Shadow Systems MR920--John Farnam's Take

[Tokarev]

29 Apr 20



Shadow Systems



I now have my copy of the Shadow Systems’ MR920 Pistol about which I commented last January at this year’s SHOT Show.



Using the G19 as a model, the MR920 is designed as an “ergonomically enhanced” personal-defense carry-pistol. However, the MR920 does not use any Glock parts, and the entire gun is manufactured in America (TX).



The pistol is compact, slim, and very light, with no extra bulk, nor weight, nor maladroit protrusions. For a formidable 16-shooter, it is a pleasure to carry!



“Cat’s tongue” texturing on backstrap and grips. Excellent 5-pound trigger. Snappy reset. Ameriglow’s front sight.



My copy does not have an optic (at my request).



I took my copy to the Range today and put several hundred rounds of high-performance 9mm+p through it, Super-Vel, Defiant Munitions, Underwood, and Lehigh Defense.



The Manual that comes with the MR920 recommends a “break-in” of 200 rounds before carrying the gun for serious purposes. My experience today suggests that is probably unnecessary, as this pistol handily digested all ammunition I had with me, slow-fire and rapid-fire, without any hiccups.



For the past year-and-a-half I’ve been carrying my SIG320, and I have no complaints! That pistol has been my constant companion, has never let me down, and enjoys my sincerest recommendation!



Prior to that, I carried my G48, and my Walther PPQ prior to that. Both are also excellent, and recommended.



Now, I’ll be carrying and using my MR920. I’m satisfied that it is up to the task!



It retails for under 1k, and the MR920 thus represents a nice “custom” carry-pistol. I know all the central personalities at Shadow Systems, and I admire their personal devotion to excellence and to the advancement of our Art.



You can see the MR920 at Shadow System’s Web Page.



I’ll continue to report!



/John





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[GJM]

Several hundred flawless rounds and now his carry gun — that a vote for the Shadow or against the 320?

[Wendell]

You don't approve?

[vcdgrips]

"...rounds of high-performance 9mm+p through it, Super-Vel, Defiant Munitions, Underwood, and Lehigh Defense."

Interesting brand choices. I presume that is what he had about in the bin so to speak.

[EVP]

Like I mentioned in the last Shadow systems 920 thread,

I don’t really understand this gun. 1k for a Glock clone with no Glock parts built on a p80 lower filled with gimmicky stuff.

At least with a boring and inexpensive Glock you got some sort of track record and know it’s been vetted. Not to mention the backing of a company that I don’t really see going anywhere in a long time.

[BigT]

Not being a dick but...


Holosun regularly gets accused of all manner of intellectual theft despite having actual innovation.

A virtual clone of someone elses work gets a by ,peculiar.

[Tokarev]

Like I mentioned in the last Shadow systems 920 thread,

I don’t really understand this gun. 1k for a Glock clone with no Glock parts built on a p80 lower filled with gimmicky stuff.

At least with a boring and inexpensive Glock you got some sort of track record and know it’s been vetted. Not to mention the backing of a company that I don’t really see going anywhere in a long time.Nothing really gimmicky at all in the gun. No "-" connector or funky trigger mod that deactivates or renders the internal safeties less effective. No ultra-light striker spring that makes ignition spotty or unreliable.

Not sure about the optic mount yet as the guns are still too new but I imagine the lower position in the slide combined with the longer mounting screws and no adapter plate will prove to be a durable and reliable system.

Cosmetically the gun may be a bit flashy and not to everyone's taste. I get that. But the serrations are aggressive without being sharp, the grip texture is equally well done. The beavertail extension is what Glock should be doing. Anyone who gets slide bite from a factory G19 will agree...


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[Tokarev]

Also, the 918 (I assume the 920 also) has been "adopted" by the likes of Dan Brokos and John Lovell. Lovell even has his own version of the pistol. While doubters will say this is just advertising based on getting free guns I'll counter and say the same must then hold true with BCM's lineup of celebrities.

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[Tokarev]

Not being a dick but...


Holosun regularly gets accused of all manner of intellectual theft despite having actual innovation.

A virtual clone of someone elses work gets a by ,peculiar.Copies are standard practice in the firearms world. Some of the most popular products are copies of some other company's work.

Besides, Shadow Systems isn't the only company copying Glock.

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[Hambo]

From the website:


Current LEAD TIME: 14-16 weeks.

But Farnam has had his long enough to test it out.

You do the math.

[Whirlwind06]

In the way that we don't use reloads in our carry guns. Wouldn't these Gucci guns potentially be a problem too in a SD situation?

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[WobblyPossum]

In the way that we don't use reloads in our carry guns. Wouldn't these Gucci guns potentially be a problem too in a SD situation?

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I can’t imagine why. It’s not like you put an MR920 together the way you reload ammunition. It’s an off-the-shelf gun from a smaller, boutique manufacturer. It’s not even a gun that had custom work done to it. It’s no different from running a Hodge Defense AR instead of a Colt 6920. I can see having to pay your defense attorney to explain things in court after you shot someone with a Polymer 80 G19 clone you had to build and assemble yourself, but I don’t understand the concern about using this gun instead of a Glock one.

[JonInWA]

I'm not saying that the MR920 isn't a perfectly viable gun and worthy of acquisition. But I am a bit wary of such boutique guns; are they genuinely improved sufficiently (substantivally or even incrimentally) over their competition (which I imagine primarily to be Glock, SIG P320, HK VP, Smith & Wesson M&P) to justify going down the outlier path-against that which is more vetted, has more aftermarket suport, has more "on the ground" available aftermarket support?

Basically, my thought has been simply to get one of the more vetted mainstream alternatives, and a case of ammunition + training/practice/competition....

But hey, if it floates your boat, more power to you. Just be aware of the spectre of Hudson, Caracel, Remington....

There may be something to be said for a manufacturer with a track record, experience, fielding, depth of manufacturing capabilities, access to materials, and an engineering department, versus a bright idea/individual linked with some loose investment capitol...

Best, Jon

[Lester Polfus]

I've concluded that guns like this are great for other people to carry.

[Rex G]

In the way that we don't use reloads in our carry guns. Wouldn't these Gucci guns potentially be a problem too in a SD situation?

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No worries. I was qual’ed to carry two Les Baer 1911 duty pistols, at the time I retired from LEO-ing, in early 2018. When I wear a long-enough cover garment, I may still carry them. (The old shoulder is not as readily-articulable as it used to be, so with my short waist and long arms, carrying a 1911 means OWB, and not “high-ride.”)

I have been known to carry an even-more-boutique Seecamp LWS-32, on occasion.

Just stay away from the add-on skull, Mjolnir, and Punisher stuff.

[Duelist]

Tokarev ran his 918 in a 1000 round class last year. I was shooting next to him for most of it, and I don’t recall him having a single issue with the gun.

If they actually work (and it seems that they do), and the shooter can afford it and likes it, I don’t see a problem with them.

[Kanye Wyoming]

I’m a genuine nobody when it comes to guns and gun knowledge, and that’s not false modesty. So consider the source. That said, while I can’t speak to the MR920, I have an MR918, I installed the SCD, and it has been great through about 1500 rounds of various factory FMJ and JHP. Not a single bobble or hiccup, it feels great (much better than a G19 but just as light and concealable), shoots flat as hell, and on drills it is the very surprising equal to my VP9. In addition, their customer service is second to none. Is it worth $1500? Not a chance. But it’s only $850 to $900 or so depending on which variant you get, and definitely worth it just for the sights and stippling and undercut and RMR cut.

[Magsz]

Just for purposes of clarification, the pistol does not have a P80 frame. There is an important distinction there that must be made known...

[Tokarev]

Tokarev ran his 918 in a 1000 round class last year. I was shooting next to him for most of it, and I don’t recall him having a single issue with the gun.

If they actually work (and it seems that they do), and the shooter can afford it and likes it, I don’t see a problem with them.I did use my 918 but also used my Sokol Browning Hi Power. I'd say it was 65/35 in favor of the 918.

There was another fellow there with an MR918. His was the Elite model with the slide lightening cuts. I talked to him briefly and he said his gun was running fine.

Are these Shadow Systems guns really all that different from 1911s from Kimber, Springfield Armory, Ruger, etc? None of these three makers are traditional 1911 companies but they make 1911s that are accepted my most in the community. I suppose the argument can be made that Kimber and Ruger (and Springfield although possibly to a lesser extent) are firearms manufacturers with years in the business so they should know what's safe, good practice, etc.

Maybe a better comparison is the AR made by Noveske. I'm sure many here on the board own and shoot Noveske rifles and would recommend them to others even though they are a boutique maker. How much background and experience did Noveske have before selling rifles?

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[Hambo]

I suppose the argument can be made that Kimber and Ruger (and Springfield although possibly to a lesser extent) are firearms manufacturers with years in the business


I'm not an early adopter, so that colors my thinking.

If Glock really had their shit together, or they weren't Germanic, they would have done all this already and Shadow Systems wouldn't have an opening. If Shadow Systems wanted to be Uber cool, they'd have put an SCD in it. If they'd include an orange JMCK AIWB with the pistol, half the forum would have one already. ;)

[Navin Johnson]

I hope these guns are FAR better than Kimber, Springfield, and Ruger.

[Tokarev]

I'm not an early adopter, so that colors my thinking.

If Glock really had their shit together, or they weren't Germanic, they would have done all this already and Shadow Systems wouldn't have an opening. If Shadow Systems wanted to be Uber cool, they'd have put an SCD in it. If they'd include an orange JMCK AIWB with the pistol, half the forum would have one already. ;)Glock adding some similar "enhancements" would seem to be a no-brainer since there's now an entire industry devoted to improving the Glock. Why not beat them at their own game? But it took Glock until Gen5 to add an ambi slide release which is something other companies have been doing for a decade.

I guess Glock sells enough guns as-is without needing to change anything. In that case there's plenty of room for everyone in this market.

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[frozentundra]

I know John Farnam has also been a vocal proponent of the Springfield XD line of pistols. I've heard him group them in with Glock and S&W products when talking about guns that are 'good to go', so to speak. John probably sees a whole lot of rounds go downrange out of a lot of different pistols. I assume he is basing his opinions on first hand experience rather than conventional wisdom in these regards. And for the record, I don't doubt John's sincerity.


John's opinion aside, it strikes me that if you're going to attempt to produce a new handgun with the expectation that it would be simple, durable and reliable---a reverse engineered, superficially improved 9mm Glock is the absolute best way to accomplish this task!

The template is there, and with some of the older Glock patents expiring, it is there for the taking at this point. The engineering problems have been long solved, and you also get multiple decades of real-world field testing baked into the system for free. All you have to do is change as little as you possibly can. That's not to say they would automatically be 'as good as' Glock at making pistols. However, I'm cautiously optimistic about the future of 9mm Glock knockoffs for just these reasons.

The AR platform is a good example of this. A relatively inexpensive--but reasonably well executed--AR can run better than most other rifle designs in 2020. I'd trust a S&W Sport II far more than a Mini 14, Robinson XCR, ACR or even most FALs or AKs. I am hoping the 9mm Glock platform will become something like the AR platform during the 2nd quarter of the 21st century.

[HCM]

I know John Farnam has also been a vocal proponent of the Springfield XD line of pistols. I've heard him group them in with Glock and S&W products when talking about guns that are 'good to go', so to speak. John probably sees a whole lot of rounds go downrange out of a lot of different pistols. I assume he is basing his opinions on first hand experience rather than conventional wisdom in these regards. And for the record, I don't doubt John's sincerity.


John's opinion aside, it strikes me that if you're going to attempt to produce a new handgun with the expectation that it would be simple, durable and reliable---a reverse engineered, superficially improved 9mm Glock is the absolute best way to accomplish this task!

The template is there, and with some of the older Glock patents expiring, it is there for the taking at this point. The engineering problems have been long solved, and you also get multiple decades of real-world field testing baked into the system for free. All you have to do is change as little as you possibly can. That's not to say they would automatically be 'as good as' Glock at making pistols. However, I'm cautiously optimistic about the future of 9mm Glock knockoffs for just these reasons.

The AR platform is a good example of this. A relatively inexpensive--but reasonably well executed--AR can run better than most other rifle designs in 2020. I'd trust a S&W Sport II far more than a Mini 14, Robinson XCR, ACR or even most FALs or AKs. I am hoping the 9mm Glock platform will become something like the AR platform during the 2nd quarter of the 21st century.


Farnham has a thing for weird snowflake guns. Re; the XD, there is a cult of the XD among 1911/Gunsite people who dislike the Glocks idiosyncrasies. It predates the advent of the Thumb safety S&W M&P, which is a far better pistol.

Some of this may be that in the past both round counts and expectations of reliability were lower.

A good Glock clone that is cheaper than a Glock makes sense. I don’t see anything about the shadow systems clone that justifies the price,

[Tokarev]

I am hoping the 9mm Glock platform will become something like the AR platform during the 2nd quarter of the 21st century.


Glock inspired guns aren't new. Caspian made slides years ago and there was a metal frame made by CCF that used some Glock guts. S&W made a very near copy that Glock sued over. Aside from these, Lone Wolf and other companies have been making slides, barrels, and now frames. The 80% thing seems to be a continuing market too.

Shadow Systems started by customizing factory guns and offering some aftermarket parts. It was probably a logical and obvious choice to start making a complete pistol.

In addition to all this we now have Magpul making decent (user accounts vary) aftermarket mags. Glock mags have also been made by KCI and there were some metal mags made years ago by USA. I had a few back in the day. I don't remember them being of very good quality. Anyway, I suspect few would argue that part of Ruger's success with the new PCC is because it will take Glock mags. Buying a $500 carbine to save $15 on mags? Yup.

This all makes me wonder about "trade dress" and the idea that a company can own the style or look of a particular product. Ruger sued a Filipino company over trade dress of the 10/22 and they are suing TC over it now. I don't know why when AMT made a stainless 10/22 copy. Volquartsen still does. I think even Brownell's sells a 10/22 knockoff receiver. Why is Ruger not also suing these companies?

Maybe trade dress is largely part of why Shadow Systems chose to alter the exterior look of the 918 in favor of the 920. The 918 is obviously a Glock copy. So is the 920 but maybe not at first glance.



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[frozentundra]

Glock inspired guns aren't new. Caspian made slides years ago and there was a metal frame made by CCF that used some Glock guts. S&W made a very near copy that Glock sued over. Aside from these, Lone Wolf and other companies have been making slides, barrels, and now frames. The 80% thing seems to be a continuing market too.

Shadow Systems started by customizing factory guns and offering some aftermarket parts. It was probably a logical and obvious choice to start making a complete pistol.

In addition to all this we now have Magpul making decent (user accounts vary) aftermarket mags. Glock mags have also been made by KCI and there were some metal mags made years ago by USA. I had a few back in the day. I don't remember them being of very good quality. Anyway, I suspect few would argue that part of Ruger's success with the new PCC is because it will take Glock mags. Buying a $500 carbine to save $15 on mags? Yup.

This all makes me wonder about "trade dress" and the idea that a company can own the style or look of a particular product. Ruger sued a Filipino company over trade dress of the 10/22 and they are suing TC over it now. I don't know why when AMT made a stainless 10/22 copy. Volquartsen still does. I think even Brownell's sells a 10/22 knockoff receiver. Why is Ruger not also suing these companies?

Maybe trade dress is largely part of why Shadow Systems chose to alter the exterior look of the 918 in favor of the 920. The 918 is obviously a Glock copy. So is the 920 but maybe not at first glance.



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I didn't fully complete my line of reasoning with the analogy to the AR platform above. It definitely made me appear quite critical of Shadow Systems. That wasn't actually my intent. Sorry about that!

Going back to the AR platform analogy, I don't see any reason why Shadow Systems couldn't be a BCM or KAC of the 9mm Glock platform. They were companies that 'knocked off' (perhaps an inappropriate phrase in either case) Colt or Armalite or whoever. They simply took a good, standardized design--one that wasn't restricted by patents--and they did a good job copying it. They also added some desirable features/innovations/options that Colt didn't seem particularly interested in addressing and charged an additional premium. They did this without sacrificing reliability or durability. I don't know where Shadow Systems fits on this spectrum, and I'm not personally in a financial position to go see for myself, but I don't doubt they are 'good to go'.

As for Glock clones in general, and I may be veering way off into Dunning-Kruger territory here, but here it goes......

I think Glock has quietly--but purposefully--moved to transition the industry away from the 3rd Gen platform compatibility with Gen5 changes. Glock needs to keep their pistol empire dependent on current patents that are proprietary to their brand. If they can't get the market away from Gen3 quickly enough, they wind up with a potential AR platform problem. If it becomes financially advantageous for everyone to make a Glock like everyone can make an AR or 1911........what happens if Ruger gets frustrated with making completely useless auto pistols and decided to produce Ruger Gen3 Glocks? What happens if Mossberg and Savage start making Glocks?

If 3, or 5, or even 10 different manufacturers start making decent Gen3 'knockoffs' before Gen5 can sufficiently displace the old standard, Glock might be in a very unhappy position indeed. I think the success or failure of the upcoming Palmetto State Armory clone may prove pivotal in this regard. IF (and it's a big IF) PSA hits a full-on home run, it could start an industry-wide cascade of Gen3 non-Glocks to market within just a few years.

Gen5 Glocks may be the best Glocks ever made, but I think Glock was forced into changing the design by more than just competing for the FBI or military contracts. I think they want Gen3 to go away YESTERDAY, but they also can't afford to appear to stop supporting their product lines like Taurus or SIG.

[HCM]

I didn't fully complete my line of reasoning with the analogy to the AR platform above. It definitely made me appear quite critical of Shadow Systems. That wasn't actually my intent. Sorry about that!

Going back to the AR platform analogy, I don't see any reason why Shadow Systems couldn't be a BCM or KAC of the 9mm Glock platform. They were companies that 'knocked off' (perhaps an inappropriate phrase in either case) Colt or Armalite or whoever. They simply took a good, standardized design--one that wasn't restricted by patents--and they did a good job copying it. They also added some desirable features/innovations/options that Colt didn't seem particularly interested in addressing and charged an additional premium. They did this without sacrificing reliability or durability. I don't know where Shadow Systems fits on this spectrum, and I'm not personally in a financial position to go see for myself, but I don't doubt they are 'good to go'.

As for Glock clones in general, and I may be veering way off into Dunning-Kruger territory here, but here it goes......

I think Glock has quietly--but purposefully--moved to transition the industry away from the 3rd Gen platform compatibility with Gen5 changes. Glock needs to keep their pistol empire dependent on current patents that are proprietary to their brand. If they can't get the market away from Gen3 quickly enough, they wind up with a potential AR platform problem. If it becomes financially advantageous for everyone to make a Glock like everyone can make an AR or 1911........what happens if Ruger gets frustrated with making completely useless auto pistols and decided to produce Ruger Gen3 Glocks? What happens if Mossberg and Savage start making Glocks?

If 3, or 5, or even 10 different manufacturers start making decent Gen3 'knockoffs' before Gen5 can sufficiently displace the old standard, Glock might be in a very unhappy position indeed. I think the success or failure of the upcoming Palmetto State Armory clone may prove pivotal in this regard. IF (and it's a big IF) PSA hits a full-on home run, it could start an industry-wide cascade of Gen3 non-Glocks to market within just a few years.

Gen5 Glocks may be the best Glocks ever made, but I think Glock was forced into changing the design by more than just competing for the FBI or military contracts. I think they want Gen3 to go away YESTERDAY, but they also can't afford to appear to stop supporting their product lines like Taurus or SIG.

My understanding has always been that the reason the Gen3s didn’t go away when the Gen 4s came out was 1) the Ca market, and 2) certain contracts that still specified Gen3s because that was what was tested /approved/ “in the system.”

At least one of those contracts I’m aware of has transitioned to Gen 4 guns. If the CA could be overturned Gen3s would go away.

The other factor is Glock “perfection” really wasn’t so perfect. The Gen 5 guns, especially those with the new breach face cut really are a better mouse trap.

Honestly the other concern for Glock re: knock offs is that much of the Glock aftermarket is simply shit.

Besides the obvious cheap shit, there is quite a bit of fancy overpriced shit or unnecessary shit.

Shitty Glock clones diminish the value of Glock’s brand by association.

Imagine Glock was Dan Wesson making pretty good 1911s and building a reputation for reliability and then your patent expires and you have Taurus, Rock Island and a bunch of third tier Turkish shotgun makers cranking out shitty “ 1911 Clones.” Pretty soon people are saying “1911s” suck. Now Dan Wesson 1911s don’t suck but most people don’t even know enough to know the difference or get suckered by a “just as good as” gun store huckster or YouTube huckster.

As Stringer Bell showed us on The Wire, when your brand loses consumer credibility you need to wholly or partially rebrand.


https://youtu.be/mDBq-OU1rHo

Like the dope business, the gun business is about ..... business...

[Tokarev]

Just to clarify; the Shadow Systems pistol (both the 918 and 920) is based off the Gen 4 platform. The recoil spring is a single spring unit but the abutment in the slide is the bigger Gen 4 as is the corresponding shape of the dust cover.

It is true that there's a measure of crap in the Glock aftermarket but that isn't true in all cases. Like anything, some products are aimed to meet a price point instead of meeting a quality standard.

Shadow Systems seems to have found a middle ground of sorts. They are offering a pistol that's more expensive than a factory Glock but less expensive than a customized factory Glock.


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[frozentundra]

My understanding has always been that the reason the Gen3s didn’t go away when the Gen 4s came out was 1) the Ca market, and 2) certain contracts that still specified Gen3s because that was what was tested /approved/ “in the system.”

At least one of those contracts I’m aware of has transitioned to Gen 4 guns. If the CA could be overturned Gen3s would go away.

The other factor is Glock “perfection” really wasn’t so perfect. The Gen 5 guns, especially those with the new breach face cut really are a better mouse trap.

Honestly the other concern for Glock re: knock offs is that much of the Glock aftermarket is simply shit.

Besides the obvious cheap shit, there is quite a bit of fancy overpriced shit or unnecessary shit.

Shitty Glock clones diminish the value of Glock’s brand by association.

Imagine Glock was Dan Wesson making pretty good 1911s and building a reputation for reliability and then your patent expires and you have Taurus, Rock Island and a bunch of third tier Turkish shotgun makers cranking out shitty “ 1911 Clones.” Pretty soon people are saying “1911s” suck. Now Dan Wesson 1911s don’t suck but most people don’t even know enough to know the difference or get suckered by a “just as good as” gun store huckster or YouTube huckster.



I don't exactly disagree with you, but I think there are couple important distinctions to be made here.

Firstly, I don't believe that changes in the Glock platform have really been motivated by desire to produce a better, more reliable product than the Gen3. I think Glock 'innovation' has been driven almost exclusively by market pressure, and Glock resists it as long as they can.

This isn't exactly a bad thing; I think it's far better than SIG's product line jumping around with it's hair on fire. However, I guess SIG's flailing has innovated them into a good position with the present 320 industry situation. Glock's perennial failing to significantly address their ergonomic inflexibility has probably cost them here.

Secondly, I think the unending selection of aftermarket crap actually makes the 1911 and Glock platforms way more popular vs less. It certainly creates it's own set of problems, but I think it's the epitome of the economic (and maybe Biblical) 'Matthew Principle' at work.



Personally, I'm happy to see companies like Shadow Systems potentially filling the BCM niche for the Glock platform. Likewise, I'll be happy to see PSA fill the...PSA niche... for the Glock platform. I hope it cascades into AR-15 levels of manufacturing ubiquity.

[Texaspoff]

Shadow Systems is no different that what Wilson Combat did. They started out working over factory guns and creating some aftermarket parts. The decided why not get into the gun building market. Wilson began building his own 1911's and Shadow Systems is building their own pistol based on the Glock Platform.

I applaud Shadow Systems for not selling the MR918 and MR920 at prices that average folks can't afford, cause there are some Glock based pistols with prices that are obscene.

Does the MR pistols do anything a factory Glock won't, not really, but they are nice, and have a solid feature set, including better overall ergos than a Glock.

Ergos have always been the biggest issues with Glock pistol, otherwise guys like me, Bowie, Boresight, etc. wouldn't have a market for our business.

So if you fancy a factory Glock, cool, if you decide you want to spend the extra and get an MR series gun, good for you as well.

I own several 1911's, and I own a few Wilson 1911's. Do the Wilson's do anything better than my 43' Remington 1911, Nope, but it shure looks purtyier. :)




TXPO

[HCM]

I don't exactly disagree with you, but I think there are couple important distinctions to be made here.

Firstly, I don't believe that changes in the Glock platform have really been motivated by desire to produce a better, more reliable product than the Gen3. I think Glock 'innovation' has been driven almost exclusively by market pressure, and Glock resists it as long as they can.

This isn't exactly a bad thing; I think it's far better than SIG's product line jumping around with it's hair on fire. However, I guess SIG's flailing has innovated them into a good position with the present 320 industry situation. Glock's perennial failing to significantly address their ergonomic inflexibility has probably cost them here.

Secondly, I think the unending selection of aftermarket crap actually makes the 1911 and Glock platforms way more popular vs less. It certainly creates it's own set of problems, but I think it's the epitome of the economic (and maybe Biblical) 'Matthew Principle' at work.



Personally, I'm happy to see companies like Shadow Systems potentially filling the BCM niche for the Glock platform. Likewise, I'll be happy to see PSA fill the...PSA niche... for the Glock platform. I hope it cascades into AR-15 levels of manufacturing ubiquity.

Tne Gen 3 was ok in 9mm. Tne driving force behind the Gen 4 was .40 caliber. Gen 2 and 3 Glocks had serious reliability and durability issues which were compounded by WML.

The backstrap system continued through gen 5 may have been market driven but the core Gen 4 changes were driven by necessity.

I also don’t see shadow systems being anywhere near the league of BCM. They are just one of dozens of “tac-bro” companies selling overpriced Glock parts with cosmetic enhancements.

Unity tactical and Agency have Both developed modular mounting systems superior to the Glock MOS. Outside of this and the gadget striker control device, sights I don’t see much of real value.

[Tokarev]

Unity tactical and Agency have Both developed modular mounting systems superior to the Glock MOS.

The difference here with the MR920 is that no optic mounting plate is required. The slide is cut low and drilled and tapped for several optics. A person can mount an RMR or Deltapoint without doing anything else or buying something that doesn't come with the gun. With that said, there are some spacers that fit between the optic and the dovetail, depending on the optic. Spacers are included with the pistol.


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[RDT806]

I can’t for the life of me understand why this gun is so hard for people to comprehend. Glock had the largest market for non OEM parts and customization in the industry. Before Shadow Systems existed you had to pay significantly more and endure wait times to get these things done to your gun. What’s so hard to understand?

A Gen 4 Glock 19 with a stippled, undercut frame that allows you to change grip angles at will. Added slide serrations whether you use them or not. An improved aluminum flat faced trigger. A match grade threaded barrel. Better sights. And an good multi optics cut that doesn’t require junk plates that co-witness to the sights the gun comes with for $999.

What’s not to get? For people that want a Glock with a dot and stippling it’s already worth it. The MOS system is junk. Period. This is far superior. Don’t like the Glock grip angle? Swap the back strap. Don’t like the Glock trigger? Done. People pay $2500 for an Agency that’s absolutely no better. If you think a stock Glock is just as good great. Use that. But not everyone agrees.

[JohnnyL]

The MR920 platform is the firearm that John Lovell went with for his "branded" WPS pistol. That is a pretty good recommendation considering how picky he seems to be with his firearms. It was modeled from the Gen 4 19 as someone mentioned and I believe it can use all of the same accessories. It is too close in purpose to my P320 RX so I can't really justify going with it unless I sell my Sig. But my P320 has been rock solid so I don't see a reason to.

[raholland]

A Gen 4 Glock 19 with a stippled, undercut frame that allows you to change grip angles at will. Added slide serrations whether you use them or not. An improved aluminum flat faced trigger. A match grade threaded barrel. Better sights. And an good multi optics cut that doesn’t require junk plates that co-witness to the sights the gun comes with for $999.


This is why I'm considering getting one. Starting with a factory Glock and then getting similar work done on it would be well over $1K.

[Joel]

Does anyone know if the MR920 slide will fit on a gen 5 frame?

[Tokarev]

Does anyone know if the MR920 slide will fit on a gen 5 frame?Yes but you'll have to modify the back plate. The Shadow Systems plate won't clear the frame extension in front of the cruciform.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210615/3cac059a950f94172705fe724e1e2d32.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210615/60b78a6973d753f1cb967a498e319e6e.jpg

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[newyork]

Does a gadget work on an mr920?

[Joel]

Yes but you'll have to modify the back plate. The Shadow Systems plate won't clear the frame extension in front of the cruciform.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210615/3cac059a950f94172705fe724e1e2d32.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210615/60b78a6973d753f1cb967a498e319e6e.jpg

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Thank you very much for the reply. By modify, do you mean custom work or a Gen 5 back plate? Also, anything else beside the back plate that needs to be modified?

Regards,

Joel

[Tokarev]

Thank you very much for the reply. By modify, do you mean custom work or a Gen 5 back plate? Also, anything else beside the back plate that needs to be modified?

Regards,

JoelFile out the notch on the righthand side. That should be all it takes.



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[M2CattleCo]

"...rounds of high-performance 9mm+p through it, Super-Vel, Defiant Munitions, Underwood, and Lehigh Defense."

Interesting brand choices. I presume that is what he had about in the bin so to speak.


If you knew the guy you’d understand. :p

[Joel]

File out the notch on the righthand side. That should be all it takes.



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Thank you very much. My other concern was the Gen 5 has an ambi slide release.

[Tokarev]

Thank you very much. My other concern was the Gen 5 has an ambi slide release.There appears to be enough "play" in the right side slide release that it will clear a Gen4 pattern slide. I didn't try it live fire but it locks open on an empty mag no problem.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210615/2fa0555ef9296adac86f7a6e0c94348d.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210615/61a5154da0a0a94bcaa26b9ff2b2f4d0.jpg

It should be possible, if necessary, to file a notch in the slide to mirror what's on the left. Touch up with cold blue or leave in the white.

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[papaduke]

Like I mentioned in the last Shadow systems 920 thread,

I don’t really understand this gun. 1k for a Glock clone with no Glock parts built on a p80 lower filled with gimmicky stuff.

At least with a boring and inexpensive Glock you got some sort of track record and know it’s been vetted. Not to mention the backing of a company that I don’t really see going anywhere in a long time.

Wow. There is a whole lot here that needs to be broken down. I've owned a few - g23, g17, g48 of "boring inexpensive Glocks" AND an MR920. So I have direct, first hand knowledge of both systems.

1) The frame and slide are SS proprietary design, they were able to successfully lower the bore axis to make a soft shooting 9mm, even softer.
2) The frame is NOT a p80 frame, and p80 does not make the frame for SS. They've come out and said that already.
3) The backstrap system is proprietary and should considered the gold standard IMO. They actually change the POI based on grip angle, and they allow you to achieve a natural point of aim.
4) The warranty they carry IMO is second to none. If involved in a SD incident they will give you a replacement (if you are still legal to do so), I had a concern about firing pin reliability after reading a few comments, I emailed SS and they sent me a firing pin assembly no questions asked just in case
5) not sure what you consider gimmicky but lets breakdown pricing:
Gen 4 Glock 19 - $519
Slide Milling/Cerakoting - $279
Aluminum Trigger - $135
Stippling $85+
Magwell - $29
TTI Connector - $44
Ameriglo Sights - $80
Recoil Spring Adapter/SS Guide Rod Setup for Flat Wound Spring - $35
Aluminum Mag Release - $35

Add another $200 if you do a barrel upgrade.

Total for doing the same work that the MR920 Comes from the factory with: ~$1440

MR920 Combat - $699
MR920 Elite - $970

I'm having a really hard time seeing your angle here? I purchase my MR920 last year after nearly 6 months of research and debating between a stock 19 and the MR920. Have yet to do anything by shoot my 920. The first thing I do with my 'boring inexpensive Glocks' is put money into them whether its sights, trigger, etc. Which also represents a large number of Glock owners that do the same they when they purchase a new Glock.

My suggestion (IMHO) find someone who has an MR920, and shoot it, and then form your opinion. At the very least, get some education on the product before you call it gimmicky.

[GmanVP9]

^my buddy has a SS, absolutely loves it. He's slowly getting away from all of his Glocks because of it (aside his Gen 3, 19)