WA governor just extended stay at home through end of May.

[Totem Polar]

Imma gonna go nuts.

Somewhere, back in that forever-long C19 thread, I noted that we would be seeing a shift away from "we need to stay at home to avoid overwhelming our hospitals" (a good thing) to "we need to stay at home until a vaccine is developed so nobody, anywhere gets sick." (Perhaps not as good, IMHO.) Opinions can and probably will vary on the prudence of the current tack, but it’s clear that the narrative has changed—regardless of how one feels about it.

Mrs Sidhe and I had a chance to chat directly with our ID guy here on Wednesday evening, so I can report directly that, as of a couple of days ago, there is literally no wait time whatsoever in our ERs and urgent care places, and 14 people hospitalized for C19. We clearly have surplus capacity at the moment in my region.

This is in no way meant to minimize the C19 issues faced elsewhere. I’m just reiterating that different regions have differing challenges around this pandemic. I already know—directly—of two *extremely* popular local restaurants that won’t be coming back after the initial shutdown. There are a bunch of layers to this onion, and I’m a bit concerned that the east side is, yet again, only seeing Seattle’s layers.

I dunno. Maybe I don’t understand the problem. I do know that our hospitals are empty. We’ve got a *pile* of available beds. Data point of one city, sure, but that’s the way it is, as of 2 days ago. And we are looking at another 7 weeks of this, minimum, before we even get to an allowed 50% capacity re-opening for our area service industries.

Imma gonna go nuts.

[Duelist]

Sorry, man. Closing local non-chain businesses permanently is one of my main worries about all this. On top of guys like you and my cousin who maybe starve for not being able to go out and perform.

[Casual Friday]

It will be a miracle if the gym my family attends for BJJ and Muay Thai survives. His rent and insurance is quite high which has never been an issue when people were paying tuition. There are a couple restaurants and other small businesses that will not be returning either, and probably many more that I'm not privy to.

I would not be surprised if Inslee were to extend it further.

[MickAK]

I would look at legal options for challenges. There is a middle ground between calling the virus a hoax and blindly giving the government a blank check to restrict free movement based on medical professionals that by definition will look to the worst possible outcome. Think of it as good practice for the next, potentially more serious epidemic.

[RevolverRob]

It's frustrating, but the numbers are just now starting to level off in most places. Suggesting we're at best 15-days away from having relatively safe interactions and realistically 30-days from having a safe level of full blown shelter-in-place orders reduced.

I know no one wants to read RevolverRob's "I told you so" - So, I'm gonna phrase it this way - from the outset of inducing social distancing measures, it was very clear the initial blast would be 90-days of extensive social distancing. Followed by ~45-60 days of orders lifted. Followed by another 90-days of restrictions. Because of the lag time of the virus each leveling off of infection rate needs 15-days to evaluate if it is a true leveling of the climb.

Trump declared a state of emergency not even 60-days ago. If we get out of quarantine for June 1, we'll be doing slightly better than we thought.

Bear in mind, eventually the infection rates will reclimb.

And I know this can be really frustrating when on a local level things seem "controlled". But the reality is...it isn't just about a single locality or region. As soon as the governor looses Portland - what's the first thing that is going to happen? Those people are going to flood out into the city and out of it and traffic will increase every where, particularly with summer approaching. All of the sudden local regions can become infection hotspots faster than someone can blink, because where the virus was present in high abundance it has now be transported to areas of low abundance.

Leveling the curves off in the major areas benefits the less populous areas even if it seems like it doesn't. Because when the big cities empty, and they will, chances are reduced of them bringing it to your doorstep.

We're in probably the most difficult part of this process...we've done the work of adapting our culture substantially, but we haven't get reached the "benefits" stage of it. Worse when we're all back in quarantine in August or September...we'll have to do it all over again.

[Joe in PNG]

The problem is that it is more about "Muh Authoritah!" for some people.

It's a representative republic democratically elected- the elected public servants would do well to remember that, and treat their fellow citizens with that in mind.

The high handed assumption that being in office makes one a Prince of Noble Blood, or a Commissar really needs to go away.

Yes, the general deplorable public will make stupid errors and act on them- but that's freedom for you. The people will cooperate if they see that it is to their own interest, but they are not patient. If the petty tyrants in office try to push this too far, it will not be a pretty end.

[AKDoug]

Imma gonna go nuts.

Somewhere, back in that forever-long C19 thread, I noted that we would be seeing a shift away from "we need to stay at home to avoid overwhelming our hospitals" (a good thing) to "we need to stay at home until a vaccine is developed so nobody, anywhere gets sick." (Perhaps not as good, IMHO.) Opinions can and probably will vary on the prudence of the current tack, but it’s clear that the narrative has changed—regardless of how one feels about it.

Mrs Sidhe and I had a chance to chat directly with our ID guy here on Wednesday evening, so I can report directly that, as of a couple of days ago, there is literally no wait time whatsoever in our ERs and urgent care places, and 14 people hospitalized for C19. We clearly have surplus capacity at the moment in my region.

This is in no way meant to minimize the C19 issues faced elsewhere. I’m just reiterating that different regions have differing challenges around this pandemic. I already know—directly—of two *extremely* popular local restaurants that won’t be coming back after the initial shutdown. There are a bunch of layers to this onion, and I’m a bit concerned that the east side is, yet again, only seeing Seattle’s layers.

I dunno. Maybe I don’t understand the problem. I do know that our hospitals are empty. We’ve got a *pile* of available beds. Data point of one city, sure, but that’s the way it is, as of 2 days ago. And we are looking at another 7 weeks of this, minimum, before we even get to an allowed 50% capacity re-opening for our area service industries.

Imma gonna go nuts. My dad just flew down to his house in East Wenatchee. He's 75 and there's no telling him what to do. I drove him to the airport this morning (a two hour drive). He wasn't very talkative, but one point he did make was that he figured he only had another decade on this planet left and he wasn't about to spend 10% of it sitting in the house. He's planning on golfing on the 5th. My mom stayed home, and he'll have two quarantine in Alaska for 14 days when he gets back in two weeks. As soon as that's done they're going to fly back down and drive their spare car back to Alaska.

[idahojess]

Here is an example of the nonsense that's going on in Washington State (because I think people who don't live here are not aware):

I'm sure most carwashes in the state are open, but this business, Brown Bear Car Wash, had the respect/foolishness to ask the State if they could be open, because the list of essential services allowed to occur is pretty damn vague. The answer: nope, you're not essential.



Brown Bear Car Wash is currently shut down due to the stay-at-home order in place across Washington state. You can grab a coffee, stop by a pot store to pick up weed, and get a burger on your way home, but you can’t wash your car in a drive-thru.

“We’ve contacted Inslee’s office directly, been in contact with his special assistant, and the response has been dismissive,” said Lance Odermat, vice president of Brown Bear, on the Dori Monson Show. “They don’t want to hear the reasoning or logic, and we have been told that we are to remain closed under no uncertain terms.”



https://mynorthwest.com/1847157/brown-bear-car-wash-drive-thru-closed/

Many of the restrictions on businesses in this state don't have any relationship to social distancing, limiting gatherings or protective measures (which I'm not disagreeing with). The essential/non essential list of businesses is just picking arbitrary winners and losers, and I have a feeling it's politically driven. But it may just be pure incompetence combined with layers of risk-averse, elitist technocrats.

The number of conflicting proclamations, and subsequent "interpretations" of proclamations, is creating something that starts to look like decrees from a Regent.

For example, read this gem, from this week, which "clarifies" which construction is allowed, in case you were foolish enough to think you could undertake any construction, as long as you followed safety rules and had hand washing available: https://www.governor.wa.gov/news-media/inslee-issues-additional-guidance-construction-activities

Inslee actually has the audacity to say he's working on a plan to allow drive-in church services by mid-May. What the heck is there to plan? You actually have to jump through hoops just to buy a new car in this state, by showing that you work in a "essential service" and don't have a car. Imagine being a car dealer.

https://www.kiro7.com/news/local/car-dealers-ask-inslee-ease-shutdown-rules/PT6YMUTKJFDA3BFKSAGO3N6EF4/

But maybe, just maybe, by mid-May such risky behaviors will be allowed.


By mid-May, Inslee said, he expects the state will have protocols to allow retail shops to offer curbside pickup, along with auto sales and car washes – all with some restrictions. The state also will allow “drive-in spiritual services” with one household per vehicle.

https://www.spokesman.com/stories/2020/may/01/plan-for-relaxing-stay-home-order-business-closure/

Fortunately, on May 5, we will allowed to golf (I don't), fish, and hunt, because, no shit, we were forbidden from those high risk activities since March.

We best not complain.

[TheNewbie]

Much of the country has given in to hysteria. The virus is a real threat, but so is the response.

I feel terrible for both the victims of the virus and the victims of the response.

[Stephanie B]

Sorry, man. Closing local non-chain businesses permanently is one of my main worries about all this. On top of guys like you and my cousin who maybe starve for not being able to go out and perform.

I also worry about the chains, where the franchisors may look on this as an opportunity to get rid of a bunch of franchisees.

[Duelist]

I also worry about the chains, where the franchisors may look on this as an opportunity to get rid of a bunch of franchisees.

That, too. And the people who work there: most of my kids work for service industry businesses, and while some of them are working all the time now, others aren’t at all. More of them contribute to supporting their families than I thought in this town, too.

[YVK]

Is there any explanation to that? Here we have daily briefings of the state epidemiologist, often times joined by the governor. There is some transparency to the decision making.
There are number of states that extended through May and some of those decisions seem legit, but WA doesn't seem to be needing that any longer. Sorry that this is happening.

[Borderland]

I just read the new WA restrictions.

We've had a lock down for 5 weeks. So far I've tried to follow the rules and stay home. Another month of lock down isn't going to be easy. I may have to break a few rules and hit the range. Probably won't be many people there as money for ammo will become a non-essential purchase even if you could find it.

Looking at this from an economic perspective WA is in bad shape. I know a person who owns rental property in Bellingham. He fully expects to have to file bankruptcy this year. People aren't paying their rent because legally they don't have to now. That will probably stay in place until all businesses are allowed to open again, which may be several more months. But a lot of those businesses won't reopen so unemployment will remain high. Then there's Boeing which expects to RIF about 7K in the area.

WA was one of the first states to lock down. We almost have the virus under control with a 2% case increase. We're actually doing very well when compared to some other states. So I'm thinking about the economic devastation locally and what that means for the rest of the country. 15-20% unemployment is a pretty grim picture. More federal bailouts will be needed. If people don't get those it could get ugly.

[OlongJohnson]

My company is following TX guidance and going back to work, following all distancing, etc. requirements next week. Most of us are information workers, so we've kept the work going from home during the lockdown.

I'm starting to be very worried about the 3-12 month timeframe, and the following years. This is a big shaking of the world system, and I can imagine a reset politically and economically on the order of things that happened in the first half of the 20th century.

[Kyle Reese]

The problem is that it is more about "Muh Authoritah!" for some people.

It's a representative republic democratically elected- the elected public servants would do well to remember that, and treat their fellow citizens with that in mind.

The high handed assumption that being in office makes one a Prince of Noble Blood, or a Commissar really needs to go away.

Yes, the general deplorable public will make stupid errors and act on them- but that's freedom for you. The people will cooperate if they see that it is to their own interest, but they are not patient. If the petty tyrants in office try to push this too far, it will not be a pretty end.

It seems to many members of the public that some of the lockdown/quarantine extensions are purely punitive in nature (Michigan). Whether or not that’s grounded in fact doesn’t matter- you know what they say about perception.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Suvorov]

Same in Kalifornia. Seems the cabal of leftist coastal governors are in lock step. Mass protests have seemed to get Newsom to soften his previous estimates. Otherwise this has all been hashed out in other threads. To date I have lost one friend to COVID and 3 coworkers to suicide. Despite Revolver's siting a deluge of studies - I still maintain the cure will kill more than the disease.

[Totem Polar]

For anyone following this thread who doesn't live on the west coast, let me add a few points to the mill grist. As mentioned, Inslee is locking down for another month and, yes, we were one of the early lock down states. Where I am located isn't exactly the sticks; Spokane/Spokane valley is the second largest city in the state, ahead of Tacoma, Bellingham, et al.

The mayor of Spokane, the county commissioners, and members of our health board have all asked Inslee to let us open at an independent pace from the west side--again, based on the fact that our hospitals are empty, and our total documented cases relatively low. Today's paper has two stories of note: one, the hospitals did a release encouraging people to come in for care. They are clearly hurting for business. And, two, right across the border in Coeur d'Alene, shops are opening back up, and setting retail records.

https://www.spokesman.com/stories/2020/may/01/health-care-providers-emphasize-hospitals-are-safe/

Health and hospital officials encouraged Spokane County residents to seek medical care for emergencies with local hospitals reporting lower than normal census numbers in emergency departments.

“Anecdotally we’ve noted there has been a decrease in people showing up in a timely fashion with symptoms of heart attacks and strokes, so 911 is essential, every minute counts,” Spokane County Health Officer Dr. Bob Lutz said Friday.

Providence and MultiCare officials assured residents that they have implemented safety measures and protocols to keep patients safe. Patients with respiratory symptoms are routed to separate waiting areas and parts of the hospitals, and there are only 10 people receiving treatment for COVID-19 in local hospitals currently.

https://www.spokesman.com/stories/2020/may/02/idaho-retailers-reopen-doors-friday-as-states-four/

Mix It Up, a home decor and gift shop located in downtown Coeur d’Alene, opened its doors to customers for the first time in more than a month Friday, and there was apparently some pent-up demand for its offerings.

“We are on par to set a sales record for the 1st of May in any given year,” shop owner Beth Rich Brown said.

Brown’s store is one of the many nonessential retail businesses permitted to reopen under Gov. Brad Little’s “Idaho Rebounds” plan.

Little announced last week his plan to gradually reopen the state’s economy after its coronavirus-caused closure. The plan’s first stage – which started Friday and will last for two weeks – permits retail stores, places of worship and youth day cares and camps to reopen to the public.

“Our stage one ‘stay-healthy’ order replaces the statewide ‘stay-home’ order,” Little said in his press conference.


I do not believe in either/or camps, as in: "if you are wanting to ease restrictions, then you are selfish and don't care about killing grandma."

My dad--who I am very close to--is 83 and has underlying health issues. I feel that it's entirely human to be both very concerned for him, and still remained concerned for the literally *dozens* of small-business entrepreneurs, artists, therapists, performing artists, restaurant owners, and others I am on a first name-socializing basis with who are watching an adult lifetime's worth of work circle the drain. This is a complex situation, and not every solution is a one-size-fits-all panacea.

I think a real case can be made--and hardly for the first time--that the second largest city under Inslee's purview has more in common with neighboring Couer d'Alene than across-the-mountains Seattle/Tacoma.

[Suvorov]

My dad--who I am very close to--is 83 and has underlying health issues. I feel that it's entirely human to be both very concerned for him, and still remained concerned for the literally *dozens* of small-business entrepreneurs, artists, therapists, performing artists, restaurant owners, and others I am on a first name-socializing basis with who are watching an adult lifetime's worth of work circle the drain. This is a complex situation, and not every solution is a one-size-fits-all panacea.

I think a real case can be made--and hardly for the first time--that the second largest city under Inslee's purview has more in common with neighboring Couer d'Alene than across-the-mountains Seattle/Tacoma.

This is the very thing that infuriates me the most when dealing with the "Stay Home Save Lives" people. The solution is NOT binary and it can be possible, and NEEDS to be possible to both safeguard the at risk people as well as the at risk businesses. I do find those who collect their paycheck from the government or around here, the tech industry are far more willing to chant the mantra because (at least subconsciously) they feel they are not at risk of loosing their livelihood.

[Joe in PNG]

We also know that a sedentary lifestyle is really really bad for people physically. We know that prolonged boredom and isolation are also mentally bad for people, which leads to physical problems.

Likewise, people are easily inured to potential dangers. Eventually, they will lose their fear of a threat, no matter how serious it is.

The People's patience is not infinite.

[Totem Polar]

Likewise, people are easily inured to potential dangers. Eventually, they will lose their fear of a threat, no matter how serious it is.

This is a very good point, and one that I had not really considered until another respected forumite just pointed it out to me elsewhere. In addition to balancing the virus waves in "hammer/dance" fashion, the powers that be had better be considering the human factor too. Obviously, enough people getting cabin fever and saying "fuck it," in wholesale fashion could be disastrous, and unravel months of sacrifice.

As an aside, my 83 year old dad has a membership at an outdoor range that will remain nameless (but it’s in rural Idaho). In talking to my dad yesterday, I come to find out that the range in question never closed. They even kept on with weekend matches, the whole ball of wax.

Truth: you get far enough out from our cities, and most simply don’t give a shit what the urban elites say. I mean, duh, but still a compelling reminder. The attitude in many rural areas is "That virus thing is a city slicker problem." Endearing, until someone’s niece or nephew shows up for a weekend getaway and brings a hitchhiker. Then all those CASS guys get to trade their wild west re-enactments for a "blankets and diseases" stage, I guess.

At any rate, people are complex, and a pandemic is the very definition of a "people problem."

[Kyle Reese]

This is the very thing that infuriates me the most when dealing with the "Stay Home Save Lives" people. The solution is NOT binary and it can be possible, and NEEDS to be possible to both safeguard the at risk people as well as the at risk businesses. I do find those who collect their paycheck from the government or around here, the tech industry are far more willing to chant the mantra because (at least subconsciously) they feel they are not at risk of loosing their livelihood.

That’s been my experience here. The biggest proponents of !!STAY HOME!!!!! are drawing some sort of government paycheck.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Unisaw]

“People aren't paying their rent because legally they don't have to now. That will probably stay in place until all businesses are allowed to open again, which may be several more months.”

IANAL, but what right does the state have to allow one party to a contract to not fulfill the terms of that contract? Isn’t it up to the contracting parties to figure out a path forward? Just asking...

[AKDoug]

That’s been my experience here. The biggest proponents of !!STAY HOME!!!!! are drawing some sort of government paycheck.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk I get a couple emails a day questioning my business's Covid safety standards. I am polite in my response, send them a .pdf of our state approved safety plan, and move on. This is a small town and I know the author of every one of these emails. 100% of them are staying at home and collecting a pay check.

[Totem Polar]

This has nothing to do with the conversation, but since all the WA people are passing through, what the hell.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/technology/tracking-the-asian-giant-murder-hornet-as-it-reaches-north-america/ar-BB13va3Q?ocid=spartandhp#image=BB13va3Q_1|1

In Japan, the hornets kill up to 50 people a year. Now, for the first time, they have arrived in the United States.

Mr. McFall still is not certain that Asian giant hornets were responsible for the plunder of his hive. But two of the predatory insects were discovered last fall in the northwest corner of Washington State, a few miles north of his property — the first sightings in the United States.

You’re welcome. Dust off the kid’s .410, and have a nice day.

:)



https://cdn.images.express.co.uk/img/dynamic/59/590x/156720700-379227.jpg

[willie]

Closely following pandemic events has convinced me that many have detached themselves from economic realities. Some fail to see that business owners face ruin and have almost no comprehension of its significance. These individual are not aware that municipalities will go broke and so-called services that they demand will lessen. My opinion is that we already are in a recession and are sliding along in a hand basket toward a world wide depression. And where will the money come from to provide relief? From borrowing which will increase debt and inflation at the same time. So what's the solution? There is not one. We will follow prescribed but untested protocols, plans, and policies. The Virus will continue to infect. Eventually those who were compliant, if they have not died, will disobey. We will live our lives differently and wake up in a different world with a new order. Law enforcement persons and other responders may say screw it because those that lived became tired and lost faith in the system. Even the ghost in the machine will go back to his grave.

[Cookie Monster]

In rural eastern Washington I definitely see things being quieter but not in “lockdown”. It is definitely much easier being able to telework and having a standard paycheck coming in.

Another month is going to be tough and it seems we’ll be a levels of social distancing for years. Hard to wrap the mind around what the consequences will be.

As we work on getting crews on and looking at working in the woods, the supplies of cleaning supplies and hand sanitizer and all those things are just stripped out. I got stuff incoming but I don’t know if they will come in time.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

I saw a nature show that some bees figured out a defense against the hornets. They don't try to sting them but swarm them and that overheats the hornet so it drops dead. I can't remember what area had those bees though.

From Asia we get plagues, giant insects - what's next? Gojira!!!

[Duelist]

This has nothing to do with the conversation, but since all the WA people are passing through, what the hell.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/technology/tracking-the-asian-giant-murder-hornet-as-it-reaches-north-america/ar-BB13va3Q?ocid=spartandhp#image=BB13va3Q_1|1

In Japan, the hornets kill up to 50 people a year. Now, for the first time, they have arrived in the United States.

Mr. McFall still is not certain that Asian giant hornets were responsible for the plunder of his hive. But two of the predatory insects were discovered last fall in the northwest corner of Washington State, a few miles north of his property — the first sightings in the United States.

You’re welcome. Dust off the kid’s .410, and have a nice day.

:)



https://cdn.images.express.co.uk/img/dynamic/59/590x/156720700-379227.jpg

Eew.

[Ichiban]

This has nothing to do with the conversation, but since all the WA people are passing through, what the hell.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/technology/tracking-the-asian-giant-murder-hornet-as-it-reaches-north-america/ar-BB13va3Q?ocid=spartandhp#image=BB13va3Q_1|1

In Japan, the hornets kill up to 50 people a year. Now, for the first time, they have arrived in the United States.

Mr. McFall still is not certain that Asian giant hornets were responsible for the plunder of his hive. But two of the predatory insects were discovered last fall in the northwest corner of Washington State, a few miles north of his property — the first sightings in the United States.

You’re welcome. Dust off the kid’s .410, and have a nice day.

:)



https://cdn.images.express.co.uk/img/dynamic/59/590x/156720700-379227.jpg

Not the only time dangerous insects have invaded.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=APUWOoUqQho

[Joe in PNG]

I saw a nature show that some bees figured out a defense against the hornets. They don't try to sting them but swarm them and that overheats the hornet so it drops dead. I can't remember what area had those bees though.

From Asia we get plagues, giant insects - what's next? Gojira!!!

From the Oatmeal: How little bees take on enormous hornets (https://theoatmeal.com/comics/bees_vs_hornets)

[BehindBlueI's]

IANAL, but what right does the state have to allow one party to a contract to not fulfill the terms of that contract? Isn’t it up to the contracting parties to figure out a path forward? Just asking...

The state doesn't necessarily need to override contracts, but they can postpone and/or prioritize taking enforcement action. The state runs the court system and the courts and sheriffs (or constables, depending on your locale) are the legal process for eviction. As a landlord I can't legally just go in and start chucking your shit in the street because you haven't paid the rent. I have to go through the eviction process. Which is one of a multitude of reasons I do not recommend being a landlord.

[BehindBlueI's]

It seems to many members of the public that some of the lockdown/quarantine extensions are purely punitive in nature (Michigan). Whether or not that’s grounded in fact doesn’t matter- you know what they say about perception.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The messaging from multiple levels of government and the private sector have been confusing, contradicting, and rapidly evolving. I understand that new information comes to light and changes things. However this has been a clusterfuck of PR management and it's harder for people to take it seriously because the messaging has been so shitty.

We're being extended by two weeks but most of the state is starting to go back to normal. But I can't camp overnight in a state park. I can take certain trails but not others. I can park in some parks, but not others, but I can park nearby and walk into any of them. Note this isn't cheating the system, this is the exact instructions from city leadership. I understand that this will make it more inconvenient so usage will go down in high usage parks, but they don't say that and don't give a reason, so it looks capricious. I can't understand why you can't camp at night, though, if you can have a group smaller then 10 in the day time. No explanation for that. No explanation of why I can use easy use trails but not rugged trails, which seems counter-intuitive since easy use trails will have more people...

[Totem Polar]

From the Oatmeal: How little bees take on enormous hornets (https://theoatmeal.com/comics/bees_vs_hornets)

OT, but that Inman/Oatmeal guy is from Coeur d’Alene, so apropos in more ways than one.

[Kyle Reese]

The messaging from multiple levels of government and the private sector have been confusing, contradicting, and rapidly evolving. I understand that new information comes to light and changes things. However this has been a clusterfuck of PR management and it's harder for people to take it seriously because the messaging has been so shitty.

We're being extended by two weeks but most of the state is starting to go back to normal. But I can't camp overnight in a state park. I can take certain trails but not others. I can park in some parks, but not others, but I can park nearby and walk into any of them. Note this isn't cheating the system, this is the exact instructions from city leadership. I understand that this will make it more inconvenient so usage will go down in high usage parks, but they don't say that and don't give a reason, so it looks capricious. I can't understand why you can't camp at night, though, if you can have a group smaller then 10 in the day time. No explanation for that. No explanation of why I can use easy use trails but not rugged trails, which seems counter-intuitive since easy use trails will have more people...

I think at this point their rationale is simply “because I say so”.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Borderland]

“People aren't paying their rent because legally they don't have to now. That will probably stay in place until all businesses are allowed to open again, which may be several more months.”

IANAL, but what right does the state have to allow one party to a contract to not fulfill the terms of that contract? Isn’t it up to the contracting parties to figure out a path forward? Just asking...

They don't. Those landlords need to get bailed out just like a large corp. They're small business owners and part of the economy. Actually about 50% of the economy. If state gov't is going to take them down then they need to pay up. That's how it should work but I'm not aware of any plan here in WA to subsidize their lose. Some of them may walk away from their mortgages and the lenders will have a shit load of real estate to sell in a market crash. Nothing good can come out of this.

[whomever]

I can't understand why you can't camp at night, though, if you can have a group smaller then 10 in the day time. No explanation for that.

An explanation I heard locally was that they were closing the privies (because people touch the doorknobs etc) and that meant closing the campgrounds (so people aren't leaving piles everywhere), and they only allow camping in the campgrounds, so .... Dunno if that applies to your local situation.

We're lucky enough to have BLM and USFS land. They closed their campgrounds, but you don't have to camp in the campgrounds.

+1 on the poor communications. Remember 'masks don't protect anyone but medicos', which became 'everyone should wear masks'. They should have just started with the latter message and asked companies with mask inventory to sell to FEMA or whoever. Lots of other examples. It's a recipe for people to just stop listening.

[AKDoug]

An explanation I heard locally was that they were closing the privies (because people touch the doorknobs etc) and that meant closing the campgrounds (so people aren't leaving piles everywhere), and they only allow camping in the campgrounds, so .... Dunno if that applies to your local situation.

We're lucky enough to have BLM and USFS land. They closed their campgrounds, but you don't have to camp in the campgrounds.

+1 on the poor communications. Remember 'masks don't protect anyone but medicos', which became 'everyone should wear masks'. They should have just started with the latter message and asked companies with mask inventory to sell to FEMA or whoever. Lots of other examples. It's a recipe for people to just stop listening.
I'm not even a germaphobe and I carry chlorox wipes in my trucks for public outshouses/privies. Those things are nasty. The outhouses were open in all the rest stops in Canada on my trip a couple weeks ago. I left them way cleaner than when I got there.

[Borderland]

The state doesn't necessarily need to override contracts, but they can postpone and/or prioritize taking enforcement action. The state runs the court system and the courts and sheriffs (or constables, depending on your locale) are the legal process for eviction. As a landlord I can't legally just go in and start chucking your shit in the street because you haven't paid the rent. I have to go through the eviction process. Which is one of a multitude of reasons I do not recommend being a landlord.

90 days here. That's a lot of lost income. Add to that the property damage the renter might do after you serve notice. No way to get around that one. I've had a few friends who had rentals. They would advise against it.

[BehindBlueI's]

An explanation I heard locally was that they were closing the privies (because people touch the doorknobs etc) and that meant closing the campgrounds (so people aren't leaving piles everywhere), and they only allow camping in the campgrounds, so .... Dunno if that applies to your local situation.

We're lucky enough to have BLM and USFS land. They closed their campgrounds, but you don't have to camp in the campgrounds.

I only do dispersed camping, and the rules are "no overnighting" despite there are no facilities and no designated campgrounds.

[Borderland]

That’s been my experience here. The biggest proponents of !!STAY HOME!!!!! are drawing some sort of government paycheck.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

If I had just lost 7K of income and about to loose another 7K I would be pissed. Unenjoyment can't even come close to replacing that.

[BehindBlueI's]

I've had a few friends who had rentals. They would advise against it.

I've never met anyone who had a couple rentals that loved it. I know several reluctant landlords who, during the crash, ended up with property they couldn't sell. Flippers became landlords and, in my case, people who had to move to a new city for work became landlords. I ended up hiring a property manager. Worth every bit of the 10% cut until he started being shady, too.

I don't deal with it any more. My dad lost his place in a tornado several years ago and I chucked out the dirtbags in my house and moved him in. When he's gone I'll sell it for whatever it brings as I'm definitely not upside down on it these days. I will have to be pretty damned hungry before I become a landlord again.

[whomever]

I only do dispersed camping, and the rules are "no overnighting" despite there are no facilities and no designated campgrounds.

Yeah ... that makes no sense at all.

[BehindBlueI's]

Yeah ... that makes no sense at all.

State forests:

You can bike on paved roads, but not unpaved trails.
You cannot ride a horse on either.

Archery ranges are open.
Shooting ranges are closed.

You can golf, but no carts.

"High impact and high adventure foot trails, because of their rugged nature, are closed for your safety. " so things like: "Trails 1, 6, 7 & 11 are open. All other trails are closed."


Meanwhile, national forests within the same state:
Can ride horses
Can disperse camp/back-country camp.

So...yeah. I'm not saying there couldn't be some completely sensible reason for these apparent disparities, but I can't see it and it's not being communicated to me.

[whomever]

I'm not even a germaphobe and I carry chlorox wipes in my trucks for public outshouses/privies. Those things are nasty. The outhouses were open in all the rest stops in Canada on my trip a couple weeks ago. I left them way cleaner than when I got there.

That kind of neatly illustrates the problem. I think the original intent was to stop transmission even between the dofusses^H^H^H^H^H^H less risk averse[1] parts or the population.

I'm not sure that's viable long term. The initial reactions seemed to be 'ZOMG! Killer virus! We need to drop the transmission rate to zero!'. And it's hard to criticize the sentiment; it is a killer virus, and no one wants people to die. But realistically the people in the know seem to be saying that a vaccine is 12 to 18 or more months out. There is a limit to how strict of a shutdown we can maintain for that long. For example, ISTM we have to run a normal school year next year - we can't just rob a school year from all the kids to save geezers like me.

So I think we will end up with a two tier world - not a lot of legal restrictions[2], but people sort themselves into the set of people who wipe down the outhouse knobs when they use them, and people who don't. I do kinda hope that more businesses follow Costco's lead and require masks for customers. That seems like a pretty low-pain way to reduce transmission.


[1]I don't really intend to slam the less risk averse there. I'm old enough to be 'high risk', and retired, which makes being very cautious easy. I see the 12 year old neighborhood kids of the 30 something neighbors all playing together. I'm not about to go out and start yelling 'social distance!!!'. They, because of their youth, are at minimal risk. WTF gives me the right to make them hibernate like the better half and I are doing?
[2]it might make sense to not allow e.g. concerts or things like that for a while.

[BehindBlueI's]

I do kinda hope that more businesses follow Costco's lead and require masks for customers. That seems like a pretty low-pain way to reduce transmission.

Do they reduce transmission, though? The messaging has said both. I distinctly remember that masks were useless unless they were the right kind worn the right way. I'm not being snarky, I legitimately have no idea. Are masks just a feel good measure or do they actually reduce risk? Memes about peeing on legs aside, who do listen to?

[whomever]

(list of inane policies)

..., but I can't see it and it's not being communicated to me.

I saw a column somewhere that said something like 'Governors won't decide when to reopen, people will'. My sense is that too few governors/mayors/whatever don't understand that. Their authority ends when people just start to ignore them. A leader really, really, really, needs to communicate the why as well as the what.

[BehindBlueI's]

I saw a column somewhere that said something like 'Governors won't decide when to reopen, people will'. My sense is that too few governors/mayors/whatever don't understand that. Their authority ends when people just start to ignore them. A leader really, really, really, needs to communicate the why as well as the what.

We are starting to see mass non-compliance. We, as a department, are not enforcing any of the measures. The media says we are, but I can assure you the opposite has been communicated to me. State might be.

[whomever]

Do they reduce transmission, though? The messaging has said both. I distinctly remember that masks were useless unless they were the right kind worn the right way. I'm not being snarky, I legitimately have no idea. Are masks just a feel good measure or do they actually reduce risk? Memes about peeing on legs aside, who do listen to?

So ... not an expert, other than spending several hours googling a few weeks ago. And I mean medical journals, not random bloggers.

The results vary[1]. If I were to distill a middle of the road answer:

1)Simple (surgical/bandanna/cloth) masks don't provide a heckuva lot of protection *to you*. Too much air leaks around the edges, etc. They do keep your sneezes from infecting everyone around you. But n.b. these results were all about the flu, which may or may not be a good proxy for covid. But, to the extent they stop Asymptomatic Alice from infecting 6 other people in the days between when she becomes infectious and when she shows symptoms, they are a win for society at large.
2)Better (N95/N100/...) masks can substantially protect you from other people ... IFF[2] you do everything else right ... like not contaminating your fingers futzing with the mask, then touching your cell phone, ...

My sense of the bottom line is that ... everyone wearing masks in public spaces might help, and can't hurt.




[1]For example, you'll have several studies where they gave various kind of masks to nurses in flu wards, or family members of flu patients, and tracked the infection rates of the nurses/family members. Sometimes masks seemed to work well, and sometimes not so well. With, again, the disclaimer that I am out of my lane, I have had some bacteriology labs where doing sterile stuff mattered, and it's really easy to eff up. That one time you itch your eye with a dirty hand negates wearing the mask.
[2]mathematician for 'If and only if'


ETA: On "I distinctly remember that masks were useless unless they were the right kind worn the right way."

So, I'm a hobby welder/machinist/etc, and keep N100 masks around for that ... because N100 >> N95, bigger is better, etc. I think the 'worn the right way' refers to two things:

1)Mask fit: this really does matter. If e.g. your mask is making your glasses fog (a common complaint), I suspect your mask doesn't fit - the gap around your nose that is fogging your glasses on when you exhale is pulling in unfiltered air when you inhale - not good. You fix that by bending the metal nosepiece, tightening the straps, etc. With a properly fitted N100, I can feel the mask crumple inwards a bit when I inhale. In industrial/medical settings they do fit tests where you don the mask and they spray various things, and if you smell the stuff your mask doesn't fit. That's all good, but...
2)My wife and I have never done that; we just followed the directions on the package and are sensitive to the notion that fit matters. And the masks seem to work; if I spend the day welding with no mask, I'm blowing black snot (technical terminology) and with the amateur fitted mask, I don't. Ditto when we have had bad (100 yd visibility) wildfire smoke and my wife wears a mask all day to garden. So while I'm sure an OSHA approved fitting session is good, I'd argue a careful amateur fitting still results in useful filtering.

So my 2 cents is that fit matters, but a conscientious amateur can achieve a fit that offers substantial protection.

This is all talking about N95/N100. Cloth masks are less fit sensitive, I think, because they are about protecting other people from you, not protecting you from other people, and that is simpler - anything that covers your nose and mouth will catch coughs.

There are some intermediate possibilities - here's a couple of links to DIY mask fabrics that may also protect the wearer to some extent:
https://www.armytimes.com/news/your-army/2020/04/24/army-researchers-say-this-is-the-best-material-for-a-homemade-face-mask-theyve-found-so-far/
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/04/200424081648.htm

[Borderland]

We are starting to see mass non-compliance. We, as a department, are not enforcing any of the measures. The media says we are, but I can assure you the opposite has been communicated to me. State might be.

Sheriff (elected) at the county I used to work for said he won't enforce the governors orders. That's a metro county of 800K people. You know where that's going to go. People are just going to ignore the orders and open up again. There won't be any enforcement unless it's state police. I just read about a barber here who has been doing business for a few weeks ever since the sheriff said he wasn't going to enforce the order. People have been lined up to get a haircut.

[OlongJohnson]

State police are too busy lining up to nail people for 63 where I-5 drops down to 55 just south of Tulalip.

[Borderland]

State police are too busy lining up to nail people for 63 where I-5 drops down to 55 just south of Tulalip.

I once drove from WA to VA and back. I can say that WA and VA have more state police on the highways than any state I drove thru, and that was a bunch. The highways are safe in WA and VA.

5 over is good. 10 gets you a fast driving award. Or 8 in some cases. :D

The limit drops down from 70 to 60 at Smokey Point exit now. I think it may be 60 until you get south of Olympia. I don't go down there very often these days.

[AKDoug]

That kind of neatly illustrates the problem. I think the original intent was to stop transmission even between the dofusses^H^H^H^H^H^H less risk averse[1] parts or the population.

I'm not sure that's viable long term. The initial reactions seemed to be 'ZOMG! Killer virus! We need to drop the transmission rate to zero!'. And it's hard to criticize the sentiment; it is a killer virus, and no one wants people to die. But realistically the people in the know seem to be saying that a vaccine is 12 to 18 or more months out. There is a limit to how strict of a shutdown we can maintain for that long. For example, ISTM we have to run a normal school year next year - we can't just rob a school year from all the kids to save geezers like me.

So I think we will end up with a two tier world - not a lot of legal restrictions[2], but people sort themselves into the set of people who wipe down the outhouse knobs when they use them, and people who don't. I do kinda hope that more businesses follow Costco's lead and require masks for customers. That seems like a pretty low-pain way to reduce transmission.


[1]I don't really intend to slam the less risk averse there. I'm old enough to be 'high risk', and retired, which makes being very cautious easy. I see the 12 year old neighborhood kids of the 30 something neighbors all playing together. I'm not about to go out and start yelling 'social distance!!!'. They, because of their youth, are at minimal risk. WTF gives me the right to make them hibernate like the better half and I are doing?
[2]it might make sense to not allow e.g. concerts or things like that for a while.

Thank you for recognizing the truth. Without a vaccine, there really isn't any other choice than letting the disease work its course. As I've noted before in other threads, my parents are in their 70's. They're willing to allow the risk of opening up. My mom said she'd be glad to take one for the team if it meant our business (one she started with my dad) survived and lived on with her grandkids.

[TheNewbie]

Thank you for recognizing the truth. Without a vaccine, there really isn't any other choice than letting the disease work its course. As I've noted before in other threads, my parents are in their 70's. They're willing to allow the risk of opening up. My mom said she'd be glad to take one for the team if it meant our business (one she started with my dad) survived and lived on with her grandkids.


Your parents have more honor and wisdom than most. You should be proud.

[okie john]

I once drove from WA to VA and back. I can say that WA and VA have more state police on the highways than any state I drove thru, and that was a bunch. The highways are safe in WA and VA.

5 over is good. 10 gets you a fast driving award. Or 8 in some cases. :D

The limit drops down from 70 to 60 at Smokey Point exit now. I think it may be 60 until you get south of Olympia. I don't go down there very often these days.

Yes, it's also 60 south of Olympia for a stretch. There are some big hills and turns there that limit sight lines, and pre-COVID that area was pretty congested.


Okie John

[Totem Polar]

As an aside, any creature that has a toxic, clip point Bowie growing out its ass end is most def to be avoided:

https://s3.wp.wsu.edu/uploads/sites/609/2020/04/AGH_Stinger_WSDA_stinger-396x264.jpg

[Caballoflaco]

I saw a nature show that some bees figured out a defense against the hornets. They don't try to sting them but swarm them and that overheats the hornet so it drops dead. I can't remember what area had those bees though.

From Asia we get plagues, giant insects - what's next? Gojira!!!

History shows us again and again how nature points out the folly of man

I think I might have found a candidate I can support in 2020!

[MichaelD]

As an aside, any creature that has a toxic, clip point Bowie growing out its ass end most def needs to be exterminated:

https://s3.wp.wsu.edu/uploads/sites/609/2020/04/AGH_Stinger_WSDA_stinger-396x264.jpg

FIFY.

I have a bunch of family in Washington (my dad was born and raised there) and they all hate what's going on in the state.

[TAZ]

That kind of neatly illustrates the problem. I think the original intent was to stop transmission even between the dofusses^H^H^H^H^H^H less risk averse[1] parts or the population.

I'm not sure that's viable long term. The initial reactions seemed to be 'ZOMG! Killer virus! We need to drop the transmission rate to zero!'. And it's hard to criticize the sentiment; it is a killer virus, and no one wants people to die. But realistically the people in the know seem to be saying that a vaccine is 12 to 18 or more months out. There is a limit to how strict of a shutdown we can maintain for that long. For example, ISTM we have to run a normal school year next year - we can't just rob a school year from all the kids to save geezers like me.

So I think we will end up with a two tier world - not a lot of legal restrictions[2], but people sort themselves into the set of people who wipe down the outhouse knobs when they use them, and people who don't. I do kinda hope that more businesses follow Costco's lead and require masks for customers. That seems like a pretty low-pain way to reduce transmission.


[1]I don't really intend to slam the less risk averse there. I'm old enough to be 'high risk', and retired, which makes being very cautious easy. I see the 12 year old neighborhood kids of the 30 something neighbors all playing together. I'm not about to go out and start yelling 'social distance!!!'. They, because of their youth, are at minimal risk. WTF gives me the right to make them hibernate like the better half and I are doing?
[2]it might make sense to not allow e.g. concerts or things like that for a while.

I'm not sure that the original intent was to stop transmission between anyone. Not truly possible, IMO, with a 2 week asymptomatic yet contagious stage. Flattening of the curve doesn't mean minimizing the area under said curve which is the total # of infected. Social distancing was/is an attempt to slow the infection rate down as much as possible to try and prevent hospitals from being over run and needing to ration critical care. Its as simple as that. Maybe reduce the area under the curve as well, but the idea was to keep that maximum # of simultaneously critical patients below a certain #.

I was supportive of the stay at home social distancing guidelines at the time because just how little we actually knew of the virus and how it came to be, how its mutated... and how it seemed to ravage Italy. Given that type of info, I thought better safe than sorry. Its been 6 weeks or so and we still have no more data??? Either we have more data that shows its like the black plague or we have data similar to NYC and Santa Clara showing that it really isn't.

I wont begrudge anyone who thinks its better to stay at home from doing so. There comes a time where the cure is worse than the disease. Unemployment, recession, public debt which is more likely to kill the USA? A virus with a better than 95% chance of survival or the other stuff????

[OlongJohnson]

FIFY.

I have a bunch of family in Washington (my dad was born and raised there) and they all hate what's going on in the state.

I was born and raised there. There's a way in which it would make a hell of a lot of sense to buy a little place near the walkable downtown of the town I as born and grew up in, which my parents could downsize into, and then eventually I could do the same when I'm old and a walkable, quaint downtown with everything you need would be everything I need.

But that ain't gonna happen now.

[willie]

The messaging from multiple levels of government and the private sector have been confusing, contradicting, and rapidly evolving. I understand that new information comes to light and changes things. However this has been a clusterfuck of PR management and it's harder for people to take it seriously because the messaging has been so shitty.

We're being extended by two weeks but most of the state is starting to go back to normal. But I can't camp overnight in a state park. I can take certain trails but not others. I can park in some parks, but not others, but I can park nearby and walk into any of them. Note this isn't cheating the system, this is the exact instructions from city leadership. I understand that this will make it more inconvenient so usage will go down in high usage parks, but they don't say that and don't give a reason, so it looks capricious. I can't understand why you can't camp at night, though, if you can have a group smaller then 10 in the day time. No explanation for that. No explanation of why I can use easy use trails but not rugged trails, which seems counter-intuitive since easy use trails will have more people...

Such narratives in dangerous times are written by employees who happen to be on a disaster committee who heretofore never took their tasks seriously. Every city, school district, college, and other have these planners. They reach a consensus after not arguing with the chairperson and submit recommendations similar to those cited here. These are the same people who make up courtesy committees that I label hostility committees. Some live lifetimes and have denied reality. Planning for disaster is incongruent with denying it. These folks have never seen a corpse outside of a funeral home. Devising logic based strategies to facilitate enacting physical distancing or for managing the dead may not take place. We see this in the above example.

[Shoresy]

As an aside, any creature that has a toxic, clip point Bowie growing out its ass end is most def to be avoided:

https://s3.wp.wsu.edu/uploads/sites/609/2020/04/AGH_Stinger_WSDA_stinger-396x264.jpg

Which appears to be serrated (on both sides, no less).

I'm taking the last train to Nopesville.

[11B10]

[QUOTE=Sidheshooter;1040978]This has nothing to do with the conversation, but since all the WA people are passing through, what the hell.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/technology/tracking-the-asian-giant-murder-hornet-as-it-reaches-north-america/ar-BB13va3Q?ocid=spartandhp#image=BB13va3Q_1|1

In Japan, the hornets kill up to 50 people a year. Now, for the first time, they have arrived in the United States.

Mr. McFall still is not certain that Asian giant hornets were responsible for the plunder of his hive. But two of the predatory insects were discovered last fall in the northwest corner of Washington State, a few miles north of his property — the first sightings in the United States.

You’re welcome. Dust off the kid’s .410, and have a nice day.

:)




DANGER*****THREAD DRIFT AHEAD!!''****

I've known since I was 4 years old that I was susceptible to an anaphylactic reaction from a sting. So, as a guy who's had to be revived twice via "the big needle," articles like this ^^^ kinda get my attention. Just one question: Are you sure a .410 is up to the task?

[11B10]

Which appears to be serrated (on both sides, no less).

I'm taking the last train to Nopesville.



Weeping, Sidhe - many thanks for the closeups. 😵 And, the desire to go anywhere they ain't!

[Totem Polar]

Are you sure a .410 is up to the task?

You could always go hand-to-wing:

https://jerkingthetrigger.com/2017/07/22/tactical-kydex-flyswatter-pyrenees-tac/

https://www.galcogunleather.com/flyswatter_8_311_1466.html

[Wondering Beard]

You could always go hand-to-wing:

https://jerkingthetrigger.com/2017/07/22/tactical-kydex-flyswatter-pyrenees-tac/

https://www.galcogunleather.com/flyswatter_8_311_1466.html

Or you could use Bug-A-Salt (https://www.bugasalt.com/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIqOia9aWd6QIVgpOzCh3fwQwiEAAYASA AEgIb-_D_BwE)

[11B10]

Sidhe & Wondering - I checked out your links and, with all due respect (?), it is my opinion that the hornet being discussed would probably grab those things you suggested and beat me over the head with them. They're frickin beasts! I'm not dismissing the obvious "tactical advantages" of your proposed solutions. I've been blessed by the fact that this allergy has not affected how much time I spend outdoors, a mental state enjoyed because I'm never without a pair of EpiPens in a modified belt pouch. Why 2? Ask me how I know EpiPens can malfunction...that would be big needle #2, mentioned previously. We've all seen people who cannot bear to even see a yellow jacket and still others who absolutely freak out whenever a buzzing insect crashes their party. They're usually the ones wearing brightly colored clothing, with copious amounts of either cologne, perfume, hair spray or a combination of all of them. The same people who can't figure out why the buggers are always on the food and drinks and "won't leave me alone."

[Borderland]

Anyone grow up around rattlesnakes? Those dudes can pump a shit load of toxins into you in short order. I was an outdoors kid (hunted a lot) and also worked as a surveyor in the SW. I had contact with dozens of those bastards. Several times I was close enough to have been struck. I was lucky enough to have killed the snakes before they nailed me. I ran across a kid in NM who lost two fingers on one hand from a snake bite. They won't kill you if you're hit on a limb but you better get to a hospital within a few hours or there's going to be considerable nerve and tissue damage, maybe amputation. The majority of the country doesn't have to deal with a huge threat from poisonous snakes. Many people have never even seen a poisonous snake in the wild.

These hornets seem to be about the same threat, maybe a little more since you probably won't have any warning when you encounter one. I've taken several people to the hospital after being stung by ground hornets. One guy went into shock. A woman I was working with was stung over 15 times but she had no allergic reaction. That's a serious threat right there.

I truly appreciate warnings about poisonous insects and want to know if they're actually a threat where I live. The reality is people live with lots of dangerous critters. Snakes were a hazard for me growing up and for several years working in AZ. I didn't really get away from it until I moved to WA when I was about 30. It took me years to finally be able to walk thru high grass and brush without looking where I stepped or listening for rattlesnakes. It kind of becomes a defense mechanism of sorts but you can live with it, if you're lucky.:D

[Totem Polar]

Anyone grow up around rattlesnakes?

Eastern WA rural raised boy scout here. Boots for all our camping and hiking: mandatory all-leather, and 8". We all wore the same brand—it was the only thing available locally that fit the bill.

As an aside, 158gr jhp from a 6" GP-100 will do crazy things to a snake if you can get the hit. Not related to scouting, btw. ;)

[Borderland]

Eastern WA rural raised boy scout here. Boots for all our camping and hiking: mandatory all-leather, and 8". We all wore the same brand—it was the only thing available locally that fit the bill.

As an aside, 158gr jhp from a 6" GP-100 will do crazy things to a snake if you can get the hit. Not related to scouting, btw. ;)

I hunted in eastern WA for about 10 years. Fortunately I only encountered one rattlesnake and that was in early fall near Pearrygin Lake hunting grouse. Normally just gave them a wide berth but my dog wasn't trained to leave them alone so I dispatched the snake before my dog got on it. Never hunted there again. Lots of snakes in the Okanogan. Mostly hunted around Pomeroy and Garfield. I think the farmers plowed them all under in the spring which was good for me and my dog. Working in the SW was a bitch. Carried a revolver as a lot of my coworkers did. Worked a lot in N. AZ. during the land boom debacle. People probably thought we were a bunch of GD outlaws. The stories I could tell.

I can see camping in the back country where you are in the summer could have it's challenges.

[Joe in PNG]

Saw my fair share of rattlesnakes and cottonmouths in Florida growing up, but was able to avoid getting bit.

The old standard procedure for doing anything in my Grandpop's boathouse was to go in, look carefully, go out, get the shotgun, shoot the snakes, proceed with whatever you were planning on doing inside.

[OlongJohnson]

I grew up around biologists, some of whom were herpetologists in eastern Washington. There were no poisonous snakes on the wet side when I was a kid, though.

Got used to them living in SoCal. Hiking, it was no big deal, as you were moving slowly enough to see them well ahead.

Mountain biking in the hills just north of Pendleton, I ran out of traction on a climb and almost stepped on the biggest one I've ever seen that wasn't somehow restrained. Just luck that it was probably as surprised as I was and went for "flight" not "fight." I didn't actually see it at first, as its coloring matched the dirt and dry grass. Just heard its rattle going BBBZZZZZZHHHHT!!!!!!! right behind my leg as soon as my foot was on the ground. Didn't even process what it was, because I'd never heard one rattle with that intensity and continuous sound before. But I knew I didn't want to be there. Got about 8 ft up the hill as fast as I could and turned around to see a stripey shovel handle slithering off into the brush.

[Totem Polar]

The place to see rattlers is down on the road along the (wait for it) snake river, between boyer and wawawai. As it gets toward evening, they just come out of everywhere and lay on the warm asphalt. A friend’s dad (most here would be passingly familiar with his work as a professor) used to drive down with a snake stick and a bunch of 1 and 2 gallon canning jars, and just scoop them up by the dozens and pack them in there. He’d store them in the fridge to keep them sedate.

[idahojess]

Inslee's new standard for Spokane to move forward with additional reopening is "no new cases for three weeks." Other than that, maybe, just maybe a county will advance to "phase 2" on June 1. Depending on the data. (And the goal for that day).

Which is totally stupid, given that more tests are being given, including to asymptomatic people in certain facilities (meat packing plants, long term care facilities other risky environments). Of course more cases will be discovered with more testing.

So instead of a flattening or decreasing of the curve, we're going after no curve (and no economy).



Inslee told Spokane Mayor Nadine Woodward and several local elected officials during a conference call Tuesday afternoon that he would only allow a county to move from phase one of the state’s reopening plan to phase two if it has no new cases of COVID-19 for three weeks, according to Woodward.

https://www.spokesman.com/stories/2020/may/05/inslee-wants-no-new-cases-for-3-weeks-before-allow/

Statewide, 219,453 tests have been given, with 15,594 cases.


https://www.doh.wa.gov/Emergencies/NovelCoronavirusOutbreak2020COVID19/DataDashboard

[Totem Polar]

Inslee's new standard for Spokane...

Yeah, that. Reading between the lines shows some political infighting, because Mayor Woodward is now joined by Rep McMorris Rodgers in leaning on Inslee for an independent timeline for Spokane county. Inslee could ignore the mayor, but not a U.S. representative.

In other news, there are some incredible decisions being made with regard to school in the fall, but that is for another time in another thread.

[idahojess]

Yeah, that. Reading between the lines shows some political infighting, because Mayor Woodward is now joined by Rep McMorris Rodgers in leaning on Inslee for an independent timeline for Spokane county. Inslee could ignore the mayor, but not a U.S. representative.

In other news, there are some incredible decisions being made with regard to school in the fall, but that is for another time in another thread.

I saw that he's appointed Lisa Brown, the current secretary of the state Commerce department (you know who she is of course), to be leading one of the advisory teams on reopening. He'll get some different viewpoints out of that...

This was an interesting quote from an article I just read, about a "ReopenWA" Facebook group, and other business revolts:


“I’m a registered Democrat and have been for decades, but I’m extremely frustrated with Inslee … how a lot of these Democrat governors throughout the country seem to be … so quickly willing to trample on individual rights, to shut down people’s businesses,” Winfield said. “Listen, I’m a shareholder in Amazon, and as a shareholder, I appreciate the fact that they’re hitting all time highs during this pandemic. But as a Washingtonian and an American, I’m absolutely furious that our governors are shutting down their competition and allowing their stock to hit all times high.”

https://mynorthwest.com/1852086/rantz-washington-businesses-revolt-coronavirus-order/

(Yeah, I don't know what the guy means by being a registered Democrat in Washington, but that's a technicality).

[Totem Polar]

I saw that he's appointed Lisa Brown, the current secretary of the state Commerce department (you know who she is of course), to be leading one of the advisory teams on reopening. He'll get some different viewpoints out of that...


Thanks for that. My wife knows Lisa pretty well.

Given that it's cinco de mayo, I elected to make a rare break for it, and score us both a taco plate from one of the local places. I go in to pick up my carry out, and there's 3 guys I know, all at different tables. The server putting together the order goes "Hey [Sidheshooter!] Great to see you! Can I pour you a beer while you wait?"

Man, it was like coming off of a deserted island, or something, to be able to sit in that place and have a beer listening to cool tunes for even a moment, at my own table with 4 guys around the room shooting the breeze.

The spring sprouts are starting to come up through the cracks in the sidewalk, is all I'm saying.

(As an aside, there are a couple of P-F'ers who've sat at the same place with me, drinking brews and having eats on the patio. They're good peeps at this establishment, and I'm glad they're open. As another aside, my guy there tells me that they laid off over 3/4 of their staff... but that none of them especially care, because the unemployment package is so good... straaaange times indeed...)

[mtnbkr]

This has nothing to do with the conversation, but since all the WA people are passing through, what the hell.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/technology/tracking-the-asian-giant-murder-hornet-as-it-reaches-north-america/ar-BB13va3Q?ocid=spartandhp#image=BB13va3Q_1|1

In Japan, the hornets kill up to 50 people a year. Now, for the first time, they have arrived in the United States.

Mr. McFall still is not certain that Asian giant hornets were responsible for the plunder of his hive. But two of the predatory insects were discovered last fall in the northwest corner of Washington State, a few miles north of his property — the first sightings in the United States.

You’re welcome. Dust off the kid’s .410, and have a nice day.

:)



https://cdn.images.express.co.uk/img/dynamic/59/590x/156720700-379227.jpg

https://i.imgflip.com/404wvy.jpg

Chris

[Cookie Monster]

(As an aside, there are a couple of P-F'ers who've sat at the same place with me, drinking brews and having eats on the patio. They're good peeps at this establishment, and I'm glad they're open. As another aside, my guy there tells me that they laid off over 3/4 of their staff... but that none of them especially care, because the unemployment package is so good... straaaange times indeed...)


A 20 something that used to work for me started last week on a wildland fire crew, he is taking a pay cut from employment to start working again. The kid was making more than I do.

[AKDoug]

A 20 something that used to work for me started last week on a wildland fire crew, he is taking a pay cut from employment to start working again. The kid was making more than I do.

$600 a week is $15 an hour. Not an accident that congress put up the money for this. Most folks are making $21 an hour on unemployment. That number is pretty much more than any retail worker makes. Most of my staff has been making less than unemployment for this whole thing.

[OlongJohnson]

One can only hope that it pays off in future interviews:

"What did you do through the late spring and summer of 2020?"

"I had a job and worked."

I recall in 2008 and 2009, there was some talk about employers being much more interested in people who still had jobs than in the unemployed. Which made sense perhaps more then than now. There was a good, hard trimming of deadwood in a lot of places, which isn't quite what this has been.