speedstrips?

Thanks in advance

The Speedbeez are OK. They function fine. They are what is available for the 22. If Safariland made a 22 speedloader I would use them instead. The Speedbeez might lose rounds if you drop them just like the old Dades.

I got everything at Amazon.

[JAD]

For a fleaweight revolver I think I would search the world over for a 342; six .32s trumps five .38 wadcutters in my book.

Why? DocGKR suggests that anything less than .38 WC is likely to produce (even more) inadequate performance. Why is six terribles better than five mediocres?

[Doc_Glock]

This topic of pocket guns roughly parallels the topic of handguns in general. In the same way that one can either go all the way around the world, try everything out for themselves, then settle on a set of redundant Glock 9mms, like everyone said at first...

One can similarly agonize over, and buy/try all the options in pocket guns (I certainly did) and eventually just end up with a 340PD with GM wadcutters. Slow and expensive, and enjoy the journey—or quick/easy/quit fucking around and just get the 340PD. @JodyH (https://pistol-forum.com/member.php?u=157) can show you how to set it up with some sort of boxer short clip thingy.*

If the search for "lightest/reliable DCH" isn’t trending towards an ultralight .38 with light loads, you’re probably reinventing the same set of wheels than many experienced gun people have been driving on for years. JMO.

(*the third path is to go the maintenance-intensive "enthusiast" route, and run your 1911s, or rimfire pocket guns, or .32 centennials; just know what you’re getting into).

I love this post. Much appreciated.

[Duke]

I really those who can make pocket carry work - let alone enjoy it.


I can barely get my fat hands in and out of my pockets. But I’ve been told I “dress like a fag” so there’s that.

53774

[Doc_Glock]

So after all this it looks like I will end up with a 43c and a 340PD eventually....

Thanks for the input!

[Bucky]

I really those who can make pocket carry work - let alone enjoy it.


I can barely get my fat hands in and out of my pockets. But I’ve been told I “dress like a fag” so there’s that.

53774

If you stood vertically, rather than horizontal, it might make for a somewhat easier draw. ;)

[jandbj]

The Speedbeez are OK. They function fine. They are what is available for the 22. If Safariland made a 22 speedloader I would use them instead. The Speedbeez might lose rounds if you drop them just like the old Dades.

I got everything at Amazon.

DS-10 loaders work too. A bit smaller footprint than the speed beez and can use the same loading blocks. Mine needed a little trimming of the outer diameter on a lathe to work with my grips but they’re a good kit.

[Mini14jac]

54044

12.2 ounces for an Airweight with a titanium cylinder and Hogue Bantam grips.
Secret Service wood stocks will put you right at 12 ounces.
Not a lot of fun to shoot but you only have to pull the trigger 5 times.
And, it will be $2-300 cheaper than a Scandium gun.

I also have a 43c and nothing but good things to say about it.

[Doc_Glock]

54044

12.2 ounces for an Airweight with a titanium cylinder and Hogue Bantam grips.
Secret Service wood stocks will put you right at 12 ounces.
Not a lot of fun to shoot but you only have to pull the trigger 5 times.
And, it will be $2-300 cheaper than a Scandium gun.

I also have a 43c and nothing but good things to say about it.


That is pretty cool. I was unaware you could swap out the cylinders. Where does one pick that Ti cylinder up?

[paperman]

I do not know historical Smith and Wesson Numbers/nomenclature.

I need to find a chart similar to this one (https://www.luckygunner.com/lounge/guide-sw-38-357-revolvers/) that includes the off calibers.

an Airlite (scandium frame, Ti cylinder) J frame in .32 (is it: ACP? NAA? H&R?) sounds intriguing. Unfortunately I am just as ignorant of the various .32 cartridges as I am non .38/357 J frames.

Does anyone want to take a try at explaining the numbers? Then I guess it is a gunbroker search because they don’t appear to make the .32 anymore.

Here’s some answers for you. 332ti .32 H&R magnum, apparently 6 rounds loaded 12.8oz Looks hard to find though.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.thetruthaboutguns.com/my-3-favorite-smith-wesson-revolvers/amp/


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Wheeler]

I'm a little late to the party but since I see a lot of talk about revolvers I happen to carry and put forth a little bit of research I thought I'd add what I know.

I EDC a 43c in my front pocket. I have had 99.54% reliability with CCI Stingers with the caveat that the ammo needs to be cycled regularly, especially if physical activity that results in the gun getting bumped increases. Same goes for hot weather and lots of sweat. I carry 8 rounds of Stingers with 6 rounds in a Tuff Strip in a little pocket holster I made. When I go to the range that ammo gets fired and replaced. For those questioning the percentage, I started documenting ammo usage a couple years ago with the 43c.

I also have a 351c, which is the .22 Mag version. I had thoughts on selling it as I originally believed the velocities between the .22 Mag and .22LR hyper velocity rounds were similar. According to some tests Lucky Gunner ran the .22 Mag produced velocities that were consistently 100-150fps faster. That was enough to convince me to keep the 351c for use around the house. My biggest complaint is empty case extraction, or lack thereof. The cases swell too much and won't fall free with the short extractor rod. Not a big issue as I'm not really concerned about an emergency reload but it does bear mentioning.

I had a 642, didn't like it and sold it. I', a big fan of .38 Special, just not in a small Airweight. My experiences with the 642 have led me to believe a 342 or 340 would be good money after bad.

I carry a 332 Ti for my walks. Recoil is brutal using the 100 grain loads but manageable with the 85 grain JHPs. The difference in weight between the 332 Ti and the 43c is noticeable. The 43c is lighter and more pleasant to carry for extended times.

In regards to those who are concerned about bullet diameter and cite DocGKR's work as evidence my only advice is to carry what you want. My goals aren't to 'put down" anyone, but to disengage myself from a situation that I shouldn't have allowed to happen to begin with. I'm not looking to kill anyone and hope to never have to use any of my firearms for anything other than target shooting at the range or hunting. In the unlikely event that I'll have to introduce the option of lethal force to a failed interview, I have set forth a personal criteria of being able to make head shots at a minimum of 10 yards, I can get out to 15 with the 43c, and solid torso shots at 20 yards. Anything further than that and I'm going to look at evasion as a solid option.

I've had 100% reliability with QUALITY ammo out of the 43c and 351c. Anyone that refers to the "inherent unreliability of rimfire ammo" hasn't put in any serious effort to test and document results. Of 1940 documented rounds fired I've had 22 failures. That's mostly bulk ammo with a 1.13% failure rate. How do we address a FTF in a revolver? Press the trigger again. Of 435 documented rounds of Stingers and Velocitors I have had 2 failures. That's a .46% failure rate.

I hope this helps.

[Wheeler]

I'm a little late to the party but since I see a lot of talk about revolvers I happen to carry and put forth a little bit of research I thought I'd add what I know.

I EDC a 43c in my front pocket. I have had 99.54% reliability with CCI Stingers with the caveat that the ammo needs to be cycled regularly, especially if physical activity that results in the gun getting bumped increases. Same goes for hot weather and lots of sweat. I carry 8 rounds of Stingers with 6 rounds in a Tuff Strip in a little pocket holster I made. When I go to the range that ammo gets fired and replaced. For those questioning the percentage, I started documenting ammo usage a couple years ago with the 43c.

I also have a 351c, which is the .22 Mag version. I had thoughts on selling it as I originally believed the velocities between the .22 Mag and .22LR hyper velocity rounds were similar. According to some tests Lucky Gunner ran the .22 Mag produced velocities that were consistently 100-150fps faster. That was enough to convince me to keep the 351c for use around the house. My biggest complaint is empty case extraction, or lack thereof. The cases swell too much and won't fall free with the short extractor rod. Not a big issue as I'm not really concerned about an emergency reload but it does bear mentioning.

I had a 642, didn't like it and sold it. I', a big fan of .38 Special, just not in a small Airweight. My experiences with the 642 have led me to believe a 342 or 340 would be good money after bad.

I carry a 332 Ti for my walks. Recoil is brutal using the 100 grain loads but manageable with the 85 grain JHPs. The difference in weight between the 332 Ti and the 43c is noticeable. The 43c is lighter and more pleasant to carry for extended times.

In regards to those who are concerned about bullet diameter and cite DocGKR's work as evidence my only advice is to carry what you want. My goals aren't to 'put down" anyone, but to disengage myself from a situation that I shouldn't have allowed to happen to begin with. I'm not looking to kill anyone and hope to never have to use any of my firearms for anything other than target shooting at the range or hunting. In the unlikely event that I'll have to introduce the option of lethal force to a failed interview, I have set forth a personal criteria of being able to make head shots at a minimum of 10 yards, I can get out to 15 with the 43c, and solid torso shots at 20 yards. Anything further than that and I'm going to look at evasion as a solid option.

I've had 100% reliability with QUALITY ammo out of the 43c and 351c. Anyone that refers to the "inherent unreliability of rimfire ammo" hasn't put in any serious effort to test and document results. Of 1940 documented rounds fired I've had 22 failures. That's mostly bulk ammo with a 1.13% failure rate. How do we address a FTF in a revolver? Press the trigger again. Of 435 documented rounds of Stingers and Velocitors I have had 2 failures. That's a .46% failure rate.

I hope this helps.


Edit: I have had 100% reliability with the 351c and 99.54% reliability with the 43c using quality ammo. My apologies for not catching the gaff sooner.

[JimCunn]

.38Sp/.357Mag titanium J-frame cylinders are about $139 from Midway. You can also get titanium center pins.
For each of my J-frames, I have one stock titanium and one reamed for 9mm. 12.5oz.

[TheNewbie]

.38Sp/.357Mag titanium J-frame cylinders are about $130 from Midway. You can also get titanium center pins.
For each of my J-frames, I have one stock titanium and one reamed for 9mm. 12.5oz.


Just how snappy is the 9mm out of a 12.5 oz gun?

[JimCunn]

Subjectively, about halfway between .38Sp+P and .357Mag. It's a bit brisk, but I'm not recoil sensitive, so I don't find it objectionable. I shoot 147gr JHP for about 292 ft-lb of muzzle energy. That price should have been about $139.

[Ingramite]

My advice is to watch what you ask for.
When I bought this S&W Airweight it was advertised as THE lightest 5 shot J Frame in .38 spl.
It had a Scandium frame and a titanium cylinder. I believe it was a Model 337, it's been a few years ago.

Anyway, it was like pulling the pin on a hand grenade when you pulled the trigger.
Now, some folks may try to tell you that they can handle a pistol like this but I'm going to just man up and tell you that I never could.
Sure, I could fire ten or fifteen rounds through it but it induced a flinch and trigger yank that I had a hard time getting over.
It took a lot of training to get over firing that little fireball.

I've tried a lot of little pocket pistols and it's always a balancing act with a pistol small enough to carry in your pocket.
To get an "effective" caliber in a small package is a trick.
I had to take a realistic evaluation of what my needs actually were.

After trying literally dozens of pistols in various calibers....drum roll please....
A Colt 1903 from 1922 in .32acp.
John Dillinger and George Patton were on to something and they were not wrong.

Every edge on the Model 1903 is rounded and curved. It's thin, smooth, light, and has a relatively high capacity.
They run like a Swiss watch and feel like a piece of fine jewelry in your hand.
Sure, I've heard all of the arguments from the tactical fan boys who would tell you that the .32acp is inadequate. Don't believe it for a second.

[OlongJohnson]

This could be the modern equivalent of that:

https://www.browning.com/products/firearms/pistols/1911-380/current-production/black-label-1911-380-pro-compact.html

[Old Virginia]

Shooting Pocket guns is my Niche in the gun shooting world. Started shooting them about 12 yrs ago. Could not shoot them worth a damn when I started off. Which set off a challenge in myself. Figured, if I was going to carry one, might as well get proficient with one. It did not take me long to literally burn up 4 Ruger LCP's, I mean just destroyed them until Ruger would fix them and eventually replace them and finally told me they would not send me any more. Then moved on to other guns that could stand up with a lot of rounds. I also love the Ultralights and Ruger LCR9mm.

The most reliable pistol I have found is the Beretta Pico. My gosh what a tough little sucker. I own three of them, but one has so many rounds through it, you would not believe me if I told you. And rapid firing head shots at 15 yds is easlily handled by this mild shooting little gun.
I also like the Kahr's. I train with the Ruger LCR9mm and carry the light weight 642.
My favorite Plinker is the Ruger LCR22. Probably the most fun gun I have. Just love shooting this gun and cannot remember when I had a failure.
Never thought much about 22. as self defense until one day I was shooting the LCR22 with some hot Hyper Velocity ammo at rapid fire into Shotgun clays I had set up. The fast shooting and accuracy really got me to thinking how this 22. cal revolver shooting 8 FAST rounds into a persons neck and face would make one serious defense gun.
Get a Ruger LCR22. Best Practice you can get with a DAO firearm. Shoot the heck out of one and you will seriously hone your small barrel shooting skills. Not to mention have so much fun.
PS Yes, I do love the little P32. Just think a gun that weights 10oz fully loaded with 8 rounds of Underwood Plus P. The gun is so small that you can fit it into the palm of your hand so easy to walk to your car at night and any gun already in the hand makes for one fast draw.

https://i.imgur.com/Zf6QDKI.jpg?2 10oz fully loaded with 8 rds plus P underwood Defender https://i.imgur.com/knjOphd.jpg
.

[Screwball]

.38Sp/.357Mag titanium J-frame cylinders are about $139 from Midway. You can also get titanium center pins.
For each of my J-frames, I have one stock titanium and one reamed for 9mm. 12.5oz.

Who did the cylinder work for the 9mm conversion? I’m guessing Pinnacle, since TK Custom says they won’t do titanium cylinders for conversions.

Anything to watch out for with those cylinders? I remember cleaning with abrasive stuff will take off the coating... messing up the cylinder.

I’m going to find out if my gunsmith can fit a new cylinder assembly, so I can swap cylinders easily. Worst case, might have to send the assembly out for NP3 Plus (I’ll just do standard guts for it).

[RJ]

After trying literally dozens of pistols in various calibers....drum roll please....
A Colt 1903 from 1922 in .32acp.



Is that a Colt Model 1903 Pocket Hammerless?

What pocket holster do you carry it in?

How much does the loaded gun+holster+ammo weigh?

What brand of .32acp carry ammo do you use?

Thanks...

[JimCunn]

Screwball, TK did three of them for me. All were for identical 637-2 conversions. Each of the three has three cylinder and yoke assemblies:
1) the original stainless yoke & stainless .38Sp+P assembly
2) a stock stainless yoke & titanium .38Sp/.357Mag assembly
3) a stock stainless yoke & titanium cylinder reamed for 9x19 & moonclips with titanium centerpin

I find that I prefer #3 because of the quick ejection & loading speed (about 4 seconds - at my age, I'm no speed demon). It only takes about two minutes and one screw to switch between assemblies. I carry three extra moonclips of 9mm in a Walmart pill bottle.
I use 147gr 9mm to inhibit titanium cylinder face erosion (which hasn't been an issue so far).
I use the Altamont rosewood combat grips to provide a three finger hold on the little monsters.
My older brother has used his during an actual home invasion and says he didn't notice the recoil.
I consider the cylinders to be consumables, so don't really care if they do erode (they haven't so far).
If I remember correctly, you have also done this conversion.

[Screwball]

If I remember correctly, you have also done this conversion.

I have... but considering a titanium setup for reduced weight.

Thanks for the info.

[JimCunn]

You're welcome. This 637-2 setup is actually lighter than my Kimber Micro .380 and my Micro 9.

[Ingramite]

Is that a Colt Model 1903 Pocket Hammerless?

What pocket holster do you carry it in?

How much does the loaded gun+holster+ammo weigh?

What brand of .32acp carry ammo do you use?

Thanks...

Here are some photos for your viewing pleasure.
Let the games begin....
Too old (I am too)
Too heavy (I resemble that remark)
Wimpy (nothing left to prove)

My uniform of the day now is Duluth Fire Hose Cargo Pants...your pockets may vary.

Comparing a Colt 1903 to a Plastic Fantastic is like a Timex/Rolex study and "If I have to explain, you wouldn't understand".

The holsters shown here are a DeSantis #75 which is some sort of man made material. A Bear Creek pocket holster equipped with rubber bands to keep it in the pocket. Also a DeSantis with a removable belt clip for IWB carry.

Three types of ammo shown. Most often I carry the Fiocchi 73gr. FMJ to prevent rim lock and better penetration.

In closing, there are few things in life that are as intimate and personal as your everyday carry weapon.
If you are content with plastic....well, there was a time in my life when I was a Ninja that ran into trouble instead of away from it too.
I bought into high capacity and high power because it was valid at that stage of my life.
Now, style, class, and substance are where it is at for me.

[RJ]

Here are some photos for your viewing pleasure.
Let the games begin....



Thanks.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

https://northamericanarms.com/shop/firearms/naa-22s-ch/

Just for grins. I had a 22S. I bought it for $120 bucks because it was cute. Couldn't hit a cow with it close up. Never an EDC of any type. Just a silly thing to buy. I might buy another if I decide to waste money on something ridiculous.

This is a really interesting thread BTW. I wish I had bought another 432 when they were being dumped cheap. Sigh.

[Super77]

To me, reliable=reliable function, manual of arms/shootability, and reliable ability to stop a threat. That knocks out the .22 LR models.

One of the premium J frame models in .38 Special is gonna be light and reliable in all categories. My 340PD is comfortable with .38 wadcutters and .38 Special +P is on the edge of comfortable. I have not shot .357 Mag through it but it’s nice to know it’s built to handle that round.

[WobblyPossum]

After trying literally dozens of pistols in various calibers....drum roll please....
A Colt 1903 from 1922 in .32acp.
John Dillinger and George Patton were on to something and they were not wrong.

Every edge on the Model 1903 is rounded and curved. It's thin, smooth, light, and has a relatively high capacity.
They run like a Swiss watch and feel like a piece of fine jewelry in your hand.
Sure, I've heard all of the arguments from the tactical fan boys who would tell you that the .32acp is inadequate. Don't believe it for a second.

Didn’t a well known gun writer die within the last few years after one of these discharged when dropped? They’re not drop safe, right? Or am I thinking of something else/mixing up incidents?

[BillSWPA]

For those who like NAA mini revolvers, the boot grips are only a little bigger than the birds head grips, but add significantly to the accuracy and controllability of these tiny guns. Another good option is the slip-on rubber grip sold through the NAA website.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Half Moon]

Didn’t a well known gun writer die within the last few years after one of these discharged when dropped? They’re not drop safe, right? Or am I thinking of something else/mixing up incidents?

They're not drop safe. There been incidents throughout their history. One of which led to a minor redesign by Colt in the early 30's if I remember right. The company currently making licensed copies claims to have tested a good number of the older ones and say pretty much all the classic 1903 generations allowed the hammer to fall in a drop. They say they've fixed that in their new version. If I was to carry a 1903 it would definitely be Condition 3.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

I agree. I had a 22 Mag with the slip ons and I could hit things. I'm not a person who calls that gun a primary, etc. It was a something that I would slip into a pocket as a minimal BUG or theoretically an NPE gun.

[farscott]

Didn’t a well known gun writer die within the last few years after one of these discharged when dropped? They’re not drop safe, right? Or am I thinking of something else/mixing up incidents?

The Colt M1903 is not drop safe. When the reproduction was being designed by US Armament Corp., many examples of the original were drop tested. Allegedly every one fired when dropped. The fix was to deepen the hammer hook and sear notch. The parts are supposed to be interchangeable with the originals and are for sale on the company's web site.

[JimCunn]

"Comparing a Colt 1903 to a Plastic Fantastic is like a Timex/Rolex study and "If I have to explain, you wouldn't understand".

Well said. That 1903 is a beautiful gun.

[JimCunn]

"I’m going to find out if my gunsmith can fit a new cylinder assembly, so I can swap cylinders easily".

I just did it myself. Averages about 5 minutes per chamber while watching TV.

[RJ]

Didn’t a well known gun writer die within the last few years after one of these discharged when dropped? They’re not drop safe, right? Or am I thinking of something else/mixing up incidents?

Might have been this incident? (It’s the last one, or “Case 4”)

https://www.tactical-life.com/firearms/dropped-gun-inertia-discharge/

I would defer to Mas, as he wrote the article.

[Mas]

You nailed it, Rich.

[Lex Luthier]

You nailed it, Rich.

And once again, we have definitive proof of why this is the best serious firearms training forum on the open web.
Thank you, Mas.

[Ingramite]

Didn’t a well known gun writer die within the last few years after one of these discharged when dropped? They’re not drop safe, right? Or am I thinking of something else/mixing up incidents?

If it isn't dangerous I won't carry it.

[TheNewbie]

If it isn't dangerous I won't carry it.

What do you mean?

All guns are dangerous, but many are drop safe.

[Caballoflaco]

If it isn't dangerous I won't carry it.

I doubt I would ever even see the short news story about you bleeding out alone in a parking lot or bathroom if the worst were to happen so I honestly don’t care what you carry.

However, If you would like to educate yourself a bit on the matter we do have a thread where I and some others shared stories about our personal experiences with accidentally dropping guns, a few of which would have been fatal if the gun wasn’t drop safe, including mine.

https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?27144-I-dropped-my-pistol-once

[Joe in PNG]

The fact that the old Colt & Browning pocket guns aren't drop safe is one of the reasons I don't carry a Baby .25acp, Colt 1903, Colt 1908, or my FN 1906.
For the same size, I could tote a Ruger LCP- a gun that is drop safe, lighter, has (very slightly) better sights, and is a couple of steps up, caliber wise.

Or, get a Shield EZ, which is basically a modernized Colt 1908.

[HCM]

What do you mean?

All guns are dangerous, but many are drop safe.



It sounds like a paraphrase of a quote by Texas Ranger Charlie Miller.

Miller used to carry a 1911 with the grip safety tied down with rawhide. Best sources I can find indicate he carried condition 2, hammer down on a chambered round.

Depending on who is telling the story either a civilian or an LE firearms instructor commented on Miller’s gun being “dangerous” due to one of the following: 1) having the grip safety tied down; 2) being condition 1 (cocked and locked); 3) being condition 2 (hammer down on a chambered round).

The apocryphal reply was:

“Son, if the damned old thing wasn’t dangerous, I wouldn’t be wearing it!”

Given how common the practice of skip loading Colt Single Action Army revolvers to ensure the hammer rested on an empty chamber was back in the era of Colt / Browning pocket guns as working guns, I suspect most Colt /browning pocket gun users at the time carried condition 3 (empty chamber).

[jandbj]

Since so many of our threads turn into enabling... figured I’d mention I bought a 351c from a Brian T because of this conversation.

[Doc_Glock]

Since so many of our threads turn into enabling... figured I’d mention I bought a 351c from a Brian T because of this conversation.

Mine arrives tomorrow:)

[Glenn E. Meyer]

FYI - https://youtu.be/wfonwb-ZlIo Smith & Wesson 340PD Video Review

I don't comment on the content, just saw it as I sit in my chair, dreaming of past shooting times.

[Wheeler]

Since so many of our threads turn into enabling... figured I’d mention I bought a 351c from a Brian T because of this conversation.

The 351c must be a niche gun. I've tried to trade mine a couple times on something I thought I wanted more and got shot down pretty quick. Other than it's mostly redundant to my 43c and fills a hole between the 43c and 332 that doesn't really need to be filled, it's a great little gun.

[jandbj]

The 351c must be a niche gun. I've tried to trade mine a couple times on something I thought I wanted more and got shot down pretty quick. Other than it's mostly redundant to my 43c and fills a hole between the 43c and 332 that doesn't really need to be filled, it's a great little gun.

I shoot the snot out of my 43c, now north of 7k rounds since I got it. And I definitely have some serious j frame 332/432 envy. I’ve had a few other j frames and LCR’s in .22 & .38/.357, but I’ve wanted a 32 for a good long while. The hunt for that niche gun continues.

[TheNewbie]

I shoot the snot out of my 43c, now north of 7k rounds since I got it. And I definitely have some serious j frame 332/432 envy. I’ve had a few other j frames and LCR’s in .22 & .38/.357, but I’ve wanted a 32 for a good long while. The hunt for that niche gun continues.

Why not the LCR in .32?

[jandbj]

Why not the LCR in .32?

Too heavy. LCR is on the .357 mag frame.

[TheNewbie]

Too heavy. LCR is on the .357 mag frame.

Ok I understand.

Yes a Jframe in .32 would be nice. A 3 or 4 inch version would be great for someone like my wife.

All of those models have been made, but it would nice if they were in current production.

[Wheeler]

I shoot the snot out of my 43c, now north of 7k rounds since I got it. And I definitely have some serious j frame 332/432 envy. I’ve had a few other j frames and LCR’s in .22 & .38/.357, but I’ve wanted a 32 for a good long while. The hunt for that niche gun continues.

I got really lucky last year and fell into a 332 and a 631 for well below the market values.

[paherne]

FYI - https://youtu.be/wfonwb-ZlIo Smith & Wesson 340PD Video Review

I don't comment on the content, just saw it as I sit in my chair, dreaming of past shooting times.

Wow, just watched that and it proves that most stuff on the Utubes is just garbage. As in, here, let me demonstrate that I don't know how to run a revolver...

[Doc_Glock]

54405
54406

Got the 43C and put 200 rounds through it today. Trigger was a bit tight to start. Had issues with it not resetting in the first 30 rounds. That cleared up but the cylinder remains tight. It would not cycle Minimags at all which shocked me. They just locked up the cylinder. Aguila plated super extra went better. I am not sure if the lead build up at the inside top of the frame is normal or not. I did not shoot any un-plated bullets.

The LCR handily outshoots the 43C IMO. Cylinder dumps at 5 yards were a 4” group Ruger and 6” group S&W plus the Ruger hits to the sights. Not the mention the Ruger didn’t lock up and has been crazy reliable since day one.

The 43C is super light though and I hope it breaks in and I didn’t get a dud.

[Wheeler]

54405
54406

Got the 43C and put 200 rounds through it today. Trigger was a bit tight to start. Had issues with it not resetting in the first 30 rounds. That cleared up but the cylinder remains tight. It would not cycle Minimags at all which shocked me. They just locked up the cylinder. Aguila plated super extra went better. I am not sure if the lead build up at the inside top of the frame is normal or not. I did not shoot any un-plated bullets.

The LCR handily outshoots the 43C IMO. Cylinder dumps at 5 yards were a 4” group Ruger and 6” group S&W plus the Ruger hits to the sights. Not the mention the Ruger didn’t lock up and has been crazy reliable since day one.

The 43C is super light though and I hope it breaks in and I didn’t get a dud.

Clean it well, save some empty cases and use them for dry fire. Mince because a lot more fun to shoot once the anodizing wore off the front of the cylinder.

[Doc_Glock]

Shot the 43C 266 rounds today.

Gave it a good clean and lube pre shoot. I shot it better today and it seems to be happy with a drive the dot sight picture at 5 yards. I used five brands of ammo:
CCI Minimag HV 40 grain CPRN
CCI SV 40 grain LRN
Aguila Super Extra HV 40 grain CPRN
Federal Premium SV40 grain LRN
Fiocchi SV 40 grain LRN
Armscor SV 40 grain LRN

I learned it is particularly intolerant of the CCI ammo in either flavor. The case heads are just a little prominent and the cylinder wants to bind due to drag between the heads and the frame. Interestingly, the binding gets worse with each shot and essentially the cylinder won’t turn by shot 7 and 8. That does not bode well for using Velocitors going forward for carry. I will test those next time.

I had about 5 instances of the trigger not wanting to reset. Mostly with the CCI. And a couple unlit primers. Two CCI which I am not holding against it and one with the Federal. All fired second strike.

It really ran well with the Fiocchi and Armscor SV ammo.

I cleaned it well again and dry fired with used brass. Currently doing a pocket carry trial. I definitely prefer the Safariland Mode 25 holster to the Mika’s. The Mika’s is too bulky.

My LCR .22 also had the same cylinder drag issue but not quite as bad with the CCI today, so maybe I have a bad lot of ammo. This gun is ultra dirty though.

I would not say I trust the 43c as yet. I would like to see it go 100 rounds with ammo it likes without drama.

[Doc_Glock]

5459954600

Both loaded to capacity.

[BN]

I learned it is particularly intolerant of the CCI ammo in either flavor. The case heads are just a little prominent and the cylinder wants to bind due to drag between the heads and the frame. Interestingly, the binding gets worse with each shot and essentially the cylinder won’t turn by shot 7 and 8. That does not bode well for using Velocitors going forward for carry. I will test those next time.

I had about 5 instances of the trigger not wanting to reset.

When I fired 200 rounds of Mini Mag, all rounds were loaded with the Speed Beez which pushed each round firmly into the chambers. Did you try pushing each round into the chambers when loading? I think I remember doing a pretty good scrubbing of the chambers on mine when I first got it. I know when I loaded the revolver after the testing, I had to push some of the rounds down into the chambers. I think the chambers need to be pretty clean.

I think I had a couple of instances of slow trigger reset the first day but I'm not sure.

[Doc_Glock]

When I fired 200 rounds of Mini Mag, all rounds were loaded with the Speed Beez which pushed each round firmly into the chambers. Did you try pushing each round into the chambers when loading? I think I remember doing a pretty good scrubbing of the chambers on mine when I first got it. I know when I loaded the revolver after the testing, I had to push some of the rounds down into the chambers. I think the chambers need to be pretty clean.

I think I had a couple of instances of slow trigger reset the first day but I'm not sure.

I used a SpeedBeez loader (love it) and ran a thumb over the back of the cases. Chambers were all brass brushed and clean. I just don’t know. Perhaps it will break in.

[BN]

I hope it works out for you. I really like mine.

[Wheeler]

Shot the 43C 266 rounds today.

Gave it a good clean and lube pre shoot. I shot it better today and it seems to be happy with a drive the dot sight picture at 5 yards. I used five brands of ammo:
CCI Minimag HV 40 grain CPRN
CCI SV 40 grain LRN
Aguila Super Extra HV 40 grain CPRN
Federal Premium SV40 grain LRN
Fiocchi SV 40 grain LRN
Armscor SV 40 grain LRN

I learned it is particularly intolerant of the CCI ammo in either flavor. The case heads are just a little prominent and the cylinder wants to bind due to drag between the heads and the frame. Interestingly, the binding gets worse with each shot and essentially the cylinder won’t turn by shot 7 and 8. That does not bode well for using Velocitors going forward for carry. I will test those next time.

I had about 5 instances of the trigger not wanting to reset. Mostly with the CCI. And a couple unlit primers. Two CCI which I am not holding against it and one with the Federal. All fired second strike.

It really ran well with the Fiocchi and Armscor SV ammo.

I cleaned it well again and dry fired with used brass. Currently doing a pocket carry trial. I definitely prefer the Safariland Mode 25 holster to the Mika’s. The Mika’s is too bulky.

My LCR .22 also had the same cylinder drag issue but not quite as bad with the CCI today, so maybe I have a bad lot of ammo. This gun is ultra dirty though.

I would not say I trust the 43c as yet. I would like to see it go 100 rounds with ammo it likes without drama.

So when I got my 317 I had a similar issue, with the CCI MiniMags. The cylinder would heat up and swell, which was a no go for me. I traded it off to a casual shooter for 12-3 and we were both happy.

Chris Baker had an issue with his 43c and the trigger not resetting. He sent it back to S&W and they 'did something' to the rebound slide. I had that same issues with the 317 as well. Mine cleared up with dry fire and pushing the hammer forward with my thumb. You'll notice this is the second time I've recommended dry fire... ;)

Best regards,
Wheeler

[Doc_Glock]

So when I got my 317 I had a similar issue, with the CCI MiniMags. The cylinder would heat up and swell, which was a no go for me. I traded it off to a casual shooter for 12-3 and we were both happy.

Chris Baker had an issue with his 43c and the trigger not resetting. He sent it back to S&W and they 'did something' to the rebound slide. I had that same issues with the 317 as well. Mine cleared up with dry fire and pushing the hammer forward with my thumb. You'll notice this is the second time I've recommended dry fire... ;)

Best regards,
Wheeler

I actually think the little gun is wearing in after about 500-1000 dry fires, cleaning and careful lubrication. I am confident at this point it will work out. Plus I have learned a lot about J frames. The Reset issue is simply due to the cylinder drag. If there is any drag on that thing it will push sideways against the hand and it will not reset. They are built tighter than the Rugers I am used to.

I just need to be confident that one, maybe two cylinders of Velocitors will fire from a clean, cold gun.

In the mean time I am using it as a pocket carry experiment because if I can carry this thing, I am certain I can carry a 340PD.

[Mini14jac]

That is pretty cool. I was unaware you could swap out the cylinders. Where does one pick that Ti cylinder up?

Doc_Glock, sorry for the late reply.
Midway USA carries S&W factory titanium cylinders.
$139 plus shipping and it takes about 10 minutes to install.
I think I’ve done 3 so far.
It comes with an unfitted extractor but if you swap in your existing extractor you should be good.

[Mini14jac]

I’m on my 3rd 43c and I’ve never had an issue with MiniMags.
If the problems continue I’d call Smith and let them fix it.
They will pay shipping and have awesome customer service.
I bet they will make it right.

Some owners have had S&W exchange the cylinder for a stainless one after having issues.
That would probably add about 2 ounces.

[Jim Watson]

What happened to the first two?

[Rex G]

Preface: While it has not always been a happy experience, Seecamp pistols set my standards of desirable size and handling qualities, for Smaller-Than-J pocket guns, in the Eighties. The trigger is set quite far-forward, resulting in a trigger stroke for adult-sized hands. (This does not mean that I am recommending Seecamp pistols. Their care and feeding requirements require serious commitment, plus, a faith in point-shooting, so they probably belong in a different thread topic, of their own.)

Some thoughts:

If “going bang for the entirety of the ammo supply” is an absolute parameter, I hate to recommend rimfire. If .22 become necessary, well, carry a top-tier, premium load, which is refreshed regularly, from a reserve supply stored in a very dry environment.

I have seen troubling anecdotes of cross-pins failing in some S&W ultra-light revolvers. (Lighter than Airweight.) While S&W customer service took good care of the owners of these weapons, customer service is not there to help me, on the spot, in the street. When I shopped for Airlites, In early 2018, I did my homework, regarding production history, and colors of the cross-pins, to hopefully avoid the problematic ones. (After I bought my pair of Airlite J-snubs, I did not retain these details, in my memory, or bookmark anything, but I think it all may be found right here, in the forum.

Airlite, and similar-weight, J-snubs, if they have realistically-sized pocket-carry grips on them, are torture devices, for the base joint of my aging right thumb, even with cheap 130-grain ammo. 148-grain wadcutters are only slightly more tolerable. This has interfered with my warming-up to Airlites, so I almost never carry them. They are small-niche weapons, for me.

My Performance Center Airweight, based upon an early, cosmetically-flawed 642, and given a different model number, has always been plenty light enough for all pockets, except for pockets in light-weight soft=shell jacketS and rain jackets.

My wife hated the recoil and handling of her Kel-Tec P-32, so I finished firing the break-in/function-test rounds, for her. I hated the recoil and handling. It has been a paper-weight, since we finished the T&E shooting. Notably, it was reliable, with a range of ammo, but only if we kept the mags down-loaded by one.

When a reviewer wrote that the P3AT was slightly wider, in the grip area, than the P-32, I decided to take a chance, on being an early adopter, and got on a waiting list. Well, wouldn’t ya know, the reviewer was wrong. I knew it would be a torture device, so I flipped it, unfired and LNIB, for exactly what I paid for it.

I passed in the Elsie Pea, because it was too Kel-Tec-y.

I find the G42 plenty light enough, but it requires seriously large pockets. I am still vetting my G42, for reliability, a project which seems to be taking years, as I only occasionally buy .380, a box or two at a time.

I am liking what I see, when I look at Inoxidable Beretta 21a Bobcats, in spite of their being rimfire.

[Rex G]

To elaborate a bit on my near-642, a number of 642 samples were deemed too cosmetically-flawed, due to the degree of color mismatch between the stainless steel and aluminum alloy components. Rather than being distributed/sold, in that condition, they were diverted to the Performance Center, where they were given coated finishes, trigger jobs, and stamped with new model numbers. The best-know of these were marketed as the Model 042, with a bright blue finish that was baked-on. Mine is from a batch with a matte black finish, the Performance Center etching, chamfered chamber mouths, and Mag-na-ported barrels, stamped “M460,” as a model designation, on the frame, but, if I recall correctly, the box labeled the model as “430.”

The porting may help, just a tiny bit, with +P ammo. I doubt it makes a difference, with standard-pressure ammo. I have no un-ported 642, for apples-to-apples comparison, as my other J-Frames are either Airlite, or all-stainless steel.

To keep from getting blow-torched, in a FUT, my carry ammo has been standard-pressure.

[Mini14jac]

What happened to the first two?

I realized I didn’t shoot my first one much so I sold it.
Decided that a 43c would be a good trainer for a .38, so I bought another.
Decided to sell my .38s so I sold the 43c.

Started looking for a walk-the-dog gun for my wife when her Glock 42 proved unreliable.
Decided a 43c would be awesome for that.
She’s not really interested in it but I’m enjoying it a lot.

In other words I’m not the sharpest knife in the drawer.

But, all three of mine have been trouble free out of the box, and two were purchased used.

[Doc_Glock]

Velocitors work! Here are the first 8 and a reload from a cold start today.


https://youtu.be/TcxZ7CFoJkE

Ran 72 Velocitors through it total today. Zero problems. Attempted 8 Minimags and the cylinder stopped rotating after 6 shots. Something about how the brass bulges at the base after it fires leads to the base dragging. It is either not compatible with the gun or a bad lot of ammo.

So far this gun is the winner of the underwear gun award. I like the LCP, I shoot it well, I just never know when one is going to hit working. If I can actually carry the 43C most of the time I may put up the $900-1000 for a 340PD.

[dmiculek]

My 340 PD has been great. Exchanged the rubber grips for traditional wood.

https://i.imgur.com/LGcVK1gm.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/UrmSP3pm.jpg

[Wheeler]

Velocitors work! Here are the first 8 and a reload from a cold start today.


https://youtu.be/TcxZ7CFoJkE

Ran 72 Velocitors through it total today. Zero problems. Attempted 8 Minimags and the cylinder stopped rotating after 6 shots. Something about how the brass bulges at the base after it fires leads to the base dragging. It is either not compatible with the gun or a bad lot of ammo.

So far this gun is the winner of the underwear gun award. I like the LCP, I shoot it well, I just never know when one is going to hit working. If I can actually carry the 43C most of the time I may put up the $900-1000 for a 340PD.

Seems like the culprit was the ammo then?

I run a lot of bulk crap through mine and cycle my carry ammo just about every time I go to the range. Occasionally I'll get a wild hair and run part of a box of Stingers through mine on a plate rack or running a modified IDPA 5x5. I've had very good performance with the higher quality ammo.

[Super77]

"I’m going to find out if my gunsmith can fit a new cylinder assembly, so I can swap cylinders easily".

I just did it myself. Averages about 5 minutes per chamber while watching TV.

What’s the process?

[JimCunn]

Check new yoke alignment. Realign if necessary.
Check individual cylinders for drag. If draggy, adjust the tab on each 'leg' of the star with a file to eliminate drag.
Timing will usually be OK as is.
Lockup is usually OK, but can be adjusted by modifying ratchet length.

[Doc_Glock]

The 43C pocket gun seems good to go at this point. Nice session today of 204 rounds. Zero problems. Fired Velocitors for one cylinder at beginning and the end. Can’t ask for much more. Going 200 rounds between cleaning is something I expect of a semi auto and for this revolver it is more than enough.

Currently at 756 rounds through it. The only malfunctions were ammo related. It hates Minimags but seems to swallow anything else I have tried. After about a thousand dry fires and working the cylinder open and shut it has turned into a very precise feeling little gun.

I tried some 25 yard shooting with it today. Equal height equal light cover the black bull with the dot sight picture gives the proper elevation, but I was shooting a little bit right. About an entire B8 black worth, so about half were off target to the right. This was consistent with three targets. Unclear if it is me or the sights, but usually I can keep a small gun on the B8.

Either way I think this is the lightest available reliable revolver. It pocket carries nicely and I have rarely been without it for the past week.

[Wheeler]

You are now #OneOfUs (https://pistol-forum.com/usertag.php?do=list&action=hash&hash=OneOfUs) :)

[Doc_Glock]

Adding:

I also shot a bunch of rounds through the LCR .22 to finish off its 2,000 round challenge so I could clean the thing. In general, it is more accurate, more reliable and less finicky than the 43C, but it is also heavier (4 ounces or 30% heavier) and slightly bigger in the pocket. To the point I don't think I could carry it. But back to back, I do shoot it better. I don't know if it is the inherent accuracy of the gun or my interaction with the trigger. I sort of suspect the gun itself at there is a lot more lead build up on the top of the frame and around the forcing cone with the 43C after 1/4 the rounds through it.

The LCR .22 is really a no drama gun. It was even easier to clean than the 43C last night back to back, 200 rounds compared to 2,000 rounds.

[Jim Watson]

I was thinking of butchering a Terrier by reaming it for .38 Special wadcutters. At midrange pressure, it isn't going to bulge or split brass like we worry about BSRs.
But while it is a small gun, it is not particularly light, being all steel. I don't think they made an Airweight Terrier.

[Whirlwind06]

Adding:

I also shot a bunch of rounds through the LCR .22 to finish off its 2,000 round challenge so I could clean the thing. In general, it is more accurate, more reliable and less finicky than the 43C, but it is also heavier (4 ounces or 30% heavier) and slightly bigger in the pocket. To the point I don't think I could carry it. But back to back, I do shoot it better. I don't know if it is the inherent accuracy of the gun or my interaction with the trigger. I sort of suspect the gun itself at there is a lot more lead build up on the top of the frame and around the forcing cone with the 43C after 1/4 the rounds through it.

The LCR .22 is really a no drama gun. It was even easier to clean than the 43C last night back to back, 200 rounds compared to 2,000 rounds.I know it's subjective but how was the DA pull on the LCR? A number of reviews that I have read comment on the heavy DA pull.

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

[Doc_Glock]

I know it's subjective but how was the DA pull on the LCR? A number of reviews that I have read comment on the heavy DA pull.

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

Both these .22s are around 11-11.5lbs. The Ruger feels a bit lighter.

[john c]

I was thinking of butchering a Terrier by reaming it for .38 Special wadcutters. At midrange pressure, it isn't going to bulge or split brass like we worry about BSRs.
But while it is a small gun, it is not particularly light, being all steel. I don't think they made an Airweight Terrier.

Jim, what do .38 spl wadcutters get you over .38 S&W? If you're looking for defensive loads, Buffalo Bore has 125 gr LSWC at 1000 fps. That seems a lower risk proposition than rechambering, in terms of function.

[Jim Watson]

I just didn't think to look for off brand ammo, I was just going on the very usual recommendation of midrange wadcutters.

Back when BSRs were just Redundant Revolvers instead of Significant Historical Artifacts, a guanine writer ran standard .38 S&W through all the "stopping power" formulas that had been devised and concluded that .38 S&W was about as effective as .380 ACP.

[john c]

I just didn't think to look for off brand ammo, I was just going on the very usual recommendation of midrange wadcutters.

Back when BSRs were just Redundant Revolvers instead of Significant Historical Artifacts, a guanine writer ran standard .38 S&W through all the "stopping power" formulas that had been devised and concluded that .38 S&W was about as effective as .380 ACP.

The Schwartz could probably chime in with some objective calculations on the two rounds in terms of tissue destruction. His calculations appear to have more validity than the old TKO-type formulas.

My main concern would be reports that fired .38 special brass can hang up in rechambered .38 S&W chambers. Regardless, the 125 grain LSWC at 1000 fps, if real out of a snub nose revolver, would substantially exceed .380 in performance.

[MGW]

Doc_Glock is the LCR still too big for pocket carry with Ruger boot grips on it?

[Doc_Glock]

@Doc_Glock (https://pistol-forum.com/member.php?u=12978) is the LCR still too big for pocket carry with Ruger boot grips on it?

I think with smaller grips it would be essentially identical to the J frame.

This article shows the differences.

https://www.luckygunner.com/lounge/smith-wesson-j-frame-versus-ruger-lcr/