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vaglocker
04-24-2020, 12:14 PM
So the Beretta 1301 thread has now cost me a bunch of money (just ordered one today). As far as optics I was thinking one of the Holosun circle/dot sites. If given the following choices, what would you choose and why? My use would mostly be from 0-25 yards. My gut says 65moa might be too big but want some input.


503c - aimpoint micro footprint 65moa circle

507c - rmr footprint 32moa circle

vcdgrips
04-24-2020, 12:33 PM
Edge of my lane.

It seems to me that if you have a Tier 1 shotgun, and it is your only one of this type, if you are going to have it for defensive purposes, it should have a Tier 1 optic.
That would counsel for Aimpoint.

If it is a plinker, get whatever you want.

Please let us know what you do and why you did it.

GyroF-16
04-24-2020, 12:48 PM
So the Beretta 1301 thread has now cost me a bunch of money (just ordered one today). As far as optics I was thinking one of the Holosun circle/dot sites. If given the following choices, what would you choose and why? My use would mostly be from 0-25 yards. My gut says 65moa might be too big but want some input.


503c - aimpoint micro footprint 65moa circle

507c - rmr footprint 32moa circle

Seems like there were some posts here (on P-F) a few months ago with someone using a (something)-MOA circle red dot, and they determined that the circle corresponded well to the pellet grouping from FliteControl shells out to at least 25 yds. If I had to guess, I think it was the 32 MOA circle.
It’s worth some searching, as that would be a cool application for a “circle-dot” RDS.

I have to confess that I’ve been trying to use that application to justify the expense of the new MRO with the “circle-dot” to replace my perfectly good “dot only” MRO on the 1301T.

Maple Syrup Actual
04-24-2020, 12:49 PM
I've always been a proponent of Shield sights so you can take my opinion with a grain of salt on that score if you like, but the SIS on the 8MOA dot+ring setting, I really like for shotguns.

vaglocker
04-24-2020, 01:07 PM
Edge of my lane.

It seems to me that if you have a Tier 1 shotgun, and it is your only one of this type, if you are going to have it for defensive purposes, it should have a Tier 1 optic.
That would counsel for Aimpoint.

If it is a plinker, get whatever you want.

Please let us know what you do and why you did it.

5 years ago I would have agreed with you, but the Holosun products have really surprised me. I've been experimenting with them over the past couple of years and they seem to be holding up fine. I've ran one pretty hard on a handgun with excellent results to the point I don't see myself buying anymore RMRs. Of course the shotgun is a different animal but I've been convinced of their durability on handguns and rifles.



Seems like there were some posts here (on P-F) a few months ago with someone using a (something)-MOA circle red dot, and they determined that the circle corresponded well to the pellet grouping from FliteControl shells out to at least 25 yds. If I had to guess, I think it was the 32 MOA circle.
It’s worth some searching, as that would be a cool application for a “circle-dot” RDS.

I have to confess that I’ve been trying to use that application to justify the expense of the new MRO with the “circle-dot” to replace my perfectly good “dot only” MRO on the 1301T.

Hmm, I haven't really paid attention to the MRO since they came out because I had plenty of Aimpoints, but was unaware of they offered a circle/dot reticle. I'll have to look into that as well.

Dennis
04-24-2020, 01:45 PM
... the circle corresponded well to the pellet grouping from FliteControl shells out to at least 25 yds. If I had to guess, I think it was the 32 MOA circle...

My Benelli M4 patterns around 7" at 25Y with LE132 00B FliteControl. That roughly translates to 28 MOA so I can see how a circle dot would work. I have both but in the end I'm really a dot only guy and run a T1 on my duty Benelli where I run both OOB and slugs.

Dennis.

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andre3k
04-24-2020, 03:00 PM
Edge of my lane.

It seems to me that if you have a Tier 1 shotgun, and it is your only one of this type, if you are going to have it for defensive purposes, it should have a Tier 1 optic.
That would counsel for Aimpoint.

If it is a plinker, get whatever you want.

Please let us know what you do and why you did it.

Just sold one of my RMR's for two more 507C's. I have total confidence in mine.

Claybuster
04-24-2020, 06:48 PM
I put a 507c on my Benelli M4, it was just laying around and I figured I’d try it, I doubt I’ll be taking it off the circle dot is prefect for my needs on the shotgun.

DamonL
04-25-2020, 08:25 PM
My Benelli M4 patterns around 7" at 25Y with LE132 00B FliteControl. That roughly translates to 28 MOA so I can see how a circle dot would work. I have both but in the end I'm really a dot only guy and run a T1 on my duty Benelli where I run both OOB and slugs.

Dennis.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200424/71dfbc1f7d69d4a604bce63317d72a87.jpg

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Are the Benelli M4’s doing well in police service?

Dennis
04-25-2020, 10:21 PM
They need more maintenance than an AR to include occasional piston cleaning (~1000rds), kept very clean, and definitely lubed. Luckily the vast majority of our Benelli M4s are personally owned so guys can maintain them better.

Oh, and BTW, it is a pain to qualify with them using slugs to 50Y from sitting, kneeling, and prone.

Dennis.



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DamonL
04-26-2020, 12:30 PM
If you search on this site there has been a lot of good discussion on the Benelli M4. I was always curious what pros and cons there were that would come to light with a large deployment.

Your description of requiring maintenance seems to me to explain differences in opinion on the M4. Position shooting with slugs has got to be a painful experience especially in prone.

To get back on topic. I have an Aimpoint H1 to experiment with on a Beretta 1301. I think any dot sight makes it so much easier to place slugs on target.

Snapshot
04-26-2020, 12:36 PM
Is it possible / advisable to put an Aimpoint PRO-type optic on a Mossberg 590?

mrozowjj
04-26-2020, 02:51 PM
My Benelli M4 patterns around 7" at 25Y with LE132 00B FliteControl. That roughly translates to 28 MOA so I can see how a circle dot would work. I have both but in the end I'm really a dot only guy and run a T1 on my duty Benelli where I run both OOB and slugs.

Dennis.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200424/71dfbc1f7d69d4a604bce63317d72a87.jpg

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I can see the pros and cons of the circle dot; use the dot to aim but knowing that your spread is going to be contained within the circle might be beneficial for some low probability hits; i.e. the classic hostage where the only thing exposed is the bad guy's head. On the other hand it is a bit more cluttered.

Dennis
04-26-2020, 03:13 PM
I can see the pros and cons of the circle dot; use the dot to aim but knowing that your spread is going to be contained within the circle might be beneficial for some low probability hits; i.e. the classic hostage where the only thing exposed is the bad guy's head. On the other hand it is a bit more cluttered.

Assuming your smooth bore buckshot will be inside any circle is a huge assumption and risk especially for any sort of precise shot.

Learn your weapon and your own capabilities through training. Every situation will be different but I believe in software over hardware.

Dennis.



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mrozowjj
04-26-2020, 03:17 PM
Assuming your smooth bore buckshot will be inside any circle is a huge assumption and risk especially for any sort of precise shot.

Learn your weapon and your own capabilities through training. Every situation will be different but I believe in software over hardware.

Dennis.



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I didn't mean you'd assume that. I meant if you try it out on your gun with whatever loads your using and you can document that the group is always smaller than the 32moa ring at the distances you shoot at it can be an additional date point to use should you need it.

Dennis
04-27-2020, 12:24 AM
I didn't mean you'd assume that. I meant if you try it out on your gun with whatever loads your using and you can document that the group is always smaller than the 32moa ring at the distances you shoot at it can be an additional date point to use should you need it.

In my experience even FliteControl usually throws at least one pellet if not more in a random direction once you get past 10Y. Using a circle to do anything other than get a rough estimate of your POA with a smoothbore weapon is hazardous at best. I see your point and offer that a circle could be easier to see and place on a close target than a dot. However I would never use it to define any repeatable buckshot pattern.

Dennis.


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WobblyPossum
04-27-2020, 08:30 AM
In my experience even FliteControl usually throws at least one pellet if not more in a random direction once you get past 10Y. Using a circle to do anything other than get a rough estimate of your POA with a smoothbore weapon is hazardous at best. I see your point and offer that a circle could be easier to see and place on a close target than a dot. However I would never use it to define any repeatable buckshot pattern.

Dennis.


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Which load are you taking about? The 9 pellet 00 loads tend to always have that ninth pellet flier. The 8 pellet load hasn’t exhibited this in my experience. I have no experience with the 1B load that’s now out of production.

Dave J
04-27-2020, 08:42 AM
Is it possible / advisable to put an Aimpoint PRO-type optic on a Mossberg 590?

I've seen it done, but haven't shot one in that configuration, so I can't really offer a fully informed opinion on it.

The PRO body fits into a 30mm scope ring, which will get it lower than any of the QD mounts. With that, all you need is a bit of rail on the receiver. I'd suggest using a Magpul stock so you can easily add a cheek riser. I'd also select a picatinny scope ring rather than Weaver, since it will interface more securely with the rail.

Dennis
04-27-2020, 09:44 AM
Which load are you taking about? The 9 pellet 00 loads tend to always have that ninth pellet flier. The 8 pellet load hasn’t exhibited this in my experience. I have no experience with the 1B load that’s now out of production.

Yes, exactly. LE132 00B 9 pellet. Good to hear I'm not the only one!

Dennis.







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mrozowjj
04-27-2020, 11:37 AM
In my experience even FliteControl usually throws at least one pellet if not more in a random direction once you get past 10Y. Using a circle to do anything other than get a rough estimate of your POA with a smoothbore weapon is hazardous at best. I see your point and offer that a circle could be easier to see and place on a close target than a dot. However I would never use it to define any repeatable buckshot pattern.

Dennis.


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You're really hammering home why I don't like shotguns; there are very few situations where a shotgun excels when compared to a rifle and those situations mostly involve hunting which I don't do.

Dennis
04-27-2020, 11:49 AM
You're really hammering home why I don't like shotguns; there are very few situations where a shotgun excels when compared to a rifle and those situations mostly involve hunting which I don't do.

You are absolutely correct! I believe shotguns are a specialty weapon that require extra training to run competently in today's world. Of course they have been used successfully countless times in your average 0.001% home defense case as would anything in the hands of a determined defender. But we are all talking about higher level competent trained defense here and I think shotguns present more needs on top of rifle training.

However if you need the few advantages a shotgun provides, they are worth the extra work.

Dennis.



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