Beginner's Question: What is 9mm "Luger" Ammunition?

[Bug]

I'm new to the pistol-forum and semi-new to serious gun ownership.
I have owned a Gen 3 Glock 19 for a few years, but I am just now getting into serious practice.
With that in mind, I'd like to buy ammunition in bulk for range purposes.
When looking at sites like Freedom Munitions, I notice that many of the 9mm options are for "luger" ammo
My first (and perhaps dumb) question: what is "luger" 9mm ammo?
Second question: for general practice shooting at paper targets, what would you guys recommend I look into purchasing?
Thanks in advance...
-Bug

[okie john]

First off, welcome to PF.

For a million reasons, some cartridges have more than one name. For instance, 9x19, 9mm, 9mm Parabellum, 9mm NATO, and 9mm Luger all refer to the ammo that you use in your G19. For practice ammo, almost anything will do but some brands and loads are more accurate in some pistols than others. For carry ammo, check out posts by DocGKR in the Ammunition forum.


Okie John

[Guerrero]

First off, welcome to PF.

For a million reasons, some cartridges have more than one name. For instance, 9x19, 9mm, 9mm Parabellum, 9mm NATO, and 9mm Luger all refer to the ammo that you use in your G19. For practice ammo, almost anything will do but some brands and loads are more accurate in some pistols than others. For carry ammo, check out posts by DocGKR in the Ammunition forum.


Okie John

Although, to be more confusing, 9mm NATO-spec will be "hotter" (more powerful) than Joe Shmoe 9mm 115gr FMJ (standard training-level cheap ammo)

[DpdG]

First off, welcome to PF.

For a million reasons, some cartridges have more than one name. For instance, 9x19, 9mm, 9mm Parabellum, 9mm NATO, and 9mm Luger all refer to the ammo that you use in your G19. For practice ammo, almost anything will do but some brands and loads are more accurate in some pistols than others. For carry ammo, check out posts by DocGKR in the Ammunition forum.


Okie John

Just to add for the OP- any of the above descriptions means the ammo will work in your pistol. There are also other 9mm diameter ammo that will not. Avoid other descriptors such as 9mm kurz, 9x17 (both mean .380), 9mm Makarov, 9x18mm, 9x23, 9mm Dillion, and I’m sure others.

[HCM]

Although, to be more confusing, 9mm NATO-spec will be "hotter" (more powerful) than Joe Shmoe 9mm 115gr FMJ (standard training-level cheap ammo)

As noted, the 9x19mm round is often referred to as 9mm Luger, since that was the first pistol it was chambered for and the 9mm Parabellum or 9mm para, which is Latin for “For War” since it was initially for military use.

9mm NATO and 9mm +P variations of 9x19mm are both slightly “hotter” than standard pressure 9mm ammo. Meaning it operates at slightly higher pressure and drives the bullets at slightly higher velocity. They are fine in any modern service pistol and is actually the ammunition 9mm Glocks are designed to run.

[RJ]

I'm new to the pistol-forum and semi-new to serious gun ownership.
I have owned a Gen 3 Glock 19 for a few years, but I am just now getting into serious practice.
With that in mind, I'd like to buy ammunition in bulk for range purposes.
When looking at sites like Freedom Munitions, I notice that many of the 9mm options are for "luger" ammo
My first (and perhaps dumb) question: what is "luger" 9mm ammo?
Second question: for general practice shooting at paper targets, what would you guys recommend I look into purchasing?
Thanks in advance...
-Bug

Warm welcome to p-f. I think the guys above covered "Luger" ammunition, but this link might also help to explain the term:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9%C3%9719mm_Parabellum

It is a bit of a coincidence the historic pistol and ammunition share the same name.

I am very far from an expert, but have found good online sources of practice ammunition, bought in larger quantities (multiples of 1,000) to be near the lowest prices. You may know this, but there three common "types" (weights actually) of the bullets in 9mm - 115 grain, 124 grain, and 147 grain. Depending on powder load, and weight, they will definitely feel different in your Glock 19.

I've settled on a couple providers lately:

www.sgammo.com

and

www.targetsportsusa.com

There are certainly others. FM is one of them; and I've happily shot many thousands of rounds of Freedom over the years. I also have had an occasional, and noticeable malfunction attributed to using FM. So I've opted not to order. But many use them without issue.

For me, I tend to order anything from Federal or Speer; usually Federal American Eagle or Speer Lawman, typically in 124 grain. This gives me good performance which matches point of impact / point of aim for my chosen carry load, Federal HST 147, in my gun(s) (Glock 19, Glock 43X), for how I shoot (lefty). YMMV.

Good luck!

This is a great place to ask questions. A lot of folks here have forgotten more about Pistols than I will ever know. Ask away. :)

Rich

[HCM]

Warm welcome to p-f. I think the guys above covered "Luger" ammunition, but this link might also help to explain the term:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9%C3%9719mm_Parabellum

It is a bit of a coincidence the historic pistol and ammunition share the same name.

I am very far from an expert, but have found good online sources of practice ammunition, bought in larger quantities (multiples of 1,000) to be near the lowest prices. You may know this, but there three common "types" (weights actually) of the bullets in 9mm - 115 grain, 124 grain, and 147 grain. Depending on powder load, and weight, they will definitely feel different in your Glock 19.

I've settled on a couple providers lately:

www.sgammo.com

and

www.targetsportsusa.com

There are certainly others. FM is one of them; and I've happily shot many thousands of rounds of Freedom over the years. I also have had an occasional, and noticeable malfunction attributed to using FM. So I've opted not to order. But many use them without issue.

For me, I tend to order anything from Federal or Speer; usually Federal American Eagle or Speer Lawman, typically in 124 grain. This gives me good performance which matches point of impact / point of aim for my chosen carry load, Federal HST 147, in my gun(s) (Glock 19, Glock 43X), for how I shoot (lefty). YMMV.

Good luck!

This is a great place to ask questions. A lot of folks here have forgotten more about Pistols than I will ever know. Ask away. :)

Rich

Second the recommendations for SG Ammo and Target Sports.

Other options include Lucygunner.com, and Natchez. AR parts purveyor Palmetto State Armory sometimes has good deals on bulk ammo.

One thing to consider is shipping.

Shipping for 1k of 9mm, for me is normally $16 from SG Ammo vs $24 from PSA. “Free shipping,” when offered is always built into the price so you need to look at the price to your door with shipping

For example:

1k of 9mm from SG Ammo at $184 = $200 to my door.

[Duelist]

Just to add for the OP- any of the above descriptions means the ammo will work in your pistol. There are also other 9mm diameter ammo that will not. Avoid other descriptors such as 9mm kurz, 9x17 (both mean .380), 9mm Makarov, 9x18mm, 9x23, 9mm Dillion, and I’m sure others.

9mm Largo, for example, is a fairly unusual round these days, but if you find some, don’t buy it for your G19 - Largo =/= Luger.

[Duelist]

Second the recommendations for SG Ammo and Target Sports.

Other options include Lucygunner.com, and Natchez. AR parts purveyor Palmetto State Armory sometimes has good deals on bulk ammo.

One thing to consider is shipping.

Shipping for 1k of 9mm, for me is normally $16 from SG Ammo vs $24 from PSA. “Free shipping,” when offered is always built into the price so you need to look at the price to your door with shipping

For example:

1k of 9mm from SG Ammo at $184 = $200 to my door.

luckygunner.com, not *lucy*

[Shoresy]

Second the recommendations for SG Ammo and Target Sports.

Other options include Lucygunner.com, and Natchez. AR parts purveyor Palmetto State Armory sometimes has good deals on bulk ammo.

One thing to consider is shipping.

Shipping for 1k of 9mm, for me is normally $16 from SG Ammo vs $24 from PSA. “Free shipping,” when offered is always built into the price so you need to look at the price to your door with shipping

For example:

1k of 9mm from SG Ammo at $184 = $200 to my door.

TargetSports frequently includes free shipping for bulk ammo (typically 1000 rounds). I'll second the recommendation of Target and SG, and I've purchased ammo and other stuff from Palmetto State frequently without any issues.

Also note across the top that Palmetto and Natchez are supporters of this site.

ETA: It's hard to go wrong with any weight of Speer Lawman if you can find it. (https://www.speer-ammo.com/performance/lawman)

[1Rangemaster]

As noted, the 9x19mm round is often referred to as 9mm Luger, since that was the first pistol it was chambered for and the 9mm Parabellum or 9mm para, which is Latin for “For War” since it was initially for military use.

9mm NATO and 9mm +P variations of 9x19mm are both slightly “hotter” than standard pressure 9mm ammo. Meaning it operates at slightly higher pressure and drives the bullets at slightly higher velocity. They are fine in any modern service pistol and is actually the ammunition 9mm Glocks are designed to run.

To the OP: welcome to the forum.
Reference your original question, “Luger” refers to the original designer of the cartridge, Georg Luger, an Austrian gun designer who designed the cartridge for the German military in the beginning of the 20th century.
Over the decades, it’s been referred to by many different names; I think Luger designated it “9mm Parabellum”. It received the designation of 9x19mm(19mm being the case length) sometime in the 1950s by NATO-this,9x19mmNATO.
As others have said, most 9mm ammo will work in your GLOCK. FWIW, I have used several bullet weights, usually 124 or 147 grain ball-full metal jacket- for training and competition. I prefer heavier bullets for defense like 135 gr. Hornady or 147 gr. jacketed hollow point...but ya have to hit the target no matter what cartridge.
So, train and practice-best of luck!

[Totem Polar]

I’ll go ahead and third or fourth, or whatever sgammo and targetsports. It’s worth haunting them to get a baseline on pricing. Prices are very high right now. If you can wait until the channels fill up again after all this COVID panic buying, you will likely save 80 bucks/1000 on 9mm.

Also, welcome to P-F.

[Joshmill]

And this is why this is the only forum I check regularly! A new member asks a question and everybody answers it and welcomes him. Welcome to the club, Bug!

[Bug]

Wow, I'm blown away by the fast and informative responses. You guys are all great.
Based on all y'all's recommendations, I ended up buying 1000 rounds from SGAmmo to get started; it wasn't particularly cheap, but I went ahead regardless.
Cheers everyone again. I really appreciate the warm welcome and advice.

[Baldanders]

Welcome to PF!

I can see why this is a source of confusion. Almost no one, either verbally or on the net, uses the "Luger" designation.

When folks bother to put a further descriptor on it usually ends up as "9mm Para" or something similar or "9x19."

Seems to be one of those unspoken gun culture things, and it goes back at least to the 80s.

(I think "9mm Luger" sounds a bit silly)

ETA: It's only "Luger" in North America, I think....

[Guerrero]

Welcome to PF!

I can see why this is a source of confusion. Almost no one, either verbally or on the net, uses the "Luger" designation.

When folks bother to put a further descriptor on it usually ends up as "9mm Para" or something similar or "9x19."

Seems to be one of those unspoken gun culture things, and it goes back at least to the 80s.

(I think "9mm Luger" sounds a bit silly)

I don't remember which brand, but one of the major ammo manufacturers puts "9mm Luger" on their boxes.

[Baldanders]

I don't remember which brand, but one of the major ammo manufacturers puts "9mm Luger" on their boxes.

Oh its used in packaging, websites, etc....I probably should have been clearer. I just meant actual gun people don't really use the term in direct communication with each other. At least I don't.

In the US, "9mm" is pretty clear as meaning 9x19, since 9mm Kurtz/Short is always ".380" and 9mm Mak is uncommon. Other 9mm cartridges are C&R fodder or pretty exotic (9mm Dillon).

[Guerrero]

Oh its used in packaging, websites, etc....I probably should have been clearer. I just meant actual gun people don't really use the term in direct communication with each other. At least I don't.

In the US, "9mm" is pretty clear as meaning 9x19, since 9mm Kurtz/Short is always ".380" and 9mm Mak is uncommon. Other 9mm cartridges are C&R fodder or pretty exotic (9mm Dillon).

Agreed.

[SiriusBlunder]

ETA: It's only "Luger" in North America, I think....

FYI - C.I.P.'s (https://bobp.cip-bobp.org/uploads/tdcc/tab-iv/tabivcal-en-page28.pdf) official name is "9 mm Luger", as is SAAMI's (https://saami.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/ANSI-SAAMI-Z299.3-CFP-and-R-Approved-2015-12-14-Posting-Copy.pdf) ("9mm Luger").

[Baldanders]

FYI - C.I.P.'s (https://bobp.cip-bobp.org/uploads/tdcc/tab-iv/tabivcal-en-page28.pdf) official name is "9 mm Luger", as is SAAMI's (https://saami.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/ANSI-SAAMI-Z299.3-CFP-and-R-Approved-2015-12-14-Posting-Copy.pdf) ("9mm Luger").

Thanks for the correction.

Why did "Luger" become a standard? Sure, first pistol for the chambering, but it wasn't the original name for the cartridge.

I'm not sure why I think firearms nomenclature should make sense. It often doesn't.

(My other pet peeve-- revolvers not being pistols. The original term was revolving/revolver-pistol...)

[SiriusBlunder]

Thanks for the correction.

Why did "Luger" become a standard? Sure, first pistol for the chambering, but it wasn't the original name for the cartridge.

I'm not sure why I think firearms nomenclature should make sense. It often doesn't.

(My other pet peeve-- revolvers not being pistols. The original term was revolving/revolver-pistol...)

Not sure when SAAMI or C.I.P. picked "Luger" and it became the standard. In the late 70's/early 80's, my circle referred to it as it 9mm Luger or sometimes 9mm Para(bellum) if we needed to differentiate between Makarov and Kurz/Corto/Browning/Short (had an acquaintance that refused to use .380 ACP and used the others randomly). Since then, seems like "Luger" has fallen out of favor colloquially in a lot of circles.

I agree with you. We used to use "pistol" and "handgun" interchangeably. Now that's a huge faux pas.

ETA: Since I'm corona-bored, I started searching for the history of the name and when SAAMI/C.I.P. standardized on "Luger". Nothing definite yet, but this doc (http://cartridgecollectors.org/documents/Introduction-to-9mm-Luger-Cartridges.pdf) with a history of headstamps and pics of old ammo boxes was interesting.

[JAH 3rd]

As others have said, shipping comparisons can save you a few bucks. SG Ammo and Target Sports are the two I check when comparing the same brand/quantity of ammo. With my last purchase of 45 acp from Natchez, it was considerably cheaper to buy 10 100 round boxes than the same ammo packed at 1000 rounds. I don't know what your local ammo availability situation is, but once in a blue moon I can find a deal locally.

As far as paper targets go, get a target that will contrast with your front sight. One day at the range, the light bulb came on! Shooting a black target with a black front sight is not ideal, at least for my old eyes. I found an orange target allowed me to easily track my front sight. The orange background even helps out with 3-dot sights too. I like to think that this aided my accuracy.......and cut down on frustration on sight picture acquisition.

[olstyn]

LOTS of 9x19 brass has the word "Luger" on the headstamp, too, not that most non-reloaders pay a lot of attention to that, of course.

ETA: Examples (not my image, found it with a google search for "9mm headstamp"):

http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r46/jonnycpics/2004-12-31%2023.00.00-72%202_zpsssnm2qyi.jpg

[UNM1136]

I am a fan of ammoman.com when they have stuff in stock. I learned a long time ago that their free shipping more than made up the sale prices+shipping Cabellas charged me.

pat