Weapon lights with integral lasers

[rob_s]

Maybe there’s already a thread on this? If so I may have missed it.

I know that GJM is using the Streamlight TLR-8 (https://www.streamlight.com/en/products/detail/index/tlr-8) on a gun or two, and I bought one for my PCC based on this. Problem with this option, like a lot of others, is that for a carbine solution it puts the laser an awful long way from the bore line.

Similar option would be the Surefire X400 available in green (https://www.surefire.com/x400u-a-ultra-green-led-weaponlight.html), red (https://www.surefire.com/x400u-a-ultra-red-led-weaponlight.html), and infrared (https://www.surefire.com/x400v-b-irc-led-weaponlight.html) laser versions.

SUREFIRE also has the XC2 in red (https://www.surefire.com/xc2-a-irc-ultra-compact-infrared-led-handgun-illuminator-laser-sight.html) and IR (https://www.surefire.com/xc2-a-irc-ultra-compact-infrared-led-handgun-illuminator-laser-sight.html) which has less light and a more optimally located laser but evidently doesn’t allow you to choose between light and laser, “only” offers 300 lumens, and seems to have a runtime of maybe 30 minutes.

Then there’s the XVL2 (https://www.surefire.com/xvl2-pistol-carbine-light-laser-module-system.html) and XVL2 IRC (https://www.surefire.com/xvl2-irc-pistol-carbine-light-laser-module-system.html) that, Frankly I’m not exactly sure of the difference as both appear to offer both IR and white light, IR laser and green laser.

The SUREFIRE XH55 (https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1451258-REG) seems to be what we all want, with the laser output between the light and the bore, but it’s been vaporware for 2 years or more and is 1000 lumens (which imo may be too bright, as I’d probably trade lumens for ru time personally) and runs $700. It seems they may be offering it in both red and green if it ever becomes real.

Am I missing anything? Anything else on the horizon?

Personally, the XH55 option is so exciting because I’d like to mount it at 12 o’clock in a carbine handguard.

[Maple Syrup Actual]

I had been asking about the Olight one - some people ordered them but I don't know if anyone's had a chance to try one out yet.

[rob_s]

I had been asking about the Olight one - some people ordered them but I don't know if anyone's had a chance to try one out yet.

The BALDR RL (https://www.olightstore.com/baldr-rl.html) in red and the BALDR PRO (https://www.olightstore.com/baldr-pro.html) in green?

[Maple Syrup Actual]

Yeah, that's the one, or those are the two or whichever.

Very curious to see how they do.

[RevolverRob]

Rob - there is the Steiner DBAL-PL - https://www.steiner-optics.com/laser-devices/dbal-pl - For pistols and the DBAL-RL - https://www.steiner-optics.com/laser-devices/dbal-rl-v2

I haven't tried either of these, just some other options. They have an advantage of putting the laser above the light, so when flipped upside down for 12 o'clock mounting, the laser would be closer to the bore.

The RL is probably the way to go with a remote switch. The pistol switches for the PL doesn't look conducive to being run upside down (I could be wrong, haven't been hands on with either of these).

___

I'm definitely interested to see what folks suggest. I imagine you and I are thinking of similar applications ("PDW"). I would definitely love a light/laser combo with a green laser, I could potentially use as either a secondary sighting system or for a secondary zero for shooting subsonics.

[El Cid]

I have a TLR-8AG and so far consider it the best option that’s actually for sale. I grabbed a couple of the Olights during one of their crazy sales and they seem fine but I haven’t really pushed them at all. And to be fair, for the price I have low expectations.

I’m still waiting for the SF XR2. Green laser that’s closer to the bore. And 600 lumens. If they actually start selling it I’ll probably buy a few of them.

[1Rangemaster]

Streamlight has the TLR2 HL “G” with green laser. We had one forT&E, and I ran it on a GLOCK by the bed at home.
Bright, reportedly 1000 lumens with a laser at the bottom of the housing. It worked in the limited time I used it (a few hundred rounds)but it was a bit bulky.
I currently have a TLR8G mounted on a duty pistol, and ended up with a SUREFIRE X300 on an Arisaka “Mossie” Mount which clamps to the front sight on my Colt carbine. The TLR8 will work; one just needs to note off set and practice accordingly.
Although a combo setup with a laser mounted inboard would be really nice...

[LittleLebowski]

I’m probably ordering the BALDR.

[PD Sgt.]

I have no first hand experience with this, but an ad for it popped up in my feed just the other day.

https://www.streamlight.com/en/products/detail/index/protac-rail-mount-hl-x-laser#

[rob_s]

I have no first hand experience with this, but an ad for it popped up in my feed just the other day.

https://www.streamlight.com/en/products/detail/index/protac-rail-mount-hl-x-laser#

That’s actually sort of interesting. May be a little larger than the pictures would first lead one to believe.

It appears that the laser comes right out of the light bezel?

[rob_s]

Rob - there is the Steiner DBAL-PL - https://www.steiner-optics.com/laser-devices/dbal-pl - For pistols and the DBAL-RL - https://www.steiner-optics.com/laser-devices/dbal-rl-v2

I haven't tried either of these, just some other options. They have an advantage of putting the laser above the light, so when flipped upside down for 12 o'clock mounting, the laser would be closer to the bore.



These are sort of interesting,e gen if the pricing outs them kind of out of range. Appears again to be both white/IR illuminations and colored/IR laser modules, which gives me hope that if you were to offer a model that was just white light and colored laser we could get something that was a least maybe 75% of this size. And hopefully far less expensive.

And, if Steiner is doing it at this price, hopefully we’ll get a knockoff/copy/Chinese version that’s 1/3 the price.

[PD Sgt.]

That’s actually sort of interesting. May be a little larger than the pictures would first lead one to believe.

It appears that the laser comes right out of the light bezel?

Not sure, the body does not look overly large compared to the pressure pad from what I can see. I am also assuming the laser is incorporated into the bezel/reflector.

[rob_s]

Not sure, the body does not look overly large compared to the pressure pad from what I can see. I am also assuming the laser is incorporated into the bezel/reflector.

Yeah I more meant the head. The battery tube seems pretty compact based on the pic with the rechargeable battery, but the same pic has me thinking the head/bezel are pretty large compared to other solutions.

53728

[critter]

I had been asking about the Olight one - some people ordered them but I don't know if anyone's had a chance to try one out yet.

I've been playing around with it BALDR Pro (green laser). I've found that for usability of both light and laser, I prefer it at 6:00 or 7:30 on a rifle. From that position it's pretty easy to operate from my left hand grip using index finger for either ON or momentary and also switch between modes. At 7:30 it becomes a 45 degree cc shift that I'm already accustomed to using. From these two positions the left/right offset is mitigated.

The mode switch is a separate switch and is also exposed so it could be unknowingly 'bumped' to a different setting. Standard three settings - light, light/laser, laser, and then strobe mode is activated by pressing both activation switches simultaneously.

I have it sighted in at .9 in low at 25 yds using a bore laser which should keep it reasonably on target out to 200yds (or as far as I can see it without a magnified optic which is probably quite a bit less)

Right now this is all theoretical because I haven't been able to get out and bang it.

ETA: I no longer have a pistol large enough on which BALDR can properly fit so it's limited to rifle.

[El Cid]

These are sort of interesting,e gen if the pricing outs them kind of out of range. Appears again to be both white/IR illuminations and colored/IR laser modules, which gives me hope that if you were to offer a model that was just white light and colored laser we could get something that was a least maybe 75% of this size. And hopefully far less expensive.

And, if Steiner is doing it at this price, hopefully we’ll get a knockoff/copy/Chinese version that’s 1/3 the price.

They do - the SBAL. Still expensive even compared to SF. The TOR is a smaller option too. Never seen one in person.

https://www.steiner-optics.com/pistol-lasers-and-lights

And a friend has one, the HLX is larger than pics would lead one to believe.

[RevolverRob]

These are sort of interesting,e gen if the pricing outs them kind of out of range. Appears again to be both white/IR illuminations and colored/IR laser modules, which gives me hope that if you were to offer a model that was just white light and colored laser we could get something that was a least maybe 75% of this size. And hopefully far less expensive.

And, if Steiner is doing it at this price, hopefully we’ll get a knockoff/copy/Chinese version that’s 1/3 the price.

I realized last night cruising Steiner's lineup - they actually have something cheaper -

The Tor Fusion - https://www.opticsplanet.com/v/7001-steiner-eoptics-tor-fusion-laser.html

Which has the laser from the same bezel as the light. 350 lumens is normal, but it has a "burst mode" feature giving 470 for 1-minute, before it runs down back to 350. It's still kind of tall - but certainly much smaller than the DBAL.

I don't know if it runs on RCR123s or only a standard CR123.

[rob_s]

They do - the SBAL. Still expensive even compared to SF. The TOR is a smaller option too. Never seen one in person.

https://www.steiner-optics.com/pistol-lasers-and-lights

Good to know!

SBAL-PL (https://www.steiner-optics.com/laser-devices/sbal-pl) looks like it’s pretty bulky, but at least the laser is between the light and the bore. Switching doesn’t really look like it would really be viable on a carbine.

53736



Looks like the TOR Fusion (https://www.steiner-optics.com/laser-devices/tor-fusion), the one I assume is the light/Laser, is “coming soon”. I’m guessing the laser comes out of here?

53737

Switching, for a carbine setup, also looks like it my not be ideal
53738

[El Cid]

Good to know!

SBAL-PL (https://www.steiner-optics.com/laser-devices/sbal-pl) looks like it’s pretty bulky, but at least the laser is between the light and the bore. Switching doesn’t really look like it would really be viable on a carbine.

53736



Looks like the TOR Fusion (https://www.steiner-optics.com/laser-devices/tor-fusion), the one I assume is the light/Laser, is “coming soon”. I’m guessing the laser comes out of here?

53737

Switching, for a carbine setup, also looks like it my not be ideal
53738

They have an RL version for long guns. Most pistol lights aren’t going to be ideal for a rifle. And in Steiner’s case they offer a variety of DBAL options. The A4 has a white light but is obviously on the larger side.

https://www.opticsplanet.com/steiner-eoptics-sbal-rl-laser-device-rifle-laser-and-light-combo.html

[Bratch]

Do any of the non-SF options offer a DG style setup? I bought a DG switch a long time again planning to pick up a X400 for the nightstand gun based on Craig and AMIS but I have never completed the purchase.

[El Cid]

Back on topic. As mentioned I haven’t had time to really test them except dry fire. Switches push inward which I don’t consider optimum but they’re easier to use than the original TLR-7 switches.

https://i.imgur.com/tfhxvs8_d.jpg?maxwidth=640&shape=thumb&fidelity=medium

[Screwball]

Back on topic. As mentioned I haven’t had time to really test them except dry fire. Switches push inward which I don’t consider optimum but they’re easier to use than the original TLR-7 switches.

Definitely check out the TLR-7A option. Huge improvement in the switches.

[El Cid]

Definitely check out the TLR-7A option. Huge improvement in the switches.

Already have and yes they are what the lights should’ve been. I have a 7A for my duty weapon and an 8AG for another Glock. The Olights are just to mess around with since the sale prices were crazy. Anything used on duty or for HD is Surefire or Streamlight. Well and my Cloud OWL, but this is more of a handgun discussion.

[rob_s]

Adding to the repository, stumbled on these from Crimson Trace. Do we like/trust them these days?

CMR-205 RAIL MASTER® PRO UNIVERSAL RED LASER SIGHT & TACTICAL LIGHT. Price: $299.99 (https://www.crimsontrace.com/01-4250)

CMR-204 RAIL MASTER® PRO UNIVERSAL GREEN LASER SIGHT & TACTICAL LIGHT. Price: $389.99 (https://www.crimsontrace.com/01-4200)

Lighting capacity seems... lacking by today’s standards, but at least the laser exits between the light and the bore.

The Rail Master Pro also includes a powerful 100 Lumen white light for target identification. The unit features four operational modes including: Laser/Light Constant On, Laser Constant On, Light Constant On, and Laser w/Light Dazzler. Activation is instant, with Tap On, Tap Off controls and a programmed Auto Shut Off at five minutes to conserve battery life.

[Default.mp3]

Haven't met anyone that I trust that liked Viridian, but they've long been a player in the laser game, albeit for handguns: https://viridianweapontech.com/x-series-gen3-learn-more

Same deal with LaserMax: https://www.lasermax.com/sps-c-g.html

If you had dug further into the CT offerings, you would have seen these:
https://www.crimsontrace.com/products/manufacturer/ar-type-rifles/01-5560 (only viable for an AR-type PCC)
https://www.crimsontrace.com/products/manufacturer/ar-type-rifles/01-00020

The latter seems like a pretty cool idea, and probably pretty ideal for most folks looking for a visible spectrum solution, although Midway USA is showing that they're not expecting to get any until November of this year. Not sure if I would actually trust it, just due to the polymer body combined with CT's tendency to lose zero in general (the polymer body in itself isn't inherently a ding, given that the ATPIAL uses it and seem to be fine, I just don't particularly trust CT's execution). The price point also gives me pause, although I guess it is in line with the Streamlight offering.

[Chuck Whitlock]

Adding to the repository, stumbled on these from Crimson Trace. Do we like/trust them these days?

CMR-204 RAIL MASTER® PRO UNIVERSAL GREEN LASER SIGHT & TACTICAL LIGHT. Price: $389.99 (https://www.crimsontrace.com/01-4200)

Lighting capacity seems... lacking by today’s standards, but at least the laser exits between the light and the bore.

The Rail Master Pro also includes a powerful 100 Lumen white light for target identification. The unit features four operational modes including: Laser/Light Constant On, Laser Constant On, Light Constant On, and Laser w/Light Dazzler. Activation is instant, with Tap On, Tap Off controls and a programmed Auto Shut Off at five minutes to conserve battery life.


I acquired a used model from a member here for my mom's railed Browning 1911-380:
https://www.browning.com/products/firearms/pistols/1911-380/current-production/black-label-1911-380-pro-full-size-with-rail.html

It needs the laser adjusted to the sights, and hasn't been shot at the range yet. She is 76 and has eyesight issues which make a laser significantly better than the front sight for her. The 100 lumen light was sufficient for target ID down a hallway or across the common room in their home, which was the criteria that I was after.

[Clusterfrack]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200529/dac2d172d18e74f774a76161d07bd227.jpg

[JohnnyL]

I have a TLR-8AG on my P320-M17 and it is a great light but a pain to find holsters for. I also have a TLR-6 for my P365. I just took a low light / night course where we worked primary hand with EDC lights and weapon mounted lights. Just having a light and free hand made a huge difference in several situations. Having the laser was nice to when we were popping out behind barricades and quick firing. A couple of people tried a few drills with mine pistol and really liked how quickly your could get on target around corners with the laser.

[RevolverRob]

Haven't met anyone that I trust that liked Viridian, but they've long been a player in the laser game, albeit for handguns: https://viridianweapontech.com/x-series-gen3-learn-more

Same deal with LaserMax: https://www.lasermax.com/sps-c-g.html

If you had dug further into the CT offerings, you would have seen these:
https://www.crimsontrace.com/products/manufacturer/ar-type-rifles/01-5560 (only viable for an AR-type PCC)
https://www.crimsontrace.com/products/manufacturer/ar-type-rifles/01-00020

The latter seems like a pretty cool idea, and probably pretty ideal for most folks looking for a visible spectrum solution, although Midway USA is showing that they're not expecting to get any until November of this year. Not sure if I would actually trust it, just due to the polymer body combined with CT's tendency to lose zero in general (the polymer body in itself isn't inherently a ding, given that the ATPIAL uses it and seem to be fine, I just don't particularly trust CT's execution). The price point also gives me pause, although I guess it is in line with the Streamlight offering.

That CMR-301 format is precisely what I am after. I keep thinking the ATPIAL/PEQ/Whatever IR Ilum/Laser format is ideal for a rifle. The shortened (height wise) format and offset of the light and laser, just makes sense. I was hunting for a decent quality visible-only version and that’s it.

Thanks for pointing it out!

[rob_s]

Posts elsewhere seem to indicate this thing isn’t really viable, but bumping this thread back up to add the BALDR mini to the discussion.

https://www.olightstore.com/baldr-mini.html

[Blades]

Nightstick TCM-550XL-GL

[rob_s]

Nightstick TCM-550XL-GL (https://www.baycoproducts.com/product/weapon-mounted-lights/item/tcm-550xl-gl)

Fixed link

https://www.baycoproducts.com/product/weapon-mounted-lights/item/tcm-550xl-gl

[rob_s]

looks like Streamlight has at least put the emitter for the IR version into the bezel with the white light... "only" 300 lumens though?

https://www.amazon.com/Streamlight-69192-TLR-VIR-Illuminator-Locating/dp/B07PKW46K4

[ffhounddog]

300L is fine its more on the focus and throw. I have seen 1000L lights that have do not have a focus or throw be useless where a Surefire M951 had a better focus that made it a better thrower.

[Erick Gelhaus]

300L is fine its more on the focus and throw. I have seen 1000L lights that have do not have a focus or throw be useless where a Surefire M951 had a better focus that made it a better thrower.

Examples of both please?

[Default.mp3]

Examples of both please?The Malkoff E2 HyperThrow head has only 500 lumens, yet has double the candela (35k) of a SureFire M600DF with 1500 lumens (16k candela). So the M600DF is way floodier, and the lack of throw is often seen as a weakness for a rifle-mounted light. The old M600U, ironically, had more throw than the M600DF (22k candela), despite only having 1000 lumens.

[ffhounddog]

There are a lot of cheap weapon lights that you can get from Amazon and other places that say 500-1000 lumens. They have that at the source but when you try and use them for down range to ID others and you can do it from a older surefire M951, M961, or even some of streamlight weapon lights that have a better reflector that lets the lights be able to focus on a longer range target. I have issue with some lights that say I have 1000 lumens but I cannot ID a target at 25-30 yards because it is not focused. That is why you need to take a look at the construction of the light and how the reflectors are. Look at the same number lumen lights in the Surefire lineup with a X300 or a M600 how yes you can use a pistol light on a rifle but the reflector on my M600 is better than my X300 on my rifle and I can ID people at longer ranges than my early made X300U.