Secrets of the Houston Warehouse

[okie john]

In response to this thread/threat


When a "PDW" ken/barbie thread is the most serious gun discussion currently gaining legs, it’s time for all hands on deck. Don’t make me break out my back catalog of Fudd topics. I swear to God, I’ll f*cking do it, man...

I give you https://precisionrifleblog.com/2013/10/18/secrets-of-the-houston-warehouse-lessons-in-extreme-rifle-accuracy/

Short version: A precision shooter in Houston bought a warehouse that had a 325-yard straight-away and turned it into a precision shooting laboratory that had no wind, no mirage, no rain, and unwavering light. For the next six years, he and a crew of other shooters went DEEP into the mechanics of precision rifle shooting.


They were able to shrink 100 yard five-shot groups that started in the 0.2-0.3” range down “in the zeros” to an unbelievable 0.025”

Key learning that's (maybe) applicable to us:
…no advice he learned was more valuable than this: a barrel MUST be 21 3/4” long for optimum accuracy. That precise length sets up a vibration pattern that duplicates well from shot to shot.

The link summarizes what they learned, but the entire article is a good look at precision rifles and at what it takes to run a sorta-legal clandestine rifle range in the middle of a huge American city.


Okie John

[Totem Polar]

This... is awesome.

[OlongJohnson]

I found that an interesting read several years ago. Link through to download the PDF.

He never did give up the final secret that he claims shrunk his groups from 0.035 to 0.025.

The key takeaway I got from it was that, although he could do very impressive things in the lab, the guy still got beaten at matches by people who were better at the overall shooting game (reading wind, etc.) in the field.

I should probably read it again.

[BN]

I remember reading about that. Pretty cool read since I'm going down the 22 rimfire long range rabbit hole. ;)

I would welcome some Fudd threads. The Derp is getting pretty thick at Pistol-Forum. :(

[BobM]

My grandpa had a subscription to Precision Shooting back then. I remember reading about the warehouse then.

[peterb]

Neat. I just downloaded and skimmed the article.

The “magic barrel length” seems odd. It’s hard to believe that there’s a single optimum for all barrel weights, contours and materials, and for all loads.

[Borderland]

Never seen it. I got into the precision game a few years ago. Built my own rifle and compete at my less than stellar level against myself. Nobody I know has the interest and we don't have a range set up for it. I would like to shoot past 300 but that is just out of the question where I live. I'll give it a read but it seems like a controlled environment which nobody actually shoots in.

[Borderland]

Neat. I just downloaded and skimmed the article.

The “magic barrel length” seems odd. It’s hard to believe that there’s a single optimum for all barrel weights, contours and materials, and for all loads.

Custom barrel makers would agree with you. It depends on what you want to do with the rifle. Not everyone wants to shoot in a warehouse. This gets into barrel weights and contours.



https://riflebarrels.com/a-look-at-the-rigidity-of-benchrest-barrels/

[Lost River]

Neat. I just downloaded and skimmed the article.

The “magic barrel length” seems odd. It’s hard to believe that there’s a single optimum for all barrel weights, contours and materials, and for all loads.



In context, optimal may mean for that cartridge, bullet weight, and charge range, in this case. If you were shooting a .338 Edge, with a Berger 300 grain OTM hybrid projectile, things may be different.

[BigD]

Never seen it. I got into the precision game a few years ago. Built my own rifle and compete at my less than stellar level against myself. Nobody I know has the interest and we don't have a range set up for it. I would like to shoot past 300 but that is just out of the question where I live. I'll give it a read but it seems like a controlled environment which nobody actually shoots in.

Is it too much to ask to read the article before commenting on it?

Yes, it's a control environment. That's the point. If you can eliminate a variable (wind), then that's one less thing to wonder if it's impacting your group size. Conditions are (virtually) the same indoors day in and day out. If you change something after a session and the next time your group is bigger (or smaller), you can know that it's what you changed that made the difference. Not that the wind wasn't shifting as much that day. (The shooters were experienced enough that it probably wasn't user error that made a difference.)

No one shoots in a controlled environment like that (outside of smallbore competitions), but if you can't figure out how to shoot tight groups indoors, you aren't going to hold a tight groups outdoors either.

[SecondsCount]

I remember when I first read that and thought I was going to learn some secrets, but it just turned out to be a cool story.

You will hear all kinds of different theories as to what gives the best accuracy. I've always found that a quality barrel and bullets were the biggest contributor. We can talk about 1/2" groups at 100 but at a benchrest match that won't get you in the top half of the shooters.

If I'm shooting at a silhouette at 500 yards, I can probably get away with some 55 FMJ reloads, but a 10" plate at 1000 yards and things get very serious.

There are a group of guys here that hang golf balls at 500 meters and shoot them with their benchrest rifles. Wind is still a big factor, and they shoot early when it is calm, but if you aren't shooting a rifle and loads that can stay under .2 MOA, don't show up.

[okie john]

I remember when I first read that and thought I was going to learn some secrets, but it just turned out to be a cool story.

You will hear all kinds of different theories as to what gives the best accuracy. I've always found that a quality barrel and bullets were the biggest contributor. We can talk about 1/2" groups at 100 but at a benchrest match that won't get you in the top half of the shooters.

If I'm shooting at a silhouette at 500 yards, I can probably get away with some 55 FMJ reloads, but a 10" plate at 1000 yards and things get very serious.

There are a group of guys here that hang golf balls at 500 meters and shoot them with their benchrest rifles. Wind is still a big factor, and they shoot early when it is calm, but if you aren't shooting a rifle and loads that can stay under .2 MOA, don't show up.

A lot of what's in that article was probably relevant in the 80s. The GWOT has since funneled massive private and public funding into long range shooting and the entire game has changed. Benchrest is now to precision rifle shooting what bullseye is to IDPA.

In the mean time, I'm just doing what I can to keep Sidheshooter from busting out his back catalog of Fudd topics.


Okie John

[Borderland]

Is it too much to ask to read the article before commenting on it?

Yes, it's a control environment. That's the point. If you can eliminate a variable (wind), then that's one less thing to wonder if it's impacting your group size. Conditions are (virtually) the same indoors day in and day out. If you change something after a session and the next time your group is bigger (or smaller), you can know that it's what you changed that made the difference. Not that the wind wasn't shifting as much that day. (The shooters were experienced enough that it probably wasn't user error that made a difference.)

No one shoots in a controlled environment like that (outside of smallbore competitions), but if you can't figure out how to shoot tight groups indoors, you aren't going to hold a tight groups outdoors either.

Well, sign me up so I can figure out how to shoot tight groups in a warehouse. :D Plenty of people figure it out without shooting in a warehouse first.

[willie]

Sierra, Speer, and other companies have been testing load combinations in massive barreled actions attached to concrete foundations sunk to great depths. These activities have occurred over many decades. I would enjoy hearing conversations between these guys and the folks at the Houston facility. After admitting not being a ballistician, statistician, shoottician, mortician, or bullshittician, I say that they presume to state that.........

[BigD]

Well, sign me up so I can figure out how to shoot tight groups in a warehouse. :D Plenty of people figure it out without shooting in a warehouse first.

No one ever said have to shoot indoors to in a warehouse before you can shoot outdoors. Jeez. Are you thick?

Read the article. You don't have to comment on every damn thread, especially when you won't bother to read the article in question.

[Borderland]

No one ever said have to shoot indoors to in a warehouse before you can shoot outdoors. Jeez. Are you thick?

Read the article. You don't have to comment on every damn thread, especially when you won't bother to read the article in question.

Elevation and windage. ;)