Sharpening resources

[backtrail540]

I know absolutely dick about sharpening knives and while i have a friend who does it as a hobby(has a nice belt setup and does my stuff for free), i think I'd rather learn to do it myself.

I was going to just buy a wicked edge and learn on that but it seems like a more valuable skill to know how to both hand sharpen and/or learn the science behind process if i do decide to go with a sharpening system, whether wicked edge or worksharp e.t.c...

I want to start with some reading on the subject. What are some good books to start with? I'm looking for both techniques/how to's as well as technical info such as edge profiles, sharpening materials, intended uses etc...

Just looking for a starting point as far as reading material and I'll work outward from there, eventually getting some hardware to start with. What do you use for resources?

[JHC]

I can't help you with the study. Or the skill. I can only help you cheat like mutha$%&@#r.

https://www.amazon.com/Tri-Angle-Sharpening-Kit-Medium-Fine/dp/B00JHX512S/ref=sr_1_4?crid=391JUTHICAU67&dchild=1&keywords=spyderco+sharpmaker&qid=1586262288&sprefix=spyderco%2Caps%2C425&sr=8-4

Takes NO skill. :D

[backtrail540]

I can't help you with the study. Or the skill. I can only help you cheat like mutha$%&@#r.

https://www.amazon.com/Tri-Angle-Sharpening-Kit-Medium-Fine/dp/B00JHX512S/ref=sr_1_4?crid=391JUTHICAU67&dchild=1&keywords=spyderco+sharpmaker&qid=1586262288&sprefix=spyderco%2Caps%2C425&sr=8-4

Takes NO skill. :D

I will certainly end with a hardware solution, just trying to get some education to go along with it before I dive in:cool: Thanks for the recommendation, it seems like a great value once I get started.

[blues]

Visit this section of bladeforums.com (https://www.bladeforums.com/forums/maintenance-tinkering-embellishment.794/) where every conceivable topic on sharpening is hashed, rehashed and then hashed again. There are some great threads and forum members there who can get you on your way. I also recommend videos these days though I have a shelf full of books on the topic. You will find many links there to instructive videos on how to sharpen.

The simplest useful jig style tool for sharpening is the Spyderco Sharpmaker...and you can move up from there. (You'll need the diamond or CBN rods for something coarser, however.)

I tend to freehand but I still get a lot of use from the Sharpmaker and, more rarely, an Edge Pro Apex.


Full Disclosure: I'm a super moderator on that site, (uncompensated), and have been for 20+ years.

[backtrail540]

Visit this section of bladeforums.com (https://www.bladeforums.com/forums/maintenance-tinkering-embellishment.794/) where every conceivable topic on sharpening is hashed, rehashed and then hashed again. There are some great threads and forum members there who can get you on your way. I also recommend videos these days though I have a shelf full of books on the topic. You will find many links there to instructive videos on how to sharpen.

The simplest useful jig style tool for sharpening is the Spyderco Sharpmaker...and you can move up from there. (You'll need the diamond or CBN rods for something coarser, however.)

I tend to freehand but I still get a lot of use from the Sharpmaker and, more rarely, an Edge Pro Apex.


Full Disclosure: I'm a super moderator on that site, (uncompensated), and have been for 20+ years.

Thank you! Any particular threads you would recommend as a starting point or just the stickies? Seems like a diverse section with a lot to wade through, a seemingly daunting task.

[RJ]

My experience has been as follows:

I attempted to learn to sharpen free hand using a Harbor Freight dual (coarse/fine) stone. It was a disaster. Knives were uneven and not keen. I then added a set of plastic "guide" blocks to rubber band onto the stone. These did not work much better.

In January, I ordered a "Work Sharp" guided field sharpener, $28.99 on Amazon:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B009YKHZ96/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

51461

I have had good luck with this. The multiple diamond surfaces are large enough for small pocket and some kitchen knives. (Benchmade Mini-Grip, Spyerco Dragon Fly 2, paring knives, 4" cutting knives belonging to Mrs. RJ). The unit includes built in guide angles to help keep the blade steady. After a bit of practice, I can produce an edge that will easily slice through copier paper with virtually zero force. There is a coarse and fine diamond surface, a ceramic rod, and a built-in stropping surface already compounded. I do not use any lubricant. It is a really neat tool.

The primary disadvantage with the Work Sharp portable unit is the stability when drawing the knife across. The design of the feet does not let the unit lay "flat" and there is a tendency for it to tip or rock from side to side slightly. It would be better in a vice, but kind of defeats the purpose of portability / compactness.

Full disclosure: I am a knife noob, but am trying to get better.

[LittleLebowski]

Excellent thread, I can get knives sharp enough for daily use, but really can't get a very sharp edge.

[Borderland]

I use one of these.

https://www.benchmade.com/guided-field-sharpener-afe77d28014024825633639e10d0021d.html

I'm not sure why it works so well but I've had good luck with it for smaller knives.

For larger kitchen knives I use a diamond steel. Some people prefer the non diamond steel. Butchers mostly use those.

https://www.knifemerchant.com/product.asp?productID=9062

[blues]

Thank you! Any particular threads you would recommend as a starting point or just the stickies? Seems like a diverse section with a lot to wade through, a seemingly daunting task.

You're very welcome.

This thread should be a good overview with some videos included:

https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/the-seven-secrets-of-sharpening-redux.1628756/

Here are some links to videos / sites that may prove helpful (in no particular order):

https://www.youtube.com/user/stefanwolf88/videos

https://www.youtube.com/user/MrEdgy81/videos


https://youtu.be/-MHe_8wTHmg


https://youtu.be/Kc1bdN2ELSs


https://youtu.be/OPGGo3W15HQ


https://youtu.be/DI8lTj-F8gA

[Maple Syrup Actual]

I'm fairly convinced that the reason people struggle to sharpen knives really well is that they are misapprehending the problem.

I have sharpened a zillion knives and my dad was obsessed with this when I was a kid and I inherited the fixation so I sharpen everybody's knives for them if they're coming by. I can't remember if I ever posted the pictures of me shaving my face with an axe but I did that, years ago, just to make the point that you could really take anything to literal razor sharpness. I then used that axe for limbing a tree with no adjustments to the edge or anything. Having it razor sharp didn't weaken it, because the sharpness is not the result of thinness. I keep all my axes razor sharp now, because the job they do is basically that of a big, self-hammering chisel.

Sharpening knives is one thing: making sure the sharpened surface is an even width, smooth, flat surface, with a corresponding one on the other side.

Technically I will allow that "smooth" is not strictly speaking necessary - some duties are better performed with a saw-like edge so kitchen knives I leave a little toothy.

But to think about a sharp edge, imagine a perfectly machined cube of aluminum, cut to square down to a billionth of a baby corn, or whatever unit the imperial system uses to measure small things. Every edge on that thing would be sharp as hell. If you rapped your knuckles on it, it would cut the hell out of them. I know this because I once broke a bolt loose inside a transmission and rammed my knuckles into the moderately-well machined hydraulic channels inside the thing and wow, blood everywhere. If they'd been machined on both surfaces down to a microscopic level I'd have no fingers. And that was a ninety-degree edge, much more obtuse than any knife.

Anyway this is just to illustrate the concept that all you are trying to do is leave both sides of the edge with a perfectly machined surface, down to a microscopic level. That's why the guides make it easy: it's hard to end up with anything but a smooth, even surface if the angles are controlled by a simple machine.

If you want to do it manually, the easiest way to get your head around this is to colour the surface you are going to sharpen with a marker so you can see what metal is coming off really easily. Then it's just a matter of paying attention to what area needs to be lowered to get that smooth, flat surface on side A, before you flip it over and get a smooth, flat surface on side B.

I think it's the scale that messes with people's heads, so I sometimes tell people to think of it like this: imagine you had a big berm of dirt that was piled up in a long windrow by dump trucks. That's your factory edge from a lot of companies, they dumped it in a perfect line but the surfaces haven't really been smoothed. A better company will have driven some kind of grader along each side and flattened the surfaces down so it approximates a triangle in cross-section.

So that's all you're going to do, you're just going to go along and grade those surfaces until at any point along the berm, you could take a cross-section and it's going to be a perfectly identical triangle to any other cross-section. If the surfaces of the berm are graded to 1 foot, the top edge will be chunky and dull. If they're graded to 1 inch, it's going to look like a knife. If they're graded to 1/1000 of an inch and somehow soaked with epoxy or whatever so they're hardened into that shape, if you fall on the top of that berm it will cut you in half. Grading it smoother and smoother on each surface turns it into a knife.



I realize this is not really technical instruction, but it's the piece that I think is missing for most people. They sort of see knife sharpening as an art, but it's really just a simple procedure. Applying marker to the surface and checking repeatedly to see what area you're working is usually a pretty good light-switch-flipper for people. I think they often overestimate how much metal is coming off, or they don't have the feel built up in their hands to know what part of it is being worked. But once you can see, easily, what area is getting worked, and you think in terms of grading the berm, it's actually a pretty easy process.

[critter]

Unless I want to change the bevel on a knife, or an edge gets dinged from hard use, I rarely ever need to touch a stone. I found the key to hair splitting upper echelon sharpness is a good strop and using it regularly to maintain a highly polished edge.

Since your buddy puts a good edge on your knives, I'd suggesting beginning with and mastering the strop and then work backward to the stones -- and then with the stones begin with the super fine grit and then strop. The object is to master hair popping sharpness on blades which already have a good edge so you get used to the angles, etc., before moving over to serious metal moving/removing surfaces.

There are many ways to skin the cat so to speak.

[Navin Johnson]

What is sharp to YOU? It is not likely the same to me.

What steel(s) will you be using?

Sharp maker and a coarse 3-400 grit bench stone is a great start. No need for Sharp maker ultra-fines BTW. Keep your SM rods CLEAN. And break them in properly. Stay off the corners till you understand.

Understand blade angles, bevels, and micro-bevels.....The edge needs to be sharpened. If the shoulders get in the way then you must re-profile.

Understand what a "burr" is and how to deal with it. If you over sharpen you will likely end up with a burr.

Do you prefer a toothy edge? If so then the brown SM rods are as fine as you need. I only use each side twice before I clean them.

Stropping in my experience gives you a fine WEAK edge (and that may be adequate for you) It's that "burr or wire edge" thing again.

When you sharpen you MUST REMOVE the old weak metal at the edge to get a good durable edge.

Buy a midrange steel (S30V for a folder) and practice. Many softer steels will actually be just as frustrating as harder ones to learn on.

NO power equipment until you know what you are doing.

If you can't get a knife sharp you are likely not sharpening the edge. If it won't hold an edge it's likely that you sharpened the old weak metal.

The "Sharpie trick" is your friend.

I can sharpen a S30V folder to my liking in 3-5 minutes.

You don't need books and links you just need google (yes Blade Forums is excellent)

[45dotACP]

I used to be really bad at sharpening freehand

Now I'm just pretty bad at it, but I strop my knives after sharpening them and they are sharp enough to take hair off.

I mostly have a few old knives that I got for cheap that I don't mind ruining or almost ruining in my pursuit of being better at sharpening and that's why my old Schrade lock back knife is probably sharper than my other knives.

If I have anything productive to add it would probably be that you kind of have to sense what angle works best and then try really hard to keep the knife edge at that angle while sharpening. Not helpful I know...but that's why I've got practice knives

I use stones I bought off Amazon...I wanna say an 800/1000grit combo and then a 1000/6000 grit.

The coarse grits are for really dull blades and the finer grits are just to get them sharper

My three kitchen knives get the most sharpening done to them just because I use them the most.

Sent from my moto g(6) using Tapatalk

[StraitR]

Spyderco Tri-Angle Sharpmaker (https://www.amazon.com/Spyderco-Tri-Angle-Sharpmaker-Sharpener-204MF/dp/B000Q9C4AE) is cheat mode. If you only want one foolproof sharpening system, I believe this is it. Added bonus, in the world of quality knife sharpening systems, it's cheap. I use Dawn dish soap on the stones when they get too loaded up (they get dark). You can sharpen anything with it.

Get a strop, a good one, and some compounds to go with it. If you use your knife daily, try to use the strop daily (5-10 alternating passes a side should do it), and you'll rarely need to break out the Sharpmaker. Bark RIver Knives make excellent compounds and I've had good experience with Flexx Strops products. If you have a local leather or saddle shop, they often have some scraps left over for cheap. You can make your own with some wood and spray adhesive. If away from home, you can strop your knife on just about anything. I often use cardboard, the bottom of a coffee cup, and the top edge of one of the windows in my truck.

IMO, the key to a having and keeping a sharp knife is knowing when to use your knife and when to use something other than your knife.

[GearFondler]

If you're willing to spend the coin the Wicked Edge system (https://www.amazon.com/Wicked-Edge-Pro-Pack-Knife-Sharpener/dp/B06WVL25DF) is absolutely stellar... Anyone can easily learn to use it and get professional results.
If you collect and use $600 knives it only makes sense to drop similar dollars on a quality maintenance system to keep them as sharp (or sharper) as the day you bought them.
It's also the easiest way to alter bevels if you aren't happy with what your knife currently sports.
And if you use it correctly it's fairly dummy-proof... No fear of scraping up the blade or rounding off the tip.

[olstyn]

Like anything else, probably the quickest way to learn is to start doing. I'm definitely a novice, but a while back, I watched a bunch of videos, agonized over choices, and bought a 1000/3000 grit water stone. I then got after an old paring knife which had gotten very dull. It just required patience and attention to detail and that knife was cutting well again. I can't say it's perfect (I think I could have done a better job on the tip area), but it gets used regularly, and I haven't had to touch it with a stone since, so I must have done an ok job.

After that confidence builder with a knife I didn't really care about, I also sharpened my Kershaw Leek, with similar results, except that the edge is a lot closer to "polished" than it came from the factory, thanks to the 3000 grit stone. I feel pretty confident that I can sharpen knives adequately now, as long as I go slowly and carefully. I think I'd like to eventually get a coarser stone, as that first sharpening of the very dull kitchen knife took a long time when starting with a 1000 grit stone. I think maybe a 400 or 600 grit would have been more appropriate to that task, but on the other hand, the speed at which I could do damage with a 1000 grit if was much lower than if I'd been using something coarser, so maybe that was a good thing in the end.

Ultimately, I think that it's something anyone who is willing to put in a small amount of effort can learn to at least be competent at.

[Isaac]

I like the spyderco sharpmaker. And the atoma diamond plate (https://www.amazon.com/Atoma-Diamond-Sharpener-Fine-600/dp/B00BN32JJ8) for free hand. Learned w practices and YouTube vids.

[critter]

Visit this section of bladeforums.com (https://www.bladeforums.com/forums/maintenance-tinkering-embellishment.794/) where every conceivable topic on sharpening is hashed, rehashed and then hashed again. There are some great threads and forum members there who can get you on your way. I also recommend videos these days though I have a shelf full of books on the topic. You will find many links there to instructive videos on how to sharpen.



I've been reading that forum for the past few days. That is truly an excellent source of blade related information... Though there's one Mod who is questionable for sure... :cool::cool:

[backtrail540]

I appreciate the feedback, opinions, and comments. Working my way through the threads and videos slowly. I'm sure I'll be buying some equipment soon as well.

[beenalongtime]

FYI, you will want to delete this thread when people know you can sharpen well. I ended up doing a friends restaurant knives.

[blues]

FYI, you will want to delete this thread when people know you can sharpen well. I ended up doing a friends restaurant knives.

I don't mind sharpening knives for folks...but when my buddy brought a bag over...I did 'em but told him afterward to bring a couple at a time so we can sit and have a beer, (and maybe a cigar), while I did 'em.

[SeriousStudent]

I don't mind sharpening knives for folks...but when my buddy brought a bag over...I did 'em but told him afterward to bring a couple at a time so we can sit and have a beer, (and maybe a cigar), while I did 'em.

And tacos. I always insist on tacos.

[backtrail540]

That's where the buddy comes in. He already does it, so I'll direct all work i don't want to him :cool:

[mrozowjj]

A few people in this post said a good strop can do a lot to help without needing to sharpen... what should I look for in a good strop?

[Clusterfrack]

A few people in this post said a good strop can do a lot to help without needing to sharpen... what should I look for in a good strop?

I use a cheapass one:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B078SR9XM8/

[critter]

A few people in this post said a good strop can do a lot to help without needing to sharpen... what should I look for in a good strop?

cheapass works! or pretty much anything from Stropman Strops (https://stropman.com/Strops_c2.htm) (no affiliation but made in USA) is good, or you can make your own from an old belt or piece of scrap leather and a table top or glue it to a piece of scrap wood. I've heard and read arguments ad nauseum. What seems to be the case is that for most uses the piece of leather is a vehicle for compound (cheaper) or emulsion (can be ridiculously expensive) and the latter (what goes ON the strop) are more important than the former. The good news is that it all works. For compounds, I use Bark River green often then followed by white or just the white. You can also use a stop with no compound but I rarely do.
For common Bark River compound grit equivalents:

black (3,000 grit)
green (6,000 grit)
white (12,000 grit)

Never mix compounds on the same strop. the 'green' strop (or side if doublesided) will forever and always contain nothing but green compound from brand name X and so on. AND mark what they are on the handle or.. white and green become blackish with use so they all begin to look the same.

tip.. A big square pencil eraser works pretty good for quickly 'cleaning' a strop when that time comes.
You can't go by color alone across vendors - any color can be any 'grit' from various sources.