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vcdgrips
04-28-2020, 03:54 PM
As I posted in the Retail Therapy Thread, I just picked up the Spyderco Sharpmaker because I am a complete knife sharpening novice beyond using a steel on my kitchen knives. I made the purchase knowing fully that it may be a 90 % solution 90% of the time relative to other, particularly motorized systems.

My initial impressions are quite positive. I do concur that is does its best work at touching up/ maintaining and a knife that was 1/2 way sharp in the first place. I have be practicing on a cheapy Kershaw (Model 1445 with 8CR13MOV steel). It has gone from dull to barely cut typing paper sharp with a lot of work at both the 40 and 30 Degree settings. (hundreds of passes)

I "touched" up a SAK, a Spyderco Cat 10 and a CPMS 30V Native that was a WalMart Special way back in the day to thin legal pad paper slicing sharpness with relative ease (dozens of passes).


Questions:

1. Should my default setting be at 40 (20 a side) setting or the 30 (15 a side setting)? There is much conflicting info on to include from the master himself Sal G of Spyderco?

2. Any harm in just doing 10 passes a side with the white fine stones on the flats every day on the way out the door as I move thru the carry rotation


Before I start on a VG 10 Limited Edition Wave and my Clinch Pick, I thought it best to ask around a bit. I have watched a fair number of videos on line.

Any other nuggets of Sharpmaker wisdom are most appreciated.

blues
04-28-2020, 04:21 PM
1. There is no default per se. It really depends on the angle of the existing edge bevel.

Try taking a piece of newspaper and tightly wrap it around one of the rods when placed in each of the slots, 20 and 15 degrees. (Flat side of the hone.)

Place the knife vertically as if you were going to hone it and see if the edge "bites" into the paper. If it slides on the paper in the 15 degree slot, that means that the edge bevel is more obtuse than 15 degrees, (or 30 degrees "included"). If it bites into the paper, Bob's your uncle and that's the best slot to use for future sharpening.

Try in the 20 degree. If it bites into the paper, then use the 20 degree slots to maintain. If it slides down the 20* rod, then the edge bevel will need to be thinned (at the shoulder) for the Sharpmaker to sharpen the edge. This is where a coarser hone makes for quicker work...during the "thinning".

Even if the edge bites into the 15* side, you can micro-bevel with a few strokes in the 20 degree slot daily to keep the edge more robust and more quickly sharpen in future.

2. There is no harm done by giving a few licks on the hones daily after use. It will keep the edge running longer.

I linked several videos in an earlier discussion on the Sharpmaker. If you have specific questions I'm happy to try to answer them here or speak to you on the phone, which may be easier.

JCS
04-29-2020, 06:42 PM
As I posted in the Retail Therapy Thread, I just picked up the Spyderco Sharpmaker (https://www.amazon.com/Spyderco-Tri-Angle-Sharpmaker-Sharpener-204MF/dp/B000Q9C4AE/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?crid=3J9R9ICBF20IU&dchild=1&keywords=spyderco+sharpmaker&qid=1588211087&sprefix=Spyderco+sh%2Caps%2C145&sr=8-1-spons&psc=1&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUEzODJZODNPN1JHOEJNJ mVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwNDg1MzI5RkU2TjFIWEExWjZNJmVuY3J 5cHRlZEFkSWQ9QTA0MjQyMDEzTldBUlk2QlRPNEIyJndpZGdld E5hbWU9c3BfYXRmJmFjdGlvbj1jbGlja1JlZGlyZWN0JmRvTm9 0TG9nQ2xpY2s9dHJ1ZQ==) because I am a complete knife sharpening novice beyond using a steel on my kitchen knives. I made the purchase knowing fully that it may be a 90 % solution 90% of the time relative to other, particularly motorized systems.

My initial impressions are quite positive. I do concur that is does its best work at touching up/ maintaining and a knife that was 1/2 way sharp in the first place. I have be practicing on a cheapy Kershaw (Model 1445 with 8CR13MOV steel). It has gone from dull to barely cut typing paper sharp with a lot of work at both the 40 and 30 Degree settings. (hundreds of passes)

I "touched" up a SAK, a Spyderco Cat 10 and a CPMS 30V Native that was a WalMart Special way back in the day to thin legal pad paper slicing sharpness with relative ease (dozens of passes).


Questions:

1. Should my default setting be at 40 (20 a side) setting or the 30 (15 a side setting)? There is much conflicting info on to include from the master himself Sal G of Spyderco?

2. Any harm in just doing 10 passes a side with the white fine stones on the flats every day on the way out the door as I move thru the carry rotation


Before I start on a VG 10 Limited Edition Wave and my Clinch Pick, I thought it best to ask around a bit. I have watched a fair number of videos on line.

Any other nuggets of Sharpmaker wisdom are most appreciated.

The 15/30 is used mostly for re-profiling a knife. For folding knives the 20/40 is what you want to use. Really cheap knives may be ground at an angle larger than 20 per side. That means your stones won’t hit the edge of the blade. It shouldn’t take hundreds of passes so most likely that’s what is happening. Kershaws vary widely with their grinds. I had some that I could use the sharpmaker on. But I measured some with angles of 25-30 degrees which is huge. The more acute the edge the better cutting, although there is a happy medium because if you get too acute the edge chips more easily.

The sharpie trick is very helpful. Use a sharpie to color the edge of your knife and then make 5-10 passes per side. Ideally you want to see shiny metal and the sharpie removed on the edge. If it’s not then your knife is ground wider than 20 and will need to be re-profiled to use a sharp maker.

Making ten passes really isn’t necessary every day unless you’re cutting a lot with it. Every time you use the stones it removes some metal. Granted it’s a small amount and you’ll likely never notice if you have multiple knives. If you wanted something for daily maintenance I would get a strop.

When I got my sharpmaker (https://www.amazon.com/Spyderco-Tri-Angle-Sharpmaker-Sharpener-204MF/dp/B000Q9C4AE/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?crid=3J9R9ICBF20IU&dchild=1&keywords=spyderco+sharpmaker&qid=1588211087&sprefix=Spyderco+sh%2Caps%2C145&sr=8-1-spons&psc=1&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUEzODJZODNPN1JHOEJNJ mVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwNDg1MzI5RkU2TjFIWEExWjZNJmVuY3J 5cHRlZEFkSWQ9QTA0MjQyMDEzTldBUlk2QlRPNEIyJndpZGdld E5hbWU9c3BfYXRmJmFjdGlvbj1jbGlja1JlZGlyZWN0JmRvTm9 0TG9nQ2xpY2s9dHJ1ZQ==) I got a strop with it and I was able to get hair whittling edges after not too long on my Spyderco knives. If you have any other questions let me know or feel free to PM me if you like.

JCS
04-29-2020, 06:50 PM
53064

Honestly, this is way sharper than one could ever need but who doesn’t want a sharp knife?

Clusterfrack
04-29-2020, 07:37 PM
This thread reminded me to use a strop and green polish to refresh the edge on my ZT Elmax blade. It shaves again.

I use the Sharpmaker (https://www.amazon.com/Spyderco-Tri-Angle-Sharpmaker-Sharpener-204MF/dp/B000Q9C4AE/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?crid=3J9R9ICBF20IU&dchild=1&keywords=spyderco+sharpmaker&qid=1588211087&sprefix=Spyderco+sh%2Caps%2C145&sr=8-1-spons&psc=1&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUEzODJZODNPN1JHOEJNJ mVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwNDg1MzI5RkU2TjFIWEExWjZNJmVuY3J 5cHRlZEFkSWQ9QTA0MjQyMDEzTldBUlk2QlRPNEIyJndpZGdld E5hbWU9c3BfYXRmJmFjdGlvbj1jbGlja1JlZGlyZWN0JmRvTm9 0TG9nQ2xpY2s9dHJ1ZQ==) for heavier sharpening tasks.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200430/6573cff2b928439107c155a621d74ffc.jpg

vcdgrips
04-29-2020, 07:41 PM
Thank you to date for your help and input. I really appreciate it.

I have made a Spyderco VG10 Endura Wave, a Spyderco CPMS30V Native, a Spyderco BD1 Cat-10, a 1st Run Chinese 12C27 Clinch Pick and a Maurice Lacroix Victornox (2 inch cutting blade/ 1 inch watch back removal "blade") to a hair of the forearm shaving sharp level. I have also "stropped" with the jeans I was wearing after cutting some paper and it seemed to put a finishing touch right on the blade.

I will chalk up the barely cutting paper sharp Kershaw to the learning curve and drive on as it was found on a campout and never claimed by any of our Scouts such that I have 0 in the knife in the first instance.

I feel confident enough to re sharpen all of the knives above with the Sharpmaker and similar blade designs in the future.

I have custom Benchmade partially serrated S30V Mini Barrage that was a gift such that I might default to sending that one in to Benchmade when the time comes to sharpen it given the serrations and black colored/engraved blade.

The Sharpmaker (https://www.amazon.com/Spyderco-Tri-Angle-Sharpmaker-Sharpener-204MF/dp/B000Q9C4AE/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?crid=3J9R9ICBF20IU&dchild=1&keywords=spyderco+sharpmaker&qid=1588211087&sprefix=Spyderco+sh%2Caps%2C145&sr=8-1-spons&psc=1&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUEzODJZODNPN1JHOEJNJ mVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwNDg1MzI5RkU2TjFIWEExWjZNJmVuY3J 5cHRlZEFkSWQ9QTA0MjQyMDEzTldBUlk2QlRPNEIyJndpZGdld E5hbWU9c3BfYXRmJmFjdGlvbj1jbGlja1JlZGlyZWN0JmRvTm9 0TG9nQ2xpY2s9dHJ1ZQ==) may have been my best piece of retail therapy since 1 Jan 2020.

LittleLebowski
04-29-2020, 08:47 PM
This place is costly.

sparkyv
04-30-2020, 06:00 AM
Did you get there with the sharpmaker or another system? I get there with the Lansky. SCARY sharp!

53064

Honestly, this is way sharper than one could ever need but who doesn’t want a sharp knife?

JHC
04-30-2020, 06:16 AM
As I posted in the Retail Therapy Thread, I just picked up the Spyderco Sharpmaker because I am a complete knife sharpening novice beyond using a steel on my kitchen knives. I made the purchase knowing fully that it may be a 90 % solution 90% of the time relative to other, particularly motorized systems.

My initial impressions are quite positive. I do concur that is does its best work at touching up/ maintaining and a knife that was 1/2 way sharp in the first place. I have be practicing on a cheapy Kershaw (Model 1445 with 8CR13MOV steel). It has gone from dull to barely cut typing paper sharp with a lot of work at both the 40 and 30 Degree settings. (hundreds of passes)

I "touched" up a SAK, a Spyderco Cat 10 and a CPMS 30V Native that was a WalMart Special way back in the day to thin legal pad paper slicing sharpness with relative ease (dozens of passes).


Questions:

1. Should my default setting be at 40 (20 a side) setting or the 30 (15 a side setting)? There is much conflicting info on to include from the master himself Sal G of Spyderco?

2. Any harm in just doing 10 passes a side with the white fine stones on the flats every day on the way out the door as I move thru the carry rotation


Before I start on a VG 10 Limited Edition Wave and my Clinch Pick, I thought it best to ask around a bit. I have watched a fair number of videos on line.

Any other nuggets of Sharpmaker wisdom are most appreciated.

My default is 40 (20R 20L) gray rod on the angle then repeat gray on the flat.
Then the same series with the white rods.

That's a full sharpen for me. But yeah why not short cut it for a touch up?

I often intend to. But then once I get started some sort of OCD kicks in and I have to go full cycle. ;)

critter
04-30-2020, 06:30 AM
The sharpie trick is very helpful. Use a sharpie to color the edge of your knife and then make 5-10 passes per side. Ideally you want to see shiny metal and the sharpie removed on the edge. If it’s not then your knife is ground wider than 20 and will need to be re-profiled to use a sharp maker.

Making ten passes really isn’t necessary every day unless you’re cutting a lot with it. Every time you use the stones it removes some metal. Granted it’s a small amount and you’ll likely never notice if you have multiple knives. If you wanted something for daily maintenance I would get a strop.


Nothing to add.. just bears repeating...

spyderco monkey
05-01-2020, 05:00 AM
I've been using the Spyderco Sharpmaker (and now the Gauntlet) as well as the Lansky V sharpeners for the last 15 or so years.

Suggestions:
-Use the 'countdown method' to sharpen.

5 passes on left side of blade, followed by 5 on the right side.

4 passes left, 4 passes right

....

1 pass left, 1 pass right

I found this more reliably produces a razor sharp edge then the factory suggested alternating 1:1 pass method.

For a new knife, I start at 10 strokes for the countdown to get the edge accustomed to the angle (20 degree) of the sharpener.

For subsequent maintainence, I start the countdown at 3-5. Thats usually plenty to restore a 'sharpish' - cuting paper, but roughly - edge to shaving sharp.

- I would not suggest over sharpening.

I use a simple test for when to sharpen, called 'the plastic test.'

A sharp knife should be able to cleanly cut the plastic film on a tissue box / case of water by simply dragging the tip across the plastic, using only the weight of the blade.

Once its no longer able to do that, I do a touch up. Typically for me thats around 1x a month.

RJ
05-01-2020, 09:57 AM
I have custom Benchmade partially serrated S30V Mini Barrage that was a gift such that I might default to sending that one in to Benchmade when the time comes to sharpen it given the serrations and black colored/engraved blade.



I've sent my Mini-Grip to Benchmade twice for their free sharpening service. I would say that, after learning a little bit more about knife sharpening, the edge that I can now put on it myself, using my inexpensive ($30) Work Sharp Guided Field Sharpener, surpasses the one that was on the blade when it returned from BM. And that includes the serrated part of my Mini-Grip. Bear in mind I am a complete noob to knife sharpening.

It would not surprise me that, as many knives as I am sure the sharpeners at BM do on a daily basis, that they put it in some kind of sharpening machine jig, give it a few strokes and call it good. The blade just look kind of "rough" (albeit, sharp) when they arrive back to me. Just an observation, and taking nothing away from Benchmade's service; it is free obviously.

5pins
05-01-2020, 09:29 PM
The Sharpmaker should be called the sharpkeeper. It does a great job of keeping a knife sharp but if it gets too dull then it can be a bear to sharpen up.
Be careful not to round off the tip. It seems to be a common problem with the Sharpmaker.

JCS
05-02-2020, 03:51 PM
Did you get there with the sharpmaker or another system? I get there with the Lansky. SCARY sharp!

That was done with a sharp maker with the UF rods and a strop.

md8232
05-02-2020, 11:52 PM
Is there any advantage to the Gauntlet if you already have a Sharpmaker?

blues
05-03-2020, 07:50 AM
Is there any advantage to the Gauntlet if you already have a Sharpmaker?

The Sharpmaker is more versatile because of the two angle settings available. However, if you have no coarser option, purchasing either the optional diamond or CBN rods for your Sharpmaker will make it more versatile.

https://www.amazon.com/Spyderco-Diamond-Triangle-Pair-204D/dp/B000WUKFBM/ref=sr_1_1?crid=2K76LC6VETF4H&dchild=1&keywords=spyderco+diamond+rods&qid=1588510358&s=sporting-goods&sprefix=spyderco+diamond+%2Csporting%2C203&sr=1-1

Or, more economical and quicker, would be to purchase a diamond plate from DMT or Ultra Sharp on amazon.com if you are comfortable doing the coarser work on a bench stone and finishing on the Sharpmaker.

https://www.amazon.com/DMT-D8C-Dia-Sharp-Continuous-Diamond/dp/B0001WP1L0/ref=sr_1_2?dchild=1&keywords=diasharp+double+sided&qid=1588511928&s=hi&sr=1-2

https://www.amazon.com/Ultra-Sharp-Diamond-Sharpening-2-sided/dp/B01FPGSZ7I/ref=sr_1_8?crid=1Z7SFFH7T6C89&dchild=1&keywords=ultrasharp+diamond+sharpening+stone&qid=1588510571&sprefix=ultrasharp+%2Csporting%2C188&sr=8-8

Either would broaden your options.

Navin Johnson
05-03-2020, 10:03 AM
OP:. Learning about bevels and edge angles will do you more good than tricks on the sharp maker per se.

If I gave you five knives at 30°, and five knives at 40°, I doubt you could tell the difference if you use them randomly.

Softer steels tend to do better with wider bevels .....harder steels can tolerate a thinner bevel without chipping or rolling.

Thinness behind the edge or in other words blade geometry does more for cutting than the actual edge does in most cases. Reasonably dull kitchen knives still cut fairly well because they're so thin.

10 passes on the whitestones everyday will just create a weak edge. If the steel has a tendency to roll you will just keep bending that rolled edge back and forth making it softer and weaker. You can get it lined up and it will be very sharp but the first cut into any type of tough material will roll the edge very quickly.

You need a 350 grit-ish diamond bench stone to set your bevels. (Lower angle than you want the cutting edge to be) then start to apex the edge at that grit or maybe one finer. Finish on the brown stones for an aggressive edge.... Go to white if you want a more refined edge.

Once the edge begins to apex on a 700 grit bench stone I move to the brown stones and make two or three passes per side and I'm done.

To touch up your blade and in the process remove the old weak steel..... Make three or four passes on one side with the brown stones until you raise a burr on the opposite side of the blade..... That burr is the old weak steel.... Then make about two passes on the burs side of the blade on the brown stones and you'll have a fresh edge. This method takes some feel and can vary with different steels but you can essentially put a new edge on the knife in about a minute or two

When I say edge apexing that means it's starting to get sharp for lack of a better way of explaining it. If you take a blade all the way to sharp at one grit and then do it again at another grit you will create a weak edge again. So you will need to remove the burr as described above.

The above mentioned countdown method works because you go back and forth so many times that you will eventually remove the weak steel. However your sharp maker rods will need to be cleaned after that one sharpening as they will be very loaded with metal. I like to use a diamond bench stone to do most of my metal removal so I don't have to clean the rods every time I sharpen a knife.

And yes the sharp maker rods need to be cleaned often. I usually put a little water or glass cleaner on them to help keep them from getting loaded with metal ....understanding they cut a bit slower with lube on them.

Watch cliff stamp videos on YouTube.... He's a very knowledgeable steel guy and sharpener guy.....his advice to cut into the stone to take off the old weak metal should only be done if you have a very damaged edge otherwise you remove a lot of steel and takes a long time to apex afterwards.

Sharpening is easy once you learn how to do it but it will take time to learn how to do it. A dull VG-10 knife can be re-beveled and sharpened in about 3 or 4 minutes with the tools and technique I mentioned above.

Have fun!

spyderco monkey
05-04-2020, 11:52 PM
Is there any advantage to the Gauntlet if you already have a Sharpmaker?

I have both, prefer the Gauntlet.

Much better stone profile, which I find makes it easier to sharpen, especially in terms of keeping the very tip of the knife super sharp.

vcdgrips
05-15-2020, 05:58 PM
Broke down and bought the ultra fine rods from Spyderco direct as they give a solid LEO/MIL/GOVT discount. Rather sharp knives have gotten even sharper. I now have a shaved patch on my left lower forearm.

I have been using the count down method (6-1) as well with success.

I would call the system a 95% solution/95% of the time presuming you started with decent knife steel that was not so dull that it would not draw blood. I am quite please. Thank you all.

mrozowjj
07-22-2020, 08:22 PM
I just got one of these and I can't get an edge worth a damn on anything with it. It's supposed to be fool-proof so I guess I'll put on my clown shoes because I spent a good 30 minutes with it and I think the edge might be worse than it was before. *sigh*

Navin Johnson
07-23-2020, 09:34 AM
I just got one of these and I can't get an edge worth a damn on anything with it. It's supposed to be fool-proof so I guess I'll put on my clown shoes because I spent a good 30 minutes with it and I think the edge might be worse than it was before. *sigh*

Use a sharpie and see if you are sharpening the edge.

What steel are you sharpening. I have a Gerber from the 70's that requires diamond stones to sharpen and hardly will hold an edge after much work.

Read my post above. If the primary cutting edge is set wide and you are using too narrow stone angle you are sharpening the shoulders and not the edge.

Use a sharpie.

BobM
07-23-2020, 11:13 AM
Use a sharpie and see if you are sharpening the edge.

What steel are you sharpening. I have a Gerber from the 70's that requires diamond stones to sharpen and hardly will hold an edge after much work.

Read my post above. If the primary cutting edge is set wide and you are using too narrow stone angle you are sharpening the shoulders and not the edge.

Use a sharpie.
Good point. I tried to sharpen a custom knife with my Sharpmaker and got nowhere. When I talked to the maker he told me the steel he used needed diamond stones. I took it to him and he took care of it with his Wicked Edge setup. I’ve since got a Lansky diamond set so I can maintain it myself.

mrozowjj
07-24-2020, 12:34 AM
Use a sharpie and see if you are sharpening the edge.

What steel are you sharpening. I have a Gerber from the 70's that requires diamond stones to sharpen and hardly will hold an edge after much work.

Read my post above. If the primary cutting edge is set wide and you are using too narrow stone angle you are sharpening the shoulders and not the edge.

Use a sharpie.

I tried a sharpie. I started with a knife with S30v and nada. I thought maybe it was too hard of a steel so I tried it again with some good old 1095 and again nothing.

I've taken knife making classes before and never had any issue putting a good edge on with a belt grinder but stones elude me. I tried plain old DMT stones, then some guided system then this and no dice. Even got a wharencliff to see if I can do it on an edge with no curve and man nada.

I think I'm going to buy that Ken onion edition work sharp thing.

blues
07-24-2020, 08:06 AM
I tried a sharpie. I started with a knife with S30v and nada. I thought maybe it was too hard of a steel so I tried it again with some good old 1095 and again nothing.

I've taken knife making classes before and never had any issue putting a good edge on with a belt grinder but stones elude me. I tried plain old DMT stones, then some guided system then this and no dice. Even got a wharencliff to see if I can do it on an edge with no curve and man nada.

I think I'm going to buy that Ken onion edition work sharp thing.

The Sharpmaker is best used for maintaining an already sharp or sharpish knife, imho. Reprofiling and serious steel removal are not its forte.
It is a very versatile tool, but it does have its limitations.

I find it useful to do the stock removal with coarse diamond hones and apply the finishing touches with the Sharpmaker if desired. I have a variety of bench stones in Aluminum Oxide, Sillcon Carbide, Diamond etc, as well as oil and water stones. Right tool for the right job.

A lot of folks seem to be happy with he Work Sharp. (I don't own any power tools for sharpening.)

JCS
07-25-2020, 11:05 AM
I tried a sharpie. I started with a knife with S30v and nada. I thought maybe it was too hard of a steel so I tried it again with some good old 1095 and again nothing.

I've taken knife making classes before and never had any issue putting a good edge on with a belt grinder but stones elude me. I tried plain old DMT stones, then some guided system then this and no dice. Even got a wharencliff to see if I can do it on an edge with no curve and man nada.

I think I'm going to buy that Ken onion edition work sharp thing.

What happened with the sharpie? Did it remove it off the actual edge or off of the shoulder of the knife? What type of knife was it?

The sharp maker cannot sharpen a knife that is ground wider than 20 degrees per side or 40 degrees per side without modifications to technique.

I'd bet all the knives have really wide bevels.

mrozowjj
07-25-2020, 05:06 PM
What happened with the sharpie? Did it remove it off the actual edge or off of the shoulder of the knife? What type of knife was it?

The sharp maker cannot sharpen a knife that is ground wider than 20 degrees per side or 40 degrees per side without modifications to technique.

I'd bet all the knives have really wide bevels.

Sharpie was removed where you'd want it to be removed.

Knives were a Benchmade Bugout (S30V) and a Ka-Bare Becker BK11 neck knife 1095 Cro-Van. Benchmade says 30-35 degree edge angle and well Sharpmaker only does 20 or 40 so I tried one and then the other with no luck.

blues
07-25-2020, 05:28 PM
Sharpie was removed where you'd want it to be removed.

Knives were a Benchmade Bugout (S30V) and a Ka-Bare Becker BK11 neck knife 1095 Cro-Van. Benchmade says 30-35 degree edge angle and well Sharpmaker only does 20 or 40 so I tried one and then the other with no luck.

Sharpmaker does 15 or 20 degrees per side (30 or 40 degrees included angle).

mrozowjj
07-25-2020, 05:44 PM
Sharpmaker does 15 or 20 degrees per side (30 or 40 degrees included angle).

Yeah that's right. Sorry for the mistake. Either way the rest is accurate.

Navin Johnson
07-25-2020, 07:09 PM
So try raising a burr and then cutting it off. Even on brown stones one should be able to raise a burr with 3-7 passes on the same side of the blade on a CLEAN or ONCE USED FLAT. If you can't get a burr you are not sharpening the edge.

If no burr then increase the angle. If you cannot tell there is a burr then drag the edge up your arm (spine towards your face) and you will feel the burr side scratching.

be very precise in your angles with your hand. If one is sloppy with the SM you will end up with a convex edge.

Only need a small burr to create a reasonable edge.

JCS
07-25-2020, 07:13 PM
Sharpie was removed where you'd want it to be removed.

Knives were a Benchmade Bugout (S30V) and a Ka-Bare Becker BK11 neck knife 1095 Cro-Van. Benchmade says 30-35 degree edge angle and well Sharpmaker only does 20 or 40 so I tried one and then the other with no luck.

I’m have a bugout and just sharpened it yesterday on a sharpmaker so I know it handles their s30v. If the sharpie is coming off the edge then it may just take a some more passes. I know it can be frustrating when it doesn’t work. Sharpening is tricky. In theory it seems simple. However, it can be difficult to figure it out.

TOTS
09-08-2020, 11:03 AM
be very precise in your angles with your hand. If one is sloppy with the SM you will end up with a convex edge.

Only need a small burr to create a reasonable edge.

For me this was the key. When I learned to keep a consistent vertical angle on the blade, I stopped rolling the edge. Even harder steels started sharpening up. (Looking at you, M4!)

spyderco monkey
09-10-2020, 07:43 PM
Something to keep in mind is the Factory Edge Angle.

Different manufacturers use different edge angles, and that can prevent a knife from being able to be sharpened on the sharpmaker.

For example, Benchmade used to (2003ish) ship their knives with a 25 degree (50 inclusive) edge. Not sure what they currently do.

https://static.wixstatic.com/media/20bfbc_b98dc5a923204cfa990bd82583f9dcfe~mv2.jpg/v1/fill/w_396,h_304,al_c,lg_1,q_90/20bfbc_b98dc5a923204cfa990bd82583f9dcfe~mv2.webp

As such, it was impossible to sharpen my old Griptillian on my Sharpmaker, which tops out at 40 degrees. I thought I sucked at sharpening until I emailed Benchmade and they quoted me their edge angle.

If you're not getting the knife sharp, thats the most likely culprit.

TOTS
09-11-2020, 11:06 PM
I have three Benchmade knives (Bugout and two Protagonists) made in the last 3 years or so and have no problems sharpening any of them using the 40 setting. Even at 50 degrees it shouldn’t be a big deal to reprofile the edge in about 20 strokes or so.

Seven_Sicks_Two
10-07-2020, 11:18 AM
I've had a Sharpmaker for 5 or 6 years and normally use it to tune up my edge quarterly or so. I don't chase "shaving sharp" with it, normally I call it good at "pretty damn sharp". Getting there has never really been an issue.

Recently, I pulled it out as I noticed the blade on my S35VN folder getting a little dull. I followed my usual routine, a few passes at medium, followed by a few passes at fine. The knife was worse than when I started. I jumped on youtube, watched a couple tutorials and tried again, still not sharp.

I've often heard it mentioned that the SM is good for tuning up an edge, but not necessarily great for reviving a very dull knife. Without running out and buying another sharpening system, what is my best bet here? Try again? Or just send the knife in to the manufacturer for factory sharpening?

blues
10-07-2020, 11:33 AM
I've had a Sharpmaker for 5 or 6 years and normally use it to tune up my edge quarterly or so. I don't chase "shaving sharp" with it, normally I call it good at "pretty damn sharp". Getting there has never really been an issue.

Recently, I pulled it out as I noticed the blade on my S35VN folder getting a little dull. I followed my usual routine, a few passes at medium, followed by a few passes at fine. The knife was worse than when I started. I jumped on youtube, watched a couple tutorials and tried again, still not sharp.

I've often heard it mentioned that the SM is good for tuning up an edge, but not necessarily great for reviving a very dull knife. Without running out and buying another sharpening system, what is my best bet here? Try again? Or just send the knife in to the manufacturer for factory sharpening?

Couple of questions...had you sharpened this knife on the Sharpmaker previously? In other words, do you know whether the bevel angle matches the angles the Sharpmaker offers?

You can do a couple of things. Color the bevel with a Sharpie pen and see where the Sharpmaker removes the ink. If it's high up on the shoulder of the bevel, or behind the edge, you'll need to remove some steel before the hone reaches the edge.

(You can also use a strip of newspaper on the ceramic rod and see if the edge bites into the paper on the 20 or 30 degree slot when you make a normal sharpening stroke. If it just slides down, the edge is more obtuse than the particular angle selected.)

If you need to remove some steel, try the technique shown here...up and down for several strokes, alternating on the brown rods...instead of one on one side, one on the other.

Much faster. Finish with single strokes after you get down to the actual edge. Don't even bother with the white rods for the S35VN. The slightly coarser edge will perform better, imho.


https://youtu.be/DI8lTj-F8gA

Seven_Sicks_Two
10-07-2020, 11:43 AM
My responses in red


Couple of questions...had you sharpened this knife on the Sharpmaker previously? In other words, do you know whether the bevel angle matches the angles the Sharpmaker offers? I've used the Sharpmaker probably 15-20 times on this knife at the 20 degree angle (40 inclusive) recommended by the knife manufacturer and never had an issue... which is why I'm so perplexed.

You can do a couple of things. Color the bevel with a Sharpie pen and see where the Sharpmaker removes the ink. If it's high up on the shoulder of the bevel, or behind the edge, you'll need to remove some steel before the hone reaches the edge. I'll give the sharpie trick a try

(You can also use a strip of newspaper on the ceramic rod and see if the edge bites into the paper on the 20 or 30 degree slot when you make a normal sharpening stroke. If it just slides down, the edge is more obtuse than the particular angle selected.)

I suppose the answer is going to be just taking another crack at it. Having a duller knife than when I started just sorta made me think I should quit while I was ahead (or at least not too far behind). Thanks for the recommendations.

blues
10-07-2020, 11:49 AM
My responses in red



I suppose the answer is going to be just taking another crack at it. Having a duller knife than when I started just sorta made me think I should quit while I was ahead (or at least not too far behind). Thanks for the recommendations.

Since you've sharpened on the 20* setting in the past, it shouldn't take too long to get your bevel back in shape. Try doing a minute or so up and down on one side, never taking the blade off the hone. Then the same thing on the other side...never taking it off the hone. Test the edge with some newspaper, on your fingernail or whatever medium you prefer.

Also, make sure the rods are clean and don't have a lot of buildup or the cutting action will be diminished.

If you want, you can buy the diamond or CBN rods for the system on amazon...if you need a more aggressive (roughly 400 grit) hone...but I bet you'll be okay with the brown rods.

Don't use a lot of pressure. Good luck. Looking forward to your results.

Wyoming Shooter
10-07-2020, 01:47 PM
What's the "best" way to clean the SM rods? I general put them in the sink with some Dawn detergent and/or hit them with scouring powder. This works okay but, I suspect there's a better technique. Thanks!

blues
10-07-2020, 02:03 PM
What's the "best" way to clean the SM rods? I general put them in the sink with some Dawn detergent and/or hit them with scouring powder. This works okay but, I suspect there's a better technique. Thanks!

Bar Keepers Friend works very well, primarily because of the oxalic acid that is part of the formula. We use that for any powdered cleanser tasks in the house and usually buy a few at a time online.

I generally use a gum eraser, or a rubberized German sanding block (medium to light grit) for quick removal of the swarf that accumulates...but a good scrub with Bar Keepers seems to be the best clean.

Anything will do a decent job because the gunk doesn't penetrate too deeply...kind of like lead from a pencil.

Wyoming Shooter
10-11-2020, 07:25 AM
Bar Keeper's Friend cleaned my SM rods thoroughly and quickly. Thanks for the tip!

Navin Johnson
10-11-2020, 09:30 AM
Soft cleanser or powdered Bar Keepers Friend?

Thanks

blues
10-11-2020, 09:49 AM
Soft cleanser or powdered Bar Keepers Friend?

Thanks

I've only ever used powdered, but I was unaware of the other version, truthfully.

Totem Polar
10-11-2020, 01:03 PM
blues, thanks for the video education. Quick Q: I have and original, late 80s (imagine that, me with 80s kit) sharpmaker with the single setting—which is 40 degrees, IIRC. This stuff is like higher math to this musician: how much of a disadvantage am I at with only the 40 degree setting?

Appreciate it, buddy, it’s an “I don’t know what I don’t know” thing on my end.

blues
10-11-2020, 01:18 PM
blues, thanks for the video education. Quick Q: I have and original, late 80s (imagine that, me with 80s kit) sharpmaker with the single setting—which is 40 degrees, IIRC. This stuff is like higher math to this musician: how much of a disadvantage am I at with only the 40 degree setting?

Appreciate it, buddy, it’s an “I don’t know what I don’t know” thing on my end.

I have one of the 90's vintage with only the 20 dps (degree per side) setting, (40 degrees included angle), and purchased one with dual slots some years later when available.

It really depends on what kind of bevels you have on the knife...since one primarily uses the Sharpmaker to closely match the existing bevel, as opposed to reprofiling. (It's not the world's best hone for removing a lot of steel if the edge is more obtuse than desired.)

I mostly use the 20 degree slots for a quick touch-up or a micro-bevel on a knife that is otherwise sharp but may have a burr or an anomaly along the edge that can be easily dealt with.

So, I don't think you "need" one unless you have a variety of knives with varying bevel angles...from thicker to thinner. If you are comfortable freehanding the blade to put on a coarse or rough edge, the twenty degree slot is a nice way of finishing or leaving that micro-bevel.

Tell me what you have and use for sharpening, and I'll be in a better position to recommend something for you...if interested.

JCS
10-11-2020, 01:35 PM
blues, thanks for the video education. Quick Q: I have and original, late 80s (imagine that, me with 80s kit) sharpmaker with the single setting—which is 40 degrees, IIRC. This stuff is like higher math to this musician: how much of a disadvantage am I at with only the 40 degree setting?

Appreciate it, buddy, it’s an “I don’t know what I don’t know” thing on my end.

Very little disadvantage if any IMO. I don’t ever use the 30 degree setting it’s really made for reprofiling and that job is better done using something else.

Totem Polar
10-11-2020, 01:52 PM
Tell me what you have and use for sharpening, and I'll be in a better position to recommend something for you...if interested.

Hell yeah, I’m interested. I never turn down free education.

I hope you’re sitting down. My sharpening arsenal consists of:

1. Original recipe sharpmaker
2. Even older, possibly late 70s, Schrade “honesteel.”
3. A cupboard filled with ceramic cups.
4. The industrial saw place on the way to the range
5. A pile of small USPS postage boxes to send stuff back to the maker.

Have I given you Forrest Whittaker eye yet? Now you know why I play classical music and like revolvers. I do have indoor plumbing though; I’m not a complete luddite.

blues
10-11-2020, 02:03 PM
Hell yeah, I’m interested. I never turn down free education.

I hope you’re sitting down. My sharpening arsenal consists of:

1. Original recipe sharpmaker
2. Even older, possibly late 70s, Schrade “honesteel.”
3. A cupboard filled with ceramic cups.
4. The industrial saw place on the way to the range
5. A pile of small USPS postage boxes to send stuff back to the maker.

Have I given you Forrest Whittaker eye yet? Now you know why I play classical music and like revolvers. I do have indoor plumbing though; I’m not a complete luddite.

Ha, ha. Nope...just a smile. (Which is a gift these days.)

So, bottom line is you don't have a coarse hone to work a dull knife with, or to reprofile.

For simplicity's sake I'd recommend a diamond hone if you are willing to put in a little time and effort on your freehanding skills. The payoff is that you don't have to be perfectly accurate because when you're finished on the diamond hone, a few licks on the Sharpmaker will finish your edge both in terms of refinement and setting the bevels to roughly the same angle. (As long as your freehand angle is at or lower than the 20 degrees per side, which is easy to accomplish.)

Gimme a couple minutes and I'll provide a link to something that shouldn't be too costly.

(Norton Crystolon and India are also alternatives, but they are oil stones and the diamond will work with anything without the mess.)

blues
10-11-2020, 02:09 PM
Okay...you could do a lot worse than this double sided diamond hone (https://www.amazon.com/Ultra-Sharp-Diamond-Sharpening-2-sided/dp/B01FPI7J6O/ref=sr_1_11?crid=1UO9I4YS2IJ59&dchild=1&keywords=ultrasharp+diamond+sharpening+stone&qid=1602443070&sprefix=ultrasharp+d%2Cindustrial%2C177&sr=8-11) which comes with a good base to hold the "stone".

The coarse side will make relatively short work of most of your sharpening needs, allowing you to set your bevels. The fine side will allow refinement if you want it, though "coarse" edges are in vogue again. But it gives you the option of finishing with a fine diamond finish or finishing on the ceramic...or on the coarse diamond which is good enough for most applications, in truth.

Price is right, too.

Totem Polar
10-11-2020, 02:17 PM
Okay...you could do a lot worse than this double sided diamond hone (https://www.amazon.com/Ultra-Sharp-Diamond-Sharpening-2-sided/dp/B01FPI7J6O/ref=sr_1_11?crid=1UO9I4YS2IJ59&dchild=1&keywords=ultrasharp+diamond+sharpening+stone&qid=1602443070&sprefix=ultrasharp+d%2Cindustrial%2C177&sr=8-11) which comes with a good base to hold the "stone".


Done. I’ve learned how to take “yes” for answer. :)

Thanks for the e-advice, E-dog, much appreciated.

blues
10-11-2020, 02:22 PM
Done. I’ve learned how to take “yes” for answer. :)

Thanks for the e-advice, E-dog, much appreciated.

Cool. I think it will serve you well. :cool: And it's my pleasure, brother.

When you get it, we can discuss the finer points of putting on an edge you'll be satisfied with.

Or before then, for that matter. It's not like we're allowed to go outside. ;)

Totem Polar
10-11-2020, 02:38 PM
Cool. I think it will serve you well. :cool: And it's my pleasure, brother.

When you get it, we can discuss the finer points of putting on an edge you'll be satisfied with.

Or before then, for that matter. It's not like we're allowed to go outside. ;)

Due in Tuesday. I’ll post back for more advice after the obligatory finger bloodletting that usually accompanies any purchase related to sharps in Chez Totem. :D

(I’m not kidding: I cut my finger lacing my boots this morning; for a guy that likes sharp objects, I sure have a lot of trouble getting along with them)

Lester Polfus
10-11-2020, 02:48 PM
I use toothpaste to clean the triangle stones for my Sharpmaker...

blues
10-11-2020, 03:00 PM
Totem Polar

To whet your appetite, here's a little video from my old friend and sometime nemesis, the late A.G. Russell on the basics of diamond hones. I think you'll find it useful.


https://youtu.be/61peii3gxM4

Totem Polar
10-11-2020, 03:08 PM
[MENTION=8451]

To whet your appetite, here's a little video from my old friend and sometime nemesis, the late A.G. Russell on the basics of diamond hones. I think you'll find it useful.


Dude talks like he’s stoned. Good info, though.

blues
10-11-2020, 03:10 PM
Dude talks like he’s stoned. Good info, though.

I think that was getting pretty close to the last year or two of his life. He was a legend in the business...and a bit of a character.

Totem Polar
10-11-2020, 03:35 PM
I think that was getting pretty close to the last year or two of his life. He was a legend in the business...and a bit of a character.

I got his mail order catalogs... back in middle school. A new one in the mail was a special day. Came to my dad’s place—since he had partial custody, per the thinking of the time, sometimes a new glossy catalog would be there when he picked me up.

Never met A.G. Or Goldie, for that matter.