I think I want a canoe

[Welder]

I've been on a few canoe trips, one of them an overnighter, and I'm warming up to the idea of maybe buying my own. I'm usually out with 4 other people, so I'm thinking if I had one that could haul 2 or 3, that'd be nice. The canoeing around here is on small lakes or on the Shenandoah River. There are small whitewater areas, but nothing to write home about. I'm not competing, I'm not racing, I'm just floating down a slow (often shallow) river with some friends, from late Spring to early Fall.

I don't know what I don't know about canoeing. I see these different brands listed, and I don't know what's what quality-wise. I'm probably going to be buying used, spending $500 or less...preferably half that. I know there are awesome wooden super canoes out there, but much like expensive watches -- that's just not my thing.

Could somebody here who's somewhat of an SME on things that get paddled on the river give me sort of a rundown on what features I want, what features I don't want...talk to me about paddles, seats, life jackets, whatever in the wide world of canoes that comes to your mind. Aluminum and fiberglass seem to be the 2 materials I see in most ads. Besides the $3k wooden canoes of NoVA.

Oh yeah, for transport I have an '04 Outback stationwagon with the factory cross-bars on the racks. From my work, I've got tons of small ratchet straps and bungees already. Advice on anything else I'd need is more than welcome too.

I know it's not canoe-forum, but I also know there are SME's about almost anything here. When you get a chance, love to hear what you have to say on this subject.

[Robinson]

When I was a kid my brother and I frequently paddled up and down the river in our Grumman aluminum canoe. Nothing fancy but it was always reliable and easy to use.

[LittleLebowski]

TBone550 I’ve got two perfectly good kayaks you can have. Nothing wrong with them.

[OlongJohnson]

Threadkiller! I was looking forward to getting my learn on.

Grew up playing in little boats, but my people were the poors and they were always heavy.

[JDD]

I've been on a few canoe trips, one of them an overnighter, and I'm warming up to the idea of maybe buying my own. I'm usually out with 4 other people, so I'm thinking if I had one that could haul 2 or 3, that'd be nice. The canoeing around here is on small lakes or on the Shenandoah River. There are small whitewater areas, but nothing to write home about. I'm not competing, I'm not racing, I'm just floating down a slow (often shallow) river with some friends, from late Spring to early Fall.

I don't know what I don't know about canoeing. I see these different brands listed, and I don't know what's what quality-wise. I'm probably going to be buying used, spending $500 or less...preferably half that. I know there are awesome wooden super canoes out there, but much like expensive watches -- that's just not my thing.

Could somebody here who's somewhat of an SME on things that get paddled on the river give me sort of a rundown on what features I want, what features I don't want...talk to me about paddles, seats, life jackets, whatever in the wide world of canoes that comes to your mind. Aluminum and fiberglass seem to be the 2 materials I see in most ads. Besides the $3k wooden canoes of NoVA.

Oh yeah, for transport I have an '04 Outback stationwagon with the factory cross-bars on the racks. From my work, I've got tons of small ratchet straps and bungees already. Advice on anything else I'd need is more than welcome too.

I know it's not canoe-forum, but I also know there are SME's about almost anything here. When you get a chance, love to hear what you have to say on this subject.

This is somewhat less helpful to you based on your price range, but Old Town Canoe and Mad River Canoe are two of the bigger names. I am partial to Old Town, but I will accept that Mad River makes some good ones as well.

Materials: most of the big names have a plastic material of one brand name or another. Fiberglass tends to be lighter/faster and often more expensive, but more fragile if you are in white water or bouncing over rocks. I have seem old town canoes completely wrapped around rocks in the middle of a river, pulled off with a come-along, and then repaired by screwing new seats and gunnels on. The plastic boats are substantially more durable than any of the other options. I don't have much experience with aluminum boats, aside from the noises they make when they find rocks...

Size: Are you planning to go just the 2 or 3 of you in one boat, or do you plan to do overnight/multi day river camping trips. If not, a 15 or 16 foot boat is probably going to be right for you. If you are planning camping, you might want to size up a little larger, although a 16' is definitely enough for 2 people and all their gear camping. I grew up with a 17'4" old town discovery, great for river trips and camping, but it was slower and more unwieldy when paddling around without a bunch of camping gear.

Accessories: For general recreation, you are already all set. Life jackets and paddles is really all you need. I like to have a bow and stern line tied on, but it is not really necessary. If you are planning to race or do a lot of whitewater, you might want some positive buoyancy bags of some sort (much more important if you have a boat that does not naturally float when swamped). If you are planning day trips, a cooler that you can tie to one of the crossbars is pretty useful - but I suspect you don't need advice on that front.

Transport: All you need is 2 cinch straps, one to go over, around and back on each of your roof racks, and a bow and stern line. I think I have seen more canoes on outbacks than any other vehicle.

[Welder]

OK I'm no good at multi-quoting, but here's the gist of what I see so far...

LL, you are *nuts*! I won't accept a free gift like that but I'll scrounge through my stuff and see what I have that I can trade you. Idk much about kayaks, but if you really don't want them I can make them disappear without any financial loss on your part. We can talk about this by PM when the time comes.

That said, I'm really still looking for an actual canoe....I'd like to put 2 or 3 people in one boat; that's what I'm enjoying most at this point although kayaks have their own place and are also FUN!

Thanks JDD for your detailed advice! That's exactly the sort of thing I'm hoping to see here. Talk to me about the equipment, the experiences, the screw-ups, whatever. Love to hear it.

[Cookie Monster]

Following with interest, I need a floating device I can put two crazy 4 year olds in and paddle a little bit, something my 5'8", 150lb, 45 year old excuse for a body can move around.

[MickAK]

Something you might want to consider on aluminum versus fiberglass or plastic is if you already have an aluminum TIG setup and possibly some sheet scraps around you can make repairs easier on an aluminum boat. At that price range, you might look for a nice aluminum canoe with a big hole in it - obviously not going to sell for much, but generally a pretty simple repair if you're an aluminum welder.

[Welder]

Something you might want to consider on aluminum versus fiberglass or plastic is if you already have an aluminum TIG setup and possibly some sheet scraps around you can make repairs easier on an aluminum boat. At that price range, you might look for a nice aluminum canoe with a big hole in it - obviously not going to sell for much, but generally a pretty simple repair if you're an aluminum welder.

Yeah I don't get much call for aluminum work; what I do, I handle with a spoolgun because it's thicker stuff. But I can fart around with a TIG enough to make an airtight weld; the last and only paid TIG work I did was on a high-pressure hydraulic tube 8 years ago which is still holding. I wonder what canoe aluminum is? 4043? Or just 3003? Certainly not 5356.

[Clay1]

I'm a shooter first, but I happen to post on 7 different kayak forums. I'm biased for sure, but you don't see any canoe bass fishing tournaments (at least not that I am aware of) but Kayak Bass Fishing is huge. Many tournaments out there. You would fish a tournament for the same reason that you would shoot a match. Experience and to test your own skill set. A sit on top is more stable than a canoe and a great fishing platform.

I don't want to make this post forever long, just planting the seed to look at a Kayak. LL's offer is generous indeed.

[MickAK]

Yeah I don't get much call for aluminum work; what I do, I handle with a spoolgun because it's thicker stuff. But I can fart around with a TIG enough to make an airtight weld; the last and only paid TIG work I did was on a high-pressure hydraulic tube 8 years ago which is still holding. I wonder what canoe aluminum is? 4043? Or just 3003? Certainly not 5356.

I think you could use a spoolgun just fine but you might have to cut the patch out to the frames. Aluminum canoes are a good bit heavier though, so that might be less than ideal for getting on top of an Outback.

[rd62]

I'm no SME but have done some canoing. Bith flat and whitewater. Growing up a buddy's family owned a canoe Nd kayak outdoor center and now he has his own. I never had to buy one as they had a warehouse full to use. That said they had Old Town and I took that as a clue. They took a licking and kept on tickin. I'd buy one.

[Eric_L]

I canoe some. I did white water canoeing in TN when I lived there. Buy a light one. It seems you are always carrying it. Humping a heavy one is NO FUN!

There are sites that have used canoes.

[Eric_L]

I'm a shooter first, but I happen to post on 7 different kayak forums. I'm biased for sure, but you don't see any canoe bass fishing tournaments (at least not that I am aware of) but Kayak Bass Fishing is huge. Many tournaments out there. You would fish a tournament for the same reason that you would shoot a match. Experience and to test your own skill set. A sit on top is more stable than a canoe and a great fishing platform.

I don't want to make this post forever long, just planting the seed to look at a Kayak. LL's offer is generous indeed.

Canoe vs kayak: half the paddle, twice the paddler..... 😎
I’m ribbing you.

[Clay1]

Canoe vs kayak: half the paddle, twice the paddler..... 😎
I’m ribbing you.

Actually, these days, I pedal: Hobie Pro Angler 14: https://www.hobie.com/kayaks/mirage-pro-angler-14/

I have a 16' Lund walleye boat in the garage, I prefer the yak.

[Eric_L]

Actually, these days, I pedal: Hobie Pro Angler 14: https://www.hobie.com/kayaks/mirage-pro-angler-14/

I have a 16' Lund walleye boat in the garage, I prefer the yak.

I did not know the fishing kayaks were that sophisticated.....

[Clay1]

I did not know the fishing kayaks were that sophisticated.....

That boat is not for everyone, but there are plenty of plastic boats that are sub $500 that a person can have a blast. Get a kayak, get a canoe - it's all good. Time on the water is a great place to be.

[OlongJohnson]

Some quick searching seems to show that, compared to Old Town offerings, if you are willing to spend 2-3x, you can cut weight by ~50 percent. That would be a game changer for getting into, out of and between certain kinds of water, and well worth the money if that's what you wanted to do. Or for who could do it solo. With Ti in my spine, a 40-45 lb cartop boat is a lot more interesting to me than one that's 80-90 lb.

On the other hand, those boats would likely have been destroyed by how I and the idiot friends I hung out with as a kid used them around pebbly beaches and jagged rocks.


My parents did some interesting canoeing when I was too young to participate. On one trip, the aluminum canoe got stuck on a rock in some whitewater pretty good. My dad hammered it back to straight so it looked surprisingly good, but some of the rivets never again held water out. It's still sitting on blocks in the back yard, but the Old Town that replaced it has gotten a decent amount of use over the years.

[Lex Luthier]

Light weight?

I'll just leave this right here.

http://www.gentrycustomboats.com

I've been conversing with him via e-mail about a few of his sailing designs, as well as the Ruth rowing wherry. He's a good guy and designs well.
There are a lot of his boats out there as they're simple to build & durable.

If building to suit one's self isn't the right thing, well, never mind.

[peterb]

Some quick searching seems to show that, compared to Old Town offerings, if you are willing to spend 2-3x, you can cut weight by ~50 percent. That would be a game changer for getting into, out of and between certain kinds of water, and well worth the money if that's what you wanted to do. Or for who could do it solo. With Ti in my spine, a 40-45 lb cartop boat is a lot more interesting to me than one that's 80-90 lb.

On the other hand, those boats would likely have been destroyed by how I and the idiot friends I hung out with as a kid used them around pebbly beaches and jagged rocks.

Yup. If you’re going to be cartopping, weight makes a big difference. If loading the canoe is something you dread you aren’t going to use it much. If you live near water and can just drag it in, weight doesn’t matter so much.

Most inexpensive canoes are some sort of polyethylene. It’s flexible and abrasion resistant, so tolerates abuse, but is not very stiff. Some inexpensive canoes have an aluminum brace in the hull to help it hold shape. The Old Towns use a 3-layer construction that is rugged but heavy.

Aluminum is durable. It’s also noisy, cold in cold water, and sticks to rocks instead of sliding.

There used to be a foamed ABS material called Royalex, which was a good balance of durability and weight, but the company that made the sheets went out of business.

Composite materials - Kevlar/glass/carbon - tend to be in more expensive, lighter canoes. Great for flat water and rivers with few rocks, not so great if you play river pinball.

Flat bottoms feel more stable at first, but the stability can decrease abruptly as they heel. A shallow arch shape will feel less stable at rest but will be more predictable as it heels.

Whitewater canoes are designed to turn easily and are difficult to paddle in a straight line. Racing canoes will feel very unstable.

If you just want something to float down a gentle river, and aren’t worried about performance, almost anything watertight should work. Buy something used and have fun.

Wicked light weight: https://www.gaboats.com/

[OlongJohnson]

peterb

I'm pretty sure my age and shoe size were in the single digits when I became aware of Platt Monfort's work. I believe I need something that can take a little more scratching on sticks and rocks without pressing pause on the trip to fix it.

I grew up in a town with about 15,000 people and seven marinas, not too far from misanthropist's digs. The interesting mix of wealthy yacht owners, hippies who like building things and people who killed fish for a living led to boat building of all forms being a thing, from strip-built canoes and kayaks in garages and basements to decent-sized ocean-going vessels down at the port. My first few real jobs were all in the industry.

There's a part of me that really wants one of these:

https://www.clcboats.com/shop/boats/rowboats/annapolis-wherry-row-boat-kit.html

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It's virtually aesthetic perfection. But I know I also really don't need another project of that magnitude.

[mtnbkr]

TBone550 I’ve got two perfectly good kayaks you can have. Nothing wrong with them.

TBone550, take the kayaks even if you get a canoe or two. Use the canoe for hauling gear and put your overflow peeps in the kayaks. For unloaded day trips, kayaks are more fun than canoes even on still water. Gliding along down at water level (assuming sit-in kayaks and not sit-on) is peaceful and relaxing (especially if you bring beer). A buddy of mine has a couple sit-ins and we have taken a few day trips (5-11 miles) down the Bull Run and Occoquan creeks here in NoVA.

One warning though...
If you get ahead of your friend(s) and want to linger mid stream so they can catch up, DO NOT grab that overhead branch so you can stay in place. You will turn perpendicular to the current and you will roll over enough that you take on water. You will sink. You will get wet. :D

Or so I've heard. :rolleyes:

Semi-related...I would love to find a lanyard stud that could replace the grip screw in my LCR (such are made for standard Hogue grips, but the LCR's is a bit different). I think that would be the bee's knees for snake and pirate repellent while kayaking/canoeing.

ETA:
I took this picture nearly 2 years ago while kayak fishing on the Occoquan Creek near Manassas after a bunch of summer storms had passed through the area. With the high water and wet trees dripping, it felt like kayaking down the Amazon. I caught a huge (to me) catfish on a white grub jig. It pulled me around a bit. :D

There was a bald eagle's nest nearby and I got to watch her (I presume, wouldn't want to assume gender) fly around. I could hear chicks in the nest too.

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Chris

[Poconnor]

I have my grandfather’s old town wooden Canoe. It needs to be restored and I should sell it. I haven’t use it in decades. But I have too many great memories of it from my childhood. I’m sure wooden canoes are not as durable as a modern canoe but a wood and canvas canoe is quiet when it glides through the water. I really should reskin it and take it on a vacation to a lake in Maine.

[vaspence]

I’m a big fan of Old Town canoes for the type of boating you’re talking about doing. Easily one of the most popular canoes in Virginia and very durable. They come used in two types of materials. Light (royalex) and not light (any Discovery series or polyethylene).

The royalex boats are noticeably lighter than the Discoverys. The royalex boats are no longer made by Old Town but there are a gazillion of them out there and they are on craigslist frequently. I have two of them, a Pathfinder (14’19, 57lbs) and a Camper (16’, 59lbs). I’ve owned my Pathfinder since 1994 and I bought the Camper used a couple years ago from a guy who bought in the late 90s. Either will handle a couple of guys and gear for a trip. They are also easily carried by one person. I routinely have my two youngest boys in these canoes with me and we have plenty of room for a day trip fishing.

The Discovery series are tanks. We have 2 158s (15’8, 80lbs). They can be a handful by yourself but good technique helps save the back when loading/unloading. You can’t hurt them and my two were used as rental boats by us for the last 8 years. Once you have them in the water and loaded they are awesome. Fairly unsinkable, we used them to get my oldest son’s scout troop ready for a BWCA trip and they swamped the boats at least a dozen times. We’ve also had it happen a couple of times to renters on the river.

Aluminum Canoes - The first canoe I bought was a Grumman 17’. I paddled the tar out of that boat on the James here in Richmond and it held up fine. It was a “geologist boat” as it seemed to find and bang off every rock in the river. Or at least the ones it didn’t stick to. A great canoe and I’d buy another one in a heartbeat if it came around for a good price and I needed a canoe. When we did the BWCA trip with my son’s scout troop we took the 18’ Grumman they had over the two WeNoNah fiberglass/Kevlar canoes and had a ball. They do have a small keel on the bottom which will find rocks in rivers but on a lake it seems to help with tracking. Or at least I told myself so. They also do a good job as a party bar when supported by two sawhorses and filled with ice.

I don’t claim to be an SME but I just closed a kayak/canoe/paddleboard rental/guiding business I owned for 8 years. I gave the above information based on my own preferences and experiences. However, my experience also shows that the guy in the $150 Walmart kayak or $300 craigslist Coleman canoe has just as much fun as the guy in the $1000+ kayak or canoe.

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[Welder]

Man, this is great, keep it coming.

Is ease of repair the main advantage of an aluminum canoe? Or is it just an obsolete material these days that has a taste of nostalgia attached? Or???? Being a metalworker by trade, I'm naturally curious about the material choices.

[Trigger]

Funny this thread should arise, my wife is currently shopping for a kayak. Something simple to toss in the 4Runner and go flat water paddling for a little evening exercise.

[flyrodr]

Man, this is great, keep it coming.

Is ease of repair the main advantage of an aluminum canoe? Or is it just an obsolete material these days that has a taste of nostalgia attached? Or???? Being a metalworker by trade, I'm naturally curious about the material choices.

It's been a long time since I had a canoe, or shopped for one. Several of the comments received so far probably ought to be bolded/underlined.

For instance, the (and please excuse the lack of proper terms for canoe parts) "general purpose" canoes are OK at most things, but not necessarily the best at any. They track straight, because the keel is flat. And thus they don't turn as well as "whitewater" canoes that have more rocker (I think that's the term), where there's less of the keel on the water. Thus they turn better . . . or veer off course if your paddling isn't up to par.

Weight - - - I'll echo the earlier post. Light is good, 'cause you'll be carrying the canoe, lifting it up and into/on your vehicle.

Material. I'm not sure if this is current, but aluminum has near zero upkeep (assuming you don't beat holes into it). It is terribly noisy and cold (assuming the water is cold). It can be patched. And rivets can work loose and need replacing. Fiberglass is universal, because it's easy to work with, pretty durable, and OK to repair. Kevlar and similar techy relatives can make a lighter canoe, but don't think they're "bulletproof" like a vest. Best I remember, these materials produced a stiffer/lighter hull. The molded poly materials are usually chosen because they can be practically beaten to death without an issue. But, the molded canoes can't be (or in the past weren't able to be) molded into as complex curves as a glass/kevlar boat can be. They are more rounded on the "edges". And, pretty much lacking any frame, they are more flexible. Together those two features make them less desirable in flat water. Many are heavier than the corresponding glass or aluminum canoe.

Maintenance/Storage. Consider where you'll store the canoes. If inside a garage or shed, no particular issue. If outside, any wooden parts (think the nice gunwales/seats on a glass/kevlar canoe) can be damaged by prolonged outside storage if not kept up. Don't know if you're in a place where theft is an issue, but canoes left outside can be tempting targets for drive-by theft.

Best guidance I got back when I was first shopping was at an outdoor store that sold all sorts of canoes, and allowed "test drives". If they offer all, they can give you pros/cons of each, and maybe even have some used ones.

Good luck!

[Seven_Sicks_Two]

This thread is relevant to my interests...

My shooting/hunting buddy and I have been kicking around the idea of picking up a Craigslist canoe to get into some tough to reach sports on the Columbia River for next year's duck season.

Other than a little experience 20+ years ago at Boy Scout camp, I know next to nothing about canoeing.

[MickAK]

Man, this is great, keep it coming.

Is ease of repair the main advantage of an aluminum canoe? Or is it just an obsolete material these days that has a taste of nostalgia attached? Or???? Being a metalworker by trade, I'm naturally curious about the material choices.

Aluminum is definitely considered an obsolete material. Really, fiberglass repair isn't that hard or expensive. I just think at your price point you might have a tough time finding a decent canoe and you're more likely to find a good aluminum one that has a hole in it and therefore getting sold for nothing if it didn't get scrapped. If you've never welded on old aluminum it can be a pain.

I believe the aluminum canoe thing came from Grumman wanting to stay in business and decided to make canoes. It's considerably more expensive to set up to make aluminum canoes versus modern plastics/fiberglass, but they are iconic and so still exist.

[Welder]

Aluminum is definitely considered an obsolete material. Really, fiberglass repair isn't that hard or expensive. I just think at your price point you might have a tough time finding a decent canoe and you're more likely to find a good aluminum one that has a hole in it and therefore getting sold for nothing if it didn't get scrapped. If you've never welded on old aluminum it can be a pain.

I believe the aluminum canoe thing came from Grumman wanting to stay in business and decided to make canoes. It's considerably more expensive to set up to make aluminum canoes versus modern plastics/fiberglass, but they are iconic and so still exist.

Yeah, I did some extra reading this afternoon. From what I gather, alum's main advantage is that it can be stored outside indefinitely, where the other materials react with the sunlight and / or weather. Having worked with aluminum in the past, I absolutely believe them when they talk about temperature transfer from it on a hot or cold day magnifying your 'experience.' From some weight comparisons, it's often but not always a few pounds heavier than a comparable non-metallic canoe. Several people mentioned that it would stick to rocks rather than slide over, but also that if it got dented you could just hammer the dents back out and be on your way. Unless it was wrapped around a rock or the frame structure was damaged. Rivets could leak but there's sealer for that.

Looking at prices in my area, yeah, I can pick up an aluminum canoe for a couple hundred bucks. But also the cheap (I guess) Pelican and Coleman canoes are in that price range.

[MickAK]

Yeah, I did some extra reading this afternoon. From what I gather, alum's main advantage is that it can be stored outside indefinitely, where the other materials react with the sunlight and / or weather. Having worked with aluminum in the past, I absolutely believe them when they talk about temperature transfer from it on a hot or cold day magnifying your 'experience.' From some weight comparisons, it's often but not always a few pounds heavier than a comparable non-metallic canoe. Several people mentioned that it would stick to rocks rather than slide over, but also that if it got dented you could just hammer the dents back out and be on your way. Unless it was wrapped around a rock or the frame structure was damaged. Rivets could leak but there's sealer for that.

Looking at prices in my area, yeah, I can pick up an aluminum canoe for a couple hundred bucks. But also the cheap (I guess) Pelican and Coleman canoes are in that price range.

One benefit of an aluminum canoe is it makes a great beer cooler for parties and a neat flower planter if it stops getting used!

[Joe in PNG]

A buddy of mine here had a book on how to make wooden Hawaiian style outrigger canoes. And being a craftsman, he built it carefully, took his time, finished it beautifully with marine epoxy, and when it was done, put it in the water.

Two problems. One, he kind of built it a bit too short. Two, the wood he used is PNG kwila- a super hard, super heavy wood similar to rosewood or ebony. When in the water, the boat hardly floated. He had maybe a half inch of boat out of the water with him in it.

So, it wound up as a flower planter.

[peterb]

However, my experience also shows that the guy in the $150 Walmart kayak or $300 craigslist Coleman canoe has just as much fun as the guy in the $1000+ kayak or canoe.]

As is so often said here, “mission drives the gear train.” If you just want to get out on the water with family and friends, the gear requirements are pretty loose — almost any recreational canoe that’s watertight, not bent too badly, and roughly the right capacity can be a lot of fun. If you care about performance — going fast, going far, going in rougher conditions, portaging — it makes sense to consider a nicer boat and paddle.

[peterb]

OlongJohnson

Yup, the Annapolis Wherry does have nice lines. Here's a similar boat in strip-built construction that makes me go a bit weak in the knees:

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http://www.newfound.com/liz.htm

If you want to row but simpler construction, there are other options, including these: http://www.merrywherry.com/merry.html

One of the most impressive boats I've rowed has been one of these: https://adirondack-guide-boat.com/internationally-acclaimed-row-boat/
The original design was developed as something that could carry a guide, client, and gear and still be light enough to portage. If you look at the hull there's a lot of flare, so it's very narrow and efficient when lightly loaded. Note the lack of wake in the video clip.

Back to canoes.....

This is an inexpensive DIY way to get on the water: https://www.amazon.com/Building-Six-Hour-Canoe-Richard-Butz/dp/0961039671

This is a simple stitch & glue solo canoe I built from precut panels.
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First time out, hadn't decided where to install the seat yet.

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Putting in the first fillet after stitching the panels and epoxying the seams.
4mm mahogany marine plywood with a layer of 4oz glass inside & out. I forgot what I used for the trim. It's a bit wide for me as a solo, but has been a great dog boat.

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If you're willing to invest in a boat that you can easily lift for years to come, these are very nice. I went to the shop and demoed them. Serious want. https://placidboatworks.com/

[TheDLoon]

This is such a wonderful, cathartic thread.

When I was in college I worked at our Outdoor Pursuits Center and we rented out those plastic material Old Town canoes. I have many great memories with those, including two Spring Break canoe-camping trips on the Buffalo River in Arkansas. One thing that we did to all our canoes was patch on these kevlar strips to the bow and stern to save the hull whenever beaching (or running into things). We did have one canoe that broadsided a rock pretty hard and had this big dent right in the side. It still floated though!

[Maple Syrup Actual]

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Thanks for tagging me - I hadn't noticed this thread but I do love canoes (and kayaks). I find kayaks better suited to the ocean here but canoes I love for lakes, which we also have of course. Of the handful of happy childhood memories I have, probably a full third were from this point when my mom went back to school, and while she was in university they briefly had this program where kids who were taking the right combination of courses could get summer jobs as camp counselors at this university-based summer camp which was run mostly for the children of the staff, but also for the occasional mature student with kids. It hardly cost anything since it was all run with university funds, and on university grounds, and anyway, it was basically a freebie for the profs but I benefited also. Anyway, the university owns this forestry and field biology site up at a place called Lake Cowichan, which is a pretty big, deep lake surrounded by park land, and every year at this camp we'd spend a couple of weeks at the university, partly in the pool swimming and training rescue stuff etc in canoes, partly doing kid-geared forestry and biology courses, then a week up at the field lab, continuing the classes and canoeing out on increasingly long day trips from there, then go for a week-long canoe trip starting from there and camping at sites all around the lake. I went for three years starting when I was about 10 or 11 and did tons and tons of canoeing as a result; it was one of the best times I ever had as a kid. My cousin also went so the two of us shared a canoe and we're both still pretty handy with them, actually. He went on and did a bunch of whitewater stuff, and I went on and did a lot of fishing stuff, and I'm sure that spending a canoe-focused month every summer for a few years was the thing that put us both on the water so much.


I guess that was all unnecessary detail but the point is that even though I find kayaks a better match for the salt chuck around here, I still love canoes and I think that there's a real advantage to a small boat that is suited to two passengers: you can easily take your wife or your kid and involve them. I know tandem kayaks exist but canoes are just simple, two-person boats that work really well. I wish I had better pictures of mine but I have it up at my cabin where it's not getting a lot of use on account of the rugged shores. Now that I live in a house on the big island, coincidentally quite close to Lake Cowichan, I'm bringing it back here.

Anyway here's a couple of pictures from when we were taking it up there:

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The trailer is not what I used to take it around, I had just briefly set it there while my other boat was in the water and found it funny.

I hope you all thought I built it but no, it was a gift to Erin (who is also kind of passionate about canoes and also grew up canoeing from a cabin on a lake) from her father, who did build it. He offered at one point to sell it and give her the money instead, a practical proposition which we both thought was insane. It's a real work of art. I'll get better pictures next weekend if anyone's interested.

[LittleLebowski]

There are some really gorgeous canoes in this thread, do like.

[peterb]

Thanks for tagging me - I hadn't noticed this thread but I do love canoes (and kayaks). I find kayaks better suited to the ocean here but canoes I love for lakes, which we also have of course.

I've enjoyed sea kayaks and whitewater kayaks in the appropriate settings, but on flat water there's something elegant about being able to make a boat dance with a single blade.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GrFLHbTzRnc

[OlongJohnson]

Those little moments that remind us who we are. I'm loving this discussion of canoes and sleek row boats, and YouTube also shows me links to this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OCRv1kM9YLc

Life is so good.

[peterb]

If anyone's tempted by the wooden boats, here are a few more kitbuilder links to get you started...

https://www.pygmyboats.com/
http://www.newfound.com/
https://www.guillemot-kayaks.com/
http://www.clcboats.com/
https://www.redfishkayak.com/
https://www.bearmountainboats.com/
https://www.grainsurfboards.com/

And there are many more....

Both the strip-built and stitch & glue(plywood) boats are usually covered with glass cloth and epoxy, so you can think of them as wood-cored composite construction. They're lighter than most people think, especially the stitch & glue kayaks, which are much lighter than plastic equivalents. Very stiff, very strong for distributed loads, but not great for point impacts. You can improve that by adding more layers of glass if you're ok with the extra weight.

Rowing: A lot of folks have a negative impression of rowing because the usual rental "rowboat" is an aluminum skiff designed for planing with an outboard motor. They don't row well. A boat that was designed to be rowed is a whole different experience.

[Maple Syrup Actual]

If anyone's tempted by the wooden boats, here are a few more kitbuilder links to get you started...

https://www.pygmyboats.com/
http://www.newfound.com/
https://www.guillemot-kayaks.com/
http://www.clcboats.com/
https://www.redfishkayak.com/
https://www.bearmountainboats.com/
https://www.grainsurfboards.com/

And there are many more....

Both the strip-built and stitch & glue(plywood) boats are usually covered with glass cloth and epoxy, so you can think of them as wood-cored composite construction. They're lighter than most people think, especially the stitch & glue kayaks, which are much lighter than plastic equivalents. Very stiff, very strong for distributed loads, but not great for point impacts. You can improve that by adding more layers of glass if you're ok with the extra weight.

Rowing: A lot of folks have a negative impression of rowing because the usual rental "rowboat" is an aluminum skiff designed for planing with an outboard motor. They don't row well. A boat that was designed to be rowed is a whole different experience.

So true. One of the other families on my cabin island are the Angus family, Colin and Julie. They usually row over and if you know them, it's not surprising. His rowboats are un-freaking-real. IIRC he won the under 20' class in one on the Race to Alaska.

My dinghy-tender is wood-cored composite and fairly light, but that cedar strip is INCREDIBLY light. It's a good build method.

[Joe in PNG]

When I was on the ocean, I was planning a version of the PNG style dugout single outrigger canoe. I wasn't quite sure if I wanted to go with plywood stitch construction, or a ceder 3 plank style carved to shape. Then I moved up here to the mountains, rendering the whole thing moot.

Another friend of mine took the Hawaiian boat building book, and built a nice outrigger sailing trimaran, and actually sailed it from Siador to Madang.

[UNK]

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Was sent this recently

https://www.usfitwear.com/ss-elite-canoe-sun-dolphin-sundolphin-scout-q26yt43b

[mtnbkr]

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Was sent this recently

https://www.usfitwear.com/ss-elite-canoe-sun-dolphin-sundolphin-scout-q26yt43b

www.usfitwear.com appears to be a scam site. Also, you cannot find canoes there via their online store listings or internal search, which is a common element of similar scam sites. They also are charging less than $5 for shipping a freaking canoe.

Chris

[UNK]

www.usfitwear.com appears to be a scam site. Also, you cannot find canoes there via their online store listings or internal search, which is a common element of similar scam sites. They also are charging less than $5 for shipping a freaking canoe.

Chris

Thank you! I will pass that along to the person who sent it to me
Also notified the manufacture

[OlongJohnson]

I hate this thread right now. Has revived a very old want, and now I'm OCDing about stuff that hasn't taken significant time and attention for decades.

[Welder]

If it makes you feel better, I haven't done a darn thing yet on a canoe. But I will. Soon.

[Jim Watson]

My then girlfriend aka The Woman Who Tried To Drown Me was a dedicated open boater. "Rafts are for tourists and kayakers are crazy."
She paddled a Royalex OCA.

[OlongJohnson]

I think this is the thing I will be working to keep myself talked out of.

54099 (http://merrywherry.com/mtwo.html)

Lighter than the one I posted earlier, cheaper, faster to build, faster to row, more capable in rougher water due to more freeboard, and some other reasons having to do with old memories. Since I'm 6'4" and 215 lbs, I'd get the two-man (in the pic) and set it up as a single. A crazy dude customized one and rowed from Scotland to Iceland a few years ago. (https://www.facebook.com/WaylandMarine/photos/a.110582329005573/110582365672236/?type=3&theater) I'm nothing like that crazy, so it should be able to handle anything I'd do.

[Welder]

I saw an ad on CL in WV for a Grumman Eagle 17. For reasons, I decided I wanted an aluminum canoe, and this particular one is supposed to be about the top of the line for Grumman. The guy called me back at 9 tonight (a few hours ago) saying he'd sell it, and like an idiot, I told him sure I'd be there at 8, never mind that it's 2-3 hours away and that my work truck isn't set up to haul a canoe. So I got off that phone call, ate supper, took an hour long phone call, then welded up a rear canoe rack out of scrap that fits in the 2" hitch receiver and gets the canoe level with the headboard of my truck. Lashed it down so it couldn't sway side to side with the slop in the hitch, lashed it forward, then lashed a toolbox onto the flatbed to carry various straps and such. Put my GPS in the truck and the $375 he's asking, and it's 2 a.m. and I'm headed to bed for about 3 hours' sleep before I head north.

Yesterday was my last day without a canoe unless something goes really wrong. :)

[Grey]

I saw an ad on CL in WV for a Grumman Eagle 17. For reasons, I decided I wanted an aluminum canoe, and this particular one is supposed to be about the top of the line for Grumman. The guy called me back at 9 tonight (a few hours ago) saying he'd sell it, and like an idiot, I told him sure I'd be there at 8, never mind that it's 2-3 hours away and that my work truck isn't set up to haul a canoe. So I got off that phone call, ate supper, took an hour long phone call, then welded up a rear canoe rack out of scrap that fits in the 2" hitch receiver and gets the canoe level with the headboard of my truck. Lashed it down so it couldn't sway side to side with the slop in the hitch, lashed it forward, then lashed a toolbox onto the flatbed to carry various straps and such. Put my GPS in the truck and the $375 he's asking, and it's 2 a.m. and I'm headed to bed for about 3 hours' sleep before I head north.

Yesterday was my last day without a canoe unless something goes really wrong. :)

Was coming back in here to see if you ever got a canoe! Safe travels and please post pics when you are back home, safe, and rested.

[Welder]

Yep, yep, yep!!!! Canoe owner here now. It's my first and only watercraft. It came with 2 mismatched old single-ended paddles. It has one dent just ahead of the stern but is otherwise pristine. The owner also sold me on a set of Spring Creek outrigger / sponson / pontoons that can be used if you've got unruly kids etc in the boat and you want to keep it sunny-side-up. Also he threw in a Bass Pro motor mount. And I forgot (#^&*!!!!) to pick up the big fishing seats that he had for it, but he says he'll bring them next time he comes my way.

It transported just fine on my early-morning-built rack with no movement, but I need to adjust the angle of the crossbar as well as cut down the vertical section and reweld it so that the canoe doesn't touch the roof of the truck. (Some idiot forgot that the canoe has a sloping line along the gunwales, lowest in the middle and highest at the ends, while he was bright-idea-ing the concept of a rear rack section that was equal heights with the headboard.)

Also need to make my rack mechanical-attach-only and eliminate having 3 straps holding it from flopping around in that loose 2" receiver. I think some properly placed support arms and pins will make it solid and yet still quick-releasable. Then weld a few convenient D-rings hear and there and voila! A super fast and stable transport system. I just realized I talked more about the rack than the canoe....I guess that's the welder in me, sorry :p

So I think I'm going to head down to Dick's Sporting Goods and pick up some paddles (or are they oars?) for the canoe and some life jackets. Do I want double-ended kayak-style paddles? Sometimes I'm going to be paddling this by myself and sometimes I'll probably be paddling with someone of less strength. Just wondering if having a single-ended paddle is going to make me have to switch back and forth all the time if I don't go double-ended. I'm sure it's an idiot question, but it's already been established that I'm an idiot....

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[MickAK]

Yep, yep, yep!!!! Canoe owner here now. It's my first and only watercraft. It came with 2 mismatched old single-ended paddles. It has one dent just ahead of the stern but is otherwise pristine. The owner also sold me on a set of Spring Creek outrigger / sponson / pontoons that can be used if you've got unruly kids etc in the boat and you want to keep it sunny-side-up. Also he threw in a Bass Pro motor mount. And I forgot (#^&*!!!!) to pick up the big fishing seats that he had for it, but he says he'll bring them next time he comes my way.

It transported just fine on my early-morning-built rack with no movement, but I need to adjust the angle of the crossbar as well as cut down the vertical section and reweld it so that the canoe doesn't touch the roof of the truck. (Some idiot forgot that the canoe has a sloping line along the gunwales, lowest in the middle and highest at the ends, while he was bright-idea-ing the concept of a rear rack section that was equal heights with the headboard.)

Also need to make my rack mechanical-attach-only and eliminate having 3 straps holding it from flopping around in that loose 2" receiver. I think some properly placed support arms and pins will make it solid and yet still quick-releasable. Then weld a few convenient D-rings hear and there and voila! A super fast and stable transport system. I just realized I talked more about the rack than the canoe....I guess that's the welder in me, sorry :p

So I think I'm going to head down to Dick's Sporting Goods and pick up some paddles (or are they oars?) for the canoe and some life jackets. Do I want double-ended kayak-style paddles? Sometimes I'm going to be paddling this by myself and sometimes I'll probably be paddling with someone of less strength. Just wondering if having a single-ended paddle is going to make me have to switch back and forth all the time if I don't go double-ended. I'm sure it's an idiot question, but it's already been established that I'm an idiot....

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You don't want a kayak paddle. In a canoe by yourself or with a weak front paddler, you do something called a 'J-stroke' where you push water away to the side at the end of your stroke. This keeps you from having to switch sides. It's a little awkward at first but smooth once you get the hang of it.

[DDTSGM]

doubled?

[DDTSGM]

We didn't sing it this nicely when we were in Scouts, but you need to learn this:

https://youtu.be/4edvKCHmFP4

[OlongJohnson]

You don't want a kayak paddle. In a canoe by yourself or with a weak front paddler, you do something called a 'J-stroke' where you push water away to the side at the end of your stroke. This keeps you from having to switch sides. It's a little awkward at first but smooth once you get the hang of it.

You can go either way. It's not at all uncommon for solo canoeists, especially in smaller boats, to use a double-ended paddle. But it's worth learning the J stroke for situations where a double-ender would be unwieldy, and to compensate for weaker help in the front, etc.

Oars are used with oarlocks.

As long as there are no safety concerns (temperature, everyone being able to swim, etc.), kids getting dunked can be a harmless form of "educational beat down" in which they learn to take physics and environments more interesting than the couch a little more seriously.