Air soft? Any value.

[flux]

So recently there was a video about Travis Haley and why he plays airsoft. Has anybody played airsoft with the intention of improving your mobility etc? Is there any training value in it or is it more for entertainment ? Anyone experienced on the CQB side of things, does it actually assist in training?

[Zincwarrior]

I imagine its an excellent way for the wife to collect on my life insurance policy. That looks like a lot of running around. :rolleyes:

Its a game so that has to be remembered. Plus things don't go through walls. Having said that I know of several good locations that use airsoft in their actual force on force training.

[mtnbkr]

Got a link to the video? I use airsoft for in-home drills and such, but have also considered getting into airsoft at the local airsoft field/range/whatever-the-hell-they-call-it for the firearms-related movement and tactics. I'd be interested in seeing what others have to say.

Chris

[flux]

This was years ago

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=GoHA-rhGeG4
This was the recent one
The end bit he discusses airsoft vs realsteel

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=GoHA-rhGeG4

[psalms144.1]

I prefer Airsoft to Simunitions for force on force training, due to lower requirements for protective gear, and much easier cleanup. Plus, there's no way for an Airsoft gun to be loaded with live ammunition, a big plus for agencies that are doing simunitions "conversion" on duty pistols for training, and, unfortunately end up shooting each other with real ammo.

As with any FOF training, the keys are to have a well scripted scenario with specific training goals (e.g. no Kobayashi Maru scenarios with squads of Nazi frogmen rappeling out of the overhead behind guys) and TIGHTLY controlled role players.

[flux]

I prefer Airsoft to Simunitions for force on force training, due to lower requirements for protective gear, and much easier cleanup. Plus, there's no way for an Airsoft gun to be loaded with live ammunition, a big plus for agencies that are doing simunitions "conversion" on duty pistols for training, and, unfortunately end up shooting each other with real ammo.

As with any FOF training, the keys are to have a well scripted scenario with specific training goals (e.g. no Kobayashi Maru scenarios with squads of Nazi frogmen rappeling out of the overhead behind guys) and TIGHTLY controlled role players.

Would you then say the social “pitch up and play” games not offer anything of value?

[psalms144.1]

Would you then say the social “pitch up and play” games not offer anything of value?Minimal use, unless you need your ego bruised by being peppered by a bunch of kids who do that all the time and know all the angles. Most of the "games" I've seen move as such a ferociously fast pace that there's not a lot of time to evaluate the situation, develop tactics, etc - mostly just "run and gun" stuff...

[Clusterfrack]

I’ve had good experience with airsoft as a FoF training tool. Except for getting shot in the dickhole. That was not a good experience.

It’s also a great way for less experienced people to get a reality check about what they can and can’t do with their gun.

[Warped Mindless]

Airsoft is as good of a tool as you make it.

Realistic and well done force on force that puts a student in a situation that makes him think and make decisions while also getting a way to realistically evaluate his current skills is a great tool and use for airsoft.

That said, going down to local airsoft field and playing real life Call Of Duty with kids and out of shape gamer nerds (no disrespect intended, I love games too sometimes) wont be of much value. The scenarios arent realistic, people lie about being hit, and everyone just does absurd dumb stuff.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

Well done airsoft in FOF is very useful. Here's a piece by my good friend Karl Rehn who was one of the early pioneers of such usage. https://www.krtraining.com/KRTraining/Archive/SWAT-Karl1.pdf

Here's an older thread from here: https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?31901-Airsoft-Blowback-Pistols-for-Training

https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?32393-Airsoft-Training

Here's a book: Force-On-Force Police Training Using Airsoft: A Manual for the Law ...
By Luis E. Martinez, Luis E. Martinez Med

I've done quite a bit of it in well scripted and refereed classes. Works pretty well in my civilian opinion. It can hurt and draw blood from surface booboos.

Japanese users to real guns: https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2019/08/26/can-japanese-airsoft-skills-translate-to-shooting-firearms/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tatsuya_Sakai_(marksman)

[Zincwarrior]

I’ve had good experience with airsoft as a FoF training tool. Except for getting shot in the dickhole. That was not a good experience.

It’s also a great way for less experienced people to get a reality check about what they can and can’t do with their gun.

We told you to wear pants, but you would not listen...

[Clusterfrack]

We told you to wear pants, but you would not listen...

Dude. I had my pants on, but that crazy chick shot me there anyway. She was fucking nuts. Punched another guy straight in the face, bare knuckles. Kinda admire that.

[flux]

Excellent, thanks for the feedback. So what I'm seeing, just going to open games and shooting away doesn't really hold much value. But scenario, based, Force on force it has value.

[Randy Harris]

It’s also a great way for less experienced people to get a reality check about what they can and can’t do with their gun.

This. Absolutely and for sure.

Most folks (even CCW guys) are armpit deep in Kruger-Dunning until the first time they have to try to get their gun out in real time to deal with a dedicated opponent... The first time that happens hopefully will be in training and won't be when it is happening for real. Scripted Airsoft (or Simunitions or UTM) scenarios and drills help you to see what (as Ken Murray calls it) " speed of life" is.

As a side note it is also rather disturbing to see the number of people who can't get their Serpa holster to release their gun when trying to do it under pressure for the first time....

[Glenn E. Meyer]

That is scary as well as depressing. I saw an SO (quite the skilled competitor and LEO) basically grab a guy struggling with the gun and holster. Looked like something bad was going to happen.

[Shawn Dodson]

A very good book about force-on-force training in general "Training at the Speed of Life"

[Suvorov]

Excellent, thanks for the feedback. So what I'm seeing, just going to open games and shooting away doesn't really hold much value. But scenario, based, Force on force it has value.

Pretty much my opinion. I've used it to run through various use of force scenarios with my wife and I think it worked real well (hope I never have to have it validated). I also use it to practice contact/retention shooting techniques at speeds I am not comfortable doing at high speed with live ammo.

[Zincwarrior]

Excellent, thanks for the feedback. So what I'm seeing, just going to open games and shooting away doesn't really hold much value. But scenario, based, Force on force it has value.Might be fun though.

[Mark D]

Haley has considerable real-life experience. If he says it's beneficial, I'm inclined to listen.

[deputyG23]

We used them for AS training years ago. As others have stated, as long as control is maintained over the players, they are useful and much easier to clean up.