Looking for 20 gauge suggetions

[jd950]

A family member asked me if I could recommend a "defense" load for a 20 gauge shotgun that he has. It is an 870 and I don't know barrel length or choke, but I could find out or probably get him a different barrel. Actually, I suppose it probably has interchangeable choke tubes.

He is not really a shooter, and I suspect recoil could be an issue with a "magnum" load. I know very little about 20 gauge capabilities; my experience has been limited to using light shot for training the kids to shoot clays a while back. Are there slug and/or buck choices that I could recommend to him for use in a defensive capacity? I did not ask, but I assume from his comments that he is talking about human and not animal threats.

Thanks.

[Duelist]

Just have him get 2-3 boxes of the same 2 3/4 inch #3 buck load, I prefer the Federal for no really articulable reason, maybe add a couple boxes of slugs, and a bunch of light birdshot. Use the birdshot to familiarize with shooting the gun and whatever practice he’s going to do, run a box of the buck to see how it patterns and spreads, and a box of slugs to see how they group. Then he can load up buck or slugs as is appropriate for his situation at home, and use the rest of the birdshot for practice, small game hunting, and pest control.

[diananike]

The 3” buckshot loads recoil quite a bit.
I think they probably have very similar horsepower to a 2 3/4” 12 gauge load.

Federal offers a copper plated #2 buckshot load in 3” 20 gauge unfortunately it recoils in my light 20gauge just as much as any 12 gauge full powered buckshot load.

Stick with the shorter buckshot loads to take advantage of the 20s soft shooting if your friend is at all recoil shy.

I have yet to find buckshot in 20 that patterns worth a damn

[peterb]

3” buckshot in a light 20 gauge was deep in my No Fun Zone the one time I tried it. 2 3/4” loads should be plenty. Also, if it’s an older 870 it may not have a 3” chamber.

Definitely get some light target loads for familiarization and practice.

[jd950]

3” buckshot in a light 20 gauge was deep in my No Fun Zone the one time I tried it. 2 3/4” loads should be plenty. Also, if it’s an older 870 it may not have a 3” chamber.

Definitely get some light target loads for familiarization and practice.

I agree, but I probably won't say much other than recommending something and suggesting he shoot it with the chosen load a bit to be familiar with it. Since he has the gun I would guess he has some familiarity with it. I think it is one of those "load it and keep it handy just in case" situations or maybe he just just have a box of shells available to load it up in an emergency....

Probably hunted quail with it or something in the past. I don't know him that well....wife's uncle that we don't see more than once or twice a year.

[RevolverRob]

They're all going to suck from a small-framed 870 without proper technique.

I wouldn't go 3" because you'll lose a full shell of capacity. Because ammo pickings are slim, whatever they can get and adjust the choke in the gun to shoot it (you can get shotgun chokes easier than buckshot right now). IF you can get an ammo choice the following buckshots are what I have used in for my wife's 870Y and they all work okay - some better than others -

Buckshot:

Federal Vital-Shok #3 (buffered and copper plated pellets) <- My First Choice
Spartan Ammunition #1 (9-pellets, non-buffered, non-plated pellets) <-My Second Choice
Remington Express #3
Winchester Super-X #3 (buffered)
Federal Power-Shok #3 (buffered)

Slugs:
Federal Tru-Ball 3/4-ounce slugs <- My First Choice
Brenneke KO 3/4-ounce slugs <- My Second Choice
Remington Slugger 3/4-ounce

____

In #3 buck sizes most of these shells are containing 15-17 pellets which is great, except most of them don't offer plated pellets, resulting in a lot of fliers out past 15-yards. With proper choke selection you can mitigate this to a degree, but you'll pretty much always get a pellet or three off of USPSA standard target at 25-yards.

The exception to this is the Federal Vital-Shok - which is the choice in 20-gauge in my opinion. The Spartan #1 shot is my second choice, because it is a 9-pellet load, so with proper choke selection you can keep all the pellets on a B8 at 25.

For recoil management - push-pull is mandatory for pump guns of any gauge -


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gq74aiXn1b4

[Gearqueer]

If your (edit)family member is asking you for advise I’d send him a couple links and be done with it. If he can’t do simple internet research like this himself he isn’t going to watch training videos and tune a load/ choke/side-saddle/and night vision setup that will make his home impenetrable to groups of ninjas who will, with uncommon valor, fight their way through shotgun blasts of birdshot. :)


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[Wendell]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_RjLcPF11Eo


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JhmiC6ogY-Y

[jd950]

If your (edit)family member is asking you for advise I’d send him a couple links and be done with it. If he can’t do simple internet research like this himself he isn’t going to watch training videos and tune a load/ choke/side-saddle/and night vision setup that will make his home impenetrable to groups of ninjas who will, with uncommon valor, fight their way through shotgun blasts of birdshot. :)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yeah, well, okay.

But FWIW, this is my wife's fairly elderly uncle. He has a 20 gauge shotgun. He knows what I do and my interests so he reached out to me for advice about what he should put in his gun for home protection. I am not going to send him links or tell him to research or to get a different gun or get training or whatever, and I really don't know much about the "capabilities" of a 20 gauge. I figured someone here would have good information on this and I would get some suggestions and pass it or them along. I have no idea if the guy will even go buy what I suggest to him...he may well just use whatever bird shot or whatever he has already, but I will have done what I was asked.

Based on the prior posts, I will suggest he get some Federal #3 buck.

[willie]

Use what you can find. Learning to operate the shotgun correctly is more important than load or choke, but if the barrel has choke tubes, install an improved cylinder or modified tube. You will not locate enough ammo to pattern loads.

Two pieces of critical advice: Clean chamber with 000 steel wool wrapped around a bristle brush. Then emphasize moving the slide or pump with speed and force. Slam it all the way back. Then slam it all the way forward. Moving it slowly is not slamming. Note the part about "all the way".

For some, slamming(my term)is counterintuitive. They may think that the 870 is fragile. They may think that it is a precise instrument. It is neither fragile nor precise. Babying it when operating the slide action can result in malfunction. When its cousin the 1100 is fired, the gas operated mechanism slams the action bars back and forth with more force than does the 870 user.

I am a life long 870 user. I shoot the gun with finesse. If operating a security 870 with buckshot in a defense situation, I would forego finesse and slam the hell out of it.

[Totem Polar]

Based on the prior posts, I will suggest he get some Federal #3 buck.

As others note, 2 3/4" #3 buck is the right answer to this particular question. I have a stash of the old Remington version—not because it’s the tactical hotness, but because I still own a couple of 20 gauge bird guns from my youth.

[jd950]

Use what you can find. Learning to operate the shotgun correctly is more important than load or choke, but if the barrel has choke tubes, install an improved cylinder or modified tube. You will not locate enough ammo to pattern loads.

Two pieces of critical advice: Clean chamber with 000 steel wool wrapped around a bristle brush. Then emphasize moving the slide or pump with speed and force. Slam it all the way back. Then slam it all the way forward. Moving it slowly is not slamming. Note the part about "all the way".

For some, slamming(my term)is counterintuitive. They may think that the 870 is fragile. They may think that it is a precise instrument. It is neither fragile nor precise. Babying it when operating the slide action can result in malfunction. When its cousin the 1100 is fired, the gas operated mechanism slams the action bars back and forth with more force than does the 870 user.

I am a life long 870 user. I shoot the gun with finesse. If operating a security 870 with buckshot in a defense situation, I would forego finesse and slam the hell out of it.

I don't mean this to be unduly harsh, and appreciate that you are trying to help, I guess, but did you actually read my original question or later comments?

I mean, why do you think I am looking for advice on how to run an 870 or that the guy I am trying to help is looking for such advice? It doesn't really matter, but I have used shotguns since the 70's and although first "trained" on an Ithaca 37, I began using the 870 for non-sporting purposes many, many years ago. Shotguns are increasingly uncommon in my line of work, except for firing less-lethal rounds, but I still have a few. They have been largely supplanted by rifles in my world, but I still like them. I can't say I have ever used an 870 with finesse, despite having one with me every work day for quite a few years.

I just don't know much about 20 gauge loads and that was really all I was asking.

[Hambo]

I did a quick search and 2 and 3 buck are available. I'd get some 5/8oz Win slugs as well, let him shoot them all, and he can pick what is most comfortable for him to shoot.

[314159]

To the OP: I will second Revolver Rob's recommendation. The Federal 2 3/4 inch #3 load is the top choice for a reasonably recoiling 20 gauge load in a light shotgun.

Long ago I went down the rabbit hole of the light kicking yet still effective 20 gauge buckshot load. Unless you have a really heavy (and preferably gas operated) shotgun it really is a bit of a non-starter for anything but the 2 3/4 shells.

The limitation of the 2 3/4 shell is effective range. The smaller pellets lose penetration badly beyond 10 or maybe 15 yards.

Patterns are a function of choke selection and plated/buffered pellets for all the loads.

In a typically sub 7 pound gun, the 3 inch loads kick more than most 12 gauges. Combine this with the superb selections available in low recoil 12 gauge shells and the whole point of a 20 gauge is lost. Of course, if a 20 is what you have then that's what you use.

I must admit the Spartan 9 pellet #1 buckshot load is appealing but I haven't really looked at it too much. I would appreciate any insights from users of this. Particularly regarding quality and patterns. Maybe it's time to chase that particular rabbit again.

If it helps the user's morale, the 2 3/4 #3 load is a duplicate of the M-79 grenade launcher buckshot load of the Vietnam era.

[Gearqueer]

Yeah, well, okay.

But FWIW, this is my wife's fairly elderly uncle. He has a 20 gauge shotgun. He knows what I do and my interests so he reached out to me for advice about what he should put in his gun for home protection. I am not going to send him links or tell him to research or to get a different gun or get training or whatever, and I really don't know much about the "capabilities" of a 20 gauge. I figured someone here would have good information on this and I would get some suggestions and pass it or them along. I have no idea if the guy will even go buy what I suggest to him...he may well just use whatever bird shot or whatever he has already, but I will have done what I was asked.

Based on the prior posts, I will suggest he get some Federal #3 buck.

Right on. I think there were some great responses to your original question. I was making a friendly joke about the other good (but beyond the scope) advise being added. Great info either way. It’s pretty cool you are helping out the old man. I’m sure he will appreciate it.

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[willie]

I don't mean this to be unduly harsh, and appreciate that you are trying to help, I guess, but did you actually read my original question or later comments?

I mean, why do you think I am looking for advice on how to run an 870 or that the guy I am trying to help is looking for such advice? It doesn't really matter, but I have used shotguns since the 70's and although first "trained" on an Ithaca 37, I began using the 870 for non-sporting purposes many, many years ago. Shotguns are increasingly uncommon in my line of work, except for firing less-lethal rounds, but I still have a few. They have been largely supplanted by rifles in my world, but I still like them. I can't say I have ever used an 870 with finesse, despite having one with me every work day for quite a few years.

I just don't know much about 20 gauge loads and that was really all I was asking.

My error in responding was that I made an assumption. I assumed that if you had to ask the question that you may not be informed on using shotguns for self defense, and I assumed that your friend was even less informed. I did do you the favor of not explaining that so called short shucking errors are really not short shucking but reflect a design error, and I spared you my describing reasons why in 870's the 20 gauge guns are less reliable than 12 gauge versions. Further, I was surprised that you did not search the question on the forum, because if you had done so, you would have found the very answers you asked. But I am an expert because I attended a chicken shit state training program a million years ago. I failed to detect that you also are an expert. Internet forums have many experts.

[jd950]

My error in responding was that I made an assumption. I assumed that if you had to ask the question that you may not be informed on using shotguns for self defense, and I assumed that your friend was even less informed. I did do you the favor of not explaining that so called short shucking errors are really not short shucking but reflect a design error, and I spared you my describing reasons why in 870's the 20 gauge guns are less reliable than 12 gauge versions. Further, I was surprised that you did not search the question on the forum, because if you had done so, you would have found the very answers you asked. But I am an expert because I attended a chicken shit state training program a million years ago. I failed to detect that you also are an expert. Internet forums have many experts.

1. I did do a search and from the thread titles I saw, nothing describing this. Perhaps I missed the thread. or perhaps the question/answer was buried in a thread with a different subject line. It was a simple question to which I was sure some folks would have the knowledge to share. Luckily, they did and I got the advice I was looking for.

2. I did not claim to be an expert. I simply tried to point out that I was pretty familiar with using the 870 and tried to explain that I wasn't asking for advice on running the gun. Sometimes, I get annoyed at people on the internet that don't read a question before posting, or simply choose to ignore the question and make comments unrelated to the topic of the conversation they barge into. Not that you necessarily were doing that.

3. I am sorry that your shotgun training was "chicken shit," I hope you can someday find better training on the guns, and enjoy that more.

3. Sensing derision and sarcasm in your last post, I was tempted to tell you to go and short shuck yourself, but taking the high road here, I accept your explanation that you jumped to an unfounded conclusion and I want to thank you for your attempt to educate me and for sharing your expertise and knowledge on the 870 and I hope you are safe and well in these difficult times.

Perhaps in the future I will need some help with an 870 and I hope you are available to give advice if that time comes.

[LtDave]

Another 20 Ga buckshot load worth trying is the Rio #1 buck. It does well in my 20 Ga Ithaca Deerslayer.
As previously mentioned, finding 20 Ga loads that pattern like Flite Control 12 Ga is going to be hard. A lot of development money has been spent on 12 Ga buckshot loads, 20 Ga not so much. Sadly, with all the low recoil 12 Ga buck around, the 20 Ga buck has become a red headed stepchild. I doubt we’ll see much improvement anytime soon.

[jd950]

Another 20 Ga buckshot load worth trying is the Rio #1 buck. It does well in my 20 Ga Ithaca Deerslayer.
As previously mentioned, finding 20 Ga loads that pattern like Flite Control 12 Ga is going to be hard. A lot of development money has been spent on 12 Ga buckshot loads, 20 Ga not so much. Sadly, with all the low recoil 12 Ga buck around, the 20 Ga buck has become a red headed stepchild. I doubt we’ll see much improvement anytime soon.

Yes, I agree. I never felt any need for a 20 gauge myself. It seemed to me that light 12 gauge loads could do anything a 20 could for birds. When the reduced recoil buck and slug stuff came out for non-sporting purposes, I was grateful and I guess made the 20 gauge even less relevant, and when I went to a gas auto 12 gauge for my personal use, that helped even more, which I really appreciated after I went through shoulder surgery. When camping in Wyoming or Montana I still usually have a shotgun handy, but now, for most non-sporting purposes, the shotgun has been largely replaced by 5.56 rifles. I have mixed feelings about that but my shoulder is happy that it is typically a rifle in the rack and not a 12 gauge.