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ErnieB
05-17-2012, 11:37 AM
Okay.... I know you all have heard this before..."my Glock shoots left..."

I picked up an old Glock that I haven't shot for a while and took it to the range yesterday. I shot great groups with it but they were all about 2" at 9 o'clock. Now before I get the trigger control..technique responses hear me out. This is not the first Glock I have had this issue with. In fact, this is probably the third gun (all Gen 3) that I have witnessed this. To zero the gun I had to move the rear sight way right in the notch. Now it shoots fine. The other Glock 17 I had with me shoots great and the rear sight is centered in the notch. Does it bother me? Well.... not really....okay...kinda' I guess... hence my post. I am more interested in learning why some guns come through this way and if there is anything to be done. Is it a lock up/locking block issue?

EMC
05-17-2012, 10:16 PM
Okay.... I know you all have heard this before..."my Glock shoots left..."

I picked up an old Glock that I haven't shot for a while and took it to the range yesterday. I shot great groups with it but they were all about 2" at 9 o'clock. Now before I get the trigger control..technique responses hear me out. This is not the first Glock I have had this issue with. In fact, this is probably the third gun (all Gen 3) that I have witnessed this. To zero the gun I had to move the rear sight way right in the notch. Now it shoots fine. The other Glock 17 I had with me shoots great and the rear sight is centered in the notch. Does it bother me? Well.... not really....okay...kinda' I guess... hence my post. I am more interested in learning why some guns come through this way and if there is anything to be done. Is it a lock up/locking block issue?

It's not you, I know you can shoot. There was an eariler thread (Didn't come up on the search for me) that mentioned either barrel/slide concentricity or the slide lock (take down one, not the release) or slide lock spring being the culprit. If you look straight down the barrel from the front I bet you can even see some evidence of it, if not, maybe replace the slide lock parts and see if it helps. That's what I remember reading. The SME's can chime in if I'm off base.

There were some pictures comparing barrels and you could literally see the edge of the muzzle being thinner on one side and thicker on the other.

ErnieB
05-17-2012, 11:12 PM
Thanks bro'.

I didn't get anything to come in a search but I will give it another go. Was the jist that the problem can be rectified with replacement parts or was it a "just deal with it" kind of thing?

EMC
05-17-2012, 11:26 PM
Thanks bro'.

I didn't get anything to come in a search but I will give it another go. Was the jist that the problem can be rectified with replacement parts or was it a "just deal with it" kind of thing?

Seems like I remember from the thread most folks pushing the rear sight to the right edge like you've done. If you have another glock of the same model it would be interesting to swap the barrel and see if it centers your POI.

EMC
05-17-2012, 11:48 PM
It bothers me that I cant find that thread. It was full of good info about this exact topic.

YVK
05-18-2012, 12:52 AM
This must be a Utah thing, both of mine also shoot left.

rsa-otc
05-18-2012, 05:05 AM
The thread you are looking for is called Trigger Finger Placement vs Grip under Marksmanship.

JV_
05-18-2012, 05:56 AM
My late Gen3 19 and all of my Gen4 19s (3 of them) all shot far left.


Seems like I remember from the thread most folks pushing the rear sight to the right edge like you've done. If you have another glock of the same model it would be interesting to swap the barrel and see if it centers your POI.

http://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?1959-Are-Gen4-s-still-shooting-to-the-left

EMC
05-18-2012, 07:16 AM
My late Gen3 19 and all of my Gen4 19s (3 of them) all shot far left.



http://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?1959-Are-Gen4-s-still-shooting-to-the-left

Thank you for finding that.

cgcorrea
05-18-2012, 07:27 AM
My late Gen3 19 and all of my Gen4 19s (3 of them) all shot far left.



http://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?1959-Are-Gen4-s-still-shooting-to-the-left

My Gen 3 G17 RTF manufactured mid 2010 does as well. It took a while for me to be convinced that it wasn't me though. I had the rear sight drifted to the right some and now it's right on. My Gen 3 G19 manufactured in May of last year is displaying this as well, although to a lesser degree. This has been comfirmed on both guns, by a couple different competent pistol shooters.

VolGrad
05-18-2012, 08:28 AM
To zero the gun I had to move the rear sight way right in the notch. Now it shoots fine.
Interesting. On most of the 6 GLOCKs I currently own I've had to drift the rear almost the right edge to zero. I thought it was me. All other handguns I own (from other makers) are pretty much dead center of the dovetail on the rear sight.

orionz06
05-18-2012, 08:56 AM
Might be worth a read. (http://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?3925-Trigger-finger-placement-vs-Grip) My inconsistent issues are 100% consistent in that I can print a 1" group at 10-15 yards, just a few inches to the left when I am screwing things up. Unfortunately there are several possible solutions, some of them contradictory.


I have installed 5 sets of Glock sights in recent weeks for various people and none of them have had issues with the rear sight perfectly centered nor have I seen one that required that much of a shift.

One way to see what the problem is to shoot the gun right hand supported, left hand supported, RHO, and then LHO. If they are not the same center the sights and attempt to solve each problem individually (though the solution might be semi-universal). Another trick is to shoot one single shot, at 5 yards. This should be easy. Use the bullet hole as a point of aim for shot #2. Use hole #2 for POA for shot #3. If there is horizontal stringing something is up. Repeat the RHS, LHS, RHO, LHO and you should note some sort of a pattern.

VolGrad
05-18-2012, 08:59 AM
Another trick is to shoot one single shot, at 5 yards. This should be easy. Use the bullet hole as a point of aim for shot #2. Use hole #2 for POA for shot #3. If there is horizontal stringing something is up. Repeat the RHS, LHS, RHO, LHO and you should note some sort of a pattern.
That's good advice right there.

ErnieB
05-18-2012, 11:14 AM
Please don't take this as being arrogant but I have pretty much taken the "it's me" factor out of the equation. I own several Glocks and only have this probably with one of them. I have experienced this with a few others that I have owned. I'm sure it's the gun. My question is what is the mechanical issue that is causing the inconsistency? I have read that it might be the take down lever or the locking block. I plan on swapping parts a bit to see what happens. Is there any way to remedy the issue? The gun I am having the problem with is relatively new (less than 4000 rounds). I have a new G17 on order but it seems that there is no guarantee that I won't have the same issue with the new gun. I have also noticed that wear on the left side if the locking block is much more noticeable than the right side. I guess that would mean that the left side is slightly higher and making more surface contact. Could this be the issue? If so, would lapping that side until wear is even cause more equal lock up? At this point I am pretty much guessing..:D

rsa-otc
05-18-2012, 07:11 PM
It's astonishing the amount of info you can get when you have a good looking personable 22 year old daughter folks like to talk to. In the last week she has had conversations with a GM/DM and a well respected local instructor/FFL who holds several shooting records about what gun she should buy for her first handgun. Both had these observations about the Glock.

GM/DM the shape of the bottom rear of the Glock grip causes him to naturally point the weapon high. He needs to break his wrist lock to bring gun on target. This also causes others to shoot high left, not everyone just some. This went into the old data bank.

Last night talking to the other instructor/FFL, "Glocks a good gun, but I don't recommend it for most people. The shape (hump) of the bottom rear of the grip interacts with the meat of the lower part of the palm causing the gun to shoot left or high left. When you tighten the lower two fingers of your right hand the meaty muscle in the lower part of the hand pushes on the bottom hump of the grip and causes the gun muzzle to move left and for some up." He then got a glock out and having her manipulate the gun replicate the problem. HMMMMMMM another data point.

I mentioned in another thread Glocks shooting left seems to be a common problem, one I didn't have an answer for since I rarely have had the oppurtunity to instruct people with Glocks. I mused that was there someting different about the Glock design that caused this problem. The 2 cases I have recently come accross I was able to correct the problem with trigger finger placement. In both cases the shooters shot XDs, Gen 3 S&W's and 1911's with no issues, only when they switched to Glocks did the problem arrise.

Did my rearranging the trigger finger placement change how the bottom of their hand interacted with the bottom of the Glock grip? A few people in such discussions commented on how changing the trigger finger placement temporarly corrected the issue. After they got comfortable with the new trigger finger placement did they then start tightening the lower two fingers again?

Could this be the problem? If you compare the Glock Grip to an XD, M&P, straight back strap 1911's there is definately a differance.

JV_
05-18-2012, 07:16 PM
Could this be the problem? If you compare the Glock Grip to an XD, M&P, straight back strap 1911's there is definately a differance.For some people, sure, but it's not the problem with my guns.

ErnieB
05-19-2012, 11:24 PM
Well.... it turns out I have more issues with this particular Glock.. sigh...

I ran it today in an IDPA match and had three malfunctions. All failure to eject. I also noticed it is a "P" prefix serial #. I am sort of new to all the Glock extractor/ejector issues as all my old Glocks have run trouble free. So begins the re-education on what Glocks actually run. I know there are countless threads on this subject so I am going to dive in. I want a new G34 but I am a little nervous about plinking down the cash as I'm not sure what to look for on a new Glock to make sure I am going to get one that will run. A few hours on this forum and I will hopefully have a better understanding. Frustrating...

On another note... I ran Dawson Precision adjustable sights on it with the rear sight favoring the right side of the dovetail. It looks goofy but it shot great when it didn't choke.

EMC
05-19-2012, 11:36 PM
Well.... it turns out I have more issues with this particular Glock.. sigh...

I ran it today in an IDPA match and had three malfunctions. All failure to eject. I also noticed it is a "P" prefix serial #. I am sort of new to all the Glock extractor/ejector issues as all my old Glocks have run trouble free. So begins the re-education on what Glocks actually run. I know there are countless threads on this subject so I am going to dive in. I want a new G34 but I am a little nervous about plinking down the cash as I'm not sure what to look for on a new Glock to make sure I am going to get one that will run. A few hours on this forum and I will hopefully have a better understanding. Frustrating...

On another note... I ran Dawson Precision adjustable sights on it with the rear sight favoring the right side of the dovetail. It looks goofy but it shot great when it didn't choke.

Assuming it is a recent production gen 3 9mm, some have had the 336 ejector replaced with a 30274 ejector. This hasn't solved the issues in every case I've read about but it's something to consider.

ErnieB
05-20-2012, 12:47 AM
The gun is about a two years old.

It's a Gen 3 G34 by the way.

dickmadison
05-22-2012, 10:47 PM
This is all interesting. On 2 of my glocks i have no issues but on another one, I have the same issue. The sight must be shifted right off center of the slide to shoot straight. I've had 4 people shoot it, plus the owner and head of a well known instruction school and they all had the same results as me...LEFT. I asked him about it, and he said to just drift the sight the right and that he has seen much worse than what my gun did where the sight had to be drifted all the way to the right of the slide. Below, is where my sight needs to be to shoot straight.

AHH for once I actually took a good picture and have no idea how to get the picture in here, sorry. Anyway it had to be drifted far right.

Packy
05-23-2012, 03:29 AM
My experience with glocks, it is not a matter of the sight/s, but a matter of the connectors having horrible overtravel that contributes on the shooting left of my glocks.

Cool Breeze
05-31-2012, 12:24 PM
here is mine. It shoots POA/POI at this setting. Its definitely drifted to the right. My other glocks are much more centered.


https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-73pweEAXgcM/T8eo1me-6PI/AAAAAAAAABg/o3L5YauR3cs/w333-h591-k/2012-05-22_23-37-14_709.jpg

JV_
05-31-2012, 12:26 PM
Yep, IIRC, that looks pretty close to mine.

Cool Breeze
05-31-2012, 12:29 PM
I've had 2 other people shoot it that are great shots and both shoot it straight at this setting. I just let it be and it seems to work fine.

ErnieB
05-31-2012, 05:12 PM
One of mine is the same way. What causes this?

ErnieB
06-11-2012, 10:02 AM
Put close to 600 rounds through my new "old" G34 this weekend. There is a difference. The rear sight is centered in the notch, the gun shoots straight and extracts and ejects with every type of ammo I fed it. I really regret selling off my old Glocks. My "p" series G34 is definitely not of the same quality as the old gun.

jumpthestack
06-11-2012, 11:12 AM
For those who shifted their sights, what happens if you shoot with your weak hand? Does it still hit at POA?

shootability
06-13-2012, 05:30 PM
I am cross eye dominant I have to adjust two inches right for all hand guns.

JBP55
06-13-2012, 07:11 PM
I am cross eye dominant I have to adjust two inches right for all hand guns.

Basically the same for me and a bad back/neck.

cgcorrea
07-22-2012, 05:30 PM
I just purchased a 1994 made gen 2 G19 a couple of weeks ago and replaced the stock sights with Ameriglo Defoors with the rear centered. Yesterday I shot it for the first time and it was shooting way left. I was getting nice one-hole groups at 7 yds but they were about 2.5 in. to the left. At 25 yds shooting at a B8, I was barely making it on paper. Luckily MattO was there with a sight pusher. We ended up having to drift the rear until it was almost flush with the right side of the slide; just like the rear on my gen 3 G17 that I posted about earlier in the thread. It's hitting POA/POI now though.


http://i800.photobucket.com/albums/yy285/cgcorrea/2012-07-22_16-57-35_52.jpg

SC_Dave
05-20-2017, 09:04 PM
or the slide lock (take down one, not the release) or slide lock spring being the culprit. If you look straight down the barrel from the front I bet you can even see some evidence of it, if not, maybe replace the slide lock parts and see if it helps.

I'm trying to understand this, and I am not an armorer. So help me understand please. What do these parts have to do with Glocks shooting left?

1986s4
05-21-2017, 09:09 AM
Glocks always shoot left of center for me, fortunately there are choices...

HCM
05-21-2017, 01:46 PM
Glocks always shoot left of center for me, fortunately there are choices...

That is true for many individuals due to hand fit and trigger issues. I am one of those who has to shoot a Glock like a Glock and not everything else to preclude this, but once those issues are addressed, there are some Individual Glocks which shoot left / high left.
This has been noted in batches of LE guns being fired by skilled shooters / instructors.


Another weird thing is I've seen some Glocks particularly Gen 4 G17's which shoot high left with certain ammo and dead on with other Ammo. I was just discussing this with an instructor from another agency re: his agency's new SWAT guns. They have some guns where their duty load shoot POA/POI but their practice load consistently hits high left with certain individual guns.

JohnO
05-21-2017, 03:10 PM
To zero the gun I had to move the rear sight way right in the notch. Now it shoots fine. The other Glock 17 I had with me shoots great and the rear sight is centered in the notch.

I have seen this numerous times and very frequently I can look at the gun and tell why in seconds. The front sight is either skewed or off center necessitating rear sight compensation.

HCM
05-21-2017, 03:30 PM
I have seen this numerous times and very frequently I can look at the gun and tell why in seconds. The front sight is either skewed or off center necessitating rear sight compensation.

I've seen front sights "clocked" before, usually along an 11 o'clock / 5 o'clock axis - usually happens when tightening down the front if the tenon does not completely fill the hole. It is certainly a cause, but not the sole cause of guns shooting left.

I've never seen a Glock slide with the front sight hole off center but I suppose it's possible. I'd be curious to see if anyone else has seen that.