870 side folder?

[fatdog]

Peeling from the PDW thread, I think the little Rattler is beyond cool and I get the attraction both as a defensive weapon and the non-NFA travel legal PDW side of things.

As someone who can remember the dozen or so times in my life that ATF has approved something in writing, and then completely changed their mind later (e.g. bump stocks, Akins accellerator, Streetsweeper 12ga, open bolt semi-autos of all types, etc. etc. etc.), I remain skeptical that pistols with side folding braces will remain legal forever. But I hope I am wrong and they opened the floodgates on that sort of thing forever.

For a compact travel friendly PDW'ish thing, but down the shotgun path, I have owned an old Stevens 520 and a 620 (it is a takedown design) that I set up in 18.5" riot gun configuration and 12.5" LOP, as well as a takedown Winchester M12. The advantage of all those is I can take them apart and have something transportable in a package almost as small as the little Rattler. But forget quick deployment.

I find the old over folding versions of the 870 stock to suck for shooting and the LOP was way too long for me. As for the pistol stock only shotgun (or "firearm") variants, I find them all to be an abominable shooting experience and not likely to improve any aspect of my marksmanship over and above my pistol.

I owned one of the Choate side foldering stocks with the pistol grip, it was a wobbly horrible POS.

I think the bullpup configuration shotguns likely have promise but I am not convinced any of them are truly reliable yet, or at least one that is not too heavy and bulky has proven reliable.

I am not ready to trust the bullpup 870 conversions, since I don't have a trusted source to tell me those really work well. Although that would certainly seem to hold promise.

What I wish someone would make is a really a decent practical side folding stock for my 18" 870. Something like the magpul stock but side folding. Like the LAW folding adapter for an AR but it fits the Magpul 870 stock... I don't consider the clones of an AR carbine stock designed to fit the 870 as a decent solution...tried one, it sucked for me shooting it.

I know that a 26" folded 870 package is still too long to fit the ideal PDW profile many think of, and since it is not a rifle or pistol cartridge it is not a real PDW in the classic sense. But it would not be very heavy, would fit any suitcase I own or most gym duffels, some backpacks. And that 870 level of reliability and shootability at least. And for certain as legal of a transportable firearm as anything that size could be. If somebody knows of one such adapter, please post it here.

[CleverNickname]

In the past ~18 years since I bought my first 870, I've tried pretty much every folding or collapsible 870 stock made. The best one is the factory 870 folding stock that Remington came out with a couple years ago. It's sturdy and has a cheek weld that's almost as good as a fixed stock with a pistol grip.

https://www.remington.com/shop/870-12-Ga-Side-Folding-Stock-Kit/p/18604

[LHS]

Dude, I would love it if Magpul came out with either a folding adapter for the SGA, or maybe a convertible stock where the butt detaches from the pistol grip for storage. If a folder, I wouldn't care if it could fire while folded or not, as long as it is quick to deploy.

[fatdog]

factory 870 folding stock that Remington came out with a couple years ago. ..[/url]

Thanks, appears Midwest Gun Works is selling them for $106, I would prefer a non-pistol grip, the more traditional stock, but this may be worth a try. I assume by "sturdy", you don't find the thing to be wobbly once deployed?

[Hambo]

Thanks, appears Midwest Gun Works is selling them for $106, I would prefer a non-pistol grip, the more traditional stock, but this may be worth a try. I assume by "sturdy", you don't find the thing to be wobbly once deployed?

Great minds think alike. I just got mine from MGW on Wednesday, and shot various Foster slugs, Brennekes, and my own 00 reloads through it yesterday. So far I like it more than Benelli fixed PG stocks, and every 870 folder I've ever tried. If you have an oversized safety you need to do some surgery. I'm thinking about putting one on my HD 870, too.

[Mark D]

The folding stocks certainly do reduce the overall size of the gun. The motor cops with a local PD have shotguns with top folders mounted to their bikes.

Anyone know a good folder for a Mossbery 500/590?

[CleverNickname]

Thanks, appears Midwest Gun Works is selling them for $106, I would prefer a non-pistol grip, the more traditional stock, but this may be worth a try. I assume by "sturdy", you don't find the thing to be wobbly once deployed?
Nope, it locks up tight. It has a bias towards closure when partway folded, but it only actually locks in place when it's all the way open.


The folding stocks certainly do reduce the overall size of the gun. The motor cops with a local PD have shotguns with top folders mounted to their bikes.
I bought a new old stock metal Remington top folder like 10 years ago in my quest to find a good 870 folding stock. It looked cool and when folded did reduce the OAL a significant amount. But shooting it was Not Fun.

[DDTSGM]

This is what I did -

https://www.mesatactical.com/products/leo-telescoping-stock-adapter-for-rem-870-12-ga-and-20-ga.html ($80.00)

https://www.lawtactical.com/ar_folding_stock_adapter_gen_3_m_p/99312.htm ($269.00 - got to admit had one already)

https://sylvanarms.com/product/arh300/ ($169.00 - found this while looking for clones of the Law Folder)

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33000806230.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.776277c fEjldU0&algo_pvid=5a18e36e-a866-4bb2-8313-10f913f9cf46&algo_expid=5a18e36e-a866-4bb2-8313-10f913f9cf46-7&btsid=0ab6f82215889997157411629e16b0&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_,searchweb 201603_ (found the clone LOL)

Standard AR carbine tube

AR Stock

AR Pistol grip - use one that does not have a backstrap filler

Got to admit, I probably wouldn't have done it, except I had all the pieces EXCEPT the Mesa Tactical adaptor.

[GearFondler]

This is what I did -

https://www.mesatactical.com/products/leo-telescoping-stock-adapter-for-rem-870-12-ga-and-20-ga.html ($80.00)

https://www.lawtactical.com/ar_folding_stock_adapter_gen_3_m_p/99312.htm ($269.00 - got to admit had one already)

https://sylvanarms.com/product/arh300/ ($169.00 - found this while looking for clones of the Law Folder)

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33000806230.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.776277c fEjldU0&algo_pvid=5a18e36e-a866-4bb2-8313-10f913f9cf46&algo_expid=5a18e36e-a866-4bb2-8313-10f913f9cf46-7&btsid=0ab6f82215889997157411629e16b0&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_,searchweb 201603_ (found the clone LOL)

Standard AR carbine tube

AR Stock

AR Pistol grip - use one that does not have a backstrap filler

Got to admit, I probably wouldn't have done it, except I had all the pieces EXCEPT the Mesa Tactical adaptor.No-pic Fail

[fatdog]

I agree this Remington folder is the sturdiest I have ever handled. I am not a fan of pistol grips on shotguns in general, but this setup is acceptable as it gets the folded unit down to about 26" with an 18" barrel. Had to file on the top of the pistol grip for a while to accommodate my oversized safety, but not that hard to fix. Thanks CleverNickname for the tip!

[Dave J]

Has anyone measured the LOP with this new Remington side folder mounted?

[Screwball]

I owned one of the Choate side foldering stocks with the pistol grip, it was a wobbly horrible POS.

This one?

https://www.riflestock.com/store/product/m4-telescoping-folding-stock-remington-lightweight-870-and-pump-rifles/

Because Suarez used it with his TAC-14 braces... and I’ve found it to be the most solid folding mechanism I’ve ever seen.

I’m doing a Form 1 my TAC-14 to AOW, so I can legally put it back on (will also swap in a SBA3 at the same time).

[fatdog]

This one?

https://www.riflestock.com/store/product/m4-telescoping-folding-stock-remington-lightweight-870-and-pump-rifles/

Because Suarez used it with his TAC-14 braces... and I’ve found it to be the most solid folding mechanism I’ve ever seen.



No, the old all polymer one they have made for 25 years is a wobbly POS.

[fatdog]

Has anyone measured the LOP with this new Remington side folder mounted?


13.5 without spacers, they ship a couple of spacers with it.

[Joe Mac]

You guys are responsible for me dropping $110 on one of those -- thinking I might turn one of my 870s into a compact bag gun for the truck... If the stock works out, I'll be in search of a bag that takes advantage of the length.

[Screwball]

No, the old all polymer one they have made for 25 years is a wobbly POS.

Take a look at that one... very solid setup. Plus, it is easy to use.

[coldcase1984]

It hurts my head to do math, but the above post means my stamped SBS Wingmaster Magnum OAL with that folder would be 20.5-in.

What fun!

[fatdog]

It hurts my head to do math, but the above post means my stamped SBS Wingmaster Magnum OAL with that folder would be 20.5-in.

What fun!

I am moving mine to my registered 14" 870 SBS this week so hang on a few days and I will tell you exactly.....

[coldcase1984]

Sorry buddy, I failed to mention I had the original blued 20-in. RS bbl cut to 12.5-in. That's what I based my Resource Math data upon.

It was formerly my issued Narcotics unit shotgun circus summer '95. I bought it when dept. traded it about 2010. I'd installed XS BDT Express sight on it way back when I was a brand new action figure. Tritium is half-past dead but kept
them on board after the circumsion.

I've already started process of turning my ol' thunderbuddy into my retirement barbecue gun with some laser engraving (starting to wish I'd gone with cut engraving...) Including the trust engraving.

[fatdog]

That sounds like a very cool SBS setup.

To ease your math problem, this stock, when folded, adds exactly 2" as measured from the top rear corner of the receiver.55118

[SeriousStudent]

You know, that picture makes me wonder about an Aridus adapter mounted on the underside of that folding stock......

Hmm. Speaking as someone that has an SBS built on a 12.5" Wingmaster that I did a Form 1 on, this could be very interesting.

I'd also love to build an adapter for a Remington Tac-13, and try that folder with it.

[LHS]

13.5 without spacers, they ship a couple of spacers with it.

Argh, I wish companies besides Magpul would get the memo about starting at 12.5" LOP instead of 13.5"

[Parf]

Fatdog,

Have you seen what Rhett N. of Demonstrated Concepts is doing with birds head grip shotguns with his recoil strap mod? He's a member of our Shivworks Colorado Training group. I got to try his method out, and it was fast, easy, and painless. I was pretty shocked by it, because I hate pistol grip shotguns.

I don't think I'll purchase a stocked defensive shotgun again at this point.



https://youtu.be/lMx4xPJ7_hY



https://youtu.be/h7vVg8AdICw

[LHS]

I've been very intrigued by what Rhett's been doing with trashcannons, but it's something I want to experience firsthand before I commit to doing anything, and from what he's told me, it seems to work a lot better with semis than with pump guns.


Fatdog,

Have you seen what Rhett N. of Demonstrated Concepts is doing with birds head grip shotguns with his recoil strap mod? He's a member of our Shivworks Colorado Training group. I got to try his method out, and it was fast, easy, and painless. I was pretty shocked by it, because I hate pistol grip shotguns.

I don't think I'll purchase a stocked defensive shotgun again at this point.



https://youtu.be/lMx4xPJ7_hY



https://youtu.be/h7vVg8AdICw

[03RN]

Fatdog,

Have you seen what Rhett N. of Demonstrated Concepts is doing with birds head grip shotguns with his recoil strap mod? He's a member of our Shivworks Colorado Training group. I got to try his method out, and it was fast, easy, and painless. I was pretty shocked by it, because I hate pistol grip shotguns.

I don't think I'll purchase a stocked defensive shotgun again at this point.



https://youtu.be/lMx4xPJ7_hY



https://youtu.be/h7vVg8AdICw

Less pattern is better with buckshot.:rolleyes:

Great shooting though. I would love to try a tac13.

[TCinVA]

I've been very intrigued by what Rhett's been doing with trashcannons, but it's something I want to experience firsthand before I commit to doing anything, and from what he's told me, it seems to work a lot better with semis than with pump guns.

Looking at the way he's holding the gun, he's going to eventually pay a significant price in his joints, especially his left elbow.

[DamonL]

Demonstrated Concepts LLC has several other You Tube videos about his technique. Here are a couple:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dpBoD5eV3hg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z6H6Ae0gmRg&list=UU3ZSvyxYpdQOnRUseGV7lmw&index=35

[JTMcC]

Fatdog,

Have you seen what Rhett N. of Demonstrated Concepts is doing with birds head grip shotguns with his recoil strap mod? He's a member of our Shivworks Colorado Training group. I got to try his method out, and it was fast, easy, and painless. I was pretty shocked by it, because I hate pistol grip shotguns.

I don't think I'll purchase a stocked defensive shotgun again at this point.



https://youtu.be/lMx4xPJ7_hY



https://youtu.be/h7vVg8AdICw

That's very interesting, thanks.
I've been doing similar for years with an old style steel side folder for different reasons. I let the stock slide by my cheek and it works fine, and lets me fire stout 3" loads with no drama.

Side folders are excellent for my use, better to store or strap to a ruck and MUCH better getting in and out of a truck.

[03RN]

Looking at the way he's holding the gun, he's going to eventually pay a significant price in his joints, especially his left elbow.

In one video it looked slightly bent, the other one it looked locked out. Never lock out joints. A slight bend where muscles absorb the impact is what you want.

[Rex G]

To offer a comment on the hand-strap seen in the Demonstrated Concepts video, it does, in its present form, look likes it works on one chosen side of the weapon, but it would, I think, be possible to make one that is ambidextrous. It would, however, take an extra moment to get snugly into that strap, if switching hands.

I cleared many buildings, with stocked shotguns, while working for the PD, and regarded ambidextrous handling to be vital. Of course, a home-defender is not necessarily going to be clearing the house. A home defender who has prior notice of trouble can choose a static defensive position, making it less likely to need to switch positions on the weapon.

To be clear, I am not dismissing the Demonstrated Concepts strap, as I really like his creative thinking, and, I do have ongoing roles for stock-less shotguns. One is my old duty 870P, now equipped with a Pachmayr Vindicator grip, and the other is a TAC-14, with Shockwave grip, that I bought after retirement from LEO-ing. I plan to (carefully) start trying some of what I saw in the Demonstrated Concepts videos. If things look promising, I may well add a suitable auto-loader, and equip it with a Shockwave grip.

I did switch to a Benelli M2, as a duty shotgun, for the last couple of years of my policin’ days. Pumping the fore-end, with the weapon shouldered, was becoming problematic for due to a gimp support-side shoulder. Installing a shorter-LOP stock helped, but my long arms “wanted” a long stock, so a switch to an auto-loader seemed wise. Running the pump, in a stockless configuration, is not a problem, for me, as the body mechanics are different when the weapon is closer to the body.

Benellis have recoil spring tubes, hidden within their stocks, so cannot be made into “whippets.”

[Seven_Sicks_Two]

You know, that picture makes me wonder about an Aridus adapter mounted on the underside of that folding stock......

Hmm. Speaking as someone that has an SBS built on a 12.5" Wingmaster that I did a Form 1 on, this could be very interesting.

I'd also love to build an adapter for a Remington Tac-13, and try that folder with it.

I realize this post is old, but I just thought I'd throw it out there in case it's still relevant to the poster...

The Tac-13 uses an adapter shim to allow it to accept the Raptor birdshead grip (which is 870 pattern). I suspect (but can't confirm) that the factory 870 sidefolder would bolt right up to the Tac-13 as long as the adaptor was left in-place.